Snakes vs Spiders

Summary

Podcast Summary: Smash Boom Best – "Snakes vs Spiders" (July 11, 2019)

Episode Overview

In this lively and family-friendly debate from Smash Boom Best, host Molly Bloom invites two expert debaters—science reporter and self-proclaimed snake lover Anna Rothschild, and comedian/spider enthusiast Jenny Yang—to face off in a hilarious and fact-filled showdown: Which is cooler, snakes or spiders? Guest judge Harriet, an experienced young debater, listens and awards points for argument strength, creativity, and wit across several rounds, culminating in a sudden-death tie-breaker. Listeners are encouraged to vote for their side at home.

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Main Segments & Key Points

1. Introductions & Judge Profile (00:00–04:48)

• Host Molly Bloom sets up the classic showdown of legless vs. eight-legged creatures.
• Judge Harriet introduces herself as a seasoned debater, explaining how she looks for strong, substantive points and arguments that not only build up but also challenge the opponent’s side.
  • Quote – Harriet (01:42): "You have to prove why the other side is absolutely destructive."
• Snakes and Spiders: Initial opinions are lighthearted, with some panelists finding snakes less troubling, others enamored with spider venom powers.

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2. Declaration of Greatness

Round 1: Snakes (Anna Rothschild) (05:06–10:51)

• Cultural Reverence: Snakes have symbolized everything from power and fertility to protection and healing across multiple civilizations.
  • Quote – Anna (05:52): “For cultures all over the world, snakes have held deep symbolism...power, fertility, rebirth, protection, and healing.”
• Powerful Predators: Snakes’ hunting prowess—eating prey larger than themselves, even humans (very rarely!), and handling entire crocodiles.
  • Quote – Snake Character (07:04): "True story. I once ate a whole crocodile...Took me 10 days to digest that meal."
• Variety and Beauty: The "Hiss Universe" pageant highlights the incredible diversity of snakes (e.g., rainbow boa, green anaconda, tiny Barbados thread snake).
• Versatility and Innovation: Snakes’ unique movement inspires robotics; their predatory habits help control rodents, thus supporting agriculture.
• Patriotism: Benjamin Franklin once advocated for the rattlesnake as a symbol of the US.

Harriet’s Impressions:

• Loved the balance of danger and helpfulness.
• Quote – Harriet (10:57): “They can be incredibly dangerous. But incredibly helpful.”

Rebuttal – Jenny Yang (11:22)

• Points out that some spiders can kill snakes and questions whether snakes can do some of the more fantastic things spiders do.

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Round 2: Spiders (Jenny Yang) (12:10–17:05)

• Superpowers: Spiders are models for superheroes (Spider-Man) and have a plethora of tricks: walking upside-down, shooting silk, "spidey senses."
• Bizarre Abilities: Spiders taste through their feet/fingers and display wild diversity (from the loaf-sized Goliath to pencil-tip Patu marplessi).
• Diversity and Dance: Spiders have species with unbeatable names and moves—happy face spider, peacock spiders (like "Sparkle Muffin") who attract mates through beatboxing moves.
  • Quote – Jenny Yang (13:01): "Spiders can beatbox. Okay, well, not beatbox with their mouths like humans, but their legs shake and their bodies buzz."
• Mythbusting: Spiders almost never kill humans; most are non-aggressive and important for ecosystems.
• Ballooning: Some spiders travel vast distances—across oceans—by ballooning on silk, riding wind and electricity.
  • Quote – Jenny Yang (15:47): “Spiders can basically fly without wings...They can literally surf sky electricity.”
• Unsung Heroes: Spiders are essential natural exterminators—without them, human crops would be devastated and humans would starve.

Harriet’s Reaction:

• Impressed by the superhero argument and the essential ecological role.
• Quote – Harriet (17:12): "Spiders are so amazing they're worthy of their own superhero. And I don't see a snake man anytime soon."

Rebuttal – Anna Rothschild (17:29)

• Counters with points on snake charmers, snake fashion, and snakes’ highly advanced sense of smell via their forked tongues.

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3. Micro Round: "Be My Roommate" (22:49–26:35)

Debaters create roommate ads for their creatures.

• Jenny/Spider: Paints spiders as quiet, tidy, responsible for pest control; assures that spider babies leave immediately and that housemates will hardly notice their presence—unless the roommate is a meal-ready husband.
  • Quote – Jenny (24:29): "My hubby already came by for honeymoon visit and luckily he wasn't too small and weak or else I would have eaten him. Lol."
• Anna/Snake: An expressive, musically inclined rattlesnake looking for a roommate; warns that being smaller than the snake is risky (hangry moments!). Highlights the perks of pest control and a warm house.

Judge’s Reaction (Harriet)

• Spider roommate is "way better than I thought living with a spider could ever be."
• Snake roommate "definitely" sounded cool, especially for non-small animals.

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4. Sneak Attack: Species List-Off (26:56–28:40)

Anna and Jenny alternate naming real and fictional snake/spider species or types. Jenny includes silly/extrapolated answers (e.g., "The one in the corner of my bedroom").

Harriet finds this round especially fun and awards a point without revealing the choice.

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5. Final Six (29:03–29:26)

Each debater gives a six-word summary of why their creature is best.

