Live at LA Talks with Tig Notaro

Summary

Podcast Summary: SNAFU with Ed Helms – “Live at LA Talks with Tig Notaro”

Podcast: SNAFU with Ed Helms
Host: Ed Helms
Guest: Tig Notaro
Release Date: March 25, 2026
Episode Theme: A live, comedic deep-dive into Ed Helms’s book on history’s greatest screw-ups, the research and process behind it, and the enduring joy (and lessons) of humanity’s blunders.

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Episode Overview

This special episode features Ed Helms in a live event at LA Talks, joined by his longtime friend and comedic partner Tig Notaro. The discussion centers around Ed’s new book, "SNAFU: The Definitive Guide to History's Greatest Screw-Ups," which serves as a companion to the SNAFU podcast. The conversation is both an exploration of history’s wildest fiascos and an extended hangout brimming with banter, Southern warmth, and signature deadpan humor from both Helms and Notaro.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Casual Banter and Signature Humor

• The episode opens with playful rapport, highlighting the duo’s chemistry. Tig jokes about stains on her pants, inventing a “What’s On Your Pants?” game show (04:36), while Ed admits wearing the same pants for eight days to finish the book tour.
• Tig: “What’s on your pants? Crowd goes mild.” (04:56)
• Ed: “This is the last stop on my book tour.” (05:12)
• They bounce between self-deprecating humor and affectionate ribbing, setting a light tone for deeper dives into the book and podcast.

Origins of the SNAFU Podcast and Book

• Ed shares his journey toward creating a podcast that stood apart from the typical interview format, focusing instead on historical blunders that are equal parts fascinating and funny.
  Quote:
  • Ed: “History is a fun thing that I’ve always loved to just go down these little rabbit holes...” (09:19)
• The process for both the podcast and the book is described as intensive:
  • “It just turned into a really intense project with deep research and heavy audio production.” (09:43)
• The book collects 31 bite-sized stories of historical snafus, built on research that didn’t always fit the podcast format.

Research and Writing Process

• Short-Form Storytelling:
  • Each chapter is a self-contained story, making for a less overwhelming writing process compared to a novel or memoir.
    Quote:
    • Ed: “It was not overwhelming … it caters well to the way my brain works.” (17:19)
• Collaborative Effort:
  • Thanks the research team, stressing collective effort in uncovering obscure history (18:02).
• Surprising Discoveries:
  • Many stories in the book are intentionally lesser-known.
    Quote:
    • Ed: “Every story is like, holy shit, that happened. Like, that's real." (19:25)

Favorite Snafus from the Book

1. The USA’s Plan to Nuke the Moon (Project A119)

• In the 1950s, the US considered detonating a nuclear warhead on the moon to show strength during the Cold War.
• “Any tiny malfunction or miscalculation could … result in the nuclear warhead slingshotting ... and just coming right back at us.” (21:55)
• The intended ‘spectacle’ would’ve been “a little gray dust cloud”—like something out of Looney Tunes.
  Quote:
  • Ed: “This is a Looney Tunes idea. Like you could see Acme on the side of this warhead.” (22:58)

2. The CIA’s Cat Spy Project (Acoustic Kitty)

• The CIA surgically implanted microphones into cats to spy on enemies—project failed upon discovering that cats can’t be trained. Quote:
  • Ed: “The only thing that came from that entire research effort was the startling discovery that you can’t train cats.” (29:15)
• Tig: “As a cat lover, that was one of my favorites, I must say.” (28:55)

3. Jimmy Carter and the First Nuclear Meltdown

• 1950s meltdown in Deep River, Ontario: a 28-year-old Jimmy Carter leads the high-stakes relay mission to contain the reactor, spending only 90 seconds at a time near the core.
• Carter’s urine was radioactive for three months after the incident.
  Quote:
  • Tig: “That’s a badass.” (34:12)
  • Ed: “Give it up for Jimmy Carter.” (34:34)

Research Sources & Uncovering Lost Stories

• Many snafus live in obscurity until unearthed by dogged journalists or accidental archival finds.
• The story of the moon nuke plan surfaced only due to Carl Sagan’s early career application (26:36).
• The internet, old history books, and niche research leads are key sources. Quote:
  • Ed: “When you just start looking for snafus, they bubble up.” (27:38)

Patterns and Lessons from History’s Mistakes

• Humanity Repeats Mistakes:
  • Ed openly admits: “We just don’t learn from history at all, which is so sad and dumb.” (35:15)
• Finding Solace in Past Chaos:
  • While history is full of nerve-racking events, looking back can actually be “kind of nice”—evidence that turmoil isn’t new and we tend to muddle through. Quote:
  • “It’s nice to be reminded that we’ve been there before ... that they have gotten through these moments.” (36:12)

Audience & Community Engagement

• Tig playfully suggests everyone she meets tries to pitch their own family’s/region’s snafus (38:20).
• Ed: “A few people actually on this book have been like, did you hear about this?” (38:20)

