Loves Actually / Fever

Summary

Snap Judgment – "Loves Actually / Fever" (Feb 19, 2026)

Episode Overview

This episode of Snap Judgment, hosted by Glynn Washington, dives deep into stories about love, trust, and devotion—stories with feverish heart, exploring the extraordinary lengths people will go to care for one another. The two-part episode starts with a sweeping, unconventional love story ("Loves Actually") of Mill and Carolyn—or how love endures, adapts, and finds new form amid illness and heartbreak. The second story, "Fever," recasts the concept of love through the lens of trust and loss in an unexpected human–animal relationship at a bonobo sanctuary in the Congo.

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"Loves Actually": Devotion Through Change

Setting the Stage (01:51–03:40)

• Glynn opens with reflections on the vows that bond us, the promises couples make, and how life often forces us to reinterpret what "for better or worse" really means.
• “Life has a way of lifing. And there are many, many ways to keep a promise.” – Glynn Washington [01:59]

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Mill & Carolyn: The Early Days (03:40–05:26)

• Mill and Carolyn meet in Colorado in 1987, drawn together by a shared love of garage sales, pottery, and each other's company.
• “She was hugely into pottery. … I learned how to spot pottery.” – Mill Markle [03:40]
• Their courtship is filled with warmth; Mill recalls running Carolyn baths, pouring wines, and unexpectedly proposing with: “Well, I had planned on it for Christmas, but since you ask, here's the ring.” – Mill Markle [05:03]

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Health Challenges: MS Diagnosis and Its Consequences (05:32–07:45)

• A few years into marriage, Carolyn’s strange symptoms lead to an MS (Multiple Sclerosis) diagnosis.
• Mill describes how Carolyn faced the progression with grace, even as it meant giving up familiar comforts (like beer and sports), new medications, and eventually, plans for children.
• “We made the decision there would be no child. Carolyn at times would say to me, you need to leave me. … And I told her, no, that's not going to happen.” – Mill Markle [07:08]

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Shifting Promises: Carolyn’s Final Act of Love (08:26–12:40)

Carolyn’s Choice

• Carolyn decides to stop treatment, wanting to “let nature take its course.” Mill is stunned, struggling to imagine life without her.
• A pivotal moment: Carolyn expresses, in front of her doctor, her wish for Mill to find a new partner before she dies—then jokes, “I’m going to find her for him.”
  • “That’s the most unselfish thing I have ever heard in my life.” – Doctor [09:29]
  • “But I'm going to find her for him.” – Carolyn [09:43]

Creating a Dating Profile

• Carolyn insists Mill create an online profile, personally dictating what should go on it (“She made it sound like I was better than I thought I was.” – Mill [11:05]).
• They leave out Mill’s marital status, but he is upfront with respondents, explaining his wife’s illness and her encouragement.

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Meeting Jan: From Awkwardness to Connection (12:49–16:19)

The First Replies

• Jan, living in Wyoming, notices Mill’s picture. After initial hesitation ("I don't date married men." – Jan [13:30]), Mill offers to let her speak to Carolyn. Carolyn reassures Jan of her intentions: “By no means am I a home wrecker... I would love to meet you.” – Carolyn (as relayed by Jan) [14:28]

Difficult Emotions

• For Jan, the situation stirs up old wounds about infidelity, but she is moved by the genuine love and trust between Mill and Carolyn: “That's the kind of love that I want.” – Jan [16:01]

Building a Relationship

• Mill and Jan talk daily for weeks, discovering a natural rapport, leading to their first in-person meeting halfway between their homes.

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The New Normal: Navigating Love, Loss, and Guilt (17:07–37:37)

First Date Nerves (17:07–18:17)

• Jan wrestles with self-worth, determined to “go for something good.” Mill, anxious, braves the date despite fear of rejection: “Why would anybody want a guy that's got a wife that's dying?” – Mill [18:17]

Life as a Threesome (23:55–34:17)

• Jan and Mill’s relationship blossoms, leading to the three living together—Mill sleeps with Jan in one room, Carolyn in another.
• “It was strange having her there. It felt like infidelity.” – Mill [30:00]
• Yet, Carolyn welcomes Jan: “You just need to move in here.” – Carolyn [29:12]
• The setup is emotionally complex. Jan and Carolyn bond: listening to audiobooks, shopping, even squabbling. Jan describes Carolyn as her “best friend.” [35:32]
• They encounter tense moments—Carolyn admits jealousy (“I want her gone”), but later apologizes: “It’s just my way of controlling Mill.” – Carolyn (as relayed by Jan) [33:21]

Closure and Transition (34:17–37:37)

• As Carolyn’s health fails, Mill is her caretaker to the end: “I was right there... I just closed her eyes and gave her a kiss on the forehead and told her goodbye.” – Mill [35:26]
• Jan pledges to take care of Mill; guilt weighs upon her for the “price” of her happiness: “Someone has to die for my life to move on. And that, to me, was devastating.” – Jan [36:03]
• Mill and Jan, now married, incorporate Carolyn’s wedding dress into flower girl dresses, honoring her memory: “I thank God every day for him and her, and I loved her and I always will.” – Jan [37:37]

