← So Money with Farnoosh Torabi
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Hey friend, it's Farnush. Would you love to strengthen your finances as we head into the New year? You want to have me in your corner ready to answer your financial questions? I'm thrilled to invite you to join my so Money Members Club for a limited time. You can join for free. Go to somoneymembers.com use the code somoneybf2024 to enjoy your first month free somoneymembers.com and use the code somoneybf 2024 to get your first month absolutely free.
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A
So money episode 1747 reasonably happy and Finding Humor and Meaning in Money with Paul Olinger.
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You're listening to so Money with award winning money guru Farnoosh Turabi. Each day get a 30 minute dose of financial inspiration from the world's top business minds, authors, influencers and from Farnoosh yourself. Looking for ways to save on gas or double your double coupons. Sorry, you're in the wrong place. Seeking profound ways to live a richer, happier life. Welcome to SO money. When we're broke and we make additional money, that additional money relieves real pain. It gives us the opportunity to pay $20 for Novocaine, something that would be the best $20 you could invest in anything, right? But as you climb the economic ladder and you start buying luxuries, those things don't really relieve pain so much as they do just add a new layer of comfort to your life.
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A
Welcome to so Money, everybody. I'm Farnoosh Turabi. Before we bring on today's guest, I want to take a minute to explain some phenomenon that's happened on this podcast over the last few days. We are trying to get a handle on it. Some of you have reached out about it. Thank you. But apparently there are some advertisements that are being dynamically inserted into the show that are not congruent with my beliefs or the values that we uplift on this show. These were not handpicked ads. Just to give you a little behind the scenes of how ads work around here, there are some sponsorships that I vet and then I will read those ads for our audience. In some other cases, there are ads that get dynamically inserted. They're not read by me. Our team does go through a process of reviewing the different ad categories and blocking some, for example, ones that are promoting firearms. Or there are ads that I've blocked off that pertain to sensitive topics like politics, religion. Even with these ad blockers, there have been some ads that have filtered their way through because they get creative with how they are categorized. All this to say we are being vigilant about this and I would love to hear from you. If you hear something wherever you're hearing this podcast, an ad that seems a little questionable given the nature of this show, please let me know. You can email me Farnooshmoneypodcast.com it's worth mentioning that this didn't start until after the election. I'm not going to draw conclusions, but here we are. And as we get a handle on this, I appreciate your patience and your understanding on today's show. I'm thrilled to welcome back one of our favorite voices in the world of money and humor, Paul Olinger. Paul is a comedian and an author and he has a unique take on wealth and happiness that's made him a standout in the finance space. He's here to talk about his latest book of essays called Reasonably Happy, a collection that balances sharp wit with deep reflections on money, purpose and what it means to live a meaningful life. From Paul's first beat up car that was a what he calls an unintended announcement of his financial struggles to exploring the Danish approach to happiness. Paul's got insights that are both relatable and thought provoking. He shares the challenges he faced in writing this book, his first book, including essays that did not make the cut, and what it's been like to move his family from Georgia to New York recently, where he's gaining fresh perspective on money, lifestyle, and culture. Here's Paul Olinger. Our favorite funny finance guy is back on so Money. Paul Olinger, welcome.
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Hi, Farnoosh.
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Hi, Paul. Tell us where you're at, because since we last spoke, we're going to talk about your new book, but you're also in a new location.
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I am. My wife and I relocated ourselves and our children and our two French bulldogs who are sitting behind me because she's in Phoenix right now. We moved to the Upper west side of Manhattan because we are hopeless romantics who make terrible financial decisions.
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A
Well, that's my old hood. Where you don't have to tell me your coordinates in case we have stock.
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B
Or I'll tell you that we patronize the West 86th street subway station.
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A
Yes. Okay. So I was the West 79th street subway station, and then I also lived on 90th for a while. Tim Gunn lived in our building. We shared an elevator with Tim Gunn. That was fun. That was always fun.
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B
I bet you did. You feel pressure to be, like, dressed up all the time when Tim Gunn always.
