1778: How to Make the Best Money Moves in an Uncertain Year

Summary

Podcast Summary: So Money with Farnoosh Torabi – Episode 1778: How to Make the Best Money Moves in an Uncertain Year

Release Date: January 22, 2025
Host: Farnoosh Torabi
Guest: Asia Evans, Financial Therapist and Author of "Feel Good Finance"

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Introduction

In Episode 1778 of So Money with Farnoosh Torabi, host Farnoosh Torabi delves into the complexities of making informed financial decisions amidst a backdrop of political and economic uncertainty. With the inauguration of President Donald Trump for a second term, the episode explores how shifting policies—from tax reforms to education and immigration—can ripple through personal finances, instilling anxiety and hesitation in individuals striving to secure their financial futures.

Notable Quote:
[01:54] Farnoosh Torabi:
“...change is afoot and that can create pause in our personal financial lives. From proposed tax changes to shifts in education and immigration, policy will have ripple effects on our wallets.”

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The Emotional Ties of Money

Central to the episode is the discussion with Asia Evans, a financial therapist who emphasizes that money is intrinsically emotional. Contrary to the traditional belief that money is merely a numerical entity, Evans argues that our financial decisions are deeply intertwined with our emotions, values, and personal histories.

Key Points:

• Debunking the Myth: Evans challenges the notion that money isn't emotional, highlighting that while money itself is emotionless, our attachments and what it represents in our lives are profoundly emotional.

  Notable Quote:
  [04:13] Asia Evans:
  “Money is emotional. I can't think of anything more emotional than making sure that me, my family, my loved ones are okay and that I get to spend time doing the things that are important to me.”

• Relationship with Money: The conversation shifts to understanding one's relationship with money, tracing back to foundational beliefs instilled during upbringing and how these beliefs shape current financial behaviors.

  Notable Quote:
  [06:31] Asia Evans:
  “Understanding how you think, feel, and behave with your money in relationship to your money... that's what financial therapy is really about.”

---

Navigating Personal Money Patterns

Evans outlines a structured approach to unraveling and healing negative money patterns:

1. Understanding Foundations: Delving into childhood experiences and parental attitudes towards money to uncover root beliefs.
2. Identifying Patterns: Recognizing recurring financial behaviors and cycles that may stem from these foundational beliefs.
3. Developing New Habits: Implementing strategies and coping mechanisms to foster healthier financial habits.

Notable Quote:
[08:40] Asia Evans:
“Once you understand what the pattern is that you kind of your financial habits, what do you continuously do? What is the cycle that you find yourself in over and over again, then we can start building out different skills...”

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Personal Anecdotes and Relatability

Farnoosh shares her personal experiences regarding the contrasting financial philosophies of her immigrant mother and her father, a Ph.D. holder. This narrative serves to illustrate how differing parental views can influence one's approach to money management and the internal conflicts that arise from balancing personal values with inherited beliefs.

Notable Quote:
[11:01] Farnoosh Torabi:
“My mother, especially as immigrants to this country... for her, your wealth status was very important to her... I bought into it sometimes. Even as a 45-year-old woman today, I'm very conscious of that background that I grew up with.”

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Strategic Financial Moves in Uncertain Times

Addressing the episode's central theme, Evans advises against making impulsive financial decisions during periods of high anxiety or crisis. Whether it's reacting to political changes or personal financial upheavals, the key is to approach significant money moves with caution and strategic planning.

Key Points:

• Stay Calm: Avoid making big financial decisions when emotionally charged.
• Plan Thoroughly: Engage in detailed planning and consider long-term implications before acting.
• Assess Priorities: Ensure that financial moves align with personal and familial priorities.

Notable Quote:
[15:57] Asia Evans:
“We should not be doing anything with our money when we are in a heightened emotional state. Like, beginning of February is not the time for you to be like, hey, we're moving to Spain.”

---

Couples and Financial Communication

The episode explores the dynamics of financial conversations within relationships. Evans emphasizes the importance of open dialogue, understanding each partner's financial backgrounds, and establishing shared financial goals to prevent conflicts.

