Introducing Earsay hosted by Ed Helms and Kal Penn

Summary

SNAFU with Ed Helms Presents: Earsay – A Spinal Tap Deep Dive

Episode: Introducing Earsay hosted by Ed Helms and Kal Penn
Release Date: December 8, 2025
Featured Guests: Rob Reiner, Michael McKean

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Episode Overview

This episode of Earsay—a collaborative audiobook club podcast from iHeart and Audible—features a celebration of the 40th anniversary of "This Is Spinal Tap," the iconic rock mockumentary. Hosts Ed Helms and Kal Penn talk with Spinal Tap creators Rob Reiner and Michael McKean, diving deep into the making of the film, the new audiobook and book "A Fine Line Between Stupid and Clever," the improvisational process, and the band's legendary cultural legacy. It's a mix of comedy shop talk, nostalgia, and creative insight into one of comedy's most influential works.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Connections to Spinal Tap

• Ed Helms shares his formative experiences:

  “That movie means so much to me... it's become very much a part of my comedy DNA.” (08:15)

• Kal Penn recalls his college introduction to the film at 2am, underscoring its cult appeal.

2. Spinal Tap as Mockumentary Pioneer

• Spinal Tap’s Influence:
  Ed describes "This Is Spinal Tap" as the original mainstream mockumentary that spawned a vast comedic “ecosystem,” influencing films by Christopher Guest and series like "The Office" and "Parks and Rec." (04:27–05:05)
• The hosts note the “these go to 11” line made it into the Oxford English Dictionary.

3. The Mythos of Spinal Tap

• Ed quizzes Kal on the many Spinal Tap drummers who met ridiculous fates—a signature in-universe joke. (01:45–02:06)
• They highlight the in-universe oral history, "Smell the Book," featured in the new audiobook—a nod to the faux album "Smell the Glove." (06:03–06:14)

4. Improvisation & Creative Process

• On “schnadling”:
  Rob Reiner explains "Schnadling"—a term by Christopher Guest for the organic, riffing process that fueled their improvisational comedy.

  “He referred to the back and forth of improvisation. As you're schnadling with each other, you're just, you know, kind of riffing.” (18:32–18:43)

• Ed marvels at their ability to improvise “with such precision and consistency... it takes a profound cleverness” (12:56–13:13).

5. Affectionate Parody vs. Punching Down

• Rob Reiner emphasizes the movie’s affectionate tone:

  “We love rock and roll… it was a love of the music and also could find what's funny about it too.” (16:18–16:31)

• Michael McKean discusses playing characters who take themselves too seriously, “If you're on the level, that's where the funny comes from…” (13:13–13:35)

6. Dealing with Blowback from Real Rockstars

• Stories of real musicians like Steven Tyler and Ozzy Osbourne feeling “spied on,” but later coming to appreciate the film’s humor (14:53–15:18).

  “It was like, too close, too close, too close. And he would smile a little bit, but mainly it was like, this hurts.” –Michael McKean (15:06)

7. Favorite Scenes and Memorable Moments

• Rob Reiner’s favorite: The “fine line between stupid and clever” scene (09:54–11:38)—the thematic core and title of the new book.
• Michael McKean’s favorite: Christopher Guest’s solo violin performance, calling it “great pantomime. Noisy pantomime, I guess you’d call it.” (09:21–09:53)

8. Improvisational Company & Breaking on Set

• Michael recounts moments where the cast had to redo scenes because they couldn’t stop laughing (21:32–23:29).
• The key to successful improv:

  “The mistake you can make is to look for that punchline instead of living in the scene.”
  – Michael McKean (24:12)

9. The Spinal Tap Songcraft Approach

• On their music:
  “The goal was the humor would come out in the lyrics, never in the music... So we never wanted the music to be the thing that got the laughs.” –Rob Reiner (30:58–31:14)

10. Building the Spinal Tap Universe

• On backstory & lore:
  Before shooting, the cast crafted a ‘bible’ of band history and personal details to support seamless improv (33:00–33:34).

11. Revisiting Spinal Tap—The Sequel

• Rob describes overcoming doubts to create "Spinal Tap 2: The End Continues” (35:03–36:17).

  “The effortless part was the way we interacted with each other. ...But the idea of doing a sequel … we had all said, no, we've done it. Let it be the high.”

• The follow-up: They filmed a concert for the Heritage Foundation at Stonehenge featuring guests like Eric Clapton and Shania Twain, and (hilariously) Josh Groban singing "Bitch School". (37:02–37:36)

  "That one's called Spinal Tap at Stonehenge. The final finale." (37:36)

12. “Plot Twist” Rapid-fire Section

• Turning things up to 11:
  • Michael turns up his leisure time; Rob is “still searching for 11” in his work. (39:33–40:27)
• Real-life Spinal Tap moments:
  • Michael: Playing a rain-soaked, electrified stage in Boston (40:48–41:56)
  • Rob: Albert Brooks falling off an incomplete set during summer stock theater (43:59)
• Creative rituals:
  • Michael focuses on breathing to stay real in performance (46:01–46:20)
  • The team’s use of “Grimsby Cards” for sorting scene ideas—a quirky, effective writer’s room prop (44:23–45:27)

13. What They're Listening To & Reading

• Michael’s picks:
  • Ron Chernow’s Mark Twain biography; a book on consciousness; Bill Homewood narrating "The Count of Monte Cristo" (“I can’t wait to get in the car and just drive nowhere just so I can listen to this…”) (47:23–48:38)
• Rob’s picks:
  • Writing a book inspired by his JFK assassination podcast with Soledad O'Brien. He enjoys blues, bluegrass, and country music performances found on social media. (50:07–50:49)

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Notable Quotes & Highlights

• “A fine line between stupid and clever.”
  — Rob Reiner, on the heart of Spinal Tap (09:54, 11:38)

• “If you're on the level, that's where the funny comes from, because there's something about the audacity of someone who's got a very dim bulb up here, telling everyone else what's what.”
  — Michael McKean (13:13-13:35)

• “We're the first generation that grew up on rock and roll in the 50s, and we love rock and roll, of course... so, you know, it was a love of the music and also could find what's funny about it too.”
  — Rob Reiner (16:18-16:31)

• “We all knew who left the band, who joined the band. We knew all those things so we could riff off of that rather than just have to make all that up.”
  — Rob Reiner, on their band 'bible' (33:00)

• “Does this merit a Grimsby? In other words, should we commit this to a Grimsby?”
  — Rob Reiner, explaining their quirky writing room system (44:29–45:17)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Opening chemistry & Spinal Tap lore intro: 00:02–03:09
• On Spinal Tap’s Mockumentary Legacy: 04:27–05:17
• Favorite scenes & improvisation stories: 09:14–12:28
• Blowback from real bands: 14:38–15:56
• On the affectionate nature of the parody: 16:18–16:49
• Creative process / “Schnadling” explained: 18:32–19:42
• Breaking on set & improv secrets: 21:32–24:46
• “This Goes to 11” scene improvisation: 25:19–26:12
• Crafting the Spinal Tap universe (the “band bible”): 33:00–33:49
• Sequel & Stonehenge concert: 35:03–37:45
• "Plot Twist" rapid-fire interview: 39:13–46:58
• What they're reading/listening to: 47:15–50:49

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Tone & Language

The episode is marked by a warm camaraderie, affectionate ribbing, high-level comedy craft, and deeply nerdy joy about art and improvisation. Guests and hosts speak with nostalgia, humility, and genuine creative pride, all peppered with signature deadpan Spinal Tap humor.

