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Ed Helms (2:17)

Visit your nearby Lowe's on Colorado street in Kennewick. Welcome to Snafu, the show about history's greatest screw ups. I'm Ed Helms and today I am joined by a prolific actor, comedian, writer and director. He co hosts the podcast we're here to help with fellow funnyman Gareth Reynolds. But you likely know our guest as the voice of Peter Parker in Into the Spider Verse, as Doug in the Minx, or as the beloved Nick Miller from the now modern classic hit New Girl. He was of Course. Also my hilarious co star in the film Tag, Please welcome Jake Johnson.

Jake Johnson (2:57)

Thanks, Ed. Nice to see you, pal.

Ed Helms (2:59)

We'll put in some applause and, like.

Jake Johnson (3:01)

You know, roaring three to four minutes of hard applause.

Ed Helms (3:04)

Yeah, exactly. Standing ovation, sound effects. Jake Johnson's here.

Jake Johnson (3:10)

Yes.

Ed Helms (3:10)

We, of course, became acquainted on the movie Tag, which was just a goddamn delight. How fun was that? I mean, we had our ups and downs on the production, but it was a hell of a lot of fun.

Jake Johnson (3:24)

Apart from Renner breaking both his arms during a stunt.

Ed Helms (3:28)

Oh, my God.

Jake Johnson (3:29)

Remember that crazy day in the church?

Ed Helms (3:31)

Of course I remember that.

Jake Johnson (3:33)

Insane.

Ed Helms (3:34)

Okay, so just for the listener, we're doing this scene where Jeremy Renner is chasing us and he's on. He does that Fred Astaire chair move where he's, you know, where you, like, stand on the back of a chair and then let it fall down and then you keep going. Only the sort of bit was that this was a stack of like 30 chairs. So it was like 20ft tall.

Jake Johnson (3:57)

Yeah, it was high.

Ed Helms (3:59)

And he sort of falls down, but in a controlled way off on this stack of chairs and then keeps running. And he was wearing a harness to make the fall smooth and not harmful to his body. This. There was some malfunction. He landed on both his arms. Both of his arms broke.

Jake Johnson (4:20)

Yes.

Ed Helms (4:20)

And he went to the hospital and was back on set that afternoon.

Jake Johnson (4:27)

Shocking.

Ed Helms (4:28)

Still shooting. Do you remember that?

Jake Johnson (4:31)

And I'll tell you, we've talked about this, but there are certain things you've said that are not for Jake. Breaking your arms and returning to shoot a scene in Tag. Not for Jake. If I break my arms, not for Jake.

Ad Read Voice 1 (4:43)

I'm.

Jake Johnson (4:43)

Hold up for a while. I'm in a hospital room. I'm expecting visitors. I'm expecting a lot of you were so brave for doing that. I'm not going back to work. And then do you remember he has to throw coffee, I think, at me.

Ed Helms (4:55)

Yeah.

Jake Johnson (4:55)

Where I run by him and he throws. But he had to use his broken arm. And I was like, I would like to complain about the fact that I need to slide on the ground, but I can't do that because he's throwing something at me. Okay.

Ed Helms (5:09)

Because he's doing another stunt with broken arms.

Jake Johnson (5:12)

With broken arms. That, to me, was really wild. Do you remember the scene in the church also when it was you, me, Hannibal, and probably Ham, but I'm not sure. And Hannibal farted on camera and then got upset with us when we laughed as if he were the ones not being professional and said, come on, man. Stand it.

Ed Helms (5:39)

I do.

Jake Johnson (5:39)

And I said, I can't.

Ad Read Voice 1 (5:41)

You can't.

Jake Johnson (5:41)

That's impossible to do.

Ed Helms (5:43)

I do remember that. That was. That was pure sa. Oh, my God. There were so many hard laughs on that set. So many ridiculous experiences. And then this is like, we'll probably cut this because this is like some celebrity whining. But I remember being so excited because they're like, hey, we got a jet for the whole cast. And we're gonna. That's how we're gonna travel on this press tour. So we're all flying together, and I'm like, oh, this is great. We get private airports, luxury jet. It was like a battered old.

Jake Johnson (6:21)

Like.

Ed Helms (6:22)

Like a school bus with wings.

Jake Johnson (6:24)

Literally.

Ed Helms (6:24)

It was like a 1970s, like, Southwest retired airplane. And it was such a piece of junk. It was like, I mean, okay, please.

Jake Johnson (6:38)

Don'T cut that, Ed. And I just remember being like, good. Oh, yeah, this is tag.

