1864: Mistakes That Can Lead to Millions and Why Failure Can Be the Best Business Plan

Summary

So Money with Farnoosh Torabi - Episode 1864 Summary

Title: Mistakes That Can Lead to Millions and Why Failure Can Be the Best Business Plan
Release Date: August 11, 2025
Guest: Kim Perel, Entrepreneur, Angel Investor, and Author of Mistakes That Made Me a Millionaire

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Introduction

In Episode 1864 of So Money with Farnoosh Torabi, host Farnoosh Torabi welcomes Kim Perel, a dynamic entrepreneur and angel investor, to discuss the pivotal role of mistakes and failures in achieving monumental business success. Kim shares her journey of overcoming setbacks, embracing imperfections, and ultimately leading her company to a remarkable $235 million sale.

Embracing Mistakes as Stepping Stones to Success

Key Discussion Points:

• Redefining Failure: Kim emphasizes that mistakes are not just inevitable but are essential for growth. She states, “Mistakes are going to happen and they can actually be a gift” (07:28).
• Personal Journey: Reflecting on her journey, Kim reveals how her own missteps paved the way for her nine-figure exit. She shares, “My success has been built upon so many embarrassing, humbling mistakes that I've made” (06:18).

The 70% Rule: Balancing Action and Analysis

Key Discussion Points:

• Overcoming Perfectionism: Kim discusses her struggle with perfectionism, which led to analysis paralysis in her business endeavors. “I wanted everything to be perfect. It really hurt me from growing and scaling my business” (13:56).
• Adopting the 70% Rule: Inspired by a Marine Corps general’s advice, Kim adopts the 70% rule, making decisions with 70% of the necessary information to avoid stagnation. She explains, “If you have 70% of the information to make an educated, intelligent decision, go” (14:18).
• Practical Application: Kim illustrates how this rule enabled her to launch her business without waiting for perfection, fostering quicker growth and adaptation. “You don’t have to be perfect. You just have to get it done” (13:44).

Lone Wolf Syndrome: The Importance of Building a Supportive Team

Key Discussion Points:

• Initial Challenges: Kim admits to struggling with the lone wolf syndrome, attempting to manage her business single-handedly. She shares a poignant moment, “My husband found me on my computer crying... saying to me, ‘Kim, enough already. You need to ask for help’” (16:08).
• Transitioning to Collaboration: Recognizing the unsustainability of her approach, Kim discusses the shift towards assembling a complementary team. “You will not be successful alone” (16:08).
• Delegation and Shared Accountability: She emphasizes the importance of delegating tasks and establishing shared accountability within a team to enhance productivity and innovation.

Product-Market Fit: Ensuring Business Viability

Key Discussion Points:

• Common Pitfall: Kim identifies the lack of product-market fit as a primary reason businesses fail. “They don’t have product-market fit. Their great idea is more of a hobby than a business” (27:23).
• Strategic Approach: She advises entrepreneurs to develop a minimum viable product (MVP) and actively seek customer feedback to refine their offerings. “Start small, but just start and listen” (28:30).
• Testing and Iteration: Emphasizing the necessity of real-world testing, Kim encourages continuous iteration based on market responses to ensure commercial viability.

Overcoming Underestimation as Female Entrepreneurs

Key Discussion Points:

• Experiences of Being Undervalued: Kim shares her encounters with being underestimated in business settings, such as being asked to perform menial tasks despite her leadership role. “You have to believe in yourself more than anyone else” (19:10).
• Building Confidence: She highlights the importance of self-belief and persistence in overcoming societal biases. “Self-rejecting is the biggest challenge because if you reject yourself, you’re not even giving someone a chance to reject you” (20:25).
• Flipping the Script: Kim discusses her strategy of embracing opportunities without waiting to feel fully qualified, thereby fostering professional growth and resilience.