SNAFU Book and Podcast Continuations

• Audience wonders about future books and podcast topics—Ed hints at themed sequels (sports, time periods), and more contemporary snafus.
  Quote:
  • Ed: “Right now we’re sitting in ... a big old sea of snafus." (39:57)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Casual Banter:
  • Tig: “What’s on your pants? Crowd goes mild.” (04:56)
• On the Book’s Bathroom Appropriateness:
  • Ed: "It gets things moving. That one chapter is equivalent to 9 grams of fiber.” (12:17)
• On Government Transparency:
  • Ed: “That’s anti American. To point out that, that the CIA tried to surgically implant microphones into cats ears…” (28:39)
• On Teaching from Mistakes:
  • Ed: “We just don’t learn from history at all, which is so sad and dumb.” (35:15)
• On Jimmy Carter’s Heroics:
  • Tig: “Okay. Make fun of Jimmy Carter all day long, but have you had radioactive urine?” (34:13)

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Noteworthy Timestamps

• [04:36] – Humorous "What's On Your Pants?" icebreaker
• [08:33] – Tig asks about the genesis of the SNAFU book and podcast
• [12:44] – The meaning behind “SNAFU” and its origins
• [17:19] – Ed explains why short chapters made book-writing manageable
• [21:20] – Nuking the Moon: The Cold War’s wildest idea
• [28:55] – CIA’s failed cat spy project
• [30:00-34:21] – Jimmy Carter and the first nuclear meltdown; radioactive urine
• [35:15] – Lessons and patterns from snafus
• [38:20] – Collecting stories from the public; community engagement
• [39:57] – Ed and Tig speculate on sequels and future topics
• [40:26] – Ed is asked about his own personal snafus (demurs)
• [43:34] – Would The Office have a “snafu” episode? Ed imagines Michael Scott steering the “Ever Given”
• [44:58] – Tig recalls her cameo on The Office
• [45:37] – Ed previews SNAFU season 4 with more guest-driven storytelling
• [49:14] – Audience Q: WWII snafus
• [50:19] – Audience Q: Why Tig as interviewer? Sparks comedic riffing on their friendship

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Final Takeaways

• The episode is a lively, affectionate, and humorous behind-the-scenes look at researching, writing, and laughing at history’s most outlandish mistakes.
• Ed and Tig’s banter brings the subject matter down to earth, making history enjoyable even when it’s about humanity at its most clueless.
• Whether it’s nukes aimed at the moon, spy cats, or nuclear-reactive urine, the lesson is: history is wild, funny, and ever-relevant.
• The SNAFU book is meant as much for bathroom breaks as for the beach or bedside—each story a curiosity grenade to spice up any social gathering.
• Ed hints at future projects, always more SNAFUs to unpack, and the satisfaction of using past disasters to infuse a little hope and a lot of laughs into our present uncertainty.

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For more SNAFU tales or to order Ed’s book, visit snafu-book.com.

Transcript

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[Ed Helms]

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[Ed Helms]

Hello, SNAFU listeners. Ed Helms here. I mean, who else is it going to be?

[Venmo Advertiser]

I'm the host.

[Ed Helms]

This is my podcast. So yeah, it's Ed Helms, and I've got another really fun surprise for you. This week I'm sharing the live recording of one of my favorite stops on last year's book tour, where I was essentially roasted to a crisp by the one and only Tig Notaro. Now, Tig isn't just a brilliant comedian, actor, writer and podcast host. She's also a longtime friend. We go way back, and I've always admired her completely singular comedic voice. She has this magical rhythm to her delivery, like a deceptively gentle slow burn style to her jokes, and then these punchlines that just hit you in the gut so hard she can leave A massive audience doubled over without hitting, ever raising her voice. You've probably seen her in her Netflix stand up special, Happy to Be Here. Or her TV series, One Mississippi. Or stealing entire scenes in shows like Star Discovery, the Office, or perhaps even the movie that Tig and I did together called Together Together Now. Sharing the stage with Tig at LA Live Talks was an absolute blast. We dug into the stories from my book, the Definitive Guide to History's Greatest Screw up, talked about the research and production process for the book, and even tossed around a few bold predictions for the future. So listen in and don't forget, you can order the book or the [e-mail] or wherever you get your books. So sit back and enjoy my conversation with the incredible Tig Notaro.

Can you guys give us a minute? We're gonna just catch up.

[Tig Notaro]

Didn't see you there. Do you know when I get started on the questions that I printed out?

[Ed Helms]

Do I know what.

[Tig Notaro]

When I should get started on this? Like, should we just chat casually for a minute?

[Ed Helms]

I feel like that's appropriate.

[Tig Notaro]

Okay.

[Ed Helms]

Some casual chatter, and then, honestly, don't ever get to this stuff.

[Tig Notaro]

Okay. All right.

[Ed Helms]

That's the. Let's get real. Let's get under the hood.

[Tig Notaro]

Let's get real, real fast.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

Like, what's on my pants?

[Ed Helms]

Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

I realized on my way here tonight that I had a stain on my pants.

[Ed Helms]

And I just asked backstage if she knows what's on her pants.

[Tig Notaro]

She doesn't know, but I did decide it would be the name of a really good talk show or game show.

[Ed Helms]

Game show.

[Tig Notaro]

Yes. What's on your pants? Crowd goes mild. Great. Well, what's on your pants?

[Ed Helms]

So much. I've been wearing these pants basically every day for the last eight days. This is the last stop on my book tour.

[Tig Notaro]

Congrats.

[Ed Helms]

Thank you. And thank you, Tig, for doing this and being here.

[Tig Notaro]

It is my pleasure. I'll go anywhere for you, my dear.

[Ed Helms]

Well, fantastic. All the way to Culver City.

