Pam Krueger (15:53)

You're so welcome.

Marianella Collado (15:54)

Love being here.

Farnoosh Kharabi (15:56)

You two know each other, right? You two go way back?

Pam Krueger (15:58)

Oh, yes.

Marianella Collado (15:59)

Oh yeah, we know each other. Yes.

Pam Krueger (16:01)

Pam is the feel inspiration. That's what she inspires all of us to be really passionate about what we do. So thank you, Pam, for all your efforts in the Feeling Network world.

Farnoosh Kharabi (16:12)

Yeah. Just to give the audience a little bit of the behind the scenes. So Pam, you run Wealth Ramp and Nella works for Tobias, but also is one of your go to favorites when you're looking to pair someone up with a Financial planner, which is what Wealthramp does. It's like the matchmaker.

Marianella Collado (16:30)

But you are right.

Farnoosh Kharabi (16:31)

You're like really careful about who you work with.

Marianella Collado (16:33)

I'm the advisor matchmaker whiz for yes. So people come to me when they are often overwhelmed with look, I know I want an advisor but I can't slug through the thousands of potential advisors that would work with me. That's where I come in. And I have already rigorously vetted Nella and 229 other advisory firms that are in the Wealth Ramp network. And Nella works for her own firm. They are independent advisors. They don't work for me. I have gone out and curated them, harvested them and brought them and invited them into the network because they fit the criteria I'm looking for. And I vet these advisors and monitor these advisors so I make sure when I make the match it's going to be a really good match and you don't have to spend your time worrying about doing all of that vetting and fretting.

Farnoosh Kharabi (17:31)

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Farnoosh Kharabi (21:50)

Awesome. Nella, you're Pam approved. I love it. Nella, I understand that you help many of your clients make the most of their inheritances. This is a big category and we know inheritances. It can come in many forms, right. It can be cash, it can be, my husband inherited an IRA from his late aunt real estate. And look, it's beneficial in the end for many of these recipients. You're richer than you were yesterday. But there are a lot of issues that can come up, issues that we don't always think about or we're not prepared for. What do you see as some of the common issues or complexities that you're often helping your clients with when they first receive an inheritance?

Pam Krueger (22:28)

Yeah, and I love that you're bringing this up because there's so many opportunities when someone is just informed of an inheritance. We recently had a client that received an inheritance via trust and we were able to save them over $200,000. Because what's supposed to happen when someone passes away is the infamous step up in basis. And sometimes custodians aren't catching that there's supposed to be a step up in basis. So all of the built in gains are supposed to disappear. But sometimes if custodians, if it's stocks, right. They're not adjusting the basis of those individual holdings on the date of death. It's supposed to, the basis is supposed to be brought up to fair market value. And if they forget to do that and nobody catches that, they're paying tax on what they shouldn't be paying tax on. Yeah, sometimes it's a home, they don't realize that the basis is now the, the fair market value so they can sell it the very next day and there's no capital gain. But one of the things that is overlooked inside a trust, sometimes, even though the inheritance is coming through a trust, that trust might have provisions that allow the assets inside the trust to get a step up in basis. And that's the recent situation where we were able to save the client over $200,000 in capital gains tax.

Farnoosh Kharabi (23:52)

Step up. Invasive. I was 8 years old when I learned about this. Okay, so that's referring to the adjustment in the cost basis of an inherited asset to its market value, which you say a lot of people overlooked, especially.

Pam Krueger (24:07)

In the Trust when you have the opportunity. Maybe the creator of the trust made an election to allow the assets inside the trust to get that step up when they pass away. And people don't realize that, that it's in there.

Farnoosh Kharabi (24:22)

Yeah. All the good reason to maybe work with an expert when you get the inheritance. Our audience over the many months has been asking questions about these lump sum inheritances. A lot of times transferences of wealth from a parent. But this first question I want to talk about is a severance that came in the form of a payout in the aftermath of a layoff, which I wanted to talk about because I think a lot of us sadly are in this camp where I guess bad news, you're laid off, hopefully good news you're, you've been given a severance and that always is different depending on your time at the company. In this case with Katie, she's received $35,000 in severance. This is from a tech company where she was let go. She'd been there for seven years. And these are her words. She says the lump sum feels scarier than the bi weekly checks that I expected. She's 35. Katie is renting a home with her partner in a high cost of living city. They don't have a plan to start a family or buy a home. She has a Roth IRA, she has a 401k, she's got a brokerage account and all of these accounts total about $800,000. So in the grand sch scheme of her net worth, this 35,000 is a small fraction. But she's. I just want to feel like I'm making the most of this severance check. She also has stock with this former company and has options that she has yet to exercise. I think she also mentioned the company went public prior to her getting laid off. And so with all that, she's got about 200,000 liquids sitting in the money in a money market account originally meant for a down payment on a home, but now they just want to be renters. So what do we advise for her to do with this 35,000? Part of me just wants to say go on a vacation, so go on a safari. Like she's done so much. And let's not forget that there is an aspect of when you get laid off and you're about to get back into the job market, you want to give yourself some time to recoup.

Pam Krueger (26:26)

Right.

Farnoosh Kharabi (26:26)

And collect your thoughts. Because maybe you don't want to go back into the tech industry. Maybe you don't want to Stay in the same career. Like I'm going to give her advice that's financial, but also maybe making this money meaningful in a way that could help her also feel more energized and ready to go back and do something that she's excited about.

Marianella Collado (26:43)

Yeah, it's such a good point because everyone thinks of financial advice as, okay, let's look at the numbers. Look at your quarter. Oh, the market went up, the market went down. And in this case, this is such great detail that it really paints a picture. And Nella will address the nuts and bolts of it. I'll just be the, the peanut butter to her jelly. I guess in this case what I want to say here is this is fantastic. 35 years old and has this 35,000 in the context of having this nest egg that they're already saving for. And I know I'll defer to Nella on the details, but this is where I would come from on this personally looking at the life side of it too, I would really consider socking away more money for your emergencies and an emergency cushion. And I say that because you can park money in a Bank account at 5% these days and just get paid to wait. And the reason is because if you're not working and just as Farnish said, if you decide you want to pivot your career, you need a bigger net, you need a bigger cushion, a bigger emergency cushion. So for me, that would be what I would do with the 35,000. But let's hear what I'd love to.

Farnoosh Kharabi (27:59)

Yeah, Nella, what do you think?

Pam Krueger (28:01)

Yeah, and I think every time there's a change, right? Change is not always comfortable to people. But I think change allows us to reflect, as you said Farnouche, on values and what's important and meaningful in our lives. And I think when there's a break, especially if it's unexpected, it allows you to sit back and review what is it that you want out of life and where do you see yourself going. So if a person like this, if Katie wants to take some time and give herself the time to re energize, she may want to look at her budget, right? Kind of think about what life is going to cost for the next six months, 12 months, whatever time period she thinks she needs to reassess where she wants to go. And then Pam said, earmark that in a money market. To me, this is short term money. I wouldn't look to try to get sexy with this. I wouldn't put this in the market just because we don't know Right. We're in an election year is the other thing that people need to be aware of. This is not the time to put funds that you may need within the next six months or 12 months into the market. That's not a risk that I would like anyone to take. Now as you mentioned, she's got 200,000 in a money market already. So I think once we've gone through her cash flow needs, maybe reassessing what are those long term goals so that we can align a bulk of those savings because it is a lot of cash into sort of this long term plan that she has. Whatever her vision is for retirement future.

Farnoosh Kharabi (29:28)

It reminds me of a question we got. I think it was last week or two weeks ago where, and I think Pam, you were on that show where one of our audience members wanted to know what do I do with my money? I don't have goals. And it was not a situation where she didn't have enough money. Like she actually had, I think hundreds of thousands of dollars. She had been an incredible double saver but was like, what's it for? I don't know. And I think that that is something to sit with and that is something important to figure out. And I'm not saying that our friend here doesn't have goals. There are Those people who get 35, 000 and know exactly what they're going to do with it because they know they like have a wish list, a to do list. And not to say she should go back and try to buy a home or do these traditional things, but maybe think outside the box. What are your wildest dreams, hopes and dreams? Katie, I want you to think about it because you've earned. Not only does everyone deserve this, but you have earned this. You have created a cushion for yourself and now you get this windfall from your previous employer. It's like the universe telling you like, hey, do something for yourself now. Like you've done a really good job of squaring away your future and working to save up and bulk up your retirement. But okay, do you want to start a business? Do you want to open a winery? Do you want to just travel the world and take nicer vacations?

Marianella Collado (30:49)

Yeah, it does. It gets you thinking about what you get. It's prompting you, yeah, think about what do I want to do with this. But one quick note is that the thing that I think about when I talk to people like this, when I'm talking to people through wealth ramp is she's probably a really high earner which is why in the tech industry, which is why she's been able to put so much money away. Fantastic. But the only thing, the flip side to that is that we don't know how much you spend spending. So we don't know if in a high cost because remember she mentioned she lives in a high cost area. A hundred thousand sounds like a lot to us. 200,000 sounds like a huge amount of money. But if you're talking about taking real time off and you're used to a lifestyle where you're spending a lot of money, that might not be as much as we think.

Farnoosh Kharabi (31:35)

It doesn't go that far.

Pam Krueger (31:37)

Yeah. And I love that Pam brought that up because that's why you have to look at cash flow. Right. So it's, it sounds like a big windfall, but you might get through this in three months or six months. And then all of a sudden what are we going to do with ourselves? So it might sound great to go on a cruise. You mentioned something that would prompt someone to look at this from a tax perspective is those, those stock grants, Right. What are we going to do with them? Company just went ipo. Do we hold on to them if they're grants? Do we exercise them? What are we thinking the stock is going to do going forward? Do we do an exercise in hold? So there's a lot of planning here that she could be really. And if that's a concentrated position, that also poses a risk to her that she may want to diversify out of some of this stock.

Farnoosh Kharabi (32:22)

Yeah, yeah, that's a good point. It's a really good point. All right, Katie, lots to think about. Thanks for your question. Ruth has a question also about an inheritance, but in the context of having student loans. So Ruth's husband, she has what she calls an albatross of student loans of over $240,000. And. And at the same time, the couple is set to inherit about $50,000 from a parent. Should they use this money to pay off the loans? A little bit of background Ruth provided us. She says we both contribute to 401ks. We have four months worth of emergency savings and no credit card debt. Her income is solid, smaller though, than her spouse's. They have a mortgage with about 28 years left on it, but the interest is really low. They bought it during the pandemic. The home is appreciated very nicely. No kids, but hoping to be pregnant this year. Should we be putting amounts like that towards the student loans or towards other goals like home renovation or college fund for our future kids? A lot of this Debt, by the way, is also federal. I've since caught up with Ruth and she did say that her husband's on a payment plan already with the government, so that's good. That said, it's still $240,000. And I know, but with that amount of debt, getting a lump sum like 50, you feel like instinctively this should go towards that because it's, it's just hanging over you and they may be feeling really uncomfortable about it. But what's the smart money do? Who wants to go first?

Marianella Collado (34:00)

Okay, I'll just take again the big, the bigger picture for me because I'm dying to hear what Nell has to say for the advice part of it. But I know you want to get rid of the albatross, so it will be in that exact same position, but with thinking about getting pregnant and future college and retirement. I kind of want to say take care of yourself first with your own money and look to every program that's available. Remember, during the Obama administration, a lot of programs, payback programs that could shorten the life of the loan, federal programs came up. So if she's already, if they're already taking advantage of that is fantastic. Let the government and let some of these programs help you then dig into your pocket. But I just would, I hate to say it, but I would string it out as long as possible and I would make that my last priority. I understand it's an albatross, but it's not as big of an albatross as, say, having a mortgage or other things that are really immediate family pressures. I'm not saying you're not going to stay, keep making payments on time, obviously, and keep paying it off, but I just wouldn't rush to take, take new money and put it toward, I don't know. Nella?

Pam Krueger (35:17)

Yeah, I have a couple of thoughts. We had a client, he had about $400,000 in student debt. So Ruth could feel somewhat comforted with 240. I think, like Pam said, exploring avenues where there is potential forgiveness. If they work with a tax exempt organization. There are programs that once you meet the annual qualification process, the loans would be forgiven within 10 years. So before I look to any student debt, I would look at whether there's a possibility to get on a program sometimes evaluating, do I change my employer? Do I take a pay cut today to work for a tax exempt organization that's going to make me eligible for forgiveness in 10 years. And you might say, you know, what's doing the math, right? This is a big debt. There's a Big cloud over someone's shoulder. So if you think about taking the pay cut today for a big forgiveness later, it might make sense. So that's something to evaluate and if that's not an option then I'm always going to look at what is the rate of return I'm getting in my investments, in my assets versus what is the rate that I'm paying on this debt. If there's no potential silver lining on debt forgiveness, then maybe you do want to pay down debt that it doesn't make sense to put cash in this account earning 5% if the debt is costing you 8. So once you have exhausted potential forgiveness program programs and that's not going to work, then evaluate savings rate versus debt rate. And then I'm with Pam. I, I say take care of yourself first because the biggest gift is our own financial freedom and our financial security and I love my parents for that. The fact that they're 75 and they travel, they don't have to ask us for money. To me that's the biggest gift and the biggest inheritance they gave me is their own financial freedom. So I'd say that you only think about funding student college savings after you've ensured that your own financial security has been met.

Farnoosh Kharabi (37:17)

That is true. There's no Stafford loan for a retiree unfortunately. Thank you both for that answer. Ruth, good luck. Karen has a question. She has inherited her mother's share of their parents family home as well as her mother's ROTH and the ira. She's considering buying her own home now. Now and she understands that first time home buyers are eligible to withdraw $10,000 from a retirement account if the account is over 5 years old. I think this is the ROTH that allows for this. So would she still be eligible to withdraw from her own retirement account as well as her mother's retirement funds to buy a house if she has partial ownership ownership of the parents home. So she's really the issue is like would I still be considered a first time owner if I've inherited this home which I didn't buy directly. I inherited it but I guess it gets a little confusing. Do you have any experience with this Nella?

Pam Krueger (38:23)

Yeah, so a couple of things. First, Karen should know that they changed the rules for retirement accounts. So this is huge. There was a little piece of legislation that was passed right before COVID took over and then it was completely overshadowed by the CARES act and this was called the Secure act which left us feeling very insecure because this piece of legislation really ripped the rug from under all of the planning that we had been doing for years and what that piece of law did is that when you inherit an IRA and you're not a spouse, you have to fully distribute that IRA within 10 years.

Farnoosh Kharabi (39:05)

Years.

Pam Krueger (39:06)

So with respect to this situation, she's going to have to take the inherited Roth out by year 10. So she can take any dollar amount out of a Roth and there's not going to be any penalty subject to it because she has to take it out by year 10. She can take it all in year one, she can stretch it over 10 years, but there's no limitation on what she can draw from that inherited Roth Roth. So that's one point. So that might solve her question altogether. And two, you hit the nail on the head. She's no longer a first time home buyer because she's now she owns a home. So really her, she doesn't have to worry about it A, because she can take anything she wants out of the inherited Roth and B, she's not a first time home buyer. So that's going to be irrelevant. But also there's a very quirky rule with Roth IRAs that you created and you fund it and it's called the fifo. FIFO is normally an accounting term which I love, but that's first in, first out. So if you set up a Roth IRA and you put in a dollar, you can take your dollar back. That's what comes out first. And you can do that penalty free.

Marianella Collado (40:18)

You can, that's your contribution. Just breaking in real quick to make it clear you're talking about the money that you put in, that's your contribution separate from your earnings.

Pam Krueger (40:26)

Earnings, correct, Correct. So the dollar that goes in first is your contribution. And so you can always pull your dollar back and not have to pay tax or penalty because it's a Roth. The only time you run into some limitations is once you're talking about earnings, as Pam mentioned.

Farnoosh Kharabi (40:42)

All right, all in all, good news. Good news for Karen. Yeah. All right, last question from the audience and then I have a question, but Mary wants to know about. There's some complications with Mary. So basically, long story short, she's 30 and she has a brother who is severely autistic, has and always will need full time care. She says Medicaid pays for most of it, thankfully. But she's recently learned that each state has what's called Medicaid estate, has a Medicaid state recovery program which will attempt to recoup state funds spent on a disabled person from their own estate, which is a bummer. And here's why. It's especially a bummer for Mary. Because her parents have put money aside for her brother in a trust. She's also a beneficiary of the trust in the event that her brother passes before she does, which she thinks is likely because his health is poor. Will that protect any money they've saved for his care? Will this trust protect any of the money that they've saved for his care? Will his current guardian, which is their mother or her, the legal guardian in the future be on the hook for any of this estate recovery? She says, I assume that I will not be eligible to inherit anything from him, but I'm concerned about my parents passing away first and then leading us something jointly. What are your thoughts? Should I be doing anything now to protect myself and my family from future legal headaches? I wonder if this also, I do not know, this is like way above my, my, my intelligence but I wonder if like her mom should get re involved with her in this estate plan that they put aside. Do we need to reopen the estate plan? Her mom is still alive.

Pam Krueger (42:31)

Yeah, so I don't. Pam, did you want to take some high level remarks or do you want me to.

Marianella Collado (42:37)

Okay, I'll do the, I'll do the big picture color.

Farnoosh Kharabi (42:39)

Okay, so here's the global frame as we say in the world.

Marianella Collado (42:43)

That's. Yeah, that's where as I'm listening and taking all this in and hearing it from others who come with similar questions, this is where I just want to say there's so much legal estate planning, financial emotional family and all of that. That's why you guys, that's why I feel so strongly that this is not the kind of thing you can just go in and go, oh yeah, I need a financial advisor. This is why. And thankfully we didn't know we were going to get this question. But thankfully Nella is one of those advisors who does have a sub specialization in special needs trust and planning. And that is a specialization not every advisor offer it. So with that I'll step aside.

Pam Krueger (43:26)

Yeah, I have some. When I saw this, this case I thought, oh, Mary's gonna be super happy with what I'm about to tell her because yes and yes. So yes, we should make sure that we're revisiting your parents estate plan because we have to make sure that the language is such, that enables the share that's for the brother, for her brother whose special needs that it, it has special language to make it what's called a supplemental needs trust. So mom setting up A trust for a special needs child that has this language that says in no circumstance should this trust be considered a primary resource to fund the special needs beneficiaries expenses. So government assistance comes first and only to the extent that government assistance is not covering expenses that beneficiary needs should the trust be used. So what that means is that this inheritance will not disrupt the government provided benefits. So check. Right. We want to make sure that happens first. And secondly, because this is what's called a third party trust. Right. The inheritance is not going first to the special needs brother and then he sets up a trust that's really bad that situation. Right. But this is the parent setting up a trust for their children, one of which happens to be special needs. This is known as a third party special needs trust. This has no clawback, there's no repayment provided assistance. Right. Because this is a third party trust. So this is a very special distinction because this is a third party trust, not a first party trust. Whereas if you and I choose to take all of our assets and put it inside a trust to be able to take advantage of Medicare benefits, that's going to be considered a first party trust where there is clawback and Medicare payback. So very different.

Marianella Collado (45:27)

Nella, can I ask a dumb question in between here? So for Mary, really the answer to the part about are they going to come after me for those benefits, the answer is because it's a third party trust. It's. She's safe, she's safe.

Pam Krueger (45:44)

She just wants to make sure that the mom's trust has all of the, the language in there to ensure that it is treated as a, as an irrevocable trust for the benefit of the. I would almost split it so that you can have one for the brother, one for the sister and the one for the brother has all of the special needs language. And then when brother, if he passes away first, then it reverts back to her trust. So that's generally how I like to structure this for my clients. When there's ever a special needs child is protecting the special needs child but also making sure that when that child passes away it goes to the siblings, the surviving siblings.

Farnoosh Kharabi (46:24)

Wow. I love my audience. They ask the best questions and they're not afraid to really get specific, which is great. And I'm so grateful that you both were able to be on. Nella, you're a triple threat. You are a financial plan manner, you are a CPA and you happen to have this encyclopedic brain about trusts and estate planning. As it pertains also to special needs families. What? What?

Marianella Collado (46:50)

That's the way we roll here.

Farnoosh Kharabi (46:52)

Because you're such a wealth of knowledge, I didn't want you to leave the show without I wanted to ask you a little bit about taxes and inheritances because. Or even just lump sums. I know even if I get like a bonus from my employer. Back in the day when I had an employer, I excited and then I would see the IRS take 40% because bonuses are taxed at a higher tax rate and so are there. I don't know if this is. We can summarize this, but what are your best tips or things you want our audience to know about the tax implications of receiving a lump sum? And maybe we can just focus on inheritances here since that's the theme. But when they get a family inheritance, what are usually the tax considerations and should they work with a cpa?

Pam Krueger (47:37)

Yes and yes. For me there's always some tips here.

Farnoosh Kharabi (47:41)

So you should ask leading questions only on this show you should always seek.

Pam Krueger (47:47)

Professional guidance because every time I get the client that says I did this and I'm like oh, why? As far as inheritance, I want to Just one tip if I could tell the whole world this is don't try to do your own estate planning by shifting assets from mom and dad before they pass away. I see this a lot where they're like oh, we did our own estate planning and I'm on the titan and I'm like no a you've just shot yourself in the foot with the step up in basis. So now what could have been a tax free inheritance, right? You can get rid of capital gains and inheritance is not subject to tax for the recipient. There's no tax for the person receiving the inheritance. But if you've changed title gifts have what's known as carryover basis.

Marianella Collado (48:34)

I talked about that once furnished when. When or somebody was talking about the fact of oh, I'm an adult child. My parent is talking about putting me on as a on the title of the house and the answer is a hard no, don't do it just for the reasons that Nella mentioned. Because you want to inherit, you want to get that step up. Whereas if you sold it and your parent died and you were on the title, you are going to pay humongous tax.

Pam Krueger (49:02)

I had a call not too long ago and it's all we are we put my mom's house up for sale. It's gon sell for a million dollars. I said oh that's great. When did she pass away and say, oh, she passed away three weeks ago. I'm sorry for your loss. I said that's great. So then you would get step up in basis property in her name when she passed. Oh no, we had put it in my name five years ago. I'm like, oh my God. So he basically a gift carries over its original basis to the recipient of that gift. It's not like a bequest or an inheritance. So that's one thing I want to make sure people don't put your kids on the title. Don't.

Farnoosh Kharabi (49:38)

Why do they think that's a good thing? They think, they' it's just this seems.

Marianella Collado (49:43)

To be going to be more direct. They think, they think, why would I wait until my parent dies? That it opens up a can of worms. Imagine you have a husband and he go, and you're the person owning the house. You're the parent and you're now your son in law is telling you, oh, you can't do that kitchen renovation mom in law, because I now own part of this house. Oh my God, no, don't do it.

Pam Krueger (50:06)

Yeah. And the other thing people don't realize is your primary residence usually has the highest level of assets protection. Like here in Florida, your homestead is sacred. And once you've added another person to that title, you've now opened your exposure to the creditors and predators of this other person whose house this is not their primary residence. So they don't get the same level of asset protection as you do because it's your primary residence. So that's one thing on inheritance. And I always see these fouls. And then you had asked about bonuses and lump sum payments that are taxable. There's usually some planning opportunity with bonus. W2 is a W2. It's probably the hardest thing to plan around with. But even there you can look to maximize contributions to employer provided programs. Look at things that you can do that are above the line deductions in a year where there's a potentially a big windfall. I just had a client yesterday, he's looking at an employment opportunity with a private equity backed company. He's like, oh, are there things I should consider? I said, oh my God, yes. If there's one thing you're gonna do is you're gonna do this little thing known as an 83B election. He said, what is this? I said they're gonna pay. Some of your comp is gonna be made up of units in this, in, in this company. And so because it's a startup, usually the value of these shares when they first hire you is zero. So you're gonna do a little 83B election and you're gonna say here I IRS, even though I have invested in these units that they just gave me, I want to go ahead and report this as taxable income today based on the value of the shares today, which I just told you is zero.

Marianella Collado (51:50)

It's graduate school tax plan. But it's true that I did it myself. I did the 83B election myself because my business is a startup.

Pam Krueger (51:59)

And so what you're doing is you have converted what is would be ordinary income at the time of invest. You've created that that growth in value from ordinary income to long term capital gain. So you went from potentially 37% tax rate to 23.8. It's just and it's a little form and I see people miss it all the time.

Farnoosh Kharabi (52:21)

I could have benefited from that at some point in my career or many points in my career. Oh boy. Okay. You live, you learn, you listen to so many, you learn. Thank you both so much, Pam Krueger and Nella. This was so, such an important episode. This is big stuff we're talking about and I appreciate the audience for trusting us and asking us these questions. More next week. Thank you.

Pam Krueger (52:43)

Thank you. So much fun. Thank you.

Farnoosh Kharabi (52:46)

And that's our show. If you like what you're listening to. Remember, leave a Review Subscribe Tell your friends Share I hope your weekend is so money.

Pam Krueger (52:59)

Foreign.

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