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- [00:03]
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- [01:25]
Eric Witty
I couldn't believe it. He was my big brother and he was gone.
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Narrator
One family member dead and three years later another vanishes.
- [01:39]
Detective
No one had seen her. No one had talked to her. No one knew where she was.
- [01:44]
Narrator
What detectives uncover is beyond the pale.
- [01:48]
Detective
I began to realize that I had dealt with these people in the past.
- [01:52]
Butch Witty
It went from a missing person to something more serious.
- [01:56]
Eric Witty
Anybody who would do that must have been a sociopath.
- [02:02]
Narrator
And a sickening ultimatum is revealed.
- [02:06]
Marie Witty
He was told he didn't have a choice. You have to do something about this. It has to happen now.
- [02:15]
Detective
I said, well, where's she at? Where's the body? She says there is nobody.
- [02:20]
Eric Witty
My worst nightmares were coming true.
- [02:38]
Narrator
In the quaint resort community of Beverly Shores, Indiana, the pace is easy and crime almost non existent. But on the evening of September 1, 1981, the local police department receives a panicked 911 call.
- [02:56]
Detective
It was Marie Witte that made the call and it went to Beverly Shores Police Department.
- [03:03]
Marie Witty
Marie Witte, 33, 3 year old mother of two in Beverly Shores says she just got home and found her husband dead on the couch. That her husband has been shot and she needs help immediately.
- [03:19]
Narrator
First responders race to the residence to find Marie, her mother, Marcy O'Donnell and Marie's two teenage sons, Eric and Butch, seemingly in shock.
- [03:30]
Detective
When the police came in, Marie told them there was a terrible accident, that her husband Paul Witty, had been shot. Paul had been apparently asleep on the couch when he was shot in the head.
- [03:45]
Narrator
Paul is pronounced dead at the scene.
- [03:53]
Marie Witty
It was a shocking revelation for the people who arrived because a lot of people in the community knew Paul Whitte and knew the family. They were friendly and loving to outsiders.
- [04:13]
Narrator
Paul Whitte was born in Michigan city, Indiana in 1937.
- [04:20]
Marie Witty
Paul's family was pretty rooted in the community. They had been in that county for a really long time. His dad worked for the railroad. At some point his parents split and his dad remarried a woman named Elaine.
- [04:41]
Narrator
When Paul was 17 years old, he enlisted in the Navy.
- [04:46]
Eric Witty
When he was in the navy, I was little, saw him occasionally and at Christmas time he would always come visit. I remember him as being a go getter, you know, always wanting to do something.
- [05:04]
Narrator
After his discharge, Paul returned to Indiana and settled in Beverly Shores, a popular beach community just an hour south of Chicago.
- [05:14]
Eric Witty
He was working with a steel company in Gary. He was also a volunteer fireman in Beverly Shores. And whenever he did anything, he went gung ho for it 200%.
- [05:31]
Detective
He was very much an outdoor man, a real macho guy, had the full beard and mustache. He was a hunter and a fisherman.
- [05:43]
Narrator
While in his late 20s, Paul took an eye opening trip to sleep sunny south Florida.
- [05:50]
Eric Witty
For whatever bee he got in his bonnet. He went to Florida. And my brother Paul tells me, oh, you get to tell mom where I spent my vacation. I was at a nudist camp and my aunt just about had a cow. My mom about had two cows. That's where he met infamous Marie.
- [06:21]
Narrator
Born in 1948, Hilma Marie Krist had a free spirit that matched her unorthodox upbringing. My birth father ran a nudist camp in Delray Beach, Florida. We had lots of acreage.
- [06:38]
Eric Witty
There was a pond or a lake and a big pool. He walked around nude all the time.
- [06:44]
Narrator
But as a child, I never felt uncomfortable.
- [06:49]
Eric Witty
I mean, people can't fathom that type of a lifestyle.
- [06:56]
Narrator
Paul and Marie hit it off. So much so that he soon returned to the resort a second time.
- [07:04]
Eric Witty
There was some secrecy about where Paul had spent his vacation. And here I was, I was maybe 14 years old and that would make Marie 16.