[Tig Notaro]

That's right. To the straight area of town.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

Should we get started?

[Ed Helms]

Why don't I ask you all the questions?

[Tig Notaro]

Absolutely.

[Ed Helms]

How much did you love my book?

[Tig Notaro]

I loved it so much that when I had time, I read parts of it.

[Ed Helms]

Amazing.

[Tig Notaro]

Yes.

[Ed Helms]

You read the excerpts, the blurbs?

[Tig Notaro]

No, I read way more than that.

[Ed Helms]

Oh, cool.

[Tig Notaro]

Yes. But we'll get into that.

[Ed Helms]

All right, good.

[Tig Notaro]

What else do you want to ask me?

[Ed Helms]

Where'd you grow up?

[Tig Notaro]

Mississippi and Texas. But I feel like you probably knew some of that.

[Ed Helms]

I know, but this is for them. Oh, I'm getting. I'm just.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah, I forgot that I wasn't just here to talk to my friend Ed.

[Ed Helms]

Mississippi and Texas, and I'm from Georgia, so.

[Tig Notaro]

Georgia.

[Ed Helms]

We're bringing a real Southern. Some. We're just bringing some Southern vibes.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah, we are.

[Ed Helms]

California, which is.

[Tig Notaro]

That's right.

[Ed Helms]

That's what we do.

[Tig Notaro]

Um, I'm out of questions.

[Ed Helms]

You're out already?

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I'm out.

[Tig Notaro]

I am out.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah, because you didn't even read anything on. On that paper.

[Tig Notaro]

Well, I realized this was my grocery list for Gailson's ham. That's not true. Can I tell you, speaking of Mississippi, my cousin, who is A grown woman, 29, married, has a child a couple of years ago, and she's not. And I know people here, Mississippi. And you picture whatever you're picturing. There are civilized areas and people. My family is one of them. My cousin went to college. She went to business school. Found out a couple of years ago, ham is not an animal. She thought, like chicken and fish. There were hams running around.

[Ed Helms]

They don't teach that in business school.

[Tig Notaro]

No, no, they teach.

[Ed Helms]

Where did she go to business school in Mississippi?

[Tig Notaro]

No, in New Orleans.

[Ed Helms]

Okay.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah.

[Ed Helms]

So that is one of the few meets that has, like, multiple names. Ham. Bacon. There are all these things that aren't what it is.

[Tig Notaro]

I'm totally two.

[Ed Helms]

Well, also pig.

[Tig Notaro]

Pork. Pork.

[Ed Helms]

Ham. Pork. Bacon. Pig.

[Tig Notaro]

What'd you say? Beef.

[Ed Helms]

That's not a pig, but it is not a cow. Also, her point is that it's not cow.

[Tig Notaro]

Right? I was gonna say, are you from Mississippi? All right, well, let's get in to these questions.

[Ed Helms]

All right, Ed, I'm an onion. Just start peeling the layers. It's gonna get real.

[Tig Notaro]

All right, if it's gonna get real, then tell us a little bit about why you chose to write this companion book for the Snafu Snafu podcast.

[Ed Helms]

Wow, I'm so glad.

[Tig Notaro]

What spawned your interest?

[Ed Helms]

What a great question.

[Tig Notaro]

In this type, I'm a slow delivery. I'm still asking the question, what spawned your interest in this type of history project in the first place?

[Ed Helms]

That feels like a question. You wrote, you use words like spawned in a lot of regular snafu.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah, I always say snafu.

[Ed Helms]

Every time we talk on the phone, you're like, what spawned this? What spawned this?

[Tig Notaro]

What spawned this snafu?

[Ed Helms]

Basically, everybody does a podcast.

[Tig Notaro]

Mm.

[Ed Helms]

Including you.

[Tig Notaro]

Yep. It's called Handsome. Check it out.

[Ed Helms]

Check it out. And there's so many great podcasts out there. And a lot of them are just interview kind of style shows which, which I love. And I was consuming a ton of these shows as a fan, and I was like, do I fit into this podcast space somewhere? And if I do, what does it look like? I don't. I didn't really want to do an interview show because I felt like there were just so many of them out there. And it's like, well, history is a fun thing that I've always loved to just kind of go down these little rabbit holes of looking into stuff. Our show, this show, Rutherford Falls, was very kind of history oriented. I played an historian who owned a museum in that show. And I just, yeah, it was something that felt very organic to me. But then it's like, well, I still want it to be funn. And then it was like, well, what's funny in history? The snafus. The car crashes of history that we can't turn away from. Those will be fun. Like, that'll be a fun thing to do a podcast about. So we partnered with the great people at Film Nation and their podcast department and set to work on this thing and it just turned into a really intense project with deep research and heavy audio production.

[Tig Notaro]

And were you expecting that, the deep research or did you not account for that?

[Ed Helms]

The first season I think we were very ambitious, but it worked like it really clicked and we kind of figured out got a rhythm on how to do this. Anyway, in doing all that research, you just accumulate basically like a pile of these crazy stories. And some of them don't warrant, like the full podcast treatment. It's just. It doesn't have quite as much material there, but it's still really funny or interesting. And those just started to pile up and it was like, all right, this is fodder for a book. Yeah, it's like it's all right here. It's just sort of like quick. Each chapter is a different snafu, so it's not nearly as deep a dive. And the stories are just kind of quick and fun and easy, which is part of what makes this book such a fantastic gift for Mother's Day or Father's Day. You can pick it up and just go anywhere and find a 5 to 10 page little fun story. It's basically a book of short stories. There's 31 snafus in there. It's a great beach read. It's perfect for your nightstand.