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A
Although I will say he was always dressed. He was. 90% of the time. He was dressed to the nines. But occ. We would see him in his weekend gear, which was usually a white T shirt and white shorts and white tennis shoes.
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B
This is what our friends told us about choosing west versus Eastside. He said, ask your wife if she wants to put her makeup on to walk the dog.
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A
Oh.
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And so. And that would be the stereotypical east side dog walker.
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Well, I would also wonder, I would also ask, do you want to ever be able to walk to a grocery store or take a subway somewhere? Because the east side is vast and I feel like it's a food desert for groceries and commuting wise on the west side, you have so many. So many options.
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Yeah, you can buy like, $90 cookies on the east side. Well, yeah, that's actual food.
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No, you can't get, like, broccoli and, you know, whatever. Box of. Box of Cheerios. More on that. Maybe later. I'm so. I'm so, like, impressed with this move that you have done in midlife to New York. I kind of want to go back to Brooklyn as a retiree at some point. I think there's a lot to benefit from living in the city. But you mentioned you're sort of, like, bad with money, and I don't think that's true.
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We're relatively prudent people. But what I mean is there's really, you know, if you view this kind of life choice through the lens of finances, you would never do this because everything in Manhattan is two to three times as expensive, potentially.
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But also, let's be honest, you are pursuing a comedy career. You are, you have. You're a comedy careerist. And New York is great for that.
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It is, it is. And so, you know, the thought was, it was multi variable, multivariate. The thought was, if I really want to find out what I'm capable of as a comedian, the place to do that is New York or la. And I think that's true. However, I think the venue to really dominate in these days is the social media sphere. And so regardless of where you live, if you're killing it on Facebook, sorry, if you're killing it on Instagram or TikTok, clubs will book you because you can bring people to your shows.
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Exactly.
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So I think it's a little bit. The New York centric comedy thing is a little bit dated, but still true. And the best comics in the country live here or LA for the most part, or they did live here, then they moved back home once they achieved that level of. Like, Nate Bargetzi lives in Nashville, but he lived in Manhattan or he lived in the New York area for eight or nine years and that's where he really cut his teeth.
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Yeah. All right. Reasonably happy. This is the title of your book of essays, A collection of essays, hilarious blend of humor and financial reflections. You go through the ages. I wanted to just start with a question about the inspiration for this type of book too. Right. You didn't want to write like a How to Money book. That is the traditional book, like chapter one, how to Budget. Chapter two, how to Buy a Car. You really took us through your life as a lens through which you share some profound stuff about money, you know, and we'll get into it. But what, what drew you to this project?
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Well, the truth of the matter is that I've submitted. I don't want to brag, Farnous, but I've had manuscripts rejected by the best publishers in all of North America. And so I wrote a manuscript about money. It was about my story of growing up middle class and always wanting to make money, always aspiring to make money, and then making it as an early employee at Facebook and sort of how weird that experience was. And I think we didn't do, you know, a book is a product and we didn't do a good enough job of representing the product and why it would be a compelling thing for people to buy and so, and I spent years on this project and some of the topics that are addressed in that manuscript showed up in this book of essays. But what I really decided a few years ago was like, I don't, I can't wait for the publishing industry to catch up with me. I'm just going to write every week or as much as I can and start putting out these things in the form of sub 1000 word essays. And so I started doing that on medium a few years ago and then moved to substack probably two years ago. And if you keep writing for a decade, you look back and go, oh, I've got a lot here. And so this book is a collection of 46 of my favorite essays from the last decade. And they are reflections on money, success, and where we find fulfillment in life. And those are often in places we don't expect to find them.
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A
How did you choose which 46 to share? I'm sure there were 460.
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B
There were 47. No, I'm just kidding. You know, you're a writer. You know, the 46 are probably, are disproportionately recent. And that the reason for that is because I've gotten better as a writer. You know, I mean, over the last however many years you've been writing, haven't you gotten better? Haven't you become. Hasn't. Hasn't the facility as a writer improved over time? And what you thought was good 10 years ago, you'd look at and go, gosh, I'm just, I'm just better than this now.