Business is Personal: Building Meaningful Relationships

Key Discussion Points:

• Personal vs. Professional: Contrary to the common advice to keep business and personal life separate, Kim asserts that “business is personal” and that building strong personal relationships enhances business success (20:43).
• Long-Term Relationships: She emphasizes prioritizing long-term relationships over transactional interactions to cultivate trust and loyalty.
• In-Person Interactions: Kim advocates for face-to-face meetings to strengthen business deals, stating, “I’m 10 times more likely to succeed if we meet in person” (21:54).

Navigating Financial Risks and Job Security

Key Discussion Points:

• Balancing Risk: Kim advises against quitting a stable job before having a viable business model, recommending maintaining a side hustle to test ideas (36:13).
• Sustainable Growth: She stresses the importance of dedicating specific time blocks to entrepreneurial projects to ensure sustained effort and progress.
• Economic Uncertainty: Addressing concerns about financial failure, Kim reassures entrepreneurs to plan strategically, prioritize, and remain committed despite economic challenges.

Parenthood and Personal Growth Through Failure

Key Discussion Points:

• Learning from Personal Failures: Kim shares a relatable anecdote about dropping cupcakes at her child's birthday party and using the moment to teach resilience and the value of laughing at mistakes (32:57).
• Encouraging Imperfection: She believes in allowing her children to make mistakes, fostering an environment where imperfection is accepted and growth is promoted.

Conclusion: Embracing a Lifelong Journey of Growth

Kim Perel’s candid conversation with Farnoosh Torabi underscores the transformative power of embracing mistakes and failures as integral components of entrepreneurial success. Her insights encourage listeners to adopt a resilient mindset, prioritize meaningful relationships, and persistently pursue their visions despite setbacks.

Notable Quotes:

• “Mistakes are going to happen and they can actually be a gift” – Kim Perel
• “You don’t have to be perfect. You just have to get it done” – Kim Perel
• “Business is personal” – Kim Perel
• “Success comes from people willing to step outside their comfort zone and take those risks” – Kim Perel

Timestamp References:

• 07:28
• 13:44
• 16:08
• 20:25
• 20:43
• 21:54
• 27:23
• 28:30
• 32:57
• 36:13

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This summary encapsulates the core discussions and insights from Episode 1864, providing a comprehensive overview for listeners and those who missed the episode.

Transcript

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Hi, it's Farnoosh. Are you building a personal brand or business and craving real behind the scenes support? I'm reopening my intimate mentorship program Farnoosh bts and applications are officially open. It's my four month mentorship program to help fast track your success. You'll learn all my strategies across all the different verticals from podcasting to writing books and I'll connect you with very important people in my life. Applications are [e-mail]. i look forward to helping you Foreign.

[Montclair Film]

This episode of the Montclair Pod is brought to you by Montclair Film, our town's hub for film storytelling and community connection. From thought provoking indie screenings and Q&As with acclaimed filmmakers to improv nights, live performances and classes in filmmaking, screenwriting and much more, Montclair Film offers something for everyone who loves the power of a story. It's also home to one of the country's premier film festivals each fall drawing audiences and talent from around the world. Right here to Montclair. Want to see what's playing or sign up for a class? Visit montclairfilm.org for the full calendar of events and ways to get involved. Now on with the show.

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[Farnoosh Torabi]

Lately I've been turning to Quince for just about everything.

[Kim Perel]

Clothes for me, pieces for my kids.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Even stuff for the house. If you don't know Quince yet, they make high quality time. Wardrobe staples like cashmere sweaters, linen sets, silk tops and denim for a fraction.

[Kim Perel]

Of what you'd pay elsewhere.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

And with this late summer heat wave, I just picked up some new linen tops and bottoms because I was running out of the good stuff. Everything from Quince fits beautifully and feels amazing, light, breathable and effortlessly polished. I also grabbed a few new bathing.

[Kim Perel]

Suits for my daughter who's growing faster.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Than I can keep up. The quality is just as good, if not better than more expensive brands. And that's the beauty of Quint. They work directly with top fact, cut out the middlemen and pass the savings to us. Most pieces cost half as much as similar luxury items, and they're made with premium fabrics in safe, ethical factories. Elevate your fall wardrobe essentials with quince. Go to quince.com sewmoney for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com SewMoney quince.com SewMoney so Money Episode 1864 Mistakes that can Lead to Millions of Dollars and why Failure Can Be the Best Business.