You can read it in the bathroom.

[Tig Notaro]

Really? Yes. You know of people that have read it in the bathroom?

[Ed Helms]

I'm just saying you can. I haven't asked people, but I have been told that it gets things moving. That one chapter is equivalent to 9 grams of fiber.

[Tig Notaro]

So would it be the longest enema

[Ed Helms]

ever given? So there is a chapter about the. The ever given, which is a container ship that was wedged in the Suez Canal. That's one of the more recent ones that you might remember.

[Tig Notaro]

And, yeah, I learned. I didn't realize this until I was doing my semi deep dive on the book that SNAFU stands for Situation Normal All Fucked. Right? Yeah, you can say.

[Ed Helms]

You can also, you think, well, if what you silently said is what I think you said, then, yeah, I think you're right.

[Tig Notaro]

Are you guys okay with me saying the F word fucked? But you can also put fouled up. That's how you kind of clean it up a bit.

[Ed Helms]

Oh, okay.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah. I also learned that. Not from your book or podcast, but when I was researching Snafu and Snafus, I did, you know, I dove in here and there and I. Yeah, I just.

[Ed Helms]

That's a good one. That is a good one for when I take this into schools to be

[Tig Notaro]

able to say, all fouled up.

[Ed Helms]

All fouled up.

[Tig Notaro]

Now, speaking of schools, were you into history as a kid?

[Ed Helms]

As a little kid, we had a huge collection of National Geographic magazines. And I just was always so into that I would just, like, pull them out and thumb through and just be. It was such a vessel for curiosity, and it made me really want to be Indiana Jones because.

[Tig Notaro]

How did that go?

[Ed Helms]

It hasn't worked out yet. Also, I don't think it's. I think that, like, his version of that profession is now frowned upon, but at the time, it was just adventurous and curious and wonderful. But, yeah, those National Geographics and also the World Book Encyclopedia, did anybody have those in their homes? I like, I just loved those things. You could pull them off and just be like, aardvarks. Like, what's up with aardvarks?

[Tig Notaro]

So you started on page one.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah. Right.

[Tig Notaro]

Because that's the double A, right?

[Ed Helms]

Sure. Yeah. But you could also just be like, Zanzibar, where, like, what's the deal? What's the population? Where is it on the map? And anything that you wanted. I just. I couldn't believe that we had, like, this book set that could just tell me anything I wanted to know. But the podcast and the book have become these, what I hope and feel are very productive applications of that curiosity and interest.

[Tig Notaro]

All right, where were we? So we all heard in our bios that, I mean. Or yours Especially, I mean, you've done a lot. You've been an actor, a podcaster, a writer, comedy writer, all of these things. I mean, you know, musician. But we're not here to talk about that. Guys, settle down. We're not talking about that. How did all of those experiences inform writing this book? How, like, everything that you've done, here we are now, today, you are an author.

[Ed Helms]

I do kind of feel like the SNAFU podcast was a culmination of sorts, because it's so deep, and there are stories in the podcast that are very heavy and poignant and stirring, and that's not something I really expected coming up through comedy that I would be diving into. And so that sort of just, I think, opened my mind about just creatively, like, what would be, like, what else I can do and how else. Like, the book just felt like a very. Like a natural step from that, and I've really enjoyed it. Yeah, I think there's gonna be more.

[Tig Notaro]

You enjoyed the process of writing?

[Ed Helms]

Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

How long did it take you to write? I wrote a book. It took me four years. And you can read it in an afternoon next to the pool.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

How long did yours take?

[Ed Helms]

Like, a year and a half. And there was. But the nice thing about this book is that it was not overwhelming to work on because it's such short chunks. So each chapter is. Is a. Is a story, and that. That caters well to, like, the way my brain works. Like, I think writing a novel would just be terrifying and overwhelming. And even writing, like, a memoir feels or something along those lines. I don't know anything like a narrative that's, like 2, 300 pages feels. Maybe I'll get there eventually, but right now that feels, like, scary.

[Tig Notaro]

It doesn't sound like he'll get there.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

Based on the ADHD and.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah, all that stuff. And also the nice thing, you know, I had a lot of research support on this book because we built such a great team on this on the podcast. And so it was, you know, it really was a collective effort kind of organizing this material and getting the. Getting the research materials together. And I just was working with great, great people pulling the information together.

[Tig Notaro]

So in that research, were there any surprises that stuck? I'm sure there were so many surprises, but any that really stuck out to you when you, like, really, you know, Because I'm sure you have some. Some idea maybe of what one particular story or snafu is about, and then you're like, here's the twist in a major way.

[Ed Helms]

I'm gonna Back up or sort of like go high altitude for a second. Because hopefully all the stories in the book are that for everybody. Because in. And again, starting with the podcast, the idea, like, I didn't wanna tell stories that. That people know. I wanted to tell history that feels new or fresh or kind of like rediscovering things. And in the podcast, it was like trying to find stories that have a lot of power and impact but have been largely forgotten in the sort of popular memory. And. And that's what. That same thing I brought to the. To this sort of like, that was the art, sort of like organizing principle in building the. The content for the book. And. And because of that, like, every story is surprising. Every story is like, holy shit, that happened. Like, that's real. There's a few in the book that you probably have heard of. Like the. Ever given that in the. Everybody knew when that container ship got wedged in the Suez Canal.