• Jenny/Spider: “Spiders. Helpful. Don’t be a snake.”
• Anna/Snake: “Who needs legs? Not these guys.”

Outcome: It’s a tie, 2–2, forcing sudden death.

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6. Sudden Death: Critter Cardio (29:49–32:38)

Each finalist leads a workout as their creature.

• Anna/Snake: Guides listeners in stretching jaws wide, undulating their bodies, and squeezing like snakes constricting prey—"That's how you eat a crocodile whole."
• Jenny/Spider: Energetic spider-themed dance, moving legs in all directions, crawling up a wall, and shooting web silk like Spider-Man.
  • Quote – Jenny (31:41): “If you have more than one leg on either side, just eight-step, eight-step!”
  • Quote – Jenny (32:33): “Now, against the wall everyone...Now hug the wall. Pretend you're a spider.”

Harriet declares Spiders the winner!

• Quote – Harriet (32:59): "And the winner is... Spiders."
• Jenny responds with delight; Anna takes defeat with humor and grace.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Anna (on snake digestion, 07:04): "True story. I once ate a whole crocodile. Do you know any spiders out there that can do that?"
• Jenny (on spiders’ diversity, 13:30): "There are nearly 40,000 different spider species...Some species jump like a kangaroo or scurry super fast like a leopard."
• Harriet (on superhero argument, 17:12): "Spiders are so amazing they're worthy of their own superhero."
• Jenny (on spider ballooning, 15:47): "Spiders can literally surf sky electricity."
• Anna (on snake senses, 17:46): "Snakes can smell through their tongues...based on which prong has more chemicals...they know exactly where their prey is."
• Jenny (Critter Cardio, 31:41): "Now, against the wall, everyone...Now hug the wall. Pretend you're a spider."
• Harriet (declaring winner, 32:59): "And the winner is... Spiders."

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Introduction & Judge’s Criteria: 00:00–04:48
• Snake Declaration of Greatness: 05:06–10:51
• Spider Declaration of Greatness: 12:10–17:05
• First Rebuttal (Snakes): 11:22; (Spiders): 17:29
• Micro Round (Roommate Ads): 22:49–26:35
• Sneak Attack (Species List-Off): 26:56–28:40
• Final Six Words: 29:03–29:26
• Sudden Death Workout: 29:49–32:38
• Winner Announced: 32:50–33:21

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Tone & Atmosphere

The episode is high-energy, educational, and very funny—packed with puns, playful banter, and clever use of creative challenges. The debate is accessible to kids but packed with fascinating scientific facts and quirky trivia that engages all ages. The judge brings a fair and thoughtful perspective, and both debaters excel at blending humor and information.

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Conclusion

Spiders triumph in a close, entertaining match. The debate highlights the importance of celebrating both misunderstood creatures for their unique powers and ecological value, reminding listeners that witty arguments, teamwork, and a curious mind are always smash boom best.

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For more debates or to cast your vote, visit: smashboom.org.

Listener challenge: Who do you think is cooler—snakes or spiders?

Transcript

[Jenny Yang]

From the brains behind brains on, it's.

[Anna Rothschild]

Smash Boom Best, the show for people.

[Harriet]

With big opinions, I'm Molly Bloom and.

[Host]

This is Smash Boom Best, the show where we take two things, smash them together, and ask you to decide which one is best. Two creatures have slithered and crawled into the studio today. They're both known for giving humans the heebie jeebies. One has no legs, the other has eight. That's right, it's snakes versus spiders.

[Anna Rothschild]

The cooler one would probably be snakes because. Because it's so funny how they just kinda just slither around. Snakes are cool. They can unhinge their jaw. Like that's just dope. A snake would definitely eat the spider.

[Harriet]

Snakes are better because they don't have legs. Legs freak me out, dude.

[Anna Rothschild]

But if the spider was venomous, then they would both die because the snake would also eat its venom sac.

[Host]

So which one is cooler? Creepy crawly spiders or slithering scaly snakes? Our judge for today's episode, Harriet, is here to help us decide. Hi, Harriet.

[Harriet]

Hey, how are you?

[Host]

I'm great, thank you for being here. So Harriet, I hear you're an experienced debater and judge. Can you tell us a little about that?

[Harriet]

Yeah, I've been debating for the past four years. I'm only in ninth grade, but I've helped coach for Somali debate league at my old middle school and I've judged tons of rounds for middle schoolers. So I'm really excited to be here today.

[Host]

So when you're judging a debate, what kind of things are you looking for? How do you do it?

[Harriet]

Well, what I normally look for is not only incredibly strong points, but also points that bring down the other side.

[Host]

So it's not just positive things. You also have to maybe poke holes in the other person's argument as well.

[Jenny Yang]

Uh huh.

[Harriet]

You have to prove why the other side is absolutely destructive.

[Host]

Wow. So do you already have an opinion about which is cooler, snakes or spiders?

[Harriet]

Well, at the front desk they asked me what what would I prefer waking up to. A snake on my bed or a spider?

[Host]

Ooh.

[Harriet]

And I think a snake would be less troubling.

[Host]

I am fascinated by the fact that you find a snake less troubling, but we'll get into that.

