1826: Money and Menopause: The Financial Realities of Midlife for Women

Summary

So Money with Farnoosh Torabi

Episode 1826: Money and Menopause: The Financial Realities of Midlife for Women
Release Date: May 14, 2025
Guest: Dr. Sharon Malone, Chief Medical Advisor at Alloy and Emmy-Winning Journalist

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Introduction to the Episode

In episode 1826 of So Money with Farnoosh Torabi, host Farnoosh Torabi delves into the often-overlooked financial and personal challenges women face during menopause. Featuring Dr. Sharon Malone, an Emmy-winning journalist and menopause advocate, the conversation sheds light on the intersection of health, finances, and societal expectations during midlife.

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Personal Journey and Awakening

Dr. Sharon Malone begins by sharing her personal encounter with menopause, highlighting the abrupt onset and severity of her symptoms. Her experience underscores the general unpreparedness many women face regarding menopause.

[05:25] Farnoosh Torabi: "What if I told you that over a million women in the US enter menopause every year, yet most of them are completely unprepared for what's coming?"

[07:59] Dr. Sharon Malone: "I went from experiencing an epic hot flash on live TV to realizing that my story was not unique. This revelation pushed me to explore and advocate for better menopause education and resources."

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Challenges within the Medical Community

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the inadequacies within the medical community concerning menopause. Dr. Malone criticizes the lack of comprehensive training for healthcare professionals and the detrimental impact of the Women's Health Initiative (WHI) study on Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) perception.

[10:26] Dr. Sharon Malone: "Most doctors are very clear up until we get to midlife, and then women just sort of drop off. They’re not trained adequately about menopause."

[12:21] Dr. Malone: "The WHI study in 2002 caused a massive decline in HRT usage—from 40% to about 4%—by linking hormones to increased breast cancer risk. This has discouraged conversations and treatments ever since."

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Financial Implications of Menopause

The episode explores how menopause can have financial repercussions for women, from healthcare costs related to treatment and therapy to potential impacts on career progression and workplace productivity.

[17:30] Dr. Malone: "Access to affordable menopause care is a significant financial strain. Telehealth has emerged as a valuable resource, but there's still a long way to go in making treatments like HRT accessible to all women."

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Lifestyle Modifications for Better Health

Dr. Malone emphasizes the importance of lifestyle changes in managing menopause symptoms. She advocates for prioritizing sleep, proper nutrition, and strength training as foundational strategies to improve quality of life.

[25:54] Dr. Malone: "Sleep hygiene is a cornerstone. Without proper sleep, managing other symptoms becomes exponentially harder. Focus on a consistent sleep schedule and reduce stimulants like caffeine and alcohol."

[27:30] Dr. Malone: "Nutrition is critical. Women need to increase their protein intake and engage in regular strength training to combat muscle loss and maintain metabolism during menopause."

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Impact on Personal Relationships and Intimacy

Menopause not only affects physical health but also has profound effects on personal relationships and intimacy. Dr. Malone discusses the challenges couples face and the importance of open communication.

[30:14] Dr. Malone: "Intimacy issues often stem from unaddressed symptoms like reduced libido and painful intercourse. Open conversations with partners are essential to navigate these changes."

[31:46] Dr. Malone: "There's a direct correlation between menopause-related symptoms and increased divorce rates. Lack of communication and understanding can drive couples apart during this transition."

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Workplace Dynamics and Ageism

The conversation highlights how ageism in the workplace compounds the challenges of menopause, with women often feeling undervalued and unsupported during their midlife years.

[34:00] Dr. Malone: "Employers need to foster environments that support women going through menopause. Simple adjustments like providing fans or breathable uniforms can make a significant difference."

[35:52] Dr. Malone: "We need to integrate menopause support into workplace benefits and ensure women feel comfortable seeking help without stigma."

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Dr. Malone’s Advocacy and Future Goals

Dr. Malone shares her ongoing efforts to advance menopause education and access to care, including her documentary "The M Factor" and her upcoming book, How to Menopause. She calls for greater research funding and systemic changes to support women’s health during midlife.

[23:14] Dr. Malone: "We need substantial funding for research and accessible treatment options. Menopause is not a one-size-fits-all experience, and our healthcare system needs to reflect that diversity."