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Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah. So it's a little bit. The process of elimination is kind of based on the quality of the work, but I think too, you do a nice job of. Although you say they're recent, but the stories aren't like Paul from 1999. And forward, you know, you go all the way back. Your first story, your first essay is called In Money, Pain and New Cars. And you talk about your first experience buying a car. Tell us about that experience and why you wanted to include that as your first opening to the book.
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B
Well, I opened the book with a story about the first time I got a cavity filled. And this will give you some insight into the household where I was raised. My father, who was the kindest gentleman, most humble, true man I've ever known, took me to get my cavity filled when I was 11 years old. And right before I walked into the dentist's office, he said, wait a second, don't get the Novocaine. It's $20 and so my father was such a non materialistic person that he might have had trouble seeing why other people might need little luxuries, like, I don't know, anesthesia. And so that was the frugality of the household that I was raised in. Six kids, we had all we needed, but it was just a pretty spartan life. And so I always fantasized about having luxury goods. And so what I learned over time is that we all know the study about there's no additional happiness beyond $75,000 a year. And whether that's true or not, we can think about it as well. What happens to us as money? What happens to the ability of money to make us happier as we climb the economic ladder? And so I view that theory through the lens of cars in this essay. And what I want to say is that, or what I'm trying to point out is that, you know, as we make, as we're, when we're broke and we make additional money, that additional money relieves real pain. It gives us the opportunity to pay $20 for Novocaine, something that would be the best $20 you could invest in anything. Right. But as you climb the economic ladder, you know, and you start buying luxuries, those things don't really relieve pain so much as they do just add a new layer of comfort to your life.
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A
Yeah. It gets rid of friction.
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B
Yeah. And it's, and it's good, but it's not like. And the lens of, you know, I just bought a new. I think I had traded in my Tesla for a Mercedes. And I'm very fortunate. I want to say that I'm very fortunate to be privileged. I've been able to buy, you know, nice luxury cars since I was in my mid-30s when I started making money in the digital media business. So I don't ever want to forget that because, but that Mercedes purchase wasn't anything as ecstatic as the purchase I made when I replaced my beater Honda in Memphis, Tennessee, that didn't have air conditioning and only started once in a while with a 1994 Saturn SL2, which was, you know, technically like a moped with a, you know, like, like with like a steering wheel. You know, it's, it's, it's, it's a tin can with a tiny engine. And, but, but you know what, it was glorious because I got air conditioning for the first time as a 25 year old. And it changed my life. When you go out to your car every morning and, you know, and try to start it and you don't know if it'll start. And when you sweating through, you know, you're just sweating bullets on a date with some girl who's like this loser doesn't even have air conditioning in your car. Even a Saturn SL2 feels like a Rolls Royce.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Whereas trading a Tesla in for a Mercedes is just one kind of really good car for another slightly newer car.
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Americans in their cars. Right. It's, it's very cultural here where you write that a car is often an outward sign of how its owner's life is going. And you write that as a tee up to a joke about how like your Honda was sort of like it did not enhance your dating life back then, but it was a good.
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It was. My financial life was a wreck back then. And the car was an outward symbol thereof.
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The person with a Mercedes might be taking out like a 15% loan for that and you know, not has other bills stacking up. So it's hard to know anymore what's really the story.
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B
This is true. And you know, there have been studies that people in luxury cars are more rude and less conscientious to their other drivers. And the author, I can't remember who it was, some guy at University of California, I think, Paul Piff, maybe he concluded that rich people are more selfish drivers. Well, I don't think the ownership of luxury cars or the driving of a luxury car is necessarily proof that somebody has more money. It's proof that they prioritize driving a new car, a nicer car, whatever they have to do to get in into it.
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A
Yeah. Why do you call the book Reasonably Happy as opposed to Crazy? Ridiculously, Ridiculously happy. Is it enough to be reasonably Happy? Should that be the new goalpost?
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So I believe so. As you know, I started my podcast five years ago and it's called Crazy Money.
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Right.