[Kim Perel]

You're listening to so Money with award winning money guru Farnoosh Torabi. Each day get a 30 minute dose of financial inspiration from the world's top business minds, authors, influencers and from Farnoosh herself. Looking for ways to save on gas.

[Capital One Bank Guy]

Or double your double coupons.

[Kim Perel]

Sorry, you're in the wrong place. Seeking profound ways to live a richer, happier life. Welcome to SO Money. I actually am a perfectionist by nature and I think having failed then, I didn't want to fail again. So then I was lost and stuck in this analysis paralysis which many of us get to, which is I want everything to be perfect on my website, I want my social media, I want the sales deck, the pitch deck, and really hurt me from growing and scaling my business. And then one night I overheard on TV a Marine Corps general talking about the 70% rule. And he was saying that in battle they use the 70% rule to find the balance between action and and analysis. And if it was 70%, if you had 70% of the information to make an educated, intelligent decision, go. Anyway, welcome to SEW Money, everybody.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

I'm Farnoosh Tarabi.

[Kim Perel]

Do you ever feel like your mistakes are holding you back?

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Well, our guest today is an expert on mistakes and they didn't hold her back. Instead, they led her to a $235 million company sale. Kim Perel is a wildly successful entrepreneur, angel investor, and now author of a book called Mistakes that Me a millionaire. And we talk very candidly today about her failures, her missteps, and very humbling moments that pave the way to her nine figure company exit, and how you too can turn your own stumbles into stepping stones.

[Kim Perel]

They may not lead to millions of.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Dollars, but they can be very prosperous. We talk about why job security is a myth, the 70% rule that helped Kim overcome perfectionism, how to stop self rejecting, and why business is personal.

[Kim Perel]

Kim Perel, welcome back to SEW Money. Or maybe it's your first time, I don't know, but I feel like I've known you for so long. If this is your first Time on Sew Money. Then it's, I apologize.

Oh, I'm so happy to be here. I'm so happy to be here. And we've had such great, you know, circles of friends, which is amazing.

Yes, yes. And congrats to you. You have a book coming out called Mistakes that Made Me a Millionaire. I love this title because it's so honest. We all make mistakes and you're just leaning into the mistakes. You're not shying away from them, which is different. It's a departure from how so many other kinds of business books, leadership books. They heard us to avoid mistakes. You're like, mistakes are going to happen and they can actually be a gift. And there was an experience that you had, a pivotal experience when you were about to take on a multi million dollar deal, $235 million deal to buy your company. And that's when you sort of had that light bulb moment that I'm so appreciative for this. And also, and this could not have happened without me fumbling quite a bit, right?

Yes. Because everyone shares the successes and the wins. We don't need another book about how to win. We need a book that really tells you what happens, the truth behind the successes. And I think that's really important to share. And I think once I sold my last company and as I got the offer for 235 million, even at that point I'm thinking, this whole success has been built upon so many embarrassing, humbling mistakes that I've made. And I thought I should be sharing those with other people so they can learn from my mistakes and hopefully not make the same ones. But at least understand what lessons did I learn and then how did I transform that into becoming a successful entrepreneur?

Yeah. I think really what it is is your honesty. It breaks open not just you in a wonderfully different and important way, but it invites so many people to that. We are drawn to the honesty because we know, like, failure is par for the course. But you're telling us, you know, you can fail and still be fabulous. I gotta ask, what was that company for $235 million before we move on?

Yes. It was an Internet marketing technology company, so it was B2B SaaS. And I think looking back, it's amazing what you can build with the belief and the faith and the resilience and the grit. And honestly, I never thought when I started at my kitchen table that I would ever have had that big of success.

Yeah. How would you describe your relationship with failure? It's no longer a Fear. But what is it? It's complicated. Probably still you don't want to fail, but when it happens.

