← Snap Judgment
Snap Judgment
Spoon & Rusty Nail
00:33:10
It was all they had. A spoon and a rusty nail. But for the young Uyghur men trapped in a cell, it meant… escape.
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- [00:03]
Glenn Washington
SNAP Studios.
- [00:07]
Teresa Katsuralis
There's an environmental crisis out there that could change the way we grow food and how we eat.
- [00:12]
Glenn Washington
They said if we don't save the pollinators, things will get ugly pretty quick.
- [00:16]
Teresa Katsuralis
Welcome to the World of Buzzkill, a new podcast from the Food and Environment Reporting Network where we take on the pollinator crisis, what it is, why it matters, and what we can do about it. I'm your host Teresa Katsuralis. Join me as we tell the stories of people working to protect pol and biodiversity. Buzzkill is available wherever you get your podcasts.
- [00:37]
Glenn Washington
Snap Judgment is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies. Try it@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary, not available and in all states if you love iPhone, you'll love Apple Card. It comes with the privacy and security you expect from Apple. Plus you earn up to 3% daily cash back on every purchase, which can automatically earn interest when you open a High Yield Savings account through Apple Card. Apply for Apple Card in the Wallet app subject to credit approval. Savings is available to Apple Card owners subject to eligibility. Apple Card and Savings by Goldman Sachs Bank USA's Salt Lake City Branch, Mexico Member FDIC terms and more@applecard.com I am the older brother, Whereas older kids everywhere like to say I was the boss. So when I decided I had to leave the wacky religious cult we were raised in in my late teens, after the smoke cleared, my brother abandoned the cult as well. Later I started school at Grand Valley State University. My brother immediately enrolled at Grand Valley State University. There I stumbled across an incredible program that sent me to rural Japan for a year, all expenses paid. A little while later my brother attended the same program right after I did. Later I decided I wanted to live and work in Asia for a few years. My brother reached the exact same conclusion for himself and after a while I planned to return back to the States. But this time my brother decided no, no. Instead he was gonna move from rural Japan to big city Tokyo. Neon lights, fancy people, nightlife. I hugged him, wished him good luck before flying back alone on the jet plane. This is why I wasn't there when he had a mental breakdown on the streets of a foreign city. A city he didn't know that didn't know him. This is why I never knew he had been locked up for ranting wild eyed on the street. And this is why his new friends didn't know to get in touch with me. And when I considered what he was doing there in the first place, thousands of miles from home, thousands of miles from help, after everything that happened, I can't but wonder if I was a good brother to my brother. Because in the end, like all little brothers, he followed me. Today, in Snap Judgment, another brother story of a sort. We proudly present the Spoon and Rusty Nail. My name is Glenn Washington. I thought I was my brother's keeper when you're listening to Snap Judgment, Today's episode is sponsored by Acorns. Acorns makes it easy to start automatically saving and investing so your money has a chance. Chance to grow for you, your kids and your retirement. You don't need to be an expert. Acorns will recommend a diversified portfolio that fits you and your money goals. You don't need to be rich. Acorns lets you invest with the spare money you've got right now. You can start with $5 or even just your spare change. You don't need a ton of time. You can create your Acorns account and start investing in just five minutes. Basically, Acorns does the hard part so it can give your money a chance to grow. For me, Acorns has helped me put part of my future planning on AutoPilot. Head to acorns.com snap or download the Acorns app to start saving and investing for your future today. Paid client Endorsement compensation provides incentive to positively promote Acorns Tier 1 compensation provided investing involves risk. Acorns Advisors LLC and SEC registered investment advisor. View important disclosures@acorns.com snap welcome back to Snap Judgment. We begin in the middle of the 2010s when China began rounding up hundreds of thousands of people, possibly a million or more Uyghurs, members of an ethnic Muslim minority, flagging them as potential terrorists and sending them to massive detention centers. We know this mostly from brave people who made it out to tell the tale. But even attempting to escape can land you in a much worse position than you started. And today on our show, one young man tries anyway. Isabel Cockrell from Coda's Story has a tail. Snap judgment.