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And my partner at the time, Mike Carano, and I, we just picked that name. He was my producer. It's still a good friend. We just picked it because we couldn't think of anything else. But I've been writing these essays about money and happiness and we just like let's call it Crazy Money and we'll find something better later. And of course, we never changed the name, even though Crazy Money sounds like some podcast about how to make millions in real estate while you sleep or like it's some investing show or something like that. And it's never been about that. It's never been about finding the lowest rate credit card or anything like that. It's never been a personal finance show. It's been about how to find things in life that are going to be true sources of contentment and an analysis of money that concludes that money is only one part of a happy life. And so when it came time to rebrand, I thought of all different kinds of names, like, now what or all kinds of things.
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A
Is this it?
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Is that all those kinds of things. And so what you find is. It's very difficult with 5 million plus podcasts, it's very difficult to find a name that hasn't already been taken. We were going to take SO money, but that one was taken as well.
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A
Someone has your SO money.
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Yeah, well, that's right.
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So that's my podcast. Yeah.
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Yeah. So, anyway, so I was thinking about. What am I trying to say? What I'm trying to say is that if you think that money or fame or some exogenous variable that has eluded you in life is going to make you happy, then you're deluding yourself. Like, happiness starts from within and that it's a choice almost as much as it is, you know, a happenstance. And so. And the fact of the matter is, no matter how much you have, we've seen the studies, you're always going to want more. And so even very, very wealthy people are still wanting. And so we all have to say, I'm going to decide to be happy. I'm going to decide to be satisfied with the things that I have. And if I'm lacking something else, I'll work hard to go get it or I'll be okay without it. And that what reasonably happy says to me is a choice of serenity in life, that. A choice that, like, even though there's a lot of things that can be annoying, even when everything is arguably perfect in your life, you just have to accept being reasonably happy. And you can see this sort of, like, resigned look on my face that my graphic designer chose to represent what that is. And it starts with me being kind of a grump. I've always been kind of a grump. I've always been. In eighth grade, my classmates voted me most school spirit and biggest complainer. So I've got these two sides of my personality where I really do care, and yet I'm kind of a curmudgeon at heart. But I choose to, despite my curmudgeonness, I choose to say that everything's okay and that being reasonably happy is a good goal and that we shouldn't sit there and try to believe that we're going to be ecstatic every moment of every day. And if we're not, then there's something that's missing in life and we either need to go to dedicate our life to getting it or blame the world for not providing it to us.
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A
Coming up, we're going to explore what financial values we can learn from the Danes and Paul talks about the dilemma of being so rich that you don't have to work. That's a problem. Stay tuned. Have you ever experienced a dry, itchy scalp? Or ever wondered why your color isn't lasting as long as your hairdresser promised? I'm raising my hand. Well, unfiltered mineral filled water could be the reason why. Did you know hard water is a leading cause of damaged hair and dry, irritated skin? And that about 85% of the United States uses hard water filled with dissolved minerals and added chlorine? That's where Canopy's filtered showerheads come in. Canopy, known for their beauty hacks and reimagined humidifier, has revolutionized the filtered showerhead space with not one filtered showerhead, but a handheld version as well. Dermatologists recommended this unique three stage filtration system greatly reduces contaminants and odors in your shower water, leaving you with healthy hair and glowing skin. Best of all, the Canopy's filtered shower heads are hassle free, installation is a breeze, and its unique filter replacement feature allows for seamless filter changes unlike any others on the market. Go to GetCanopy Co to save $25 on your Canopy filtered showerhead, purchased today with Canopy's hassle free filter subscription. Even better, my listeners can use the code somoney at checkout to save an additional 10% off your canopy purchase. Hurry. Your hair and skin will thank you. Imagine having a super smart and reliable virtual friend to help you guide your finances well besides me. That's exactly what you get with Claude, the AI assistant from Anthropic, designed to help amplify your potential. Whether you're tackling your finances alone or working with a team, Claude is there to help. Need to analyze financial data, track expenses, or make a plan to pay off debt? Claude's advanced reasoning capabilities are perfect for breaking down complex charts, forecasting savings goals, and even generating custom tools to streamline your financial models. Plus, Claud offers top tier security and reliability, ensuring your sensitive financial information is always protected. Trust it to help you make the best decisions with the peace of mind of knowing your data is safe, ready to take control of your financial future. Visit Claude AI today and see how Claude can help you exceed your goals. Here's something I'm really looking forward to as the weather turns cooler. Penn State football games, Pumpkin spice lattes. Yeah, I said it. And slipping into a cozy sweater from Qu Quince is known for their Mongolian cashmere sweaters from $50. And it's not just that all Quince Items are priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. That includes beautiful leather jackets, cotton cardigans, soft denim and so much more. How are they able to do that? By partnering directly with top factories and cutting out the cost of the middleman which passes the savings on to us. I just did a huge Quint haul because I'm obsessed with their cropped button down cardigans. Perfect to go with my high waisted jeans. They fit perfectly and look like a million bucks and I only spent 49. Get cozy in Quince's high quality wardrobe essentials go to quince.com so money for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q U I N C E dot com so money to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com Sew money.