Yeah, I think growing up really early on, my father, he was an entrepreneur, and so was my mom. So growing up, I mean, my life was a rollercoaster ride of entrepreneurship, which is a lot of failures. And my dad, you know, almost went bankrupt more times than I can count. It was definitely a struggle. And listening to him really early on at the dinner table, we would talk about the failures that we had, and that was, I think, entrepreneur therapy for him, to be honest. And for us, it was about normalizing that failure from a very young age as a child. And I think that is the red thread of, I didn't want to make mistakes. No one wants to fail. But at least I knew, having watched that growing up, that I would be okay.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Yeah, life goes on.

[Kim Perel]

Life goes on. And, you know, it's. It's. It's terrible. You feel terrible. But every day he would, you know, get back up and go to work.

Wow. Wow. I mean, not a coincidence that you went on to become such a successful entrepreneur. Most entrepreneurs, they see it as a young person, whether it's their family or, you know, they were just had a draw to it at a young age. So then they devoured all the books and followed all the entrepreneurs. Let's talk about your mistakes. You organize your book in a way where you focus on 10 specific mistakes. That must have been a little challenging, because I could probably list off, like, 300 mistakes that I made yesterday. Narrowing this down was probably a challenge, right?

Oh, my goodness. There's so many mistakes. When you really start to think about. I mean, yes, to your point, I probably made. I made so many mistakes, but narrowing them down to 10, I thought these big 10 are the fundamental mistakes that I can think of that really impacted the trajectory of my career. And I think to your point, actually, even having entrepreneurs parents, I didn't want to be an entrepreneur growing up. Right. So I was like, I'm gonna get a real stable job. I don't want anything to do with what you guys are. This was. It was too much, to be honest. And I really was focused on getting a stable job and just climbing the corporate ladder. And what I realized after the stable job eventually went bankrupt and I was left broke and I'm unemployed, is that there is no job security. Like, job security is a lie, in my opinion. So I don't think whether I work for someone else, I work for myself. At least I can control what I do. Yes, I Couldn't control what, what happened. And so that was my mistake. Thinking that there was a secure job, there is no security, there's no job security, and the security is thinking it's all a lie anyway. So learning that myself and then making the mistake of waiting to feel ready, I wasn't ready. When I started my first company. I was young, I had no money, I had no experience. And the Internet at that time was a fad.

What year are we talking about?

So we're in 2002. We're winning. Like, the dot com bubble burst. Everyone went bankrupt. Basically, the Internet was a fad. Get a real job. But I had this belief that it was going to be bigger, really big. And everyone was like, it's not gonna be big. Which is funny to think of now. But at that time, after seeing so many dot coms, you know, go bust, that was the reality.

Yeah. This is often a problem with.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Here we go again.

[Kim Perel]

Women will speak for myself too. You feel like it. We know the data too. Like, women won't apply for jobs until they feel like they are 100% qualified. All of the qualifications they want to hit, all of them. And men, I think they feel like they got 50% or 60% they're applying. And this applies to entrepreneurship too. Feeling as though I don't have all the money yet. I don't have all the experience. You did this with. You started the business with $10,000, which is even more than what most people would probably start with. It does require a healthy relationship or some understanding of risk if you're going to take this sort of leap without feeling truly 100% ready. What's your advice around how to think about risk, how to manage risk in those early months and early year?

I think for me, since I was so young and so having. I didn't have a family at that time, I didn't have a mortgage and all of the other expenses and all of the other things. That really is hard to take that leap. So I was young and I'd already hit rock bottom. There's nowhere to go but up, so I might as well take the leap. I asked my grandma for a loan for $10,000 and that was a catalyst that changed my entire life. But for the people sitting right now thinking, I'm not ready, my idea is not good enough. I don't have what it takes. I don't have the experience. All those, I get it. And the reality is that success comes from people willing to step outside their comfort zone and take those risks. And so Knowing that that is part of the journey to success is really important. So if you see that as of part. Part of the stepping stone to get to be successful, it makes you step. Take that first step.