- [06:50]
Teresa Katsuralis
When Hashim was 16 years old and living in Xinjiang, China, his favorite TV show was a Turkish telenovela that he watched with his mom.
- [07:00]
Hashim
I mean, I knew it was just a TV show, but I started to wonder whether I might be able to live like them too.
- [07:09]
Teresa Katsuralis
The show was called Adon Ali. It was about a police officer turned vigilante who takes down corrupt cops.
- [07:24]
Hashim
He Helps people who are being unfairly persecuted by the police. And at the very end, he exposes this big villain among the police. It kind of impacted me.
- [07:38]
Teresa Katsuralis
The soap felt worlds away from Hashim's daily life in northwest China. This was 2014, and all over Hashim's hometown, police checkpoints were springing out of nowhere.
- [07:53]
Hashim
The police would check your id, ask where you've been and what you had been up to, and just make you feel really uncomfortable. It was painful. You just never felt at ease even in your own neighborhood.
- [08:12]
Teresa Katsuralis
Hashem's friends were starting to disappear after the police raided his boxing gym. Hashem began to worry about his mother.
- [08:22]
Hashim
As a young man, I was a target. They were starting to arrest us more. I realized I was becoming a burden for her just by being there. So I decided that I should leave. I wanted a full life, not this half life.
- [08:46]
Teresa Katsuralis
He felt there was no other way but to get out of China. The Chinese government doesn't allow most Uyghurs to travel or have passports. So that left Hashim with only one choice. He packed up a few things, said nothing to his mother.
- [09:06]
Hashim
I knew that if I told her about my plans, she would tell me not to go. So I didn't tell her, thinking once I was gone, then she could hear about it.
- [09:20]
Teresa Katsuralis
He traveled to a border town near Vietnam, where he contacted a group of human smugglers.
- [09:28]
Hashim
You know, like a Toyota. Those normally carry five or six people at most, but the smugglers will manage to squeeze 15 people inside. They will pack everyone in and drive extremely fast. At one point, I was sitting in the front seat next to the driver, and I watched his speedometer, which never dipped below 60 miles an hour.
- [09:49]
Teresa Katsuralis
The car bounced along twisty dirt roads, navigating steep drops and treacherous passes through the jungle.
- [09:59]
Hashim
You had this feeling that no one had ever passed through this place before, as if you're the first person in the world to go through here in the car.
- [10:08]
Teresa Katsuralis
Hashim was taking an infamous route that traffics goods and people through Vietnam, then Cambodia, Thailand, and onto Malaysia.
- [10:17]
Hashim
They call it the smugglers road. I never heard anyone call it anything else. It works like a relay system. Smugglers in one country hand you to the smugglers in the next country.
- [10:29]
Teresa Katsuralis
They'd nearly made it through Thailand, but when they reached the border with Malaysia, the car suddenly stopped. Hashim and his fellow passengers stepped out into a clearing in the jungle, already full of people. Men, women, children.
- [10:47]
Hashim
There were 73 of us, young and old, and we decided to surrender ourselves to the police.
- [10:53]
Teresa Katsuralis
There's this big Rumor flying around that if you handed yourself into the Thai police, they'd send you straight on to Turkey.
- [11:02]
Hashim
We were ready to believe anything, so we voluntarily handed ourselves over, believing they will send us to Turkey in a few weeks.
- [11:12]
Teresa Katsuralis
They're quickly arrested. The women and children are taken one way. Hashim and the other men are taken to a detention center.
- [11:22]
Hashim
I mean, at that moment we were convinced it was just going to be only 15 days there. But 15 days passed and nothing happened. Then one month and we began thinking, this plan is not working out.