[37:40] Dr. Malone: "The world's hottest menopause party in Vegas was a celebration of women coming together to share experiences and support each other. It's this community spirit that drives change."

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Conclusion and Takeaways

Farnoosh Torabi wraps up the episode by reiterating the importance of addressing both the financial and health aspects of menopause. She encourages listeners to advocate for better resources and support systems, ensuring that women can navigate midlife with confidence and stability.

[38:00] Farnoosh Torabi: "Thanks so much to Dr. Sharon Malone for joining us. Her book How to Menopause comes out March 25th. Join us back on Friday for another episode of Ask Farnoosh, and remember, your day can be so money."

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Key Insights:

• Lack of Medical Training: Many healthcare providers are inadequately trained to address menopause, leading to misdiagnosis and inadequate treatment.
• Financial Strain: The costs associated with menopause treatments and the potential impact on career progression can create significant financial burdens.
• Lifestyle is Crucial: Prioritizing sleep, nutrition, and exercise can alleviate many menopause symptoms and improve overall quality of life.
• Open Communication: Transparent conversations with partners and employers are essential to manage the personal and professional impacts of menopause.
• Advocacy Needed: Greater research funding and systemic changes are necessary to provide accessible and effective menopause care for all women.

Notable Quotes:

• Farnoosh Torabi: "What if I told you that over a million women in the US enter menopause every year, yet most of them are completely unprepared for what's coming?" (07:59)
• Dr. Malone: "Sleep hygiene is a cornerstone. Without proper sleep, managing other symptoms becomes exponentially harder." (25:54)
• Dr. Malone: "Employers need to foster environments that support women going through menopause. Simple adjustments can make a significant difference." (34:00)

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This episode serves as a crucial resource for women navigating menopause, highlighting the need for better healthcare support, financial planning, and societal understanding to ensure a healthier and more empowered midlife experience.

Transcript

[Farnoush Torabi]

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[Farnoosh Tarabi]

So money episode 1826 menopause money and Medical Gaps what every woman needs to know.

[Tamsen Fadal]

You're listening to so Money with award winning money guru Farnoush Torabi. Each day get a 30 minute dose of financial inspiration from the world's top business minds, authors, influencers and from Farnouche yourself. Looking for ways to save on gas or double your double coupons. Sorry, you're in the wrong place. Seeking profound ways to live a richer, happier life. Welcome to SO Money Deep pockets.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

You know, we need money. We need money for research. Rich people, we need, we need money for research first of all, first and foremost. And, and we need to be able to help those researchers get some answers. So that's one. But we don't have 20 years to wait for another study. Dr. Sharon Malone is a friend of mine and she says that often. She's the chief medical advisor at Alloy and she says, you know, we don't have 20 years to do another study and she's right about that. So we have to be where we are right now.

[Farnoosh Tarabi]

Welcome to so Money everybody. I'm Farnoosh Tarabi. What if I told you that over a million women in the US enter menopause every year, yet most of them are completely unprepared for what's coming? Or that despite menopause affecting half the population, we've only just begun to talk about it openly. And I know that many of you in the audience have a touch point with menopause. Whether that's because you're in it right now, you will be entering this phase in your life, or it's in the rear view mirror wherever you are. We're breaking the silence today with someone who leads the charge. She is Emmy winning journalist and menopause advocate Tamsen Fadal. With a career spanning over three decades in TV news, Tamsen has now transitioned her focus towards empowering women navigating midlife changes. Her latest endeavor is a book called how to menopause. Take charge of your health, reclaim your life and feel even better than before. It's a comprehensive guide to help women manage the multifaceted aspects of menopause. In addition, Tamsen has produced the groundbreaking documentary called the M Factor, which confronts societal and medical shortcomings regarding menopause and advocates for a revolutionary approach to to women's health. In our conversation, we talk about the challenges to accessing affordable menopause care. What are Tamsen's strategies for how to navigate and advocate for cost effective healthcare options during this period? What are some lifestyle modifications she recommends to alleviate the symptoms? Cost effective lifestyle changes that women can implement? And what about hormone replacement therapy? This is a treatment for menopause symptoms. But how do we make it more accessible? And what do we need to know before we engage? So a little money in menopause on this show, obviously. Let's get into it.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Tamsen Fadal, welcome to SO Money.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

Thank you so much. I'm excited to be here.