Ed Helms (6:45)

Seriously, Just the disappointment. It's like we're getting to the end to the. Oh, we're at a private airport. Like, this is gonna be so great. It's so fun and great. And then we get on and it's like, oh, these. The seats are torn. Like, there's rats running around in this airplane.

Jake Johnson (7:04)

I would rather be on a good.

Ed Helms (7:06)

It smells like cigarettes.

Jake Johnson (7:08)

Like, he was a Greyhound airplane hadn't.

Ed Helms (7:10)

Been cleaned since people smoked on planes. It was Greyhound. It was a Greyhound airplane is what it was.

Jake Johnson (7:15)

That's great. I do. That's great stuff, man.

Ed Helms (7:19)

Okay, so we have to get into the story. This is a really. This is a fun one. It's pretty arbitrary how you wound up doing this story. I don't have. Usually I try to connect the guests in some way. In this case, I was like, this is just kind of a funny story, and I think Jake will like it. So I hope this story is for Jake.

Jake Johnson (7:37)

I love it.

Ed Helms (7:42)

Today we're heading back to the age of musket powder and doodle dandies. This story takes us to the late 1700s, when America was but a mere toddler and growing pains were all but expected. Wildly enough, one of the most intriguing political stalemates of the time revolved around measurements for distance and weight. Yes, today we're diving into the embattled and complex history of. Of the United States relationship with the metric system. Sounds boring, but it is not. It is not. Trust me on this. More specifically, we're diving into the tragic story of French scientist and explorer Joseph Dombey. And you will understand why very shortly. There's obviously the Metric system and the imperial system. Here in the United States, we use the imperial system. There are two other countries that still use that. The rest of the world is all metric. Do you know those other countries? I mean, there's. I would be amazed if you do.

Ad Read Voice 1 (8:35)

No.

Ed Helms (8:36)

Liberia and Myanmar.

Jake Johnson (8:39)

Never would I have guessed those.

Ed Helms (8:41)

No, of course not.

Jake Johnson (8:42)

Gunned in my head I couldn't have found those two.

Ed Helms (8:44)

And I'm not disappointed in you. I didn't expect you to know those things.

Jake Johnson (8:47)

I'll take it. So we're the only three?

Ed Helms (8:50)

Yeah. So now, if it were up to Thomas Jefferson, we would have incorporated the metric system long, long ago. However, according to legend, the fault lay at the feet of neither Jefferson nor Joseph Dumbay, but pirates. Alright, before we go any further, here's why measurement standards actually matter. A shared system of measurement is the quiet backbone of civilization. It's how trade functions, science agrees on reality, and buildings don't mysteriously end up a few inches too short. Historically though, measurements were a mess because they were often based on local customs, a king's body part, or whatever some royal person thought a foot should be. That year, back in 1495, King Henry VII of England tried to bring some order to the chaos by standardizing units like the bushel, peck, gallon and court that would eventually become the imperial system that we use today. Feet, pounds, and all that stuff. Fast forward a few centuries and the 13 colonies win their independence from Great Britain. But they still need Britain as a trading partner. So America stuck with the imperial system. The problem was everyone used it differently. A foot in Williamsburg might not match a foot in Philadelphia. And New York is like doing its own thing. They have the Dutch system. It's just like a total mess. In 1790, across the Atlantic, and in the middle of their own revolution, France's national assembly turned to their Academy of Sciences and basically said, please invent a measurement system that can survive chaos. That's cool. Which means try to deduce an invariable standard for all measurements and weights, et cetera. This is like how the Enlightenment worked, right? This is sort of peak Enlightenment thinking. The idea was that nature is impartial. Kings get beheaded, governments collapse, but the planet is constant. It keeps spinning. So if you base your measurements on nature itself, they will outlast wars and revolutions and very bad political decisions. And that's how we arrived at the meter, which was named after the Greek word metron, meaning measure, standard or rule. This was again France's National Assembly. They defined the meter as 1/10 millionth of the distance from the North Pole to the equator. Then built everything else from there. Weight, volume, surface area and the whole thing scaled up or down using a very simple decimal system, all based on the number 10. And this was really badass. Like, this system worked. It was very simple. And this got Thomas Jefferson really excited. So on July 4, 1790, he brought the concept of metrication to Congress. Massive spoiler alert. Congress was like, nope, no thanks.

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Ad Read Voice 2 (11:48)

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Ed Helms (11:49)

Yeah, pass.

Jake Johnson (11:50)

Don't fully get it.

Venmo Ad Voice (11:50)

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Jake Johnson (11:51)

You're a smart guy, tj. But it's a pass for us. We are going to. They sound like like executives. Congress was Hollywood executives. When you try to pitch original ip. Nah. Pass.