- [11:42]
Teresa Katsuralis
Hashim is living in a small, narrow cell with a dozen other guys. They're all crammed in on top of each other, monitored by cameras 24, 7. One of them, a man named Muhammad, was on the car journey with him.
- [11:57]
Hashim
Muhammad was older than me and he tried to lift my spirits. If he saw that I was feeling low, he would say, hanging there. And whenever he did that, it felt like a weight lifting off my shoulders.
- [12:14]
Teresa Katsuralis
Mohammed had fled with his wife and children, and he and Hashim bond over being apart from their families.
- [12:22]
Hashim
I was in a pretty bad place mentally after running away from my parents. He consoled me and made me feel better. He said, my little brother, now that we've met each other, let's just be like family with one another. As we began to realize that we were stuck there and no one could really help us, we kind of settled into the routine of prison life. We spent our time reading, eating the meals they brought us, chatting and studying the Quran. But we also worried, will they send us back to China? So our days were spent in uncertainty. There was no daylight in our cell and our arms and legs will become stiff. So we would walk for an hour or two. We would walk in circles, like if there were people sleeping on the edge of the cell, then the middle would be empty. To walk up and down. My thoughts keep just running over the same idea. Is this my life now? Will it soon feel like I never even had a life on the outside? I wondered if I would ever get out of there. Ever get to walk on the road outside the prison? That was the main feeling, eating away at. When they brought us food each day it came in these plastic bags. We wouldn't throw them out though. Instead we would stress this bag out and make a makeshift rope. There was this little see through vent at the top of the sail where you could catch a glimpse of the outside world. We would tie the rope to the steel grill of the vent, climb up and dangle from the top of the sail so we could breathe in the fresh air, and as we looked outside, we could see that Thailand looked like paradise. It was totally green, like it was summer all year round. And the landscape was so beautiful. It had been so long since we'd seen anything that green. We would gaze out day and night. After seeing all that green, our desire to go outside became unbearable. It gradually dawned on us that we were not going to get out, at least not without Allah's help.
- [15:33]
Glenn Washington
When SNAP returns, Hashim and his cellmates take the only way out there is. Stay tuned. Welcome back to Snap Judgment. The last we left Hashem, he and a dozen other Uyghur cellmates were languishing in a Thai jail cell. Almost a year had passed.
- [16:19]
Hashim
If we didn't make a run for it, there will be no other way to save ourselves. It was the only thing on our mind. Escaping became our main priority.
- [16:33]
Teresa Katsuralis
Hashim tries to talk to Mohammed, his spiritual big brother, who he'd met at the beginning of his journey, whose wife and kids were also in Thailand, trapped in a different jail.
- [16:44]
Hashim
So I told him, big brother, I want to run away. What do you think? He told me to go ahead, to do it. But since he had his own family, he couldn't think about escaping himself.
- [16:58]
Teresa Katsuralis
Hashim and the other guys are determined, and they don't have to wait long for their opportunity because there is already a hole in the roof of their cell.
- [17:07]
Hashim
Yeah, it was in the ceiling of the restroom.
- [17:10]
Teresa Katsuralis
They notice water dripping from the ceiling. And there, above the toilet, a small hole. It had apparently been made by prisoners who'd been in the cell before.
- [17:22]
Hashim
It was still open, but it wasn't possible for a person to fit through there. So we made it a little wider and easier to get through.
- [17:30]
Teresa Katsuralis
The plan is to use just their hands and carefully scrape away the crumbling cement. They weave together a long rope with plastic bags and clothes and move quickly.
- [17:41]
Hashim
Our cell was on the second floor. Using the ropes, we climb down. Well, when the first guy went down the side of the building, one of the officers saw him. They came straight to our cell to investigate.
- [18:01]
Teresa Katsuralis
The very first person out manages miraculously to get away. But a few of Hashim's cellmates are beaten by the guards. And they find the hole.
- [18:11]
Hashim
Yes, they transferred us to a new building in order to repair the ceiling.
