S4E10: Dan Taberski and the Great Molasses Flood

Summary

SNAFU with Ed Helms: S4E10

"Dan Taberski and the Great Molasses Flood"

Date: December 10, 2025
Host: Ed Helms
Guest: Dan Taberski

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Episode Overview

Ed Helms is joined by acclaimed documentarian and former Daily Show colleague Dan Taberski to unravel one of American history’s strangest disasters: the 1919 Great Molasses Flood in Boston. The duo blends their comic sensibilities with deep research, discussing not just the physical aftermath of this sticky catastrophe but the cultural, industrial, and legal ripple effects that ensued. Along the way, Helms and Taberski reflect on the nature of historical screw-ups, corporate accountability, and a uniquely tragic chapter in Boston’s—and America’s—past.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Reuniting Old Colleagues

• Reminiscing on The Daily Show:
  • Helms and Taberski reveal their history working together, reminiscing about satirical segments like “Guns for Tots” (03:06).
  • Quote: “We collaborated on a number of segments, and one I’m most proud of is, in fact, a Dan Tabersky segment, a delightful little number called Guns for Tots.” (03:17, Helms)

2. Setting the Scene: Boston, 1919

• Atmosphere of the North End:
  • Boston’s “Little Italy,” bustling with 400,000 people, horse-drawn carriages, early cars, and, crucially, a looming industrial molasses tank (05:35–07:36).

3. Why Molasses Mattered

• Industrial Demand:
  • Molasses, imported from the Caribbean, was a vital commodity for rum, industrial alcohol, and even explosives, especially with the onset of World War I. (08:33–10:08)
  • Quote: “It can be distilled into industrial alcohol and then even broken down into its chemical components for use in explosives.” (09:04, Helms)

4. The Giant Molasses Tank: A Disaster Waiting to Happen

• Construction Shortcuts:
  • USIA (United States Industrial Alcohol Company) rushes to build an enormous, 3-million-gallon tank under the supervision of Arthur P. Gel—who had zero engineering background (11:12).
  • The tank leaked constantly; kids scooped up drippings for snacks (12:39).
  • Rather than fix leaks, the company just painted the tank brown to disguise them (15:58).
  • Quote: “People do not do the right thing. Just trying to cover their tracks or put band aids on terrible situations is, like, the norm.” (16:00, Helms)

5. The Catastrophe Unfolds

• Chain Reaction:
  • On January 15, 1919, hot molasses is added to a tank half-full of cold molasses, causing thermal stress (17:17).
  • The tank ruptures during lunch hour; residents hear a “machine gun-like” popping—actually fasteners blowing out—before a 25-foot-tall wall of syrup bursts out at 35 mph (20:06–21:15).
  • New York Times description: “A dull muffled roar gave but an instant’s warning…wagons, carts and motor trucks were overturned…a number of horses were killed. The street was strewn with debris intermixed with molasses. And all traffic was stopped.” (20:53, read by Helms)

6. Human and Animal Toll

• Tragedy Details:
  • 21 people killed, 150 injured.
  • Rescuers struggled with the thickening syrup; “horses died like so many flies on sticky flypaper. The more they struggled, the deeper in the mess they were ensnared. Human beings, men and women, suffered likewise.” (22:00, Boston Post via Helms)
  • Whole buildings were demolished; cleanup was an epic challenge (22:47–24:46).

7. The Cleanup: Seawater to the Rescue

• Ingenious Clean-up:
  • Seawater from Boston Harbor, effective in dissolving molasses, floods the streets to finally clear the goo (25:36).
  • Local lore: Harbor water was brown for weeks; on hot days decades later, it still supposedly smells like molasses (41:48).

8. Legal Aftermath: Corporate Accountability

• Groundbreaking Lawsuit:
  • 119 residents file a class action against USIA (31:17).
  • The company blames “Italian anarchists,” targeting minority residents who lacked social power—a common historical pattern (31:49–33:15).
  • Judge Ogden surprisingly rules for the plaintiffs after a 5-year case; USIA pays $628,000 (over $11 million today) (34:07–34:46).
  • This case sets a precedent for holding corporations legally and financially responsible for negligence (38:08–41:04).
  • Quote: “They proved that a corporation could be held accountable for negligence, putting a pin in the era of unquestioned support for big business.” (38:08, Helms)

9. Aftermath and Legacy

• Molasses Industry’s Collapse:
  • Investigations find structural failures in tank design and poor material choices (41:06).
  • USIA shutters Boston operations; the disaster changes the city and industry regulations forever.

10. Reflection: What Makes a Good Documentary (and a Life Philosophy)

• Dan Taberski on Narrative Uncertainty:
  • He prepares 3–4 possible endings to any story, loving documentaries that take surprising left turns (39:20).
  • Helms praises Taberski’s interviewing for revealing unexpected truths amid complex situations (39:24–40:54).

11. Broader Themes: Class Actions & Collective Power

• Helms on Legal Rights and Free Speech:
  • He champions class actions as a vital tool for consumer protection and likens them to collective bargaining: “When large groups of people that don't have a voice…work together, [they] can actually have a very powerful voice.” (44:17)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• “This is going to win a Peabody. Like this actual episode.” (03:06, Helms)
• “It’s so seemingly random and crazy—it is molasses.” (08:00, Helms)
• “People do not do the right thing. Just trying to cover their tracks or put band aids on terrible situations is, like, the norm.” (16:00, Helms)
• “Horses died like so many flies on sticky flypaper. The more they struggled, the deeper in the mess they were ensnared. Human beings…suffered likewise.” (22:00, Helms quoting Boston Post)
• “After the flood, Boston was tacky for weeks. No winks there—I’m using the word 'tacky' literally.” (41:48, Helms)
• “When large groups of people that don't have a voice…work together, [they] can actually have a very powerful voice.” (44:17, Helms)
• “Usually I’ll go into it with three or four possibilities of what the ending is…But I like complexity. I really do. It’s what makes it interesting.” (39:03, Tabersky)