- [07:21]
Narrator
I think he was infatuated with her.
- [07:23]
Marie Witty
They probably didn't look like a logical match to outsiders. But it wasn't very long after that Marie got married to Paul Whitte.
- [07:34]
Eric Witty
When I first met Marie was just before they got married. She's not what I imagined that my brother would marry. She was loud and nobody, at least from our family was impressed with her at all.
- [07:48]
Narrator
27 year old Paul and 16 year old Marie married in 1964 and settled in a home in Beverly Shores, not far from Paul's father and stepmother, Len and Elaine Witte.
- [08:02]
Eric Witty
Paul was happy to be married and he wanted a family.
- [08:11]
Narrator
In 1966, 18 year old Marie gave birth to their first son Eric. His brother John, also known as Butch came along three years later.
- [08:24]
Detective
Paul was very much the boss in the house and Marie, she was a.
- [08:29]
Eric Witty
Palm maker of the children. Eric was more of a sportsman. He had dad's favor.
- [08:37]
Narrator
He was sort of the golden child.
- [08:40]
Eric Witty
Butch comes along and he is mama's boy.
- [08:47]
Narrator
Everyone knew Paul ran a tight ship.
- [08:51]
Butch Witty
Butch and Eric described their father as being a very strict authoritarian.
- [08:56]
Marie Witty
Paul seemed to have a pretty traditional view of marriage. So Paul worked for a living. Marie stayed home, took care of the house.
- [09:05]
Narrator
However, the young mother struggled to fill her role.
- [09:11]
Eric Witty
She did not know how to keep house. You had to walk across the clothes on the floor in the kitchen and it was a disaster.
- [09:25]
Narrator
In December of 1980, Marie's mother, Marcie O'Donnell moved in with them.
- [09:31]
Detective
Marie's mother was widowed, so she spent a lot of time with Marie and Butch would be with him often.
- [09:38]
Marie Witty
She loved being a grandma, she liked being close to her daughter and she would help out as needed.
- [09:45]
Eric Witty
They seem to share a happy go lucky type of coexistence.
- [09:56]
Narrator
But this outwardly happy household crumbles on September 1, 1981, when officers find Paul Whitty dead on his living room couch.
- [10:06]
Marie Witty
Strangely, it was a little serene for what they were walking into. The people in the house were pretty calm. But what police found was a man dead on his couch with a bullet hole in his head.
- [10:22]
Narrator
Even more shocking to police is who fired the gun.
- [10:27]
Detective
Essentially, Marie had told our investigator that her son Eric had a gun, had a.357 Magnum and had tripped and had went off and shot her husband in the head.
- [10:42]
Narrator
According to Marie, she wasn't home when her husband died, but her 15 year old son Eric insists it it was an accident.
- [10:52]
Marie Witty
Marie was basically in the driveway pulling into the house when the gun went off. So the only person believed to have been in the room when the gun fired was Eric. Eric Witty, the son said I'd found this gun, I'd never seen it before. I was interested in learning a little bit about it. So I brought it into my dad tripped and it discharged.
- [11:20]
Eric Witty
When Paul was shot, it was on the television in South Bend. My mother called me and I was at work. I couldn't believe it. He was my big brother and he was gone. We were told or heard that it was an accident. I didn't know what to think. And even to this day I don't know what I did think.
- [11:53]
Narrator
Coming up, 15 year old Eric Witte tells his side of the story.
- [11:59]
Butch Witty
There was skepticism that it didn't make a heck of a lot of sense.
- [12:03]
Narrator
And later heartache hits the witty home again.
- [12:07]
Marcy O'Donnell
A neighbor across the street from where Elaine live indicated that she hadn't seen her for months.
- [12:14]
Eric Witty
That's when I just knew something was wrong. My worst nightmares were coming true.
- [12:28]
Narrator
September 1, 1981. Officers in Beverly Shores, Indiana respond to a 911 call to find 44 year old Paul Whitty dead in his home from a gunshot wound to the head. Indiana state investigators soon arrive at the scene to assist the police force.
- [12:51]
Marie Witty
Marie says that she hadn't been home at the time. She was running some errands and when she walked into the house, Eric was there, her husband was dead. And Eric said, you know, I tripped. The gun went off.