Key Points:

• Open Communication: Regularly discuss financial goals, fears, and habits.
• Understanding Differences: Recognize and respect differing financial priorities and histories.
• Professional Mediation: Seek the help of a financial therapist when discussions become contentious or emotionally charged.

Notable Quote:
[22:49] Asia Evans:
“The fact that you're trying to have these conversations about money is going to be really important... when communication starts to break down... those are all times to then potentially bring in a financial therapist.”

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Social Media's Impact on Financial Well-being

Torabi and Evans tackle the double-edged sword of social media in shaping financial perceptions. While platforms like TikTok have popularized positive financial habits, they can also exacerbate feelings of inadequacy and FOMO (Fear of Missing Out) related to financial status.

Key Points:

• Positive Influences: Leveraging social media to promote budgeting and financial transparency.
• Mitigating Negative Effects: Strategies to reduce financial anxiety triggered by idealized portrayals of others' financial lives.
• Digital Detox: Encouraging breaks from social media to regain perspective and mental well-being.

Notable Quote:
[30:42] Asia Evans:
“Reminding yourself that our lives would look like that if we're perfectly timing it to music to elicit that emotion. So just do that experiment of... it's still there for everybody. It doesn't matter, it's not real.”

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Organizing Finances for Reduced Anxiety

The conversation concludes with practical advice on organizing finances to mitigate stress. Evans underscores the importance of having a personalized financial system that aligns with individual preferences and lifestyles.

Key Points:

• Personalized Systems: Choosing financial management tools that suit one's habits and preferences—be it apps, spreadsheets, or manual tracking.
• Simplification: Streamlining multiple accounts and focusing on clear income and expenditure tracking to prevent overwhelm.
• Regular Reviews: Establishing a routine for financial check-ins to stay accountable and adjust strategies as needed.

Notable Quote:
[33:18] Asia Evans:
“Whatever system you're putting in place has to work for you. It does not matter who else it works for. If it does not work for you, you need to stop using it.”

---

Conclusion

Farnoosh Torabi wraps up the episode by reiterating the significance of understanding one's emotional relationship with money, especially in times of uncertainty. She encourages listeners to engage in meaningful financial conversations, adopt personalized organizational systems, and seek professional guidance when necessary to foster a healthier financial mindset.

Notable Quote:
[36:14] Asia Evans:
“Continue to have them [financial conversations], too. Right... it's about love, and it's about making sure that both of you would feel comfortable and safe should anything happen to your marriage.”

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Final Thoughts

Episode 1778 of So Money with Farnoosh Torabi offers a comprehensive exploration of the emotional dimensions of financial decision-making in an unpredictable political landscape. Through insightful dialogue with Asia Evans, listeners are equipped with the knowledge and strategies to navigate their financial journeys with mindfulness, ensuring that their money moves are both intentional and aligned with their personal values.

Transcript

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[Farnoosh Tarabi]

So Money Episode 1778 how to Make the best.

[Asia Evans]

Financial moves in an uncertain year.

[Farnoosh Tarabi]

You're listening to so Money with award winning money guru Farnoosh Tarabi. Each day get a 30 minute dose of financial inspiration from the world's top business minds, authors, influencers and from Farnoosh herself. Looking for ways to save on gas, gas or double your double coupons. Sorry, you're in the wrong place. Seeking profound ways to live a richer, happier life. Welcome to SO Money.

[Asia Evans]

I don't want anybody to make any big money moves. When you are anxious, when you are in the height of your crisis, when you are feeling like, oh my God, doomsday, we gotta get out of here. And if you are somebody who's like, this is the best thing that's ever happened to me, I still don't want you to make any money moves at that point too.

[Farnoosh Tarabi]

Welcome to so Money everybody. I'm Farnoosh Tarabi. Well, it's official. Donald Trump is President Donald Trump again. And we kick off 2025 with a lot of uncertainty. A new presidential term underway, and understandably, so many of us are feeling a mix of anxiety and hesitation about our financial futures. No matter how you voted, the truth is change is afoot and that can create pause in our personal financial lives. From proposed tax changes to shifts in education and immigration, polic will be ripple effects on our wallets. And so, to help us navigate this emotional terrain, I'm thrilled to welcome back financial therapist Asia Evans. Asia has a new book out. It's called Feel Good Finance. A guide I think we all could use right now. Offering practical strategies for untangling our money emotions and getting healthier with our finances. In today's episode, we'll learn how to break down the myths that money isn't emotional.