Ed Helms (12:04)

We're big fans of you and we also love this idea. We think this idea has legs and we honestly. Do you ever get this one? Can't wait to see that movie. I can't wait to see that movie.

Jake Johnson (12:15)

That's what they said to Thomas Jefferson.

Ed Helms (12:17)

Yeah, yeah. We've got something too similar we can't do. It's like it just. No, no, no.

Venmo Ad Voice (12:23)

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Ed Helms (12:24)

The metric system replaces the Imperial. Yeah, but does it?

Jake Johnson (12:28)

This is a brilliant idea. Honestly, the people above me are no, but I'm a yes, but let's just think of another. Come back in a couple weeks with something new. But let's just keep this one as is.

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Ed Helms (15:59)

But he didn't give up. He had friends in high places, and as the former ambassador to France, he noticed that their system really seemed to be clicking along pretty well. So by 1793, the history gets a little fuzzy. It's unclear whether Jefferson officially placed the Order. Or if France was simply eager to export their own shiny new system abroad. But what is clear is that France sent one of their brightest minds. Physician and botanist and overall badass. Explorer Joseph Dombey, carrying two precious artifacts to the United States. A metal rod measuring exactly one meter. This was like a standard that could then be used as a sort of master standard. And a small copper cylinder weighing precisely 1kg, also to be a standard. But as Dombey will soon learn, nothing invites disaster quite like crossing the Atlantic with priceless objects and a calm sense of optimism.

Jake Johnson (17:00)

Well, this comes to the pirates.

Ed Helms (17:02)

Oh, yeah, it's about to get piratey. So Joseph Dombey set sail for Philadelphia in January of 1794 from the port of Le Havre, off the northern French coast. He was aboard a brig owned by a merchant stationed in New York, Joseph Lepine. We should have a picture of Joseph Dombey. Let's take a look.

Jake Johnson (17:25)

That guy wasn't striking at 20.

Ed Helms (17:27)

I feel like he's distinguished.

Jake Johnson (17:29)

I'm just.

Ed Helms (17:29)

I'm just worried he's not wearing any clothes.

Jake Johnson (17:32)

I feel like it was his choice. I know this as a fact. He was wearing no bottoms during the thing. And the artist kept saying, joseph, do you want to put something on? And he goes, this will do. And they go, it's just the top half. You could wear a tie. This will do.

Ed Helms (17:47)

We could even put a blanket over. It's. It's drafty in here.

Jake Johnson (17:51)

I said, this will do. Okay, Joseph, I mean, so I'm distracted by your genitals, and so I'm asking you to put shorts on. This will do. Okay, let's just do it.

Ed Helms (18:07)

This was supposed to be a full body sculpture. I'm just going to do a bus.

Jake Johnson (18:11)

Exactly. Also, Joseph, can you not make direct eye contact with me while I'm sculpting? Because you're intimidating me. You want to smile a little bit or something less scary and menacing because you're naked.

Ed Helms (18:24)

He's actually a pretty badass guy, as. As we will find out.

Jake Johnson (18:33)

Oh.

Ed Helms (18:33)

Joey Dombey. He wasn't just a scientist. He was a seasoned transatlantic explorer. Unfortunately, he had also spectacularly bad luck. He spent two years in Peru collecting specimens, plant specimens for France, only to have his ship captured by the British and the plants seized. Then he tried again in Chile on a joint venture with Spain, which ended up in a dispute, and the Spanish team confiscated all his work. So third time's the charm, right? Well, no, because after smooth sailing across most of the Atlantic, they reached the Caribbean, and that's when everything went sideways. On February 12, a fierce tropical storm knocked the ship off course, damaged it, and left it taking on water. So they limped to the nearest port, Guadalupe, which is a French archipelago in the Caribbean about 1400 miles southeast of Florida. If you had made it this far on a journey and then just got your ass kicked by a crazy storm and wound up on this, like, beautiful tropical island, would you maybe just be like, this is where I stay, Ed.

Jake Johnson (19:35)

You know my answer, guys, we made it. And they go, but this isn't.

Ed Helms (19:43)

It is.

Jake Johnson (19:44)

This was always the goal, really. Now I'm going to take my clothes off and hope somebody sculpts me. We're home, boys. We made it. I will never get on that sea again. This is it. Our story has, in fact, changed.

Ed Helms (19:59)

But there's very little here. There's coconuts.

Jake Johnson (20:02)

What do you mean, very little here?

Ed Helms (20:04)

There's trees. There's fish everywhere.

Jake Johnson (20:08)

There's probably an animal or two. How should I know?