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- [23:27]
A
Yeah, we are living in a world where the happiness industrial complex, you know, totally seriously, it's like if you're not in it, if you're not in this club, you're doing it wrong. That being said, you do dedicate a whole essay to the Danes and the Danish approach to happiness. The happiest country in the world, Denmark. How do the Danes use their money to? What's their relationship with money as it pertains to their happiness? And what aspects of their culture do you think we can realistically adopt? I hate when people compare us to Europeans sometimes because I'm like, it's not. It's like apples and oranges. I mean, you know, I don't want to get into that, but it's just really not fair sometimes to feel make yourself feel bad because you're not completely living like a Parisian in Nebraska.
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B
Right. Well, so this came from an interview I did with Mike Viking W I K I N G who is the author of a book called A Little Book, the Little Book of Hygge, which is roughly translated as Good Warm feeling or a good warm life. And I apologize to your Danish listeners for both the horrible mispronunciation and probably an over generalization of the term. But this book became it's the Danish Book of Happy Living or whatever. I don't have the book with me right in front of me. But it's basically like why do the Danes and other Scandinavian countries always come out at the top of those world happiness surveys that are done every year? And his theory is that they make choices to optimize quality of life over quantity of possessions, maximization of income or things like that. So what does that mean? It means they work reasonable hours, that they have a strong social safety net. And we're not going to get political, but we'll talk a little bit about why he believes that is helpful. Because if you're not worried, if you have the government paying for all your medicine, he believes that people aren't existentially scared when they have to go to the doctor because they don't have to. They don't know if it's going to be a fifteen hundred dollar or fifteen thousand dollar bill when they go see the doctor and that's. That makes them feel safe. If you get fired from your job, there is some income there provided by the government and it's very difficult to fire people from their job. And so there's just more of a social safety net that he believes saves people from financial existential threats. Also that they prioritize things like the outdoors, like exercise. And when they get together they do it right. They put out a big smorgasbord of meats and cheeses and soups, they light a fire, they light candles. And so they really focus on atmosphere and togetherness. And that's what those are. Some of the bullet points in the why Danes are happier than us Americans who work 80 hours a week, we commute whatever, on average 90 minutes a day. And these things are things that lead us away from happiness as opposed to toward them.
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A
You know, you read about Norway as the richest country in the world. Would they also be clumped into this happiness group which they're sort of geographically close? I don't know. And so I just wonder what, what's going on there? Like they seem to have figured it all out, like how to be rich and happy.
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B
Well, if you have, if you have tons of oil under your land and.
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A
You have a very, like Saudi Arabia.
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B
I don't know, but you have a very small population, homogeneous, which is the case in Saudi Arabia, which is a. Which has been governed by an oppressive, you know, regime for a long time. It's different than. I would guess that Norway is probably social democratic or something like socialist democratic or something like that, but they also have a very small population relative to their resources. We'll see what happens over the next few decades as these countries, as immigration changes the nature of the population of those countries. It'll be interesting to see if that changes.