[Tig Notaro]

And what is your favorite story?

[Ed Helms]

Well, they're all my babies, you know, so it's hard to pick. But I'll tell you two. There's one that I love.

[Tig Notaro]

Just one.

[Ed Helms]

Okay. There's another one that's absolutely insane, which is in. In the 1950s. This is the Cold War. So one thing that emerges when you read the book, the Cold War did not bring out the best in us. We were very scared and made a lot of really terrible decisions. This is one of them. So a plan was hatched to shoot a nuclear warhead at the moon. Now, why would you want to do that? Well, the thinking was that if we can hit the moon with a nuclear warhead, the Soviets will see that, and they'll be like, holy shit. And then I guess we win the Cold War. Because they're so scared, because they're like, oh, my God, the Americans can hit the moon with a warhead. Like, we're done. Like, we can't. We just surrender? So they really thought that this would, like, kind of shut down the Cold War or scare the Soviets really badly. So they went really far down this road. They spent a lot of time and money researching this. Carl Sagan worked on this project. A young Carl Sagan. He likes planets, but he was part of this plan to actually shoot a world.

[Tig Notaro]

Millions of dollars went into this.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah. Untold millions.

[Tig Notaro]

Yes.

[Ed Helms]

They eventually realized that any tiny malfunction or miscalculation could very easily result in the nuclear warhead slingshotting around the gravitational field of the moon and just coming right back at us. The other thing they realized is that even if they hit the moon, you know, even if they actually were on target, that it wouldn't look like much. It would just be because I think the hope was like the Soviets would see this big like crater on the moon or see like a big explosion on the moon, but they realized that it would really just probably be kind of a little gray dust cloud you wouldn't really see very much. And that detail I love because that is literally Wile E. Coyote. Like that is every time Wile E. Coyote falls off a cliff, it's like poof. Just that little, that little dust cloud. And this is a Looney Tunes idea. Like you could see Acme on the side of this warhead. Very plausibly.

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[Venmo Advertiser]

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[Ed Helms]

a classic everyday snafu.

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Because with Venmo Stash you can get up to 5% cash back at your favorite brands. Just pick a bundle of your go tos to shop with your Venmo debit card and earn cash back at them and you're free to mix things up. You can easily swap out your bundle

[Ed Helms]

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[Tig Notaro]

You were saying before that you have this, you know, a lot of great researchers and you would have to. But where do researchers even begin to get this information?

[Ed Helms]

This is a good question.

[Tig Notaro]

Thank you.

[Ed Helms]

Because it's important to point out the only reason we know about that, the only reason we know about that nuclear warhead, shooting at the moon, that whole thing. The only reason we know is because one of Carl Sagan's biographers was researching him, looking through all of his old papers, and he had actually put this project on a fellowship application, like applying to something. Right, you know, right after grad school. And this researcher, this, you know, his biographer was like, I'm gonna put Carl Sagan aside for a second and look into this moon thing. And they, they uncovered it. And all that's to say, say that the only reason we know about any of this stuff is because of so many dogged journalists and writers and people that just have like, yes, for sure, huge round of applause. And because of that, like, when you just start looking for snafus, they bubble up. They're on Google. They're all, you know, they're in history books.

[Tig Notaro]

But yeah, like, where do you Google, like snafus? 1973.

[Ed Helms]

Yes. 1960s disasters, problems. I mean, it's like there are books, there are books that focus on these things that aren't funny and like, that are written by serious historians, unlike Me.

[Tig Notaro]

And has the government reached out, been like, do not call anybody.

[Ed Helms]

Shut up. No, but I actually feel like now like this book would piss Trump off because it's like honest about our history, which he is like, seems right. Like, doesn't it feel like we're in this moment where he's just like, don't say any bad stuff about us.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah.

[Ed Helms]

That's anti American. To point out that, that the CIA tried to surgically implant microphones into cats ears and then train the cats to go sit next to bad guys so you could hear. And the only thing, the only.

[Tig Notaro]

As a cat lover, that was one of my favorites, I must say. A microphone on a cat.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

Like sitting next to a bad guy.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah. And the only thing that came, that came from that entire like research effort was the startling discovery that you can't train cats.

[Tig Notaro]

And how much money went into that? You don't have that, right?

[Ed Helms]

Millions.

[Tig Notaro]

Millions, yes. Are there any other anecdotes that you would like to share? I mean, because it is like, it's like you were saying, an encyclopedia of aardvark to Zanzibar. There's so many. Was there a. Well, no, that would be. That's not a good question.

[Ed Helms]

I could tell you another one.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah.