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"Fever": Trusting Love Beyond Words

Brian, Vanessa, and Malou: An Unusual Triangle (41:30–49:51)

Whirlwind Romance in Kinshasa

• Vanessa vividly recounts her lightning-fast relationship with Brian, culminating in marriage and mutual work at the Loli bonobo sanctuary in Congo.
• “The actual time face to face that we spent before we decided to get married was about three weeks.” – Vanessa [41:33]

Malou Enters the Story

• Malou, a rescued infant bonobo and “the international model,” captivates Brian with focused, unwavering affection—leaving Vanessa feeling like “the other woman.”
• “She just knew what she was doing as well...and when she saw him, they just had this moment where like time stopped...from the second Brian, I just knew he was gone.” – Vanessa [41:53]
• “Bonobos... they choose you. … It’s like a laser beam.” – Vanessa [44:35]
• Malou’s love for Brian is reciprocated, seen in their unique games, trust, and deep connection.

Lessons in Love and Trust

• Vanessa describes her jealousy, the humorous disapproval from staff (“Vanill, Malute. I mean, she hates you.” – The mamas [46:03]), but also a growing appreciation for the trust exemplified between Brian and Malou: “In order to be in love, you have to completely trust that person, even though you know that you don’t have control on whether they catch you or not.” – Vanessa [47:33]

Endings and Legacies

• Malou’s unexpected death devastates Brian. Years later, Vanessa proposes using Malou’s name for their daughter, cementing the ongoing presence of this unusual triangle in their family. “He didn’t say anything, but he smiled. And that’s her name.” – Vanessa [49:41]

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Notable Quotes

• On the unpredictability of love:
  “There are many, many ways to keep a promise.” – Glynn Washington [01:59]
• On devotion:
  “We had to stay by each other and fight through this, make it happen.” – Mill Markle [07:35]
• On selflessness:
  “That is the most unselfish thing I have ever heard in my life.” – Doctor to Carolyn [09:29]
• On guilt and transition:
  “Someone has to die for my life to move on. And that, to me, was devastating.” – Jan Markle [36:03]
• On trust:
  “In order to be in love, you have to completely trust that person, even though you know that you don’t have control on whether they catch you or not.” – Vanessa Woods [47:33]

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Key Timestamps & Moments

• Mill & Carolyn’s early relationship & proposal – [03:40–05:26]
• MS diagnosis & impact – [05:32–07:45]
• Carolyn’s wish for Mill to find a partner – [08:26–10:53]
• Mill and Jan’s meeting & connection – [12:49–17:34]
• First date jitters and Jan moves in – [17:07–30:27]
• Death of Carolyn, aftermath, and future – [34:17–37:37]
• Vanessa’s story — jealousy, bonobo trust, and love – [41:30–49:51]

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Tone & Takeaways

This episode threads a tender, honest tone—unflinching about grief, illness, and ethical complexity but brimming with humor, humility, and ultimately hope. Both stories unravel what it means to love—and let go—on someone else's terms, whether a spouse or an animal companion. The willingness to trust, to honor memory, and to remake family in love’s aftermath remain at the center.

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Memorable Moments

• Carolyn dictating Mill’s dating profile—with affection and vision. [10:24]
• Jan’s and Carolyn’s first meeting: “It was like I was sitting next to my sister or something.” – Jan [26:39]
• Carolyn’s request for her wedding dress to become part of Mill and Jan’s new beginning. [37:09]
• Vanessa realizing what bonobos teach about true trust and the vulnerability of love. [47:33]

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For Listeners

Whether you approach this episode with skepticism or longing, "Loves Actually / Fever" offers a multifaceted meditation on what it means to cherish, grieve, and trust in love—human, animal, or otherwise.

Transcript

[Glenn Washington]

Snap studios. You never know how much I love you. You never know how much I care. Cause when you put your arms around me, you'll get a fever that's so hard to bear. Snap's new three part series Fever. Celebrate stories with a heart like you've never heard before. Fever in February, only on Snap Judgment. It's such a lovely way to burn.

[Vanessa Woods]

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[Vanessa Woods]

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[Sponsor/Announcer]

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[Glenn Washington]

Snappers love, relationship, trust are often. Not always, but often built on a promise that you and me against the world, for better or for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, till death do us part. These are big words, maybe even the biggest words there are. But life has a way of lifing. And there are many, many ways to keep a promise. Today in SnapJudgsman's Fever series, stories of the heart, we explore just one of them. Snap probably presents loves. Actually, my name is Glenn Washington. Write your vows very carefully when you're listening to Snap Judg. Now, Mill and Carolyn were a Colorado couple who love going to garage sales. It was their special time until the marriage got hit with a curveball. A big one. And listeners buckle up because from that point on, they had to do things a lot differently. We're gonna start with the garage sales. Snap judgment.