[Anna Rothschild]

It's eight feet long.

[Harriet]

It shouldn't be that hard to catch.

[Host]

Oh, I see, so you're saying like, you could get rid of that easier than a tiny little spider.

[Harriet]

Yeah, you might push a snake down the toilet or bring it outside easily.

[Host]

Very true, very true. Well, we're gonna learn a lot about Both today. So let's introduce debaters. Please welcome snake lover, science reporter for the Washington Post, and host of Anna's science magic show. Hooray. Anna Rothschild. Hi, Anna.

[Anna Rothschild]

Hello. I am so happy to be here. I have been a snake lover for many, many years. In fact, I wrote a short book on snakes when I was in the sixth grade.

[Host]

Do you remember the title of the book?

[Anna Rothschild]

I think it was just called Snakes.

[Host]

Very descriptive. Anna, in one sentence, why are snakes cooler than spiders?

[Anna Rothschild]

Well, they're beautiful and they can do more with no legs than spiders can do with eight legs.

[Host]

All right, and now for our arachnid, adoring comedy writer and performer, Jenny Yang. Hi, Jenny. Hello. Hello.

[Jenny Yang]

Team Spider is here.

[Host]

Jenny, in one sentence, why are spiders superior to snakes?

[Jenny Yang]

Oh, goodness. Spiders save humans. That's honestly the only reason why you should, like, love spiders forever. Without spiders, we wouldn't have food.

[Host]

Hello. Wow.

[Jenny Yang]

Hello.

[Host]

Well, both excellent points, Harriet. This matchup is going to take all of your judicial ability. Before we jump in, let's do a quick run through of the rounds of debate. First up, we have the Declaration of greatness. Jenny and Anna will deliver a statement filled to the brim with cool science, history and lore about their sides. And they'll each have 30 seconds to poke some holes in each other's arguments. Then we have the micro round, a creative challenge Anna and Jenny have prepared for in advance. They'll try to woo you into thinking their creature is the coolest with comedy and originality. Next, we've got the sneak attack, a surprise prompt Anna and Jenny will have to respond to off the top of their heads. And last but not least, we've got the final six, where each debater will have one last chance to win you over with a six word statement about why their side is the best. Sound good?

[Harriet]

Sounds awesome.

[Host]

And if it's a tie, we have a tiebreaker challenge lined up and ready. All right, everyone, are we ready for this smash boom battle to begin?

[Harriet]

Absolutely. Yes.

[Jenny Yang]

I am nervous, though, because Harriet is a debate expert.

[Harriet]

Don't be nervous. You'll be awesome.

[Host]

I know.

[Anna Rothschild]

It makes me nervous too.

[Host]

Harriet is a fair and compassionate judge.

[Harriet]

Thank you.

[Host]

Well, let's get this zoological debate started. It's time for the declaration of greatness. We've flipped a coin and Anna is up first. All right, let's hear your declaration of greatness for team Snakes.

[Anna Rothschild]

All right, here we go. Africa, Asia, Europe, Australia, the Americas. At some point in history, each of these continents has been home to a civilization that revered snakes. Oh, hey, Mr. Slithers.

[Snake Character]

It's true. I have adorned the headdresses of Egyptian pharaohs and been worshipped by the Aztecs. Even today, I am still revered by some Hindus, Australian Aboriginal people and many others.

[Anna Rothschild]

Exactly. For cultures all over the world, snakes have held deep symbolism. You might guess they'd represent power, and they certainly have. But they've also represented fertility, rebirth, protection and healing.

[Snake Character]

We're very versatile animals.

[Anna Rothschild]

Of course, just because they're widely revered doesn't mean they aren't feared. In some cultures, snakes are seen as tricksters or signs of evil. And, hey, I get that snakes are dangerous, but that's part of their power. So what makes snakes so scary? Well, they are killers. No bones about it. All snakes eat meat or eggs, and they can eat a lot at one time. You think you feel full when you go back for seconds at dinner. Well, some snakes, like the king snake, can eat other snakes that are larger than they are. Pythons can even ingest a whole deer. First, they open their jaws extremely wide and begin to swallow their prey. Then they squeeze and contort their bodies to move their meal down their esophagus and into their stomach. It takes a while, but after a big meal like that, a snake can go days without eating.

[Snake Character]

We do have very hearty appetites, in fact. True story. I once ate a whole crocodile. Do you know any spiders out there that can do that? It was delicious. Took me 10 days to digest that meal.

[Jenny Yang]

Whoa.

[Anna Rothschild]

What did it taste like?

[Snake Character]

Chicken.

[Host]

Huh.

[Anna Rothschild]

Well, how snakes hunt their prey is also pretty gruesome, but fascinating. Some snakes, like pythons, are constrictors. That means they wrap their muscular bodies around their prey and squeeze until they cut off the animal's blood supply. Some constrictors are even large enough to eat humans, which I will admit has happened, though it is extremely rare.

[Snake Character]

We're not looking to eat humans, but if we're really hungry, we'll do it in a pinch. Kind of like when you're on a long road trip and you have to eat at a crummy restaurant just because it's the only thing around.