- [27:30]
A
Yeah. So last time you were on the show, I think at least a couple times, and you've discussed it already, just your earlier years at Facebook and benefiting from the tech media boom and cashing out, and then from there figuring sort of like what's going to be next for Paul. And you've done really well. You have found a lot of ambition, you've pursued greatness. But you write about how having the ability not to work, which was sort of your case, you could have maybe not worked. It distorts your relationship with work. So what's your relationship with work today? And also money? How have you evolved since Facebook from a money perspective?
- [28:15]
B
I was very fortunate to be an early employee at Facebook. I did have the right skills and the right resume at the right time, but nobody deserves the sweepstakes windfall that many of us received. And so I have had the option to not work for, I don't know, 12 years now or something like that. And my relationship with work is. And the article you mentioned is one of the points of that article is just because you can walk away from work doesn't mean that you need to do it in a way that expresses a lack of appreciation for work. That when you have FU money, that doesn't mean you should say it to your boss, to your spouse, to your old enemies. And people have told me that real wealth doesn't change who you are, it just amplifies who you are. And so understanding that, that it's a good thing to get your values straight, to be really tight on who you are and what you want before the money comes. So that was one lesson. My relationship to work today is that for a few years after I left Facebook, I didn't really. I had done comedy for two years full time in Los Angeles before I started at Facebook, and it was always my dream to do comedy since business school. I had told jokes at a talent show one night and I got bit by the comedy bug and I was like, oh, my gosh, what is this? I borrowed the equivalent of $150,000 in today's money to go to business school to find out I want to be a stand up comedian. That's, that's weird. Yeah, but I always wanted to do it. And so after Facebook, I just kind of goofed off for a few years. I'd been in, I was moved back to Atlanta, my hometown, and I didn't know where to start. I was afraid of failing at comedy again. But at a certain point I realized that if you have the option to do anything and you're not chasing your dream, to me that's a dereliction of opportunity. And so I was like, okay, I don't know where this is going to go, but I'm going to start going to open mics, I'm going to write every day and see what happens. And you know, when you start doing that, as I mentioned up top, like over a decade, you get better and your body of work, you build up a body of work and you build up contacts in the industry. And so, and so my work today is a choice. I, I get to do standup comedy because I can't think of anything better to do every day. I can't think of anything I'd rather do than write, do stand up, do the podcast, and do some corporate speaking. All those things together are, they're kind of the four prongs of the things I do, and it's a total blast. And interestingly, the speaking thing is really starting to happen and it funds a lot of the expenses, the non trivial expenses of producing a podcast that you know very well.
- [31:02]
A
Tell us an economic secret of the financials of comedy. Like I, you know, I mean, what.
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B
Do you want to know?
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A
Well, so for example, and maybe you can corroborate. I have a friend who's, who's a standup comedian and she says there's a lot of money in like corporate gigs or private events.
- [31:20]
B
Yes.
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A
How do you get those? And what are we, how much money are we talking about?
- [31:24]
B
I mean, it all depends. You know, they talk about the long, the head and the tail of distribution of things. And, and if you think about the distribution of comedians based on how much money they earn every year, it is the ugliest, steepest head and the longest, ugliest tail you've ever seen in your life. You know, say there's, say there's a thousand comedians in New York City, like 10% of them are making a living doing comedy. Yes. And then the rest of them are making 30 bucks a show. And so it is a winner take all industry where the guys at the top and the women at the top are getting 10 or 20 million dollars for a Netflix special and everybody else is paying for their own special to get it on YouTube so they have a shot of being discovered by the Netflixes of the world and building a social media following, as I was saying before, so that they can create their own economic autonomy. What's interesting is that social media has democratized it a little bit. Most powerful entity in comedy today isn't the person who books the Tonight Show. Hi, Michael Cox. Don't forget about me. But it's the algorithm. You can build up a half a million in followers. Half a million followers on Instagram or TikTok. You can sell out all over the country. I've seen it happen. There's a woman I interviewed on my show, Leah Rudick.
- [32:57]
A
Yeah.
- [32:58]
B
Oh, you know, have you interviewed.
- [32:59]
A
I had her on my show because I thought she was so hilarious because she talks a lot about. Well, she does like parodies of like the wealthy.
