S4E1: Jenna Fisher, Angela Kinsey, and the Lost Nuke

Summary

SNAFU with Ed Helms

S4E1: Jenna Fischer, Angela Kinsey, and the Lost Nuke

Released: October 8, 2025

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Episode Overview

In the season four premiere of SNAFU, host Ed Helms is joined by his former The Office castmates and current Office Ladies podcast hosts, Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey. Together, they unpack one of history’s wildest military blunders: the story of the “lost nuke”—a 1965 incident where the U.S. Navy accidentally dropped a hydrogen bomb off the coast of Japan, then covered it up for years. The conversation weaves personal SNAFU stories, signature friendly banter, and real historical outrage, all in the show’s signature blend of history lesson, group therapy, and hangout pod.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Catching Up & “The Office” Nostalgia

(02:05–09:22)

• Ed, Jenna, and Angela reminisce about their days filming The Office and how their close-knit, collaborative environment felt “like a little bubble,” fostering both creative magic and intimate, mundane moments.
  • Jenna: “I miss being silly with you. Like, we would get so silly.” (03:47)
  • Ed: “Fans don’t always understand… our experience making the show is actually this whole tapestry of small moments.” (03:58)
• Unique experiences of joining the show, particularly Ed’s “gentle entry” during a hot period (season 3).
  • Ed: "All of my butterflies and anxiety just washed out so quickly because everyone...was so lovely. Right out of the gate." (08:06)

Personal SNAFU Stories

(09:03–13:15)

• Jenna shares a high school mishap: Flipping her desk and possibly breaking her arm in front of a cute classmate—her “teen movie meet-cute gone wrong.” (09:26-11:07)
• Angela recalls peacocking for her neighbor—without pants: “I was so into my Esprit top that I forgot to put on the bottoms of the outfit.” (12:34)

Introducing the “Lost Nuke” SNAFU

(13:26–15:59)

• Ed tees up the main story: The 1965 USS Ticonderoga “broken arrow" incident—a term the military uses (euphemistically) for losing a nuclear weapon.
  • Angela: “Now I know why they call it broken arrows… If you say we have 32 lost nuclear weapons, you’re like, wait, stop. What? Say again?” (01:53 & 36:25 / 36:38)
  • Ed: “Euphemisms make hard things a lot easier.” (02:06 & 36:39)

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Main Segment: The 1965 USS Ticonderoga Broken Arrow Incident

What Happened?

(15:59–26:39)

• Routine turns catastrophic: During a training exercise, an A4E Skyhawk fighter jet rolls off the elevator of the USS Ticonderoga, plunging into the Pacific.
  • Ed: "As the Skyhawk was being positioned on the elevator, it suddenly began rolling backward...it rolled off the side of the carrier...and vanished into the ocean.” (21:24)
• Onboard: Lieutenant Douglas Webster (the pilot), and a 1-megaton hydrogen bomb—70 times more powerful than the Hiroshima bomb.
• Rescue & cover-up: Search and rescue fail to recover plane or pilot; only the helmet is found. Instead of transparency, the Navy initiates a cover-up due to the proximity of Japan—where both nuclear weapons and U.S. government dishonesty are especially sensitive topics.

Reactions & Comedic Analogies

(22:33–26:39)

• Angela compares the incident to dropping your phone in the toilet—once it’s gone, it’s really gone. (22:42)
• Roleplay twist: “What plane?" banter on how the Navy might have covered up the incident. (23:47–24:03)

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The Secrecy & the Diplomatic Fallout

(26:39–34:07)

• Why the cover-up? The incident technically occurred in Japanese waters, violating an explicit anti-nuclear treaty.
  • Jenna pivots the conversation to the legal and diplomatic issues: “Was the ship more than 200 nautical miles off the coastline of Japan?” (26:39)
• US-Japan silent deal: “Don’t ask, don’t tell” policy about nukes on ships.
• The long cover-up: The U.S. concealed the incident for over 15 years. Only in 1981 does it become public, and it’s buried in a memo. In 1989, Greenpeace and a naval expert finally reveal the full truth: the bomb was just 70 miles from Japan’s shore, much closer than previously claimed.

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Fallout and Lessons

(34:07–38:59)

• Ecological & ethical concern: The bomb, though unarmed, is 16,000 ft underwater and could potentially leak pollutants as it decays—contrary to Pentagon assurances.
  • “It is hard to believe… that a nuclear missile just decaying on the bottom of the ocean is like, completely harmless.” — Ed (40:05)
  • Angela: “Would you take a dirty penny and put it in a glass of water… It’s doing something down there for sure.” (40:43)
• Diplomatic choreography: Ed wonders whether expressions of outrage in international incidents are genuinely personal or just “grand institutional emotion.” (33:23–34:07)
• Handy euphemisms: Discussion returns to why the term “broken arrow” is used—“broken arrow” sounds less scary than “lost nuclear weapon.”
• Staggering statistic: Since 1950, there have been 32 "broken arrow" incidents, including theft, accidental detonation, and unaccounted losses.
  • Angela: “Like, yeah, I don't know, like which one bothers me the most. I don't know if it's that we lost some, that they were stolen or accidentally detonated." (37:56)
  • Ed: "The next time you're feeling clumsy for dropping something, just remember that the US Navy dropped an entire hydrogen bomb into the ocean and then kicked sand over it for 15 years." (38:15)
• “Lessons learned”:
  • Comedic twist on moral lessons learned:
    • Jenna: “Lie plus time. Give it time.” (39:05)
    • Ed: “Let them devour you from the inside.” (39:07)
  • Angela: “Thank you, Greenpeace… for holding people accountable.” (39:38–40:01)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Ed:
  • “Basically, this is a classic workplace comedy—except if Michael Scott was in charge… and instead of paper jams, we’re dealing with hydrogen bombs.” (15:39–16:02)
  • “Euphemisms make hard things a lot easier.” (02:06 & 36:39)
  • "All I know is what I've been told, and that to half truth, is a whole lie.” (16:19 & 28:06)
• Angela:
  • “Now I know why they call it broken arrows…” (01:53 & 36:25)
  • “Would you take a dirty penny and put it in a glass of water and let it sit overnight and then drink that glass of water the next day? … It's doing something down there for sure.” (40:43)
• Jenna:
  • "Those meet cutes are a lie." (11:16)
  • “32 super duper nukes?” (36:15)
  • “I think instead of broken arrow, they should be called a dirty penny.” (41:02)
• Group banter:
  • Comparing lost nuclear weapons to The Office “candy bags” and “bloopers”—ways of softening scary or unpleasant truths. (36:44–37:35)