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Timeline of Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment Description | |-----------|-----------------------------------| | 03:06 | Recalling “Guns for Tots” and old collaboration
| 05:35 | Setting the scene: Boston, 1919
| 08:04 | Molasses as industrial commodity
| 10:53 | The molasses tank’s scale and construction flaws
| 15:58 | Painting tank brown to cover up leakage
| 17:17 | The disaster’s trigger: thermal shock and rupture
| 20:53 | Contemporary news report of the flood
| 22:00 | Boston Post quote—grim fates of people & animals
| 24:46 | Photos and visual aftermath, rescue attempts
| 25:36 | Clean-up with seawater from Boston Harbor
| 31:17 | Class action lawsuit and scapegoating of Italian anarchists
| 34:07 | Judgment against USIA and financial damages
| 38:08 | Legal precedent: accountability and regulation
| 41:48 | “Boston was tacky for weeks”—lasting impact
| 44:17 | Discussion of class action, unions, collective power
| 39:03 | Tabersky’s philosophy on doc-making complexity

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Tone & Style

Ed Helms and Dan Tabersky approach the story with the irreverence and humor characteristic of both SNAFU and their Daily Show roots, but never undermine the gravity of the disaster. Their dialogue is lively and candid, with personal anecdotes, sharp wit, and moments of poignant reflection. The show is structured as an accessible historical group therapy session—a blend of comedy, industry skepticism, and a respect for unexpected human endurance.

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Further Listening & Reading

• Books & More: Ed Helms plugs his book "SNAFU: The Definitive Guide to History’s Greatest Screw-Ups."
• Upcoming Work: Dan Tabersky teases two new podcast projects—one tangentially related to Italian anarchists in the 1920s.
• Theme: The episode underscores the enduring relevance of corporate accountability, communal voice, and investigating the unlikely "apocalypses" that shape our legal and social fabric.

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Summary

This episode is a deep-dive into how a single disastrous engineering shortcut turned sweet into deadly, reshaped regulatory law, exposed structural inequalities, and left an enduring mark—literal and symbolic—on Boston and the nation. Blending darkly comic narrative with historical detail and personal insights, Helms and Tabersky transform the Great Molasses Flood from quirky trivia into a multi-layered lesson on human error and progress.

Transcript

[Sophie Cunningham]

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[Cal Penn]

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[Ed Helms]

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[Ed Helms]

I already like you. You don't have to like burnish your image with me.

[Dan Tabursky]

I'm not trying to burnish my image. I'm just trying to be honest and love.

[Ed Helms]

God bless you for that. You are lovely. God damn it.

Welcome to snafu, the show about history's greatest screw ups. I'm your host, Ed Helms, and today I am joined by an incredible documentarian, producer, director and podcaster extraordinaire with some of the most incredible investigative skills in the biz. A few of his most memorable hits include missing Richard Simmons, 9:12, the Line, and most recently, the Ambies and Apple Podcast of the Year. Hysterical. And way before all of that, he was also my former colleague from the Daily Show. I am talking about the amazing, illustrious Dan Tabursky. Welcome, Dan, it's me.

[Dan Tabursky]

Hi.

[Ed Helms]

Hi.

[Dan Tabursky]

How are you?

[Ed Helms]

I'm awesome. It's so good to see you.

[Dan Tabursky]

Yeah, it's really good to see you too.

[Ed Helms]

We worked together a very long time ago and you've done so many incredible things since then. And I am enormously proud of you and proud to know you.

[Dan Tabursky]

Thank you. I feel the same way about you. It's been half a lifetime since we worked together.

[Ed Helms]

Pretty much. When was that your Daily show tenure? I started in 2002 and went to 2006.

[Dan Tabursky]

I was 99 to 2003.

[Ed Helms]

Okay. Yeah. So we Overlapped about two years, maybe a year and a half.

[Dan Tabursky]

And two years that we just happened to win a Peabody.

[Ed Helms]

Oh, yeah, that's right.

[Dan Tabursky]

I don't know. Coincidence? I don't know. You tell me.

[Ed Helms]

I don't think so. That's why this. This is our first collaboration since then, and it's going to win a Peabody. Like this actual episode.

[Dan Tabursky]

Not gonna win. Not gonna win.

[Ed Helms]

That's what we do. That's how we do it. So we, you and I collaborated on a number of segments in our Daily show days, and one of the ones I am most proud of is, in fact, a Dan Tabursky segment, a delightful little number called Guns for Tots. Explain the premise of this segment we did for the Daily Show.

[Dan Tabursky]

It was this guy who wanted to make sure he was. What was he doing?

[Ed Helms]

Libertarian.

[Dan Tabursky]

Yeah, he was a libertarian guy, and he was protesting the existence of a law that was trying to keep guns away from kids. Like, if you had a squirt gun, you had to, like, paint it bright pink so it didn't look like a gun. So some kid didn't get shot by accident by a cop.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah.

[Dan Tabursky]

And he was just up in arms.

[Ed Helms]

He felt like this was government overreach 100%, that the government would have the audacity to interfere with someone's right to arm their children. And this is all true. This is real. This is the real stuff that we did a satirical piece about. But the real premise was this guy had a very provocative toy drive called Guns for Tots, in which he gave toy guns to children in Harlem, New York. And we went and covered it, and.

[Dan Tabursky]

We treated him like the hero. He's a warrior. He was a justice warrior.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah, justice warrior.

[Dan Tabursky]

He was, like, making a difference, that guy.

[Ed Helms]

I'll never forget. The segment closed with him talking about how he wants. He can't wait to buy guns for his children. His own children. And we cut to our amazing editor at the time. Einar had a beautiful little daughter. And do you remember this? We filmed her playing with a toy gun that had been painted black and looked very real.

[Dan Tabursky]

Looks like a gun.

[Ed Helms]

And it's like the sweetest, most horrifying juxtaposition of a child with what looks like a Glock.

[Dan Tabursky]

Yeah, it's incredible. It's incredible. It's an amazing visual.

