SNAFU with Ed Helms - S4E13: Jon Lovett and the Donner Party

Date: December 31, 2025
Guests: Jon Lovett (Pod Save America, Crooked Media)
Theme: A comic but insightful deep dive into the infamous Donner Party disaster, exploring themes of American optimism, disastrous shortcuts, cannibalism, and what the story reveals about human nature—with sharp comedic banter and personal asides.

Episode Overview

This episode of SNAFU focuses on the tragic and infamous story of the Donner Party—the group of westward pioneers trapped in the Sierra Nevada in 1846, resulting in starvation and eventual cannibalism. Host Ed Helms and guest Jon Lovett examine both the practical blunders and larger cultural meanings of the Donner Party, using trademark humor and personal anecdotes to connect the historical fiasco to modern life, resilience, and what it means to hope in the face of grim odds.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Setting the Stage & Guest Introduction

• [01:37] Ed Helms introduces Jon Lovett as a “whip smart, world class communicator,” praising his comedic timing and ability to maintain hope despite engagement with America’s political turmoil.
• Hope vs. Anger as Motivation ([03:15])
  • Jon Lovett: “The truth is, for me, I think hope's important...But it's never been my motivator, to be honest. I've always been motivated by anger...these problems are solvable.”
  • He describes anger not just at political opponents but at solvable problems going unfixed, using a “nacho buffet line” anecdote to illustrate his need to fix dysfunction, large or small.

2. Survivor, Cannibalism, and Segue to the Donner Story

• [06:07] Lovett jokes about only missing three dinners on his Survivor stint—well short of pondering cannibalism.
• Ed Helms segues into the episode’s main history lesson: “Today's snafu does involve actual cannibalism...We're talking about the Donner Party.” ([06:42])

3. Background: Manifest Destiny & Pioneer Mindset

• [06:57] Helms contextualizes 1846 as an era of Manifest Destiny (“the 19th-century version of ‘I want it and God said I could have it’”), highlighting settlers’ motivations as practical, not adventurous.
• Personal Reflections on Starting Over ([07:47])
  • Lovett recounts his own youthful fantasy of "going west"—ultimately ingesting it with a dose of “Jewish pragmatism” by making Alaska about “becoming a paralegal.”

4. The Donner Party: Cast and Catastrophe

• Party Members Introduced ([09:27]):
  • Brothers George and Jacob Donner, the Reed family, teamsters (“oxen drivers, not union truckers—more hay, less honking”).
• Teenage Hierarchies on the Trail:
  • Helms recounts the wagons’ amenities through Virginia Reed’s perspective.
• Lovett’s Own Road-Trip Disaster ([11:54])
  • Lovett humorously describes his experience of gastrointestinal distress on Air Force One (“I’m shitting my brains out on Air Force One while it’s landing...a high, high, low low day”).

5. The Actual Fiasco: Disaster in Stages

• Late Departure ([16:03])
  • The Donner party left nearly a month late—“May 12th is way late in the season.”
• Travel Planning Analogies ([16:48])
  • Both hosts riff on obsessiveness, cell-phone navigation, and the pitfalls of over-reliance on technology.
  • Quote:
    • [17:42] Ed Helms: “Hot take, John Lovett. I think the Internet might be bad.”
• Hastings Cutoff Debacle ([18:47])
  • Enter Lansford Hastings, a conman pitchman for a shortcut to California he’d never traveled, adding 125 miles and costing weeks.
  • Modern parallels:
    • Lovett: “If there was a Reddit forum in 18...it would have said do not do Hastings Cutoff.”
    • [20:51] Discussion of how both then and now, people fall prey to shortcuts pitched by smooth talkers with nice mustaches.

6. Fights, Division, and Desperation

• Reed’s Banishment ([21:30])
  • Reed kills John Snyder during a fight; rather than hang him, the party banishes Reed with only a horse.
  • Survivor parallels—Lovett describes being voted off and the “consolation menu.”
• Small acts of love: Virginia Reed sneaks supplies to her father.