[Asia Evans]

We're gonna learn how to identify and heal negative money patterns.

[Farnoosh Tarabi]

We'll learn how to set healthy financial boundaries. And we'll talk about the benefits of developing systems to help us stay organized and more accountable, to avoid the overwhelm.

[Asia Evans]

That our finances can sometimes create. Here's Aja Evans.

[Farnoosh Tarabi]

Aja Evans, welcome back to Sew Money. Happy New Year. I am ready to feel good about my money.

[Asia Evans]

Yes. Happy New Year. Thank you for having me. So excited to be here in the chat and dive in.

[Farnoosh Tarabi]

I can't start a new year without you, especially since you have some important work that you're sharing with the world right now. Your first of probably many books. It's called Feel Good Finance. Untangle your relationship with money for better mental, emotional and financial well being. I am going through this with a highlighter and I can't wait to hear how you're going to help all of us this year. I thought it was interesting as I was thumbing through your book, that still a lot of us think that money isn't emotional or money shouldn't be emotional. I want you to take the floor now and just dispel that for us, anyone out there in the audience who's feeling this still. Because I do think that it has been ingrained in us that, like, money is just numbers. And it's numbers on a spreadsheet. It's black and white. What's the problem? Tell us the problem.

[Asia Evans]

Yeah, I mean, the problem is, is that that's not true. And although it has been ingrained in us for a very, very, very long time, it. It just doesn't work anymore. Right? It's. It ignores what is important to people. It ignores what they value. It ignores how they take care of themselves, how they take care of their family. And that stuff is emotional. So the money itself, no, there is no emotion in the money itself. Right. You're not emotionally attached to the dollar. You're emotionally attached to what the dollar can get you. And that's what's really important. But I think we have, you know, lost the plot a little bit when it comes to believing that money isn't tied to how we see ourselves. And at this point in the way our society runs in capitalism, money is important. We need it. We need to pay our bills. We need to pay our rent, our mortgages, and, you know, make sure our family's okay. So when we start talking about money is not emotional and that it doesn't come from these deep rooted places. No, the money itself, of course, does not come from those deep rooted places. But what money can or can't say about you, what you're worried about, your perception from other people is important. That is emotional. So, yeah, I'm going to debunk that and just say, not true. Money is emotional. I can't think of anything more emotional than making sure that me, my family, my loved ones are okay and that I get to spend time doing the things that are important to me.

[Farnoosh Tarabi]

So, yes.

[Asia Evans]

Hear, hear.

[Farnoosh Tarabi]

When I first started this podcast 10 years ago, I would often ask guests every single time, what is your relationship with money? And at the time, you know, 10 years ago, I thought this was like a groundbreaking question. And some, some guests were stuck. They were like, I don't understand what you mean. What are you talking about? Relationship? I have relationships with people, but we were not there yet. And so I think it's important to talk about this in money, in this context, because I do think it's a rather newer way to look at money. You are a financial therapist. What is the state of the state when it comes to our relationship with money from your lens?

[Asia Evans]

Yeah. So I think our relationship with money really is about looking at the foundation of your money beliefs and where did that come from? Which then grew into a money mindset at one point in your life and then turns into how you behave with your finances. And financial therapy is really about understanding how do I think, feel and behave with my money in relationship to my money. Again, it's not about your relationship to the dollar, but it is about the relationship of when you see your bank account go under a certain number, why are you worried? Why do you get uncomfortable? What comes up for you? That is the kind of thing that I'm talking about. That's what I want people to take the time, dissect and understand for themselves. And when you had your cutting edge question of like, what's your relationship with money? That's what I'm talking about. It's why do you do the things that you do with your money? And what comes up for you when you either can't do something or can do something or have to navigate it in some way so you realize you.

