The Christmas Tree Mafia - Snap Classic

Summary

Snap Judgment: "The Christmas Tree Mafia – Snap Classic" (Dec 25, 2025)

Episode Overview

In this cinematic and musically charged episode, Snap Judgment unpacks the hidden, gritty world behind the glimmering façade of New York City’s Christmas tree business. Through the eyes of Scott Lechner and his crew, listeners get a rare glimpse of the turf wars, organized crime, and impromptu morality plays that prop up the city’s most exclusive tree stands. It’s a tale of ambition, mafia dealings, holiday magic, and hard choices—told with humor, nostalgia, and a sharp New York edge.

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Main Story: The Rise and Reign of the "Pontiff of Soho"

1. The New York Christmas Tree Tradition

• Host Glynn Washington sets the scene by sharing his own family’s chaotic journey to buy a real tree, highlighting the sentimental and sensory importance of this tradition.
• Families shell out “enormous sums of money in cash,” never card, to burly tree vendors.
• Washington calls the hustle and bustle a "Christmas miracle":

  “Where once stood just a piece of wood, now a glorious bejeweled tree emerges, more magnificent than ever.” (04:00)

2. Meet Scott Lechner: From Wise Guy to Tree Tycoon

• We’re introduced to Scott Lechner, the short, hard-boiled manager of Soho Trees, NYC “Pontiff of Soho.” (06:22)
• His stand is legendary for its extravagance—celebrities buy trees for up to $6,500.
• "We're talking Trees. It’s Christmas. We're talking trees. Look at my baby." – Scott (06:22)

3. Backstory: Mob Taxes and Turf Wars

• In Brooklyn in the 1980s, Scott got his start selling trees outside a bowling alley, paying a mafia “tax” for protection—like many local businesses.
  • "We paid the mafia tax. The capo rumored to control the Christmas tree industry was nicknamed ‘Piney.’" (08:28)
• Scott teams up with “Little Scott,” the muscle to his brains.
• The business is cutthroat; night guards fight off thieves and even sabotage (like trees sprayed with urine to ruin their scent—10:30).

Notable Quote:

“It’s a cutthroat business. You gotta make all your money in a very small window.” – Little Scott (10:03)

4. Clashes and Escalations

• Scott and crew expand fiercely, provoking turf wars—even against a stand run by an out-of-town Missouri sheriff.
• The sheriff goes berserk, ramming his truck through the lot and threatening violence (13:05):

  “I’m going to get you out of here. I’m going to rip you into pieces with my bare hands.” – Missouri Sheriff (13:05)

• Scott calls in the mafia for help:

  “I instructed some people to let them know they had to leave town tonight; that tomorrow wouldn’t be accepted. And if they were in town by tomorrow night, nobody would find them.” – Scott (14:24)

5. Deeper Ties: Working for the Mob

• The mafia “helps” him but expects favors in return—Scott’s recruited as a casino pit boss in the off-season.
• He’s tested for loyalty, aware that “in their lexicon, that means I’m an earner.” – Scott (15:28)
• As Manhattan real estate booms in the ‘90s, Scott sees his chance and moves uptown:

  “He saw the opportunity to be this big shot he always wanted to be.” (16:50)

6. Building a Team, Building an Empire

• Scott recruits a motley crew: mountain climbers, actors, travelers—and the “crazy” ones always come back (“Except vegans. I hated hiring vegans.” – Little Scott, 18:51).
• He inspires workers with a classic speech:

  “We’re New York City tree men. We don’t get cold. We have this tradition to hold up for the city.” – Scott, via Russ (19:01)

• Together, they transform ordinary city corners into winter wonderlands.

7. From Mobsters to Mariah Carey: Growing the Business

• The business flourishes, growing to 15 locations across four boroughs.
• "This Christmas tree industry in New York, it's a half a billion dollar industry—all in only a couple months." (20:54)
• The clientele shifts from mobsters to celebrities—Mariah Carey, Bradley Cooper, Kelly Ripa.
• Scott’s premium approach changes the market:

  “Scott was literally the first person probably in the world to get more than $100 for a Christmas tree.” – Russ (22:14)

• His workers dub him “the Pontiff of Soho”:

  “I am the pontiff of Soho.” – Scott (22:45)

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Conflicts, Crossroads, and Choices

8. Facing the (Fake) Mafia

• Trouble brews when someone attempts to shake Scott down for $2,000 to “operate on Carmine’s turf.”
• Little Scott, a NYPD officer in the off-season, confronts the would-be mafioso:

  “I pulled out my shield and said, well I’m in a gang too... about 50,000 of us, all wear blue.” – Little Scott (25:55)

9. The Offer He Can’t Refuse

• The real mafia proposes:

  “They wanted me to lead the entire five borough New York City tree distribution. They said, ‘No one will ever stand in your way.’” – Scott (27:02)

• The lure: 10x the current earnings and ultimate street power. Scott fantasizes about "having 10 thugs at my beck and call." (28:07)

• Moral Reckoning:

  "My dad... told me, you know, one day you end up dead from them, because there’s no morality to them." – Scott (28:48)
  "It’s a devil’s deal. Eventually the devil gets paid." – Little Scott (30:21)

• Beyond tree-selling, Scott realizes involvement means laundering and drug dealing at stands.