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Important Segment Timestamps

• 02:05 – Angela and Jenna join; “The Office” memories
• 09:22 – Personal SNAFU stories
• 13:26 – Main snafu introduction: the “lost nuke”
• 15:59 – The 1965 USS Ticonderoga incident play-by-play
• 22:33 – Crew reactions, phone-in-toilet analogy
• 26:39 – Geographic, diplomatic, and secrecy issues
• 31:55 – The cover-up, Greenpeace, and final Pentagon admission
• 34:07 – Aftermath: ecological, diplomatic, and ethical questions
• 36:12 – Accidental nuclear weapons tally (32 broken arrows)
• 38:15 – Ed’s lesson: "Lie...and eventually it fades”
• 39:38 – Angela: “Thank you, Greenpeace.”
• 41:02 – Jenna: “Call them dirty pennies!”
• 41:18 – Jenna and Angela plug current projects

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What’s Next From the Guests?

(41:18–43:36)

• Office Ladies podcast:
  • "All new material every Wednesday; Office rewatch library plays on Mondays." – Jenna (41:45)
• Jenna Fischer:
  • Starring in the world premiere play "Ashland Avenue" at the Goodman Theater in Chicago, written by her husband Lee Kirk.
• Angela Kinsey:
  • Her husband, a self-taught chef, is publishing a family cookbook titled "You Can Make This" in October.

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Tone and Takeaways

• Casual, irreverent, but thoughtful: The hosts and guests mix jokes, nostalgia, and genuine concern for history and the present.
• Underlying message: Language softens harsh truths—“broken arrow” instead of “lost nuke”; “candy bag” instead of “extra work.”
• Serious undertone: Institutions will sometimes cover up mistakes for decades; accountability often comes from diligent outsiders (like Greenpeace).
• Final word:
  • Angela: “Thank goodness you’re [Greenpeace] around. Because maybe we would have never known.”
  • Ed: “The next time you're feeling clumsy for dropping something, just remember that the US Navy dropped an entire hydrogen bomb into the ocean and then kicked sand over it for 15 years.”

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Summary Table: The 1965 USS Ticonderoga Broken Arrow

| Incident | Location | What Happened | Secrecy/Aftermath | |----------------------|-------------|------------------------------------|----------------------------------| | USS Ticonderoga | Off Japan | Plane with a hydrogen bomb lost at sea; pilot perished | Covered up 15+ years, exposed in 1989 by Greenpeace |

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For fans of history, The Office, or real-life farces, this episode delivers funny and sobering reminders of how human error, language, and secrecy always shape the fate of even the world’s most powerful institutions.

Transcript

[Angela Kinsey]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Narrator (Graves County Promo)]

The murder of an 18 year old girl in Graves County, Kentucky went unsolved for years until a local housewife, a journalist and a handful of girls came forward with a story.

[Ed Helms]

America, y' all better wake the hell up. Bad things happens to good people in small towns.

[Narrator (Graves County Promo)]

Listen to Graves county on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts and to binge the entire season ad free. Subscribe to Lava for Good plus on Apple Podcasts.

[Narrator (IVF Disrupted Promo)]

Introducing IVF disrupted the Kind Body Story, a podcast about a company that promised to revolutionize fertility care. It grew like a tech startup. While kindbody did help women start families, it also left behind a stream of disillusioned and angry patients.

[Ed Helms]

You think you're finally like in the right hands? You're just not.

[Narrator (IVF Disrupted Promo)]

Listen to IVF, the Kind Body Story on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ed Helms]

Hey guys, Ed Helms here. I'm so glad to be back for season four of snafu. Real quick, before we start this, this season we're tackling even more snafus than ever before. How are we doing that? Well, it's one new snafu per episode, to be precise. And we're doing it along with some of the funniest and or most interesting people I know in a new weekly format. And you can also watch it on YouTube. You are not going to want to miss what we've got in store, so stay tuned. Here's the episode one.

[Angela Kinsey]

Now I know why they call it broken arrows. Because when you say, you know What? We have 32 broken arrows, you're like, oh. If you say we have 32 lost nuclear weapons, you're like, wait, stop.

[Ed Helms]

What?

[Angela Kinsey]

Say again?

[Ed Helms]

Euphemisms make hard things a lot easier. Hey, I'm Ed Helms, host of snafu, a show about history's greatest screw ups. Today I am joined by two of my altar favorite humans on the planet, Angela Kinsey and Jenna Fisher. Of course, you know them as Angela Martin and Pam Beasley from the Office, where we spent many years making each other chuckle both on and off camera. These days, they co host the wildly beloved Office Ladies podcast, where they deep dive into every episode, every single episode of the Office with their very own distinct brand of insight, warmth, heart and hilarity. Angela and Jenna, I am so psyched you're here.

[Angela Kinsey]

Hi, Ed.

[Jenna Fischer]

Hi, Ed.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah, it's so good to see you.

[Angela Kinsey]

I'm giving jazz hands right now. Cause we've got Video going. Yeah, Just wanna jazz it up a little.

[Ed Helms]

Jazz it up. All right.

[Angela Kinsey]

Hi there.

[Ed Helms]

Let me ask a very, I think, very pressing question that all of our listeners and viewers are probably wondering right now, which is how much do you miss working with me on a daily basis?

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, my gosh, I miss the office a lot.

[Ed Helms]

I know.

[Angela Kinsey]

I mean, we spend our days. Our job now is watching the show. And it always just brings up so many memories of working together. And you know how many bloopers there are? Oh, yeah, there's so many. Because we would just laugh all day together. That's what we did, Ed.

[Jenna Fischer]

I just miss. I miss being silly with you. Like, we would get so silly. Like, I would walk past you and we would just make up a new noise, like pewing, wing bang.