- [18:15]
Teresa Katsuralis
This new detention center is even more remote, surrounded by mountains and jungle. But it is closer to Malaysia, just a mile from the border. Malaysia has always been Hashim's goal. From there, he can get safe passage to Turkey.
- [18:32]
Hashim
The cars started threatening that they would Send us back to China. Every time they said China, we felt dread.
- [18:43]
Teresa Katsuralis
Security seems lower here. Hashim realizes that if they're going to mount another escape attempt, this is the place and it needs to happen now.
- [18:54]
Hashim
The thing about Thailand is because it's so hot, the walls are very thin. One day, one of the guys found an old nail in the cell about 10 centimeters long. He scratched the wall a little with that nail and realized how soft the cement was.
- [19:14]
Teresa Katsuralis
There's a sort of ringleader among the Uyghurs, a young guy nicknamed Imam because he leads their prayer sessions.
- [19:22]
Hashim
The imam saw how easily the wall crumbled. He scratched it a few more times, and the wall just started coming away. And so he thought, maybe we could make a hole in the wall.
- [19:39]
Teresa Katsuralis
There are cameras dotted around the cell, but no camera is watching the bathroom area.
- [19:46]
Hashim
With the imam, we start brainstorming. Like, if we gouge the hole from the side of a restaurant, would that work? Could we make it work? After we found a nail, we also managed to keep back a spoon from mealtimes. They gave us toothbrushes in there. So we took three toothbrushes and bound them firmly to the nail with string, with the nail tip stuck out so that we could use it to dig. As for the spoon, the useful part was actually the handle, like the end of it. That prison had a brick floor, so we sharpened the spoon handle, using the ground to make a sort of blade to carve the wall one by one. We slip into the bathroom and start scraping at the wall. So we begin by carving a kind of outline, making a hole wide enough for one person. We duck from the inside, chipping away. And then we take a quick shower and come out, trying not to raise any suspicion.
- [20:56]
Teresa Katsuralis
This escape attempt will be much more methodical, deliberate, and this time, Mohammed, who didn't want to join in the last escape, he's in, too. He had recently learned that his wife and kids had been released and were safely in Turkey.
- [21:12]
Hashim
By that time, we'd all decided that it was time to escape.
- [21:17]
Teresa Katsuralis
It takes Hashim and his cellmates three days to make the hole big enough.
- [21:22]
Hashim
By the end of all those hours, my hands were all cut up and scarred.
- [21:27]
Teresa Katsuralis
Then a difficult decision. Who should climb out first.
- [21:34]
Hashim
There were 12 of us. Of the 12, there was an imam, and then there was a man who was much older than the rest of us. We felt that those two should have priority, along with another older guy who had fallen over in the restroom and hurt his knee. It was agreed those three would get out first. That Left nine of us. We drew lots by writing numbers on piece of paper. Whichever number we drew, that will be our turn to get out. We put the papers in the pile in the middle, turned them over and drew them out one by one to see what number we had. Mine was number four. My heart started pounding like crazy. I would be one of the first to go out. 1, 2, 3, and then my turn. I couldn't shake off the anxiety, knowing that the police would brutally beat up anyone who tried to escape again. Another part of me was happy that I got number four, but my brother Muhammad got 11 or 12. 11, I think it was.
- [22:55]
Teresa Katsuralis
After all they had been through together. Muhammad has become so important to Hashim. He doesn't want to do this without him.
- [23:04]
Hashim
Before drawing lots, Mohammed and I agree. We would stay together as we ran through the jungle. We had talked about that. But after pulling lots, we knew that would be impossible.
- [23:20]
Teresa Katsuralis
They would run early the next morning before the sun came up.
- [23:24]
Hashim
It was impossible to sleep that evening. I was so anxious, wondering if the police would catch us and if they did, how they would punish us? Would they beat us? I try to plan for every possible scenario, thinking, if this happens, I'll run that way. If I can just get past this bit, I'll be able to do that. And so on. We got up according to our lot numbers. So number one woke up first, then number two and so on.