[Mill Markle]

She was hugely into pottery. We would go to yard sales and she would just sit in the car and I learned how to spot pottery. If we found a piece, I'd pick it up, take it to the window of the car and she'd tell me, yes, or no, whether to buy it or not.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Mill and Carolyn met in 1987, long before their troubles, when they were both in their early 20s.

[Mill Markle]

I don't know that I could call her a city girl, but she was definitely far more worldly than I am. She'd lived in Germany, Pennsylvania, a lot of places she had been that I had never been. I had a very strong connection with her from the start. After we dated quite a while and I moved in with her. I would run her a bath when I knew she was coming home and, you know, have a glass of wine ready for her. And I just. I just kind of knew at that point that I was falling in love with her. We went out and we shot pistols one day, and she blew me away when we did that, because she was a great shot.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

She just might have been the straightest shooter ever. Like when they moved into a new house and one of the first orders of business was to secure a new washer and dryer. And when they finally figured out which hose connected to which doohickey, they stepped back to admire their work.

[Mill Markle]

And she's like, I feel like I'm getting tied down because we just purchased this washer and dryer. Are you ever going to ask me to marry you? And I was like, well, I had planned on it for Christmas, but since you. Since you ask, here's the ring.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Did you get there on one knee?

[Mill Markle]

No, she didn't give me time.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

About two years after that romantic proposal, they were shopping one day at a mall in a neighboring town.

[Mill Markle]

We were walking through the mall, and she was just going from one side to the other and just wasn't walking in a straight line. I just. I'm like, carolyn, why are you walking from one side of the mall to the other continually? She said, I didn't know. I was.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Two weeks later, Carolyn started to notice problems with her vision. It's bad enough that they ended up going to a neurologist who ran tests and then more tests. The neurologist wanted to be sure of a diagnosis.

[Mill Markle]

He told us, you know, that she

[Narrator/Interviewer]

had ms, multiple sclerosis.

[Mill Markle]

Carolyn handled the Ms. Better than I did. I believe she did have to change her lifestyle quite a bit. She enjoyed having a beer and, you know, sitting down and watching sports and stuff like that. But she got to the point where she could no longer drink at all. It just made her extremely weak and extremely sick. She was on so many medications that it was unreal. And they gave her a lot of hope early on that they were going to be able to come up with something that would stop or possibly even reverse the effects a little bit. But they just did. Not just, it continued to progress. She, she lost use of her left side of her body.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Mil and Carolyn had always planned on having kids. But the doctors were clear with her

[Mill Markle]

deterioration, the stress of having a child would possibly progress that deterioration quicker. We made the decision there would be no child. Carolyn at times would say to me, you need to leave me. You wanted a child. And I told her, no, that's not going to happen. I love you, I'm staying with you. That was just kind of the person I am. We had to stay by each other and fight through this, make it happen.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Mill devoted himself to Carolyn. He took a job working ground maintenance at a nearby airport for his wife's health insurance. A job where he'd snow plow runways at 2 in the morning. Their life wasn't all hardship. Carolyn wrote poetry and collected pottery. As they approached middle age, they still took trips when they could, played cards together and loved just sitting and talking. They had each other. But as they were on the cusp of what should have been their golden years, they couldn't deny a growing truth. Carolyn's health was deteriorating.

[Mill Markle]

Early 2019. We had went to the doctor. She says, I've made a decision that I'm not going to have any more treatments and if I get sick, I'm not going to do anything about it. I'm done and I'm just going to let nature take its course. I just didn't think that, you know, I didn't think she was ever going to die. You know, I thought, we'll pull her out no matter what.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Mill felt shock. If Carolyn died, she wouldn't suffer anymore. But if she died, how was he supposed to live?

[Mill Markle]

When I get up in the morning, if I grab one of those, I'm like, okay, coffee with Carolyn this morning. You know, there was always something that we, you know, could share together like that.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

You won't get to have those morning conversations anymore, Right?

[Mill Markle]

Right.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

In the doctor's office, Mill sat frozen, numb. But Carolyn had more to say.

[Mill Markle]

Carolyn said, I want Mill to find someone before I'm gone. And the doctor said to her, well, Carolyn, that is the most unselfish thing I have ever heard in my life. And she started to cry a little bit. And the next words out of Carolyn's mouth were, but I'm going to find her for him. And the doctor said, carolyn, that's the most selfish thing I've ever heard in my life. Did you agree with the doctor? Oh, yeah. I kind of felt like she was going to try to set me up with one of her friends or something, you know, I didn't really take her completely seriously about it. I mean, okay, well, yeah, that's fine. We'll find somebody, you know, But I still wasn't. I wasn't going to pursue it. I wasn't going to push it.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

A few days later, Carolyn called Mil over to help with something on the computer.