10. Saying No to the Mafia

• Scott refuses to pay the mafia tax any longer, risking retaliation:

  "They said, 'Well, I think you better rethink about that.' ... I said, I've been in this business for quite some years, but I'm willing to not be in the business anymore if that's what it takes." – Scott (32:03)

• At a tense “mandated” mafia meeting, Scott stands up for his business’s independence.
• Ultimately, he escapes deeper criminal entanglement, earning a reluctant mafia pass—“One more year… but Vinnie and his family get a tree…” (32:36)

11. Legacy, Loss, and Tradition

• Scott debates the meaning of power—To be loved or feared?—quoting The Bronx Tale (33:27).
• After a quick, devastating illness, Scott dies in 2020 at 64 (34:46).
  • "He was a mensch. He really, really just loved everything about [Christmas].” – Little Scott (35:22)
• Russ and crew keep the tradition alive, delivering Scott’s annual “tremen” speech each new season:

  "We are about to uphold the New York City tradition. You are New York City tremen from this point forward." (37:04)

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Notable Quotes

• On the business:

  “There’s some really disgusting riff raff out there.” – Scott (10:10)

  "It was almost like being in a war." – Little Scott (12:43)

• On legacy:

  "Scott's life is the legacy of Christmas trees. It's a beautiful one." – Russ (35:04)

  "Christmas trees is absolutely a natural aromatherapy. Put people around a Christmas tree in their home, they feel better. Case closed." – Scott (35:54)

• On morality:

  "It's a devil's deal, and eventually, the devil gets paid." – Little Scott (30:21)

  "It’s a much stronger man that derives his power from love." – Scott (33:27)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Scott’s introduction and reputation: 06:22
• Mob involvement and sabotage: 08:28–10:47
• The Missouri sheriff incident: 12:28–14:04
• Casino days and mafia deepening: 15:28–16:09
• Big break into Soho: 16:50
• First celebrity customers: 21:50–22:35
• Confronting the fake mafioso: 25:11–26:05
• The mafia power offer: 27:02
• Scott’s moral crisis and refusal: 28:48–32:36
• Scott’s philosophy on love vs. fear: 33:27
• Scott’s illness and legacy: 34:21–36:40
• Tradition continues: 37:04

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Thematic Takeaways

• The NYC Christmas tree trade embodies both the joy and ruthlessness of the city: tradition collides with cutthroat capitalism, and “miracles” are built on streetwise negotiation and occasional violence.
• Morality and legacy outlast short-term power—Scott chooses love, community, and memory over fear and mafia money.
• The power of place and person: under the extravagance, the “Pontiff of Soho” leaves a human imprint, now carried on by his “tremen.”

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Memorable Moments

• Mafia-turfed tree stands, sabotages with hatchets and urine, and a sheriff’s wild rampage by truck.
• The “tremen” speech, repeated every season—an improbable mythmaking ritual for temporary workers and old hands alike.
• Scott’s choice to walk away from the mafia, reclaiming his business and his name.

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“Case closed. They're just happier, nicer. And, you know, they feel better. They don't know why... it’s the olfactory system making them feel reminiscent of their childhood, their youth, and the people they shared Christmas with.” – Scott (36:17)

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Dedication

This episode is dedicated to the memory of Scott Lechner, Pontiff of Soho and emperor of the New York City tremen, and to all those who keep holiday traditions alive in the city’s coldest months.

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End original podcast content summary. This captures the heart and grit of Snap Judgment’s “The Christmas Tree Mafia” for anyone who missed the episode.

Transcript

[A]

SNAP Studios. We are so grateful to you for your support over the years. We get to make stories year after year because of you, but we really love to know more about you, what makes you love the snap. And if you're willing to tell us a little about yourself and your relationship with the show, I would really appreciate it. We, we'd love your honest feedback. The survey should take about 10 minutes to complete. Our first few questions will ask a little bit about you so we can make sure we're talking to people from a wide range of backgrounds. KQED.org snapsurvey that's KQED.org snapsurveY and thank you so much for taking this survey and listening. It means a lot. KQED.org snapsurvey thank you. If you're running the party this year, know that Whole Foods Market is your holiday headquarters. Host like a pro with heat. Neat sides from the prepared foods department. Easy and delicious. Yes, they have all the fix ins. Stock up with wallet friendly favorites from the365. Brand sales throughout the month on main course proteins with no antibiotics ever. And if you're anything like me, you'll appreciate that you can order online for pickup and delivery and select zip codes. Make it look easy. Shop for everything you need at Whole Foods Market, your holiday headquarters. Every year, right around the start of the holidays, we have a ritual. I tell my kids, alright kids, we're off to Target to pick up one of those prefab Christmas trees they've got in the box there. And you don't have to worry, it comes already decorated in everything. Then they start screaming bloody murder. No, no, you can't get a fake tree. What do you mean fake? I just spray a bottle of some of that pine smell stuff for aroma. It's just like the real thing. No needles all over the floor, no mess. You can't. It's not right. Well, we'll be right back. There's no such thing as a pre decorated tree. We holler and argue all the way to the Christmas tree lot where they run about, they pick up the perfect real tree. Daddy. And they insist I pay some burly fellow an enormous sum of money in cash. Cards not accepted. What's that about? And we haul this treasure back to the house. We drape it in lights and ornaments and ribbons while drinking eggnog. And they play Last Christmas on the radio again and again and again, attempting to drive me out of my mind. And then magically, in the midst of our household cacophony, a Christmas miracle. Where once stood Just a piece of wood. Now a glorious bejeweled tree emerges, more magnificent than ever. Someone's baking cookies. A glass of wine has spirited itself into my hand. The giggling, the digging around for a board game. And that scent not from an aerosol can, but from a tree. Pine scented wonder, purple permeating the room in good cheer. Such heartwarming memories with the people I love. And sitting under the brightly lit branches, watching my children as they each in turn land on Park Place and boardwalk with my hotels on it. I truly wouldn't have it any other way. Rudolph has worked his spell once more. But I've recently learned. But it's not exactly magic, and it certainly isn't reindeer that make all of this possible. You see, at the North Pole, as in life, somebody's got to do the dirty work. And so today on snap judgment, we proudly present the Christmas tree mafia wise guy, Saint Nick in an offer you cannot refuse. My name is Lynn Washington. Sure, deck the halls, but look over your shoulder because you're listening to Snapdudgeon. It's a chilly New York City afternoon, a few weeks before Christmas, and producer Ilana Strauss sits inside a trailer in the middle of a Christmas tree lot. Sampas, this is not just any Christmas tree lot. It's the Rolls Royce Earth, the KITT Santa baby blinged out Christmas tree lot full of elves running about with good cheer. And the manager, hard boiled New Yorker with a gray beard and a fedora, put between Alana's interview and customers coming up to the window to buy trees. Same time he's making a cup of coffee and his phone keeps ringing. And yes, for this story, there may be a bit of explicit language, but ho, ho, ho, this is a family show. Not to worry. Snap judgment.