[Anna Rothschild]

Other snakes are venomous. They bite into an animal and inject toxic chemicals into the wound that cause a whole host of symptoms to subdue their prey. But don't worry. Snakes aren't looking to bite humans. And most will only do so when they're provoked or stepped on. The snake's predatory power is certainly part of its allure, but they are also simply beautiful creatures.

[Snake Character]

We are. And to see the true range of our Beauty. We must visit the Hiss Universe contest.

[Jenny Yang]

The most beautiful snake in the world.

[Snake Show Announcer 1]

We have a great show for you this year, folks.

[Snake Show Announcer 2]

We sure do. We have snakes of every color. Red, green, blue, you name it. In fact, even the rainbow boa is here. She has iridescent scales that make her look like she's covered in, well, rainbows. And our contestants come in a whole range of shapes and sizes.

[Snake Show Announcer 1]

First up, we have the Barbados thread snake. Averaging in at just under 4 inches long, he's the smallest snake in the world. He was only discovered in 2008 and is said to be as thin as a piece of spaghetti. Can he take the title?

[Snake Show Announcer 2]

Oh, look, here's last year's winner, the green anaconda. Our champ can weigh hundreds of pounds and grow over 20ft long.

[Snake Show Announcer 1]

Oh, and there is the famous cobra. When she's threatened, she can flare the ribs and muscles of her neck to form her characteristic hood, making her look larger than she is. What an icon.

[Snake Show Announcer 2]

And now for a quick commercial break before we crown our winner.

[Jenny Yang]

The most beautiful snake in the world.

[Anna Rothschild]

Wow. I can't wait to see who wins. But you know what? Snakes aren't only beautiful, they're also multi talented. They can slither, swim and climb trees.

[Snake Character]

Some snakes can even fly. Well, kinda. Technically, they glide through the air like flying squirrels.

[Anna Rothschild]

Snakes are also good at slinking through desert sand, which is particularly interesting to some scientists and engineers. In 2014, researchers at Georgia Tech, Carnegie Mellon, Oregon State and Zoo Atlanta or worked together to build a snake robot. Why? Well, imagine sending a robot to explore another planet only to have it get stuck in the sand. A snake robot would never let you down like that. But we don't need to look to a far off planet for reasons to love snakes. They're good for the environment too. Snakes eat pests like rats, keeping their numbers in check so they don't destroy farmers, crops or invade our houses. If by now you've decided to be on Team Snake, you're in great company. Benjamin Franklin liked them too. He even wanted to make the rattlesnake a symbol of the United States. Tell him, Ben.

[Host]

I wrote that they are vigilant, courageous and kind. Was I wrong in thinking this a strong picture of the temper and conduct of America?

[Snake Character]

I couldn't agree more. Mr. Franklin.

[Host]

A compelling argument for snakes. Harriet, what stood out for you in Anna's Declaration of Greatness?

[Harriet]

Well, that was incredibly thought out. One of the greater points was the fact that snakes can eat humans. But they would never. And they can be incredibly dangerous. But incredibly Helpful.

[Host]

They contain multitudes. Okay, Jenny, you've got 30 seconds to attack Anna's snaketastic statements, and your time starts now.

[Jenny Yang]

Well, first of all, if you want to talk about powerful and dangerous, you know, spiders actually have been shown to hurt and bite and kill snakes.

[Host]

What?

[Jenny Yang]

Okay, see, that's powerful to me. And then finally, they have multiple talents, including slithering, pretty much swimming, climbing trees. They can, as you will hear, possibly fly across entire oceans and time.

[Anna Rothschild]

Could a spider bring down an impala or an antelope? I don't think so.

[Jenny Yang]

But can a. Can a snake fly across an entire ocean?

[Host]

Oh, man. Okay, well, Jenny, it is your turn to spin a web of facts for us. Let's hear your declaration of greatness for spiders.

[Jenny Yang]

Okay. You think you know spiders, but once I'm through, you will thank me and say, sorry, Jenny, how could I have lived this long without being 100% Team Spider? You're gonna be all like, I am now a spider super fan. I Stan, spiders. Here we go. Spiders are very smart and almost for sure have more tricks than your pet dog. Sebastian, no. Sebastian, stop throwing yourself on the wall. You will never walk upside down. But you know who can walk upside down? Spider Man. There's a reason why spiders are worthy of an entire superhero comic book series and 20 gazillion movies. Just like spiders, spider men can shoot silk and swing across trees and fences, climb upside down right side up, and have supercharged senses of touch and sound, also known as spidey senses. Well, you knew that, but there's so much more. First of all, I don't think you understand exactly how powerful spider skills really are. Did you know spiders can taste like taste through the ends of their legs? This blew my mind. They can taste if something is bitter or sweet. It would be like if we humans could taste through our feet. Our fingers. Our fingers.

[Host]

What?

[Snake Show Announcer 2]

Kids, breakfast. Uh, why are you rubbing your hands.

[Host]

All over your food?

[Snake Show Announcer 1]

Because we're spiders.

[Host]

Mmm.

[Anna Rothschild]

Buttery maple syrup goodness.

[Snake Show Announcer 2]

Uh, okay.