Yeah. You don't have to be perfect. You just got to get it done.

No, just. Yeah. I use a 70% rule, which I love.

Yeah, talk about that. That's in your book, a 70% rule. Talk about that framework and how it's helped you scale your business faster.

Oh, my goodness. Well, I actually am a perfectionist by nature. And I think having failed then, I didn't want to fail again. So then I was lost and stuck in this analysis paralys, which many of us get to, which is I want everything to be perfect. I want my website, I want my social media, I want the sales deck, the pitch deck. And it really hurt me from growing and scaling my business. And then one night I overheard on TV a Marine Corps general talking about the 70% rule. And he was saying that in battle they use the 70% rule to find the balance between action, an analysis, and if it was 70%, if you had 70% of the information to make an educated, intelligent decision, go. Anyway, okay. So I started using that. I was like, okay, 70%, let's go.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

How do you know when you have.

[Kim Perel]

70%, though the information world is vast, you know?

Well, it's definitely not. When you think I'm ready. If you wait to 100%, the market opportunity has passed you by.

Yeah.

Having the courage to know, I know it's not perfect. I'm going to go to market anyway and get feedback because feedback's a gift. And I think that 70%, to your point, it's hard to acknowledge. What's 70? What's 80? Well, it's definitely not. It's perfect. If it's perfect, you waited too long. So really understanding it's good enough. And then go, yeah.

I want to also talk about another aspect of your book, another piece of advice, which is you call it the lone wolf syndrome. And I really related to this, this idea of trying to do everything by yourself. One maybe out of fear that if you share the idea with too many people, it's going to, you know, someone's going to steal it or you have perfectionism in you, and that's keeping you from reaching out for help. And also asking for help requires a bit of vulnerability. So for all those reasons, it's difficult to assemble a team. How do you do that with if. Even if you're dealing with one of them, multiple Things I just mentioned, you know, whether it's perfectionism, a fear, or any other host of reasons, what that's keeping you from reaching out and asking, hey, can you help me with this?

Yeah, I, I really had that lone wolf syndrome when I started my first company and I wanted to prove to everyone that I could do it. I didn't want to ask for help because I thought it was a sign of weakness and I thought that people would just say, you're asking for help. I already told you it's not going to work. Don't do this. And so I just tried to do everything alone. And I think a lot of entrepreneurs and people that out there that are starting and don't want to hear all the criticism and the naysayers and every dream killer that tells you why your business is not going to work or your idea. So I tried to do it alone. Until the point you realize you break if you can't sustain 16 hour days trying to do it by yourself. And you're missing the most important factor in success, which is people like you. You will not be successful alone. And it took me many years sitting at my kitchen table until you finally realize you got to make room for other people. I couldn't do it alone. And the breaking point was when my husband found me on my computer crying one morning, trying to finish something and just being, you know, saying to me, kim, enough already. Yeah, you need to ask for help.

Especially as an entrepreneur, as a startup, when everything feels urgent, you feel like time is of the essence, there's a million things you're trying to do. It's very overwhelming.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

I guess I'm.

[Kim Perel]

Cause I'm kind of in a. In a place myself where I'm starting a new project with some teammates and everything feels like a lot of shiny objects. Oh, we should do this, we should do that, we should pursue this, we should pursue that. And it's a lot of work. I don't know. I think what we're struggling with is just figuring out a system, getting a system in place that feels sustainable, where everyone's got a role. It's one thing finding the people to help you, but then it's like delegating and identifying where they're going to be able to show up for you in a way that you can't for yourself.

Yeah, I completely agree. And it's finding the team that complements your strengths and compensates for your weaknesses. And really understanding shared accountability is no accountability. So how do we divide and conquer? And that I think is really important. In any great team, especially at the beginning when there's so much to do and you think you can do everything, but actually the right things to do is to focus on what you do best.