[Tamsen Fadal]

I'm so grateful to have you. You know, we've been speaking a lot on this show for the last maybe year or two about money in midlife. And another M word that rears its head for a lot of us is. Is menopause. And I just have to say, you know, I just read this illusory bio of yours before we got recording here. Tamsen, you're changing lives in really, really big ways. And I know that the menopause dialogue has really expanded over the years, but I have to credit you for really being the first journalist, the first individual story to kind of go out there in a big way. I mean, yes, there are doctors. Of course we need them. But from your personal perspective, the guts and the bravery that it took to come forward with that story, which I want to have you share now, kind of led you to where you are today, which is now. You have this new book coming out soon called how to Menopause. You have this incredible documentary, which I watched, and I'm telling everyone to watch the M Factor. You recently had, like, the biggest, hottest menopause party in the world in Vegas. Like, no stone unturned. Let's start with the personal story behind this. I think you've been on the podcast talking about it years ago, but I want you to refresh us on how you even got started in this. In this movement.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

Well, first of all, thank you. I mean, for everything you're doing for women, you know, especially. I don't think I ever realized, you know, when we first started talking how important money and finance, finances or. And being aware of it and having an open conversation about it and all of these things that we. We haven't really talked about, all these different M words, menopause being, being another one of them. But, you know, I worked in news for a very long time, and I was doing the news as I always did one night and 2019, and all of a sudden I felt this, you know, epic hot flash. And if you've ever had a hot flash where it's, you know, there's a little sweat and it goes away, then there's this other one that just kind of comes from deep within. And this one did, and my heart was racing, and I felt like I was going to Pass out. And I said out loud, if I fall over, someone catch me. And our sports anchor said, I think you need to get off the set. And so I was like, yeah, maybe. Maybe I should. I get off the set and I go right down to the floor, and I'm like, I don't know what's going on now. This had been. This happened. But before that, what I didn't realize were all these other symptoms that were perimenopause, I guess, going into menopause, not realizing that there was this whole time in life where your hormones are fluctuating. So I went doctor to doctor and try to figure out what happened. Not an OB gyn, because I didn't think it had anything to do with that. And eventually got a note in my patient portal that said, in menopause, any questions? So that's. That's how I know.

[Tamsen Fadal]

I was like, this is your body on menopause. Any questions?

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

Any questions about what's happening now? So that was shocking to me. But I think what was more shocking to me was the fact that my story was way not unique in any way. And that's the part that got me down this rabbit hole.

[Tamsen Fadal]

1.3 million women in this country enter menopause every single year.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

I know.

[Tamsen Fadal]

We're so unprepared. We don't know what's coming. And to your point, the medical community is not always the best first place to go. I mean, we have to go through the medical community, but we may. It may take several tries. What have you learned most about that piece of the journey? You know, getting diagnosed, getting the right treatment. What is your advice for women? And maybe it even starts with knowing your body and recognizing that these symptoms are not just to be brushed over.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

Yeah. I mean, I think that the first thing is, is that we've put the onus back on women, and we have to. We have to take control of that narrative for a number of reasons. There are not enough doctors. First of all, there are doctors that do not know enough about menopause, were never trained about it. And in medical school, what left, left. They're not aware of what's happening at this time in life. Most doctors are very clear up until we kind of get to midlife. And then women just sort of drop off that. And that's by doctor's own admission. That's why OBGYN is telling me over and over across the country, across the world. You know, I got, I don't know, just like a chapter or a week or hardly anything about menopause. We just knew that it was this time your periods end. So that was really disturbing when I found that out. And that' really kind of what set me out to work on a documentary, to work on a book. Because I thought, wow, if we're putting the pressure back on women to know all this, I'm certainly not a doctor, I don't know. But I wanted to create some kind of template for women so that they could be able to go, okay, here's what's happening to me. I get it. I'm not alone, I'm not crazy. And I know what I need to do. Find a doctor that has actually understanding about this, willing to talk about options, and then I can take matters into my own hands if I decide it's not going to go the route of hormone therapy. But life's style is important to me as well. But I have to tell you, I've had doctors thank me for helping them bring this message out there. And that makes me feel good because that shows me we're all in this together, that there's no ego about it, that there's. There's all of us just trying to do the same thing together to, to help women, to help women not suffer.

[Tamsen Fadal]

I want to get to the how to more of it, but just to double click on this issue a little bit more because, yeah, I like to always understand things, you know, why do you think that the menopause education was so lacking. Has been so lacking. What do you think? What do you think is the, the reasoning behind that? Because I will tell you, there's a lot of education about how to get, when you're getting your period, the first sort of stage of, you know, womanhood. And then this one is like, okay, whatever, let. Let them fend for themselves. What is going on?

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

Yeah, I mean, I think there's a couple of things. You know, I think first of all, ageism plays a big role into all of it. Right. That women in midlife are just not as important as, you know, once they're past their reproductive years. I think that's a really a big one. And I don't think that we can understate that, and I don't think that we can pretend that that's not happening. We watch how women, you know, after 40 or 45 are treated in a lot of different areas. Is a narrative shifting? Yes. Is it shifting fast enough? Never for me, but we're going to get there. 2. There was a lot women were getting hor hormones and were having treatment for menopause and until a study came out, a study called the whi that really got a lot of women confused and a lot of women scared about using hormones. And I think that that really did a lot to all of us. It was 2002, it was a study that had started in 1993. It was supposed to last for 10 years, halted prematurely. And then there were two reasons that you know, that were given for stopping the study that they said that hormone therapy show benefits in reducing heart disease and was linked to increased risk of breast cancer. Result was widespread panic. Women like literally were calling doctor's offices throwing away their hormones. Lo and behold there were a lot of issues with that study that have since come forward. But we have never been able to walk back the damage that that study has done of scaring women.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Yeah, I remember from your documentary the M Factor, it was said that of all of the women who are eligible for hormone replacement, only a minuscule amount are actually on hrt. And I forget, I don't want to, I don't want to say the statistics incorrectly, but it was, it was staggeringly low.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

Staggering. It went from approximately like 40% down to like 4% of therapy just dropped off immediately. Conversation stopped. And that's a problem. So the conversation stopped with doctors in medical schools, with women in society, with community. So I, I think that you know what, it's starting.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Oh sure can be scary when you think about this particular stage of your life and all that's wrapped with it. You know, like you're getting quote unquote older. To your point, you're less valued in society. Maybe you're also as a woman, I know, I hear from a lot of women in my audience in their 40s and 50s and beyond. It's lives are very different. They're empty nesters, maybe they're getting divorced. They're blending families, they're dealing with more grief in their lives from their parents, parents getting older or dying. And so with all of that, it's just one of those things like when, when we're afraid of something, we just don't face it.

[Farnoosh Tarabi]

But as I say, when you're afraid.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Of something, that's when you have to lean in because it's probably really, really.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

Important a hundred percent and it is scary. Look, and this is the time that we don't have a roadmap for. It's a time that I certainly, you know as, as somebody that came from news was like what? I don't want to, I'm not going to get older. I can't age because you know, they're not going to want me anymore. So I do think there's a lot of things that we have just accepted for a very long time. And I think not until recently have I seen people go, you know what, we're not accepting that anymore because it impacts our health, it impacts our long term health, it impacts all these different areas of our lives. And that's not okay. And it's not just about menopause and symptoms. It's also about mindset. You know, it's also about workplace. It's all the things that we want going forward in our lives that we want to be amazing and we have to have to allow them to be and do the best that we can.

[Tamsen Fadal]

For women, money is a big factor as well. When you're going through these bodily changes, it's important to identify the right health team, the right health resources. What are some strategies for navigating and advocating really I think is what it comes down to for these cost effective but like the best healthcare options during menopause? What have you found? I mean that first message from your physician was like, you're in menopause, good luck. Any questions? You know, we don't want to be probably hanging out with that doctor for too long.

Right.

We want to find the team that's really invested in us. But how do we do that and.

[Farnoush Torabi]

How do we do it affordably?

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

Yeah, I mean I think that's really important. I think the telehealth has really been a pretty special area. Quite frankly. I don't think that any of us have the time, money, energy, anything to go to find seven different doctors to try to get some treatment. And I hear women saying they go from one to another to a specialist to this, to that, spending thousands of dollars a year on, on different thing that they see online. And unfortunately we're seeing a lot of people now go, there's a pill to solve menopause. There's no pill to solve menopause. Hormone therapy, according to menopause society is the most effective treatment for it. There's no one pill that's going to do that. So like that's the first thing that if I have to, it's not even a pill. I just feel like, right, it's not. And I, I just, I get so frustrated because I see so many people trying to like give women so much stuff. So that's one thing. The second thing is, is that, that I think telehealth is become a very good option because you can do it from anywhere. You can do it from work, you can do it from a conference room, you can do it from home. And I think they've got different ones will accept insurance. Different ones are at least affordable to get that first appointment going. That makes me feel good. We still have a problem with access. We know we have a problem with access in this country. And that's what I'm working for. I'm going to Washington for as much as possible so we can, one, get research done, two, find ways for women to have access because there should not. There's no reason in the world that women should be fighting to feel better. I mean, this is, you know, hormones are not expensive. They shouldn't be expensive. They should be accessible to women. And it's not okay what I see happening. And I think that's, that's what wakes me up and gets me up every morning out of bed.

[Farnoush Torabi]

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[Tamsen Fadal]

What do you wish we had? If you could snap your fingers to help advance this movement, to get the therapy, to get the wellness, access to wellness and health remedies for women. I mean you're, as you mentioned, you are advocating beyond the media, you're actively participating in policy discussions. But who's missing at the table that you think needs to be there for this really to get to the finish line?

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

Deep pockets, you know, we need money. We need money for research. Rich people, we need, we need money for research first of all, first and foremost. And we need to be able to help those researchers get some answers. So that's one. But we don't have 20 years to wait for another study. Dr. Sharon Malone is a friend of mine and she says that often. She's the chief medical advisor at Alloy and she says, you know, we don't have 20 years to do another study. And she's right about that. So we have to be where we are right now. And so, you know what I would like to see is I would like to see women, aside from seeing that research done in that bucket, women being able to all have access to these different areas, to just talk to somebody like this that says, hey, you're going to be okay. Here's what I think is going on. You have these five symptoms or probably perimenopause. Here's a few options. If you don't like either one of those options, here are some lifestyle changes. It's not hard. It's just hard that we don't have enough people and enough access and enough being done out there to reach women because menopause is not one size fits all. So some women are going to have a much harder time. They're going to have much more intense symptoms. They're going to have symptoms that cause long term health effects. And so we want to make sure that we catch those. And I guess a third, if I'd have three wishes is that we have some kind of baseline for women which is 25 or 30 or 35, so they know what's going to be happening. So when these symptoms start happening, they can go to a doctor and say like, look, I've got these 10 things going on. My periods are heavy, I'm gaining weight, but I'm working out harder than ever. I'm eating right, I can't sleep at night, and I just kind of don't feel like myself. Oh, you're probably in perimenopause. Let's make sure something else is not going on. But pretty much a majority of women are going to be in perimenopause. And how great would that feel if you kind of just had an answer right away?

[Tamsen Fadal]

Yeah. Dr. Sharon, I remembered her from your. Again, from your documentary.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

Yeah, she's on the documentary.

[Tamsen Fadal]

She's so funny. She's like. Another red FL flag is if you go to your doctor and you want to have a discussion about HRT and they say, well, we don't believe in it. She goes, it's not Santa Claus.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

