Air Transat Flight 236: The Azores Glider That Ran Dry (with Adam Scott)

Summary

SNAFU with Ed Helms

Episode: S4E22 – Adam Scott and Air Transat Flight 236
Date: March 4, 2026
Guests: Adam Scott (actor from Severance, Parks and Recreation, Party Down)
Main Theme:
A gripping, comedic, and insightful deep dive into one of aviation history’s wildest near-disasters—Air Transat Flight 236—through the lens of its causes, heroics, and the very human qualities underlying technological screw-ups. Along the way, Ed Helms and Adam Scott riff on aviation anxiety, nostalgia, engineering, and more, infusing history with humor and reflection.

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Episode Overview

Ed Helms welcomes Adam Scott to unpack the "snafu" that was Air Transat Flight 236—an eventful transatlantic flight that suffered total engine failure over the Atlantic in 2001, forcing pilots to attempt an unprecedented glide to safety. The episode mixes technical breakdowns, personal stories (often hilarious), and broader reflections on human error, heroism, and engineering.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Stage: Adam Scott Joins SNAFU

• Adam’s R.E.M. Superfan Status:
  Ed ribs Adam about his legendary devotion to R.E.M. and his podcast, reminding listeners of Adam’s comedic credentials and penchant for niche obsessions (04:00).
• Acting Trajectory & Evolution:
  Adam shares the intentional career pivot from sitcoms to more serious roles, citing "Severance" and "Big Little Lies"—and reflects on how every actor starts out thinking they're serious before realizing "maybe I was just an idiot" (06:03).

2. Introducing the Incident: Air Transat Flight 236

• Air Transat—The “Awkward Airline”
  Ed jokes about the weirdness of the airline’s name (“They need to rebrand”—08:17) and how Canadians fly under Americans' radar.

• Nightmare at 30,000 ft—Fiction and Fact: Adam starred in a Twilight Zone reboot episode bizarrely prescient of this story, where a passenger listens to a podcast about a doomed flight while in the air (07:15).

3. Personal Flying Tales & Anxiety

• Are You a Nervous Flyer?
  Adam admits a longstanding fear of flying—escalated by existential thoughts and tamed only by necessity and parenting.

  “I just started thinking we could just drop out of the sky at any second… but that's just destructive thinking.” (09:31)

• Turbulence Therapy:
  Discussing how learning from pilots on Instagram helped Adam rationalize turbulence and manage his kids’ nerves (09:44).

4. Timeline and Anatomy of the Snafu

Maintenance & Missed Steps (13:57 – 24:13)

• In August 2001, mechanics replaced the right engine’s hydraulic lines but, due to unavailable parts on the replacement (a borrowed Rolls Royce engine), left out a crucial service bulletin update.

• Ed: “They shipped it off with a note that basically said, ‘please install new parts when you get a chance.’” (20:52)

• Protocol Slip:
  Techs followed “correct protocol”—but a missing service bulletin meant they MacGyvered the fuel line connections, setting the stage for disaster.

In-Flight Emergency Develops (24:18 – 33:36)

• Aug. 24, 2001:
  13 crew and 293 passengers board for a routine Toronto-Lisbon flight.

• Fuel Imbalance Detected Mid-Ocean
  Ed details the agita of discovering “the fuel levels are not what they should be”—pilots reroute for the Azores, a volcanic island (28:31).

• The Critical Error:
  Pilots (misdiagnosing the issue as a sensor error) follow a fuel imbalance protocol instead of the emergency fuel leak procedure. They transfer fuel to the engine that’s actually leaking—cell-by-cell, dumping it into the Atlantic.

  “It's like a classic case of just making the problem worse when you're trying to solve it.” (33:16)

5. Absolute Crisis: Engine Loss and Glider Mode

• At 7% fuel left, first the right, then the left engine flames out. They lose all power, drop out of the sky, and become a 200-ton “glider” still 65 nautical miles from the Azores (33:59).
• Passenger Perspective:
  Ed: “It just went dead quiet... that's so creepy.” (35:03)
• Dad Reflexes Under Pressure:
  Both hosts riff on dad duties, the adrenaline of outward calm, and speculating on their own would-be heroism (38:29).
• Pilot Heroism:
  Captain Pichet uses the A330’s 15:1 glide ratio to attempt a “deadstick” approach, expertly calculating distance and altitude (40:57).

6. Engineering Marvels: The RAM Air Turbine ("RAT") (46:15)

• Ed explains the RAT—a backup power-generating wind turbine that kept critical flight systems barely alive.
• Adam imagines a literal rat running on a wheel, then riffs on deploying the 80’s metal band Ratt in emergencies for morale (47:31).

7. Hair-Raising Landing (49:26 – 52:15)

• Steep, High-Speed Descent:
  Due to excess altitude, Pichet performs a 360-degree turn to bleed speed/altitude, then manually deploys the landing gear by yanking levers (“free fall method”).

• Final Moments:
  Plane slams down, bounces, bursts tires—but they are saved.

  Ed: “Some questionable choices in the mix… but no question this man has mad skills and a serious, like, pilot’s disposition.” (51:53)

  All 306 on board survive. Only 16 (!) minor injuries, mostly from evacuation.

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Memorable Quotes & Notable Moments

• On Aviation Anxiety:
  “I think it's good to just take a moment and just space out… I love boredom, and I require it of my children.”
  —Ed Helms (26:31 & 27:02)

• On Upgrading Everything:
  “I expect my refrigerator to sit me down and be like, ‘Hey, buddy, why are you holding me back?’”
  —Ed Helms (21:42)

• On the Real Cause of the Catastrophe:
  “Vibrations from the engine power caused an immense amount of chafing to occur. I know what that's like, let me tell you.”
  —Ed Helms (55:20)

  “Eventually this created a three-inch crack. You have a three-inch, very cute, tiny little butt with a three inch crack.”
  —Ed Helms joking with Adam Scott (55:42)

• On The Miracle Glide:
  “Despite misreading a major fuel leak as a minor sensor issue, Captain Pichet was solid on one crucial thing: he knew the plane’s gliding ratio.”
  —Ed Helms (40:29)

• On Heroics & Expertise:
  “Most airline incidents are due to pilot error. But also, most airline close calls…are because of pilot skill.”
  —Adam Scott (58:46)

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Important Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment | |------------|-----------------------------------------------------| | 03:36 | Adam Scott Introduction & R.E.M. Fandom | | 09:01 | Discussion: Flying anxiety and turbulence | | 13:57 | The Backstory: Pre-Flight maintenance | | 24:18 | The Night of Flight 236: Takeoff & Atmosphere | | 28:31 | Discovery: In-flight fuel imbalance | | 33:16 | The Catastrophic Error: Fuel transfer to leaking side| | 33:59 | Both engines fail—complete power loss | | 40:57 | 75-mile Atlantic glide & pilot calculations | | 46:15 | The “RAT”—Ram Air Turbine explained, running joke | | 49:26 | Death-defying landing | | 52:15 | Outcome: Casualties, evacuation | | 55:20 | Underlying Cause: A simple three-inch crack | | 58:46 | Reflections on pilot heroism |

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Reflections & Takeaways

• Human Error + Engineering Marvels:
  Even massive systems, with protocols and redundancy, rely on simple human action (and inaction)—and the brilliance of design, from backup turbines to pilot checklists, can be the difference between tragedy and survival.

• Pilot Disposition:
  The episode reveres pilots’ equanimity—calling back to Chuck Yeager’s legendary coolness as the ultimate aspiration for crisis response.

• Aviation as Humanity’s Triumph:
  Ed: “To me, that's like one of the great human achievements…commercial aviation.”

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Final Thoughts

Hilarious, relatable, and ultimately awe-inspiring: this episode of SNAFU reminds listeners that even history’s greatest technical flubs can reveal the best of human ingenuity and the importance of resilience—and that sometimes, surviving a “snafu” comes down to the right person keeping their cool with a busted machine at 33,000 feet… and maybe a little help from a metaphorical rat.