[Ed Helms]

I mean, it's crazy how long ago that was. Well, let's get into today's snafu. It is. It's quite a doozy, this one. Are you ready?

[Dan Tabursky]

Yeah.

[Ed Helms]

All right, here we go.

Imagine this. It's January 1919. You and I are strolling the North End of Boston together on a brisk 40 degree day. For Boston, of course, this is actually shorts and T shirt weather.

[Dan Tabursky]

Yeah, super nice.

[Ed Helms]

Now the. The north end is Boston's version of Little Italy. At this time There are about 400,000 people crammed within a square mile of tightly wound streets, enjoying their midday chowders and packing the Kaz.

[Dan Tabursky]

Although they're Italian though, so like.

[Ed Helms]

Oh yeah, right. Packing the Kaz.

[Dan Tabursky]

Yeah, yeah. I don't know, it's a weird combination.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah. Boston, they had an Italian accent. By Kaz, of course, I mean horse drawn carriages and trolleys. At the time there were 8,000 of them in the city of Boston. Car, just to be clear, there were also cars, but it was very early in the automobile time. I think it was still just rich people who had cars at that time.

[Dan Tabursky]

That must have been such a mess. Having to figure out how to navigate cars and horses on the same roads. That must have been really confusing.

[Ed Helms]

That's a great point. I mean, you're right. That transition must have been real hairy for a while.

[Dan Tabursky]

And did they have horns on for horses? Like when you had a wagon, did you have a horn or did they just do it with. That's not a bad question.

I'm just. I would be. Cause I know when they got cars they would have horns.

[Cal Penn]

Right.

[Ed Helms]

Do horse drive carriages have horns? Well, all I know is that the cars of the day sounded a lot like.

Right, that was like the car horn. Yeah, yeah. And I'm guessing if you were a conscientious carriage driver, why wouldn't you have a horn on your carriage?

[Dan Tabursky]

Or bells. Maybe it's ghosts.

[Ed Helms]

Although they might scare the horses. You gotta be careful. I don't know. So picture this. We're back there, it's January 1919, and suddenly the ground starts to shake. Is it an earthquake? Well, no, Dan, it's probably the last thing you'd expect it to be. A 25 foot tall wave of thick brown liquid rushing straight towards us at 35 miles an hour. Any idea what it is?

[Dan Tabursky]

Uh, it's not a tsunami.

[Ed Helms]

No. And it's not sewage either.

[Dan Tabursky]

Well, that's good. That it's not. It's brown. We know it's brown. It's a brown wave.

[Ed Helms]

It's a brown wave.

[Dan Tabursky]

It's a brown wave. It's. It's a liquid. It's oil. It's oil.

[Ed Helms]

You're never gonna guess.

[Dan Tabursky]

I don't know what it is.

[Ed Helms]

It's so seemingly random. And crazy it is. Molasses.

[Dan Tabursky]

Oh, fuck. That's a mess.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah. It was a massive tsunami of molasses that flooded the north end of Boston, and it was a very dire accident.

[Dan Tabursky]

Where did it come from?

[Ed Helms]

Okay, we're gonna get into all of this, but so just to understand how Boston got itself into this wicked pissa of a predicament, let's rewind. Let's go all the way back to the beginning. And I'm not gonna throw any more Boston isms out, because I can't even do it right.

[Dan Tabursky]

No, I like them. I think they're fun.

[Ed Helms]

So first, what you have to know is that molasses was a major commodity of the day and a crucial component of the Massachuset in the early 1900s. Are you a fan of molasses? Like, do you ever consume molasses?

[Dan Tabursky]

No. That feels like a Southern thing to cook with molasses for sure.

[Ed Helms]

It's definitely. So I grew up having molasses on. On, like, breakfast biscuits and stuff. It's basically like a very, very strong.

Syrup is what it is. What it tastes like.

[Dan Tabursky]

Yes, it's delicious.

[Ed Helms]

Are you aware of the many uses outside of cuisine that molasses can be used for?

[Dan Tabursky]

Well, because we're talking about Boston, I'm wondering if they use it for, like, pitching boats and stuff like that. Like.

[Ed Helms]

Interesting.

[Dan Tabursky]

Could you use, like, tar?

[Ed Helms]

Yeah, it's not quite as strong as tar. It's much less viscous than tar. So here are some other uses of molasses. Of course, it's used to make rum. Okay. But did you also know that it can be distilled into industrial alcohol and then even broken down into its chemical components for use in explosives. So it had some very strong industrial uses, and especially at this time, because with the outbreak of World War I, there was suddenly a massive increase in demand for industrial alcohol and for explosives. And so therefore, also huge demand for molasses.

[Dan Tabursky]

That's incredible.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah. And so they had to have these massive storage tanks all over the country for molasses of all.

[Dan Tabursky]

Can I interrupt you one more time?

[Ed Helms]

Yeah.

[Dan Tabursky]

Where does molasses actually come from? Is it tree SAP?

[Ed Helms]

So it's made from sugarcane. At this time, it almost all came from the Caribbean.

[Dan Tabursky]

That's why Caribbean rum is such a thing.

[Ed Helms]

Correct. Interesting.

[Dan Tabursky]

Okay, I'm learning.

[Ed Helms]

In 1915, a group called the United States Industrial Alcohol Company, we will heretofore refer to as USIA, saw an opportunity to capitalize on the growing popularity of molasses and began construction on a 3 million gallon tank in Boston's North End.

[Dan Tabursky]

Wow.

[Ed Helms]

Now how big do you think this is? Like, if you had to, like, compare it to something, how big is a 3 million gallon tank?

[Dan Tabursky]

I mean, it's gotta be like, just like one of those things like that, you see that hold the water tanks, like.

[Ed Helms]

Oh, like at airports. Like the.

[Dan Tabursky]

Is that like 3 million?

[Ed Helms]

I don't know. I think it's much bigger.

[Dan Tabursky]

It's.

[Ed Helms]

So this is the size of four, four and a half Olympic sized swimming pools. It's 50ft tall and 90ft in diameter. That is. That's a lot of molasses.