Ed Helms (20:11)

I'm sure there's rum.

Jake Johnson (20:15)

Well, you know everything that's on this island. I don't think so.

Ed Helms (20:19)

Not yet.

Jake Johnson (20:21)

Yet. But I'm telling you what, we're not leaving again. I know that for sure.

Ed Helms (20:28)

Well, D is not deterred. He's still very eager to get to the United States.

Jake Johnson (20:36)

And what city did he want to go to again? Was it. Did you say Philly? I mean, you imagine he's in the Caribbean and he's like, I have to get to Philadelphia.

Ed Helms (20:43)

But have you been to Philadelphia? Yeah, it's right. Joey.

Jake Johnson (20:47)

I'm telling you, Joseph, first of all, put clothes on. Second of all, don't worry about getting to Philly. It's November, my king.

Ad Read Voice 1 (20:55)

It's cold.

Jake Johnson (20:55)

It's gnarly.

Ed Helms (20:57)

Really unusual accent, too.

Jake Johnson (21:00)

Shockingly tough. Even the kids. Yeah.

Ed Helms (21:02)

Unfortunately, Dombey's perilous situation was about to get even worse because he fell dangerously ill. And now, on top of that, this is. Even if you're sick? I'm not getting back on a boat if I'm sick. But this is. Dombey is, like, determined. They couldn't even get the ship fully repaired, so it set sail again, still partially damaged. Then on April 1, the ship was intercepted by British privateers.

Jake Johnson (21:29)

Can I say something about Joseph that I know is a fact now after hearing about him and the fact that he has bad luck, and he set sail again, and the boat wasn't ready and pirates got him, and he's naked in his sculptures. I wouldn't say he has bad luck. I think he makes bad decisions. I think For a super smart guy, he doesn't make the best life choices. The boat is not ready. The ship's not ready. They're going like this. I don't think it's going to get there. And he goes, I think we're ready. Not ready. Let's go now. Ready? We crashed into an island with your first idea. Joey, we're not ready. Let's go. You imagine the pirates getting on that and seeing them.

Ed Helms (22:13)

Yeah. Well, we're about to get there. This is actually quite interesting. So the ship is intercepted by British privateers, and now these are essentially government sanctioned pirates. At the time, Britain legally outsourced piracy. If you robbed the enemy, the crown called it patriotism and took a cut. And at the time, Britain and France were essentially in perpetual conflict. And this made all French ships traveling the Atlantic legitimate targets. The pirates boarded Dombey's ship. He scrambled below deck, throwing his clothes off as he ran, apparently. So he. The evidently he was wearing.

Jake Johnson (22:51)

Did it say that?

Ed Helms (22:52)

It does, because then he changed into the clothes of one of. One of the Spanish sailors who were.

Jake Johnson (23:02)

He was trying to. He ripped his clothes off while he was being chased by pirates?

Ed Helms (23:07)

No, before they boarded, he ran, he scrambled below deck.

Jake Johnson (23:11)

He's like, his first thought is, you imagine working on that ship and not respecting your leader's choices. And you're like, we're back on the water, the boat's not ready. And then you go, you go, guys, these are government sanctioned pirates. And your captain goes, everybody take off your clothes.

Ed Helms (23:29)

He doesn't tell the crew to take.

Jake Johnson (23:31)

Off their clothes, Joe, that's the wrong idea.

Ed Helms (23:34)

He, he runs and hides and tries to, to disguise himself as a Spanish sailor because a lot of the crew was Spanish. And so he puts on their. The sort of like. That's interesting, I guess, the, the less fancy crew clothing. And he sort of hope can fumble his way through because he knows a little bit of Spanish from his trips to South America. But the pirates were like, that's a pretty strong French accent in your, in your bad Spanish.

Jake Johnson (24:03)

Hey, Joe, that's a bad decision. What you're doing is weird, my man.

Ed Helms (24:09)

God, I wish you were on this boat. Like we might have. We might have the metric system had it not been. If Jake Johnson had been on this.

Jake Johnson (24:18)

Hey, Joe, we know you. We came to get you. What are you doing? And he goes, me, Joe. Oh, I'm one.

Ed Helms (24:28)

Come on.

Jake Johnson (24:29)

Stop it.

Ed Helms (24:29)

Come on. Are you good at. I remember Sid Caesar used to do those. Incredible. He could do like gibberish in a foreign Accent like. Like whether it was German or Italian or French. He could, like, convincingly sound like he was speaking the language, even though it was complete gibberish.

Jake Johnson (24:49)

Yes.

Ed Helms (24:49)

Are you capable of that? Is that one of your skills?

Jake Johnson (24:52)

No.

Ed Helms (24:53)

No.

Jake Johnson (24:54)

Terrible. Are you. Do you have. I mean, you're a musician.

Ed Helms (24:56)

I feel like it's something you could probably work on and get there.

Jake Johnson (24:59)

I couldn't do them all, but if I worked on it, I could do, like, two very specific ones where you're like, that's pretty good gibberish in that language. But I could not be somebody who does them all.

Ed Helms (25:11)

The pirates very quickly identified Dombey and they brought him to be a prisoner on the Caribbean island of Montserrat. The pirates looted the ship, and before they could fulfill their plan of offering up Dombey for ransom to the French government, he tragically died while in captivity on the island.

Jake Johnson (25:30)

How'd he die? Do we know?

Ed Helms (25:31)

I don't know what he was sick with, but he got sick somewhere on the passage and it just. It took him. And I'm sure like. Like 18th century pirates also weren't. Didn't provide the most hospitable accommodations. I'm not. I'm guessing it wasn't like Club Med, for sure where he was saying. So that. That all probably contributed. But this is where things get a little bit fuzzy. Some accounts suggest the pirates auctioned off the ship's most valuable cargo to parts unknown. Others claim they were spooked by paperwork linking those. The meter and kilo measurement standards. Those were linked to Jefferson. And so the pirates were like, oh, my God, what do we do? But either way, those pieces vanished. And for the moment, they were lost to history. And it is thought that because those things didn't make it to Thomas Jefferson, that that is why we didn't get the metric system.

Jake Johnson (26:32)

That's crazy.

Ed Helms (26:33)

Our best shot at going metric sank into the crystal blue Caribbean.

Jake Johnson (26:39)

That's cool. Yeah, That's a neat story.

Ed Helms (26:42)

What would be different now if we actually had the metric system other than our car speedometers? I don't know.

Jake Johnson (26:50)

I know that I got a Rivian right now. Bragg is Rivian. A brag?

Ed Helms (26:57)

Yeah. Mad respect, bro.

Jake Johnson (27:00)

By the way, you couldn't be more of a dad. When a Rivian SUV is a brag, I'm driving a Porsche. I'm like, dude, I got a car that can fit six kids, luggage, and a dog. And you go, jesus, you're winning. It doesn't go fast.

Ed Helms (27:22)

And I will.

Jake Johnson (27:23)

I will say it's not that much Fun to drive, but the storage in that baby.

Ed Helms (27:31)

Now I'm getting chubby. That is exciting.

Jake Johnson (27:34)

God damn. My king.

Ed Helms (27:35)

Storage.

Jake Johnson (27:36)

What do you think would be different?

Ed Helms (27:38)

Well, I actually think that it would have made a huge difference and it's impossible to sort of know the counterfactual like, what it would be. But the metric system is so simple and it is so intuitive that I think it actually opens up a lot of construction and engineering to people that may not have benefited from education. And so I don't know. I like to think that had we adopted the metric system earlier on, we may have advanced more quickly. More people would have had more access to science and to engineering, and we would be in a more interesting place. As it stands, we're still using the imperial system, obviously, and it's so clunky. Like, it's so hard. You have to use special calculators to figure out these fractions of inches and feet. And there's no. It's just so needlessly complicated. But let's actually get into the legacy of this a little bit because there's more to it. Jefferson soon became president, as we know, in 1801. Yet even then he remained unable to make any progress metricating America. Finally, in 1866, the Metric act came to be legally recognizing the metric system in the US Though not going so far as to make it mandatory in any way. And there's an interesting reason for that. Any guesses where right after the Civil War, the Industrial revolution is like cranking, basically. We're already knee deep in the imperial system with like huge factories, railways. It would be a nightmare to shift massive engineering projects. And there's no Internet. Like, you can't just email people new plans or whatever.

Jake Johnson (29:34)

You also, once you get the ball rolling on something, you can't do a big shift. It just doesn't quite work with that many people to say like, hey, everybody, this is better. So everybody start doing this. You're like, no way.

Ed Helms (29:50)

Well, yeah, you just have systems in place that are very, very hard to undo.

Jake Johnson (29:55)

It's over. It's too late. Even if the systems are wrong, you're like, we're pot committed.

Ed Helms (29:59)

Yeah. I still think you can make the commitment and then account for the difficulty of the transition in some ways and just know that you're in for a tough slog, but that the other side is like so much better.

Jake Johnson (30:17)

If you can get there, it. But it takes a generation to sacrifice for the next generation.

Ed Helms (30:21)

Pretty much you're right, because you're like.

Jake Johnson (30:23)

Then there's Gonna be like some, like, older guy who's like, I can't wrap my head around the new stuff. And it's like. I know. Yeah, because you've been doing it wrong for 50 years. But I promise you, it's gonna be better in 100 years. And that person needs to go. I see the benefit in this. Exactly.

Ed Helms (30:37)

It takes. It's a big ask.

Jake Johnson (30:39)

It's a big ask.

Ed Helms (30:40)

Have you ever stayed in a hotel in Canada and you're like, the freaking. The thermostat. You're like, what? To get out my phone and do a train?

Jake Johnson (30:50)

Like, I hate it.

Ed Helms (30:51)

I cannot get Celsius into my head.

Jake Johnson (30:53)

Confused by the simple. Like that. Yeah, well, that's what I was talking about on my ribbon, because it's in Celsius. So I'll go like, the temperature in my car is. I'll be like, 13.

Ed Helms (31:04)

You can change that, Jake. It's a Rivian.

Jake Johnson (31:07)

I don't know how to add. I'm the real Joseph Tambay.

Ed Helms (31:13)

Somebody leave in the comments instructions for Jake to change his Rivian from Celsius to Fahrenheit.

Jake Johnson (31:20)

But by the way, I have no idea what the temperature of my car is ever.

Ed Helms (31:23)

By the way, Rivian's an American company. It's an American company.

Jake Johnson (31:26)

I. Believe me, I know. I don't get it, and I hate it. I'll tell you the other thing that. The one thing I'm glad that doesn't exist is that we don't do our weight in stone. That's something I've never been able to wrap my head around.

Ed Helms (31:38)

Yeah, that's a weird one.

Jake Johnson (31:39)

When people speak honestly, especially in, like, the MMA community or fighters, we're all be watching something. They'll be like, at that point, he was eight. Eight stone. And I'm like, you're measuring yourself in stones.

Ed Helms (31:51)

There were.

Jake Johnson (31:52)

That can't be real.

Ed Helms (31:54)

There were a lot of weird measurements. Remember, horses are measured in hands. Like, the height of a horse is like. There's like, 30 hands or something. Like, whose hand?

Jake Johnson (32:04)

What?

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Jake Johnson (32:05)

Hands are dead. Doesn't make any sense. Or when people still to this day, they'll go like, it's about eight feet. And they'll count their footsteps.

Ed Helms (32:13)

Right, right.

Jake Johnson (32:14)

And they'll go, one, two. I'm like, not your eight.

Ed Helms (32:17)

You're not King Henry. You're not that.

Jake Johnson (32:19)

You have different feet.

Ed Helms (32:21)

What?

Jake Johnson (32:21)

You're not the center of it. I also hate the idea of stone of, like. And then you think at one point, there was one stone where they're like, this is the official stone that you weigh in. I'm like, I hate this idea of people being like, I lost a stone. And I've heard people say that. And I have to go like, that.

Ed Helms (32:38)

Means nothing to me.

Jake Johnson (32:41)

I don't get it. I can't wrap my head around I don't know how many pounds of stone is.

Ed Helms (32:45)

No.

Jake Johnson (32:46)

It also makes me feel like you live in a different century than me.

Ed Helms (32:50)

And I think there are a lot of hands measuring horses. There are a lot of unusual metaphors that we use. Or not metaphors, but. But sort of like. Yeah, that still exists. A famous one, of course, is the size of a tumor. Right. We're always. There's no sort of constant reference point for that. It's just sort of like a grapefruit or a softball or a garlic ball.

Jake Johnson (33:13)

That's exactly. Yeah. It's about the size of a golf ball or a grapefruit. Nothing in between.

Ed Helms (33:19)

Yeah, yeah.

Jake Johnson (33:21)

And by the way, at our most important diagnosis, you have a tumor in your brain.

Ad Read Voice 1 (33:25)

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Jake Johnson (33:25)

What's the size of it? It's about a grapefruit. Which. A baby grapefruit.

Ed Helms (33:29)

Like a small one or a big one? It just. Grapefruit. Like kind of.

Jake Johnson (33:34)

It's kind of. It's bigger than.

Ed Helms (33:36)

Yeah. It's bigger than a golf ball. We. And the next.

Jake Johnson (33:38)

Smaller than a grapefruit.

Ed Helms (33:39)

Yeah. Can we say tennis ball?

Jake Johnson (33:41)

No. Can we say. Or orange.

Ed Helms (33:43)

We don't recognize tennis ball in this hospital, by the way.

Jake Johnson (33:48)

That's insane. Can you imagine a real doctor will literally go on their little note sheets. The tumor is about the size of a golf ball. Are you nuts?