I know, she's awesome. She's. She's so great. It's funny because she tells a story in the, in the documentary as well. But she's, you know, I've heard it from her in person and she said, you know, she's an OB GYN. She was an OB GYN for years in Washington, D.C. she said she went to her doctor and I guess it was her GP who she known for a long time. The GP said, you know, I'm not a fan of hormones. And she's like, you know, I didn't ask, but she said the point of that was, is that if somebody is saying that to her, knowing what she does for a living, knowing what she has studied her whole life says that. Imagine what they say to women who don't. Who don't have an answer to say, like, oh, why? Or don't have any knowledge beyond what that doctor's told them. So I think a lot about. That's where I. That's where I want majority of the work that we're doing to happen. And, you know, so that's why we did the documentary. And, and what I like about the doc more than anything else and what I've never experienced, you know, I did news for a long time, but what I never experienced was the communities that it's brought together around the world. So that's exciting for me.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Yeah. I think the equity piece of this is also really, really important, which you address. But just, you know, we know that by and large, when you're talking about women's access to health care, it's relatively harder than it is for men. And then you layer on top of that, you know, economic disparity. If you are a woman of color, if you are an immigrant woman, you know, there's just another obstacle, another hurdle. And I think that is something that deserves its own sort of attention. Right. Because it's, it's true, true widely. And then I think you probably experience it too in midlife and as you're aging as a, as a woman of color, like this is doubly hard to get the access to menopause education. In your book how to Menopause, you also talk about the lifestyle changes that we can make. So there's sort of like the stuff that you would work through with your medical providers, but then there's a lot that we can just do on a day to day basis that's behavioral, that's mindset that can go a very long way and allowing us to sort of gracefully work ourselves through perimenopause and menopause. What is, what have you found works for you and largely for other women?

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

Yeah, I mean, I, you know, for me I really needed to get my sleep under control more than anything else. Like, that was super, super important because without that, I just, I couldn't figure it all out. And really when I was trying to figure out the chapters of the book, I'm like, what's more important? The brain? And I was like, you know what? Sleep, sleep, sleep is so key with all of this. So putting together a routine like that, if you're, if you're going to do anything when you walk away from this podcast or you're laying in bed listening to it, or you're, you know, in the car, wherever you are, if you can focus on sleep, not try to do 100 things all at once, but focus on that sleep hygiene of trying to get to bed around the same time, trying to get up around the same time, trying to shut everything down, trying to do all the things and I, and I list them. I said the book is brain fog proof because I just wanted there to be very like, like actionable steps. Because no, I, I don't have time to read a book that I don't understand. Like, I need to, I need to be able to understand it quickly. So that's kind of how I wrote it was very, you know, here's what to do next. Here's what to do next. But so sleep hygiene is a really, really big one. And whether you've decided you're going to go on hormone therapy and do estrogen and progesterone, which progesterone is very helpful when it comes to sleep, or you decide, I'm going to go the route of magnesium or 5 HTP or I'm going to do melatonin. Whatever you decide to do, having that and foremost, if you can do that is exceptional. No caffeine and alcohol four hours before. I mean these things like really actually impact us now versus I want to do it to be healthier now. They actually have a physical impact. And so if you're not doing it for any other reason than that, and then I would say, you know, I would. My. My second area of what I would really be looking at would be the nutrition part of it. Eating, eating the way that's going to help really fuel your body. During this time we're bulking up on protein, which was never. I'm an 80s girl, so protein was like, like not part of the conversation. We just said fat free all the time, which was completely wrong. But the protein and then also strength training, those are like the three gotta have to do it. Go beyond there. And you want to go into supplements and you want to look at that. You want to say like, okay, I've got to add some different things to my routine. That's great. But like those are my three areas because we can only tackle so much. Right. And so I want to make the book set up so you could do this part and then you could do another chapter and then another chapter and at least feel some successes along the way.

[Tamsen Fadal]

The promise of your book, I think is not just how to menopause, but also how to have like a really great quality of life as you work through menopause and beyond. You know, one of the doctors from.

[Farnoosh Tarabi]

Your documentary, I can't remember which one.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Maybe all of them. They were like, studies show that when you implement these sort of self care strategies, these health strategies, as you're working through, you know, midlife, it creates a.

[Farnoosh Tarabi]

Higher quality of life.

[Tamsen Fadal]

You're stronger, you're sharper, you live longer, you have less chance of things like osteoporosis and dementia. How true is this? Is this really like where we're at now with the science?

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

Yeah. You know, Dr. Lisa Moscone, the neuroscientist that was in the documentary, talks a lot about that because she's just really focused on the brain and she actually wrote the forward to the book. I was so grateful for it because I just think that she is brilliant. She's one of those doctors that I'm always fighting for. Like I want her to have the research dollars and she actually just, you know, she's now heading up a big study so I'm super excited about that. But, yes, those things matter. Those things, really. And those things give you that different quality of life. And look again, there's no magic pill for it. But these are things we can start now. Like, we can start those at any age. We don't have to wait till we're 40 and in perimenopause to start doing those things. So I think that there's a lot of promise with that, which is why I think that this next generation is going to feel not only from an educational standpoint, but from a standpoint of understanding how to have that lifestyle a lot better. So they're not going to go into this with a to do list 20 miles long to try to solve every area, like, you know, like work many of us are doing. But yeah, there are science. There's science behind a lot of that, and we need more science behind it. But that lifestyle and those lifestyle changes are a big deal when it comes to mindset, when it comes to, you know, what we do next. When it comes to relationships, sex is another area we didn't, we didn't cover. But I have to add it in there, because I should have, is that, that's a big area when it comes to confidence and it comes to feeling good and it comes to having those healthy relationships with a partner.

[Farnoosh Tarabi]

Partner.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Well, I'd love for you to share how to have that conversation with your partner. Right. You've been in the dark as the woman. Imagine what your partner is feeling.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

Right, I know, I know. Well, that's a real thing. You know, I actually put together a man's guide to menopause because we had so many men at the documentary screenings. Like eventually, not early on, there was like, no men. And then eventually, like, some would trickle in, and then we men actually had a screening themselves. And I went, this is amazing. So I actually put together a man's guide, guide of basics, just the basics, so they could learn how to, you know, what we go through. But I do think that the intimacy has to start outside of the bedroom. It has to start with that conversation because all too often, myself included, I just didn't want to have sex. And I didn't even know why I didn't want to have sex anymore. I just had zero libido. And it was painful. And I was like, I don't want that again. That sucked. Like, it went from being very pleasurable to very painful. I am on vaginal estrogen, which has been a game changer for me. You know, we lose estrogen Every area becomes dry. It's pretty much as simple as that. And so that awareness is a woman, but you've got to talk about that with a partner, otherwise they don't know what's going on. I am.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Do you think so many couples break up at this stage in life? I mean, some say it's empty nesting. Some say you grow apart. But I also think if the intimacy shuts down and it's. It's a sort of. It's happening not because you wanted to, but because you aren't addressing it in your bio chemistry.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

I totally do. I said it a few years ago. I was like, is this why the divorce rate looks like this? And then there was a study out of the UK that kind of confirmed that in a lot of ways that, you know, look, I think. I think it's a combination of a lot of different things. Right. I don't think it's just menopause, you know, made me do it, but. But I do think that it has a lot to do with it, of course, because there's a lack of communication there, and there are two people on two different paths, and no one is talking and no one's aware why. It absolutely stands to reason. And, you know, and then we've got women that are not feel good and never feel good and are really suffering. We have an entire generation of women that were never offered hormone therapy, that never had that conversation, that were never talking about it like we were. So they. They had no chance of talking about it with their partners. And so I do think that there is a lot to be said about that. I don't think it's. It's isolated, and I don't think it's in a silo. It can't be. I've talked to a lot of women my age now that say they feel really badly because they remember what their mother was going through, and they realized, like, she never had the conversation and she just suffered. And that's. That's just. It's not okay. We can't have that.

[Tamsen Fadal]

No. I remember my best friend, she says, you know, one day I came home.

[Farnoosh Tarabi]

And my mom was just laying on.

[Tamsen Fadal]

The floor in the bedroom, and I.

[Farnoush Torabi]

Thought she was dead.

[Tamsen Fadal]

And I go to her, and she was just. She was just. She was, like, having a hot flash and she needed, like, a cold surface, you know, her daughter's, like, terrified. She's like, mommy, are you okay with 911? She's like, no, no, no. This is just what I do Tuesday mornings.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

That's awful, though. It's so awful. It's ridiculous. It's. But I know, I know that floor and I know how it feels.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Yes, yes, yes. I always go back to you.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

Really good.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Let's talk about the workplace.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

You know, a lot of women in their favorite conversation.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Yeah, we're like reinventing ourselves, you know, and we're doing it as solopreneurs, as entrepreneurs, but some of us are like reemerging from being at home with our kids to coming back into the workplace. And oh, by the way, now you're through going through paramenopause or menopause. What is, is the employer's role, do you think, like the responsibility even of the employer to meet their women staff where they're at?