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Memorable Moments

• Michael McKean recounts watching a performance in Boston where rain drenched the stage—literally living a “Spinal Tap moment.” (41:51)
• Rob Reiner’s story about a cast-mate falling off an incomplete set:

  “He just...went off the edge and gone.” (43:59)

• Rob reveals a real-life Spinal Tap tattoo:

  “…he has the COVID of Shark Sandwich tattooed to his back…” (17:27)

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Closing Reflection

Helms and Penn wrap up marveling at the privilege of exploring the creative minds behind a foundational comedy. They highlight the enduring value of embracing one’s weirdness—a through-line in both Spinal Tap and the broader comedic community.

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For listeners and superfans:

The episode delivers a rich dose of behind-the-scenes Spinal Tap lore, creative-intellectual chemistry, and practical insight for comics and storytellers—all with the same blend of mock-seriousness and genuine affection that define the Spinal Tap legacy.

Transcript

[Ed Helms]

Welcome to the I Heart and Audible Audiobook Club. I'm Ed Helms and I am the host of another podcast called Snafu. And with me is the host of yet another podcast. Here we go again, my dear buddy, Kal Penn.

[Kal Penn]

Hello, sir.

[Ed Helms]

How are you, sir?

[Kal Penn]

I'm great. I'm great.

[Ed Helms]

You are great. Can I just say, Cal Penn is great, everybody.

[Kal Penn]

Come on. What a nice thing to say.

[Ed Helms]

I mean, you're frickin funny and delightful and incredibly smart and insightful, and that's a killer combination of traits.

[Kal Penn]

I'm glad I don't have these traits at age 11. Again, they were not helpful as an 11 year old, but I do enjoy them as an adult.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah, yeah, that's not uncommon. A precocious child is actually a very charming adult, but man, are they annoying. I'm sorry to have dug up that trauma.

[Michael McKean]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Rob Reiner]

Guaranteed human.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

You took the elevator to the 48th floor and handed him the briefing. Your fingertips touched, sending a shockwave of desire through the air. The room pulsed with a silent craving as he drew you in with his smoldering gaze before uttering the words your body ached to hear.

[Ed Helms]

The next train on track two is delayed.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

And all the while, you were on your commute home. There's more to imagine when you listen Discover Romance titles on audible.

[Ed Helms]

All right, I'm going to name some names here. I want you to tell me what these names have in common. Are you ready?

[Kal Penn]

Yep.

[Ed Helms]

Eric Stumpy. Joe Childs. Peter James Bond. Mick Shrimpton. Richard Rick Shrimpton. Joe Mama Besser. And Scott Skippy Scuffleton.

[Kal Penn]

More than half sound familiar and I honestly cannot place it.

[Ed Helms]

Okay, these are all drummers from the band Spinal Tap, who all met their very untimely demise in the Spinal Tap lore. There was a bizarre gardening accident. There was, I believe, one of them spontaneously combusted. It was rather dramatic. This is Spinal Tap is of course, the pioneering 1984 mockumentary created by Rob Reiner and starring Reiner along with Christopher Guest, Harry shearer and Michael McKeon. It spoofs the over the top world of rock and roll and heavy metal in the 70s and 80s. And it also spoofs the documentaries that venerate these rock stars. Cal, do you remember watching Spinal Tap.

[Kal Penn]

A very, very long time ago? And I should also note it was like one of those 2am in college kind of things. Kind of viewerships, of course, huge Chris Guest, Rob Reiner fan. But it has been a while. I need to revisit.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah, I have to say, Rob Reiner and Christopher Guest and all these guys, they live in a very special comedy universe. And it's so fun to learn about all of their history together and how their lives kind of interweave and overlap. And then, of course, Spinal Tap is its own ecosystem. Like, they've created an entire mythology around this totally fake band, and it is just beyond hilarious. And I have to say, it's very much a part of my own comedy development. Listeners, if you haven't seen the original 1984 movie, you should definitely just stop right now and go see it. It is so damn special and hilarious. But as a refresher.

Rob Reiner plays Marty debur, a documentary filmmaker who follows the fictional band Spinal Tap, portrayed by Christopher Guest, Michael McKeon and Harry Shearer. Marty follows Spinal Tap in what I would call a series of escalating mishaps. It's definitely a cult movie, but one that has left a huge mark on pop culture, not the least of which is the Christopher Guest line. These go to 11, a version of which made it into the Shorter Oxford English dictionary in 2002.

[Kal Penn]

That's an accomplishment right there.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah, I know. It's pretty cool if you can, like, affect the codified language. I also have to say, this movie is widely considered the original mainstream mockumentary, and that, of course, spawned a vast ecosystem of great movies and television, including all of Christopher Guest's subsequent movies, like Best in show and Waiting for Guffman and so many other great ones. And then, of course, the show I worked on, the Office, that was a mockumentary. I feel like the Office and Parks and Rec and all these great mockumentary shows are descendants of Spinal Tap in.

[Kal Penn]

A way that must have been awesome then, to have loved Spinal Tap so much and then get to work on the Office in. I don't know if saying in the style of is even correct, but, like, that's so cool.

[Ed Helms]

It was. The Office was a dream in so many, so many ways, which is a whole conversation for another day. But today we're talking about the new audiobook, A Fine Line Between Stupid and Clever, the Story of Spinal Tap. It's written by Rob Reiner with Christopher Guest, Harry shearer and Michael McKean, and voiced by Rob Reiner, although they all appear in the audiobook as well. It's a history of how the movie and the band came together, the film's unexpected afterlife, and how 40 years later, everyone got the band back together for the sequel, which is out now. It's called Spinal Tap 2, the end continues. I mean, come on, is that not the best title ever?

[Kal Penn]

It's great.

[Ed Helms]

The audiobook also includes an in universe oral history featuring all the actors as their respective characters. It's called Smell the Book.

For the uninitiated, that's a bit of wordplay on one of Spinal Tap's albums from within the movie called Smell the Glove. And what that means God only knows. But this is an absolutely ridiculous and delightful and wonderful component of the audiobook and it features all of the main players just doing their over the top shtick. Cal, I'm super excited for this one. I get to talk to not one, but two of the core people who made Spinal Tap and this audiobook happen.

[Kal Penn]

Incredible. I. I am jealous. So I'm just gonna get out of here and we'll talk again after the interview's over.

[Ed Helms]

Alright, I'll see you later.

Now, here to get into a fine line between stupid and clever, the story of Spinal Tap is the audiobook's author and voice. Spinal Tap, creator and director and co star, director of Stand By Me, When Harry Met Sally, the Princess Bride, and so many more great movies. Rob Reiner also joining the show. One of the great comedic actors of all time. He is of course in the movie Spinal Tap as well as Spinal Tap. The End continues. He's incredible in the great show Better Call Saul. He's in other movies like Best in Show and just an overwhelming resume of tremendous comedy over so many decades. Rob REINER and Michael McKeon, welcome to Earsay.