Ed Helms (34:00)

This is science.

Jake Johnson (34:02)

I don't like it.

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Ed Helms (37:22)

In 1975, the metric conversion act designated the METRC system as the preferred system for U.S. trade and commerce and directed federal agencies to convert to metrc. Slowly but surely, we started making progress to catch up with the world. But clearly adoption by the broader population remains totally voluntary and therefore extremely, extremely slow. Yes.

Jake Johnson (37:50)

Well, if it's not mandatory, the change isn't going to occur.

Ed Helms (37:53)

No, absolutely not. Do you want it to, like, do you. Are you prometric? Even knowing it would be a pain in the ass for a bit. Like, would you.

Jake Johnson (38:02)

I'm going to be perfectly honest. Before this call, I don't think I've ever thought about it.

Ed Helms (38:07)

That's okay. I'm asking you.

Jake Johnson (38:08)

So I can't. I can't say I'm. I would say with the way my brain works and how slow it is with change.

Ed Helms (38:16)

Oh, no, that's.

Jake Johnson (38:18)

Keep it as it is.

Ed Helms (38:19)

I think that's a shitty take.

Jake Johnson (38:21)

I know it's not a great take.

Ed Helms (38:23)

I love you, but I think like, you know, for the, for the good of humanity, like, metric is just better.

Jake Johnson (38:28)

So if you were king, you would say we're switching right now?

Ed Helms (38:34)

I would say I would put our best minds on, like, figuring out a transition.

Jake Johnson (38:40)

How do you find the best minds at. At this point? Well, the best mind back then used to take his clothes off for sculptures. The best mind when pirates came. His first thought was, I'm going to dress up like a Spaniard.

Ed Helms (38:56)

You're right that the. That my idea is predicated on the assumption that we can locate the best mines. These days that seems extremely hard.

Jake Johnson (39:04)

It's impossible.

Ed Helms (39:06)

I feel like in science it shouldn't be that tricky, but whatever. So whatever happened to Dombey's mysterious kilo and meter rod?

Jake Johnson (39:15)

What a find.

Ed Helms (39:17)

Yeah, we know where it is. It landed in the lap of an American surveyor, Andrew Ellicott, who became famous for his work on the street plan for Washington D.C. around 1952. The Ellicott family eventually realized that they had something special, the descendants of Andrew Ellicott. And they turned the pieces of plundered treasure over to the agency that would become the National Institute of Standards and Technology.

Jake Johnson (39:46)

That's cool.

Ed Helms (39:47)

Which is a really kind of a cool sounding institute. I don't know. It's like people who really care about precise things.

Jake Johnson (39:55)

Ed, do you really care about precision?

Ed Helms (39:57)

I think I do, almost involuntarily.

Jake Johnson (40:01)

You like it?

Ed Helms (40:03)

I'm not like a tidy, fastidious person, but I do. I am like. I'M crafty with hobby stuff, and I am very meticulous about sort of, like, things fitting and measuring properly. I'm also weirdly, and this is to my own detriment, I am weirdly obsessed with clarity. When people are speaking or trying to make a point with me, I get very frustrated if they're unclear or if they're, like, interesting or if they just drop. Forget to sort of give me a piece of context. I'm like, how am I supposed to know? What do you mean?

Jake Johnson (40:38)

What is that?

Ed Helms (40:39)

And it's not rational or fair, but.

Jake Johnson (40:43)

It'S just how you are.

Ed Helms (40:44)

But I think there is something about that, like, precision in communication is, like, incredibly important to me. And I'm not even that good necessarily. I'm not like.

Jake Johnson (40:55)

But I understand what you're saying.

Ed Helms (40:57)

It drives me nuts when somebody's unclear.

Jake Johnson (41:00)

Yeah, totally. That's neat. That's neat. Well, it's different.

Ed Helms (41:06)

Yeah, it is a weird thing.

Jake Johnson (41:07)

I mean, it's. At least it's different from my life view. So that's why I asked where you said, like, that museum sounded interesting. And I think for me, precision is the exact details of things being right. Never interested me. I love the in between. I love the gray area. I love the when things fall off the rails. If things are all going well and it all falls off, that's when I'm like, oh, excited.

Ed Helms (41:33)

Yeah, I hear that.

Jake Johnson (41:35)

I've just as. Even as a kid, I've always liked. I'm like, oh, it just. That's when things are fun for me.

Ed Helms (41:39)

I feel that about you, Jake. And I will say it's an incredibly endearing aspect of you. I really. I admire that.