- [13:07]
Detective
It was not a well kept house at all by any stretch of the imagination. It wasn't impossible for what they said to have happened, someone tripping, so you keep an open mind.
- [13:18]
Narrator
Investigators collect the.357 handgun as evidence. Although Marie Witte's mother, Marcie O'Donnell and Marie's youngest son Butch were in the house at the time of the shooting, neither saw it happen.
- [13:37]
Marie Witty
Marcy, the grandmother, said she was in the dining room. She's in the back of the house. And Eric had been at the front of the house walking into this living room where his dad Paul was asleep. Butch tells police that he was in a bedroom when the gunshot fired.
- [13:56]
Narrator
The family's whereabouts isn't all that strikes detectives as odd.
- [14:02]
Detective
It appeared he'd been shot in the top of the head and sort of at a downward angle. And if he had tripped, the bullet would have come in more of a direct angle as opposed to a downward angle. I didn't think it was an accident. I didn't know what it was yet.
- [14:20]
Narrator
Detectives want to question 15 year old Eric, but Marie quickly intervenes.
- [14:27]
Detective
Marie didn't want me talking to Eric. She said, I think we need an attorney. And I said that's your prerogative, that's fine, people do that. But it's a little flag waving there that says this is not normal.
- [14:44]
Narrator
Six days later, investigators sit down with Eric and Marie at their attorney's office. Eric says the night of the accident, his dad wasn't feeling well and had laid down on the sofa for a nap.
- [15:00]
Detective
Eric found a gun upstairs. He brought the gun down from upstairs to show it to his dad. He wanted to talk about it.
- [15:09]
Eric Witty
Paul was familiar with guns. Guns were something that we all grew up with. Paul had guns in the house, and it didn't seem odd to me at all.
- [15:21]
Narrator
Eric tells detectives that this was the first time he saw this particular.357 revolver.
- [15:29]
Detective
His dad was asleep on the couc. He came in the room to talk to his dad about the gun, how it worked. He said he had tripped on the rug and that he had fallen forward and this has happened.
- [15:42]
Butch Witty
The gun accidentally went off and shot him in the head. There was skepticism that it didn't make a heck of a lot of sense. It just happened to hit his dad right in the head with a shot.
- [15:57]
Detective
My question to him was, why are you taking a gun, loaded gun to your dad? And he said that he wanted to see about the safety mechanism or something. I said, did you have the gun cocked? And he said he didn't think so. And that was a big red flag to me because it takes quite a bit of pull to be able to shoot a double action. 357. There is a trigger pull to it. But at that point in time, the attorney stopped me from questioning him.
- [16:27]
Narrator
Unable to question Eric further, investigators turn to Marie. She corroborates her son's story, but refuses to give a formal statement.
- [16:38]
Detective
She would answer a question if I asked her something, but other than that, she didn't volunteer or anything. She tried to be very quiet around me. I told Marie and told the attorney, you'll see me again someday, because he's getting by with this and he'll do it again. So trust me, you're going to see me again.
- [16:57]
Marie Witty
Had Marie been home, maybe there would have been more suspicion, but she wasn't. And that was backed up by her alibi. There were people who had seen her car around. She pulled into the driveway as the gun was going off.
- [17:17]
Narrator
The autopsy findings provide no further insight to the officers. With no evidence or eyewitness testimony to refute Eric's claims, Indiana authorities officially rule Paul's death an accident.
- [17:34]
Detective
That's what we had was, but it was an accident, and that was really all. I was pulled away. For different investigations.
- [17:45]
Narrator
In the coming months, Marie turns her attention to rebuilding her family's lives.
- [17:52]
Detective
There was a small life insurance policy. I say small, like $25,000 or something, but nothing of any real major importance.
- [18:01]
Narrator
But shortly after Paul's death, the land the Witty's house sits on is earmarked to become part of a national park and the family is forced to move out.
- [18:13]
Marcy O'Donnell
Marie's mother, Marcie O'Donnell goes to live with a friend. Marie and her kids get an offer to move in with Paul's stepmother Elaine Witte, on Johnson Road in Trail Creek.