[Michael McKean]

Thank you.

[Ed Helms]

It's truly such a pleasure to have you join our audiobook club today.

[Rob Reiner]

It's a pleasure to be here, Ed.

[Michael McKean]

Nice to be joined.

[Ed Helms]

Well, of course you are part of the incredible team behind Spinal Tap. Rob, you directed that legendary movie. Michael, you are part of the band. This is such a thrill for me because that movie means so much to me. I remember it came out in 1984. I was 10 years old. I was not aware of it then, but very soon after when it landed at Blockbuster Video, I was like, I'd been hearing about this from the older kids at school and like, this is a thing I had to. And I got it. I forced my dad to rent it for me. And he was like, what the hell is this? He's looking at the hard rock picture on the front and he's like, what? Okay, fine. And we get home, we start watching it and I'll be honest, as like a 12 year old at that time, I don't think I got half of It. I got half of it.

[Michael McKean]

Yeah, you got exactly half of it. And we know which half.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah, but my dad was howling.

[Rob Reiner]

Oh, he was?

[Ed Helms]

Yeah. And I realized, like, this is important. This is something I have to latch onto. And so, of course, I just rewatched it over the years, and it's become very much a part of my comedy DNA. Truly. And I want to thank you for that, De Nata.

[Michael McKean]

Our pleasure.

[Rob Reiner]

You're totally welcome.

[Ed Helms]

Do either of you have a favorite scene from the movie? I mean, that's an impossible question, but do you? Does something jump out?

[Michael McKean]

I used to say that my favorite thing. Because I had nothing to do with it. And it's brilliant. It's about a minute and a half, maybe two minutes. Rob could probably tell me of Chris just soloing on the stage with, you know, with all the feedback and then the violin and the.

[Rob Reiner]

My favorite moment in that moment is he picks up the violin and uses it again, you know? But then at one moment, he just tunes a little bit. A little. The peg. He just tunes a peg a little bit just to get it just right. It's.

[Michael McKean]

It's great pantomime. Noisy pantomime, I guess you'd call it.

[Ed Helms]

It's fabulous.

[Rob Reiner]

Well, my. My favorite. My. My favorite scene. And it's become the title of the book that we. That we put out called A Fine Line Between Stupid and Clever. And my favorite line in the movie is A fine line between Stupid and Clever. And it's a scene where Spinal Tap is. Their gig has just been canceled. And they were sitting in the hotel in the lobby there, and all of a sudden, this very big, famous rock musician, Duke Fame, walks in, and they say, hello. And he's a big shot, and he's got a manager played by Howard Hessman. And Howard says, listen, I wish I could talk to you guys, but I have to go in the lobby and wait for the limo. Don't have time to talk. I love that. And then he leaves. And then everybody says, what a wanker, that Duke Fame. He's a wanker there. We used to. We used to open for us. He. People booted with. He was terrible. And then the manager comes back, he says, I don't understand. Duke Fame's got it. Because they had an album that they couldn't release called Smell the Glove, which had a sexist cover and they couldn't release it. And he says, well, I don't understand Duke Fame. He has an album cover where he's naked and there's all these women that are whipping him and that's. And then Tony Hendrew, who plays the manager, says, no, well, you don't understand the difference is he's the victim. See, in your album, she's the victim because she's on all fours and she's being made to sniff a glove. And then the guys are like. They're puzzled. He's. Oh, I see what they did. There's a twist. They turned around and one guy said, yeah, there's a fine line between stupid. And then Harry says, and clever. And I just love that. And to me, that's the essence of Spinal top. Fine line between stupid and clever.

[Ed Helms]

I think you're right.

[Michael McKean]

And it's also something that happened on the moment it happened. Conversational. I mean, the entire film is improvised, but it was one of those things we were all kind of thinking on the same track and it just kind of spilled out. Right?

[Ed Helms]

Yeah.

[Rob Reiner]

And it's interesting because we shot the film with one camera. We shot maybe a scene two or three times and. And it. Because, like Michael says, it's improvised. You don't know what's going to come out on what. You know, it's not going to be matched. It's not going to be like a script where you say the same things. So different things would come out. And in that case, the punchline, which is Harry saying. And clever is off camera. Now, you normally would. You know, you'd focus on that. Yeah, you'd pick it up. But we found this in the cutting room. And I said, well, that works in the tracks. And so. And it works. The joke works, even though the punchline's not on camera.

[Ed Helms]

It's the title of this book and audiobook. And I think you're right, it captures not only what's so fun about the spirit of the movie, but also, to me, what you have done, as the creators of Spinal Tap, is to create these characters that are so beautifully stupid.

[Michael McKean]

Thank you.

[Ed Helms]

They're right at this sort of, like, nexus of confidence, obliviousness and stupidity. But to execute that and to improvise that with such precision and consistency takes a profound cleverness.

[Michael McKean]

Well, we had our work cut out for us because the people we were doing, the people we were embodying, take themselves very, very seriously.

[Ed Helms]

Of course.

[Michael McKean]

And if you. If you do that, if you're on the level, that's where the funny comes from, because there's something about the audacity of someone who's got a very dim bulb up here, telling everyone else what's.

[Rob Reiner]

What, and also their philosophies of Life and how deep and profound they are.

[Michael McKean]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Rob Reiner]

What's wonderful is we have, you know, these great albums where, you know, the rock and roll creation and all these very highfalutin ideas about these guys thinking they really got a grasp of the way the world works and the way the universe works. And to be honest, you know, there were a lot of heavy metal rock musicians that were very upset with us because they did take themselves seriously and they're making fun of us. You know, that's not right. You know, we really do make great music and all this stuff, and they do make great music, but it's not as highfalutin as they think it is.

[Ed Helms]

Isn't that the sort of highest compliment, though? Doesn't that mean that you've really punched the button if they're feeling a little agitated at the parody of self importance?

[Rob Reiner]

Yeah, I think so. And a lot of them, over time got to really dig it.

[Ed Helms]

Sure.

[Rob Reiner]

I mean, they accepted it and they said, oh, this is really cool. And they loved the fact that we were making fun, you know, sincere form of flattery and all that.

[Ed Helms]

So I had heard that. I've read about some of the Blowback at the time from people like Ozzy Osbourne and Steven Tyler. How real was that? I mean, did they hold grudges for years? Was this something that affected your lives?

[Michael McKean]

Well, here's the thing. Blowback used to be a different sized animal than it is now. We encountered Steven Tyler, and this was his thing. It was like, too close, too close, too close. And he would smile a little bit, but mainly it was like, this hurts.

[Rob Reiner]

It's so close.

[Michael McKean]

And we heard that Ozzy didn't like it, but it was the same thing. It was like I felt uncomfortable because I felt spied on. But that came down as they didn't like it.

[Ed Helms]

Right, right.

[Michael McKean]

And it's like, nonsense. I met Ozzy years later, and he was adored the movie, and he was great about it. But now it's like somebody says anything, and you'll get 30, 000 people saying, did you hear that?