Jake Johnson (41:46)

I feel the same with you about yours, Ed. I admire that about you, truly.

Ed Helms (41:50)

It might speak a little bit to how we approach comedy and storytelling differently. And I find acting and improvising with you to be, like, so fun. Like, you're one of the most present people to improvise with. I always. I sort of can't believe the things you're clocking. Cause it's so in the moment and in the space, and it makes me. You'll clock the most random, specific things, and it makes me laugh so hard, and I love. It's truly a joy.

Jake Johnson (42:22)

Well, I feel the same about you, but I feel what's really neat about this moment is what I like about you is I think we're playing very different games. And I like being in scenes with you because I'm like. Like, for example, my podcast is very loose. We take Calls. We have no idea what's happening. Everything is meant to be a mistake.

Ed Helms (42:40)

I came on your podcast with no idea what was happening.

Jake Johnson (42:44)

No idea. And same for me on this one. And what I was like, oh, this is so Ed to me. Yeah, it's really interesting information where you've done a lot of work, you've prepared it, you have not bullshitted through a story, you have prepared and told all these different beats. And you have moments where you're like, there could be an interjection here where I was like, oh, this is an Ed formula. And mine, we're here to help is such a Jake formula where it's, hey, you're here, we're recording. Yeah, have a caller come on. What are they saying?

Ed Helms (43:14)

I don't know.

Jake Johnson (43:15)

Hopefully something goes wrong and then we've got 25 minutes.

Ed Helms (43:19)

I also love that. And, and this is. I'm delighted to be sort of plugging your podcast in this moment too, because it is so funny. And the premise, I think you told me, like, a few minutes into the podcast, you're like, oh, yeah. And by the way, we have to agree with the caller. Like, we have to take the caller's side in this whole thing.

Jake Johnson (43:40)

They try to, no matter what, be on their team, so they're our friends.

Ed Helms (43:43)

And what I love about that, and what is so Jake to me about that is how ludicrously arbitrary that is. It's like, this is just a. This will make things interesting. This will message things up. Like, this will just. This will just keep everyone off balance. This will make everyone have to like, like, condition their answer in such a ridiculous way that you can't. You can't rely on your tricks and your tools and your whatever, your instincts. It's like, no, no, we're gonna take. We're just gonna make this arbitrary rule. And it just makes me. Like, that by itself makes me laugh.

Jake Johnson (44:19)

Well, because if you were, if you were allowed to disagree, then a lot of us would come on and go, no, let me tell you how it should be.

Ed Helms (44:27)

Sure.

Jake Johnson (44:27)

And I'm like, but if they're driving the train and all we're doing, if they're the star player on the team and it's our job to make sure they win, then you go, like, their logic's crazy, but I have to be with them. It's like being on the ship with Joseph. It's being Joseph Dalbay's, you know, right hand man and being like, okay, my man, I can't tell you. No, I wish you had pants on. But you want to dress up like a Spaniard, my man. Me too, me too. And then you're going, hello, this is Jose, I am Juan. And they go, this is bullshit. And you go, hey Joe, that was not the best plan, right? That to me is so joyful.

Ed Helms (45:15)

Oh, Jake Johnson, another damn delightful hang out with you. Thanks so much for coming on.

Jake Johnson (45:23)

I feel the same about you, Ed.

Ed Helms (45:24)

I love you buddy. Really fun. Right on. Snafu is a production of iHeart podcasts and snafu Media, a partnership between Film Nation Entertainment and Pacific Electric Picture Company. Post production and creative support from Good Egg Audio. Our executive producers are me, Ed Helms.

Venmo Ad Voice (45:42)

Mike Falbo, Glenn Basner, Andy Kim and Dylan Fagan.

Ed Helms (45:47)

This episode was produced by Alyssa Martino and Tori Smith. Our managing producer is Carl Nellis. Our video editor is Jared Smith.

Venmo Ad Voice (45:55)

Technical direction and engineering from Nick Dooley.

Ed Helms (45:58)

Additional story editing from Carl Nellis. Our creative executive is Brett Harris. Logo and branding by Matt Gossen and.

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The Collected Works Legal review from Dan.

Ed Helms (46:08)

Welch, Megan Halson and Caroline Johnson. Special thanks thanks to Isaac Dunham, Adam Horne, Lane Klein, and everyone at iHeart podcasts, but especially Will Pearson, Carrie Lieberman, and Nikki Ator. While I have you, don't forget to.

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Ed Helms (46:26)

The Definitive Guide to History's Greatest Screw Ups. It's available now from any book retailer. Just go to snafu-book.com thanks for listening and see you next week.

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Jake Johnson (47:32)

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