- [23:57]
Teresa Katsuralis
They had gouged the wall out, except for the very last thin layer of plaster, so that from the outside the wall looked intact. Carefully, quietly, they push away this last thin layer and the outside air rushes in.
- [24:15]
Hashim
Two or three people stood ready to help me through when I entered a hole.
- [24:20]
Teresa Katsuralis
There's barbed wire right beneath them. They throw blankets over it so they won't get cut up. Then, using a makeshift rope, Hashim pulls himself down the side of the building and jumps into the yard after me.
- [24:33]
Hashim
The guys kept coming, one after another. After three or four minutes, most of us were out of the hole. The thing about this detention center is that it's kind of half constructed. They hadn't even finished building the surveillance tower. There was a gate, but they had left that unlocked. Once five or six of us got out, we all ran out of the compound. Then we crossed to the other side of the road and scattered.
- [25:11]
Teresa Katsuralis
Mohammed isn't with him, but Hashim doesn't have time to look for him. The guards are chasing them now. A few of the Uyghur guys are a bit too noisy. Hashim runs into the jungle towards Malaysia.
- [25:23]
Hashim
Formal OFFICIALS we go deep into the jungle, and after a while, nine of us manage to find each other.
- [25:29]
Teresa Katsuralis
Mohammed isn't among them.
- [25:32]
Hashim
We quickly realize we can't move with a group this size. So two go one way and three of us, me and two other guys go the other, and the group of four go in the third direction. We walk and we walk and it starts to rain very hard. We continue pushing forward through the rain until we were pretty far away from the prison. We're making progress. It had been around 2 or 3 in the morning when we escaped. And as we walk through the jungle, the sun starts to rise. Since it would be so dangerous to move in the sunlight, we quickly gather up some grass and branches and go to sleep.
- [26:26]
Teresa Katsuralis
They lay low all the next day until dusk.
- [26:31]
Hashim
That jungle was so muddy and we had no shoes, so we would get all kinds of splinters in our feet. And there was this particularly spiny plant which would just cut us. Our feet were all ripped up and raw.
- [26:48]
Teresa Katsuralis
It's only a mile to Malaysia. True, but through a jungle and over a mountain range with no maps, no compass, and all Hashim has to survive on are a couple of biscuits and dates he'd stashed from the prison.
- [27:06]
Hashim
We ate one date in the morning, one at noon and one in the evening. It was always raining in the jungle, so we were able to drink the rain water. We slept during the days, keeping still, and then would get going again after dark. One night, the police either heard us or someone told them our whereabouts. Little by little, torch beams and lights appear through the trees. Dog's BARKS GETS LOUDER I can hear them around me. Those barks are definitely loud.
- [27:43]
Teresa Katsuralis
Hashim and his two friends scramble up the side of the mountain.
- [27:47]
Hashim
I'm consumed with panic and fear. We manage to climb up higher, and then the sun begins to rise and we just lie down on the jungle floor and stay as quiet and still as we can. With the police all around us, we think only Allah can help us now. We're totally consumed by fear. What if they caught us? What would we even say if they did?
- [28:21]
Teresa Katsuralis
Slowly, finally, the voices of the police and the dogs barking fade away.
- [28:27]
Hashim
We were sure we'd get arrested there. It's basically a miracle we got through that night.
- [28:37]
Teresa Katsuralis
Five days. That's how long they spend in the jungle before reaching the border. Once they get there, they see a high barbed wire fence, but they'll have to jump.
- [28:47]
Hashim
As we jump the fence into Malaysia, one of my friends was caught by the barbed wire and he got stuck. We couldn't see him because it was dark. So we left him behind. After crossing the border, our mood lifted, all the tiredness draining out of our bodies.