[B]

That's nice.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Hello, this is Scott Soho. Tree is here. Okay, why don't you light the tree? That's a horrible thing to say.

[C]

Ripped off.

[B]

What do you mean ripped off? You got a gorgeous tree. $139. Not much for a nice tree in Manhattan, I'll tell you, that's average.

[D]

In Manhattan, there's this lot just packed with Christmas trees. There's an RV in the middle of it where there's this guy on the phone.

[B]

It's okay, don't worry. Nobody wants your money. You can have it back.

[D]

That's Scott Lechner.

[B]

What was her problem? That's nothing. In this, you have to deal with it. It's part of the game.

[D]

And in this game, Scott's a legend.

[B]

We're talking Trees. It's Christmas. We're talking trees. Look at my baby. My name is Scott Lechner, and I'm the manager of Soho Trees, flagship location at Varick and 6th Avenue in Manhattan.

[D]

Scott's the short guy. He's got a grizzled mustache, he's almost always wearing a fedora, and he runs the most exclusive Christmas tree stand in Manhattan.

[C]

A vendor in Soho is selling what.

[E]

Is likely the city's most expensive trees.

[A]

Brace yourself.

[B]

$6,500 a pop, and celebrities show up all the time. Carmen Electra, the whole staff of million dollar listings, the Nero family, all of them.

[D]

And Scott will do pretty much anything to keep customers happy.

[B]

We did have a gentleman two years ago, year before last, who wanted 40 different Christmas trees in assorted sizes, all hung upside down and decorated from the ceiling of his loft.

[D]

This tiny piece of Christmas magic is actually part of a long and dangerous tango between Scott and the New York mafia. This stand, and quite possibly Scott's life all came down to this one decision, one choice between light and dark. And to understand that choice, we gotta go back to Brooklyn in the 1980s. How do you get started selling Christmas trees?

[B]

Me and some of my friends were absolutely dug down, if you know what I mean. We were going to be thugs and.

[D]

Crooks for a while. Scott rolled around in a Cadillac selling watches, and then he kind of stumbled into this thing that would completely change his life.

[B]

Some friends of ours had purchased a bowling alley, and they said, why don't you put some Christmas trees in front of a bowling alley and sell them to our customers?

[F]

But we didn't.

[B]

We instead opened a different location.

[D]

He opened up a stand down the street, and he started selling Christmas trees. And Scott did what other street businesses did. He paid the mafia tax. Scott said in his neighborhood, lots of businesses either paid off the mob or were being run by them. The mob's Christmas tree involvement was so well known that the capo rumored to control the Christmas tree industry, he was nicknamed Piney.

[B]

We didn't know what we were getting into. We didn't know if it was a lucrative business, if it was a good business, if it wasn't.

[D]

Scott didn't know how things were gonna turn out, but he knew he had to hire people he trusted. So one of Scott's first employees was this guy called little Scott.

[E]

Because I started when I was a kid. He was known as Big Scott, and I was known as Little Scott.

[D]

They grew up in Sheepshead Bay in Brooklyn.

[E]

Well, the funny thing is, is that I'm Six feet. And he was, I think, on his best day, five, six, five, seven.

[D]

So little Scott was the muscle, and big Scott was the brains. And they had this really short amount of time to actually make it. During Christmas tree season.

[E]

You're one snowstorm away or one bad, you know, rain event for the week away from working all month to break even.

[D]

So how much they made during these few weeks determined how they lived the rest of the year. So they could not leave trees unguarded at night, because if they did, other stands would just rob them.

[E]

You know, and it's just the business. It's a cutthroat business. You gotta make all of your money in a very small window.

[B]

And I did many a night shift where I was on duty by myself. It was only me and a hatchet. Some really disgusting riff raff out there.

[E]

One year, our night guy fell asleep and he woke up and we would light 40 trees.

[D]

Not only that, people used to, like, light each other's trees on fire, right?

[E]

Oh, yeah, urine. That was a big one, too. They got, like, a spray thing, and they walked by and sprayed someone's whole thing of trees with urine. Pungent urine.

[D]

Yeah. No one's gonna buy a Christmas tree that smells like that.

[C]

So.

[D]

So normally with sabotage, people try to be discreet, but one day, it just gets straight up insulting. Big Scott's at the stand with his pal Joe and his employee Besom.

[E]

These guys just kind of walk over and take a tree and just start putting it onto their van or whatever they were doing.

[D]

So Scott's guys run out and they start yelling, and then the other guys start yelling, and then it gets physical.

[E]

And Joe just goes into full taekwondo mode and. And just takes. There's like two or three of them. Just takes them out in two seconds. And Besom grabs a saw and puts it right to one guy's neck on the floor and says, you move, I'm gonna cut your head off.

[F]

All right?

[E]

And then, like, you know, a few of the other guys, like, subdued them.