[Ed Helms]

This one I love because it's not as absurd. It's actually some of the snafus in the book kind of have this silver lining of being a very obvious lesson that we learned culturally from it. Or, or there are heroes that emerge during snafus and this is one of those. Also in the 1950s, one of the first nuclear reactors is built in Deep River, Ontario, which is just up the Ottawa river from the city of Ottawa. And it's very early in nuclear technology. There's a very Homer Simpson series of mistakes that happen at this nuclear reactor. And a meltdown starts and it's a terrible accident. And this is the first nuclear reactor meltdown in human history. So nobody really knows what to do. They're freaking out. They call the US military and they're like, what do we do? Do you have anybody that can help us? And they're like, yeah, actually we have this 28 year old kid who's, who's, who's been working on our nuclear sub program. And he's extremely knowledgeable about all this stuff. He's a great leader. We're gonna send him up with a team to help you out. That was Jimmy Carter. Yeah. So that he became that. This is a story about a young Jimmy Carter. He runs up there, gets to Deep River, Ontario. The reactor's melting down. It's so radioactive that they can only spend. They can only be in close proximity to the reactor core for 90 seconds at a time, or else they'll have, like. They'll die of radiation poisoning.

[Tig Notaro]

So I know what ends up happening. You do, but go ahead.

[Ed Helms]

All right. Don't spoil it. Okay. So they. They build a replica of this reactor core on a nearby tennis court. So they start rehearsing this disassembly, and they drill it and they drill it and drill it until they've got this plan down perfectly. And then they start running in like a relay team of NASCAR pit crews. Just like 90 seconds at a time. They can only be in there, and every time they do something to the reactor core, they come outside and they do it to their replica as well so they can keep track of everything that's happening. Happening. It's a brilliant plan, and it keeps all of the workers healthy, and they save the reactor. There's still a partial meltdown. There's a lot of damage done, but they prevent, basically, a Chernobyl from happening that very easily could have been North America's Chernobyl. And I love this story because it's. I grew up in a Southern Democrat household. My dad was very politically engaged. And we loved Jimmy Carter. We always. He was like a venerated figure in our home. But I feel like, sadly, in sort of the popular memory, he's considered kind of wimpy, you know, even though he did a lot of really badass stuff, both as a president and especially in. As. He's one of the most productive post presidents we've ever had. And I think of him as a hero. I always have. And I've always resented this kind of popular sentiment that he's just sort of this wimpy, ineffective guy. But this is like a great little nugget of proof that he was a really courageous badass with serious leadership.

[Tig Notaro]

And I can really accentuate this point even more with a detail about this story, this snafu in your book, that when I said, I know what happens, this is what I'm talking about. His urine was radioactive for how long?

[Ed Helms]

Like three months Afterwards.

[Tig Notaro]

Afterwards.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

That's a badass.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

Okay. Make fun of Jimmy Carter all day long, but have you had radioactive urine?

[Ed Helms]

And they were very afraid that. That all these workers would not be able to have children. And Jimmy Carter had four very healthy children. He's a tough guy.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah. Yes. Yep.

[Ed Helms]

Give it up for Jimmy Carter.

[Tig Notaro]

Those are some of my favorite Live moments is when one person claps and nobody chimes in and it's just an awkward. And then you go, oh, did you feel like I should pull back? Nobody's joining. She's not even acknowledging that I'm talking to her.

[Ed Helms]

Ok,

[Tig Notaro]

what are some patterns that you observed and lessons studying snafus?

[Ed Helms]

The. Okay, so the. Well, one of the things that I don't think this is something that we sort of culturally would say we learned from this book, but the book reiterates it in a very powerful way, which is that we just don't learn from history at all, which is so sad and dumb. We're so dumb and we just do the dumbest stuff. But I do think there is a positive takeaway from really digging into these snafus. The more you look into these really dumb or kind of horrifying crazy events from history, it's very easy. Just when we're in this moment, like we're in right now. And this, I think, applies whatever your political stripes are, wherever you fall on the sort of conservative liberal spectrum. This moment that we're in feels volatile, it feels unstable. It feels a little like we're polarized. And there's just tremendous uncertainty about the future, which is just unsettling. Makes us anxious when we look back at crazy things in the past. It's actually kind of nice to be reminded that we've been there before. Like, people have been terrified at lots of times in the past and that at least all this stuff in this book. And like, most of the time there's some sense that we got through a thing or that we got to the other side and found some sense of equilibrium again. And so I don't mean to be, like, glib or Pollyannish about the moment that we're in right now, because I think it does feel legitimately scary in a lot of ways. And I don't know what will happen, but I do think looking back, it's nice to be just sort of reminded that we have felt this way before or previous generations have felt this way before and that they have gotten through these moments. And so maybe that gives a sense that there's a light at the end of the tunnel as well.

[Tig Notaro]

I mean, I agree, you know, as tough as things are and scary as things may feel, I mean, this is really extreme. But I go to, like, God, it used to be normal to, like, behead somebody back in the old, old timey times. And I'm like, we don't do that anymore. I'm also curious, like, There are so many amazing stories. How do you decide what to choose, what to put in your book, what to put in the podcast? And also, you must have people. Are people contacting you or stopping you on the street going, I have a story. I know I have some inside scoop on this thing.

[Ed Helms]

A few people actually on this book have been like, did you hear about this? Yeah, like random people.

[Tig Notaro]

And do you have a lot of conspiracy theorists that reach out to you?

[Ed Helms]

Not yet, I haven't. I'm sure.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah, I'm getting the vibe on it. Yeah. That guy, I looked right at him. There he is.

[Ed Helms]

You know, weirdly, I think just like, writing about real stuff that's crazy is weirdly, a little bit of a hedge against conspiracy theories because it's like, the research.

[Tig Notaro]

But they think that's real. Don't you?