[Dan Tabursky]

That's a lot of molasses. That's incredible.

[Ed Helms]

Now, the idea was for USIA to supply their own refineries with raw molasses instead of relying on other companies, thereby cutting out the middleman. And the company was expecting a massive molasses shipment from Cuba. So naturally, USIA being a large, classic American, American industrial corporation, that's all about the bottom line. They needed to rush the construction of this giant molasses tank. So a man named Arthur P. Gel had been hired to oversee the molasses tank project despite having zero engineering background whatsoever. But.

[Dan Tabursky]

J. Sorry. G, E, L, J.

[Ed Helms]

No, no. J, E, L, L. Okay, got it. Art Gel. Yeah. It is a funny last name, especially considering that we're talking about a. A viscous substance.

[Dan Tabursky]

Yeah.

[Ed Helms]

He was able to deliver on the two most important criteria. Making this thing fast and making it cheap. So allegedly, Gel and his team did not even test this giant vat before putting it into use. You know, you would want to, like, fill it with water at least and just see if it works.

[Cal Penn]

Well, they didn't.

[Ed Helms]

They didn't even test it. So right away, this vat is leaking constantly. So much so that neighborhood kids were bringing buckets to catch the drippings for a snack.

[Dan Tabursky]

Smart.

[Ed Helms]

Are you a finicky eater or are you. Are you like George Costanza?

[Dan Tabursky]

I mean, if somebody said, hey, you want a bucket of molasses? I wouldn't say no.

I wouldn't throw a bucket of molasses out of bed.

[Ed Helms]

I'm not sure it would be good in bed. Hold on. Who knows? Hey, Ed Helms here. Now, if you're listening to Snafu, you.

[Cal Penn]

Probably love a good story, especially the.

[Ed Helms]

Kind that pulls you in, twists your brain a little, and leaves you wanting more. And you also like listening to that story. Well, if this describes you, I've got.

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Another podcast you should check out.

[Ed Helms]

It's called Irsay the Audible.

[Cal Penn]

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[Ed Helms]

Co host it with my good friend Cal Pennsylvania. Each week we dive into some of the most compelling new audiobooks from audible thrillers, reimagined classics, comedies, and we bring in amazing guests to help us unpack them. Think of it like a book club.

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[Ed Helms]

All you gotta do is listen to it. And by the way, listening is reading. It is not cheating. So if you want more great stories in your life, listen to earsay now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Using Venmo without cash back is like.

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[Ed Helms]

So this tank was not working well from the get go. In fact, every time the tank was filled, the groaning of the metal could be heard by nearby residents, a clear indication that something was amiss with the structural integrity of the tank itself. Complaints naturally came Flooding in. So what did this company, usia, do? Especially because there was so much visible leakage all around the tank. Well, they painted the tank brown to disguise all the leaks. That'll make the problem go away. Just. Yeah. And this is wild. This is really wild because it's something we see a lot in our SNAFU research here at the SNAFU podcast. People do not do the right thing. Just trying to cover their tracks or put band aids on terrible situations is, like, the norm. That's like, you know, that's what leads to. It is. Well. So this might surprise you. Molasses tank failures were not uncommon during this time period. They happened all over the U.S. that's incredible. Yeah, they happened all over the U.S. from New Orleans to Oakland to Hoboken. But on the flip side, most tanks were also not this enormous, like, absolutely massive.

On January 15, 1919, a ship arrived from the Caribbean to pump a huge delivery of fresh, warm molasses into the tank. Now, this is important to know. Like a lot of liquids, as molasses gets warmer, it flows much quicker. It has a lower viscosity. As it gets colder, it gets way more viscous, and it flows very, very slowly and thicker. As soon as they pump this tank full of molasses, something is off right away. No one considered the fact that the tank was already half full of cold molasses due to the previous day's freezing New England temperatures. It's kind of like pouring super hot coffee into a freezing cold glass. It shatters. Right. Because that is thermal shock. This actually happened in my kitchen a bunch of years ago. I pour bacon grease into a cup and then put it in the fridge to let it harden. And then I throw it away. Do you do that like a.

[Dan Tabursky]

No, That's a great idea.

[IBM Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Ed Helms]

Cause you can't pour it down the sink. Cause it'll clog your sink. So you put it in the fridge and it gets. It hardens. And then you can just sort of flip it out into your trash can. So I had done this and forgotten about it. And so it was like this cold bacon grease in my fridge. Then I made more bacon. I like bacon. I don't know what to tell you.

[Dan Tabursky]

Jesus Christ. Who cooks bacon? What century is this?

[Ed Helms]

What are you talking about?

[Dan Tabursky]

You, like, fry up a pan of bacon in your house. I've literally never. I'm sorry. Sorry. I'm just a little shocked.

[Ed Helms]

You've never cooked bacon in your house. What place? Murder. This is America.

[Dan Tabursky]

We did as a child. As a child, I just Like a rasher of bacon is just, I don't know, it seems very old fashioned. Well, I guess you're having molasses too.

[Ed Helms]

I'm from Georgia. We eat bacon. So I had another hot, like this hot bacon grease and I'm gonna dispose of it. So I just grabbed the cold glass of cold grease from previously, pour the hot grease in it and it sheared, it broke. A perfect.

Break at the line of the cold grease and the hot grease. And I was holding a ring of glass like in a perfectly clean break. And then of course, all the bacon grease shattered all over the floor with broken glass and one of the biggest messes I've ever made.

[Dan Tabursky]

That's pretty gross.

[Ed Helms]

My girlfriend at the time, now wife helped me clean it up and I was like, this is an amazing person who is willing to help me clean up bacon, bacon grease and broken glass. Like, that's a horrible mess.

[Dan Tabursky]

Yeah. But it actually sounds like it. It mimics exactly what's about to happen with the molasses.