[Farnoosh Tarabi]

Have a broken relationship with money in some way? Maybe it's that you have a fear of it, maybe it's that it does make you anxious, Perhaps you have avoidance because for all the reasons you just stated, right. History, there's a lot of context. The trauma that we grew up with, the experiences we had as both children and as adults, and I would say even more, the recent experiences we've had as adults with money tend to implement, impact our relationship with money. Because we know now from a whole, you know, body of work, science, scientific work, that recency bias, you know, people who, for example, lost their homes in the foreclosure crisis of 2008, 2009, are likely to be more timid and, and scared of, you know, investing in something as big as a home again because of what they experienced, the loss experience that was recent. But let's say, okay, you've identified. I need work, I need to, I need to work on this relationship. How do you walk through your clients to getting on the other side to feel good about their finances?

[Asia Evans]

What I like to start with is what probably tends to be the hardest for people is really going back to understanding how they grew up with money. How was money talked about? What did they believe about money? All of that good, juicy stuff that people don't want to talk about. Yes, I'm going to make you talk about your parents. Yes, I'm going to make you talk about how you felt in second.

[Farnoosh Tarabi]

Your mother.

[Asia Evans]

Yes, we're talking about all of it. And people hate to do that, but it is necessary. And it's not because, hey, I want to blame anybody, but I do want to understand what the foundation was for your beliefs, what the foundation was for your patterns. And I asked that to then walk me through where you're at in your life. So that could be. Yeah, this is how my mom talked about money. She didn't want to spend money. She was very frugal. She was uncomfortable about money. So I grew up with that foundation, but then when I got older, I now want to spend all of my money. I want to treat myself, I want all of the things, I want to go on the trips. But that has put me in a financial place of discomfort and I've had to, you know, dig myself out of credit card debt. And now why do I keep doing that? So what I'm trying to do is figure out what the foundation was, but then also be walked through what has gone on in your life so that we can pick out what the pattern is. And once you understand what the pattern is that you kind of your financial habits, what do you continuously do? What is the cycle that you find yourself in over and over Again, then we can kind of start building out different skills, coping strategies, building new habits for you to change what you've been doing. And this is the hardest part, right? Like, people think it's, hey, Asia, I found the root of the problem. I'm healed, I'm great, I'm fine. I'm like, no, I love that for you. I'm so glad we got there. But the hard part really is you making a different decision after you've been doing the same thing for decades. And that's what I'm asking people to do. And literally holding their hand while they do it sometimes, because it's not easy to say, oh, well, my mom did this and now I do that. That is really emotional, right? Like saying that my mom may not have known that this was going to impact me in this way. That is emotional feeling like you're like, you don't want to say anything bad about your parents, but, you know, they kind of messed you up a little bit around some of these things.

[Farnoosh Tarabi]

You know, let's talk about our parents. You talk about your parents in the book. I want to talk about my parents. And maybe those listening can see themselves through our experiences. My parents had very different views of money. My mother, especially as immigrants to this country. I think my mom quickly bought into the keeping up with the Joneses culture. And for her, your wealth status was very important to her. Sort of people recognizing you as being of a certain status. And how do you show that, right? You show that with, with the brand name of your purse and the car you drive and the who you're married to. Even, you know, it was very important for everyone to know that. My father was a doctor, not a physician, but a, you know, he had a PhD, but that's, you know, details. And I think growing up, it bothered me, you know, and I remember she would say to me things like, you deserve to have a nice bag. And I was like, why is there this entitlement with luxury? You know, that like, and I really, I have to say, like, I bought into it sometimes. And Even as a 45 year old woman today, turning 45 in February, I'm very conscious of that background that I grew up with. And I try to always remind myself, even if I do go for the luxury thing, like, is this, am I doing this for me? Do I actually value this? Or is it because I'm trying to represent something to people and, and I'm just honest with myself and I, I want to hear from you too, like how if there was an example, like that or like something triggering from your childhood that as an adult woman who has, you know, a license in therapy and is a professional still, it shows up for you because I do think this is hard work.