[Ed Helms]

Yeah. Okay. That's the title of my next book.

[Tig Notaro]

I'm curious. I mean, you're obviously going to do another. You're going to do Snafu, too, right? The next book. Because there is, like, you said, so much going on.

[Ed Helms]

Well, it's such a fun space to play in. It feels like there's so many different kinds of ways to. Or different ways to frame snafus. We could do, like, a book about sports snafus or, you know, different time periods.

Medieval snafus.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah. You know, but I'm saying, like, you chronologically, you go through this, you know, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s. And I'm like, right now we're sitting in a bunch of. Thank you. We're sitting in the middle of a bunch of snafus. Potential snafus. More to come.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah, it does feel like we're swimming in just, like a big old sea of snafus right now.

[Tig Notaro]

So I'm seeing SNAFU 2, SNAFU 3,

[Ed Helms]

you know, all coming down the road just about the last, like, 100 days.

[Tig Notaro]

SNAFU 100.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

Have you ever. This is unrelated to your book, but just curious. Any personal snafus in your life that you'd like to share?

[Ed Helms]

So many, but not so many for public consumption. Wow.

[Tig Notaro]

So should we end there?

[Ed Helms]

Let's do in there. Because I do think we're going to get some audience questions. I think. I think it'd be nice to take some audience questions.

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[Ed Helms]

a classic everyday snafu.

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[Ed Helms]

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[Knix Advertiser]

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[Ed Helms]

If the Office had a historical snafu themed episode, which disaster would Michael Scott have proudly caused? Um, I mean, isn't that every episode of the Office? Like some horrible Disaster. I don't know. I feel like the ever given container ship getting wedged into the Suez Canal totally fits his particular kind of snafu. Yeah. His particular weaknesses. Cause that's such a. That accident was so mundane. Like, it was such a. It was like people in the wheelhouse of this ship, like kind of panicking, trying to figure out what to do. I mean, you can imagine an episode of the Office or something feeling like an Office episode unfolding in the wheelhouse of that ship as they're trying to adjust for the wind and then back up. But there's a guy behind him and somebody's yelling at the navigator. And the navigator is like, Oscar. And he's like, I don't know. This is the data. This is all I have. And then Dwight Schrude is freaking. He's like the engineer freaking out, like,

we're losing power, we're losing power.

It just. Yeah, the whole. That one feels. And Michael Scott is the skipper just like frozen with fear. I don't know.

[Tig Notaro]

This isn't a follow up question, but I will tell you, for those that don't know, I was on an episode of the Office and to this day I get recognized as that being my only credit, where people come up and be like, you're from the Office. And I was like, yeah, 13 years ago for one second. Yeah, it's insane how massive that show is, Ed. It's a bit of a preview question, but I wonder about one or two snaf foods that are on the list that you haven't done a deep dive into, but you're just dying to get into. Really curious about.

[Ed Helms]

Season four of the podcast is going to take a little bit of a different shape and I'm gonna have guests on tig. You're doing it whether you know it or not. You're coming on the show and I'm gonna tell them about Snafus and then we'll have just sort of fun kind of spinoff chats about it. But so a lot of things that maybe kind of didn't fit the book or the podcast framework, I think are gonna work really well for that. So that'll be things like the Donner Party and Ernest Shackleton's crazy attempt to cross and be the first to cross Antarctica in the early 1900s. That's an incredible story. What else? The Lusitania is one. The cruise ship that was sunk in the North Pacific by Germans. And

[Klarna Advertiser]

gosh,

[Ed Helms]

there's so many cool, crazy, weird stories, but that's a sampling.

[Tig Notaro]

Now, again, not really related to what we're talking about. No, I know you have two kids and I have two children as well. And at bedtime we have a joke where I say, come on, guys, let's get in bed. I'm gonna tell you some boring stories. And I tell them, like, mundane stories. Like, you know, I was pulling into the parking lot at the grocery store and they're just like, they fall asleep. And as we've been talking, I'm like, do you ever sit and tell your

[Ed Helms]

kids snafu stories, Horrible tragedies?

[Tig Notaro]

You should, I mean, leave the tragedy out because they'll snooze before.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah, no, not this stuff. Although one of my favorite bits in a movie is, does anyone remember the movie the Great Outdoors? Okay, so there's an amazing. It's such a dumb one person over

[Tig Notaro]

there don't remember it.

[Ed Helms]

There's such a dumb throwaway joke in that movie. But Dan Aykroyd tells. He has these creepy little twin daughters in the movie I have twins. He tells them the story. They're like, can you tell us a bedtime story? And he's like, yeah, sure. Okay. So he tells the story. It's basically like the military left a box in the woods and it turned out to have this creature that they'd done all these experiments on. And the box spilled and opened up and it came. This creature came out of the box and terrorized all these children in this little town. Are we good? And the two kids are like wide eyed. And then it cuts to the morning and the kids are still just sitting there. That's what I think most of these stories would do to my kids.

[Tig Notaro]

So they're not sitting on your laps going, daddy, tell us more.

[Ed Helms]

Tell us more about nuclear warheads and

[Tig Notaro]

the Cold War, radioactive urine.

[Ed Helms]

But I will say that you do raise a great point, which is that reading this book will make you a killer at dinner parties because you will have so many fun, quick little zinger stories that you can just drop and they're funny and people will think you're smart.