[Ed Helms]

That is part of what, what is about to go down in this massive molasses tank. So people stated at the time that they heard a rumble, thinking it was a passing train, and they started to hear machine gun like sounds which were actually the fasteners popping off the tank. Now all of this happened right in the midst of lunch hour when everyone was out and about enjoying their warmer than usual January day. I don't even know if anyone knows what a machine gun is in 1920, but I'm still like getting out of there. The gigantic vat bulged and broke and In a flash, 2.3 million gallons of molasses formed a massive wave and rushed into the north end of Boston. A New York Times report described the event as, quote, a dull muffled roar gave but an instant's warning before the top of the tank was blown into the air. Wagons, carts and motor trucks were overturned. A number of horses were killed. The street was strewn with debris intermixed with molasses. And all traffic was stopped.

[Dan Tabursky]

Wow.

[Ed Helms]

It's kind of funny that they ended on all traffic was stopped, which seems like the most benign part of the incident. And all traffic was stopped.

[Dan Tabursky]

The horses thing was, a lot of people died too.

[Ed Helms]

Dan, we're getting to that. Yeah, well, the horses.

[Dan Tabursky]

But just, I mean, I'm just thinking about the people having to clean up the dead horses and molasses.

[Ed Helms]

It was.

[Dan Tabursky]

That's a mess.

[Ed Helms]

This is a massive snafu. It was an incredibly tragic event. So the swell moved at 35 miles an hour, which is the average speed of a cheetah. The molasses was initially. We try to give you context, Dan.

[Dan Tabursky]

No, I love it.

[Ed Helms]

I get it. So any, any cheetahs in the north end of Boston that day were fine because they got out in time.

So the molasses was initially warm from being initially added to the tank, but it quickly cooled as it spread through the streets. And this cooling caused it to thicken and become more viscous, making rescue eff extremely challenging. Here's a haunting quote from the Boston Post. The next day, horses died like so many flies on sticky flypaper. The more they struggled, the deeper in the mess they were ensnared. Human beings, men and women, suffered likewise.

It's grim. It's really grim. So molasses is also 1 1/2 times more dense than water. So if you're in its path, you weren't just like washed away, you were pummeled by this stuff.

[Dan Tabursky]

Yeah, yeah. You got hit by it.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah. It even pushed an entire firehouse off its foundation.

[Dan Tabursky]

Wow.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah. Are you good? In a disaster like this, I think.

[Dan Tabursky]

I would probably be a mess at first, but I think if it was a long term disaster, I think I would be one of the ones like, I can do apocalypse. I feel like I'm ready for that to go down.

[Ed Helms]

I have a very strong, like, urge to help. I will run towards someone in peril, but I can't guarantee you I'm not gonna go into shock, so. Whole buildings were crushed by this wave, and the remaining pools of molasses were one to three feet deep in some areas. According to records, 150 people were injured and 21 were tragically killed in the flood, many of whom worked for the harbor near the vat's location. Injuries were severe. Patients were carried into a makeshift hospital with broken backs and fractured skulls. Really, really dire stuff.

[Dan Tabursky]

Wow.

[Ed Helms]

Red Cross workers and a troop of 116 Navy cadets who were nearby actually tried to swim through the molasses to rescue people, but to no avail. At nightfall, the weather got cold, even colder, and the molasses got even harder and thicker. So rescue efforts just became next to impossible. Bodies were now getting trapped in amber, like crystallization. So it's almost like that mosquito in Richard Adams.

[Dan Tabursky]

Jurassic Park.

[IBM Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Ed Helms]

In his cane. But yeah, very, very grim. So we, we do have some photos I'm going to show you. This is an elevated train structure that was just like massively.

[Dan Tabursky]

Yeah.

[Ed Helms]

It almost knocked it over.

[Dan Tabursky]

Wow. Oh my God. They must have been such a mess. Like everybody Just must have been covered in this shit.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah, because it's. It's like, yes, it's a tragedy, but it's also sticky and gooey. We have another photo as well. This next one is damage on Commercial Street. You can actually see the collapsed tank in the center of this image just in front of the white colored building.

[Dan Tabursky]

Wow. Wow, that's so cool.

[Ed Helms]

The rescue effort went on for four entire days, mainly recovering bodies. The devastation was immense. Most of the victims had either suffocated or were crushed by debris that came through the flood. The north end was a mess and molasses coated the debris, making it like, to your point, it was insanely hard to clean up. But they did finally find a hack. There was a really interesting discovery on how to clean up molasses. Any idea how to clean up molasses?

[Dan Tabursky]

Feels like one of those tricks where, remember there would be a plate of water and you'd put pepper and salt in it, and then you'd put a drop of soap in the middle and it sends everything to the edge. I feel like it's something like that. Like it's some sort of, like, combination of things that makes it dissipate.

[Ed Helms]

Okay, it's not that dramatic, but it is clever. Like, I wouldn't have thought of it off the top of my head, but it turns out seawater helps dissolve molasses.

[Dan Tabursky]

Oh, interesting.

[Ed Helms]

That makes sense. I don't know why, but it does. And so, yeah, they started pumping water in from the Boston harbor, and after weeks of hosing down the whole area, the city was finally rid of the icky, sticky goo. Most of the molasses was washed into the Boston harbor itself, and residents reported that the water was brown for weeks. If only this coincided with the Boston Tea Party. Right, because then they might actually have a yummy new concoction floating around the.

[Dan Tabursky]

Oh, history.

[Ed Helms]

Tea and molasses. Earl Grey with molasses in the Boston Harbor.

[Dan Tabursky]

That sounds nice. I can't believe I've never heard of that. That's such a strange thing.

[Ed Helms]

It's one of those weird things where it smells good. So it's like a horrible tragedy, but with a good smell. I remember reading reports from these Iraq war veterans who talked about walking through carnage and being very traumatized by what they're seeing. But also.

A cologne delivery truck had exploded. And so there was this like, weird sweet stench of cologne washing over while they're looking at this carnage. And the cognitive dissonance of it was like. Was like, very traumatic for these guys.

[Dan Tabursky]

Isn't that new. There was something about that happened in New York as well, where every once in a while in New York, a smell will come over from New Jersey. And if it's a sweet smell.