- [18:25]
Narrator
Having been widowed 14 years earlier, Elaine is delighted to welcome family into her home.
- [18:32]
Eric Witty
I don't think she probably ever had any question whatsoever about letting them go there or inviting them.
- [18:44]
Narrator
Over the next three years, the fresh start lifts everyone's spirits.
- [18:50]
Marie Witty
Elaine and Marie seemed to get along really well. They would sit on the porch together, they would share stories. They really seemed kind of like two peas in a pod.
- [19:02]
Narrator
After graduating high school, Eric follows in his father's footsteps and joins the Navy, ultimately relocating to San Diego.
- [19:12]
Eric Witty
I thought it was great he was going into the Navy. Paul had been in the Navy so it seemed like a good thing for him.
- [19:21]
Narrator
15 year old butch stays home with Marie and Elaine to finish school. Three years after Paul's death, the Witte family seems to have settled into a new normal. Until May of 1984 when a concerned citizen contacts the Trail Creek Police Department.
- [19:46]
Marcy O'Donnell
Max Trout was a neighbor across the street from where Elaine lived. Max indicated that he had seen Elaine out in the yard, usually tending to to her flowers. But he hadn't seen her for months.
- [20:02]
Narrator
Sergeant Skip Pierce is dispatched to Elaine's residence to conduct a welfare check.
- [20:09]
Detective
Marie said as far as they were concerned, Elaine Witty had went on an extended vacation. She was traveling alone and was going the west coast and making various stops in between. She had no schedule or anything like that. Nobody could pinpoint where she was.
- [20:28]
Narrator
Coming up, a disappearance raises an alarming red flag.
- [20:34]
Eric Witty
My son didn't get a Valentine's Day card from Grandma Elaine and he didn't get a birthday card from her either. I just knew something had happened to her.
- [20:43]
Narrator
And Marie confronts a ghost from her past.
- [20:47]
Detective
I said, hello Marie, remember me? I'm back. And she almost fainted.
- [20:59]
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- [23:16]
Narrator
Three years after officials declared Paul Witte's shooting death an accident, law enforcement are speaking with Marie Witte again, trying to locate Paul's stepmother, Elaine.
- [23:28]
Marcy O'Donnell
She said Elaine was traveling, that she also was visiting Marie's son, who was in the Navy, and that she didn't know when she would be coming back.
- [23:39]
Narrator
Marie assures Sergeant Pierce that Elaine is fine, but as weeks go by, with no sign of her, friends and family grow concerned.
- [23:53]
Eric Witty
Elaine would either call me or I'd call her. I would say on an average of about once a month, my son didn't get a Valentine's Day card from Grandma Elaine, and he didn't get a birthday card from her either. And then in August, I called and Marie answered the phone and she said that Elaine had gone on a trip and she'd be back and she'd have her call me. That didn't happen. And that's when I called the police in Aurora.
- [24:33]
Marcy O'Donnell
Sergeant Pierce, he had been back again to Murray's house to get more information, again was given the same story about her being on vacation. You have to understand, Trail Creek is a four person department. So at that point, we got ahold of the Indiana State Police.
- [24:52]
Detective
Skip Pierce came to me and said, we got this lady, her name's Malene Witty. She's missing from. No one had seen her. No one had talked to her. No one knew where she was.
- [25:05]
Narrator
It doesn't take Detective Sergeant Boyd long to recognize the name.
- [25:11]
Detective
I began to realize that I had dealt with these people in the past and that these were the same people. Her son had tripped and shot her husband in the head. You know, I think we got a problem.
- [25:25]
Narrator
Sergeant Boyd has long harbored reservations about Paul Whitty's untimely death.
- [25:31]
Detective
It could have well been just an accidental shooting. But again, when the gun went off, it was shot downward into the head, which made it really much more suspicious. If he had tripped, the bullet would have come in more of a direct angle.
- [25:46]
Narrator
On August 14, 1984, three months after Elaine's reported disappearance, state investigators pay Marie an unannounced visit.