[Mill Markle]

So I got the computer out and we sat down. And I'm like, okay, where do you want me to go? And she says, type in outdoor people dating sites. And I'm like, what? I'm like, okay, well, all right. So we did it, and we just sat there and she dictated to me, and I typed out a profile, a dating profile for myself. And she pretty much told me exactly what was gonna be said on it.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Mill decided to humor Carolyn. She had a way of getting what she wanted. So along with referencing his love of the outdoors, he wrote that he was an honest and caring person.

[Mill Markle]

She made it sound like I was better than I thought I was. You know, Carolyn, really. She was putting me out there, I guess.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

And at her urging, nowhere in the about me section did the words wife or married appear.

[Mill Markle]

It was just a dating profile for me. Several people responded to it. I was up front. I just typed in that, you know, before we go anywhere, you know, any further in this, I need to tell you something. I've got to tell you that I'm married. My wife has Ms. And is going to die soon, and she wants me to find someone. There was one that just never responded again after that. The other was like, well, I'm sad for you, but I have enough baggage myself, you know? So I'm like, okay. In a way, it was kind of validating, I guess, to me that, like, see, Carolyn, I told you this isn't something that's going to work, you know, she was so intent on me finding someone prior to her going. It was difficult to do it, but it was also exciting in that someone found me interesting enough to respond. You know, it was invigorating to know that, I guess that life could change at some point. And then one night, I just happened to click on and.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

And there was a message waiting for him, a short one. It simply said, I like your picture.

[Jan Markle]

I think it might have been of him and his dogs hunting. Those are his kids. And you could tell he just loved them. And he was playing with them, and they had. And I was just intrigued and he was the first person that I said anything to, and I didn't expect anything back, but he must have been on there at the same time because it was immediate.

[Mill Markle]

I clicked on her and I'm like, I like your picture, too. Both like football, both like the outdoors. I mean, she's a beautiful woman and, you know, I just. I was attracted to her. So I was like, well, that's a bonus for sure. I started typing with her and stuff, and we got to talking back and forth.

[Jan Markle]

He said, there's something that I have to tell you. And he wrote that he was married and that his wife didn't have very much longer to live, maybe six months. And I was like, what? To be honest with you, what went through my mind was, man, this guy is desperate. He's got to tell that kind of story to get a date. I thought about it for a minute and I just said, you know, I don't date married men.

[Mill Markle]

And I'm like, well, this is the story, and my wife is all in with it. Can I call you and you can talk to her?

[Jan Markle]

I was like, this is crazy.

[Mill Markle]

I called, I talked to her for just a couple of minutes, and then I handed the phone to Carolyn. I had no idea what to think. I thought, well, this is probably it, you know, I mean, she's going to talk to Carolyn and then I'll probably never hear from her again as well.

[Jan Markle]

She said, hi, I'm Carolyn. And she just clarified that this was something that she had wanted for him. And that by no means am I a home wrecker in the sense of the word. That's not what's happening here. And that she would love to meet me. I said, okay.

[Mill Markle]

Carolyn gave me the phone back. We talked, we laughed, like, hmm, weird. And we just set up a date.

[Jan Markle]

I hung up and I'm like, what are you doing? Normally I would have just ran for the hills and said, no, there's old, you know, this just can't happen. This is not something that I want to get involved in. And the emotions and everything else. My ex husband, the father of my boys, ran around, like, with lots of different women. Apparently it was very painful. And I think it, you know, ruined my trust for any future relationships. It's like, oh, no, I would never put another woman through this. It just. It's not right.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

But Jan had to concede that Mil and Carolyn, something about it felt different.

[Jan Markle]

This is a very weird situation, but his wife is truly trying to help him and. And she cares about him, and they must have a Very loving marriage. Otherwise this would not be happening. And that's the kind of love that I want.

[Mill Markle]

We talked pretty much daily and we found out that it seemed like we knew each other already. There were so many things that we had both done and places that we had both been.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

After several weeks of daily phone calls, sometimes they chat for hours. It was time to meet. Jan lived about two hours away in Wyoming. So for their first date, she and Mil decided to split the difference and meet in the middle. Jan stood in front of her bathroom mirror getting ready for her first date with Mil, A man who seemed kind, a man she was drawn to, a man who was still married.

[Jan Markle]

And I was just, why are you doing this? What are you doing? Are you making another bad decision? The whole self esteem issue when you have infidelity in your marriage is I'm not worth it. You just beat yourself up and it. It's hard to get out of that mindset. But I just looked in the mirror and I said, you're worth something good and you're gonna go. And I did.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Mill made sure to say goodbye to Carolyn before he got in the car.

[Mill Markle]

When I told her I was going, she said, okay, well, you know, have fun. I'm not going to ask you about it at all. That was our agreement. I went there and parked and I had butterflies in my stomach just like I was 15 or 16 years old again, and mouth was dry and didn't really know what I was going to say or anything.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Were you worried at all about not being ready to love again?