- [33:05]
B
The wealthy woman character. She's a great improv actress who created this thing on, on, on, on TikTok and on Instagram during the pandemic. And she's got a giant following. She's selling out all over the country and she's hilarious.
- [33:19]
A
It's funny.
- [33:20]
B
Andrew is also a comedian. Yeah, yeah. So the economics are it's a grind until you can get to a place where you can sell tickets. I mean, I'm at this place where I'm a headlining comedian, but I don't have a huge following. So I go to Dallas and there's 55 people in the crowd. But it's people I used to work with at Yahoo. It's people I went to college with, things like that. Now I've got a show in the New York Comedy Festival on Friday. We've sold 125 tickets or something like that. Great turnout. But I can't do that every month in New York City. You know, it's going to be like a once a year thing. I'm going to hopefully sell out.
- [33:56]
A
You will. You will.
- [33:58]
B
Thank you.
- [33:59]
A
You will. Your essay about the streaming services cluster, I felt that one in my bones because I am currently subscribed to so many streamers and my father is like, oh, all you gotta do is like get a YouTube subscription. And I'm like, no, because can you get HBO Max with YouTube? Can you get Netflix with YouTube? Can you get Hulu with you No, I don't. You know, it's like it is, it is just a cluster, as you say. And so what's your advice for those of us who want to create some simplicity in our day to day financial life? And now maybe we're getting into like boring budgeting advice, but I think you're right about just, we create this chaos and we get used to the chaos. We like feed off the chaos. Yeah.
- [34:44]
B
I mean we're in it. We're in a new world where we all cut the cord. We were like, I'm finally going to take control of.
- [34:49]
A
Yeah, now I can retire and getting.
- [34:51]
B
What I'm going to pay for. And you know, you cut the cord and so you don't get the one Time Warner cable bill with HBO, Cinemax and whatever on it. You've got 37 different bills that are coming from and you don't even know where you signed up. Did I get this for free when I got, when I signed up for Verizon Wireless? Did I, did my wife sign up for this on her Apple, on her Apple App Store? And all these things are all over the place. And I realized that we were paying for multiple subscriptions for the same service that we were using my brother's login for Paramount Plus. And it's like, so the illusion subscriptions and direct subscriptions to these different services create the illusion of control, but it really creates an atmosphere of chaos. And that's also you've got subscriptions to Audible and Amazon prime and God knows what's going on on the Xbox that my son's using every day. And at a certain point you've got to decide how much of your life, how much those subscriptions in the extra 50 bucks you're paying every month is worth the hours of your life it's going to, to necessitate, to simplify the problem. So maybe once a year try to do a cleanup on those things or subscribe to one of the apps that will streamline all these different subscriptions. And guess how you pay for that? Through a monthly subscription. Which is ironic.
- [36:20]
A
I have a similar conundrum with all of the content, news sites and all the sort of online magazines that I'm subscribed to. And someone's like, you just have an Apple new subscription. And I was like, okay, maybe that's what I should do.
- [36:35]
B
Not to mention all the sub stacks, you know, the other creators out there who are great and you know, you want to give them, you want to vote with your dollars. Speaking of which, my substack is words.paulallinger.com but so you, you know, I think we're in a new world, and it's not going to change anytime soon. It will be interesting to see how these things evolve over the next, you know, few years.
- [36:57]
A
Well, someone just said a great idea I heard on NPR was like, why don't we just. I would just have to pay a dollar for everything I want to read, you know, because then I'm, I'm paying $12 a month for that one article. I have to sign up for a whole year, and I just want to read that one article. It's the first time I've been on this site. I probably won't go back in months.
- [37:12]
B
Well, that's why, that's why Netflix and Hulu and all, they put so much money into their tentpole programs. Because you're not going to not watch the Menendez brothers story.
- [37:22]
A
Oh, my gosh. You're not going to not you come back for that. Because I have thoughts. I have. So I watched the documentary. I was in Menendez brother withdrawal after. I watched everything I could. I was playing Millie Vanilli in my house for days. I'm not kidding you. Siri, play Milli Vanilli.
