SNAFU with Ed Helms – S4E9: Jake Tapper and the Sinking of the Lusitania

Release Date: December 3, 2025
Guest: Jake Tapper, CNN anchor and author
Theme: A deep dive into the infamous sinking of the Lusitania during WWI, the tangled web of blame, and how history’s screwups still shape our world.

Overview

This episode of SNAFU finds Ed Helms joined by CNN’s Jake Tapper. Together, they unpack the story of the Lusitania, exploring how one catastrophic event—rooted in hubris, secrecy, and murky rules of war—served as a domino in history, pushing the U.S. toward WWI and changing the world’s trajectory. True to the podcast’s spirit, the discussion blends irreverent humor, historical insight, and thoughtful debate about accountability and moral ambiguity in times of crisis.

Key Discussion Points and Major Insights

1. Jake Tapper: Newsman in an Endless SNAFU (03:13 – 05:14)

• Helms welcomes Tapper and jokes about their resemblance:
  “There’s a lot of forehead going on right now on this podcast. There’s eight head.” – Jake Tapper (03:07)
• Tapper reflects on the relentless news cycle:
  “Now, does that mean I’m excited about the threats being made to TV news stations? No, I’m not ... But it is true that there is no shortage of stuff to cover to the point that we really have to prioritize.” (03:45)

2. World War I: Setting the Stage (06:00 – 08:33)

• Helms delivers a comic “Looney Tunes bar fight” version of WWI’s origins:
  “Austria swings at Serbia, Russia’s like, oh hell no. Germany hops up and smashes a chair over Russia … It’s just absolute chaos.” (06:16)
• Jake notes America enters late:
  “Doesn’t the US kind of come in a little bit and save the day a little bit, teeny bit, in this metaphor?” (07:49)

3. Life (and Death) on the U-Boat (09:01 – 11:52)

• First U-boats: Technology, terror, and claustrophobia.
• Tapper is blunt:
  “Oh God, no … The claustrophobic nature of a submarine sounds just— I haven’t even seen Das Boot because of, like, I don’t. This seems like it would be really awful.” (10:34)
• The ever-present risk:
  “If any seawater touched [the batteries], it instantly turned into chlorine gas.” – Helms (10:53)
  “There’s been a bunch [submarine disasters] ... it's all so insane.” – Tapper (11:16)

4. Enter the Lusitania: Glamour Meets Danger (12:41 – 15:41)

• British ship, launched 1906—fast, luxurious, and seen as nearly untouchable.
• Comic cruise asides lead to jokes about “the upside down pineapple” (swingers’ symbol):
  “Or you’re open to swinging with other upside down pineapples…” – Helms (16:00)
• Tapper gripes about cruises:
  “Unless you have control of the passenger list … Do you want to be locked on a ship with people? People. I’m talking about people.” (15:31)

5. Munitions in the Hold: The Heart of the SNAFU (19:10 – 20:13)

• The Lusitania was a civilian ship—on paper.
• In reality, it often carried munitions for Britain, unknown to passengers:
  “That’s some dirty shit. That’s not cool.” – Tapper (19:54)
• Germany publicly warned, even in New York newspapers, that British waters were a war zone, and ships like the Lusitania could be targeted. (20:16)

6. The Sinking: One Torpedo, Two Explosions, and Endless Debate (23:12 – 30:33)

• On May 7, 1915, a U-boat torpedoed the Lusitania near Ireland; a second explosion followed, possibly from munitions or coal dust.
• Only 18 minutes to sink, over 1,200 dead out of nearly 2,000 aboard; 123 Americans among the victims.
• Tapper on rules of war:
  “The conceit of civilized warfare is we don’t target civilians. And once you as a country violate that separation, it is on you, not your enemy, for doing that.” (25:48)

7. Rules, Morality, and Hypocrisy in War (26:37 – 29:49)

• Old maritime “prize laws”: Submarines were supposed to warn and allow evacuation, but became too vulnerable doing so.
• “These rules are so weird … Just the one that I’m reminded of is the fact that the chemical warfare in World War I was so horrific that they didn’t engage in chemical warfare in World War II.” – Tapper (27:54)
• “It is wild if you think about it. Like, the point of a war is just to win. But there is … this kind of overarching morality.” – Helms (28:28)

8. Aftermath and the Domino Effect (30:50 – 36:10)

• Massive outrage in the U.S. and Britain; The incident nudges U.S. public opinion toward war.
• British code-breaking may have known about the U-boat threat but didn’t warn Lusitania to protect intelligence secrets.
• Jake spells out the logic:
  “The Lusitania sinking doesn’t actually hurt the British war effort … could rally the Americans to join the effort. I mean, that’s how these bastards think.” (33:27)
• The Zimmerman Telegram—Germany’s offer to help Mexico regain US territories—becomes the final straw, and the U.S. enters the war.