[Ed Helms]

Oh, yeah, I read, and it was a mystery. It was like a pancake smell.

[Dan Tabursky]

Yes, yes, I remember that. And I think there are situations where actually that's like, a bad sign if that happens. Like, something's wrong, something's about to explode. There's molasses that's involved.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah. New York City stinks. Like, New York City does not smell good. And if it suddenly does smell good. Yeah. It's alarming. It's unsettling.

[Dan Tabursky]

It's alarming.

[Ed Helms]

No, it's like, no, no, no. Someone's gotta pee or take a shit right near me. So that just to Norma.

Yeah. But I remember that the pancake smell, they couldn't identify it for. I don't know if they ever did.

[Dan Tabursky]

But I don't think they did.

[Ed Helms]

That was wild. This one where they cleaned it with seawater. That is a stark replacement. Right. Because seawater don't smell good.

[Dan Tabursky]

Yeah.

[Ed Helms]

So if you're, like, washing seawater through the streets. Yeah, that's gonna go.

[Dan Tabursky]

Smelled good. Back then. You just saw horseshit and molasses.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah, you're right. You're right.

[Dan Tabursky]

Yeah. Like it was nothing. Smelled good.

[Ed Helms]

Hey, Ed Helms here. Now, if you're listening to Snafu, you.

[Cal Penn]

Probably love a good story, especially the.

[Ed Helms]

Kind that pulls you in, twists your brain a little, and leaves you wanting more. And you also like listening to that story. Well, if this describes you, I've got.

[Cal Penn]

Another podcast you should check out.

[Ed Helms]

It's called Irsay, the Audible and iHeart audiobook club. And I co host it with my.

[Cal Penn]

Good friend Cal Pennsylvania.

[Ed Helms]

Each week, we dive into some of the most compelling new audiobooks from audible. Thrillers, reimagined classics, comedies. And we bring in amazing guests to help us unpack them. Think of it like a book club.

[Cal Penn]

But with zero pressure to actually crack open the book.

[Ed Helms]

All you gotta do is listen to it. And by the way, listening is reading. It is not cheating. So if you want more great stories in your life, listen to earsay now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Using Venmo without cash back is like leaving your wallet open in a wind tunnel.

[Cal Penn]

Pick the right card, the Venmo debit card, and let the cash back roll in. It's not a financial miracle, just avoiding a classic everyday snafu. Because with Venmo Stash. You can get up to 5% cash back at your favorite brands. Just pick a bundle of your go tos to shop with your Venmo debit card and earn cash back at them and you're free to mix things up. You can easily swap out your bundle.

[Ed Helms]

Of brands every 30 days. Earn more cash when you do more with Stash.

[Cal Penn]

Venmo Stash terms and exclusions apply. Max $100 cash back per month. See terms at Venmo Me stashterms.

[IBM Advertiser]

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[Sophie Cunningham]

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[Ed Helms]

So what happened next? Countless accusations were thrown around in the weeks following the disaster. A class action lawsuit, of course, door versus the United States Industrial Alcohol Company was filed by 119 residents. Okay, so this is wild. The. So USIA blamed Italian anarchists. Oh, for an attack on the molasses tank. The accusation had an inkling of plausibility to it because anarchists had targeted USIA facilities during the war.

[Dan Tabursky]

Anarchists during bombings were a big deal in the early part of the century.

[Ed Helms]

That's absolutely true. The good old blame the anarchists excuse. Do you have any good, like, get out of jail cards?

Any good excuses?

[Dan Tabursky]

Anarchists. Yeah, I mean, anarchist.

[Ed Helms]

You take responsibility.

[Dan Tabursky]

I take responsibility. I'm. Yeah, I take responsibility.

[Ed Helms]

Come on, Dan. I already like you. You don't have to, like, burnish your image with me.

[Dan Tabursky]

I'm not trying to burn my image. I'm just trying to be honest and lovely.

[Ed Helms]

I'm just trying to be honest and lovely. God bless you for that. You are lovely. God damn it.

[Dan Tabursky]

Thank you.

[Ed Helms]

You are a goddamn lovely person. All right, back to it. Italian Americans who were often discriminated against and accused of being criminals at that time were the ones thrown under the bus here. After all, the VAT was put in the distinct neighborhood of the North End because residents couldn't advocate for themselves. This is obviously a very common practice in the United States. Low income neighborhoods are often the sites of industrial processes and wastelands. So the North End was majority Italian. And only 25% of these Italians were actually citizens at the time. With the ability to vote or effect change of any kind. The corporations knew they were safe to effectively misbehave in these environments, which is very tragic. These corporations are not lovely like you. They are not lovely like you.

[Cal Penn]

They don't even try.

[Ed Helms]

No, they are very un tabersky like. And I don't like that.

[Dan Tabursky]

It's not nice.

[Ed Helms]

This lawsuit was one of the earliest class actions in the state of Massachusetts and one of the first examples examples of pursuing corporate accountability and regulation. The lawsuit took several years. Over a thousand people testified, including family of the victims. And there were 1500 evidence exhibits. The defense spent tens of thousands of dollars on expert witnesses. And the judge, Hugh W. Ogden, was a war veteran who allegedly hated anarchists. Essentially everyone felt that this case was a massive long shot for the plaintiffs. What do you think? How are you feeling about their odds? We all love a courtroom drama.

[Dan Tabursky]

Yeah, but Italians back then, like, they didn't. They. I don't think they won. I think they lost.

[Ed Helms]

Surprise, surprise. April 28, 1925. Judge Ogden shockingly ruled in favor of the plaintiffs. I mean, I say shocking because of your. Your correct assumptions that it was very unusual at the time, Even though it was obviously the right thing to do. So for anyone keeping score at home, that means they were deliberating testimonies. For nearly five WHO years before the decision was made, the USIA's claim of anarchist sabotage was tossed aside like a stale Boston brown bread loaf. Instead, the USIA.

Just go with it.

All right?

[Dan Tabursky]

I didn't say a word.