[Mill Markle]

I don't know. I mean, I love Carolyn still, but it was a different kind of love after, after, you know, the first 15 years of marriage, because it was. There was no intimacy. I mean, I was excited to have the opportunity to maybe fall in love and just to see if I was even. If anybody would even want me. That was, you know, that was my biggest fear was why would anybody want a guy that's got a wife that's dying and can't dedicate all my time to someone new?

[Glenn Washington]

When we return, will Mill's fears get the better of him? Stay tuned.

[Deborah Treisman]

Hi, I'm Deborah Treisman, fiction editor of the New Yorker and host of the New Yorker fiction podcast. On the podcast, I ask a great contemporary writer to select a favorite story from the magazine's almost hundred year archive to read and discuss. Together, we delve into the story, exploring its themes, its style, and what makes fiction work. You can listen to authors like Ottessa Moshfegh talk about why we write story

[Vanessa Woods]

or attaching a story or creating a story. Is this inclination that we all have to stop spinning and you can hear

[Deborah Treisman]

writers like George Saunders discuss the nature

[Mill Markle]

of storytelling on the first read. You accept these things as descriptions and they make you see the scene, but every line is a chance to inflect the reader's mind.

[Deborah Treisman]

You'll discover new favorite authors and read old favorites in new ways. Episodes of the New Yorker Fiction Podcast are released on the 1st of every month. Listen and follow wherever you get your podcasts.

[Glenn Washington]

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[Narrator/Interviewer]

He smoothed out his shirt and walked inside.

[Jan Markle]

He came in the building and looked at me and I'm not kidding you, he looked like he was 10 years old in a candy store. He was so cute. He was all shy and bashful. It was funny. He was dressed in some nice shorts and a nice shirt and. And, you know, he cleans up pretty good.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

They went to a seafood restaurant and stayed for a couple of drinks.

[Jan Markle]

And I remember that they had one of those, like, paper tablecloths where you could color and write stuff on it. I made him. I don't know, we signed it and we wrote, you know, I don't know, stupid new love stuff on the table. And he rolled it up and he took it. He said, I better put it behind the seat because, you know, Carolyn was still. Neither one of us wanted to offend her in any way.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

When you left that night, you kissed her.

[Mill Markle]

I just grabbed her and gave her a big kiss. It felt incredible.

[Jan Markle]

I had never felt anything like that. It was butterflies and flutters and connection and if I screw this up, I'm crazy and stuff like that all at once.

[Mill Markle]

It was extremely strange when I came home from the date because Carolyn says, well, did you kiss her? And I'm like, carolyn, that's not something you need to know. And she says, but I want to know. And I said, carolyn, we're not talking about this, because you are the one that said you weren't going to ask this question. She like, you're right, I did say that, and it's best if we don't. And that was the only time that Carolyn ever asked me and that it was ever brought up. After that,

[Narrator/Interviewer]

they made plans for all of them to meet Mil, his wife Carolyn, and his new girlfriend, Jan, they chose a little Italian restaurant. There was a linguine dish there that Carolyn loved.

[Mill Markle]

We're kind of celebrating, I guess, and we had a bottle of wine. But it just was so hard for Carolyn because she wanted the wine. But I know that it made her not feel very good the next morning. I think she was embarrassed because she had a hard time feeding herself. And I kind of had to help her at the restaurant. It had been a while since we'd been out, but it was good.

[Jan Markle]

It was like I was sitting next to my sister or something. It wasn't like sinking into me that this is this man's wife, even though it is.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Jan and Mil had been dating for three months when Jan finally reached her limit. It happened on an autumn day as she drove behind Mill's car. The highway snaked down into a valley. Snow capped mountains on one side, a river on the other, and the gold of aspen trees all around. And Jan knew things couldn't go on like this anymore. She would have to say something.

[Jan Markle]

And it all just hit me like a ton of bricks. So I called him and I said, can you just please pull over before we get to your house?

[Mill Markle]

And I thought, oh, this is it. This is great. You know, she's changed her mind. I mean, it just. Just gut wrenching. It was just like, oh, my God. I could tell, you know, that there was emotion in. In Jan's voice. I just didn't know what the emotion was. Well, I've got to stop and see. I. I've got to do this, because if this is it, this is it. We pulled off into a parking lot, and when I got out of the car, she jumped out of the car and she just came running toward me.

[Jan Markle]

I hugged him and I said, I love you and I don't want to live without you.

[Mill Markle]

She hoped that we could spend the rest of our lives together. And I'm pretty sure both of us had tears in her eyes at that point.

[Jan Markle]

I was like, you haven't been with anybody else for 30 some years. Are you sure you don't want to date a little bit more? And he's like, no. And I said, you're positive? And he's like, no, I don't want to date anybody else. I decided that I was going to find a job in Craig and find a place to live and move there.