7. Trapped by Snow and Cannibalism

• Winter Strikes ([24:44])
  • Trapped by five feet of snow, supplies dwindle.
• The Forlorn Hope ([25:38])
  • A group of 15 sets out with homemade snowshoes; most die, but some reach help.
• Did the Donner Party really become cannibals?
  • Lovett: “Yes, I do.”
  • Helms confirms, citing historian Michael Wallace—cannibalism did occur but largely involved the deceased, not murder-for-food.
  • Monty Python & ortolan references used for comic relief.

8. Rescue and Grim Aftermath

• Relief Efforts ([32:56])
  • Banished Reed, now in California, rallies rescue parties after telling his story in what becomes San Francisco.
• Multiple Rescue Waves—first crew saves 23, including Margaret and Virginia Reed, but youngest children must be left behind.
• Cannibalism Logistics & Dark Humor
  • Lovett & Helms riff on “respectful” methods of cannibalism (spicing or not spicing, which cuts to eat first, etiquette of eating friends), blending morbid and absurd.
    • [35:17] Lovett: “Is it more respectful to eat human flesh unseasoned...or as tasty as possible?”
    • [42:13] Lovett: “I haven’t been going to Pilates all this time to have you not eat my ass.”

9. Wider Lessons and Modern Parallels

• Survival, Agency, and Modern America ([40:49])
  • Helms: “The Donner Party. Kind of a grim reminder of how far people will go when they’re sold a dream. Ignore the warning signs and follow bad advice deep into the wilderness...”
  • Lovett: “It’s also a reminder that...we gotta keep moving and nobody’s coming, that we have to save ourselves.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Hope and Anger
  • “Hope makes demands of us. And it requires you to do things.” – Jon Lovett [04:31]
• On Historical Blunders and Today
  • “It kind of feels like America right now in a nutshell: a little bit desperate people promised easy shortcuts, left starving in the cold while the guy who gave them the map is nowhere to be found.” – Ed Helms [40:49]
• On Cannibalism Etiquette
  • “Is it more respectful to eat this human flesh unseasoned so that the aesthetic experience matches the moral experience, or is it more respectful to flavor it, cook it well, make it as tasty as possible so you get the best experience?” – Jon Lovett [35:32]
  • “From the comfort of our respective recording studios… I’m spicing the hell out of it.” – Ed Helms [36:06]
  • “Don’t sleep on the cheeks… I haven’t been going to Pilates all this time to have you not eat my ass.” – Jon Lovett [42:10]
• On Taking Shortcuts
  • “If there was a Reddit forum in 18(46)... It would say: Do not (take) Hastings Cutoff.” – Jon Lovett [20:02]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Hope & Anxiety in Politics: [03:15–05:54]
• Cannibalism segue & introducing the Donner Party: [06:07–07:00]
• Manifest Destiny & the “Go West” Mindset: [06:57–08:45]
• Disastrous Decisions (Hastings Cutoff): [18:47–20:51]
• Reed’s Banishment & Family Bonds: [21:30–24:42]
• Descent Into Cannibalism: [25:38–27:07]
• Discussion of Etiquette, Humor about Cannibalism: [35:17–36:53], [42:10–42:13]
• Rescue & Aftermath (modern parallels): [32:56–41:15]

Tone & Style

Ed Helms and Jon Lovett’s banter remains quick, dry, and sharp throughout, blending irreverent humor (“I struggle at a best Western, so I can't imagine if I'm at the actual least western”) with moments of poignant insight about hope, cynicism, and perseverance. Dark as it gets, both hosts navigate the grim reality with comic relief—making the historical horrors both accessible and revealing about human psychology.

Final Thoughts & Takeaways

• The Donner Party remains a cautionary tale about the perils of ignoring hard-won guidance, falling for shortcuts, and the ways adversity reveals both the worst and best in people.
• The story is tied to present-day themes—how hope, action, and resilience (as well as skepticism of easy answers) are just as necessary now as they were then.
• Despite its macabre details, Lovett and Helms use the Donner disaster to reflect on our collective need for agency, the traps of cynicism, and the power of humor as a survival tool.

Ed Helms’ ultimate lesson:
"The Donner Party. Kind of a grim reminder of how far people will go when they're sold a dream, ignore the warning signs and follow bad advice deep into the wilderness." [40:49]

Jon Lovett’s upshot:
"We shouldn't really stay put, that we gotta keep moving and nobody's coming, that we have to save ourselves." [41:15]

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