- [37:41]
B
I'm watching that show, and I'm looking at Jose Menendez. Javier Bardem is the greatest, scariest actor in the planet. And I'm watching him, I'm like, I'm the greatest dad. I didn't. I'm so much better of a dad than this guy.
- [37:53]
A
Real. Yeah. Well, you know, maybe I should have them on so money when they're free in 2025 and they're doing their whole media tour for their book.
- [38:03]
B
Oh, my gosh. It's. Yeah, we'll see. We'll see.
- [38:06]
A
All right. Reasonably happy, everybody. I had so many more questions for you. I wanted to talk about why we shouldn't invest in having eight toilets in our home. I think it was Seth Godin who came on the podcast and said, did you know that if you buy a home with a living room separate from the family room, that is like, over the lifetime of owning that home, you've. You've wasted, like, hundreds of thousands of dollars for that extra square footage, for the furnishings, for the cleaning of that room that you probably use once a year? Like, in my home growing up, we were not even allowed to step foot into the living room.
- [38:41]
B
Hilarious. Did your parents have, like, plastic?
- [38:44]
A
Plastic? I think for a while they did, and then they realized the absurdity of it. But that cost, that was A, that was an expense. Like, do you know, like, getting a spot clean is much cheaper than wrapping this room in Saran Wrap.
- [38:57]
B
But that even presumes, even pointing that out presumes that you can get a house without a living room. Because builders build what people. They don't sit there and ask what's practical. They build what people will buy. And their every incentive points to adding square footage and extra bathrooms and golf simulators in the basement and blah, blah, blah, because there's margin and all that. That's why they do.
- [39:18]
A
Paul, tell us about where to find you in all the places you've also rebranded your podcast. It was crazy money. Now it's reasonably happy. Right? And plus, you've got the substack. Tell us all the things.
- [39:29]
B
Words.paulolinger.com that's P A U L O L L I N G E R. That'll take you to my substack and from there I'll point you to all the directions you need to go.
- [39:41]
A
Congratulations, Paul. And really on so many fronts, the book moving to New York, building your comedy career coming on. So money, congratulations on all of you.
- [39:51]
B
No, that's. I'm delighted to be closer. And we have to have coffee the next time you're in the city.
- [39:55]
A
I owe you. I had to take a rain check. This is election week, everybody. When we're recording and my kids are.
- [40:01]
B
Election day.
- [40:02]
A
Well, yeah, actually, election day. I voted this morning. I feel like I've been awake for 24 hours. It's been a long day and it's only 12:35pm I'm tired because I took my kids to the polls and that's a whole exercise. I'm glad I did. They need to see this in action. They need to see democracy in action. By the way, did you vote in Georgia or New York?
- [40:22]
B
I voted in New York. I registered here. I'm going to vote here. My presidential vote would have been more impactful there, but. Well, yeah, I'll just leave it at that.
- [40:35]
A
Okay, well, we're just glad you voted.
- [40:37]
B
Thank you.
- [40:38]
A
Thanks, Paul.
- [40:39]
B
Thank you. Farnush.
- [40:42]
A
Thanks so much to Paul Olinger for joining us. Us. We have links to his book and his substack in our show notes. I'll see you back here on Wednesday. We'll be talking to Kristen Wong, a New York Times journalist and personal finance writer who is going to be talking about how to manage money when it gets awkward amongst friends. If you have a friend who makes more or less than you and it's starting to impact the relationship she's got insights and advice. Stay tuned and I hope your day is so Money.
- [41:23]
B
Hi, this is Christopher Kimball from Milk Street Radio. I often shop at Whole Foods Market since they sell the kind of food I like, organic vegetables, a great meat counter and of course, a great staff. For Thanksgiving, Whole Foods offer offers brine turkeys as well as a spiral cut bone and ham. The Whole Foods Market bakery has a large assortment of pies, even a vegan pumpkin pie. Or grab some brioche and butterflake rolls for the table as well. Or you can ask the Whole Foods team to cater your meal for you, including the bird, the sides and desserts. Get your holiday party started at whole foods market.
- [41:58]
A
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