[Asia Evans]

Yeah, a hundred percent. And I talk about it in my book as well. And it. There's not one time I can pinpoint, but I do remember it was around middle school and just trying to navigate what it felt like when you have like the cool clothes. The way I was so thirsty for Abercrombie clothing, it. It just like ruled my mindset. And I'm a black woman. Abercrombie wasn't necessarily marketing to me or for me purposefully, but I didn't understand that at the age that I in. Right. It just felt so necessary to have those damn jeans. And my mom was like, Asia, no, I'm not spending $60 on this gene. And that just like it didn't crush my soul, but it was like a little wounding to the self esteem. I'll say. And of course my mom wasn't trying to do that, but it just wasn't a priority for her. And I totally understand, but it felt so important to me growing up. So now what I battle is making sure that I'm not trying to outfit my kids in these clothes because of my own baggage. My kids are 5 and 3. They could care less if they are in whatever it is. Like what is the cool name brand for the kids. I don't even know it because I'm not following like that.

[Farnoosh Tarabi]

I literally had a thought the other day as I was cleaning out my 7 year old daughter's closet. Came out with like 6 bags of gently worn clothes, some still with tags on it. One, because she's growing fast. And my mistake, I bought clothes that were too close to her size. Whatever. I try to buy like two sizes bigger. So a lot of times she's in baggy clothes. But one day they'll be perfect and I will have saved money, I will get that roi. But a lot of it is, you know, she tells me she's really into something, so then I buy it and I double down on it and then she's quickly over it. So like even at 7 years old, she's like trying to ride trends. And I thought to myself, oh, if I had a calculator, what would all of this amount to? Probably thousand dollars or more. And if I had put that in her college fund instead, you know, this is, this is me. Of course, as the host of the so Many podcast, these are my thought bubbles during the day. But it's just, it's, it. Oh, it really gets to me. So anyway, let's talk about 2025. This episode is airing. President elect Donald Trump is now President Donald Trump second term. And you know, there's a lot of uncertainty. He's proposing some economic policies that are worrisome and even outside of finance, he's proposing things that would have ripple effects in our financial lives, whether you're looking at immigration or education. For those of us who are worried about making big money moves this year because of the uncertain landscape, what's your advice like?

[Asia Evans]

First, take a breath. And I probably need to take a breath too because it is concerning, to say the least for me. I don't want anybody to make any big money moves when you are anxious, when you are in the height of your crisis, when you are feeling like, oh my God, doomsday, we gotta get out of here. And if you are somebody who's like, this is the best thing that's ever happened to me, I still don't want you to make any money moves at that point too. We should not be doing anything with our money when we are in a heightened emotional state. Like what happens when we're trying to do that is that we're, it's very short sighted and usually it does not help us in the long term. You were just trying to get out of your discomfort as soon as humanly possible and I understand that because you are in a crisis. So take the breath, don't make any moves. Now if you're like, hey, we are going to, you know, make this big financial step, whether that looks like we are going to go buy everything up that we might need for the year. Now we're going to move, we're going to sell our house, we're going to leave the country for the summer. Those types of things take a lot of planning, right? So start the planning process, having those conversations before you just jump into action. And I want you to realize, like what, how does this impact our lives? Right? Like what we may feel like is the right thing, what is actually happening to our lives? They may be different. So you need to take a pause to decide, okay, do I want to do something drastic? Is our emergency fund, our backup follow up plan fund fully stocked, like make sure it is prepared for any big moves that you want to be making. But what the biggest thing I'll tell people is not to make these big financial steps when you are upset. So, you know, beginning of February is not the time for you to be like, hey, we're moving to Spain. That may be what you want to do and I love that. But let's take some time to plan it out and decide if that's really the right move for you and potentially your family. So take the breath. First, make sure you plan it out and then decide what is actually realistic for our family, what is not realistic, and then go from there. But it is very hard because it is very anxiety producing and worrisome. So please pay attention, but don't do anything in a crisis just yet.

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[Farnoosh Tarabi]

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[Asia Evans]

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[Farnoosh Tarabi]

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[Asia Evans]

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[Farnoosh Tarabi]

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[Asia Evans]

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[Unnamed Student]

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[Farnoosh Tarabi]

No? And if you are thinking of moving abroad, listen to my conversation with Stacy Ennis that aired a couple of weeks ago where we talked about, you know, I know, I get it. The pull for some of us to leave the States and some have. Google has never had so many searches for you know how to get my visa in Portugal post election. But yeah, to your point like let's not make big high stakes financial moves and Life changes when we are at the peak of our anxiety. Let's bring it down a notch, or 20. For couples who want to get a little bit more of an understanding of each other's money patterns, money histories, how can they work together? And at what point does a financial therapist make sense?