[Ed Helms]

Oh, my God. It's like all the stuff off camera, the life experience of that whole time period, which was just had this kind of larger umbrella feeling of like, wow, we're all part of something really great. And that's, like, super special. And. But then we're also having these really mundane, lovely moments on the set, just talking about each other's lives and families and, like, I don't know, just the little. Those little quiet moments or sitting at our trailers, like, waiting for a camera set up or. It's like that. That's. I think something that, like, fans don't always understand is that, like, our experience of making the show is actually this whole tapestry of mundane small moments of just experiencing each other.

[Angela Kinsey]

I mean, it's an intimacy, you know, of togetherness, of constant togetherness.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

And I think if I could go back and relive a moment, like if, you know, I got a genie in a bottle and I could use a wish, it would be to go back and shoot a conference room scene all day. Cause when we would see those on the script or on the call sheet, and we would be like, oh, God, we gotta be in the conference room all day.

[Ed Helms]

It's gonna be a slogan day all day.

[Angela Kinsey]

But those were the days that created the moments you're talking about, Ed.

[Ed Helms]

Totally.

[Angela Kinsey]

Those little laughs, the Cher's, the sweatiness together, all of it.

[Jenna Fischer]

I also think because we weren't on a huge lot, you know, there was no distraction. You know, people didn't walk off to a commissary. We were just all in this little bubble, this tiny space where we got to be creative together. It kind of reminded me a little bit of that energy you have in your early days with your improv group or your one act play because there was no one else. There was no shiny object to go off and look at. It was just us. Like, I loved it when you would play your banjo and Creed would bring in his guitar and we'd hang out in the parking lot, you know?

[Ed Helms]

Yeah. And it's funny you bring up those conference room scenes, because those were particularly special because most of the time, we're not all together. Right. Most of the time, we're just doing little scenes with, like, one or two other characters, and. And that's the bulk of our work. But then the table read was always a special moment. Every Tuesday morning was the table read of next week's script. Or two weeks. I forget the timing, but then.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, it was one week.

[Ed Helms]

It was one week. One week.

[Angela Kinsey]

It was less than a week's notice.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah, but those are the moments. Those. And some of those conference room scenes were like, that's where everybody's together. Like, everybody's. And those had a really special energy, like, just a little buzz to them. And like you said, when they were all day long and they get a little dull and they start to slow down, everybody's trying to just hang in there. That's like some of the just most human hangout.

[Angela Kinsey]

Ed, you had a really unique experience joining the show because you actually joined in Stamford. So you didn't start off in the Dunder Mifflin Bullpen, the Scranton Dunder Mifflin Bullpen. You came over. What was that like for you to kind of, like, soft launch into the show? Like, you worked with John, you worked with Rasheeda, you worked with Chip.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah. Well, sorry, Jenna. I'll be asking the questions today.

[Angela Kinsey]

I forgot whose podcast we were doing.

[Ed Helms]

No, I love the question. I always tell people. Like, that was such a gentle entry for us because of exactly what you're saying. Like, you know, Rasheeda and I started at a time when the show was hot. It was season three, and you guys had already just kind of, like, created this incredible thing. And so we were intimidated, but also felt kind of so warmly welcomed, both by the writers and. And all of you. Everyone's energy was so lovely.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's so sweet.

[Ed Helms]

It really could have gone the other way. I'm sure a lot of other shows, there's, like, more. It's more cutthroat or it feels more like the new people. Like, let's not. Let's let them. They have to prove themselves. But I just felt so. Like, all of my butterflies and anxiety just washed out so quickly because everyone. All of you were so lovely. Right out of the gate, and which is a testament to. To all of you and the vibe that got created.

[Angela Kinsey]

It was collaborative. It was not competitive.

[Ed Helms]

Totally.

[Angela Kinsey]

There was not like a weird ego competitiveness going on on that set, which was so great.

[Ed Helms]

Absolutely.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah. It was always, you know, we always say it was a real creative collaboration. From the writers room to the crew to the cast, we were all working together to create a product that we were proud of. And I think. I mean, I think you feel that when you watch it, and I think that's why people keep enjoying it, is you're seeing a group of people having a great time.

[Ed Helms]

There's a warmth there that's real, and I think that comes through the camera. All right, well, first, this is something I ask all of my guests. Is there a moment in your own life, a mishap, a misunderstanding, a full blown meltdown that would qualify as a snafu?

[Jenna Fischer]

I mean, I have one that immediately comes to mind.

[Angela Kinsey]

What is it, lady?

[Jenna Fischer]

I had just moved from Indonesia to Dallas, Texas, in the 80s. Okay, 1984. I had lived in Jakarta for 12 years. I didn't know what the heck an American high school vibe was.

[Ed Helms]

Oh, my God.

[Jenna Fischer]

And I was also a grade ahead in half my subjects. So I would go to the junior high for the first four classes that my mom would pick me up. I'd eat lunch in the car driving to the high school, and I was like this tiny little thing in this big high school. I was such an outsider, and I really wanted to fit in. And I'm a freshman who's moved from Indonesia, who doesn't know, like, I'm supposed to get a perm and wear a bunch of eyeliner. I don't know that yet.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah, Texas has a real, real specific high school vibe, especially in the 80s. Yeah, 80s.

[Jenna Fischer]

Dallas. That's a vibe. Okay, first class of the day, English class. Super hot dude behind me, like, athletic dude. And I'm at my desk, and my pencil on the desk rolls off to the right on the ground. I lean over to get it. I don't calibrate my weight versus the wraparound desk weight.

[Ed Helms]

Oh, no.

[Jenna Fischer]

The whole thing flipped over on me. Pinned me to the ground with my feet akimbo. And the hottie dude behind me is.

[Ed Helms]

Like, oh, my God.

[Angela Kinsey]

Goes to pick me up.

[Jenna Fischer]

And they were like, your arm. And I'm like, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine. And my arm. I thought I broke my arm.

[Angela Kinsey]

Does this story end with the hottie asking you out because you've also just described, like, every meet cute in a teen movie from the 80s.

[Jenna Fischer]

I'm going to tell you right now, those meet cutes are a lie.

[Ed Helms]

All right, you got a quick one, Jenna?