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Transcript

[Ed Helms]

So vibrations from the engine power caused an immense amount of chafing to occur. I know what that's like, let me tell you.

[Adam Scott]

Oh, man, you hit middle age.

[Ed Helms]

The chafing just goes through the roof. Eventually this created a three inch crack. I know you know what that's like

[Adam Scott]

100% the three inch crack. You don't have to tell me you

[Ed Helms]

have a three inch crack.

[Adam Scott]

I do. You have a three inch, very cute,

[Ed Helms]

tiny little butt with a three inch crack.

[Adam Scott]

Three inches. It's all you need.

[Ed Helms]

It's all you need.

[Podcast Announcer]

This is an I heart podcast. Guaranteed human. When segregation was a law, one mysterious black club owner Charlie Fitzgerald had his own rules.

[Adam Scott]

Segregation in the day, integration at night.

[Ed Helms]

It was like stepping in another world.

[Podcast Announcer]

Was he a businessman, a criminal, a hero?

[Adam Scott]

Charlie was an example of power. They had to crush him.

[Podcast Announcer]

Charlie's Place from Atlas Obscura and visit Myrtle Beach. Listen to Charlie's place on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. When segregation was a law, one mysterious black club owner Charlie Fitzgerald had his own rules.

[Adam Scott]

Segregation in the day, integration at night.

[Ed Helms]

It was like stepping on another world.

[Podcast Announcer]

Was he a businessman, a criminal, a hero?

[Adam Scott]

Charlie was an example of power. They had to crush him.

[Podcast Announcer]

Charlie's Place from Atlas Obscura and visit Myrtle Beach. Listen to Charlie's place on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ed Helms]

This is the biggest night in podcasting.

[Adam Scott]

The countdown is on to our 2026 iHeart Podcast Awards live from south by Southwest, March 16th. We'll honor the very best in podcasting from the past year and celebrate the most innovative, talented creators in the industry. It's truly a who's who of the podcasting world. Creativity, knowledge and passion will all be on full display.

[Ed Helms]

And the winner of the iHeart Podcast Award is.

[Adam Scott]

See all the [e-mail] podcast awards.

[Podcast Announcer]

Audible is a proud sponsor of the Audible Audio Pioneer Award. Explore the best selection of audiobooks, podcasts and originals all in one easy app. Audible. There's more to imagine when you listen. Sign up for a free [e-mail]

[Ed Helms]

hey, I'm Ed Helms and this is SNAFU, a show about history's greatest screw ups. Or rather, a show in which I journey with my wonderful guests through a distinct tale of human humor, hubris and or buffoonery from the past, examining what these stories say about us as human beings. Today, we'll be flying high above the Atlantic Ocean with the harrowing tale of air Transat Flight 236. And we'll be joined by an award winning actor. You know him as the lovable protagonist of such hit shows as Parks and Recreation, Party down, and of course, Severance. And the not quite so lovable antagonist, though insanely hilarious antagonist of stepbrothers. He was recently announced as one of Times 100 Most Influential People of 2025. And he may just be the world's biggest R.E.M fan. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Mr. Adam Scott. Hello, Adam. So glad you're here.

[Adam Scott]

Thank you for having me. And thank you for that introduction. Right when you said the REM thing, I realized behind me is a photo of REM up on my wall, which is.

[Ed Helms]

You're really playing the part.

[Adam Scott]

Good Lord, I'm so excited to be here.

[Ed Helms]

Well, right on. I'm glad to have you. Remind me the podcast that you do about R.E.M.

[Adam Scott]

scott Aukerman and I had a podcast called are you talking Remi? That was morphed from the original podcast, which was you talking U2 to me. And so we kind of went from band to band for. For a while. But yeah, REM was a big deal for me as I was growing up and still is.

[Ed Helms]

Where did you grow up?

[Adam Scott]

I grew up in Santa Cruz, California. Up in the Bay Area?

[Ed Helms]

Yeah, up in the redwoods.

[Adam Scott]

Up in the redwoods.

[Ed Helms]

Okay. This is not to try to like out cool you a little bit, because honestly, Santa Cruz is like the coolest place to grow up. But I grew up in Atlanta, Georgia, right down the road from Athens, Georgia. When I was a little kid, the older kids that were driving me to school in carpools had the REM bootleg tapes from fraternity parties at the University of Georgia. So I was listening to REM before it was even cool, man.

[Adam Scott]

I'm OG that's pretty great. If you could get your hands on those bootlegs now, that would be.

[Ed Helms]

You might pay me $12 for them.

[Adam Scott]

That's exactly right. I would up it to $14 maybe.

[Ed Helms]

You've been doing so much cool work. We're gonna get into this snafu here in a second. But I've known you a very, very long time. I don't even remember when or how we first crossed paths, but I remember just thinking of you always as one of my compatriots in the comedy space. But you've been just absolutely crushing dramatic roles now for years.

[Adam Scott]

Thanks.

[Ed Helms]

Obviously, severance. But then, of course, big little lies. Before that, you were just totally stealing scenes in that. And I'm curious if that was a sort of conscious migration towards drama, or if it's just sort of a product of maturity and growing up, where did that come from? And do you miss comedy or do you have a preference either way? Yeah.

[Adam Scott]

Well, thanks for saying all that. First of all, it was really nice. I think that, yeah, it was a conscious. Because when Parks and rec ended in 2014, I believe I did want to try and Because I always thought, you know, when I was starting out and stuff, I thought of myself as a serious actor. I think we all maybe at one point or when we were starting, kind of thought of ourselves that way. I certainly did.

[Ed Helms]

I always thought I was an idiot, and, like, maybe I can. Maybe I can make money at this.

[Adam Scott]

That's an attribute because it took me years to realize that I was an idiot, and I was maybe better at that. But as Parks and Rec was going on, I was lucky to be a part of this show and the kind of comedy community since Stepbrothers and Party down in Parks. I really love the whole kind of comedy world, but I also wanted to kind of differentiate a little bit and was finding it challenging to do so. And so when Parks ended, yeah, I made a conscious choice to, you know, really chase big little eyes and go audition and really try to be a part of that.

[Ed Helms]

Very cool. It was fantastic. Another little dramatic tidbit from your past was you starred in Jordan Peele's Twilight Zone reboot episode nightmare at 30,000ft, which is extremely relevant to today. In that one, you're on a plane listening to a podcast from the future predicting the flight's disappearance. Such an awesome premise. I won't spoil anything, but that was fabulous. Today we are talking about a very real nightmare at 30,000ft Air transat. That is the actual name of. Do you know this airline?

[Adam Scott]

I can't wait to hear what this is.

[Ed Helms]

Okay, so Air Transat is actually a major passenger carrier. It's a Canadian airline, and it still exists, but I think as Americans, it's not on our radar. And it's also, to me, a very awkward name for an airline. It's clearly a. It's an abbreve for transatlantic.

[Adam Scott]

Sure. Transat.

[Ed Helms]

Transat. I don't know. Air Transat. It doesn't work for me.

[Adam Scott]

They need to rebrand.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah.

[Adam Scott]

So this is still in existence?

[Ed Helms]

It is.

[Adam Scott]

Oh, wow. Okay.

[Ed Helms]

Do you remember Pan Am Airlines? Yeah, that's a cool abbreviation.

[Adam Scott]

So cool.

[Ed Helms]

Panam, I like. Or Trans Am, of course. That's a classic.

[Adam Scott]

Oh, Trans Am is the best abbreviation of all time.

[Ed Helms]

There it is. But anyway, air Transat Flight 236, 306 people were on board when it lost all engine power over the Atlantic. Yeah.

[Adam Scott]

That's a big plane.

[Ed Helms]

It's a big plane. Yeah. Before we dive in, Adam Scott, are you a chill flyer or a nervous flyer? How would you characterize your flying disposition?

[Adam Scott]

I kind of go through stages for a while. I was a very jumpy flier and had a big, big issue every time I got on a plane. I feel like. Have you ever gone through that phase of being.