Yeah. You talk in your book about being underestimated as a female founder, which although you said this was like back in 2002, this is still paramount in 2025. This is still unfortunately a big issue. That when I was just interviewing the co founders of the skim, two women who just sold their company, they exited and then they were very candid. They're like, we were always underestimated and it hurt. We didn't let it get to us. It actually fueled our fire. But it is something to reckon with. How did you work through that?

Early on, when I would be in a room as a CEO, people would always ask and I was at a board meeting or after I sold my first company, people would still ask me to get them coffee. I'd be like, okay, to be honest, at some point point you have to believe in yourself more than anyone else. Doubts you and everyone's going to doubt you. And then you, you feel, you know, I've had many times and many examples where I passed up on opportunities because I felt underqualified. And I think a lot of people feel like that. And then you realize on how much you're missing out on because you're self rejecting. And that is actually the biggest challenge because if you reject yourself, you're not even giving someone a chance to reject you. So learning early on, after getting, you know, telling people I didn't want to be part of a board because I felt under qualified actually prohibited my growth and then saying, okay, this is ridiculous, I'm now going to opposite and flip it and just say yes to everything, which I then did because honestly, nobody knows anything anyway. To your point on all the guys, they're just doing it like we as women should just do it too. We'll figure it out. Along the way.

You have an interesting chapter called Business is Personal. I think that's interesting because we're always taught to separate those two. Don't take it personally. It's just business. What's the right mindset or what's the mindset that you want people to embrace around business and personal?

What I've learned is that business is personal. And I think the stronger my relationships have been, the more successful I have been. And so not looking at anything transactional, but really looking at the long term relationship and how I could build that. Because when I started early in my Career. I just thought, hey, the results will speak for themselves. But the reality is we're personal, we're people, we do deals with other people. And they need to believe that you care more about just like the zeros and ones, and that you actually care about them, Their success, their long term vision and, and putting that personal relationship first. And I think that has been a huge bridge for me to try to make sure that actually everything is personal and it's. We're just here right now. I think in the disconnected world, it's even worse. I try to be in person as much as possible, even in the disconnected world, because I think if I show up and want to do a deal, I'm 10 times more likely, six to succeed and get that deal done if we meet in person.

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So true.

And I don't know. And everyone thinks, oh, we can just do it on Zoom, but we can't. People want to do business with people they like, they trust, they know.

Right.

Really want to get a really big deal done. You better get up and go out, you know, you got to go find it.

Yes, yes. So this project that I'm starting is actually a local podcast about our town. And what I love about it is that it's. You can just pop into a business and talk to the owner and get the story done or get a deal done, a sponsorship or something. It's that simple. And I, I miss that. I really do. And I, you know, having this now, the side project, it's sort of a reminder of like, okay, how can we bring some of these principles back into the fold of sort of your everyday 9 to 5? So a lot of people right now want to start businesses and what is, would you say, the number one failure that people just seem to be running towards? They can't help themselves. And it's. I know your book is about like, okay, you failed, move on. This is what we can learn from failure. But if there is one failure that you know can be avoided early on that you want to bring up because it can be costly or it's what you see happen and often leads people to quit, not to endure, what would you say that is?

[Farnoosh Torabi]

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[Kim Perel]

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[Kim Perel]

Clothes for me, pieces for my kids.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Even stuff for the house. If you don't know Quince yet, they make high quality, timeless wardrobe staples like cashmere sweaters, linen sets, silk tops and.

[Kim Perel]

Denim for a fraction of what you'd pay elsewhere.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

And with this late summer heat wave, I just picked up some new linen tops and bottoms because I was running out of the good stuff stuff. Everything from Quince fits beautifully and feels amazing. Light, breathable and effortlessly polished. I also grabbed a few new bathing.

[Kim Perel]

Suits for my daughter who's growing faster.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Than I can keep up. The quality is just as good, if not better than more expensive brands. And that's the beauty of Quint. They work directly with top factories, cut out the middlemen and pass the savings to us. Most pieces cost half as much as similar luxury items and they're made with premium fabrics and safe ethical factories. Elevate your fall wardrobe essentials with quince. Go to quince.com sewmoney for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q-U-I-N C E.com SewMoney quince.com SewMoney.

[Kim Perel]

I think the number one reason that businesses and people are not successful in building them I I'd say is actually they don't have product market fit. So what they believe is their great idea actually is more of a hobby than a business because there's no commercial vi. So how do we ensure that we get to a minimum viable product or a product that someone actually wants to buy as opposed to us perceiving there's an opportunity and a need for someone that actually does want to buy it. So so many times I see entrepreneurs with great ideas they could be but when it collides with reality, people don't want to actually purchase it. So for anyone out there trying to start a business it's like get to the mid that the smallest product or service and start going out there and testing and getting feedback again. It goes back to the 70%. Don't wait till you're 100%. Because I guarantee when you collide with reality, some feedback, that feedback and that product will change. Whether it's your pricing, your pro, your promotion, your target market. You got to get out and get real feedback from customers.

Yeah. Start small, but just. But start and listen. Do more listening than maybe assumption taking action. You're so right about that. And that doesn't cost much. It's just more of your time and your patience.

Yeah, I think start small where you are with what you have and get to market and get feedback. And to your point on listening, we're always trying to sell, but that's not the point. We actually need to be listening more. God gave us two ears and one mouth. Let's listen to what people are telling us so we can make our product or service better so it will be commercially viable.

Yeah. Well, Kim, this podcast is called so Money and you're definitely the definition of that. And it's seldom that I have a woman on the show who is at your level of wealth, who is self made. And so I have to ask while you're here, a couple questions about becoming financially powerful. And I'm really curious to know. First, when you struck that deal we talked about in the Beginning, the multimillion dollar 235 million doll, first of all, how'd you feel like, really? I mean, I know you were thinking about all your failures. That's sort of the impetus of the book. But my gosh, did you have an out of body experience like when that, when that offer came across the table?

Oh, my goodness. It is one of those pinch me moments that you never think is going to happen. And so that was surreal. One of those moments that you never think and it's all about, honestly, many of those people that had been with me along the way, just sharing that success with them and paying my grandma back, you know.

Oh my gosh.

Obviously was one of those moments that just, you know, showing her that this Internet is really big and she bet on me. And that moment, sharing that with her was so special and such a. One of those moments in your life that just you'll never forget.

Oh, what was your first thought in terms of how this would change your life?

Oh, my gosh. Well, that I sold my first company in 2008 and that was a very life changing event. So I'd already had one great life changing event. This is my second great life changing event. And to be honest, for me, I started investing in other entrepreneurs really early. So I sold in 2008 and started investing in other entrepreneurs because I wanted to be that first $10,000, $25,000, $50,000 check because I wanted to pay it forward. And the reality is that gave me the opportunity to now invest in over 150 different companies and to start new companies. And I love entrepreneurship. I love the individual with a great idea that wants to sit at their kitchen table or in the garage or wherever they are and bring that to life. And I want to help them do it.

So, wow, $10,000 across 150 companies. How has that paid off?

Oh my goodness, it's paid off so well. So I think one of the biggest investments I got in at 15 million and then it IPO'd and wow, about 50 billion. So I feel that it was definitely, you know, betting on people and making those bets and those bets. And I invested more than 10,000 at that point, but those bets pay off. And, and the lesson I learned not only from my own journey, but other people's is there is no such thing as an overnight success. So my success is over 20 years. I'm betting on someone that's willing to minimum it's a five year journey likely it's more of a ten year journey to get to an exit and betting on someone that has the passion that will keep going for that amount of time. And I think that's really important when I'm investing. It's, I want to know they're in it to win it. Like they're, they're the, this is the first of many years that it's ahead of them that they're going to create and ideate and innovate.

Right. That there is a sense of like this person will endure no matter what.

You're right.

Because it does take. At least you're right. Like five years would be great, but more likely 10, sometimes longer. You're a mom now or not now, but you have become a mom over the years. You have four children. I want to ask what failures in parenthood have been cherished that you know are worth highlighting?