[Ed Helms]

Instead, the USIA was then made to pay the victims families, the city of Boston and the Boston Elevated Railroad Co. $628,000 in damages. Close to 11 million in today's dollars. What would you do if you just like came into a massive windfall like that, Dan?

[Dan Tabursky]

I would enjoy the feeling that I'll have enough money to live till I die. I would just hang on to it, all right?

I'm expecting bad things in the future.

[Ed Helms]

Even if it was, I know you would splurge on something, even if it's just like a Something at cvs. Like, what would you. If you suddenly knew you were rich beyond your wildest dreams?

[Dan Tabursky]

Like, what would be on my wildest dreams?

[Ed Helms]

Or would you just go on Amazon and be like, yes, I want that wall Charger. I want that.

[Dan Tabursky]

You know, I've always thought it would be interesting. I wouldn't want to ride a motorcycle. Like, nothing too loud. But I've always said it would feel really nice, like a chopper. Like to be driving slow, like down the. So I think I could really get into that and like, drive around, like, do a little zen on the auto motorcycle maintenance and just like, tour the country and find myself with my motorcycle.

[Ed Helms]

And not just a motorcycle, but a chopper with, like, the wheel way out front.

[Dan Tabursky]

Well, I like that feeling. I feel like you can't go that fast on that. It feels a little more sturdy than a regular. I like that. Just like you can't.

[Ed Helms]

I like that too.

[Dan Tabursky]

Yeah, that's a. I'm looking for a buddy to go driving with.

[Ed Helms]

Head out on the highway looking for adventure.

[Dan Tabursky]

What would you do? What would you do with. If you just came into a bunch of money?

[Ed Helms]

I feel like it would be a ton of little dumb things. Like, I would just go to my favorite catalogs and be like, I. That shirt. This.

[Dan Tabursky]

Yeah, totally.

[Ed Helms]

No, but if there was a big splurge. I don't know. I've always wanted to be a helicopter pilot.

[Dan Tabursky]

Huh.

[Ed Helms]

I don't know. I just think they're so cool.

[Dan Tabursky]

Would you buy a helicopter?

[Ed Helms]

I guess. I mean, how do you be a helicopter pilot? Like, do you rent them? How does it work?

[Dan Tabursky]

You could rent.

[Ed Helms]

Seem very expensive.

Not very practical, right?

[Dan Tabursky]

Or maybe you share them. Maybe you like. Or maybe you, like, buy a share in a helicopter or something like that. Helicopter pilot would be fun, actually.

[Ed Helms]

Obviously, helicopters are. We use them in movies all the time. And on Hangover 2, when we're shooting in Bangkok on this speedboat and this helicopter pilot, who's. Who's supposedly like the best.

Camera chopper pilot, was zooming. We're going 60 miles an hour on this speedboat and he's zooming right all around us. And at one point he's like, we're zooming this way and he's going along next to us. Like the chopper's flying sideways next to us, which is called crabbing. It's like going sideways, but it's 60 miles an hour. And he just sticks his hand out the window and waves at us.

We're like two hands on the wheel, buddy.

[Dan Tabursky]

Wow, that must feel like freedom that must feel incredible to be riding around something that facile that turns like that stands still. Yeah, it's amazing.

[Ed Helms]

So terrifying for us because we're flying so close, but also just an absolute thrill.

[Dan Tabursky]

That must have been one of those days where just half the fun is like, I can't believe we're doing this.

[Ed Helms]

This is so amazing. Oh my God, there's amazing. So many of the. Every day to me on a movie set is, I can't believe I'm doing this. It is truly the most fun thing in the world. I can't believe I get to do it.

[Dan Tabursky]

Oh, that's nice.

[Ed Helms]

So this lawsuit was one of the earliest class actions in Massachusetts and one of the first examples of pursuing corporate accountability and regulation. They proved that a corporation could be held account accountable for negligence, putting a pin in the era of unquestioned support for big business. And this was the beginning of a greater governmental oversight and regulations, in essence, a small way of setting the groundwork for FDR's New Deal politics and infrastructure reform a few decades later. It does make me think of this story, that this story would make a good documentary. Daniel, when you start to approach a story, how often do you sort of have assumptions or expectations of what the ending might be?

[Dan Tabursky]

Usually I'll go, if I'm doing something, I will go into it with like three or four possibilities of what I think the ending is. So you can't just go blind.

But I always have some idea so that if one way doesn't work out, I'm not screwed. There's still another sort of way to sort of finish the story in a satisfying way. So I like to consider the possibilities and hopefully one of them will be the one that happens.

[Ed Helms]

That's how I do it.

[Dan Tabursky]

But I like complexity. I really do. It's what makes it interesting.

[Ed Helms]

Sure. And there's that old adage about documentaries that the best ones are the sort of ones that make a left turn somewhere in the process. Your amazing piece, the line about the Navy seal, Eddie Gallagher.

That was an incredible. That had a very surprising ending to me because you kind of like somehow.

How you handled that him as an interview subject gave him a sense of safety or comfort or wanting to be transparent or something powerful that, that I won't spoil for listeners. But he shared some just really breathtaking points of view that I was very, very affected and moved and stunned by that one.

[Dan Tabursky]

Wow. Oh, that's so nice of you to say. Yeah, it was an absolutely incredible conversation and I was stunned as well. And I still I listened to that like six months ago. I was looking for something and just trying to remember how it went down and still like, I can't believe he said it, the things he said. And yeah, it was really a shocker. It was a shocker, but fascinating.

[Ed Helms]

Well, I think it's due in large part to how lovely you are, Dan Tabursky.

[Dan Tabursky]

Aw, thank you. That's what he said too. Yeah, of course. He said, dan, I know I'm an ABC O, but you're pretty lovely. Thanks, man.

[Ed Helms]

So jumping back into it, here's a fun fact. The molasses industry in Boston never regained its prominence. Investigations were.

[Dan Tabursky]

Yeah, what a sad story.

[Ed Helms]

Investigations were opened in the years following and they found a host of problems with the tank construction. The tank was made with too little of the metal manganese, so it was too brittle in temperatures below 60 degrees, which for Boston would be like most of the time.