[Angela Kinsey]

I do. So it's. It's not a school snafu, but it's a teenage snafu. I had a big crush on one of the guys who lived in my neighborhood, and I kind of wanted to, like, just impress him, you know, like, in that way where you want to peacock a little, maybe catch their eye. So I had gotten this, like, new esprit top. Do you remember Esprit?

[Ed Helms]

Esprit.

[Jenna Fischer]

Loved Esprit.

[Angela Kinsey]

Very cool brand, very proud of it. And I had, like, this special, like, matching ribbon for my hair. So I put this on, and my. My idea was that I'd go out and get the mail so it would be a reason for me to, like, walk out. So I timed it out. I, like, sat and, like, watched him arrive home. And I proudly walked out in my esprit top, and I went. I looked in the mailbox, and, like, oh, there's nothing there. But, you know, I'm really looking as if, you know, it's okay. And he is. He is watching me, right? Like, it's. He. I caught his eye. I get inside. My mom says, what are you doing? And I said, oh, nothing. I was just. I was just going to get the mail. And she said, sweetie, you're not wearing any pants.

[Ed Helms]

Shut up.

[Angela Kinsey]

No, that's right.

[Ed Helms]

What?

[Angela Kinsey]

That's right. I forgot. I was so into my esprit top that I forgot to put on the bottoms of the outfit.

[Ed Helms]

Y' all like any bottoms?

[Angela Kinsey]

I mean, I had on, like, undies, but I didn't have on pants.

[Jenna Fischer]

This is so.

[Angela Kinsey]

I had on this, like, long. It was kind of like an oxford shirt, you know, so it hung down even past my underwear.

[Ed Helms]

Oh, this is very 80s.

[Angela Kinsey]

No. I was like Tom Cruise in Risky Business just walking out in my big oxford with no pants on. And then I hid in my house for the next four years and never spoke to him again.

[Ed Helms]

Oh, boy. Those are some major snafus, you guys. That's. That's. That's. Yeah, that's. Big stuff. This one might be bigger.

[Angela Kinsey]

I hope.

[Ed Helms]

So, Angela and Jenna, are you ready to dive into today's snafu?

[Jenna Fischer]

I'm so excited.

[Angela Kinsey]

So excited.

[Jenna Fischer]

I'm having a sip of my iced tea. I'm settling in.

[Ed Helms]

Get ready. Get your podcast.

[Angela Kinsey]

I love a snafu. I love you. I love this pod. So three of my favorite things are about to happen all at once. And I love Angela. My bff. Four things.

[Jenna Fischer]

Just an abundance of riches, right?

[Angela Kinsey]

Here it is.

[Ed Helms]

Today's snafu takes US aboard the USS 2 Ticonderoga, a massive aircraft carrier stationed off the coast of Japan in 1965. This thing was built like it was auditioning for a Cold war action movie. Tough exterior, fighter jets everywhere. Total mid century badass picture. If Don Draper and Maverick from Top Gun had a baby and the baby was a boat and it like chain smoked all the time. Like, that's what this aircraft carrier was like. Pure American military swagger. Unfortunately, unfortunately, that swagger was about to trip into a colossal faceplant. So what happened was what is known in military circles as a broken arrow incident. Do either of you know what that term means?

[Jenna Fischer]

There was a movie called Broken Arrow.

[Ed Helms]

Yes, there was.

[Angela Kinsey]

I don't.

[Ed Helms]

Do you know what the movie was about? It might help. Okay.

[Jenna Fischer]

I feel like a guy jumped off a train.

[Ed Helms]

Maybe that happened in that movie. But a broken arrow incident is. That's when we lose a nuclear device.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh my goodness.

[Ed Helms]

Which has happened.

[Jenna Fischer]

I think the nuclear device was on the train.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah, okay.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, okay, whatever. Let go. Let it go, Angela.

[Ed Helms]

I feel like John Travolta was in that movie. I can't remember anything else about it. But anyway, the term broken arrow, that refers to anytime we lose a nuclear missile or a bomb or device of some sort. And it happens. It has happened throughout history. Numerous. Like way more than you want to know.

[Jenna Fischer]

I mean, enough times they had to have a code name for it.

[Ed Helms]

Well, losing a nuclear weapon sounds completely insane. And it is. But part of why I wanted to bring this story to you guys in particular is that it has kind of a familiar flavor. Clashing personalities, baffling miscommunication, questionable leadership choices. Basically, this is a classic workplace comedy.

[Jenna Fischer]

Except this is if Michael Scott was in charge.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah, yeah. And instead of cubicles, we're on a thousand foot warship in the middle of the Pacific Ocean. Instead of paper jams, we're dealing with hydrogen bombs. All I know is what I've been told. And that to half truth, is a whole lie.

[Narrator (Graves County Promo)]

For almost a decade, the murder of an 18 year old girl from a small town in Graves County, Kentucky went unsolved until a local homemaker, a journalist and a handful of girls came forward with a story.

[Ed Helms]

I'm telling you, we know Quincy killed her.

[Narrator (Graves County Promo)]

We know a story that law enforcement used to convict six people and that got the citizen investigator on national TV.

[Angela Kinsey]

Through sheer persistence and nerve, this Kentucky housewife helped give justice to Jessica Curran.

[Narrator (Graves County Promo)]

My name is Maggie Freeling. I'm a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist producer and I wouldn't be here if the truth were that easy to find.

[Ed Helms]

I did not know her and I did not kill her or rape or burned or any of that other stuff that y' all said. They literally made me say that I.

[Narrator (Graves County Promo)]

Took a match and struck and threw it on her.

[Jenna Fischer]

They made me say that I poured gas on her.

[Narrator (Graves County Promo)]

From Lava For Good. This is Graves County, a show about just how far our legal system will go in order to find someone to blame.

[Ed Helms]

America, y' all better wake the hell up. Bad things happens to good people and small towns.

[Narrator (Graves County Promo)]

Listen to Graves county in the Bone Valley feed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts and to binge the entire season ad free. Subscribe to Lava for Good plus on Apple Podcast.

[Ed Helms]

Foreign.

[Jay Shetty]

Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, host of the On Purpose podcast. I had the incredible opportunity to sit down with the one, the only cardi b my marriage.

[Cardi B]

I felt the love dying. I was crying every day. I fell in the deepest depression that I had ever had.

[Jay Shetty]

How do you think you're misunderstood?