[Ed Helms]

I never have. I mean, I've had.

[Adam Scott]

You've always been a pretty chill flyer.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah. And I think I grew up flying a bunch. I have had little bouts of claustrophobia at. But, like, that's to me, a separate thing. The flying hat doesn't bother me.

[Adam Scott]

I think that this was more like in my 20s. I just started thinking we could just drop out of the sky at any second and I wouldn't know it's coming. Like, it could just happen. I'm going to be on this thing for six hours, and at any moment, it could all end. But that's just destructive thinking. And eventually I just got used to it and stopped. And also, I think having kids and, you know, you have. If. If it gets bumpy, you have to make sure they're not. You got to be the grown up 100. And there is a really great Instagram account with airline pilots talking about turbulence and what it actually is, what it means. I like that what's happening and that there's absolutely no danger in turbulence. Turbulence is what's supposed to happen.

[Ed Helms]

All right.

[Adam Scott]

And so I just sort of repeat that. We were on a flight recently to Montana, and when you're going over mountains, it's always a little bumpy. And it was maybe the bumpiest I'd ever flight I'd ever been on. And my kids were pretty freaked out, but I had to pretend like I was not freaked out at all. And.

[Ed Helms]

And I was, now that you mentioned it. The. The one time that I. I or not, I've been nervous on planes. But, like, probably the most nervous I got on a plane was also in the Rocky Mountains coming into Telluride Airport, which is like, on a mesa, and there's like a cliff face right before the Runway. And I remember it was so bumpy coming into the Runway. And the thing that really threw me is, like, I'm actually fine with, like, up and down turbulence, but at some point, the plane started kind of going like this.

[Adam Scott]

Oh, yeah.

[Ed Helms]

Like the Nose of the plane was turning. I was like, wait a minute. Now I'm not even pointed at the Runway. What is going on?

[Adam Scott]

It starts feeling like a ride at Magic Mountain or something. When it starts making those other kind of modulations.

[Ed Helms]

Exactly. Yeah. Like we shouldn't be on. We shouldn't be pivoting.

[Adam Scott]

Exactly.

[Ed Helms]

Up and down, I get. But like, no, this is weird.

[Adam Scott]

Especially when you're about to land and you start going, you know, the wind starts blowing you in a different direction. It's unnerving.

[Ed Helms]

That's exactly what it was. Just. Anyway, those side gusts, they get you. Okay. So this, this will either be reassuring or triggering for you. And I hope it's. I hope it's the. The former. But let's dive right in. So we're going all the way back to August 2001. Do you. Where were you in August of 2001?

[Adam Scott]

Do you remember August 2001? I was up in Berkeley, California and doing a production of Romeo and Juliet.

[Ed Helms]

Cool.

[Adam Scott]

Cal Shakes is what they call. It's an outdoor theater up in Orinda, which is right outside of Berkeley. It's a really beautiful place. Yeah, that's what I was doing.

[Ed Helms]

That's very, very cool.

[Adam Scott]

And playing Romeo, by the way.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah. Oh, nailing it. Awesome. I love it. I was just. I was in New York City drifting from voiceover audition to voiceover audition. I think that was. And they. The occasional commercial audition. That was. And were you doing stand up comedy?

[Adam Scott]

Okay. Stand up.

[Ed Helms]

Stand up. Yeah.

[Adam Scott]

Was UCB around yet or was that a little early?

[Ed Helms]

Right. Yes, right around then. It was sort of emerging. It had. It had landed, I think. Yeah, around 99 is when it really. Still a little kind of underground. And then by 2001, it was starting to be a thing and I. Yeah, I was taking classes there.

[Adam Scott]

Great.

[Ed Helms]

I was definitely doing UCB at that time. Now that I think.

[Podcast Announcer]

Cool.

[Adam Scott]

That must have been so fun that whole time.

[Ed Helms]

It was very special. Yeah.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah. That just sounds so fun. Being in New York at the dawn of UCB and doing standup, that sounds so much more romantic and cool than doing Romeo and Juliet in Northern California to me.

[Ed Helms]

Wait a minute, wait a minute. Two things. One thing you said is true. It was wonderful to be in New York during that time and I cherish those days. But also, there is nothing more romantic and badass than playing Romeo in a product. I mean, that is, you're professionally acting.

[Adam Scott]

None of them.

[Ed Helms]

Like, at that time, I was like lucky to get 10 bucks for some dumb corporate gig.

[Adam Scott]

They both Sound cool and fun.

[Ed Helms]

All right. We begin our journey north of the border on Aug. 15, 2001, at the Toronto Pearson Airport in Canada Air Air Transat A. Canadian Airlines ran a routine inspection on one of their Airbus A330 models, and mechanics took note of a teensy, tiny little maintenance problem. The hydraulic lines in the right engine required a replacement. Now, this particular A330 Airbus wasn't all that old. It had just been built in 1999, but it had already accumulated over 10,000 flying hours, which, as Malcolm Gladwell told us, makes that plane an expert. Have you put 10,000 hours into anything besides acting? Is there some skill that you have,

[Adam Scott]

some secret hobby that you're other than watching television? I don't think so.

[Ed Helms]

How about listening to REM?

[Adam Scott]

Sure, probably.

[Ed Helms]

You're an REM expert.

[Adam Scott]

Sure, I'm an expert. But have you done 10,000 hours of banjo, do you think?

[Ed Helms]

Probably. But so scattered over 30, 40 years that it's, that it doesn't really count. I feel like that 10,000 hours has to occur in a relatively contained amount of time for expertise to emerge.

[Adam Scott]

But when Malcolm Gladwell came out with the 10,000 hours thing, it really felt like that just felt like it made sense. Right. Remember when that was introduced, it was like, oh, yeah, of course.

[Ed Helms]

I think subsequent research has called it out as being kind of ludicrously arbitrary, but it does have a nice, nice ring to it.

[Adam Scott]

It does, it certainly does.

[Ed Helms]

And it cast a B.

[Adam Scott]

Least partially true when applied to the Beatles. It makes perfect sense.

[Ed Helms]

Exactly. So our Airbus A330, as expertly attuned as she was to cloud hopping, she needed a little tune up. And a few days later, on August 17, Air Transat decided to replace the engine altogether. Only the spare engine that would normally be used wasn't readily available. So what do you do when your spare engine isn't ready? You upgrade to the Rolls Royce of loaner engines, which was literally a Rolls Royce engine.

[Adam Scott]

Sorry, a loaner engine just doesn't have a reassuring ring to it.

[Ed Helms]

That's my terminology. It's just the engine that they needed to. It was their engine that they would then replace with.

[Adam Scott]

And it was Rolls Royce. So we can. Yeah, so we can trust that.

[Ed Helms]

Which, by the way, I love. A lot of people, I think, don't realize that Rolls Royce is a huge player in aviation and they make jet engines in addition to like these ludicrously expensive cars that are all driven by butlers. Yeah, I just, I think that's, that's like that Makes Rolls Royce very cool to me in a weird way.

[Adam Scott]

And it's butlers that actually put those engines together. It's an all butler crew.

[Ed Helms]

I just crazy. I associate Rolls Royce with butlers for some reason.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah, like Gray Poupon.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah, Gray Poupon and all that stuff.

[Adam Scott]

Segregation in the day, integration at night.

[Podcast Announcer]

When segregation was the law, one mysterious black club owner had his own rules. We didn't worry about what went on outside. It was like stepping in another world. Inside Charlie's Place, black and white people danced together. But not everyone was happy about it. You saw the kkk.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah. They were dressed up in their uniform.

[Ed Helms]

The KKK set out to raid Charlie, take him away from here.

[Adam Scott]

Charlie was an example of power. They had to crush him.

[Podcast Announcer]

From Atlas Obscura, Rococo Punch and visit Myrtle beach comes Charlie's Place, a story that was nearly lost to time. Until now. Listen to Charlie's place on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. A ambitious, well intentioned, ferocious and wealthy mother looks like in the black community this Women's History Month, the podcast Keep It Positive Sweetie celebrates the power of women, choosing healing, purpose and faith. Even when life gets messy, love is not a destination.