[Mill Markle]

I was going to find love and I was going to be able to have a life different than what I'd been living for the last 30 years and not being so tied to the disease, and it just seems like. I don't know. I really don't know how to explain that. This is getting me very emotional for some reason. I don't know why.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Mills suggested Jan talk to Carolyn about where to find an apartment since she knew the rental market better. But that's when Carolyn surprised Jan. Carolyn

[Jan Markle]

was like, well, you just need to move in here. I was shocked.

[Mill Markle]

I knew that. That Carolyn was thinking the same way I was thinking. But I think I thought it would be better to have Carolyn say it rather than be the one that. That suggest it.

[Jan Markle]

I was like, I don't know. You know, I gotta. I gotta think about this. Are we sleeping in this room that you sleep in? Am I going downstairs? What are we doing? So he just moved into the guest room and had its own bathroom and everything, and that's where we ended up.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

A month after Jan and Mill said their I love yous, they were waking up next to each other in the house they now shared with Mill's wife.

[Mill Markle]

It was strange having her there. It felt like infidelity in that my wife is sleeping in a. The same house but in a different bedroom than my girlfriend and I before.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Jan would walk into her kitchen at her old house, still half asleep for her morning coffee, but now in an unfamiliar kitchen, Carolyn was there.

[Jan Markle]

Oh, gosh, how's this gonna go? Her seeing it for the. You know, for real and pulling out of the situation, thinking that, no, I can't handle this. This can't happen. You know, you need to leave. That would be the worst. She just said, good morning, and we had coffee, and that was it. It went really good.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

They didn't really talk about any rules for their arrangement, and they just sort of naturally avoided public displays of affection around each other.

[Jan Markle]

He just took care of her, and there was really no touching. It was like they were brother and sister or something.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Which helped Jan feel more comfortable with their situation. She was curious about Carolyn and wanted to get to know her better too.

[Jan Markle]

I am total opposite of Carolyn. She liked to read and she liked to write poetry, and I never was like that. I was into sports and anything I could do. She had audiobooks that she liked to listen to, and, you know, some of them were really good. I listened to them with her.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Jan and Carolyn would sit next to each other and take in stories about mysteries and mafiosos.

[Jan Markle]

Oh, she. She was funny. I took her to the grocery store because she liked to go to Safeway, and I lost her. Oh, my Goodness. I'm like, the first time I take her out and about and I lose her. So I'm walking around Safeway trying to find the little flag on her wheelchair. I'm like, have you seen a lady in a wheelchair? Well, she was over in the candy bar aisle because she liked chocolate. I was excited to go home and just see what she was doing and talk to her, and especially if her and Mel were there together. It was fun. Sometimes they fought a lot, so I had to put my foot down.

[Mill Markle]

Frustration with her disease, I think, is what caused a lot of our fighting. And not just her frustration with it. Mine as well.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

I'm sure she was in a lot of pain and had lost almost all control over her body and life.

[Mill Markle]

She would try to do things on her own that she couldn't do, and it usually caused more problems than it was worth. I probably reacted wrong to a lot of them, and I know she reacted wrong to a lot of the times that I. I tried to make it so she couldn't do those things wrong again.

[Jan Markle]

Don't get me wrong. She could be mean.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

For Christmas that year, they all decided to take a trip a few hours away to where Jan's kids lived. They stayed in the hotel, and one night, Jan overheard Carolyn arguing with Mill.

[Jan Markle]

I overheard Carolyn say, I don't want her here anymore. I want her gone. Oh, I was mad. I was mad. I'm like, nuh. You're not gonna. You're not gonna boss me around like that. I'll tell you what I'm gonna do. I said, I'll go. That's not a problem. But I'm gonna continue to date Mill because I love him. You love him, but I love him too. And we started this, and I'm not ending it, but I will leave your house. And so then we went to sleep. We went down to breakfast the next morning, and she said, jan, I really don't want you to leave. It's just my way of controlling Mill. I said, well, stop it, because it's not nice. And that was really the only time that we had words. It wasn't all roses, but it was mostly roses.

[Mill Markle]

We all three did things together.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

One day, they all went together to the park.

[Mill Markle]

We ran into an old friend of mine. He was just, you know, okay, Carolyn, are you gonna introduce me to Mill's girlfriend, or does he have to, you know? And just. She's laughing and she says, yeah, this is Jan. Really neat day. It just made me feel good that I had both of them in my life. Carolyn knew that she had fulfilled her wish and doing what she wanted to get done. She was pretty much bedridden. The doctor come once a week and check her. And I knew things were getting really close, and I just took the time off, and I just was spending the time with Carolyn. And Jan was still working, and her fever spiked hugely. And so we'd given her some liquid Tylenol, and it probably wasn't two hours after the hospice nurse had left that she had passed away. And I was right there, and I, you know, just closed her eyes and gave her a kiss on the forehead and told her goodbye. And they came and took her, and I really broke down.