[Asia Evans]

I would definitely say the fact that you're trying to have these conversations about money is going to be really important. The fact that you are recognizing, hey, we are coming from two different belief systems around money is great. But then when you realize that they are rubbing up against each other in a way that it feels difficult or potentially damaging to the relationship, that's when you definitely want to start looking at finding some mediation or talking to a financial therapist. But as I think the biggest thing for couples, one is to talk about it, but two is to give each other grace in knowing, hey, this person is not trying to hurt me. They're not purposefully trying to, you know, make me feel bad or knock me down a few pegs or do anything hurtful. And if they are, then we need to have a different kind of discussion. But we're going to say that you're entering into a beautiful, healthy, loving relationship and, and understand that, hey, something might be being triggered inside of them. They may feel worried, they may feel anxious. They might be worrying about their security or their stability. And what about am I saying, from my own experience is rubbing up against what they experience? So you're coming together in a way that is gracious to the other person and what they might be feeling about the money and then being able to say, oh, okay, it sounds like you're really upset about that, and I'm not quite sure what it is, but let's talk about where that's coming from. And that gives the other partner an opportunity to just pause and be like, what am I really upset about? Because it's not about this money. I'm upset about something that happened a long time ago and. And allow that space for both of you to be vulnerable, because sometimes you need to. So when communication starts to break down, when you cannot have a conversation without arguing, somebody's leaving the conversation crying. People are avoiding the conversation. Those are all times to then kind of potentially bring in a financial therapist. I've talked to couples before about prenups and how they navigate it, remembering that this prenup is something that they are going into together and that it is not, you know, yours and mine and ours, but that this is about love, and it's about making sure that both of you would feel comfortable and safe should anything happen to your marriage.

[Farnoosh Tarabi]

Yeah. It is so important to have that context because otherwise without it, it just becomes you versus me. And you're right. You feel like the person's doing it on purpose or is, you know, it's coming out of nowhere. No, it's always coming from somewhere and it's worth your time to get to the root of it. Before we leave, I want to get some advice from you on how we can temper the social pressures that do influence our money mood. So whether it's social media or certain friends that trigger us because of the way that they sort of relate to money, whether it's like that really wealthy friend who doesn't understand that not everybody can go to Cabo for spring break, you know, the way that they would do it and anything else. I'm sure you explored this a lot with your clients. These are like day to day trip ups that can maybe be avoided with certain boundaries.

[Asia Evans]

I mean, day to day trip ups for my clients and sometimes for me too. Like, I still have to live with this stuff and, and navigate it. So I'm always going to be a proponent for communication. Right. So yes, if you have the friend who always wants to vacation in a certain way, you can just let them know, hey, I would love to go with you. However, my budget is not going to allow us to be doing that. Like I want to go and I can't do that. So maybe you stay there and I stay here or we do it a different way or I can't go and that's okay too. So just being really honest about what your constraints are around your budget and remembering that it is not some moral failing about you or your success that you may not be able to afford it, nor is it some kind of moral failing if you can afford it and you do want really nice things. Because I think a lot of times we just talk about it as with people who don't have as much compared to wealthy, like wealthy people are still dealing with the, the ramifications of wealth too. So I will give them some grace in that as well. It's important.

[Farnoosh Tarabi]

Can I, can I just tell you a really embarrassing story that I had over the weekend? Well, embarrassing for me. I was at a table with friends. They're constantly traveling, family travel, a lot of fun travel. And I was caveching over flight prices for spring break. I was just bitching. I was like, oh my God, I'm not paying. Like I'm not paying this. It's so stupid. And I realized I was imposing on them my own opinions about what it's quote unquote worth, right to fly and experience travel. And I put a price on. I was like, you know, United wants like $8,000 for me to go to like some Caribbean island. That's a three hour flight. No, thank you. And, and the husband's like, oh yeah, that's crazy. And the wife's like, I get that. And then in my mind I'm thinking they totally do that. That's not a non negotiable for them. Like they, they have and will pay that and pay more because they value it and they can afford it and whatever. Like, let's, let's move on. I felt like, I felt like I put my, my foot in my mouth a little bit or I'd gone a little too far with expressing my opinion about what was worth it. But I think, you know, we're still friends. So the meal continued and the drinks kept coming and that it was fine.

[Asia Evans]

But, but that's a perfect examp comes up and I think you really, you nailed it when you said like, it's a priority to them. You will pay whatever you want to pay if it's a priority to you, and that's okay. But it just may not be a priority to you and your family in the same way that it is for them and theirs. And that's fine. It's just about, oh, I'm realizing that our priorities are different. We can still be friends, we can still have a great time, but our priorities are different. So having those kinds of conversations, even though sometimes you may feel like you're putting your foot in your mouth at the same time.

[Farnoosh Tarabi]

Yeah, really, I don't know my boundaries when I talk about money with people. Sometimes that's my, that's my issue. You, you know, because I just go all. I go everywhere on this podcast and then I get in real life and I'm like, oh, we're not on the podcast.

[Asia Evans]

And not everybody's as comfortable. But I'm like, what do you make? Are you negotiating? Tell me more.

[Farnoosh Tarabi]

Yeah, the whole world is the so many podcast. Everyone's a guest on my show. I actually walk around with a microphone.

[Asia Evans]

You should.

[Farnoosh Tarabi]

Not for this podcast, but for another one I'm launching.

[Asia Evans]

I'm ready.

[Farnoosh Tarabi]

Because I don't have. It's not enough to just do one.

[Asia Evans]

Oh, of course not. I'm here for it. And I think what happens is that when we are in this industry and talk about money so much in so many different ways, it's very easy for us to feel comfortable having these kinds of conversations and dealing with what other people may feel like is conflict. But we're just like, oh, you just think about it differently. That's okay, tell me more. I actually want to know, so. And not everybody's as comfortable as we would be having these kinds of conversations.

[Farnoosh Tarabi]

Yeah, let's, let's harp on social media. How has social media been a facilitator of some of the positive development like we talked about? You know, just tell your friends like you're on a budget. That's loud budgeting, which thanks to TikTok has become accepted. Telling people how you are not going to do X, Y and Z because you have financial priorities that, that you need to address. And there's, it's like a double edged sword. And it's also this place where we can go down rabbit holes and start to feel less worthy and fomo, financial fomo. Why am I not, you know, on the beaches right now with my family? What does that say about, you know, my status or, you know, my success? So tell us about how to kind of navigate social media in a more balanced way.

[Asia Evans]

Yeah, so I would say if you feel like social media is hurting you, there are a few ways you can handle it, right? So you can take a social media break, Right? Just take a break. Even if it's a week, two weeks, a month, whatever you need to do, just pull away. Or it may be that you stop following people who make you feel really bad about yourself. And the third thing I would say that has been really helpful for me is that one day I was on a vacation and I decided to film my vacation, time it to music, make sure there was good lighting and put it up as if I was all the people that I compare myself to. And that was so helpful for me to be like, oh, look at this beautiful life. You're right. Like, if I was spending the time to highlight real my life with my family, time it perfectly to the perfect insert trending sound here. I'm like, it looks exactly the same. It looks great. And I think a lot of our lives would look like that if we're perfectly timing it to music to elicit that emotion. So just do that experiment of. Okay, let's take one of my best days, right? I look great. We're at a great dinner, film it, do the things, time it to music and put that up and be like, oh, this doesn't look so bad. But not everybody's life looks like we've got makeup on the Kids are perfectly cropped with their bows and their perfectly clean shirts. Like, no, my kids are running around, they're trying to eat the dirt, play in the dirt, throw the dirt. And then there's this moment where like on the beach eating a lobster roll. It does not always look like that on vacation or in real life and just reminding yourself, and I love that, you know, there's been a lot of trending of like under consumption or hey, you see this perfectly aesthetic view. If you pan to the left again, you see the mess. Like it's still there for everybody. It doesn't matter, it's not real.