[Cardi B]

I'm not this evil, mean person that people think that I am. I'm too compassionate. I have sympathy for that. My man, you put so much heart.

[Jay Shetty]

And soul into your work. What's the hardest part for you to take that criticism?

[Cardi B]

This was not given to me. I worked my ass off from it even when I was a stripper. I'm gonna be the best pole dancer in here.

[Jay Shetty]

When was the moment you felt I did it?

[Cardi B]

I still, to this day, don't feel comfortable. I fight every day to keep this level of success because people want to take it from you.

[Jay Shetty]

Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ed Helms]

I started trying to get pregnant about four years ago.

[Angela Kinsey]

Now we're getting a little bit older and it just kind of felt like the window could be closing.

[Narrator (IVF Disrupted Promo)]

Bloomberg and iHeart podcasts present IVF disrupted the kind Body Story, a podcast about a company that promised to revolutionize fertility care. Introducing Kindbody, a new generation of women's.

[Angela Kinsey]

Health and fertility care.

[Narrator (IVF Disrupted Promo)]

Backed by millions in venture capital and private equity, it grew like a tech startup. While Kindbody did help women start families, it also left behind a stream of disillusioned and angry patients.

[Ed Helms]

You think you're finally, like, with the right people in the right hands. And then to find out again that you're just not. Don't be fooled by what all the bright and shiny.

[Narrator (IVF Disrupted Promo)]

Listen to IVF the Kind Body Story starting September 19th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ed Helms]

On December 5, 1965, just off the coast of Japan's Ryukyu Islands, US naval officers were running through a routine training exercise called the crew cut on the USS Ticonderoga. An A4E Skyhawk, an attack fighter jet, was being wheeled into the elevator to be taken up to the flight deck. So, quick pause. Are you guys nervous flyers? I am not. But I will say that for some reason, the idea of landing or taking off on an aircraft carrier scares the bejesus out of me. It's like, I don't know if it's the tiny Runway or just the fact that it's surrounded by water or that it's constantly moving or that there's like 30 people on deck just casually waving around glow sticks like it's a rave for fighter jets. I just. This is very unchill vibes for me.

[Jenna Fischer]

Also, like, with the short Runway, don't they have a cable that catches the plane and jerks it back? I mean, if you need a cable to catch your plane on a landing.

[Ed Helms]

I don't know, what if you miss the cable?

[Angela Kinsey]

I got invited to do something like that. They invited me to be in a cockpit for a special flying mission thing, and I was like, I don't need to read anymore. Like, this is not going to go well for anyone. You're just gonna have a lady throwing up on everyone.

[Ed Helms]

For this crew cut exercise, the pilot, Lieutenant Douglas Webster, was simply supposed to take off, fly around for a bit, and then land again. A routine drill to practice loading and unloading cargo. But almost immediately, things went off the rails. As the Skyhawk was being positioned on the elevator, it suddenly began rolling backward. The crew on the deck started waving frantically, shouting for Webster to hit the brakes. A few even ran behind the aircraft, trying to stop it from rolling. Heroic, but not exactly realistic. The Skyhawk was one of the Navy's lighter planes, but it still had a takeoff weight of 24,500 pounds. So this was not a rogue shopping cart. This is like a tank with wings, basically. Somehow, Webster didn't catch on to all the chaos going on around him. And in a split second, the Skyhawk rolled off the side of the carrier, tore through the safety netting, and vanished into the ocean. What would you do if you're a crew Member on this flight deck. And you're just like, standing there watching this.

[Jenna Fischer]

Expletives, some cursing. Who's getting fired? Someone's getting fired.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah, for sure. I would be like, we gotta tell somebody.

[Angela Kinsey]

Have you ever, liked, gone to sit down on the toilet and your phone's in your pocket and then it falls in the toilet?

[Ed Helms]

Oh, my God. This is like the most intimate version of that. That's. That's never happened to me. Thank God.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's never. You've never dropped your phone in the toilet?

[Ed Helms]

No, I never have.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh, my gosh. I've done this before. I've never dropped your phone in a swimming pool or something. In a pool of water. Well, but that's different than it's reminding me of.

[Ed Helms]

Okay, But I. Every time I go into an airport bath, like the urinals in an airport, I'm. I'm just like. I pocket my phone for that exact reason. I'm so. Because if, like, my phone goes into, like, a public urinal, it's staying there. Like, no, I ain't getting it out. It is done. Goodbye, phone. I wonder if. If it was. Because, like, when it. When it falls into the ocean, like, it's gone. Like, it ain't. You can't see anything. And I just wonder if it went through anyone's head to just pull one of those like. Like the crew on the deck is like, where's the plane? Somebody's like, what plane? What are you talking about? What? Hmm? Plane. There was no plane.

[Jenna Fischer]

What?

[Angela Kinsey]

Don't know.

[Ed Helms]

There was no plane.

[Jenna Fischer]

I'm not sure.

[Ed Helms]

There's other planes.

[Jenna Fischer]

You know what?

[Ed Helms]

But there was no plane.

[Jenna Fischer]

Here's the other play. How dare you.

[Ed Helms]

The confident.

[Jenna Fischer]

How dare you ask me that?

[Ed Helms]

You just gotta come in with, like, full. The confident rebuttal. What? How dare you? There was a plane here two minutes ago. No, There. What? What?

[Angela Kinsey]

I would know.

[Ed Helms]

I was standing here.

[Jay Shetty]

My God.

[Jenna Fischer]

Was to stop it from rolling.

[Ed Helms]

So the crew sprang into action, calling nearby ships to launch a full search and rescue operation. But it wasn't just about finding the beloved Lieutenant Douglas Webster, who was still inside the plane as it sank.

[Angela Kinsey]

There was that.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah. There's a guy in the plane.

[Angela Kinsey]

We didn't know if he was still on the plane. I thought he was. Oh, no.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah.

[Jenna Fischer]

Oh, no.

[Ed Helms]

I know. Spoiler alert. He did not make it.

[Angela Kinsey]

Oh.

[Ed Helms]

He was not recovered.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's terrible.

[Ed Helms]

I know.

[Angela Kinsey]

Was he the only crew member in the person in the plane?