[D]

After this. The guys wanted more. It wasn't just about surviving anymore. They wanted to be big.

[E]

You know, we weren't looking to hurt anybody, but we were expanding and threatening everyone around us.

[D]

Every Christmas, Scott's Christmas tree stands were growing all over Brooklyn. Everybody in the neighborhood was buying trees from Scott, including the Mafia.

[E]

We used to love when the connected guys came because they would spend tons of money. They gave you a $20 tip for just, you know, giving them rope. You know, it was like, hey, you saw a pinky ring you know, hey, this is good.

[D]

So with each new lot, Scott got bolder and he started to think he could get away with pretty much anything. So he set up shop right down the street from this other Christmas tree stand. And this stand was run by an out of town sheriff from Missouri.

[E]

And yes, we were trying to hurt our competitor.

[D]

They were trying to drive him out of business. The Missouri sheriff didn't like that, obviously. So right away, the sheriff's people started robbing Scott. One night, they stole thousands of dollars worth of trees.

[E]

It was almost like being in a war. Like, you know, what are they going to do to us now? What are we going to do to them?

[D]

One day, Scott's sitting in a trailer, probably smoking a cigarette, wearing his fedora, and the Missouri sheriff shows up outside and starts yelling.

[B]

So I'm going to get you out of here. I'm going to rip you into pieces with my bare hands. I ain't going to need nothing.

[D]

Scott refuses to come out, so the sheriff storms off. And then Scott hears him come right up to the trailer door. The Missouri sheriff pulls out his ax and he hacks it through the front door of Scott's trailer.

[B]

He says, the next one's going through your head. When I can't see out here, I was like, oh, my God, me and six of my friends could have taken this guy. You need artillery to put him down. That's how scary he was. And he was all attitude. He was a sheriff. Yeah, he was a bonafide sheriff.

[E]

So the guy lost it and he jumped in his white pickup truck and.

[D]

He drives straight into 30 of Scott's trees. He crashes through a bunch of wooden horses, and he keeps driving around Scott's lot. Little Scott's standing close by.

[E]

You know, I could see him behind the wheel of his truck. And one of the guys had to dive out of the way of the truck.

[D]

Then the sheriff heads straight for the Christmas tree booth, and he just demolishes.

[E]

It and ran him over and popped his tire and drove away like a maniac.

[B]

Now, they could have killed somebody and they didn't mind if they had. Yeah, at that point is when action had to be taken.

[D]

All right, so things are getting way out of control, and Scott needed to do something. Every year he'd been paying the mafia tax, and now he needed to call in the favor. What did you do?

[B]

I instructed some people to let them know that they had to leave town tonight, that tomorrow wouldn't be accepted. And if they were in town by tomorrow night, nobody would find them.

[F]

We Got a tree.

[A]

Sc.

[B]

What a scare. Hi. Hey, how are you? Open it up for me. Did he show you some nobles? Did you see them open? And how magnificent they are. So please do enjoy it and have the most wonderful Christmas ever. Thanks.

[C]

You too.

[B]

The biggest problems we had were turf wars, street fighting over areas that I felt we deserved, that we had properly annexed and that others didn't. So there they helped me.

[D]

The help wasn't free, of course. Scott called in a favor and favors have debts. So the Christmas tree mafia wanted to know what Scott could do for them.

[B]

And I'm half Hebrew by birth, so they really liked that though, because in their lexicon that means I'm an earner. Of course I knew what to say. I was a wise guy, you know, you're good with numbers. I'd be like, uh huh. Are you very good with numbers? Uh huh.

[D]

In the off season, when he wasn't selling Christmas trees, Scott started working for them as a pit boss at their casino. Between that and the trees, his relationship with the mob deepened. They started paying him visits, asking questions.

[B]

I got severely interviewed by a few of them to see if I was going to be loyal and good and what they wanted. And I passed those tests.

[D]

Scott wasn't sure why they were questioning him. He didn't know they were making big plans for him. But what are you going to do? Say no to the Mafia? All right, so it was the early 90s and New York started booming. Giuliani was mayor, and more and more rich people started moving into the city. People who could afford to pay big bucks for Christmas trees. So for the first time, Scott realizes he's got this opportunity to be this big shot that he's always wanted to be. He ventured outside of Brooklyn and started scouting Manhattan. Big Scott called little Scott from Soho.

[E]

I remember him calling me up and telling me that. He goes, I found a great location. I said, where is it? He said, sixth Avenue in Spring Street. I said, that's.

[D]

But Scott bet on the right neighborhood. Soho exploded. Business was going well. Scott started to open up more locations. He had to hire more workers.

[F]

When I met Scott, literally all I had was a backpack. That's it. I didn't own anything else. There was nothing else for me. You know, I spent a long time just being a vagabond, traveling around, doing nothing.

[D]

That's Russ.

[F]

I was in a really bad place when I started working there. A really, really bad place. And a lot of stuff was going on. I was actually homeless at the time.

[D]

Russ saw this posting on Craigslist about this Christmas tree gig. And he went to meet Scott in Scott's apartment on the lower east side.

[F]

He's a very short person. He was like maybe 5, 7, and absolutely perfect white teeth. His smile, he had this very, like, open smile, you know, where you could see his white teeth. And he would tilt his head a certain way, and he always wore a wide brimmed hat. And this hat was, like, absolutely iconic.

[D]

There were a bunch of other people in the apartment all around Scott. They all wanted jobs.

[B]

Mountain climbers, hikers, world travelers mixed in with actors and actresses that are in between gigs that gotta make money. And they're not baristas, you know, because everyone else is a barista.