[Jenny Yang]

There are nearly 40,000 different spider species. The world's largest spider, the goliath spider, can grow almost as wide as a loaf of bread. And one of the world's tiniest spiders is the Patu marplessi. They are so teeny Weeny that 10 of them can fit on the tip of a pencil. Hey, stop writing. We're right here. Some species jump like a kangaroo or scurry super fast like a leopard in Hawaii. There's even a spider called the happy face spider. It has a belly that looks like a big Smiley face emoji. Like, seriously, look it up. Which some scientists think they used to confuse their enemies. Like, I'd be totally confused. How can you hurt a happy face emoji that's having such a good time? There's also a spider species called peacock spiders who do the coolest mating dance to the sounds of their own beatboxing. I repeat, spiders can beatbox. Okay, well, not beatbox with their mouths like humans, but their legs shake and their bodies buzz heard. That's the sound of a peacock spider seducing a mate. And these peacock spiders have colorful bellies that fan up and out like they're performing at a dance club. One type of peacock spider is even called Sparkle Muffin and will shake its belly sideways like it's off balance, but still totally control and on beat. DJ Sparkle Muffins. So many spiders with different tricks and with cool names like Sparkle Muffin. Yeah, spiders are basically like Pokemon. Gotta catch them all. Now, maybe you're having trouble embracing Team Spider. Maybe you're all like, jenny, I'm with.

[Host]

You and your amazing spider facts, but.

[Anna Rothschild]

They still scare me.

[Host]

Don't they, like, bite?

[Jenny Yang]

First off, we really shouldn't fear spiders. That kind of arachnophobia is so unnecessary. Why? Because even if the venomous ones bite you, the poison from spider bites rarely kills humans. And the deadliest spiders, like the Black widow, are not aggressive. They would only bite you in self defense. So like, just don't sit on a spider. Okay, back to the cool stuff. This tidbit really got me. Spiders do not have wings, but some of them can travel across entire oceans through the air.

[Host]

What?

[Jenny Yang]

Yes. Spiders can basically fly without wings. But how? Some spiders use a technique called ballooning. They spin silk strands that act like sails on a sailboat to carry them into the air. Scientists think they rely on two forces. Sometimes it's air currents pulling them up and carrying them away. Other times, it appears the silk is picked up by naturally occurring electrostatic fields in our atmosphere. And those carry the spider for miles and miles. Yeah, you heard that right. Spiders can literally surf sky. Electricity.

[Snake Show Announcer 2]

Electricity's up, bro. Radical.

[Jenny Yang]

Now here's the most important and final point that really blew my mind. Spiders are not only super smart and talented, but they are real life superheroes to humans.

[Host]

Why?

[Jenny Yang]

Because the survival of humans actually depends on spiders. Spiders do all the dirty work we humans don't want to do. They're like natural exterminators. They eat up insects that spread disease and sickness. And they would get rid of insects that would eat up our own food crops. Scientists say that without spiders we would literally starve. Who needs Spider man or snakes for that matter, when spiders are the real life superheroes?

[Host]

That was a contagiously exuberant argument for spiders. Harriet, what did you think of Jenny's declaration?

[Harriet]

It was incredible. I would say one of the best points was at the beginning when you said spiders are so amazing they're worthy of their own superhero. And I don't see a snake man anytime soon.

[Jenny Yang]

That's right.

[Anna Rothschild]

What about venom?

[Host]

Well, anna, you've got 30 seconds to strike back at Jenny's arguments and your time starts now.

[Anna Rothschild]

Well, has anyone tried to charm spiders? I don't think so. And people do try to charm snakes. Do people wear spider print clothing? I don't think so. But they do wear snake print clothing. You said they taste through their fingers. Well, snakes can smell through their tongues. They have these sort of bipartite tongues, these two pronged tongues, and they pick up the chemicals in the air and then they touch their tongues to the roof of their mouths and based on which prong has more chemicals on it, they know exactly where their prey is and time.

[Jenny Yang]

Oh my goodness. Tongue smelling versus finger tasting. Come through fingers. That is more wild.

[Host]

Yeah, they're both something that's very interesting and different than what we humans do. Harriet, it is time to award a point. Don't tell us who you're going to give the vote to, but once you've weighed the merits of both arguments, please give a point to either Team Snake or Team Spider. Have you decided?

[Harriet]

Can I give one to both?

[Host]

No, you have to choose one.

[Anna Rothschild]

Be ruthless, Harriet.

[Host]

It's close. It's a close one. I understand this is a very hard decision. Have you decided? Yes. Fabulous listeners at home, we want you to award a point too. If you need more time to make your decision, just press pause. And Remember, head to smashboom.org after the debate to place your vote and see who other listeners thought won. Okay, it's time for our snake charmer and spider whisperer to take a break and refuel with a fly or a rat or whatever snack they choose. So stay tuned because we'll be right.

[Harriet]

Back with more smash Boom.

[Host]

Best. You're watching State of Debate. Home to raging rhetoric and awe inspiring argumentation.

[Taylor Lincoln]

Welcome back debate heads. I'm Taylor Lincoln, here with nine time debate champ, Todd Douglas.

[Todd Douglas]

Just moments ago we witnessed one big old belly flop of a logical fallacy.