[Ed Helms]

Yes. He's the only one who perished. There was also something else on board a one megaton nuclear bomb. Yeah, for reference, that's 70 times more powerful than the bomb dropped on Hiroshima. Which, to put it in Dunder Mifflin terms, is like someone misplacing a really important post it note. If that post it note could also vaporize a city.

[Jenna Fischer]

So this whole enormous plane with the Super Duper Nuke and this poor man just go over the edge?

[Ed Helms]

Yes, they just go right over the edge. And I love the term you just said Super Duper Nuke. It feels like.

[Angela Kinsey]

I think that I believe that's the technical search.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah. Do you guys load the Super Duper Nuke? Oh, yeah, it's ready to go. So a frantic search followed, but tragically, neither the pilot nor the aircraft was ever recovered. The only thing they found was his helmet bobbing alone on the surface of the ocean, which really sends chills down your spine. So here's the thing. This was not just a casual cruise that the Ticonderoga was on. It had just wrapped up combat duty in Vietnam and was en route to Japan for some much needed rest and refueling. And that's when the inevitable cover up begins. So let's break down the optics for a second. The US aircraft carrier, fresh from war, accidentally drops a nuclear bomb just off the coast of Japan, a country with, let's say, a very specific set of feelings about nuclear bombs. This is, again, it's 1965, so not too much time has passed. Oh, and just for some added detail, we had signed a treaty promising we wouldn't bring nukes anywhere near Japanese shores. So, yeah, this was not gonna go over well.

[Jenna Fischer]

Was the ship more than 200 nautical miles off the coastline of Japan?

[Ed Helms]

Oh, my God. Who are you? What kind of.

[Angela Kinsey]

This is a very specific question.

[Jenna Fischer]

Well, I had just read that. I had just read that every country is responsible and has ownership of the first 200 nautical miles off their shoreline. So if this was within Japan's 200 nautical miles, that is a very big breach because you're not in open ocean.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah, I believe it was well within Japanese jurisdiction. It was a very bad look. And so, of course, to avoid the bad look, the Navy tried to cover it up. They zipped it up tight lipped. But as we all know, military secrets have a way of slinking into the public zeitgeist eventually. Are you guys good secret keepers? Are you trustworthy?

[Jenna Fischer]

Lock it up. Lock it up.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, but not. This is not a secret I could keep. I would be a whistleblower. I'm good at keeping your secrets or Angela's secrets or friends and family secrets? My own secrets. But I'm not gonna keep your we lost a nuclear weapon in the ocean secret for you if you're the military. Like I'm gonna be the lady who is writing a report on that.

[Ed Helms]

All I know is what I've been told and that to have truth is a whole lie.

[Narrator (Graves County Promo)]

For almost a decade, the murder of an 18 year old girl from a small town in Graves County, Kentucky went unsolved until a local homemaker, a journalist and a handful of girls came forward with a story.

[Ed Helms]

I'm telling you, we know Quincy killed her.

[Narrator (Graves County Promo)]

We know a story that law enforcement used to convict six people and that got the citizen investigator on national tv.

[Angela Kinsey]

Through sheer persistence and nerve, this Kentucky housewife helped give justice to Jessica Curran.

[Narrator (Graves County Promo)]

My name is Maggie Freeling. I'm a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist producer. And I wouldn't be here if the truth were that easy to find.

[Ed Helms]

I did not know her and I.

[Jay Shetty]

Did not kill her or rape or.

[Ed Helms]

Burn or any of that other stuff that y' all said. They literally made me say that I.

[Narrator (Graves County Promo)]

Took a match and struck and threw it on her.

[Jenna Fischer]

They made me say that I poured gas on her.

[Narrator (Graves County Promo)]

From Lava for Good. This is Graves County, a show about just how far our legal system will go in order to find someone to blame.

[Ed Helms]

America, y' all better wake the hell up. Bad things happens to good people and small towns.

[Narrator (Graves County Promo)]

Listen to Graves county in the Bone Valley feed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts and to binge the entire season ad free. Subscribe to Lava for Good plus on Apple Podcasts.

[Jay Shetty]

Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, host of the On Purpose podcast. I had the incredible opportunity to sit down with the one, the only cardi b my marriage.

[Cardi B]

I felt the love dying. I was crying every day. I fell in the deepest depression that I had ever had.

[Jay Shetty]

How do you think you're misunderstood?

[Cardi B]

I'm not this evil, mean person that people think that I am. I'm too compassionate. I have sympathy for that. My man, you put so much heart.

[Jay Shetty]

And soul into your work. What's the hardest part for you to take that criticism?

[Cardi B]

This was not given to me. I worked my ass to even when I was a stripper. I'mma be the best pole dancer in here.

[Jay Shetty]

When was the moment you felt I did it?

[Cardi B]

I still to this day don't feel comfortable. I fight every day to keep this level of success because people want to take it from you so bad.

[Jay Shetty]

Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ed Helms]

I started trying to get pregnant about four years ago now.

[Angela Kinsey]

We were getting a little bit older and it just kind of felt like the window could be closing.

[Narrator (IVF Disrupted Promo)]

Bloomberg and iHeart podcasts present IVF the Kindbody Story, a podcast about a company that promised to revolutionize fertility care, introducing Kindbody, a new generation of women's health and fertility care. Backed by millions in venture capital and private equity, it grew like a tech startup. While Kindbody did help women start families, it also left behind a stream of disillusioned and angry patients.

[Ed Helms]

You think you're finally like with the right people in the right hands and then to find out again that you're just not.

[Jenna Fischer]

Don't be fooled by what all the.

[Ed Helms]

Bright and shiny listen to.

[Narrator (IVF Disrupted Promo)]

IVF Disrupted the Kind Body Story starting September 19th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ed Helms]

The Navy was spectacularly, or perhaps frighteningly able to conceal this incident for over 15 years. It wasn't until 1981 that the Pentagon disclosed the incident. The Washington Post reported about it in a mere three sentences buried in a nuclear accidents report. However, the folks at the Pentagon also did not bother explaining the details of where exactly the bomb was. They first stated that the bomb was more than 500 miles from land. Vague much. They also assured everyone that the bomb posed no danger since it was 16,000ft underwater. But in 1989, the environmental group Greenpeace, alongside naval expert William Arkin, exposed more naval documents revealing that the bomb was dropped only only 70 miles off the coast of the Ryuku Islands, as opposed to the 500 they had said before. They also pointed out that this incident violated Japan's strict anti nuclear policies and exposed some serious Navy secrets about nuclear weapons in Vietnam. With no other choice, the Pentagon finally admitted the whole truth about this gigantic snafu in a statement that same year in 1989.