[E]

And then also a lot of people who couldn't hold regular employment. I mean, we had some off the wall people that worked for us. And of course, the crazier they were, the. They'd come back to work the following year. They always, the crazy ones, always wanted to come back, you know, and we didn't care, you know, your background, you know, as long as you are a hard worker. Except vegans. I hated hiring vegans.

[C]

Ugh.

[D]

Scott really liked to sell the crowd on this Christmas tree job. He gave them this bigger than life speech.

[F]

We're New York City tree men. We're gonna have the tradition. We're going to stand there in the cold and not give up because we're New York City tremen and New York City tremen don't get cold. And we have this, like, tradition to hold up for. Not just for us, but for the city. From the second he started speaking, I had to do it. And I was like, so I have the job? And he's like, yes. And that was it.

[D]

Russ and the other workers, they show up to work their first day. It's this brisk fall morning, and 30 workers line the street.

[F]

You know, like, you showed up at 6am and you worked until you were done. And we're just told that we have two days to build seven Christmas tree stands and we better get start hammering.

[D]

They create these elaborate winter wonderland stands at seven different locations. There are red ribbons, wreaths, candy canes, ornaments, lights everywhere, the whole shebang. You're not in New York anymore.

[F]

You're in the north pole during the day. It's madness. There'd be people screaming, and I'm screaming at the guys.

[D]

They built these cozy cottage tents lined with Christmas lights and trinkets. Everything's lit with this.

[F]

And then you hear the chainsaws going and the people moving, and it's almost like there's so much noise, there's no time to think. And then there'll just be quietness because we're just surrounded by trees.

[D]

And then there's the smell.

[F]

You just smell of different types of pine trees. Yes. Some pine trees smell like lemons.

[D]

There's this quiet bliss in the trees and this smell of piney lemons wafting by all smack in the middle of Manhattan. That means no one's trying to steal Scott's trees or throw hatchets at his head. And no one's running around spraying urine. It means that what Scott's doing, it's working. Ah, the sights of Christmas in New York. A 10 foot tree carted through the busy streets of SoHo. The business grows to 15 locations in four of the five boroughs. And Scott makes bank this Christmas tree industry in New York, it's a half a billion dollar industry all in only a couple months a year. He's not just selling to mobsters now, he's also selling to the legitimately wealthy. Like the Queen of Christmas herself. I don't want a lot for Christmas.

[B]

Mariah Carey was, I was calling her Mary.

[F]

You know, obviously everybody knows Mariah Carey's our customer.

[B]

And she said, what? My name's Mariah. I said mary, come over here. And I gave her a couple of shots and she was like, eh, she can call me anything.

[D]

His new customers like Mariah Carey and Bradley Cooper and Kelly Ripa, they can afford to pay premium prices for a premium product.

[F]

Scott was literally the first person probably in the world to get more than $100 for a Christmas tree.

[B]

What we have here is some beautiful Canadian balsams. These are from Anti de Ganish, Nova Scotia, one of God's natural balsam treasure areas that grow the most gorgeous balsam in existence.

[F]

As you can see, it's like how Tiffany sell a bracelet, right? Like you know it's the best silver in the world, you know it's the best designers in the world.

[E]

We just call him the Pontiff of Soho.

[B]

I am the pontiff of soho.

[D]

The Pontiff along with his cast of merry men.

[B]

Let's just shake it out and make sure it's good.

[E]

Everyone else mimics what we started. He set the rules in Manhattan.

[D]

But as the pontiff of soho, Scott's success soon attracts unwanted attention from the boys.

[E]

So Scott calls me up and he goes, hey, listen, we may have a little bit of a problem.

[A]

When Snap Judgment returns, Scott gets an offer that he cannot refuse. Stay tuned.

[C]

At Radiolab. We love nothing more than Nerding out about science, neuroscience, chemistry. But.

[D]

But we do also like to get into other kinds of stories. Stories about policing or politics, country music, hockey, sex of bugs.

[C]

Regardless of whether we're looking at science or not science, we bring a rigorous curiosity to get you the answers and.

[D]

Hopefully make you see the world anew.

[C]

Radiolab adventures on the edge of what.

[A]

We think we know Wherever you get.

[D]

Your podcasts.

[A]

Welcome back to Snap Judgment. You're listening to the Christmas Tree Mafia episode and you just heard Scott. Scott's on the top of the Christmas tree market with Mariah Carey by his side pouring shots. But you can only stay so high for so long before the troubles start to drag you down. And Scott. Scott just got a message from the boys. Now, this story does contain explicit language. Sensitive listeners are advised.

[E]

So Scott calls me up and he goes, hey, listen, we may have a little bit of a problem.

[D]

What happens is there's this guy working on the Christmas slot. We're not going to use his real name. We'll say John Smith. John tells Scott that this guy Carmine came to their stand in Soho with a little bit of trouble and a whole lot of muscle. And he's got a message for Scott.

[E]

He said that this is his territory and if we want to sell here, we got to give him $2,000. And if we don't give him 2,000 DOL, we're gonna get shut down or all our stuff's gonna get destroyed. I said, all right, you tell Carmine to meet me here tonight at 10 o' clock and I'll have his two grand.

[D]

So that night, little Scott meets this guy Carmine in a nearby bar.

[E]

And this guy's like right out of Central Cass and he's got the three quarter leather code, he's got this, he's got that. And he goes, I'm Carmine. This is my neighborhood. You know. Meanwhile, the guy's just like 35 years old. Carmine's gonna run the neighbor. You expect a 55 year old guy to walk in? You know, my life growing up on the streets is I know how to smell in 30 seconds, okay? Because I grew up in an extremely tough neighborhood with extremely tough people. So I knew that something wasn't right here. And I said, well, I got a problem. I said, I'm not going to pay you. I said, I'm not going to give you any money and nothing's going to happen and you're not going to do anything. And he goes, yeah, you know, you know my gang, you know, I said, well, and I pulled out My shield. And I said, well, I'm in a gang too.