- [25:57]
Detective
I said, hello, Marie, Remember me? I'm back. And she almost fainted. I said, marie, I'm here about Elaine Quitty. We're trying to find her and she's. Well, she. She's on a trip. And she stammered and stuttered and I said, can we come in? Sit down.
- [26:18]
Narrator
Marie sticks to her story.
- [26:21]
Butch Witty
Her explanation was that Elaine took off for parts out west.
- [26:27]
Marcy O'Donnell
Marie's statement is that Elaine took a bus on her travels, didn't take her car.
- [26:34]
Detective
She just simply said, if I hear from her, I'll let you know. But my concern is Marie didn't have a clue where she was going to. She's been gone two or three months here, and that's not normal.
- [26:48]
Narrator
When investigators run Elaine's VIN number, they find something else disturbing. Marie had recently sold Elaine's car.
- [26:59]
Butch Witty
Obviously, that didn't make A whole heck of a lot of sense that she would sell her car if she was planning on coming back.
- [27:09]
Narrator
Investigators try to locate Elaine themselves, but make little headway.
- [27:15]
Marcy O'Donnell
The other thing they looked at at the time were phone records, people who called in phone numbers, those kind of things.
- [27:21]
Butch Witty
There was no long distance calls coming in from Elaine that would have substantiated that she was traveling anywhere.
- [27:28]
Marcy O'Donnell
We tried to track her through the bus system, but there was no way to do it. Because you purchase a ticket, you don't have to register or sign for it or anything. El we were concerned, but you have to have probable cause to believe a crime's been committed. We didn't have that yet.
- [27:48]
Narrator
Authorities return to the home to speak with Marie, only she's not there. So authorities contact her mother, Marcie O'Donnell.
- [27:59]
Detective
I asked her where Marie was. Where's Marie staying now? She said, well, she and Butch are going out to California and Sierra.
- [28:08]
Narrator
With Marie and her family 2000 miles away. Detectives attack from a different angle.
- [28:14]
Marcy O'Donnell
We had subpoenaed Elaine's bank accounts.
- [28:18]
Butch Witty
That was probably the best way to try to find somebody if they're gone and see where they're at when they're taking the money out of the bank. Bank accounts showed large withdrawals in a period of time from the beginning of January up until the May or June of 1984. She had Social Security checks that were coming in on a monthly basis, and they were still being cashed locally.
- [28:42]
Narrator
But no one has seen Elaine Witte in her hometown since January, nearly eight months earlier.
- [28:50]
Marcy O'Donnell
Many of the withdrawal slips were signed in the name of Elaine Witte.
- [28:57]
Eric Witty
They asked me to look at a signature on a check, and whether I thought it was hers or not, I did not believe that the signature was hers.
- [29:11]
Butch Witty
Any kind of issues involving Social Security funds are investigated by the treasury department. So that's how the federal law enforcement gets involved. It went from a missing persons to something more serious. Federal authorities were notified that the family left unannounced in the middle of an investigation of a missing person. And so that kind of put everybody on high alert.
- [29:38]
Narrator
As more time passes with no sign of Elaine, her family begins to suspect the worst.
- [29:45]
Eric Witty
My worst nightmares were coming true.
- [29:50]
Detective
From my standpoint as an investigator, there was no question in my mind that Elaine was not with us anymore, that she was gone.
- [30:00]
Narrator
Investigators still lack sufficient evidence for an arrest, but they keep in contact with Marie's mother, Marcy.
- [30:08]
Detective
Marcy appears to be a very nice older lady. What I want to do is put pressure on Marcy. You can tell that she knew more. I kept contact with her and the more I talked to her, the more I could get from her. And I finally said, what's going on? And I said, I'll go after anyone who was involved in this whole thing and I'll lock them up.
- [30:32]
Narrator
The tactic works and Marcy finally buckles under the pressure. On October 26, 1984, she reveals what really happened to Elaine.
- [30:45]
Detective
It was on a Friday. I called and talked to her and she said, boyd, Elaine's dead. And I said, okay, I'll be right over.
- [30:57]
Marcy O'Donnell
Marie's mother said that she had been told that Butch had accidentally shot and killed Elaine with a crossbow.