[Ed Helms]

You have to work on it every day.

[Podcast Announcer]

Keep It Positive Sweetie creates space for honest conversations on self worth, love, growth and navigating life with grace and grit. Led by women who uplift, inspire and tell the truth out loud. I have several conversations with God and I know why it took 20 years to hear this and more. Listen to Keep It Positive sweetie on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It's the new me and it's the old them. Everybody's on their journey and your journey is different to theirs. This Women's History Month, the podcast if youf Knew Better with Amber Grimes spotlights women who turn missteps into momentum and lessons into power. I think coming out of where I came from, the Bronx, I think I grew up really poor. I didn't know that then. Cuz I very much use my creativity to romanticize life and I'm like, my mom did a really good job of like, you step back and you're like, whoa, we. I don't know how we made it. So a lot of my life was like built out of like survival to get to the next place. Like my drive, my like tunnel vision of like, I got to be better, I got to achieve this was off the strengths of like, I want to make a better life. For us, if youf Knew Better brings real talk from women who've lived it, unpacking career pivots, relationship lessons, and the mindset shifts that changed everything. Listen to if youf Knew Better with Amber grimes on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Ana Navarro, and on my new podcast, Bleep with Ana Navarro, I'm talking to the people closest to the biggest issues happening in your community and around the world. Because I know deep down inside right now we are all cursing and asking what the bleep is going on. I'm talking to people like Julie K. Brown, who broke the explosive story on Jeffrey Epstein in 2018. These victims have been let down time and time again for decades and decades and decades by local law enforcement, by federal law enforcement, by administration after administration.

[Adam Scott]

The Justice Department through, I think we

[Podcast Announcer]

counted four presidential administrations, failed these victims. Listen to Bleep with Ana Navarro as part of the My Cultura Podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ed Helms]

All of Air Transat's A330s were built in a newer, updated configuration. This replacement engine that they borrowed and older, not fully updated, still living in the past. So it was supposed to be brought up to modern specs, but the shop didn't have the right parts, so instead they shipped it off with a note that basically said, please install new parts when you get a chance.

[Adam Scott]

Oh, boy.

[Ed Helms]

Okay, so now Air Transit's mechanics get their hands on it, and they did what any responsible adult would do. They opened the Airbus illustrated Parts catalog.

[Adam Scott]

Oh, God.

[Ed Helms]

Not exactly SkyMall. In this case, upgrading was obviously necessary, but can we just step back for a second? Because this reminds me of something of, like, one of my little cultural annoyances, which is like, why do we have to constantly upgrade everything? Like, why do we need this new iPhone software, which all it does is, like, make things look a little different and ruin my muscle memory.

[Adam Scott]

I totally agree. Then you have to get used to just a new A tab being in a different position on the screen. And you're right. Your muscle memory just gets screwed up. And so it just makes it everything slow down.

[Ed Helms]

And it's like everything's begging you to upgrade it. Like, you're getting these messages on your phone, you're getting messages in your car. I expect my refrigerator to sit me down and be like, hey, buddy, why are you holding me back?

[Adam Scott]

That's right. That's right.

[Ed Helms]

You gotta upgrade me. You're a refrigerator.

[Adam Scott]

Exactly. Relax. You keep things cold. But also, not just the software, but the equipment itself. Like, we all feel like. Like if we don't upgrade our phone or whatever it is, then you're a step behind and it's ridiculous.

[Ed Helms]

They're preying on our existential angst. Adam Scott. It's not fair. Okay, that's exactly right. Now, our technicians in this case, followed the correct protocol, but what they did not follow was an important service bulletin, or sb, which is a set of directions from Rolls Royce about how to properly set up the hydraulic pumps and fuel lines, the computer terminals that they were using, I guess, on the maintenance floor. They couldn' access these service bulletins for whatever reason, and thus they had to rely on goodwilled advice from the maintenance engineering department. According to records, they were able to maneuver a fit on the fuel lines, which, believe me, we will come back to that. And inspections commenced. A successful ground test was run and completed. Several thumbs up were exchanged, I assume, and our A330 was sent off to join the fleet once again.

[Adam Scott]

So, can I just ask a question? You may not know this is this just. Is this like, day of, like, oh, shit, we need to replace this with the spare Rolls Royce engine or is this like just getting it ready to join the fleet and go up?

[Ed Helms]

It wasn't immediately urgent. There was a problem with this engine and they were doing a sort of routine replacement of the engine, but it wasn't like they were like, almost ready to go. And then they were like, oh, we got to swap out an engine. It was like, no, we're going to take this plane out of service for a minute and actually work on it and then we'll put it back.

[Adam Scott]

It involved planning and procedures and got it.

[Ed Helms]

The first flight with this new Rolls Royce engine, it went great. In fact, the Airbus A330 logged about 64 uneventful flight hours after this engine change. Then came August 24, 2001. Late that evening in Toronto, 13 crew members and 293 passengers boarded Air Transat Flight 236 bound for Lisbon, about to take a transatlantic trip that would go down in aviation history and become a ride none of them would soon forget.

[Adam Scott]

It's a long flight.

[Ed Helms]

It is. Toronto to Lisbon, right?

[Adam Scott]

So it's like eight hours, seven hours.

[Ed Helms]

A standard flight.

[Podcast Announcer]

This is.

[Ed Helms]

This is. You asked the question and queued me up. A standard flight from Toronto to lisbon takes about seven hours. And for 3 hours and 45 minutes of that flight, everything was peachy keen. Passengers comfortably snoozed, snacked or sipped on their complimentary tomato juices at about 39,000ft above the Atlantic Ocean.

[Adam Scott]

Oh, boy.

[Ed Helms]

Adam, what's your go to flight activity? Are you reading magazines? Are you napping? Are you watching something on your phone?

[Adam Scott]

All I do is drink tomato juice when I'm on flights. That's my, that's, that's it. I don't like doing anything else.

[Ed Helms]

It's weird. I've heard, I've seen people tweet about that. They're like, adam Scott's on my flight, and he won't put down. He's like, yelling at the flight attendants about getting more tomato juice, and they're

[Adam Scott]

like, get me my tomato juice.

[Ed Helms]

You're out of tomato juice. It's so weird. Like, relax, Adam Scott.

[Adam Scott]

On a plane, I like watching stuff. I like watching movies. I mean, if I have, have to do work and like, read, then I'll do that. But that usually just makes me pass right out if I start reading. So I, I just like watching movies that I, that I bring myself. How about you?

[Ed Helms]

I usually will listen to podcasts or. I kind of daydream a lot on airplanes.

[Adam Scott]

Oh, that's interesting.

[Ed Helms]

Like, I just kind of let my mind wander. I love, this is a strange thing. I love long flights. I just, to me, it's like this weird limbo. It's like you're not in the world. You're in this weird capsule, and you get to kind of check out from things.

[Adam Scott]

That's why I like it when flights don't have WI fi. And it's getting more and more rare when you. Because I, I agree. I like a long flight. There's something cozy about it.

[Ed Helms]

Yes.

[Adam Scott]

And there's something where you, you just get to lay down and, and I like that you daydream. I, I, I feel like there's less and less boredom, first of all, and there's less and less daydreaming now because we all have something to occupy our eyes and our mind at all times. And I think it's good to just take a moment and just space out.

[Ed Helms]

I love boredom, and I require it of my children. My kids will come to me and be like, I'm so bored. And I always tell them, go and sit down and get as bored as you can. Just get as bored as you possibly can. And I sort of force them to, like, try to be bored. And once they're trying to be bored, they instantly start thinking of, like, fun activities to do. It's a fun little Jedi trick, but it's so smart.

[Adam Scott]

That's where you come up with your tastes. That's where you kind of form what it is you like to do and what you like thinking about. And yeah, I think that's great.