[Jan Markle]

She was my. My best friend at that time. I. You know, I don't know. Everybody lost something, but Mill lost his spouse. You know, the coroner hadn't got there yet, but I just leaned down and hugged her, and I whispered in her ear, I'll take care of him. Thank you.

[Mill Markle]

I fell in love with Jan fast, and I was ready to move forward with her, but I also didn't want to see Carolyn go.

[Jan Markle]

The thing that I hated about this so much, and the guilt. Here's the guilt. Someone has to die for my life to move on. And that, to me, was devastating. It just hurt to the core. But it is what it is. And Mel's like, she wanted this. And I said, that's what I got to keep telling myself. They were incredible together, and we're incredible together.

[Mill Markle]

We love each other, and I'm able to live and enjoy and love. And I still feel a little guilt at times, but for the most part, I think that Carolyn would be extremely happy with how things turned out.

[Jan Markle]

We still have her ashes. They're here. And I feel her every now. And, you know. You know, I don't know if you believe in that stuff, but I do.

[Mill Markle]

We came across Carolyn's wedding dress, and it was, you know, in a. In a box and vacuum sealed. And Jan's like, well, we can't just throw this away. And she's like, I've got an idea. And I'm like, okay, what's your idea? And she says, we need to find a seamstress. So we had taken Carolyn's wedding dress and turned it into the flower girl dresses for our wedding.

[Jan Markle]

I thank God every day for him and her, and I loved her and I always will. That's it.

[Glenn Washington]

Big, big thanks to Mill and to Jan Markle for sitting down with SNAP and opening up their hearts and this story. Lots of love from the entire SNAP team. This piece was edited by Anna Sussman. The original score is by Renzo Gorio and was produced by Regina Bediaco. Now, after the break, a rivalry full of heart, full of love. Stay tuned.

[Mill Markle]

Hi, I'm Alex Goldman. You may know me as the host of Reply all, but I'm done with that.

[Glenn Washington]

I'm doing something else now.

[Mill Markle]

I've started a new podcast called Hyperfixed. On every episode of Hyperfixed, listeners write in with their problems and I try to solve them. Some massive and life altering and some so miniscule it'll boggle your mind. No matter the problem, no matter the size, I'm here for you. That's Hyperfixed, the new podcast from Radiotopia. Find it wherever you listen to podcasts [e-mail].

[Glenn Washington]

Three days ago, I'm walking down the street. I'm minding my own business. This dude walking toward me looks up from his phone, looks at me and he says, whoa, nice jacket. And guys, we don't do this. We don't to strangers, please. But if you saw this quince leather jacket I'm sporting, you might be moved to say the same thing. Because quints is all about elevated essentials that feel effortless. Designed for layering, for mixing, each piece helps build a wardrobe made to last. Versatile silhouettes, thoughtful details, the kind of style you want to wear again and again. Watch someone stop you on the street. Refresh your wardrobe with quints. Go to quince.com snap for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U I N C E.com snap to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com snap all right, lovers want to make a real impression? Skip the reservations, plan the evening you want and serve your sweetie. Surf and turf made with quality. No antibiotics ever stakes or sustainable wild caught seafood or whatever your heart desires from Whole Foods Market. Make the night special with a bottle of bubbly. And the pro tip is they even have the Whole Foods Market floral department right there. Play a cook now so I can get cooking later. Taste the love all month at Whole Foods Market. Welcome back to SNAP Judgment. I'm news from Washington. Now then, for our next story, after a whirlwind romance, Brian and Vanessa, they get married and move to Kinshasa. Everything is going well until she shows up.

[Vanessa Woods]

Brian and I had just gotten engaged and it was a total whirlwind romance. I mean, we spent a ton of time on the phone and we'd Sent about a thousand emails. But the actual time face to face that we spent before we decided to get married was about three weeks I quit my job and went to work with him. And, you know, it was while we were working together one day that she showed up. She was totally beautiful. I mean, she had this long dark hair and these almond shaped eyes and she just knew what she was doing as well. I mean, she would kind of like bat her eyelashes. Had these ridiculously long eyelashes. She would like bat them. And when she saw him, they just had this moment where like time stopped. They were just looking at each other and then she kind of like sashayed past him in this little way that she had. And I mean, from the second Brian, I just knew he was gone. I would sort of, you know, walk up and interrupt them kind of like giggling together and, you know, their heads kind of really close and he would like whisper little secrets to her. It was all just nauseating. They called her Maleux, which is short for Marie Louise. And they said that she was the international model because she'd just come from Paris. She was found in someone's hand luggage going through the X ray machine at the Charles de Gaulle airport. There is a thriving international black market for great apes, and Malou was a bonobo. Bonobos are an endangered species and there's probably, you know, not enough left in the wild to fill a football stadium. Malu's mother was killed and she was probably taken from her dead body and sold on this black market to be destined to be somebody's pet.

[Jan Markle]

No, no, that was a real one.