- [31:09]
Detective
I said, well, where's she at? Where's the body? She says, there is nobody. She said, we've got rid of the body.
- [31:20]
Narrator
Coming up, the hunt for Marie and her sons intensifies.
- [31:26]
Butch Witty
They were very close to going across the border.
- [31:29]
Narrator
And the details of Elaine's murder grow more horrifying.
- [31:34]
Marcy O'Donnell
They were told this was an accident. Accident.
- [31:37]
Butch Witty
We pulled out floorboards, wallboards, to see if we could find any blood.
- [31:51]
Narrator
For the second time in three years, an untimely death has claimed a member of the Witty family. Marie's mother tells detectives that Elaine Witty was killed months earlier in January of 1984.
- [32:08]
Marie Witty
The story that was given to police was that Butch, Elaine's 15 year old grandson, had a crossbow. He accidentally fired the crossbow and fatally struck Elaine. It had to have struck them as a little bit odd.
- [32:26]
Detective
Marie Woody's mother, Marcy O'Donnell was saying Marie and Butch had got rid of the body, had cut it up and had dismembered it and got rid of the body.
- [32:37]
Marcy O'Donnell
It was Marie's idea. She didn't want to supposedly involve Butch in another investigation like Eric had to go through with the father.
- [32:50]
Narrator
For detectives, it seems too much of a coincidence, especially when there's money missing.
- [32:59]
Marcy O'Donnell
Elaine Witty's Social Security checks were being deposited into her account in Trail Creek when Marie was there. Subsequently, they were transferred to a California location.
- [33:11]
Detective
Marcy O'Donnell told us that Marie was writing these checks and authoring the checks and copying Elaine's signature.
- [33:22]
Narrator
Federal authorities begin monitoring banks in California while Indiana authorities execute a search warrant at Elaine Witty's home on November 3, 1984.
- [33:34]
Butch Witty
We pulled out floorboards, wallboards to see if we could find any blood, anything like that.
- [33:41]
Detective
We didn't find Dink. We got some questionable hairs. We'll send them into lab and see what we can find. Is that. But really we got nothing else.
- [33:51]
Narrator
With the search Warrant yielding no results, Indiana detectives fly to California to track down Marie. First, they visit Eric at the naval base in San Diego. He agrees to talk to detectives.
- [34:07]
Marcy O'Donnell
Sergeant Pierce and Sergeant Boyd went to California to talk to Eric and he stuck to the same story about Elaine supposedly vacationing.
- [34:23]
Narrator
Investigators believe Eric knows more than he's letting on and they confront him with Marcy's confession.
- [34:31]
Marcy O'Donnell
I have worked a number of murder cases with Sergeant Boyd and I've learned they want to confess. They want to tell you what they did because they know it's wrong.
- [34:44]
Narrator
Feeling the pressure, Eric finally breaks down and admits several months ago his mother called him about a family emergency.
- [34:56]
Marcy O'Donnell
Eric told us he was informed that Butch had accidentally killed Elaine with a crossbow. Back in Indiana, Marie told Eric it was an accident and she needed help. Eric said he told her to freeze the body until he could come home.
- [35:15]
Narrator
Two months later, Eric says he returned home to Indiana.
- [35:20]
Marcy O'Donnell
Eric said he went home with his Navy buddy, Doug Menkel. Marie said this was an accident, but he never saw the body.
- [35:30]
Narrator
When asked what happened to Elaine's remains, Eric is evasive. But investigators keep up the pressure.
- [35:38]
Marcy O'Donnell
Eventually, he admits he and Doug Menkel in fact took the cooler with portions of the body, bags of flesh or bones. When he went to San Diego and got rid of it out there, it was deposited in the San Diego Dome.
- [35:56]
Detective
It is a mammoth landfill for the entire city of San Diego. And that's where all the refuse comes in.
- [36:05]
Marcy O'Donnell
It was huge and we'd never find it based on how big that place was.
- [36:13]
Narrator
After investigators hear Eric's story, they ramp up efforts to locate Marie and Butch. The very next day, on November 7, 1984, federal authorities spring into action when one of Elaine, Elaine Witty's Social Security checks is used in Chula Vista, California, just north of Tijuana, Mexico.