[Rob Reiner]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Michael McKean]

So it's a different world.

[Rob Reiner]

I mean, the same thing happened with Axl Rose. And then Slash basically said to him, no, no, it's funny. They're making money. And then Axl Rose. Oh, yeah, I see. I get what they're doing. And same thing. When I first met Sting, he was just, you know, hitting with the police and everything. And he said, listen, I watched this movie over and over. I don't know whether to laugh or cry, you know, I mean, so that was like, you know, great compliment.

[Ed Helms]

The movie is affectionate and this is what I think elevates certain comedy from other comedy. You're not really punching down. There's genuine affection for these characters, as oblivious as they are and as self important as they are. And you're sort of having fun with their hubris. But I never felt like there was ridicule baked in there.

[Rob Reiner]

We're the first generation that grew up on rock and roll in the 50s, and we love rock and roll, of course, and we all grew up with that. So, you know, it was a love of the music and also could find what's funny about it too.

[Ed Helms]

Exactly.

[Rob Reiner]

So, you know, you try to mix those things.

[Michael McKean]

So when you're 16, your favorite band is printed on your forehead and it's like, it's who you are and every.

[Ed Helms]

Article of clothing that you wear.

[Michael McKean]

That's right, that's right. And it's all about that. And it's like you look at yourself, what a stupid kid I was. And boy, I was happy.

[Rob Reiner]

Yeah, yeah.

[Michael McKean]

I love the music. So I was. I've been listening to the Kinks a lot lately. That's kind of my, My. My pet third band. You know, everybody loved the Beatles, everybody loved the who and the Stones and all that. But the Kinks were always like so on the money to me. And I knew I wasn't an English guy, you know, from. From Muswell Hill. I was this American kid. But there's something about those days, which, when you're 16, that's what you do. You take on that, that coloration, you know, and it stays with. Or it stays with me. I show no signs of growing up.

[Rob Reiner]

Amen.

[Michael McKean]

But I just bought a Kinks album about a week ago. So, you know, there you go.

[Ed Helms]

Fabulous.

[Rob Reiner]

You know, one time I was at this party once for Nick Polegi. It was his birthday, 90th birthday party. And his stepson Max is a musician. He's a guitarist now. He plays with Taylor Swift, but He was with Ke$ha. He's played with a lot of different bands. Nick says to me, you know, he's got a Spinal Tap tattoo on his back. No, really, get out of here. So I go over to him and I said, max, Nick told me that you have a spinal tattoo. He takes down his shirt and in the back he has the COVID of Shark Sandwich tattooed to his back, which is this sandwich with a little fin coming out the.

So you talk about having your favorite band tattooed to your forehead. He literally had it tattooed.

[Ed Helms]

All right, I want to talk a little bit about the creative process. The audiobook details. Schnadling. Tell us what exactly that is and the role it plays in the sort of writing and execution or even in the origin of the movie.

[Rob Reiner]

That's a term that Chris Guest first threw out long time ago. He referred to the back and forth of improvisation. As you're schnadling with each other, you're just, you know, kind of riffing. Riffing with each other.

[Ed Helms]

You know, where that.

[Michael McKean]

Where that.

[Ed Helms]

What that word means exactly. Or where it came from.

[Rob Reiner]

It's a made up word.

[Ed Helms]

Just a made up word.

[Rob Reiner]

Okay, here's a great story. You gotta. You'll like this. So we've been trying. There's a guy in prison. In. In. That's not the funny part.

[Michael McKean]

Not so far.

[Rob Reiner]

Not so far. But there's a guy in prison in Texas. His name is Nainan Williams. And guy has been in prison. We've been trying to get out for a long time. He's a great guy. He's in there for a crime he didn't commit. He's got three master's degrees, he's written books, he teaches all these young inmates. And he asked me, he said, you know, send me a book, Send me one of the books. You know, fine line between stupid. So I sent him the book, we talked about it. And he read some. You know, these kids, they don't know who Spiletab is. They don't know who I am. They don't know any of it. But they're listening to it and they've picked up on Schneidering, says, hey, what's that? We start. And they start. We're going to start Schneidering with each other. So you got these prisoners down in. Down in Houston, Schnadling.

[Michael McKean]

I love it. That's awesome.

[Ed Helms]

It's therapeutic for sure.

[Michael McKean]

Oh, man, that's fantastic.

[Rob Reiner]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Ed Helms]

So Schneiderling is. Is essentially improvisation. There's an anecdote in the audiobook about a video shoot that you guys are doing. And the Schnadling sort of starts during.

[Rob Reiner]

Like an overhead shot.

[Ed Helms]

They're all. Everybody's lying on the floor.

[Rob Reiner]

Yeah. We were doing a takeoff of.

[Michael McKean]

This is our debut.

[Rob Reiner]

Yeah, this was a takeoff of Midnight Special was part of a TV show that had a satire of all kinds of different things on television. You know, we had sitcoms and telethons and commercials. And one of the things we did was this Midnight Special. I came out as Wolfman Jack and I introduced for the first time Spinal Tap, England's loudest band. And they came out and they played a song called Rock and Roll. Part of it was live and part of it was kind of an MTV video, like, cheesy video.

[Michael McKean]

Really cheap.

[Rob Reiner]

Yeah, really cheap. And there was one part where they had this, I guess, a fogger or a smoke, a bee smoker or something, and it kept leaking hot oil on them.

[Michael McKean]

Yeah.

[Rob Reiner]

And we. We had them on the floor. We were trying to do like a. A Busby Berkeley kind of thing with the legs going, you know.

[Ed Helms]

Right. But you're getting like a medieval torture.

[Rob Reiner]

Torture.

[Michael McKean]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Ed Helms]

Of some sort.

[Rob Reiner]

But they started, you know, they started making fun and they started, you know, Schneidering. They started doing shtick and those characters. And then we said, jesus, these guys, we should find something else for them to do, not just lie on the floor and get hot oil poured on them. Although. Although, that's all.

[Michael McKean]

That's a conversation. Another conversation.

[Ed Helms]

That's fabulous. Now, when you guys are needling, especially while. While the camera is rolling, are you breaking a lot? Are there any bad laughers in your group?

[Michael McKean]

Well, there were a few scenes that ended slightly early, and Paul Benedict, who was one of the great guys ever, who plays the hotel clerk, he gets into a contretemps with Tony, who's making cracks about his sexuality and everything. And it's like Paul comes in for a day and just lays all of us out. He's so brilliant and so funny. Tony Hendriz, the manager, is always carrying around this cricket bat. So he puts the cricket bat up on the counter while he's talking to the guy to get these rooms straightened out. And Paul, the hotel clerk, just points to the bat and he goes, well, you can't take that to your room.

And Tony goes, innocently enough, why not? And Paul said, well, it's enormous. And that's all there was to.

[Ed Helms]

Makes no sense.

[Michael McKean]

No, but. Little story that we told ourselves in our heads at that moment, started laughing before he even got the rest of the word out. And there's no reason why that's so brilliantly funny, but it was. And.

[Rob Reiner]

And Fred Willard also had a way. Had a way. He was one of the best improvisers. And you can see in this one scene where he's telling him about the gig they're going to play on the army base, and you can see Chris Guest kind of ducking behind somebody because he's starting to go. He doesn't want to ruin the tape. And there was one that I actually went. And that Was Chris Tolley surprised me. He's playing a piano, very quiet, kind of classical piece. And I go, that's interesting. You know, that's something very different from what you normally play. He says, well, it's, you know, it's a classical comedy. Mozart and Bach is called Machpeace. It's in D minor, which I think is the saddest of all keys. And it's just simple lines intertwined. And I said, well, what do you call this? He says, lick my love, pumpkin. And I went. I went.

We had to do that scene over and scene.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah, yeah. I was notorious on the office for ruining takes for laughing. And there were. Like you described, Chris. There's a scene in a Christmas episode where Steve Carell is being so funny that I have to duck behind a plant. And I'm behind the plant for the majority of the scene. But it's part of what's so fun and frustrating about improvisation. Right. Is that the best stuff can get ruined so easily.

[Michael McKean]

Yeah, yeah. But I mean, that's how things happen in a good improvisational company, and there are a few, and there have been many over the years. The mistake you can make is to look for that punchline instead of living in the scene.

[Ed Helms]

Yes. Because that's amen.

[Michael McKean]

Some of the. Peter Bonners is one of the best improvisers I ever saw, and I never saw him crack a joke or anything like it. He just existed in the scene. Anything he was doing was completely absurd. But he took it dead seriously and he was hilarious and he would never break in a million years.

[Ed Helms]

That is the secret. Yeah. Just to take it all dead seriously. Take it all bitch and not chase the punchlines. There are a lot of scenes that feel in the movie, completely improvised.

[Rob Reiner]

Like, they're all improvised. Every. All the dialogue is improvised completely.

[Ed Helms]

I guess that's my question. Like, there's the talking about the drummers that have died. And Chris breaks in that, by the way, on the vomit line.

[Michael McKean]

Yes.

[Ed Helms]

Which I think. Which he says. And he starts to chuckle, but he saves it.

[Michael McKean]

Yeah. And he keeps it in character, more or less. Just enough.

[Ed Helms]

But I love it. It's just a little glimpse under the veil. But then there are scenes like the legendary amp that goes to 11, which clearly was crap.

[Rob Reiner]

Oh, yeah. Well, yeah, we had the. We had the prop. We knew that we're going to have an amp that went to 11, but we didn't know how we were going to get to it or how it was going to be revealed or what we were.

[Michael McKean]

Or how you Feature something this big.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah.

[Michael McKean]

In a movie that's a documentary. Yeah.

[Rob Reiner]

Or what we were going to say about it. And my. My favorite moment in there is Chris is showing me around all the different guitars. And then he shows me this amp that goes up to 11. And I said, well, I don't. Why do you have it to go? He said, well, it's one louder, isn't it? I said, well, yeah, but I mean, couldn't you make the top number B10 and just make that a little louder? And he had no answer for that. Yeah, I hit him with something that I basically painted him into a corner.

[Michael McKean]

He made his own.

[Rob Reiner]

It was a long, long pause and he goes, well, this goes to 11. He had no answer for it.

[Ed Helms]

The honesty of his performance in that moment is so perfect.

[Michael McKean]

There's another little tiny moment that Chris does. It's when we're in the airport and Janine has taken over the management of the band and she's laying out all this shit about astrology, is telling us to go to this city and not this one. She's rearranging everything. And Chris, who's wearing a cowboy hat for the only moment in the film he's wearing that, she says, have you got this? And he just. Without even really looking at her, he kind of tilts his head and holds up the same thing she's reading from and then puts it down. And there's something about that moment that just says everything. How about you go to hell? But without actually saying it. And don't worry about me, I'm out of here anyway. It's great, Laden.

[Ed Helms]

That's fabulous. There's one moment I have to know if it was improvised. And it's the fabulous scene with Bruno Kirby as the limo driver. And I know that what you shot was actually much longer than what made the movie, but the bit where he starts to go off on Frank Sinatra and the window between the limo driver cab and the passenger section just slowly rises.

[Rob Reiner]

Yeah, I think that was. One of you guys just did that or something.

[Michael McKean]

I think going into the scene we said when he starts going on about stuff, just shut him out of the world. But we didn't know where.

[Ed Helms]

So funny. It's just so funny. And Bruno Kirby's reaction was perfect.

[Michael McKean]

Yeah. There's an outtake of scene where we get his character really high and he winds up singing my way into a chunk of pizza and.

[Rob Reiner]

In his underwear.

[Michael McKean]

In his underwear. And then he passes out. Nearly killed him. So missed a desk by like, this much in the hotel room.

[Kal Penn]

Wow.

[Michael McKean]

But it was awfully funny. But it was just, oh, if we go there, we'll be there for 10 minutes.

[Rob Reiner]

Yeah, we had some great stuff that wound up, as they say on the cutting room floor. My favorite thing was. And it's. It just. It was a great joke, great stuff, but it just took too long to unfold. There was a band that opened for Spinal Tap at one point called the Dose, which was kind of a punk band. And the lead singer was Sherry Curie from. From the Runaways. And you see then Nigel and her are kind of canoodling a little bit. In the next scene, Nigel has a herpes sore on his lip, and we don't make much of it. The next thing, you see David, you know, played by Michael, and he's also making out with her. And the next.

[Michael McKean]

And Viv.

[Rob Reiner]

And the next scene, herpes, soul. He makes a way. All the way around. And then there's a band meeting where five of them are sitting around deciding they're going to vote whether or not they're going to keep the Dose on the tour. And the four. There's four guys with herpes sores. They say, I think we should draw. I think so. And the drummers, the only guy without a herpes sore, he says, I think they're good. I think we should get them. But it just took so long. And the only remnant, the only thing left is there's the scene where you see Nigel and David. They both have herpes. We never explain it.

[Michael McKean]

No.

[Rob Reiner]

And it gets a laugh. For some reason. I don't know. I never know to this day why I got that laugh.

[Michael McKean]

For one reason. There's this little undercurrent about how close Nigel and David really are and always have been, you know, and it's kind of.

[Rob Reiner]

So you're saying it's a gay thing, that's what you're saying?

[Michael McKean]

I'm saying it's a gray area.

[Rob Reiner]

It's a gay area.

[Michael McKean]

But Richard Curtis, the wonderful screenwriter and director, I've met him, and he said, you know, Spinal Tap's my favorite romantic comedy. He says it's got the same structure. It's, you guys belong together. And, you know, everything else in the world is kind of a distraction because you're looking for that moment when you were two little assholes on the street corner playing skiffle music, you know, and so it was like, okay, Ricky Gervais.

[Rob Reiner]

Ricky Gervais said the same exact thing when I interviewed him. He said, it's a romantic comedy. I love that.

[Ed Helms]

I hadn't thought of that. So Spinal Tap is obviously a parody band. The songs are insanely funny, but they're not exactly a joke themselves. Let's listen to a clip.

[Michael McKean]

Big bottom.

[Ed Helms]

Okay, so the songs are hilarious, but they're also objectively great songs.

[Rob Reiner]

That was the goal. The goal was the humor would come out in the lyrics, never in the music. They're all great musicians. They all take it seriously. And the music is good, like you say. So we never wanted the music to be the thing that got the laughs. It was always the lyrics.

[Ed Helms]

I'm just curious how you arrived at that. I remember a debate we had on the Office. My character was in a production of Sweeney Todd in the world of the Office, and there was a debate in pre production. It's Scranton community theater. Do we want these actors to be bad and for it to sort of be silly? And I felt very passionately that even community theater actors are oftentimes extremely talented and they're extremely committed, and that. That isn't what's funny about the scene.

[Rob Reiner]

It's a very tricky line to walk because they can't be sensational actors. Sure, but they can be adequate, proficient. I mean, Chris.

[Ed Helms]

But you're not finding humor in how bad they are.

[Michael McKean]

No, no.

[Rob Reiner]

But Chris guest made this thing about community theatrical. Waiting for Guffman, of course, and. And it's kind of perfect because they're, you know, they're doing their thing, but it's just like the line that we have to tread with Spinal Tap. We love what they do, but we also can make fun of it.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah. I have the book and the audiobook, and obviously this podcast is about the audiobook. Both the book and the audiobook contain this fabulous kind of little surprise at the end. Smell the book, which is the oral history of Spinal Tap, where you guys basically just live inside the mythology and make up new memories as you go. And it's wild. After all these years, it just. It feels like all these fake stories have just taken on the weight of actual rock and roll canon.

[Rob Reiner]

Before we started the first film, we had a bible. I mean, we knew who these characters were because when you're improvising, especially David and Nigel, if they were kids together from Squatney, they have to have shared experiences. And so we improvise, but we also have the background of knowing who left the band, who joined the band. We knew all those things so we could. We could riff off of that rather than just have to make all that up.

[Michael McKean]

Right. We did do a little cramming right before we did the interviews for the book where we said, let's go over this again.

[Rob Reiner]

Okay.

[Michael McKean]

Yeah. Are we going to get to lesson Mary Chiswick or what are. You know, there are three dozen names we can pick up, you know, we can throw in, of course. And. And that we all shared this. We weren't going to get to it all, but it's nice to have it there.

[Rob Reiner]

Yeah, yeah.

[Michael McKean]

Like a Gideon Bible, pretty much.

[Ed Helms]

Sure. When you're in those sort of Schnadling moments, do you find yourself in a flow state ever? Do you ever find it just. You feel like, oh, this is definitely going to make the final cut. This is the.

[Rob Reiner]

I never know. I never know what's going to make the final cut. All I know is just stay in the moment. Stay in the moment, because I'm working with brilliant minds and brilliant comedians and brilliant improvisers, and something's going to come out and I don't know what it's going to be. I never know.

[Ed Helms]

So it's been 40 years since the original Spinal Tap.

[Rob Reiner]

41, actually.

[Ed Helms]

40. We're at 41 now.

[Rob Reiner]

Yeah. Or as the Spinal Tap people would call the golden anniversary.

[Ed Helms]

So, finally, with the film sequel out Now, Spinal Tap 2, the end continues, which is just one of the greatest comedy movie titles of all time. I'm wondering, after such a definitive first film, talk about some of the challenges and opportunities that presented themselves in revisiting these characters. Was it truly effortless, kind of slipping back into this, or did it take a lot of.

[Rob Reiner]

Well, the effortless part was the way we interacted with each other. That always was there. We always had fun with that. But the idea of doing a sequel to something that we had all said, no, we've done it. Let it be the high. It's a high bar, you know, It's a really high bar. And we're old. But as we talked, something came out of it that was very real, which is, first of all, the guys hadn't played together in 15 years. So we said, well, what's that about? Is there bad blood? Are they not talking? What's going on? And then the idea of older people still touring or still performing, that was out there. Paul McCartney was in the movie, he's still performing. You see the Stones, you see the who, the who is out there doing it. And the Eagles and Oasis back together. So that's a real thing. And then we had to figure, well, what's the reason? Why weren't they talking? And what's the reason that throws them back together Once we Had that. We said, okay, it's a story that could stand on its own. You don't have to have seen the first one. Obviously. Better if you have, you'll get some of the references, but if you haven't. And we had screenings where half the people had never seen the first.

[Ed Helms]

Sure.

[Rob Reiner]

And they. They went with this. They thought this was great.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah. Well, huge congrats on just the universe that you've created and now expanded on even further with Spinal Tap 2. It's. It is a hell of a treat, and I hope you make maybe at least three or four more. Do you have it in you?

[Rob Reiner]

Here's the thing. And we can tell you, because it's not a secret. No. Well, it's been released to the press that after we finished Spinal Tap two, the End continues. We were approached by the Heritage foundation in England to do a concert at Stonehenge. At the actual Stonehenge.

[Ed Helms]

Oh, my God.

[Rob Reiner]

And so it was an impossible thing not to say yes to. And we got together, we went over to England and did a concert in front of this Stonehenge. And, you know, this Eric Clapton came on and performed, and Shania Twain came on. And my favorite thing, though, was Josh Groban sings Bitch School. And it's worth the price of admission.

[Michael McKean]

Yeah. Yeah. It's pretty amazing.

[Rob Reiner]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Ed Helms]

Will that be.

[Rob Reiner]

That'll come out next year. That'll be visible next year.

[Ed Helms]

Oh, fantastic.

[Rob Reiner]

Yeah. And that one's called. It's called Spinal Tap at Stonehenge. The final finale. Perfect.

[Michael McKean]

But don't give away the ending, Rob.

[Rob Reiner]

No, I'm not gonna do. I won't do that.

[Ed Helms]

Isn't redundancy always funny?

[Michael McKean]

Listen. And we wrote a song called Tonight, I'm Gonna Rock youk Tonight. So how do you think we feel about that?

[Ed Helms]

Yeah, there it is. Okay, we're gonna take a quick break, but we'll be right back.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Explore anything with Audible. Groundbreaking Cinema. Rock and Roll Royalty. Exploding Drummers. Audible excites the imagination with stories and ideas that. That open you up to more possibilities. Listening can change your mood, your life, maybe even the world. Every day, something new awaits. Every title takes you in new directions. Audible helps you dream bigger and escape the everyday. Audible allows you to escape into a world where there's a fine line between stupid and clever. The stars and directors of this is Spinal Tap. Rob Reiner, Christopher Guest, Michael McKean, and Harry she tell the complete story of the movie, its fictitious band, and their music. Listen to this episode's audiobook Club. Pick a Fine Line between stupid and Clever and over 1 million other audiobooks, podcasts, and exclusive Audible originals, all in one Easy app. Visit audible.com Irsay Fineline Today, new customers can sign up for a 30 day free trial. That's audible.com Irsay Fineline.

[Michael McKean]

All right, we're.

[Ed Helms]

Going to jump into a section of the interview called Plot Twist, where I'm just going to just fire at you some questions.

[Michael McKean]

All right?

[Ed Helms]

Spinal Tap's infamous custom amps famously went one louder to 11. What in your lives have you turned up to 11?

[Rob Reiner]

That's a good question.

[Michael McKean]

My leisure time, it's approaching 100% and.

[Ed Helms]

I'm delighted you've turned it down to 11.

[Michael McKean]

No, no, no, I just. Listen, Rob and I are the same age. We've all been doing a lot of things for a long time, and it's like really appreciating that. It sounds very corny, very hallmark, but I really do think that me not doing much of anything on a really nice day is better than anything that's fabulous.

[Rob Reiner]

Listen, I'm probably, of the four of us, I would say the most driven and crazy driven. And in my mind, I haven't gotten the 11 yet. I mean, as close as I ever got with, you know, it's a cliche, but you're. The birth of your children. I mean, that is like, oh, that can't get. Doesn't get any better. But in terms of my work and stuff, I still feel like there's an 11 out there somewhere.

[Ed Helms]

Amazing.

[Rob Reiner]

Oh, I love that.

[Ed Helms]

Two very different answers.

[Rob Reiner]

Yes.

[Kal Penn]

All right.

[Ed Helms]

The band had numerous Spinal Tap moments, like getting lost backstage or the monumental Stonehenge prop being extremely tiny. Have you experienced a moment in your professional or personal life that felt like a true Spinal tap moment?

[Michael McKean]

In 1984, when the film came out, we played a handful of cities, and some of them, New York, L.A. chicago and Boston, were really well attended. Boston was huge. The film played for a year in Boston. It became like, this is what we. When we go to the movies, this is what we do. So we were really kind of hot. And we played at a place called the Channel Club. And I've had this corroborated by people who were there, said, man, I was there the night you played. And did it really rain on the stage and. Yeah, it did. There was this terrible storm outside and the stage was drenched, and we're there with electric instruments and I'm wearing boxing shoes. I'm wearing boxing shoes, which have this little kind of, you know, just the thickness of Barbara Walters skin. Yeah. And it was like, well, if we go here, at least we're a hit in this town, you know? But it really was. It was like. And Chris and I are looking at each other going, goodbye. Maybe.

[Ed Helms]

Wait, so this is your Spinal Tap moment in your life is also an actual Spinal Tap moment?

[Michael McKean]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Amazing. I've had little things, you know, when we did all the Way this play that I did in New York, but we did in. In Cambridge first.

[Rob Reiner]

You were great in that, by the way. I love that play.

[Michael McKean]

Oh, thank you. Thank you.

[Rob Reiner]

Yeah, that was great.

[Michael McKean]

And Bryant Cranston played lbj. The first scene is. He's having this vision about what the. What? I'm a. No, I'm the president. All of a sudden, JFK's been killed. I'm the president. What am I going to do? How am I going to do this? And then his desk rises out of the floor, and he goes behind his desk and begins the scene proper with other people. Well, opening night, it got halfway up.

[Ed Helms]

It's Stonehenge.

[Michael McKean]

And so they. They said, well, maybe we're gonna reboot. So everybody's standing on the stage and they lower it again and they bring it up again. And then it just breaks and it goes, g. Gah.

[Rob Reiner]

No.

[Michael McKean]

Yeah. And so then it's like dealing with that. But those are. There's. In the moments, they're happening. It's horrible stuff. But you know what? Tomorrow night we'll come back and try it again. You know, that's all you can do.

[Ed Helms]

Amen.

[Rob Reiner]

Well, for me, I mean, I've had a million of those kind of things on stage where stuff goes wrong, but one that just popped in my head. I was in the summer theater in Plymouth, Massachusetts, and Albert Brooks was in the company with me. We were doing a production of Mary Mary, you know, which is a comedy. And we're 18 years old. We're playing people in their 40s with the corn starch and the hair and all this stuff. And, you know, they had shows, ones a week, you know, they turned the show over every week. So you do a show for a week, you take the set down, put the other set back up, and. And they didn't get the set quite ready for the first performance of Mary. Mary and Albert and I are on stage and we're doing, you know, back and forth, back and forth. And then he goes to make an exit, and there was supposed to be some escape stairs, and he just. Oh, he just went off the edge and gone. In other words, I Opened the door, he walked out the door and just disappeared.

[Michael McKean]

Oh, no.

[Rob Reiner]

And then he comes back. He comes back, and his head was just on the floor above the thing, and he. And he goes, bye, bye, like this. And he went away. So, yeah, those. Those kind of things happen I love the best.

[Kal Penn]

All right.

[Ed Helms]

One of my favorite little tidbits in the audiobook describes how the creative team used Grimsby cards.

[Michael McKean]

Oh, yes.

[Ed Helms]

Which were cards with the. The Stern news anchor Roger Grimsby's headshot on one side.

[Rob Reiner]

Yes. Harry Shearer was going with a woman who worked at ABC News at the time, and Roger Grimsby was a broadcaster. He was on camera. And they had a whole stack of, like, promotional cards where they had a picture of Roger Grimsby on the front and it was empty on the back. We used these cards. We had a big bulletin board, and anytime we have a scene that we thought, oh, this could work, we'd pin it up on the bulletin board. And it got to be where if we had an idea and we thought maybe it was good or should it be in the movie or not, we would say, does this merit a Grimsby? In other words, should we commit this to a Grimsby? And so if it did, if it got on the board, it was a Grimsby. When we did the sequel, Michael goes, I. Where did you get those pictures, Michael, you got.

[Michael McKean]

I just grabbed it off the Internet.

[Rob Reiner]

He got off the Internet. There was a picture of Roger Grimsey, and he had a whole stack of Grimsby's made so that we could. We could, you know, keep the tradition alive.

[Ed Helms]

Oh, that's fabulous. I. I feel like somebody needs to sell Grimsby cards to screenwriters.

[Michael McKean]

Oh, my God. The money will come rolling in.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah.

[Michael McKean]

I mean, what a million dollar idea.

[Rob Reiner]

Yeah.

[Michael McKean]

It's a gold.

[Ed Helms]

Guys, this is our next venture. This is our next first step. Here we go. All right. Well, it, you know, it's. It is such a fun, clever, creative technique. Do you have. Do either of you have an unexpected or unusual method in your own creative process?

[Rob Reiner]

God, I don't know. I wouldn't even know how to begin to describe where things come from.

[Michael McKean]

I just have to keep remembering to breathe, you know, because sometimes if you're kind of waiting for something to happen, you kind of lose the reality because a real person is going to be breathing. I've just found sometimes I got to remind myself, okay. And it just helps you stay with them. I don't know. I don't have any other style.

[Ed Helms]

That's a hell of a good answer.

[Michael McKean]

I've always liked making these guys laugh and they Know, I'm a soft touch when it comes to.

[Rob Reiner]

And he does all the time. I mean, that's the thing about Michael, his brainwalk, you know, all three of them, their brains work in different ways, but very fast. And they come at comedy in different ways and you just never know how it's going to work. I'm, you know, I'm George Burns. I'm, you know, I'm my dad to Mel Brooks. I tried to, you know, I'm the straight guy to hopefully get the best out of him. And it's pretty easy when you're working with them, I'm telling you, it's pretty easy. They come prepared to get good wood on the ball every time.