[Vanessa Woods]

Brian and I were working at Loli, a bonobo, the world's only bonobo sanctuary. It's in this beautiful forest in the middle of Kinshasa in the Congo. We were studying our closest living relatives, which is chimpanzees and bonobos, trying to find out what it is to be human. Both humans and chimpanzees, we're male dominated. We kill each other. And bonobos, who are so similar to us, they don't kill each other. And they're the only great ape that doesn't kill each other. When bonobos fall in love with you, it's a very specific experience. It's not like the relationship you have with like a cat or a dog.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

It's.

[Vanessa Woods]

And not like chimpanzees. I mean, chimpanzees, they'll just love anyone. But bonobos choose you. Like they choose one person, and when they do, it's like a laser beam. So when you turn up it's like you're all they can see and you're the most important person in their world. I had fallen in love with bonobos a ton of times before. I mean, you know, Brian was always laughing at me. Like, he was always kind of scared, scornful, because he was the scientist. Like he was a real researcher and he loves all apes for their minds. He wasn't going to sort of get sucked into this kind of like, you know, ape hugging type relationship. But then when Malou chose him, he was just helpless. Malu was with all the other infant bonobos. Malu was only five or so and they hung out all day in this sort of beautiful forest. And so Brian would go up there and he'd squeeze past this sort of little rocky crevice and have to run past the killer bees and hope they didn't wake up. And, you know, there she would be just kind of, you know, lounging round in the leaves or, you know, eating a mango. And she would see him and her whole face would just light up. But as for me, I was the other woman and she knew it. So she would kind of, you know, squint her eyes at me and give me dirty looks and, you know, Brian didn't see any of it. We used to eat breakfast outside on the porch. And there was this one morning where Malou must have been watching us because as soon as Brian went inside to get something or go to the bathroom, she ran down and just knocked over my tea, stole my toast and then ran off. And then later on when I went to go up to the nursery, like all my friends were there, the mamas. They were these amazing women who took care of these baby bonobos. And I would be sitting with them and Malou would just launch herself and just kick me in the head. And the mamas would just think it was hilarious. They would go, vanill, Malute. I mean, she hates you. Then they're like, she'd come running from Kinshasa to kick you in the head. I used to see Brian play this game with her where he threw her up into the air as high as he could. And I mean, he used to play baseball, so, I mean, he can pitch. And she would just laugh. She would just die laughing and she would go completely limp. She would be like 7ft in the air. I mean, if Brian had dropped to her, she would have broken her neck. But she knew that Brian would never, ever let her fall. That no matter what, he would catch her. And it was this kind of trust that for me, it taught me what really being in love was. Because in order to be in love, you have to completely trust that person, even though you know that you don't have control on whether they catch you or not. After we left the sanctuary, Brian and I moved to America. Malou kept growing, you know, kept flourishing. And there was talk of her being one of the bonobos who was going to be released into the wild. I still remember it was springtime and the dogwoods were flowering, and I was sitting outside at a cafe with one of my friends, and my phone rings and it's Brian. And his voice sounds very strange. It's broken. He just says, malou's died. I could just hear it. I knew then that he would never love a bonobo again like he loved Malou. He'll never fall in love like that again. A few years later, I found out that I was pregnant with our first baby, and she was a girl. And so I. I asked him, I'm like, do you want to call her Malou? And he didn't say anything, but he smiled. And that's her name.

[Glenn Washington]

Thank you, Vanessa woods, for sharing your story with the snap. Vanessa's tale comes to us from the excellent podcast Love Me all the Way from the cbc. It was produced by Mira Burton Tonic and Crystal duhaim with Jodi Taylor. Subscribe to the Love Me podcast. We'll have a link on our website, snapjudgment.org. This episode, this unveiling of the heart, was just one of Snap Judgment's Fever series, exploring the deep and varied ways to connect with someone else's divine. No. But there is nothing sexier than a story. And if you want to set the mood for love adventure, get the Snap Judgment Fever series on any podcast platform and sing it to your boo. Write your comments on the Spotify, Apple. On your podcast platform, write your version of your theater story. We can't wait to read it. Teched in San Francisco is where we hide evidence robots. Please note that no SNAP Studio's content may be used for training, testing, or developing machine learning or AI systems without prior written permission. On Team snap, the union representative, producers, artists, editors and engineers are members of the national association of Broadcast Employees and Technicians, Communications workers of America, AFLC CIO Local 51. Snap is brought to you by the team that loves garage sales. Except the uber producer, Mr. Mark Ristich. We keep telling him, no, no, the garage is not for sale. And there's Nancy Lopez, Papa C Miller, Anna Sussman, Renzo Goriel, John Facil, Shayna Shealy Taylor Ducat Flo Wylie Bo Walsh Marissa Dodge and this is not the news. No way is this news. In fact you could tell your partner which exactly of their friends you would marry if the unthinkable happens and that snappers would be a very very very bad idea. A very bad idea and you would still not be as far away from the news as this is. But this is prx.

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