[Ed Helms]

I'm a great parent. What can I say?

[Adam Scott]

That's just really commendable, Ed.

[Ed Helms]

Thank you. We're about three hours and 46 minutes into the flight. And the pilot, 48 year old Robert Pichet.

[Adam Scott]

Robert, okay.

[Ed Helms]

His phrase, Quebecois first officer. There's Also First Officer 28 year old Dirk Dieger. They noticed something odd, a fuel imbalance between the right and left engines. Now, our pilots and crew were total professionals with ample amounts of airtime, including over a thousand combined hours of FL the actual A330 model. So they knew what they were doing. But as we tend to find here at snafu, sometimes that is just not enough. The pilots initiated a new flight plan. They would call an audible here and reroute to Lajis Airport in Terceira island in the Azores. Terceira island is a beautiful volcanic island in the north Atlantic, about 900 miles closer from Lisbon. And it's a much, much easier spot to get to for Flight 236.

[Adam Scott]

Wow. So wait, they're calling this audible because of the fuel imbalance?

[Ed Helms]

Yeah, essentially they're realizing that the fuel levels are not what they should be. They're not sensing an emergency yet, but they're sort of like, we just need to make sure we're on a safe landing course here.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah.

[Ed Helms]

So we have a rendering of their flight paths here. So let's take a look at that and see what it looks like. Yeah, so you can see they say that this is a considerably safer little spot to land on.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah. And it's just a tad more than halfway to Lisbon.

[Ed Helms]

Have you ever been to the Azores?

[Adam Scott]

No. I would love to. Have you.

[Ed Helms]

No, I've been to the Canary Islands, which is another one of those weird mid Atlantic bubbles of islands. But yeah, it seems like a really beautiful place. Has kind of.

[Adam Scott]

I would imagine it is. I mean, look at that. You're right smack in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah. Let's go sometime. You and me, we're going.

[Adam Scott]

Let's go. You know what? Let's go tomorrow.

[Ed Helms]

Are we too old to just go on a backpacking trip through Europe? And that would be. Stop the Azores.

[Adam Scott]

That would be so fun. My patience would run thin with the hostels.

[Ed Helms]

Well, so no, what we would do if you and I went backpacking across Europe is we'd go into like the severance subreddit and the hangover subreddit. And we'd be like, hey, fans, we need places to stay.

[Adam Scott]

That's right. We need really nice places to stay.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah, put us up. That. That would be really funny.

[Adam Scott]

We should do that.

[Ed Helms]

We need to do that. And make a documentary. That seems like it would be very funny. So it's at this moment that one of the crew members enters the cockpit, like one of the flight attendants on some just unrelated business, only to learn that they are not going to Lisbon any longer. Not only that, Captain Pichet asks this crew member to then go back and inspect the wings for a fuel leak.

[Adam Scott]

Oh, no.

[Ed Helms]

Any guess on how you inspect a wing? If you're like in the fuselage of an airplane, how do you inspect a wing?

[Adam Scott]

I just think of the thing in Temple of Doom where they let the fuel out and it just literally looks like liquid coming out of the wing.

[Ed Helms]

You're exactly right. All you can do is just. Now it's the middle of the night. Keep in mind this is a red eye. So all you can do is walk back and then shine a flashlight out the window of the plane and look at the wing. Now, in the daylight, presumably you would be able to see fuel spraying out the back of an engine in the same way that in the Temple of Doom. But at night, even with a flashlight, there's virtually no chance of that. But also, like, what if you're that guy sitting at the window and the flight attendant is just like, I just need to check the window.

[Adam Scott]

Excuse me, sir. Oh, my God. Okay.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah. So a little tense.

[Adam Scott]

He or she goes to the window and shines a flashlight out to the wing. Yeah.

[Ed Helms]

And they.

[Adam Scott]

That would have to be a high powered flashlight, too, to see anything.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah. And probably not powerful enough. And they don't see anything because you really probably can't see anything. Even though, as we'll soon learn, there was a lot happening on that wing.

[Adam Scott]

Oh, boy.

[Ed Helms]

So with no physical evidence and no further alerts, both pilots misdiagnosed the issue as a sensor malfunction. On the bright side, they had set off from Canada with almost 50 metric tons of fuel, which is five and a half tons more than is required on such a flight path. Which is good. You want to pack some extra granola bars when you're going on a hike, right?

[Adam Scott]

100% when you're hiking across Europe. Yeah.

[Ed Helms]

Yes.

[Adam Scott]

So don't forget to pack extra granola bars, by the way, when we go on our trip.

[Ed Helms]

And this is where our pilots made a Bit of a tough call and very likely the incorrect one. There's actually a protocol for a suspected fuel leak, even if you can't verify it. Now, they could have followed that, but instead they felt confident that this was just a computer system error and there was no leak. And so they initiated the fuel imbalance procedure instead. And this fix wasn't exactly crazy. This is something that happens. And since there was indeed an imbalance, but it was probably the worst thing they could have done. So in an effort to balance the weight of the aircraft, they start pumping fuel from the left wing over to the right, not realizing that a massive crack in the fuel line of the right engine was spitting out their fuel almost as quickly as they were pumping it over. So in essence, they were just dumping fuel into the Atlantic Ocean. It's like a classic case of just making the problem worse when you're trying to solve it.

[Adam Scott]

So they basically are doing what they did in Temple of Doom and just dumping their fuel.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah.

[Adam Scott]

Oh, God.

[Ed Helms]

At this point, Flight 236 was down to 7 tons of fuel, which is only 6% of the plane's total fuel capacity.

[Adam Scott]

Oh no.

[Ed Helms]

But they're like over the middle of the Atlantic.

[Adam Scott]

Jesus.

[Ed Helms]

So Pichet continues to fiddle with various engine settings and configurations to try to save fuel. And all of a sudden the right engine shuts down. It just flames out.

[Adam Scott]

Because it's out of fuel.

[Ed Helms]

Yes.

[Adam Scott]

Oh, God.

[Ed Helms]

The pilots. This is when the pilots send a mayday signal. Thirteen minutes later, the left engine also

[Adam Scott]

completely dies because it is out of fuel.

[Ed Helms]

Also out of fuel.

[Adam Scott]

Can I ask a question? Maybe you don't know this. If you have only one engine in a giant plane like this, can you negotiate your way through a trip like this or is it also really dicey?

[Ed Helms]

This is an awesome question, and I wish I had a better answer for you. But the answer I have is that I know you can fly a jet on one engine. So like if one engine goes out, you can still fly on one engine, which is with. The physics of that are insane to me because it seems like plane would just start spinning around. Right. But there are, I guess, trims and controls ways to just sort of like keep you on track and just using that one jet engine for power.

[Adam Scott]

Wow.

[Ed Helms]

As we're about to find out, there are a cascading set of issues when an engine dies out. At this point, there's 65 nautical miles away from Lages Airport with no engines.

[Adam Scott]

Oh my God.

[Ed Helms]

This is wild. I heard some interviews with some passengers that were on this plane and one of them was talking about how it just went dead quiet. How terrifying is that? Like the jet engines die. And so it just. Now you're just like. It's just the air because that's all

[Adam Scott]

the noise when you're on a passenger jet. It's that. It's what you have the noise canceling headphones for, is to cut out that constant noise.

[Ed Helms]

It just goes silent. That is so creepy. Okay, so they have to drop altitude, they dip to 30,000ft because there's so little oxygen up there and they're going to lose cabin pressure and all this. They'll have to don their oxygen masks. Have you ever had to do that on a plane?

[Adam Scott]

No, I haven't. Have you?

[Ed Helms]

Yeah, me neither. Thank God. The jet engines of an airplane are also the primary source of electrical and hydraulic power on the plane.

[Adam Scott]

I can imagine. Yeah, sure.

[Ed Helms]

They're essentially like generators for all of your electricity on a plane. So when the engines go out, instantly all of the primary electric functions on the aircraft go out as well.

[Adam Scott]

Oh, my God.

[Ed Helms]

And it's starting to look like they're gonna have to ditch the plane in the Ocean with all 306 people on board.

[Adam Scott]

Fuck. Yeah.

[Ed Helms]

That's the right word.

[Adam Scott]

Pitch dark.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah, it's the middle of the night.

[Adam Scott]

Good God.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah. Okay, so now we're coming to the gliding portion of our evening.

[Adam Scott]

Oh, my God.

[Ed Helms]

And this is how this incident earned the name the Azores glider incident. Keep in mind, the A330 Airbus model is a wide bodied jet. It ain't designed for gliding.

[Adam Scott]

No.

[Ed Helms]

But any airplane can glide somewhat. Of course, the wings will give you

[Adam Scott]

some lift, depending on wind and all of that probably as well, right?

[Ed Helms]

Well, yeah. And your airspeed, you know, it was obviously going very fast at the time that the engines died. So it's got. Not speed. And then just the descent is going to give you additional speed. So. That's right, you can glide these things, which is incredible. You're a passenger on this plane and the electricity goes out, your oxygen mask is dropped. You're getting word that you might have to ditch in the ocean. They're probably making preparations inside the cabin for a water landing. Like what's going through your head, Adam Scott, are you good in a crisis? Are you going to be steady for people or are you going to lose your shit, dude?

[Adam Scott]

I feel like that's the kind of thing that you never know until you are faced with a situation like this. You don't know what gear you're going to shift into until you kind of find yourself faced with circumstances like this. I mean, if I just think about this trip a few weeks ago, when the plane was going. It was a small plane, it was going all over the place. When we were coming into Montana and my daughter was upset, I could see my son trying to keep a brave face on, but scared shitless. And I just had to maintain complete confidence that everything was fine. Don't worry. But I was wavering. I was not sure inside, 100%.

[Ed Helms]

This is. This is good dadding right here. I'm proud of you, Adam. That's awesome.

[Adam Scott]

That is daddy. So, I don't know. I guess it depends on who I'm with. If I'm by myself, I'm freaking out, and I'm trying to. Maybe I'm trying to contact my wife. At this point, I'm not sure. How about you? How do you feel in a situation?

[Ed Helms]

Oh, I'm so badass. I'm cool as a cucumber. No question.

[Adam Scott]

You're going up and trying to take the controls of the exact.

[Ed Helms]

Totally. Well, like you said, it's very hard to know. And the dad thing is huge. Like, I do think that being. Having that responsibility to sort of, like, keep other people calm does sort of foist a whole different perspective onto someone in that situation. And I've certainly been, like, dealt with bad injuries or things with kids where it's like, your calmness is so important, even when it's very hard. And I've made it through some of those incidents. And so, I don't know, I like to think I would be a steady sort of source of strength for people around me, but I might just be screaming and bawling and just going nuts. Who knows?

[Adam Scott]

Well, I'm sure you're right that it's not just who you're with, like, if you have your family with you, but also how the people around you are reacting. That would probably have a lot to do with what part of the puzzle you fit into.

[Ed Helms]

It could either spin you up more or give you more sort of impetus to a calm.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah, that's right.

[Ed Helms]

Who knows? Yeah, it's wild.

[Adam Scott]

Good Lord.

[Ed Helms]

I think we would be great. I'm just going to say, I'm just going to go on record.

[Adam Scott]

You and I. Yeah, I think you and I would be, dare I say, heroic.

[Ed Helms]

I think you're right.

[Adam Scott]

100%.

[Ed Helms]

Okay.

[Adam Scott]

And we're going to have this on display when we backpack across Europe.

[Ed Helms]

We're going to encounter all kinds of emergencies, and we're going to be Heroic. It's just who we are, Adam.

[Adam Scott]

Two heroes.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah, two heroes. That's the name of the doc.

[Adam Scott]

That's right.

[Ed Helms]

Okay, back to that night in 2001. Despite misreading a major fuel leak as a minor sensor issue, Captain Pichet was solid on one crucial thing. He knew the plane's gliding ratio, which is 15 to 1. That means for every 15 units forward the aircraft was traveling, it was dropping one unit in altitude. So at 33,000ft, that gave them a gliding range of roughly 75 to 100 miles.

[Adam Scott]

Wow. Okay, wait, sorry. Do we know how far they are from the landing strip on the island they're under?

[Ed Helms]

They're around 75 miles.

[Adam Scott]

Holy shit.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah. So at this point, they glided 75 miles for 19 minutes, until at last, they are approaching their rerouted destination, the Lajis Air Base. It's in sight, sort of, because it's so dark at night and this is a small island, so there's not like a ton of light around to kind of like, help them see what's happening. I find it very surprising that a massive airliner can glide for 75 to 100 miles. Is that. Do you find that reassuring? A little bit.

[Adam Scott]

I find it reassuring and I find it fascinating that these things are built. It gives you a sense of how powerful these engines are. It also gives you a sense of just how beautifully built these planes are.

[Ed Helms]

The physics and engineering of it. It's insane.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah, the physics of it are fascinating.

[Ed Helms]

It's really, really wild.

[Adam Scott]

I would imagine it also has to do. And probably as they get lower, there's more air for them to glide on. The air gets a little interesting, less thin as they get lower. Is that.

[Ed Helms]

I'm sure you're right.

[Adam Scott]

I have no idea what I'm talking about.

[Ed Helms]

That's some cool atmospheric calculation you're doing. I like that.

[Adam Scott]

That's right. I like that. I just did an atmospheric calculation. There you go. That sounds great. Segregation in the day. Integration at night.

[Podcast Announcer]

When segregation was the law, one mysterious black club owner had his own rules. We didn't worry about what went on outside. It was like stepping in another world. Inside Charlie's place, black and white people danced together. But not everyone was happy about it. You saw the kkk.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah. They were dressed up in their uniform.

[Ed Helms]

The KKK set out to raid Charlie,

[Adam Scott]

take him away from here. Charlie was an example of power. They had to crush him.

[Podcast Announcer]

From Atlas Obscurity, Rococo Punch, and visit Myrtle beach comes Charlie's Place, a story that was nearly lost to time until now listen to Charlie's place on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. A ambitious, well intentioned, ferocious and wealthy mother looks like in the black community. This woman's History Month. The podcast Keep It Posit Sweetie celebrates the power of women choosing healing, purpose and faith. Even when life gets messy, love is not a destination.

[Ed Helms]

You have to work on it every day.

[Podcast Announcer]

Keep it positive. Sweetie creates space for honest conversations on self worth, love, growth and navigating life with grace and grit, led by women who uplift, inspire, and tell the truth out loud. I have several conversations with God and I know why it took 20 years to hear this and more. Listen to Keep It Pies as sweetie on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. It's the new me and it's the old them. Everybody's on their journey and your journey is different to theirs. This woman's History Month. The podcast if you Knew Better with Amber Grimes spotlights women who turn missteps into momentum and lessons into power. I think coming out of where I came from, I'm from the Bronx. I think I grew up really poor. I didn't know that then because I very much use my creativity to romanticize life and I'm like, my mom. Mom did a really good job of like, you step back and you're like, whoa. We. I don't know how we made it so a lot of my life was like, built out of, like, survival to get to the next place, like my drive, my, like, tunnel vision of like, I gotta be better, I gotta achieve. This was off the strengths of like, I want to make a better life for us. If youf Knew Better brings real talk from women who've lived it, unpacking, career pivot, relationship lessons, and the mindset shifts that changed everything. Listen to if you knew Better with Amber grimes on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Ana Navarro, and on my new podcast, Bleep with Anna Navarro, I'm talking to the people closest to the biggest issues happening in your community and around the world. Because I know deep down inside right now we are all cursing and asking what the blood leap is going on. I'm talking to people like Julie K. Brown, who broke the explosive story on Jeffrey Epstein in 2018. These victims have been let down time and time again for decades and decades and decades by local law enforcement, by federal law enforcement, by administration after administration.