[Farnoosh Tarabi]

You touched on mess. And as it relates to our financial lives, how important is it to be organized, to have structure so that you can approach your finances in a calmer way? A lot of times people will ask me, you know, I have multiple accounts and is it better to streamline or I'm looking for a good way to really look at my numbers because it's when it's so scattered and I don't know, it adds to my anxiety. And so like, like I feel like this is a really low hanging fruit thing that we can all try to do. We can make this effort to just try to be more focused and organized. What are some steps for that?

[Asia Evans]

Yeah. So one, know that whatever system you're putting in place has to work for you. It does not matter who else it works for. If it does not work for you, you need to stop using it. And then I would say, does it make sense? So for some people, having several accounts for their sinking funds sounds great. For some people, really tracking their weekly spending for their budget and matching it up works for them. They want an app, they want an Excel sheet, they want to write it down. Whatever is going to work for you that you will use. I cannot stress this enough. You will use it is what's the best thing for you? Um, and I'm not here to say like what that is for everybody. I know I like to write it down. And I have an app that I use and I've been really enjoying and that works for me because I hate putting in every single spending tracking spending account into an Excel document on a weekly basis. It drives me mad. It's just too much data input that I'm not interested in. So if you know that you're somebody like that, you need to make sure you have a system that may talk to your accounts to put that in. And the second thing I'll say is that I think a lot of people assume that when you say budget, it means it's restrictive or that you have to look at every single expense. When I think about budget, what I'm really thinking about is, do you know what's coming in and do you know what's going out? You do not need to be obsessively tracking it. If you want to do that, it works for you. I love that for you. Keep doing it. But if that isn't something that tickles your fancy, don't do it. But you do need to understand how much money you have going out and how much money you have coming in. And as long as you do understand that, use whatever system you want, I truly don't care. I just want you to look at your money. And I think the problem is that a lot of people don't.

Yeah.

[Farnoosh Tarabi]

And just to build on that. For couples, I think I used to be very strict about, well, you need your account and their account and a joint account. You need to.

[Asia Evans]

And I was.

[Farnoosh Tarabi]

Now I'm just like, first of all, are you communicating around money? Is there some sort of transparency? Because we were going, right. People just want to know, like, what's the system? Well, first, you have to be good and solid on all the work you just mentioned, you know, understanding your money patterns and your histories, having a way to discuss money fluently and easily without there being, like, too much friction. And the only way you get there is to have these conversations. And then whatever system you choose is whatever works for you. I, of course, still want everyone to have independent accounts. I think that's always helpful to have your own slush fund. But in terms of how you manage that or what goes into that, I think is for couples to decide. And it only will work that way if you've done the baseline work of having these money conversations to. To feel good about your finances. Yes.

[Asia Evans]

And continue to have them, too. Right. Like, don't just have one and be like, okay, we're set forever. Absolutely not. Please have them. I would say on a monthly basis, but if that's too much for you, I don't even want to say quarterly, because that just feels too little. But monthly, I'm saying it every 30 to 45 days.

[Farnoosh Tarabi]

In the beginning, I think it's good to have some structure to it, like, we're going to do it every other month or whatever. And then the following year, it's a little bit more fluid. Asia Evans, thank you so much. Financial therapist, author of the new book Feel Good Finance. Happy New Year to you. Thanks for helping us start the year off strong.

[Asia Evans]

Ah, thank you so much for having me.

[Farnoosh Tarabi]

Thanks to Asia Evans for joining us.

[Asia Evans]

Her book again is called Feel Good Finance.

[Farnoosh Tarabi]

If you like what you're hearing, leave me a review. It would mean the world to me. This is our 10th year and hearing from you, learning about what you love about this show never gets old. You can do that in the Apple review section.

[Asia Evans]

You can do that on Spotify.

[Farnoosh Tarabi]

Every Friday I pick a reviewer of the week to get a free 15 minute phone call with me as well as free entry for a month in our Sew Money Members Club. I'll see you back here on Friday for AskFarnoosh and I hope your day is so money.

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