Oh, well, last week I went to the their celebrate their sixth birthday and then I dropped all the cupcakes on the way in. So then I said, you dropped the.

Cupcakes on the way?

All of them. All of them. It was terrible. They're all upside down anyway. But I think for me just going in and laughing like I. A six year old actually doesn't care if the cupcakes upside down or not. Yeah, there's a frosting somewhere on it. They're happy. So they, it was a nice Opportunity to really easily say, hey, mom makes mistakes. I'm so sorry. Cupcake tastes the same. Like, try better next time. But that was, I mean, that's last week. I make mistakes all the time. So do my children. I want them to make mistakes. I don't want them to. It's really hard today, again, going back to looking at perfectionism and having our, you know, all the students get straight A's. It's not feasible. I mean, I didn't get straight A's when I was a child. You know, I actually was, you know, not the smart one. My sister's, My twin sister was a smart one. I was not the entrepreneur was always.

A bit of the rebel in school. Yeah.

So it fits, actually now looking back, but at a young age, you know, you think I'm not the smart one. Am I doomed from. For failure from a young age? You know, is this the end? And I think knowing that that's actually a label we put on ourselves and to remove that label, because at 10 years old, your destiny is not already charted out. You can be anything you want. And at 30 years old, you can be anything you want. And at 50 years old, you can be anything you want. We just tell ourselves we're too old. We don't have what it takes at whatever age. And to be an entrepreneur, any age where you are, start now.

Yeah. There's no expiration date for success.

No.

Or failure, for that matter.

Yes, you can fail at any age, too. My dad's 77. He literally started a new company. So any age, what is he starting? What?

Amazing.

Yes. He's been in real estate, so he's starting a new carbon neutral housing company. He's got a big idea, which is amazing though, for him. It gives him a sense of purpose. And I think that's what, that's what keeps people excited and energized.

Yeah. You know, I wanted to ask this earlier, given that we are in sort of economic uncertain times. People are worried about their job security. And when it comes to financial failure, that is always hanging over a lot of people, but particularly entrepreneurs, they're putting a lot on the line. They're risking a lot more than, you know, the average person. So any advice around that? Is there a calculus for when you're.

Trying to start a business?

I know you said, you know, you had hit rock bottom and. But, but that's very real, right? Like, money doesn't lie. Like, if you don't have the money, you can't pay your bills, and then there are consequences. So how does an entrepreneur balance hold in balance? This notion of, like, I understand that financial failure could happen, but I also don't want to make the sort of mistakes that could really backfire. And then I don't even have the money to endure.

Right. First, I would say do not quit your day job unless you get fired like I did. I'd keep the job. Because if you look at it, you have 24 hours in a day. You get eight hours of your job. You get eight hours, let's just say to sleep. There's eight hours of opportunity that you could start something new, whether it be in the morning of the night, the weekend. I am really big on a side hustle. I think it's a great opportunity to test something before you go all in. And I think that really just carving off that time for you to create. But it's about prioritization and making sure you carve off that time. Because eight hours is an average workday. If you want to be average, then work eight hours. If you want to be exceptional and successful in ways that you'd never imagined, you're going to have to work, work more than eight hours.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just read a book. It was about sort of this idea of dedicating to your point, like a side hustle, but being very conscious about it. Very, very deliberate about it. Every Friday for five hours, this is.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

What I'm gonna work on.

[Kim Perel]

And it's, It'll grow eventually, hopefully. But to not quit your day job while you're doing that.

Yeah, Fridays, actually, I totally clear my calendar just so I have space to think.

Kim Perel, thank you so much. I can't wait for everyone to check out your book. It's coming out in August. Mistakes that Made Me a Millionaire. Thank you for your candor and your honesty and for showing up for us. Thank you.

Oh, my gosh. Thank you so much for having me. This has been great.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Thanks so much to Kim Perel for joining us. Check out her book, Mistakes that Made Me a Millionaire. I'll see you back here on Wednesday.

[Kim Perel]

Wednesday.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

And I hope your day is so money.

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Connection.

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