- [36:36]
Butch Witty
When they found them, they were very close to going across the border.
- [36:41]
Marcy O'Donnell
Marie and Butch were arrested in Chula Vista by the feds for cashing Elaine Social Security checks.
- [36:51]
Narrator
All three are charged with forgery. But Marie has no interest in cooperating with authorities. Investigators confront 15 year old butch about his older brother's allegations.
- [37:09]
Detective
That's when Butch confessed everything to me.
- [37:13]
Marcy O'Donnell
He was pretty forthcoming as far as what had happened, what he had done. Maria was telling him that she had taken money from Elaine and Elaine knew about it and she was going to again put him on the street. They wouldn't have anywhere to live. His mother told him he needed to kill his grandmother to keep that from happening.
- [37:38]
Narrator
According to Butch, the events leading up to Elaine's death had been building for nearly six months.
- [37:46]
Detective
They had tried to kill her by first giving her drugs and keeping her in a room that was cold with the windows open, hoping that she would die naturally.
- [37:59]
Narrator
When that didn't work, Butch says his mother demanded his cooperation.
- [38:04]
Marie Witty
Marie says it has to happen now. She drugged Elaine with valium and Elaine was asleep in her bed. And the time was now. And Butch was told he didn't have a choice beyond whether he strangled or shot her with a crossbow. Butch chose the crossbow method, went into Elaine's bedroom and fired, and he killed his grandmother.
- [38:39]
Butch Witty
After Butch killed her with the crossbow, they put her body in a freezer in the downstairs, and then began the process of using an electric chainsaw to dismember her. It took months of her going in and out of the freezer and slowly being cut up and disposed of. It was horrific.
- [39:02]
Marcy O'Donnell
That's where Marcy O'Donnell also got involved in helping dispose of the body.
- [39:08]
Butch Witty
They were able basically to get rid of most of the body, except for, I believe, the skull, hip bones, some of the larger portions. So that's what they put in a cooler and took out with them to California. That went into landfill.
- [39:24]
Marcy O'Donnell
Butch had a lot of guilt for what happened. He obviously, when he confessed, I think he felt relieved.
- [39:34]
Butch Witty
Butch was 15 at the time. He was the one that had to cut her up. I can't even imagine how badly that would have screwed somebody up like that.
- [39:46]
Narrator
Based on Butch's confession, he and his mother are charged with Elaine's murder and conspiracy to commit murder. Eric Witte and Marcy O'Donnell are also charged with conspiracy to to commit murder. Coming up, the Witty's youngest son has one last horror story to share with investigators.
- [40:12]
Marcy O'Donnell
He wanted to talk about the murder of his dad.
- [40:16]
Narrator
And two impressionable teens finally come to grips with their mother's murderous manipulations.
- [40:24]
Marcy O'Donnell
She did whatever she, she had to do to basically satisfy her greed.
- [40:39]
Narrator
In November of 1984, 15 year old John, aka Butch Whitty admitted to killing his 74 year old grandmother, Elaine Witty. Butch said that he committed the murder at the behest of his mother, Hilma Marie Witty.
- [40:59]
Detective
Elaine was on to the fact that Marie was forging her checks.
- [41:05]
Narrator
Marie and her children are immediately extradited back to Indiana. But less than a week after Butch's shocking confession, he reaches out to investigators again.
- [41:18]
Marcy O'Donnell
He wanted to talk about the murder of his dad. He gave us a story about Eric and that Marie had also manipulated Eric into killing Paul and that it wasn't an accident.
- [41:32]
Narrator
Butch tells authorities that much like his grandmother's murder, Paul's murder was all Marie's idea.
- [41:41]
Marcy O'Donnell
Marie said that he had to kill his dad because she was suffering abuse by him. Also, he was threatening divorce. And if they went through a divorce, they'd be out in the street. He wouldn't have anywhere to go first.
- [41:56]
Detective
They started out giving him rat poison. He gets sick and he goes to hospital. Of course he goes to the hospital. He gets better. So then they went and got Arsenit of lead. That just made him have an awful headache and he'd sleep on the couch.