[Taylor Lincoln]

Ooh, that's right, Todd. Logical fallacies are common mistakes people make when they're Debating mistakes that weaken your argument.

[Todd Douglas]

Absolutely true, Taylor. But before we dive deeper into this debate debrief, let's review the tape.

[Taylor Lincoln]

We're listening in on a debate at Ghouls R Us, a haunted house in Gainesville, Florida, where two employees disagree on the best way to frighten customers.

[Julia]

Listen, Julia, people come here to confront their deepest, darkest fears. If we can't scare them senseless, they're not getting their money's worth.

[Taylor Lincoln]

Brad, we can scare people just fine without chasing them down with an actual chainsaw. You're gonna traumatize someone or worse, hurt them. Lose the chainsaw.

[Julia]

Oh, okay, so you think we shouldn't bother trying to scare people at all anymore? Might as well close up shop now, because our reviews are gonna be terrible.

[Todd Douglas]

Now, that was an epic logical fallacy, Taylor.

[Taylor Lincoln]

Clear as day. There are many types of logical fallacies. And the one we just heard from Brad is called a straw man argument.

[Todd Douglas]

Yes, siree. A strawman argument is when you exaggerate or misrepresent your opponent's argument in an attempt to make it easier to defeat.

[Taylor Lincoln]

Yeah, let's hear that strawman argument once more.

[Julia]

So you think we shouldn't bother trying to scare people at all anymore? Might as well close up shop now, because our reviews are gonna be terrible.

[Jenny Yang]

Hoo, boy.

[Todd Douglas]

Brad blew Julia's argument way out of proportion.

[Taylor Lincoln]

Indeed he did. Julia never said she wanted a Stop scaring customers. She was just arguing that a real chainsaw is not the best idea.

[Todd Douglas]

It really isn't. Let's see how the strategy plays out for Brad when Ghouls R Us manager Shelby steps in.

[Jenny Yang]

What's all the ruckus back here? I need you two to take over.

[Host]

The cadaver room while the other zombies take their lunch.

[Julia]

Well, Julia over here thinks we shouldn't scare people anymore. Just hold their hand and tell them soothing stories and fetch them some chamomile tea.

[Taylor Lincoln]

I never said we should stop scaring people. I'm merely proposing Brad ditches the chainsaw chain.

[Host]

What?

[Jenny Yang]

Give me that cheese.

[Host]

Brad.

[Jenny Yang]

Don't blow things out of proportion.

[Host]

We can scare people without power tools.

[Todd Douglas]

Ooh, that's gotta hurt.

[Taylor Lincoln]

Ugh. Lessen to us all logical fallacies don't pay. So keep an eye out for strawman arguments in the wild, and we'll see.

[Todd Douglas]

You next time on Stay of Debate.

[Jenny Yang]

Boom, boom, boom boom boom boom boom, boom, boom. Smash Boom Best.

[Host]

And we're back with Smash Boom Best, the show about showdowns. We love it when our listeners send us debate suggestions. So we were really excited to get Svea's suggestion from Seattle, Washington.

[Anna Rothschild]

My debate idea is Jokes versus Songs.

[Host]

Ooh, which side are you on? Check in with Svea at the end of the debate to hear her opinion. And Remember, head to smashboom.org and send us your debate ideas too. All right, without further ado, let's get back to our smashboom Battle of the.

[Harriet]

Day Snakes versus Spiders.

[Host]

Our silk spinning sphinx and serpentine schemer are back for their next round of debate, the Micro round. And our Micro round challenge today is Be My Roommate. We've asked Jenny and Anna to imagine what a spider and a snake might be be looking for in a roommate and to write up a listing about it. Anna went first last time, so our resident spider expert Jenny is up first. Jenny, what is the spider side of your identity looking for in a roommate?

[Jenny Yang]

Quiet and tidy house spiders seeking similarly considerate roommate to share web building chores and food trapping responsibilities. Started a 6 inch web by the corner of the living room door that is in my humble opinion, a geometric and architectural marvel. And yes, I said marvel. Huge fan of spider girl looking for a roomie who can also spin some sick silk. Landlord is very understanding and will leave us alone because we'll be capturing house flies, mosquitoes, gnats and wasps for food and humans hate bugs more for us. I hang out on the web basically all day but you will never notice me. Super good at tippy toeing on all eight legs. Also I have really slow metabolism and don't need to hunt for food every day so I could be the chillest roomie and not move until we catch us some dinner vibrations. My hubby already came by for honeymoon visit and luckily he wasn't too small and weak or else I would have eaten him. Lol. But thankfully he already left. I am pregnant and laid a thousand eggs in my silk sacks. But those kiddos will leave home immediately after they're born so don't worry. I love my privacy. Hope you do too. DM me and let's weave our very own world wide web.

[Host]

That is one compelling listing. Harriet, any thoughts about Jenny's roommate listing?

[Harriet]

Way better than I thought living with a spider could ever be.

[Host]

It's a pretty good sell.

[Jenny Yang]

That's right.

[Host]

All right Anna, what is your snake alter ego looking for in a roomie rattlesnake?

[Anna Rothschild]

Looking for a friend to share my space. My house has everything because I have some so many different interests. I like hiding under rocks, slithering through the underbrush, climbing trees and swimming a little bit about me. I'm 7ft long, have no arms or legs. And I'm something of a musician after all. I have a built in instrument on my tail. It might sound like a maraca, but it's actually interlocking scales that make noise when I shake them. I usually use my rattle to warn off predators, but hey, it makes a great addition to a drum circle too. This house has been in my family for over 100 years. Generations of my relatives have hibernated here. I'll only go into hibernation if the temperature gets too cold though, so I like to keep the thermostat pretty high. Hopefully you don't mind. I tend to keep to myself, but I can have a bit of a temper. That said, I will usually warn you before lashing out. Just stay out of my stuff, okay? Eight legs, six legs, four legs, two legs, no legs. All are welcome though. Whoever you are, make sure you're a lot bigger than I am. When I get hangry, I can open my mouth close to 180 degrees to eat even moderately sized roommates. This has been a problem in the past. Hope to meet you soon.

[Host]

Excellent work, team Snake.

[Harriet]

Excellent.

[Host]

Harriet, any thoughts? Did Anna make it sound like living with a snake would be pretty cool?

[Harriet]

Oh, definitely.

[Jenny Yang]

If you want to be eaten, make your call, Harriet.

[Anna Rothschild]

But hey, they'll eat the mice and rats too, so there's that.

[Host]

So both roommates provide excellent pest control. Harriet, now is the moment to make your decision about who is gonna get a point for this micro round. It's a tough one.

[Harriet]

It is. And it's been done.

[Host]

Mm. She is done. She has marked the point.

[Jenny Yang]

I am tingling with anticipation. I'm so nervous.

[Harriet]

Me too.

[Host]

Well, it is time for our surprise round. The sneak attack. Anna and Jenny have no idea what's next. Are you ready, guys? No.

[Anna Rothschild]

Yeah, I'm terrified.

[Snake Show Announcer 1]

But let's do it.

[Host]

Well, your sneak attack is. 3, 2, 1. List off. In this challenge, Anna and Jenny are going to go back and forth listing off different species of snakes and spiders until one of them runs out of ideas. So if I was team ice cream and Harriet was team candy, it'd go something like this. Vanilla Milk Duds, mint chocolate chip, Sour.

[Harriet]

Patch Kids, rocky road M&MS, and so.

[Host]

On and so forth until one of us can't think of another ice cream or candy in Harriet. You can use any criteria you want to judge this battle. If the person who runs out of ideas first still had funnier examples, you can give them the point. Got it.

[Harriet]

Totally.

[Host]

Okay. Jenny went first in our last Round. So, Anna, you'll kick it off. On your mark, get set, go.

[Anna Rothschild]

Cobra.

[Jenny Yang]

Goliath.

[Anna Rothschild]

Viper.

[Jenny Yang]

Patu marplesi.

[Anna Rothschild]

Python.

[Jenny Yang]

Tarantula.

[Anna Rothschild]

Anaconda.

[Jenny Yang]

The one from Charlotte's Web.

[Anna Rothschild]

Corn snake.

[Jenny Yang]

The one that's in the corner of my bedroom all the time.

[Host]

I think this game might be peacock spider.

[Jenny Yang]

Wait, I need a sparkle muffin. Hawaiian happy face. 1.

[Host]

I think we're gonna call it. I think that's it. Harriet, have you awarded a point?

[Harriet]

I have. It was a close call. Favorite round so far.

[Host]

Excellent. All right. Brilliant. It's time for our last round of debate, the final six. Jenny and Anna, you each have six final words to make your case. Make it count. Jenny, you're up first.

[Jenny Yang]

Spiders. Helpful. Don't be a snake.

[Host]

Okay. Anna.

[Anna Rothschild]

Who needs legs? Not these guys.

[Host]

Oh, man. Their statements have been made. Harriet, it is time to award the final point. Have you decided?

[Harriet]

Yes, and I think it is then necessary that we do sudden death.

[Anna Rothschild]

Oh.

[Jenny Yang]

What?

[Anna Rothschild]

What is that?

[Host]

So you've tallied up the points and it's a tie, two to two.

[Jenny Yang]

Yeah.

[Host]

What? Oh, my goodness.

[Harriet]

But it's been what's happening, so don't lose motivation.

[Jenny Yang]

Okay?

[Host]

All right. It all comes down to this.

[Anna Rothschild]

Sudden death.

[Host]

Your sudden death challenge is critter cardio. Pretend to be a snake or spider and narrate a funky fresh dance workout. Tell us why humans should try it, too. We'll give you a second to think about it while we play some music.

[Anna Rothschild]

Sneaky snake strangled bite. Shedding skin. Out of sight, slither, swim and hiss as they roam. Spiders walk with eight legs.

[Jenny Yang]

Arachnids.

[Todd Douglas]

Yes.

[Anna Rothschild]

They lay eggs. They weave silky, strong and sticky webs.

[Host]

Okay, Jenny and Anna, are you ready with your Jane Fonda moments?

[Anna Rothschild]

Yes, as ready as I'll ever be.

[Host]

All right, Anna, you're up first. Let's hear it.

[Anna Rothschild]

All right, team, here we go. First, open your mouth. Super W. Looking good, everyone. Now squeeze and bend your body like an accordion. Great job. Next, undulate your body in alluring waves. That's how you do it. And that's how you eat a crocodile whole.

[Harriet]

How was that?

[Host]

Excellent work. A very useful workout.

[Anna Rothschild]

That's the only workout I've ever led in my entire life.

[Host]

We could all use that in our daily lives.

[Anna Rothschild]

It's good because you work out, but then you get a huge meal at the end.

[Host]

Yeah, that's what I want to do after I work out anyway, so it's perfect. All right, Jenny, here we go. It is your turn. Let's hear it.

[Jenny Yang]

All right, Happy humans. It's Serena the spider. Are you ready to work out? Let's do this.

[Host]

Yes.

[Jenny Yang]

And just a quick two step. Two step.

[Host]

Now.

[Jenny Yang]

Two step. Yeah. If you have more than one leg on either side, just eight step. Eight step. Eight, eight step. Eight. Eight step. Yes.

[Host]

Now left.

[Jenny Yang]

Left leg up. Left leg up, and right leg up. Now you're gonna keep doing this until you feel like you have four legs on each side. That's right. Let's do this. Now, against the wall, everyone. Get to the wall. Yeah, yeah. Get to the wall. Okay, okay, now, now, now, now hug the wall. Pretend you're a spider. Now hug the wall. Pretend you're a spider. Pretend you're crawling up now. Okay, back to your places. Okay, here we go. Pretend you got silk coming out of your hands. Silk coming out of your hands. And shoot them. Shoot, shoot em. Left, shoot, shoot em. And right. Shoot, shoot em. Now we are spider man and women. Yes. Thank you very much. Thank you, everyone. Don't you feel fit already?

[Host]

I do feel fit. I want to hug a wall. That sounds pleasant.

[Jenny Yang]

It hugs you back.

[Host]

Aw, Harriet. Now is the moment. It all comes down to this workout challenge. Who gets the final point and wins this smash boom battle?

[Harriet]

I think I've made a decision. Can I get a drum roll? And the winner is. Spiders.

[Host]

Whoa.

[Jenny Yang]

Oh, no. Oh, my God.

[Anna Rothschild]

Oh, this is a travesty. I demand a recount.

[Host]

I am so happy.

[Jenny Yang]

I am like, I'm crying. I am crying. This makes up for all the awkward high school moments where I didn't please my fellow adolescent friends.

[Anna Rothschild]

Thank you, Harriet. My favorite fact about spiders that I didn't realize was that they can get blown across the entire ocean. That is really remarkable and pretty amazing.

[Jenny Yang]

Oh, I didn't know that, like, snakes lived in homes for multiple generations.

[Anna Rothschild]

Yeah, isn't that crazy? I learned that for the first time, too. I don't know that all snakes do, but rattlesnakes definitely do.

[Jenny Yang]

That's commitment to an area code. You know what I mean? That's like, real commitment.

[Anna Rothschild]

Totally.

[Host]

Harriet thinks spiders won, but what about you? Head to smashboom.org and vote.

[Harriet]

And you can see what the rest.

[Anna Rothschild]

Of our listeners think too.

[Host]

And that's it for snakes versus spiders. Smashboom Best is a creation of the people at Brains on and American Public Media.

[Jenny Yang]

It's produced by Mark Sanchez, Sandon Totten, Molly Bloom, Elissa Dudley, and Rosie Dupont.

[Anna Rothschild]

We had engineering help from Veronica Rodriguez, Sarah Bruguer, and Diana Howell.

[Jenny Yang]

And we had production help from Maneka Wilhelm, Christina Lopez, and Lauren D. Our.

[Host]

Announcer is Marley Feuer, worker Otto. And Brenna Everson is the voice of our whole music. We want to give a special thanks to Justin Koo, Austin Cross, Taylor Kaufman, Sam Chu, Eric Ringham, Christine Wynn, Evan Frost, Josh Holt, Bridget Asamoa, Allison Brodin and Melanie Renee. And finally, we'd like to thank the Minnesota Urban Debate League, a nonprofit program of Augsburg University which believes when kids learn how to have positive, healthy arguments, they are happier, smarter and more powerful. Jenny, is there anyone you want to thank today?

[Jenny Yang]

I want to thank Spiders, Harriet, Anna and everyone.

[Host]

And what about you, Anna?

[Anna Rothschild]

I would like to thank snakes and Jenny and Harriet and everyone at smashboom Best for making this possible.

[Host]

Thank you both for being here. And how about you, Harriet? Do you have any special shout outs?

[Harriet]

I would love to thank my middle school debate coach, Florida Sommers, who is an incredible debater. And I of course, want to thank our fabulous debaters today, Snakes and Spiders, for letting us critique them and my twin sister who is also an incredible debater.

[Host]

Before we go, let's call up Svea. She is the listener who suggested the jokes versus Songs debate.

[Anna Rothschild]

I think jokes would win because you can sing a joke, but you can't tell a song.

[Host]

Who do you think would win? If you have an idea for an epic matchup, head to smashboom.org and tell us all about it. We'll be back soon with another debate battle.

[Harriet]

Peace out.

[Jenny Yang]

Protect spiders at all costs. I must have my avocados.