[Dan Tabursky]

Yeah.

[Ed Helms]

And the steel used was thinner than would be specified in the plans. Due to the scrutiny and the years long lawsuit, USIA never built a new tank and eventually shuttered the doors of their Boston production plant entirely. Without the molasses giant, the Boston molasses industry collapsed. So clearly the impact of this event.

Stuck both in the hearts of those in Boston and in the history of corporate regulation that we see today. After the flood, Boston was tacky for weeks. No, no winks there. I'm using the word tacky literally. Yeah. Boston was tacky for weeks. And legend has it that on hot summer days, it. It still smells like molasses.

[Dan Tabursky]

Amazing. I love that. I love that. It must have been weeks and weeks and weeks to get that sort of stickiness and smell out. I mean, it's just. It's really amazing.

[Cal Penn]

Yeah.

[Ed Helms]

Molasses is a. Is no joke. Yeah, it's.

[Dan Tabursky]

It's no joke.

[Ed Helms]

Like, you don't want, like. It's hard to get that out of a shirt. Yes. Let alone out of a city. I love this story. It's. It's a tragic story in Boston's history. It's. To me, it. It's such a city specific story that it reminds me of the great fires of Chicago or San Francisco. It's like, you know, and it has that apocalypse because it's molasses. It has this kind of apocryphal feel that is like so wild. Like the, like Ms. O' Leary's cow in Chicago that kicked over the lantern. Supposedly these stories sort of reach almost like fable status or sort of like urban mythology, but they're totally true. True yeah, 100 true.

[Dan Tabursky]

That's incredible.

[Ed Helms]

I did a little bit of digging and found that class action lawsuits have reached an all time high in the last three years with over $159 billion in settlements. Now, class action suits obviously have their pros and cons. While they might help a broader group to gain lower cost of litigation and incentivize them to pursue their rights, they've also drawn criticism for leading to lower payouts, inflated benefits to lawyers and loss of individual control. But I've always thought the right to class action suit is actually quite inspiring and a great tool for consumer protection. It's almost like the right to collective bargaining for unions. Like when large groups of people that don't have a voice when they work together can actually have a very powerful voice. And I've always thought the anti union sentiment in our country is very confusing, especially coming from the right because it's such a free speech.

To me, it's the ultimate expression of free speech. It's just saying how can we get together.

And like, like be a louder voice when traditionally it's the wealthy and the powerful that have the loudest voices.

[Dan Tabursky]

Well, it's also a part. It's part of how you make economies where especially with things like class action lawsuits and labor unions, like, it's how you make economies work more efficiently. If you don't let individuals act as groups to sort of increase their power to the size that it should be.

Then you're not. It's all. Then the whole thing's out of whack.

[Ed Helms]

All right, Dan Taburski, is there anything in your professional world that you can plug or talk about or spill any beans? Tease us with the exciting things that you're up to. You're one of my favorite podcasters in the world. What's on deck?

[Dan Tabursky]

I'm working on two things. Both will come out next year, both of which I can't disclose, but I think they're both gonna be good. They're different good. And the one that's coming out actually has Italian anarchists in the 1920s, which I was so excited to talk about. So it's connected.

[Ed Helms]

As I said earlier, go do a deep dive on Dan Taburski's work so that you're prepared for how awesome these upcoming projects are gonna be. And also, yeah, your oeuvre. I like that. Good word. Thanks. And also congratulations to both of us for winning a Peabody on this episode, I assume.

[Dan Tabursky]

And I'll see you at the awards there.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah. Dan, I can't thank you enough. For coming on. It's so so fun to see you and hang out. Thanks for being here.

[Dan Tabursky]

So great to see you man. Anytime.

[Ed Helms]

All right, cheers. SNAFU is a production of iHeart podcasts and SNAFU Media, a partnership between Film Nation Entertainment and Pacific Electric Picture Company. Our post production studio is Gilded Audio. Our executive producers are me, Ed Helms, Mike Falbow, Glenn Base, Andy Kim, Whitney Donaldson and Dylan Fagan. This episode was produced by Alyssa Martino and Tori Smith. Our video editor is Jared Smith.

[Cal Penn]

Technical direction and engineering from Nick Dooley.

[Ed Helms]

Our creative executive is Brett Harris. Logo and branding by the Collected Works Legal review from Dan Welch, Megan Halson and Caroline Johnson. Special thanks to Isaac Dunham, Adam Horne, Lane Klein and everyone at I Heart Podcasts, but especially Will Pearson, Kerry Lieberman, Nikki Etor, Nathan Otosky and Alex Corral. While I have you, don't forget to pick up a copy of my book SNAFU the Definitive Guide to History's Greatest Screw Ups. It's available now from any book retailer. Just go to snafu-book.com thanks for listening and see you next week. Foreign.

Hey folks, Ed Helms here. If you love audiobooks like I do.

[Cal Penn]

And let's be honest, who doesn't love.

[Ed Helms]

Being read too, then you gotta check out my new podcast with Cal Penn. It's called Earsay, the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club. Every week we nerd out with amazing guests and dive into the best new audiobooks from Audible. Thrillers, classics, comedy, you name it. And hey, listening is reading. Okay? It's not cheating, it's just awesome. Follow earsay now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Using Venmo without cash back is like leaving your wallet open in a wind tunnel.

[Cal Penn]

Pick the right card, the Venmo debit card and let the cash back roll in. It's not a financial miracle, just just avoiding a classic everyday snafu. Because with Venmo Stash you can get up to 5% cash back at your favorite brands. Just pick a bundle of your go tos to shop with your Venmo debit card and earn cash back at them and you're free to mix things up. You can easily swap out your bundle.

[Ed Helms]

Of brands every 30 days. Earn more cash when you do more with Stash.

[Cal Penn]

Venmo Stash terms and exclusions apply. Max 100 cash back per month. See Terms at Venmo Me Stash Terms.

[Sophie Cunningham]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.