[Angela Kinsey]

Did this create a diplomatic issue for the United States and the Japanese government?

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah, in 1989, yeah, for sure.

[Ed Helms]

It feels like these international incidents are. There's always some measure of just sort of posturing of like we have to respond this way because protocol demands it of us. And so we must make these statements and we must say these things. We must say that we're outraged and then the US must respond. Respond with their like, diplomatic explanation and acceptance of responsibility. It's like, it's so choreographed, all these things. It's very wild how it all works out and then I always wonder, like, does anyone actually take this personally if, like, Japan is expressing outrage, like, how dare they? Is there any, like, Japanese official who's, like, genuinely pissed, like, at a personal level? Or is it just sort of like grand institutional emotion?

[Jenna Fischer]

I'm also curious. What happens to a nuclear super dupe nuke.

[Ed Helms]

Super duper nuke?

[Jenna Fischer]

A super duper nuke. Does it get pressurized? How deep Was the water? 70 miles off?

[Ed Helms]

This is a great question, and Greenpeace had a lot to say about this. Okay, so when the Pentagon admitted this in 1989, they were actually responding to an article in Newsweek. And then Japanese papers picked up the story, which, of course caused quite a stir throughout Japan itself. Rightfully so. Though the Pentagon confirmed that the bomb would not be harmful. It hadn't been armed, and you have to go through a whole bevy of procedural elements to actually arm it. It was still 16,000ft underwater, decaying, which meant it might eventually break down and start to emit serious pollutants. Yet US Spokespersons claimed this wouldn't cause any harm to the natural world. Either way, it was safe to say they were in the hot seat. At least as hot as the nuclear material inside that bomb, shall we say.

[Angela Kinsey]

Hmm.

[Ed Helms]

So while many were rightfully mad about the big kerplunk, more were outraged because, in fact, the ship shouldn't have had the bomb on it in the first place. Yes, at the time of the incident, Japan had a ban on nuclear weapons. And there was apparently an unspoken agreement between the two world powers. Japanese officials would intentionally not ask the US Ships what they were carrying. And the US Wouldn't volunteer any info either. It was one of those sort of like, don't ask, don't tell kinds of situations. So what happened exactly? The incident fueled further questions about the use of nuclear weaponry in US Combat via diplomatic inquiry from Japan. It also called into question how we adhere to certain protocols and standards for safety, especially when it involves high powered weapons and moving planes around aircraft carriers. Plus, you know, it solidified the long standing tradition of lying to the American public. Since 1950, there have somehow been a whopping 32 broken arrow incidents. This includes theft.

[Jenna Fischer]

Wait, wait.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah. Raising hands.

[Narrator (IVF Disrupted Promo)]

What?

[Jenna Fischer]

32 super duper nukes.

[Ed Helms]

Super duper nukers.

[Angela Kinsey]

32 super nuclear weapons.

[Ed Helms]

Oi, Yoyo.

[Angela Kinsey]

Now I know why they call it broken arrows. Because when you say, you know What? We have 32 broken arrows, you're like, oh. If you say we have 32 lost nuclear weapons, you're like, wait, stop. What? Say again?

[Ed Helms]

Euphemisms make hard things a lot easier. Oh, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 32.

[Jenna Fischer]

That's why Greg called all of our talking heads candy bags. You know, I forgot that he said that he always felt bad giving us pages and pages of extra monologues. So he was like, I'll name them something fun. So he named them candy bags.

[Ed Helms]

I loved those. I loved doing those talking heads and like, coming up with like, new riffs and like the candy bag alts, like all the different versions of our talking heads. Like, just. It was like getting a window into the writers brains. I just remember loving the math of those jokes and like, always trying to think about how to heighten them and they'd have to kick me out of those talking heads.

[Angela Kinsey]

But to your point, naming all the extra work a candy bag, it's a trick. Definitely made it go down easier. And also calling all our screw ups bloopers makes them sound fun too. Like, oh, that was a blooper. Like, that's just a broken arrow.

[Jenna Fischer]

I mean, even the word snafu is kind of fun.

[Ed Helms]

Snafu, guys. It's just a snafu. Whoopsie. Whoopsie doozy. Yeah. So these 32 broken arrow incidents include theft, accidental detonation, and just straight up loss. Like the one that rolled off the back of the Ticonderoga.

[Angela Kinsey]

Like, yeah, I don't know, like which one bothers me the most. I don't know if it's that we lost some, that they were stolen or accidentally detonated. Like, they're all three of those. I don't know which one's worse.

[Ed Helms]

I feel like theft is the scariest theft.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, I do too.

[Ed Helms]

But the next time you're feeling clumsy for dropping something, just remember that the US Navy dropped an entire hydrogen bomb into the ocean and then kicked sand over it for 15 years. And they got away with it. So the lesson here, guys, is lie. If you mess up, lie about it. Because then 15 years will go by.

[Angela Kinsey]

That's the lesson. That's the takeaway.

[Ed Helms]

Because then 15 years will go by and then it's like nobody really gets in trouble. There's a little bit of saber rattling and people get. Governments get mad and exchange sort of diplomatic zingers at each other, but it's not really a thing. So, yeah, I guess that's the lesson. Do you think there are any other valuable lessons here, guys?

[Jenna Fischer]

I think there's a second part to that. It would be lie plus time. Give it time.

[Ed Helms]

Lie for a long time.

[Jenna Fischer]

Be patient with your lies.

[Ed Helms]

I think what you're saying is hold your lies deep inside of you for a really long time. Hold those secrets. Not other people's secrets, your secrets. Hold them deep. Let them devour you from the inside.

[Angela Kinsey]

Such a positive message.

[Jenna Fischer]

I know. Snap.

[Ed Helms]

In all seriousness, is there any positive takeaway here? Is there a way to frame this or look at this that gives us a good lesson? Yeah.

[Angela Kinsey]

Thank you, Greenpeace.