[D]

Oh, yeah, by the way, little Scott's job, Not during Christmas season. He's a New York City cop. He shows Carmine his badge.

[E]

There's about 50,000 of us. We all wear blue. And you're gonna go meet all of them right now. Cause I'm gonna arrest you. And the guy starts breaking down hysterical crying. Oh, no, he made me do it. It's him. It's him. I'm an actor. What are you talking. John Smith and him are acting buddies. They concocted this whole plan to shake us down for two grand, thinking that we would fall for it. So instead, Carmine and John Smith might have gotten a little backhand therapy and never works for us again.

[D]

These guys weren't the real deal. Both Scots knew that the actual mafia was much scarier. Remember all those tests, all that questioning when Scott was in Brooklyn? Well, one day the mafia approached him with an offer. One of those offers that could change everything for Scott and his Christmas tree stance.

[B]

They wanted to capture the entire five borough New York City Christmas tree distribution business. And they wanted me to lead it. And they told me, nobody will ever stand in your way.

[D]

Up to that point, Scott had paid the Christmas tree mafia tax and they'd provided him with protection. And that was true for lots of Christmas tree stands in the city. But now the Mafia was telling him he could take all these stands in Staten Islands, Queens, Bronx, trees on all the corners, trees in the parking lots. They could all be his. They say, we assure you, Scott, you.

[B]

Run them all, you'll make about 10 times what you earn now, which is a young, low middle class guy. Striving was very appealing to me. The power that I would have had behind me was very appealing to my Napoleonic ego.

[E]

And he wanted to be the biggest Christmas tree seller in the city.

[D]

If he took them up on the offer, Scott would have more power than he could ever imagine. So he imagined it.

[B]

You know, my ego on one shoulder is like when you see the cartoons. There's the good angel and the bad devil on each shoulder.

[D]

Scott had already tasted a bit of the good life while working at the mafia's underground casinos.

[B]

So the daredevil was really winning out. Because I loved having 10 thugs at my beck.

[A]

And for.

[B]

I loved it. Yeah, go get me a coffee. And the guy, 325 pounds, no fat, would come back and I'd be like, you got it wrong. I said, I don't want no sugar. They'd be like, boss, you know, the Guy could lift me and throw me like a harpoon.

[C]

Right.

[B]

I like that.

[D]

He was seriously considering the opportunity, and he told his dad about the offer.

[B]

My dad, who was an ex thug himself, told me, you know, one day you end up dead from them because there's no morality to them.

[D]

Scott's dad knew that if Scott was helping the mafia control the Christmas tree business, he'd actually be helping with a lot less wholesome and jolly work. He understood that the Christmas tree empire doesn't stop at trees. There'd be money laundering.

[B]

And also, it's a really neat place to hide drugs at a tree stand for distribution.

[E]

So what are we gonna do? We're gonna get into bed with people, and they're selling drugs out of our Christmas tree stands? I mean, at what point does it become stupid? Oh, you know, I could do this, I could do that. You also wind up dead. You know, you got that going for you.

[D]

Scott thought about all the different ways it could go down. The FBI or a Justice Department agent could do a crackdown and grill Scott. But the boys wouldn't want him to talk.

[B]

They might put a bullet in my head so I don't get them indicted. Yeah, even though I was at their house the other night for pasta. And their wife notes just how I like the extra sauce on there with the extra grated cheese. Yeah, but now they're gonna put a bullet in my head and say, sorry, it's creepy. Well, they killed one of my friends.

[D]

Seriously?

[B]

Yeah. Not about Christmas trees, about other things.

[D]

This was the guy that ratted on.

[B]

The Mafia, and he was in my group of friends. He wasn't my best friend or anything. Thank God I still shed tears for him. They killed him.

[D]

That's hard.

[B]

Because he was a rat.

[E]

Look, you don't go into partnerships with those people. You work for them. It's different. You think you're partners. You're not. You're not partners with these people because you're not in their world. So you're just working for them. It's a devil's deal, and eventually, the devil gets paid.

[D]

Scott thought about the offer and the world he'd enter. He decided that his business shouldn't be involved with the mafia anymore, like, at all. So the next time they asked him for his regular dues, Scott said no. It seemed like it was Scott's way of saying no to their offer, too.

[B]

Because I felt that kept us in some sort of association and connection with them. Yeah, and who the hell wants to pay off illegal grift.

[D]

A little While later, the mafia invited him to a meeting. I guess I'm trying to imagine, like that you're invited to, like that meeting.

[B]

I wasn't invited to that meeting.

[D]

Meeting.

[B]

I was mandated, okay? I was told to show up.

[D]

Scott's friends were way too scared to go, so Scott went alone.

[B]

It was actually at a shopping center, a major shopping center, but they had a big conference room in there.

[D]

Scott came into the conference room and there were people sitting around a table deep in discussion. He looked around, saw some local mafiosos and some familiar faces.

[B]

And I was like, you're a sworn in elected politician.

[D]

The conversation took a turn when Scott walked in the room. They asked him, what's the deal? Where's the money?

[B]

I threw my best poke bluff in and I said, I can't be penny no more. And they said, well, I think you better rethink about that. And I said, well, I did. You know, I've been in this business for quite some years, but I'm willing to not be in the business anymore if that's what it takes. And, you know, as easily as they were enamored by my. My sharp mathematical skills and my sharp tongue, they could have easily turned to me and said, you're a little. Someone's gonna hit the baseball bat one night, you know, at 2:00 clock in the morning, who's gonna know who, why or what, Right?