[Adam Scott]

The Justice Department through, I think we

[Podcast Announcer]

counted for Presidential administration failed these victims. Listen to BLEEP with Ana Navarro as part of the My Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ed Helms]

Well, now it's still really early in the morning or late at night, depending on how you're looking at it. So it's very, very dark. Pichet and Diego, they couldn't exactly see their surroundings very much. Not to mention the fact that. But it's basically dark. They have some electric. This is very cool. There's another special piece of technology that was a bit of a rock star that night. And that is what's called a RAM air turbine, or rat. So in case of emergency engine out scenarios, and these do happen more often than you think, there is this rat. It is a small wind turbine that deploys, I think, from the bottom of the jet usually. And it's basically a little propeller that is a power generator. And so the power of the wind is hitting this little turbine and it generates some extra hydraulic and electrical power when everything else has failed.

[Adam Scott]

It gives them just enough power to have the minimum hydraulics that they need.

[Ed Helms]

Exactly. And to power some of the instruments in the cockpit and so forth. So, like, that's wild. Yeah. And talk about. I mean, you were marveling at the engineering of these things. There's so many things about airplanes that are just mind blowing. Yeah. So with help from the rat, do

[Adam Scott]

you also wish, as I do, that it was an actual RAT that deploys in emergencies? He has a little captain's hat on. I do wish that he really knows what he's doing.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah. And he just has a hamster wheel. And that's what's generating the power that

[Adam Scott]

generates all the power. That's right.

[Ed Helms]

Oh, that would be amazing. I actually wish it was the heavy metal band rap.

[Adam Scott]

Oh, God, me too.

[Ed Helms]

And that they were on the plane and that they would just rock so hard that there was. Right.

[Adam Scott]

Remember the hair metal band Rat generating power, man.

[Ed Helms]

Exactly.

[Adam Scott]

Okay. They just need to play out of the cellar and everyone would be rocking out so much they wouldn't even realize they're in danger.

[Ed Helms]

No, no, not at all. The engineering to get the band RAT into the cargo hold of every airplane flight. That seems like a tricky proposition. But I'm sure we can figure it out.

[Adam Scott]

It's challenging, but this is America.

[Ed Helms]

Not insurmountable. Y this.

[Adam Scott]

Right?

[Ed Helms]

This is America. You're right.

[Adam Scott]

That's right.

[Ed Helms]

With the help of this RAM air turbine, the pilots managed to bring a few critical systems back Online and fly the plane by hand. But they're still dropping really, really fast with limited control and zero thrust. Right, Right. They just is getting closer and closer, which means there is no time for caution. This is it. They have one shot at this landing. None of this is normal. None of the trajectory and a descent rate and all those things. None of it is like chill. So air traffic controllers at Lajis are actually flickering the Runway lights on and off to help them see in the dark, which is insane. The A330 approaches Lages Airport at a very high speed and steep descent angle. Pichet actually had to maintain a speed over 140 knots so that the ram air turbine would continue to function. But he couldn't go above 200 knots or the landing gear might not extend.

[Adam Scott]

Oh, my God.

[Ed Helms]

As they get closer, Pichet realized he may have been, and this is another little tasty bit of irony, he may have been too good at gliding. Because a normal approach, you would come into the airport at 3,000ft when you're about 10 miles away from the Runway. Pichet had kept the plane up so high for so long that they were actually at 13,000ft and now only eight miles away. So they're too high.

[Adam Scott]

They're too high.

[Ed Helms]

The Piche has got some serious balls on this guy.

[Adam Scott]

Dude, he's a badass.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah. He decides to pull a 360 degree turn so that he could drop several thousand feet, all while Dheger is putting out the landing gear.

[Adam Scott]

That is a roll of the dice because you're dropping the whole time with no thrust.

[Ed Helms]

You cannot go back up. You've got no room to go back up.

[Adam Scott]

So if he gets too low, then they're fucked.

[Ed Helms]

Right. But he makes this basically like a circle. And meanwhile, Dieger is dropping the landing gear. Now this is a wild thing. Usually it's a hydraulic system that is like fully electronic and everything and it just drops. But when you have no power, there are actually these levers or sort of like pull latches on the floor of the cockpit under a panel that you open up and you pull these latches up. And that's you manually deploy the landing gear. Gear.

[Adam Scott]

Wow.

[Ed Helms]

And it pulls these cables and it releases the landing gear. The landing gear then falls from the plane from gravity, not from the hydraulic pressure. So it's really why. That's why he has to maintain a speed. Because if he's going too fast, it will. Yeah. They get the landing gear out by hand in the. What's called the free fall method of landing gear deployment. And down. They're going 200 knots. The plane makes contact with the Runway, and it hits hard.

[Adam Scott]

I bet.

[Ed Helms]

In fact, it hits so hard that the plane bounces and the landing gear and the tires burst from the impact.

[Adam Scott]

Oh, God.

[Ed Helms]

Somehow Piche brings it back down and the crew manages to keep the aircraft on the Runway and bring it to a stop. And holy shit, we are saved.

[Adam Scott]

Wow.

[Ed Helms]

Are you surprised, P. Shea? Yep.

[Adam Scott]

This guy. This guy is a badass.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah.

[Adam Scott]

That is crazy.

[Ed Helms]

Some. Some questionable choices in the mix of the process, but no question this man has mad skills and a serious, like, pilot's disposition. Here's the casualty list. 16 passengers sustained minor injuries, and most of those were from the evacuation of the plane.

[Adam Scott]

Sure. Which is usually what happens.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah, yeah, right. Which reportedly was completed in approximately 90 seconds. And now that's incredible to me, because when I think of people deplaning, it is such a. Just dumpster fire of elbows and anger and luggage pulling down and whatever. But I would also imagine that being scared of a plane exploding might help you get off a little bit quicker. Yeah.

[Adam Scott]

I have a question for you. I always think about. Because just the other day, people had to evacuate a Southwest flight or something, and I saw the footage of them, like, bouncing down the slide that they deploy off the side of the plane.

[Ed Helms]

Oh, I missed that.

[Adam Scott]

And I know that they always say, when you are evacuating a plane, do not grab your bags. Nothing. You just get off the plane. Would you have a tough time just leaving your stuff on the plane? I feel like. Feel like I would grab my bag no matter what they said.

[Ed Helms]

Oh, that's.

[Adam Scott]

I guess it depends how dire the situation is.

[Ed Helms]

What's in your bag, Adam? Listen, is it your hair? Like, what's going on? Do we need to talk about this?

[Adam Scott]

Ed, take it easy.

[Ed Helms]

You're like, I don't want to be without question. Raises additional questions.

[Adam Scott]

I guess you're right. Never mind.

[Ed Helms]

Never mind. Moving on. I think I would. I think I would be pretty okay leaving my bag.

[Adam Scott]

Okay.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah. I mean, I like my AirPod Maxes, and I love my laptop. I kind of would die without it. I don't love it, but I would be in trouble without it.

[Adam Scott]

But I would leave it.

[Ed Helms]

I would leave it behind. I don't think that makes me a better person than you, Adam. But maybe. Maybe a little.

[Adam Scott]

I was just kidding when I said all that about wanting to grab my bag. That wasn't real.

[Ed Helms]

I still think you're a good person.

[Adam Scott]

Oh, thank you. Thank you. Okay, great.

[Ed Helms]

I still Think you're a good person no matter what. Remarkably, all 306 people on board survived. And the plane, the plane itself was mostly intact. Pichet and Diego were heroes. Later investigations found that had the pilots followed any of the traditional fuel leak procedures set in place, remember, they opted not to do so. They would have actually been much better off and land totally safely with 3.8 metric tons of fuel still on board. But hindsight is 20 20. Despite this, Pichet was awarded the Superior Airmanship Award and was even the subject of a 2010 docudrama about the events of the fateful night called in French, pichet entre ciel etair.

[Adam Scott]

Oh, my God.

[Ed Helms]

Or in English, pichet between the earth and the sky.