- [29:18]
Teresa Katsuralis
Hashim lives in Istanbul now. I think when we met last time, you were thinking about getting married. And I wondered, what's going on in your life right now.
- [29:33]
Hashim
Yes, I did get married. I had a kid. I am very happy now. I was alone before. Now there are three of us.
- [29:43]
Teresa Katsuralis
So how's Mohammed Hashim? Have you spoken to him recently? When Hashim was in Malaysia, he saw a Thai news story detailing their escape, announcing how many had made it, how many were still being held captive.
- [30:05]
Hashim
That's when I learned that my brother Mohammed didn't make it.
- [30:13]
Teresa Katsuralis
So Hashim reached out to a group of Rohingyas at the Thai detention center who he knew had a contraband cell phone, and they shared their phone with Mohammad.
- [30:24]
Hashim
After I got married, he'd ask me, how's your family doing? How are your finances? What are you up to right now? We talk regularly as if everything was fine.
- [30:39]
Teresa Katsuralis
Hashim learned that during the escape, as the guards were storming the cell, Mohammed was still inside. He had wanted to say a prayer before jumping out of the hole.
- [30:51]
Hashim
He was praying even though he had only two or three minutes to escape. He could have just not prayed. He must not have heard everyone was escaping. But he should have escaped. Even if he had to cut his prayer in half, he should have just got out. I felt great sorrow when I heard he couldn't make it.
- [31:19]
Teresa Katsuralis
After they first reconnected, Muhammad developed a problem in his stomach. The details are unclear.
- [31:28]
Hashim
I don't have all the details, but this is what I heard from others. He himself never said he was sick. He never talked about that. That brother of mine has passed away. He died in Thailand. In prison. The one thing that comforted our hearts was hearing about Islamic history. Muhammad Akka would teach us about that, telling us how our ancestors endured all kinds of hardships. He would say, be patient. This is just how this road is for us.
- [32:21]
Glenn Washington
Hashem was one of 20 Uyghurs who tried to break out. He's one of 11 who made it. According to the Uyghur Rights Advocacy Project, at the time of this recording, 48 are still being held in Thailand.
- [32:38]
Hashim
All I feel I can do is pray for them. But whenever I think of them, my heart breaks. Because we all slept so close together for three years. It bonded us and we became such close friends. We had all left our parents, our relatives, our friends, our real brothers. And even though we start out as strangers. We all became brothers.
- [33:16]
Glenn Washington
Thank you Hashem for sharing your story with us. This episode was reported in partnership with Coda's Story. English translation for Hashim was provided by Ezra and I'd love to give proper credit and laud the Uyghur translators who helped us create this story, but they asked us to never use their names in order to protect their families. Original score was by Renzo Gorio. It was reported by Isabel Cockerell of Coda Story produced by Isabel Cockerell and John Facil. If you missed even a moment, know an entire world of SNAP storytelling awaits. In fact, we recently dropped a brand new series diving into the world of incarcerated women firefighters battling the flames in California. Hosted by her own Ana Sussman. It's called Fire Escape on podcast platforms everywhere. Right now, KQD in San Francisco is snap's orbiting Call of Justice. SNAP is brought to you by the team that always finds a way out of no way. Except of course for the uber producer, Mr. Mark Ristich. He likes to put stuff in the way. Now there's Nancy Lopez, Pat Mercede, Miller, Anna Sussman, Renzo Gorio, John Facile, Shayna Shealy, Taylor Cott, Flo Wiley, Bo Walsh, Marissa Dodge, David Exime, Regina Periaco. At least it's not the news. No way, says the newsman. In fact, you could discover that for the want of a single rusty nail, the shoe was lost. For the want of a shoe, the horse was lost. For the want of the horse, the rider was lost. For the want of a rider, the battle was lost. For the want of the battle, the entire kingdom perished. All of this in front of your eyes while you sit there refusing to even lift a finger. And you would still not be as far away from the news as this is. But this is PRX.