9. “Dominoes” and The Difficulty of Foresight (38:21 – 41:43)

• Helms: The “domino effect” is only obvious in hindsight; at the time, it’s confusing which moments truly matter.
• Tapper shares the “We’ll see” parable from Charlie Wilson’s War, warning against simple cause-and-effect thinking in history:
  “One of my favorite monologues … is this whole thing about the Zen master and the child. … That is everything.” (39:22)
• On the Lusitania leading to the U.S. entry, then the Treaty of Versailles, then WWII:
  “Would it have been better in history if Germany had won World War I? I mean, maybe then Hitler wouldn’t have come to power …” – Tapper (41:43)

10. Blame, Accountability, and the SNAFU Award (42:13 – 46:00)

• Helms and Tapper debate the real “snafu”: hiding munitions or the loss itself.
• Tapper:
  “The snafu in this is the decision to put the munitions in the ship.” (43:56)
  “Whoever made that decision, that’s who I give the SNAFU award to. Not that you give awards at the end of these, but still.” (44:52)
• They agree: hiding military goods among civilians remains dangerously common and morally problematic today.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“It feels like this is just a recurring thing throughout history and even perhaps all around us as we speak.”
— Ed Helms, connecting past and present (08:06)

“That’s some dirty shit. That’s not cool.”
— Jake Tapper, on hiding munitions in a civilian ship (19:54)

“It is wild if you think about it. Like, the point of a war is just to win. But there is … this kind of overarching morality that we want to preserve human dignity somehow.”
— Ed Helms, on wartime morality (28:28)

"We’ll see."
— Jake Tapper, channeling the “Zen master” story to explain hindsight bias in history (39:22)

“No one is ever held accountable. Correct. And more likely they are rewarded in some way for the snafus.”
— Ed Helms, on the lack of consequences for disastrous decisions (42:30)

Important Timestamps

• Ed introduces Tapper and discusses the state of news – 03:07–04:44
• WWI comic history rundown – 06:16–08:33
• U-boat horrors and sub disasters – 09:01–11:52
• Lusitania specs & cruise humor detour – 12:41–16:36
• The munitions secret & German warnings – 19:10–20:49
• Sinking of the Lusitania, causes & chaos – 23:12–30:33
• Rules of engagement and messy morality – 26:37–29:49
• Aftermath, intelligence, and U.S. entry – 30:50–36:10
• Dominoes and “We’ll see” parable – 38:21–41:43
• The blame game & SNAFU Award – 42:13–46:00

Closing Segment: Tapper’s New Book and Parting Thoughts (46:03–49:11)

• Tapper shares the fascinating premise of his new book, Race Against Terror:
  “…it’s the Arab Spring, 2004. Refugees from Tunisia and Libya…a short African guy from Niger approaches a guard and says he wants water. The guard notices he has a bullet… he says, ‘well, I got it fighting Americans in Afghanistan. I’m with Al Qaeda.’” (46:07)
• Ed wraps up with thanks and invites Tapper to return:
  "Can I do this every week?" – Tapper
  "Let's do it, you can be my co-host." – Helms (49:20)

Summary

Ed Helms and Jake Tapper’s discussion of the Lusitania spirals from history lesson to philosophical debate, focusing less on specific blame and more on the complexity, unpredictability, and moral ambiguity that characterizes history’s greatest snafus. The episode is funny, thoughtful, and challenges listeners to consider how events—seemingly isolated—can ripple out in ways no one could’ve foreseen. And, as ever, the true SNAFU may be humanity’s endless ability to stumble, rationalize, and, against all odds, keep moving forward.