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

You know, I don't want it to be the responsibility. I want it to be their desire to be their desire to help women. We have thousands and thousands of women that have reached out to us feeling like isolated, stress, burdens on this, you know, this part of life. So many responsibilities on their plate. And I just, I think that, that we really need to pay attention to what they're, what's going on in the workplace with them, making sure that they feel like they've got some type of help in the workplace. Whether that's low hanging fruit if you need a fan at your desk, or it's a uniform change, which can be a really big deal. You know, I went to a conference earlier this year and one of the women who was in charge of the company said, you know, we went into our factories and we said, no more. We're not going to let, you know, women have to have what they need. They asked what they needed. They wanted different uniforms. So they got uniforms that were like a different kind of breathable material. They got big fans put in. She's like, it's been a total game changer for these women. Like these are things that we're not thinking of when we have, you know, men often at the helm of some of these different businesses. And so I'm excited to see conversations like this happening. I'm also excited to see men wanting to be part of the conversations. Like, I don't, I don't ever want to leave them out of it because we can't. But we do have to be aware that we've got to have women in the, in these places to help because we've got to allow women to age into the workplace, not age out of it. And we've got so many women right, right now at this age in perimenopause and menopause perimenopause can be up to 10 years. So it's going to stand to reason that most of these women are going to be in the workplace. And hopefully we're seeing some of the bigger companies come forward with different kind of policies, which is exciting. The most important thing that we can have is have this as part of insurance and part of benefits and part of a conversation that they feel okay to have. So if they walk into their HR and they need somebody to talk to, that they're directed to a place to be able to do that. And so they don't feel.

[Tamsen Fadal]

From your lips to the ears of corporate boards everywhere.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

Yes.

[Tamsen Fadal]

You just hosted the world's hottest menopause party in Vegas. Tell me one. One revelation, one, like, moment that just even, like, was a shock to you. You've been doing this for so long, you feel like you've heard everything. What's a story that even, like, was really moving?

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

You know, it's interesting is one woman came over to me and she said, hi, I flew in this morning from Canada. And I said, you did? And she said, yeah. And I said, why? And she goes, I woke up in the middle of the night in one of my. I couldn't sleep. I felt a poke. I don't know what I felt. I just felt something. I went to my phone, I was flipping through Instagram, and I saw the world's hottest menopause party in Vegas, and I booked a flight. I'm like, what? She goes, I knew I needed to be with my people. And she came. It gives me chills. I was like, what? Oh, my goodness. So it was, you know, we put it together rather fast, but I just really wanted to celebrate March because I knew the book was coming out at the end of March, and I didn't want to wait until March 25th to start celebrating. And it was just really. I think what was most incredible is seeing women from all. All over come together. Like, Halle Berry called in, Naomi Watts called in. We had incredible doctors on the stage. We had doctors halfway around the world chiming in that were at another event going on. We just. It was just really like. I think. I don't. I haven't even gone back to look at all the tape because I think I'm, like, still so overwhelmed with it. When I see pictures, I'm like, it just is everything. I could have dreamed that we as women should be celebrating, I think. And that's really what I wanted it to be, was a celebration more than a summit or this or that. We did. We did a lot of that. We did the talking and the conversations, but it was like, what this time should be.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Celebration of life and maybe an annual event.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

I know my team's gonna kill me, but I already said yes. Oh, yeah.

[Tamsen Fadal]

It should become its own holiday. You know, Women's History Month is landing entire month of March. We could dedicate one day to midlife. Yeah. And to celebrate Tamsin Fidel, thank you so much. How to menopause coming out March 25th.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

Yeah, yeah, I'm super excited. Thank you so much.

[Farnoosh Tarabi]

Thanks so much to Tamsen Fadal for joining us. Her book again is called how to Menopause. I'll see you back here on Friday for a fresh episode of Ask Farnouche. It's not too late to send me your questions. You can DM me on Instagram. You can go to Sodcast, which is a brand new site, and click on Ask Farnouche and send me your questions there. And as always, if you're enjoying what you're hearing, would love to see your review in the Apple podcast review section every Friday.

[Farnoush Torabi]

If there is a new review, I'll.

[Farnoosh Tarabi]

Read it out loud and that person gets a free money session with me. I'll see you back here in a couple days. And I hope your day is so money.

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