[Ed Helms]

Amen.

[Angela Kinsey]

Thank you.

[Ed Helms]

I love it.

[Angela Kinsey]

Way to stand for something and hold people accountable. Like, thank goodness you're around. Because maybe we would have never known. Right. Because they seem like they were really sounding the alarm on this.

[Ed Helms]

Yep. They were pissed.

[Jenna Fischer]

Yeah.

[Ed Helms]

About all this stuff.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, they were pissed. They were not going to let this just be swept under the rug.

[Ed Helms]

It is hard to believe, like, despite what the Pentagon said, like, it's hard to believe that a nuclear missile just decaying on the bottom of the ocean is like, completely harmless. It's kind of hard to believe.

[Angela Kinsey]

It doesn't make any logical sense.

[Jenna Fischer]

I mean, what is that going to do to the ocean and the ecosystem around it?

[Ed Helms]

It's probably going to kill a couple of starfish.

[Jenna Fischer]

It's going to take out a few coral reefs. I would also say that what is leaking there, I'm not saying it's this one nuke, but there are all these studies about what's in our fish.

[Ed Helms]

There's like all kinds of scary heavy metals in the fish.

[Angela Kinsey]

I mean, would you take a dirty penny and put it in a glass of water and let it sit overnight and then drink that glass of water the next day? You wouldn't. You wouldn't. I mean, come on. It's doing something down there for sure.

[Jenna Fischer]

Can I just bring us back, Bring us back for a little callback here. I think instead of broke, instead of broken arrow, they should be called a dirty penny.

[Angela Kinsey]

Thank you, Angela. I like that.

[Ed Helms]

Got some dirty pennies to account for you guys.

[Angela Kinsey]

Yeah, that's right.

[Ed Helms]

Now tell me what you guys are up to and what we need to look out for you. What's next on Office Ladies? How many episodes have you done and how many are left, by the way?

[Angela Kinsey]

Well, we have watched every episode of the Office and we have given you all the behind the scenes details and trivia that we have collected from cast and crew members for every single episode. And we still have new episodes coming out every Wednesday.

[Ed Helms]

Amazing.

[Jenna Fischer]

We have our whole Office rewatch library that is playing on Mondays and on Wednesdays. We have all new material, all new fun stuff. Diving deeper into the world of the Office and Our best friendship. It's super fun. Come hang out with us.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah, I'd love to. Are you kidding me?

[Jenna Fischer]

Jenna, tell them about your play.

[Ed Helms]

Tell me about your play.

[Angela Kinsey]

I am doing a play at the Goodman Theater in Chicago called Ashland Avenue. It's a world premiere written by Lee Kirk. You might have heard of him. Oh, yeah, my husband, married to the writer. No big whoop.

[Ed Helms]

That's so cool.

[Angela Kinsey]

And starts previews on September 2nd, and it opens on September 15th. And you can get [e-mail] I'm really excited. This will be my first time back on stage in about eight years. And, you know, theater is my first love, so I'm really excited.

[Ed Helms]

That is so cool. Jenna. I'm so excited for you. Ann Lee. That is just awesome.

[Angela Kinsey]

Thank you. And this is the Goodman Theater's 100th year, so this is their centennial season, and we'll be kicking it off with Ashland Avenue.

[Ed Helms]

No big deal.

[Angela Kinsey]

No big deal, though. And Angela, Angela's got some fun news as well.

[Jenna Fischer]

I do. So you know Ed, my husband's a chef and a baker and he's self taught and he's really big about getting the family in the kitchen and cooking together and baking together and that the kitchen is the heart of our home. And he's been making recipes and we've been cooking together for years now, and he's finally put all of our favorite family recipes into a cookbook. It's called you can make this. Because that's what he says to me and the kids all the time. He's like, you guys can make this and you really can. And so we have that coming out in October of this year and it's really great. It's a great, great cookbook.

[Ed Helms]

Congratulations. That's so, so cool.

[Jenna Fischer]

Thank you.

[Ed Helms]

I'm excited to tell you about my book coming out in another year called Super Duper Nuker. Not true. Hey, you guys are the best. And I am just so, so happy to see you and hang out with you a little bit every time I get a chance to see you. It's just the best. Thanks for coming on.

[Angela Kinsey]

Aw, thanks for having us, Ed. You're awesome. We love you.

[Ed Helms]

Snafu is a production of iHeart podcasts and snafu Media, a partnership between Film Nation Entertainment and Pacific Electric Picture Company. Our post production studio is Gilded Audio. Our executive producers are me, Ed Helms, Mike Falbow, Glenn Basner, Andy Kim, Whitney Donaldson and Dylan Fagan. This episode was produced by Alyssa Martino and Tori Smith. Our video editor is Jared Smith. Technical direction and engineering from Nick Dooley. Our Creative executive is Brett Harris. Logo and branding by the Collected Works Legal review from Dan Welch, Megan Halson, and Caroline Johnson. Special thanks to Isaac Dunham, Adam Horne, Lane Klein, and everyone at iHeart podcasts, but especially Will Pearson, Kerry Lieberman, Nikki Etor, Nathan Otoski, and Alex Corral. While I have you, don't forget to pick up a copy of my book the Definitive Guide to History's Greatest Screw Up. It's available now from any book retailer. Just go to snafu-book.com thanks for listening and see you next week.

[Narrator (Graves County Promo)]

The murder of an 18 year old girl in Graves County, Kentucky went unsolved for years until a local housewife, a journalist, and a handful of girls came forward with a story.

[Ed Helms]

America, y' all better wake the hell up. Bad things happens to good people in small towns.

[Narrator (Graves County Promo)]

Listen to Graves county on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast and to binge the entire season ad free. Subscribe to Lava for Good plus on Apple Podcasts.

[Narrator (IVF Disrupted Promo)]

Introducing IVF disrupted the kindbody Story, a podcast about a company that promised to revolutionize fertility care. It grew like a tech startup. While Kindbody did help women start families, it also left behind a stream of disillusioned and angry patients.

[Ed Helms]

You think you're finally like in the right hands? You're just not.

[Narrator (IVF Disrupted Promo)]

Listen to IVF Disrupted the Kind Body Story on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ed Helms]

This is an iHeart podcast.