[Ed Helms]

Amen. You guys have incredible chemistry and it is so fun to see it still, just to see those sparks flying 40 years later. It just, it's just as alive as it ever was. It's, it's so, so great.

Now, last question. What are you listening to or reading right now? And, and, or what's next on your list?

[Michael McKean]

I'm reading the new Mark Twain autobiography, which is this thick and amazing. Not autobiography, I'm sorry, the new.

[Ed Helms]

He's, he just put out a new one?

[Michael McKean]

No, no, not the new. And it's not an autobiography. It's Ron Chernow's biography.

[Ed Helms]

Oh, fabulous.

[Michael McKean]

And it is, it's, it's amazing. And what am I listening to? I'm listening to a couple of things. I got a book called Consciousness. What is Consciousness? This is fascinating. And so I listen to it at night. It puts me right to sleep.

[Rob Reiner]

I can tell.

[Michael McKean]

It's a really good book. But I lose consciousness.

[Rob Reiner]

It should be called Unconsciousness.

[Michael McKean]

Unconsciousness, yes. Yeah, but it's a cool book. And yeah, I, I listen to, I listen to a lot of different kinds of things. I'll tell you my favorite guy. There's a guy named Bill Homewood. Like home H O M E Wood Homewood, British guy. And he, he did a 52 hour unabridged reading of the Count of Monte Cristo.

[Ed Helms]

Whoa.

[Michael McKean]

It's one of the greatest things I've ever heard. It was. It's like, I can't wait to get in the car and just drive nowhere just so I can listen to this and do nothing but this. He's brilliant. He also did the Three Musketeers and Tom Jones and a couple of other things like that.

[Ed Helms]

Wait, how long did that take you to listen to?

[Michael McKean]

52 hours.

[Rob Reiner]

Michael, do you listen to books more than you read them or do you read more than you listen.

[Michael McKean]

I'm starting to listen more than I read, but I still love to just park myself with a book. But at night, you know, if I'm kind of trying to chill out, I'll plug into something like that. And there's a woman named Sinead Dixon who does most of Dickens, and it's amazing.

[Rob Reiner]

Sinead Dickens. She should call herself Amazing.

[Michael McKean]

And Miriam Margulies also does a great. Does a lot of great Dixon stuff, though.

[Rob Reiner]

You know, I love blues music. I love country music, I love bluegrass. I like to watch Instagram and what I like about it, because I'm old, they. You know, in TikTok, they'll give you two seconds, three, they'll give you a full performance of somebody. So if, like, Billy Strings comes on, I'm like, ooh, good. If you're a whole Billy Strings number or if it's Linda Ronstadt harmonizing with Dolly Parton and Emmylou Harris, you know, I'll listen to all that. Or Chris Stapleton, whoever it is. And I love. I will just listen to those kind of things. That's what I love. Listen.

[Kal Penn]

Listening to.

[Rob Reiner]

And any bull and any blues guitarist will go from one to the other.

[Ed Helms]

Amazing. Yeah, we're. We're in the same sort of musical loops there. I love it. Any audiobooks or books right now?

[Rob Reiner]

You see, I'm in the midst of finishing up a book based on this podcast that I did last year about the JFK assassination. It's called who Killed JFK? We did it on iHeartRadio with Soledad. With Soledad O'. Brien. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it got like 10 million downloads, and people liked it. So Simon and Schuster asked us if we would write a book. So we. We started working on it. The two guys that I work with on the podcast. So I've been writing on that. So I still. I'm reading. There's a book that came out about what happened to Dorothy Kilgowan. And so I'm just keep reading more and more stuff about that. Right now. I'm kind of still immersed in that world.

[Ed Helms]

Wow, that's a. That's a good one. That's a juicy one. Well, Rob Reiner, Michael McKeon, it was truly excellent having you on. Earsay. Thank you so much for coming on.

[Rob Reiner]

Thanks for having us.

[Michael McKean]

Yeah, thank you, Ed. Thanks for having us on.

[Rob Reiner]

Yeah, absolutely. Anytime.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah, I wish we could. Wish we'd just be hanging out, having a beer right now.

[Rob Reiner]

We're allowed to.

[Kal Penn]

You're.

[Rob Reiner]

I'm gonna.

[Michael McKean]

I'm gonna continue hanging out. You just might not be there.

[Ed Helms]

You'll just keep talking into your microphone for the next 45 minutes. Well, truly a pleasure, guys.

[Michael McKean]

Thanks a lot, Ed.

[Rob Reiner]

Thanks a lot.

[Kal Penn]

Well, that was awesome.

[Ed Helms]

This was, like, such a dream for me to just pick their brains and hear so many of the stories. As a person that works in comedy, I just love to hear how other people's brains work.

[Kal Penn]

Yeah.

[Ed Helms]

And, like, and how their process works. And especially material that I've appreciated so deeply for so many years just to get under the hood and just see how that sausage is made.

[Kal Penn]

It's really a privilege, especially when it makes you laugh.

[Rob Reiner]

Yeah.

[Kal Penn]

I just find such joy in being able to go into the brains of other weirdos in the best way possible.

[Ed Helms]

As a weirdo.

[Kal Penn]

Yes, exactly.

[Ed Helms]

It's fun to learn about other weirdos.

[Kal Penn]

Totally.

[Ed Helms]

And you and I are very proud to be weirdos.

[Kal Penn]

Yes, of course.

[Ed Helms]

It's a badge of honor. All right, well, you can find the new audiobook, A Fine Line Between Stupid and Clever, the Story of Spinal Tap. Audible.

Thank you for tuning in to this episode of Irsay, the Audible and I Heart Audiobook Club.

[Kal Penn]

On the next episode, we're diving into a supernatural romance co authored by Nicholas Sparks and M. Night Shyamalan. There's a haunted house, a ghost love story, a mystery that must be solved. You don't want to miss this.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah, that sounds quite saucy.

[Kal Penn]

Yeah. Extremely.

[Rob Reiner]

Yeah.

[Ed Helms]

Well, we'll see you then. And if you had fun with us today, consider following the show wherever you listen.

Hearsay. The Audible and I Heart Audio Book Club is a production of iHeart's Ruby Studio. We're your hosts, Ed Helms and Cal Penn.

[Kal Penn]

Our executive producer is Matt Schultz with theme music and post production by Marcus Begala for Ruby Studio.

[Ed Helms]

Our managing EP is Matt Romano. Our EP of post production is Matt Stillo. Our production coordinator is Abby Aguilar.

[Kal Penn]

And of course, a big thank you to our friends at Audible. Don't forget, you can listen to what we're listening to on the Audible app [e-mail] Sign up for a free 30 day Audible trial and your first audiobook is free. Visit Audible.com.

Until next time.

[Ed Helms]

Thanks for listening.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Explore anything with Audible Music Movies, Exploding Drummers. Audible excites the imagination with stories that help you escape the everyday into a world where there's a fine line between stupid and clever. The stars of this Is Spinal Tap tell the story of the movie and the band. Listen to this episode's Audiobook Club. Pick a fine line between stupid and clever on Audible. New customers can sign up for a 30 day free trial. Visit audible.comearsay fineline today this is an iHeart podcast.

[Rob Reiner]

Guaranteed human.