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

So I said, I can't afford to be paying you guys anymore. I'm so sorry. And I said, I really think that we're just a small little tree company. Just a couple of guys selling some trees without friends. We can't really afford any of this involvement. They looked at me like I had some gumption. And they kind of went tacitly like, all right, one more year, you know, And I think they looked at me like, oh, so now you're playing schmuck, right? God, play schmuck. Get out of here. But Vinnie and his family get a tree, we all get trees. Yeah, you'll get trees, you know. You know, I had a personal moral epiphany about it.

[D]

Scott could have had it all. It came down to one thing. Would he rather be loved or feared?

[B]

It's a much stronger man that derives his power from love. The guy who's feared his life is miserable. His death would be an inconvenience financially to some and a blessing to others. A man who's loved takes all that with him. And just because you're powerful, it doesn't validate really anything in Your life, what does it validate?

[E]

You know it's a line from a movie, right?

[D]

I knew I heard it somewhere, but I didn't know where.

[E]

It's a line from the movie called the Bronx Tale. Then I used to tell him, you're wrong. You'd rather be feared.

[D]

Little Scott and big Scott, they'd sit in a trailer and debate the meaning of life. To be loved or feared. They kept up the debate for over a decade. But this kind of pontification just feels different when you get a diagnosis.

[E]

You know, it was. You know, and when he got sick. When he got sick, he got sick really, really bad, really fast.

[D]

At first, Scott reassured everyone that things would be okay, but he was diagnosed with cancer. The people at the stand were pretty shocked. Little Scott remembers the last time they talked on the phone.

[E]

I said, I love you, pal. You know, And I knew he was dying, and I knew it was probably gonna be the last time I spoke to him. And that was very hard because he was a good person.

[F]

But see, Scott is. What Scott doesn't want to admit is that Scott's life is the legacy of Christmas trees.

[B]

It's a beautiful one. It's interesting. Well, meeting you was part of the benefits of this. Get the door so I can get the.

[D]

In December 2020, Scott passed away. He was 64 years old.

[E]

Scott was, you know what. Do you ever heard the expression a mensch? Okay, he was a mensch. Okay. That's who he was, you know, but because Scott loves cribs. I mean, it was his favorite time of the year. He hated when it was over. Like, the rest of us were like, we're tired. We want to go home. I'm so done with Christmas. And he was like, no, I would do this all year if they let me, you know? And he really, really just loved everything about it.

[F]

What is it?

[B]

Aromatherapies. Christmas trees is absolutely a natural one. Put people around a Christmas tree in their home, they feel better. Case closed. They're just happy, nicer.

[F]

We're probably gonna have one night where we go to Valeska's. We eat matzo ball soup with pierogies and latkes, like we did every year with Scott. And we're all gonna be holding back tears.

[B]

Kate's closed. They're just happier, nicer. And, you know, they feel better. They don't know why. They think it's just a holiday revel, but it's also the olfactory system making them feel.

[F]

Oh.

[B]

Reminded them reminiscent of their childhood, their youth growing up. And the people they shared Christmas with.

[A]

Yeah, it's funny.

[F]

It's just.

[C]

Yeah.

[F]

Damn, I'm gonna miss him, you know? All right, I gotta. Deep breaths.

[D]

Russ came back to Soho trees every year and now he's the foreman. He gives the same speech to new employees that Scott gave him.

[F]

And I tell my guys this every year when we start. The first thing I say, when we're all, when we're getting ready to unload the wood. We are about to uphold the New York City tradition. You are New York City tremen from this point forward, and that is who you are. You do not get cold, you do not get tired. And you're going to do everything with a smile because we're selling Christmas trees.

[A]

This story is dedicated to the memory of Scott Lechner, the pontiff of Soho and the emperor of the New York city. Tremendous big thanks as well to Russell little Scott for holding down Christmas. The original score for this piece was by Renzo Goriot, was produced by Alana Strauss, John Facil and Annie Nguyen. And snappus. It is not over. When we return, a covert operation goes horribly wrong on Snap Judgment. The Christmas Tree Mafia special returns. Stay tuned. Welcome back to Snap Judgment, the Christmas Tree Mafia episode. My name is Glenn Washington and our next story comes from a man with real secrets from a covert operative named Mike Ramsdell. And her story starts when Mike was assigned to go into Soviet Russia to extract a high level target. Snap judge.

[C]

I really do think I had a death wish. I was just going through some very, very difficult times. And so when states contacted me and asked me to consider this mission, I just thought, you know, bring it on, I'm your man. Bring it on. No matter what happens, I can live with it. If I make it back, that's fine. If I don't, who's going to care? It truly was escapism. I wanted just to get out. It was very important for us to find some informants. And we did find three individuals, what we call in the spy world assets. And these three Russian individuals worked for the target, the man that we were after. But when it was all said and done, just as the mission was to conclude and we were going to extract the target out of the country, one of the informants betrayed us and told the target who we were and what we were about to do. And that's when the mission went bad. My orders were to sanitize the mission. And what that means in spook lingo is to get rid of anything and everything. So if the KGB or the Soviet secret police came into our apartments. They would not be able to find anything. I was instructed, you will not have your weapon. You will not have your communication device. I threw away my weapon and my radio into the river in the middle of the night. I was definitely on my own. I would have to use all my training and resources to survive. My orders were clean those apartments, do my work, and then get out of town as quick as possible. The last apartment that I was to sterilize was on the sixth floor. There was something that told me to look outside. And I walked across the hallway to the kitchen, pulled back the drapes. I looked down, and there I saw two mafia goons waiting for me. People think that, you know, 007, he never shows his true emotions. That's not true at all. I knew I was in big trouble Because I'd already disposed of my weapon and my communication device. I couldn't confront the number. I had nothing. And suddenly I heard the crowbar break the front door of the apartment. The fear and the panic was just even retelling the story. Right now, my heart's beating. I heard the crowbar start to break the front door. And all I could do was. I had no other choice. I had to confront them. I pulled on my gloves. I zipped up my jacket. I walked towards the front door and said a prayer. And then the splinters and the door came apart. There. The Mafia goon was standing there. I had a maneuver worked out with a certain blow to his temple. I had nothing. And he had a pair of brass knuckles. Within a short time, I looked like a big red wedge of Swiss cheese. Somehow we ended up in this stairwell. In one hand, he has these bloody brass knuckles. In the other, he pulled out a stiletto knife and was jousting where the first cuts were going to go. Just as he was ready to carve me up by the grace of God, There was the building drunk on the stairwell underneath us. And he reached up through the stairwell and grabbed the Mafia goon's pant leg and pulled on it. And in that saving moment when that Mafia goon looked down, I flew around him and over him. Down those stairs I bounded. I told myself, mike, get to the train station. I'd lost so much blood from the beating, I stopped by a vacant building and turned around to see how close they were behind me. And the only movement on the street that night was the falling snow. The very first snow. Know of the oncoming Russian winter. Why did I choose to do this? I didn't have to accept this assignment. Headquarters had Directed me that I would catch a local train and I would be on that train for several days until I got to the village of Potel, where indeed we did have a safe house. I am so thankful to be on the train and to be alive at the same time. I'm constantly looking over my shoulder thinking that the mafia or the KGB are on the train with me. I'm in terrible, terrible condition. The only sustenance I had in those five days was the awful Russian black tea that was available to everyone on the train. I cannot tell you how hungry and starved I was, but I knew if I could hang on long enough. It is policy that every safe house is equipped with 7 days MREs. Meals ready to eat. It was late at night. It was dark, blizzard, snowy. I got to this dilapidated train station. I made my way trudging through the heavy snow about a mile to the cabin. I walked to the cupboard, opened the doors. There are no boxes of MREs. Went to the back of the cabin, to the closet, looked in the floorboards, up in the rafters of the cabin, and again, no MREs. I was so spent, I pulled probably a dozen blankets over me and crawled in a straw bed, fully dressed in the morning, trudged into the village to the marketplace. And I convinced myself there, you lucky cuss, you will be able to get some cabbage, whoopee, some potatoes. And strange as it sounds, as I walked, I saw. I saw no one. I saw no tracks in the snow when I finally approached the marketplace and pushed open the big oak doors. And that's when I realized the village had basically been abandoned. I was hoping to see a light on or a candle burning and to find someone. And I did. I was able to talk to to two old couples. And I took out a fistful of rubles in exchange for a potato. And they would not do it. The conditions in Russia were awful. I had more rubles than those old couples would ever have seen in their life. And yet keeping food for themselves to survive was more important. That's when the first thoughts came to my mind that, Mike, you might not make it. How am I going to survive? Where is the food going to come from? Get back to the cabin. I was almost obsessed with the idea of dying. And I thought, there I am, isolated in this little village in the middle of Russia, and that's how I was going to die. Why can't it be a gun battle on the streets of Moscow so that the people can read about this hero? I had been in the cabin possibly three days. It was Mid morning. Sorry, but I get a little emotional in this part. I'm at a table writing letters of goodbye because I'm not going to make it. And when any one of us writes a letter, the first thing we do is put a date on it. I had totally lost touch with reality and especially date and time. But when I pulled out my calendar, that is the moment when I first realized that it is Thanksgiving in America. I heard this loud thump or bang. I thought it could be an explosive. And that's when I heard the sound of a vehicle. I hustled to the window, but there was so much snow, I could not identify the vehicle, but it sounded like the engine of a Jeep. Knowing about one or two of our agents losing their hands or their face, I panicked, waiting for the explosion to happen. I ran to the back of the cabin, probably waited 15, 20 minutes, and nothing happened. I pulled the cabin door open 6, 8, 10 inches. And there on the stone steps of the cabin was a package about the size of a normal shoebox. There's no turning back now. I grabbed the package. My heart is pounding. And I pull the string off the package. There, the first thing, a box of macaroni and cheese, a little small box of frosted flakes, a jar of artichoke hearts. And there I see the Thanksgiving card, and I recognize the handwriting of my sister Karen. And then I prepared my Thanksgiving meal. There was a little package. I remember when I fixed the meal, around the outside of the plate, I put all these little colorful goumi bears. They had made their way from Torrance, California, to the American Embassy in Helsinki, Finland, and somehow from Helsinki, Finland, to the safe house in Potevka, Russia. Over the years, I made a concentrated effort to find out how the package could have gotten to Potevka and who brought it there and why. But in our line of work and intelligence, there is a cliche that is called the need to know. And I am not privileged to ask any questions about it because. Mike, do you have a need to know? When you work in the COVID world, there are so many unanswered questions you have. I still do not have a definitive answer as to how the package got to me.

[A]

Now, Mike wrote a book about this experience. We'll have a link on our website, snapjudgment.org that piece was produced by Anna Sussman with sound design by Renzo Goril. Oh, it's happened again, dear listeners, but the gift of storytelling knows no season. Just tell them to subscribe to the Snap Judgment podcast and magically become the most interesting person ever. Snap is brought to you by the Uber producer Mark Ristich and Nancy Lopez. Pat Mercede Miller, Renzo Goriot, Shayna Shealy, Teo Da Cott, Flo Wylie, John Facile, Marissa Dodge, Regina Berriaco, David Exume, Bo Walsh, Manny Nguyen. And as you know, this is not the news. No way is this the news. In fact, you could find a little something extra under your tree and you would still still not be as far away from the news as this is. But this is prx.