[Tig Notaro]

I've been sitting here honestly thinking, wow, Ed is a smart guy.

[Audience Member]

Hi. So I'm a battlefield guide. I work overseas in Europe and we all love the podcast so much. We use a lot the reference of Fidel Castro with those assassinations and how so many people are shocked about Hitler and all those failed assassination attempts. So we're wondering from overseas if you've addressed it a little bit about World War II, but would you ever go more into Second World War? First World War snafus. Because there's just so many to name.

[Ed Helms]

Oh, wow. The World Wars. Just a cavalcade of snafus. There's so much written about those. They're so heavily researched. And that's kind of. Again, outside of where I've been the most charged up with my curiosity. The things that have fallen out of popular memory. But the Lusitania is a crazy World War II story.

[Audience Member]

Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

I've seen you both. Some of your work.

[Knix Advertiser]

What's the relationship between you two?

[Tig Notaro]

And why her?

[Knix Advertiser]

To interview you tonight on this particular topic.

[Tig Notaro]

Lovers. Ex lovers.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

But good question. Why me? How rude. Yeah. What the hell am I doing here? I should be telling my kids boring stories.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

I failed three grades and dropped out of high school. I have a seventh grade education.

[Ed Helms]

But you're smarter than most people I know.

[Tig Notaro]

Next question. No, how did we meet? I'm trying to remember the first from the comedy scene. Gelson's. Thank you. I mean, the comedy world. Largo. The venue here in town. At Largo. We've done. I did the Office. We also did a movie together.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

I don't know. Oh, where'd she go?

[Ed Helms]

It's a bit of a. It's. Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

Yes. Why her?

[Ed Helms]

You have. I guess. I don't know why I like hanging out with you, Tig. Because you're not very nice to me.

[Tig Notaro]

Right.

[Ed Helms]

We did an interview when we were promoting a movie we did together where

I think you just.

You kept telling the reporter how stupid my face was.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah. To translate that. It's because he's so funny and silly, and he makes these little smirky faces when he delivers. You know, he's so unassuming and subtle, and then, boom. Right out of his stupid face is the funniest thing you'll hear.

[Ed Helms]

That's actually very sweet. You're one of the only people that's ever complimented. You called my comedy subtle, and I appreciate that.

[Tig Notaro]

Well, no, you just have a subtle vibe about, you know, when. When we're chilling and whatever, and then you'll. And then you'll do. But also when we did that movie, like all of your. That's where it came from. Because when we were doing. The director said. And now Ed just, you know, riff and do some things. And he just was delivering all these different improv lines and face expressions, and I was like, this stupid face. That's where it came from. That is where it came from. It's when you started riffing and your face went nuts.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah. That was fun.

[Tig Notaro]

But we still don't know why I'm here. Next question. Have you thought about turning one of the stories into a movie?

[Ed Helms]

Yes, and that's a. There's concerted effort on that front with a couple of these. I think someone actually had the idea to do the book. Does anyone remember History of the World, the Mel Brooks movie? Like that's such a funny compendium of basically just comedy sketches. And you could do all of these chapters as comedy sketches too. So I don't know. There's a few things hopefully in the Hopper and then a few very abstract ideas.

[Tig Notaro]

Is there a role for me?

[Ed Helms]

No.

[Tig Notaro]

I guess that is the end of the evening here, isn't it?

[Ed Helms]

Give it up for Tignas Haro.

[Tig Notaro]

Ladies and gentlemen, give it up for Mr. Ed Helms.

[Ed Helms]

SNAFU is a production of iHeart podcasts and SNAFU Media, a partnership between Film Nation Entertainment and Pacific Electric Picture Company. Our post production studio is Gilded Audio. Our executive producers are me, Ed Helms, Mike Falbo, Glenn Basner, Andy Kim, Whitney Donaldson and Dylan Fagan. This episode was produced by Alyssa Martino and Tori Smith. Our video editor is Jared Smith. Technical direction and engineering from Nick Dooley. Our creative executive is Brett Harris. Logo and branding by the Collected Works Legal review from Dan Welch, Megan Halson and Caroline Johnson. Special thanks to Isaac Dunham, Adam Horne, Lane Klein and everyone at iHeart podcasts, but especially Will Pearson, Kerry Lieberman, Nikki Etor, Nathan Otosky and Alex Corral. While I have you, don't forget to pick up a copy of my book, SNAFU the Definitive Guide to History Greatest Screw Ups. It's available now from any book retailer. Just go to snafu-book.com thanks for listening and see you next week. Using Venmo without cash back is like

[Venmo Advertiser]

leaving your wallet open in a wind tunnel. Pick the right card, the Venmo debit card and let the cash back roll in. It's not a financial miracle, just avoiding

[Ed Helms]

a classic everyday snafu.

[Venmo Advertiser]

Because with Venmo Stash you can get up to 5% cash back at your favorite brands. Just pick a bundle of your go tos to shop with your Venmo debit card and earn cash back at them. And you're free to mix things up. You can easily swap out your bundle

[Ed Helms]

of brands every 30 days. Earn more cash when you do more with Stash.

[Venmo Advertiser]

Venmo stash terms and exclusions apply. Max $100 cashback per month. See Terms at Venmo Me Stash terms.

[Tig Notaro]

Hear that?

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[Announcer]

This is an I heart podcast.

[Tig Notaro]

Guaranteed human.