[Adam Scott]

Oh, gotta see it.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah, yeah, check it out. And just what was the cause of the fuel leak, Adam Scott? Well, it turns out that the fuel tube and the hydraulic line didn't have as much separation as the mechanics thought. So vibrations from the engine power caused an immense amount of chafing to occur. I know what that's like, let me tell you.

[Adam Scott]

Oh, man. Chafing. Yeah.

[Ed Helms]

You at middle age. The chafing just goes through the roof.

[Adam Scott]

Yeah.

[Ed Helms]

Eventually this created a three inch crack. I know. You know what that's like 100% the three inch crack.

[Adam Scott]

You don't have to tell me you

[Ed Helms]

have a three inch crack.

[Adam Scott]

I do. You have three inch.

[Ed Helms]

Very cute, tiny little butt with a three inch crack.

[Adam Scott]

I've always three inches.

[Ed Helms]

I'm gonna cut all this.

[Adam Scott]

It's all you need.

[Ed Helms]

It's all you need. So vibrations from the engine power caused an immense amount of chafing to occur, eventually creating a 3. All this chafing eventually created a 3 inch crack in the fuel tube. Here's an image. Let's take a look.

[Adam Scott]

That's what caused all this. Yeah, that's it. That's it.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah, that. That is where all of the fuel just like gushed out into the Atlantic Ocean. We're not even talking about the poor fishies who are like, like drinking gasoline all of a sudden. That's a big bummer.

[Adam Scott]

They're like, what the fuck is all this? Yeah, it's crazy when you look at something like that, which is just a crack in a tube. That shit doesn't go wrong more often with these giant aircraft.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah, I agree. Why can't we bring the same attention to detail and like perfect execution, track record to homeless management or city government or all these things, efficiency and safety with which these airlines operate. It's totally breathtaking.

[Adam Scott]

It's mind blowing.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah. The amount of maintenance and upkeep that these planes require. And there are so many protocols and safeguards in place that the safety record is amazing. I mean there's obviously still accidents, but like, it's incredible.

[Adam Scott]

It really is.

[Ed Helms]

And to me that's like one of the great human achievements is just like successful commercial aviation. It's mind blowing 100%.

[Adam Scott]

And for. I'm sure you fly all the time of people who fly all the time. It really, you couldn't be more grateful that we have that the world really has this aviation system that pretty close to perfect.

[Ed Helms]

Think about if the safety record degraded from here even just a little bit, how damaging that would be to the entire industry. I mean, not to mention like dangerous for people. But it could just implode the airline industry because once people don't trust it, every flight is life or death.

[Adam Scott]

Totally.

[Ed Helms]

So this little Airbus A330 that could. It was miraculously repaired and returned to service. It continued to fly for Air Transat until It retired in 2021. As a result of Flight 236, Air Transat revised its maintenance procedures and enhanced crew training. And despite the incident, the airline's reputation remained largely intact because of the successful landing. Thanks to Pichet, Flight 236 is now a case study used in aviation schools and pilot training programs. And that is our story. Adam Scott, any major takeaways, major observations or lessons for you?

[Adam Scott]

Well, as I learned from Nathan Fielder, most airline incidents are due to pilot error. But also most airline kind of close calls or things going right are because of pilot skill. So they hopefully balance each other out. I remember once we were on a flight to Hawaii and just short of the halfway mark to Hawaii, the pilot came on and said we were turning around because of a malfunction. Right?

[Ed Helms]

Oh no.

[Adam Scott]

And so for the two and a half hours, whatever it was, back to Los Angeles, all I could think was we were just about halfway. Whatever it is that's wrong with the plane, they are buying the 20 to 30 minutes rather than just, you know, continuing on. They think it's serious enough that we. So it was two and a half hours of holy shit, what's going to happen?

[Ed Helms]

Yeah.

[Adam Scott]

And you know, that may have been a pilot just making a call and he or she made the right call. So you just kind of never know. I don't know if I would be able to make calls like that, I guess is what I'm trying to say.

[Ed Helms]

I do think there's. You're onto something. We were joking earlier about how we would handle a crisis like this. It's the pilots are tested so rigorously and trained so much that they are very often very reliable in these emergency situations. And it is incredible. I don't know if you remember the movie the Right Stuff. Did you ever watch that movie? 100% right. Sam Shepard plays Chuck Yeager, the famous test pilot. Chuck Yeager had a reputation for just never, ever, ever panicking. Even in the most insane like. Like his. He would be testing a jet that would fall into a flat spin and start cartwheeling back down to earth. And he'd just be like, okay, I need to engage right flaps. Always have them. And he was legendary for that.

[Adam Scott]

That's so crazy.

[Ed Helms]

That's like a pilot's disposition. There's something superhuman about it. And I think that's incredibly cool and admirable because it's not just being cool under pressure. It's like maintaining the ability to problem solve.

[Adam Scott]

That's right.

[Ed Helms]

And stay analytical and, like, keep your wits about you. I feel like I could, like, it would be heroic just to remain calm.

[Adam Scott]

Just to keep that heart rate down

[Ed Helms]

or to keep the veneer of calm as a parent. But even if you're panicking inside, but to stay calm and still be able to process and think and make shrewd decisions, that is extremely badass. Yeah. Adam Scott. I am already planning the logistics of our backpacking trip across Europe in my mind, and I can't wait for that to happen. And we're gonna make an Oscar winning documentary about it.

[Adam Scott]

That's right. Thank you for saying Oscar. I think you're right. That's exactly right. I'll be featured film. Yes.

[Ed Helms]

I always love hanging out with you and I'm so grateful you came on board.

[Adam Scott]

Thank you for having me. I'm really, really happy to be here. Thanks, man. That was a great story too.

[Ed Helms]

Thank you. Awesome. SNAFU is a production of iHeart podcasts and SNAFU Media, a partnership between Film Nation Entertainment and Pacific Electric Picture Company. Post production and creative support from Good Egg Audio. Our executive producers are me, Ed Helms, Mike Falbo, Glenn Basner, Andy Kim and Dylan Fagan. This episode was produced by Alyssa Martino and Tori Smith. Our managing producer is Carl Nellis. Our video editor is Jared Smith. Technical direction and engineering from Nick Dooley. Additional story editing from Carl Nellis. Our creative executive is Brett Harris. Logo and branding by Matt Gossen and the Collected Works l Legal review from Dan Welch, Megan Halson and Caroline Johnson. Special thanks to Isaac Dunham, Adam Horne, Lane Klein, and everyone at iHeart podcasts, but especially Will Pearson, Kerry Lieberman, and Nikki Ator. While I have you, don't forget to pick up a copy of my book snafu the Definitive Guide to History's Greatest Screw Ups. It's available now from any book retailer. Just go to snafu. Thanks for listening and see you next week. This is the biggest night in podcasting.

[Adam Scott]

The countdown is on to our 2026 iHeart Podcast Awards. Live from south by Southwest, March 16th. We'll honor the very best in podcasting from the past year and celebrate the most innovative, talented creators in the industry. It's truly a who's who of the podcasting world. Creativity, knowledge and passion will all be on full display.

[Ed Helms]

And the winner of the iheart podcast award is.

[Adam Scott]

See all the nominees [e-mail] podcast awards

[Podcast Announcer]

Audible is a proud sponsor of the Audible Audio Pioneer Award. Explore the best selection of audiobooks, podcasts and originals all in one easy app. Audible. There's more to imagine when you listen. Sign up for a free [e-mail] when segregation was a law, one mysterious black club owner, Charlie Fitzgerald, had his own rules.

[Adam Scott]

Segregation in the day, integration at night.

[Ed Helms]

It was like stepping on another world.

[Podcast Announcer]

Was he a businessman? A criminal? A hero?

[Adam Scott]

Charlie was an example, a power they had to crush him.

[Podcast Announcer]

Charlie's Place from Atlas Obscura and visit Myrtle Beach. Listen to Charlie's place on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.