- [42:11]
Narrator
Finally, on September 1, 1981, Marie said it was now or never.
- [42:19]
Detective
She said, you got to do it now. Eric was given a choice. Either strangle him or to shoot him.
- [42:26]
Marie Witty
Marie says, I'm going to leave, and when I come back to this house, he needs to be dead. And if he's not, I'm going to drive away. And you will be here with your brother. This will be your life. You were choosing your father over me. He's standing there over his sleeping father, trying to muster up the ability to pull the trigger. And then he sees headlights turning into the driveway.
- [42:57]
Detective
He had to do it now because Mom's going to really be mad now when she comes home. And he didn't do it. And that's when he took the gun and shot his dad.
- [43:11]
Marcy O'Donnell
When Marie walked inside, she told everyone to say it was an accident, even Marcy, her mother, and aligned it so that they all were telling and looked like they were telling the truth.
- [43:24]
Butch Witty
They interviewed Eric, and he was able to corroborate that statement by butchering Eric's.
- [43:32]
Narrator
Corroboration of Butch's confession gives investigators what they need to charge Eric and Marie Witty with Paul's murder. In time, Butch and Eric agree to testify against their mother in exchange for a plea deal.
- [43:49]
Marcy O'Donnell
Eric and Butch received a sentence of 20 years for voluntary manslaughter. Nobody likes pleogramming, but it's part of the process. We didn't have a body, so we had to put every everybody's story together and align it.
- [44:06]
Narrator
At Marie Witty's murder trials in 1985 and 1986, prosecutors argue money drove Marie's actions. She complained incessantly about Paul. Nothing made him happy, and he had a horrible temper.
- [44:26]
Eric Witty
This conversation had gravitated to divorce. And 27th of August, Paul said he was going to file for divorce. And September he was dead.
- [44:42]
Marcy O'Donnell
She got not only a Social Security, but she got his pension. The only way she was going to get it is not through divorce, but if he in fact was killed, the same with Elaine. She wanted her Social Security and she wanted all her savings.
- [45:00]
Butch Witty
She was able to manipulate her two children to do some pretty horrific things.
- [45:09]
Narrator
But in the end, Marie's hold over her children has its limits.
- [45:14]
Butch Witty
Butch's testimony was very compelling and very believable. And then you had it corroborated by his brother Eric. They were both testifying against their mother. So I think that established a pretty high degree of credibility for the jury.
- [45:30]
Narrator
Marie is convicted of murder and conspiracy to commit murder, receiving 90 years in prison for the deaths of Paul and Elaine Witty. She receives an additional 10 years for forging and cashing Elaine's Social Security checks.
- [45:50]
Butch Witty
What struck me the most, it was Marie Whitty. And just through the process of having both of her sons testify, Marcy O'Donnell testified against her. Not one sign of emotion at any point in time. And then after the guilty verdict, not one shed of emotion. Nothing.
- [46:10]
Eric Witty
Anybody who would do that must have been a sociopath. That's it. Sociopath.
- [46:20]
Advertiser
Marie's mother, Marcy O'Donnell, pled guilty to assisting a criminal and was sentenced to six years in prison. She died after her release. Eric's friend Doug Menkel was sentenced for a class A misdemeanor and was released to the US Navy. Eric and John David. David Witte were released from prison in 1996. John died in 2008. He was 39 years old. Eric died in 2022. He was 56 years old. Hilma Marie Witte is serving her sentence at the Indiana Women's Prison. Her earliest possible Release date is October 2026. At 24, I lost my narrative, or rather it was stolen from me. And the Monica Lewinsky that my friends and family, family knew was usurped by false narratives, callous jokes, and politics. I would define reclaiming as to take back what was yours. Something you possess is lost or stolen, and ultimately you triumph in finding it again. So I think listeners can expect me to be chatting with folks both recognizable and unrecognizable names about the way that people have navigated roads to triumph. My hope is that people will finish an episode of Reclaiming and feel like they filled their tank up, they connected with the people that I'm talking to, and leave with maybe some nuggets that help them feel a little more hopeful. Follow Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Reclaiming early and ad free right now by joining Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts.