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- [00:00]
Ryan Seacrest
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- [01:58]
Farnoosh Torabi
So Money Episode 1870 what it's like to retire on almost nothing but Social Security.
- [02:06]
So Money Intro Narrator
You're listening to so Money with award winning money guru Farnoosh Torabi. Each day get a 30 minute dose of financial inspiration from the world's top business minds, authors, influencers and from Farnoosh yourself. Looking for ways to save on gas or double your double coupons Sorry, you're in the wrong place. Seeking profound ways to live a richer, happier life. Welcome to SO money.
- [02:32]
Ann Tergeson
We felt like it was important after having profiled people who retire after saving a million, two million dollars, a half a million dollars, we felt like it was important to look at people who retire after basically having saved almost nothing. And that's where this one came in, because thanks to Social Security, the vast majority of people in this country do actually have a retirement income.
- [02:56]
Farnoosh Torabi
Welcome to SO MONEY, everyone. I'm Farnoosh Tarabi. If you're listening to this show, my guess is you care about your future, your financial future. You've already started to look at retirement and what it's going to cost. Imagine, though, you arrive at retirement and you have nothing saved. Zero. What do you do? This is our show. Today. We're going to talk to one reporter at the Wall Street Journal, Ann Tergeson, who met up with a number of Americans across the country living on just their Social Security paycheck. They had zero saved. They had otherwise $0 saved for retirement, and they're not working in their retirement to supplement their income. How are they doing that? According to ann's article, in 1940, when the program was just launched, Social Security replaced just over 20% of a typical worker's income at age 65, probably because they had a pension. As Congress enhanced the benefits, that figure rose to about 50% in the early 1980s. Today, Social Security replaces about 40% of a person's income at 65 and that average monthly Social Security check, $1,900. Imagine living on just $1,900 a month in your 60s, 70s, and beyond. I have a link to the Wall Street Journal article in our show Notes for more. But now let's hear from Wall Street Journal reporter Ann Tergeson. Ann Tergeson, welcome to Sew money. Great to have you here. Really interested, excited to dive into your recent pie for the Wall Street Journal with Veronica Dagger on what it's like to actually retire on Social Security and nothing but Social Security. Welcome.
- [04:34]
Ann Tergeson
Thanks for having me.
- [04:35]
Farnoosh Torabi
First, tell us a little bit about what led you to wanting to write this piece. So many people in the audience and everywhere are curious, confused about Social Security. A lot of people here on the show ask about whether it's even going to be around by the time they're ready to retire, even though they are paying into it. And I have a hunch that this probably something that your team at the Journal thinks about a lot. So tell us about the genesis of this piece and then we'll get into it.
- [05:05]
Ann Tergeson
Sure. So this is the latest in a series that Veronica and I are writing where we look at. We usually profile four people and they usually fit into some kind of category. So in the past we have done people who retire after having saved a million dollars or after having saved $2 million or you know, a half a million dol. So we've done these various sort of savings levels and we've also looked at people who fit into a certain theme. For example, people who retire and then move abroad or people who retire and then they move on to their RV or their boat. So it's been a lot of fun. So this, we felt like it was important after having profiled people who retire after saving a million, two million dollars, a half a million dollars. We felt like it was important to look at people who retire after basically having saved almost nothing. And that's where this one came in. Because thanks to Social Security, the vast majority of people in this country do actually have a retirement income waiting for them and they don't. It's obviously not great to not save anything on top of that, but a lot of people don't.
- [06:16]
Farnoosh Torabi
You highlighted your article quite early on in the piece that 1 in 7 Social Security recipients ages 65 and older depend on their benefits for nearly all their income. That's according to an RP analysis. Did that surprise you?
- [06:30]
Ann Tergeson
No, not really. I, I've been covering retirement for years and know the statistics and for people who are it it's hard for me because I haven't done a deep dive into the data. But for people who have lower incomes, Social Security actually can replace a significant portion of your income. So there's not necessarily a huge incentive to save more. Obviously it's great if you can. A lot of people who have lower incomes just don't really have the flexibility to save a significant sum on top of that.
- [07:02]
Farnoosh Torabi
So you profiled with Veronica Several people, including 70 year old Eric Miller, who was a professional chef and now he's living on $1,400 a month. That's his Social Security check. And then you have Kathy rote, who is 73 and living off of her paycheck of 1,040 per month. Kathy was an advocate for people with disabilities her entire adult life. She's a retired social worker. If you had to summariz some of the themes along the lines of the strategies that these folks were implementing, are implementing because to be honest, that's what I walked away really appreciating about these profiles. Ann is just how creative these people have to be to afford, not just the basics, because some of them do have active social lives. What were some of the takeaways you found and how they were going about designing their lives in this retirement where they're mainly living off of Social Security?
- [07:59]
Ann Tergeson
Sure. So I'd love to talk about Kathy. She's one of the two people who I interviewed and she's just a wonderful person to talk to. A very interesting life that she's had, which is the case for most of the people who we end up profiling in this series. You just, you realize how everybody's had like a very interesting life. Just, it's just been fascinating to talk to people. So Kathy really, as you mentioned, she's been an advocate for people with disabilities her adult life. She worked for years for a nonprofit in San Francisco area that was at the forefront of helping people with disabilities live independently. And Kathy was in charge of their housing program. So she's also a social worker. So she, she has a lot of knowledge of the world of how people can get hooked up with benefits that might help them. And she herself has done that to a decent extent. For example, she actually owns her house thanks to an inheritance she got years ago. But before inheriting that property, she was able to qualify for Section 8 housing, which is a federal program that subsidizes housing. She also has been able to qualify for federal programs that help her with her Medicare costs, her prescription drug costs, and those are the ones that directly come to mind. But she was just a font of knowledge of all these different programs that people, lower income seniors can qualify for. And there is, there's a tool out there called elder care locator and there's a network of, I think they're called Area Agencies on Aging that, that can help people hook up with local programs. I actually spoke to this great nonprofit up in Maine that routinely helps low income seniors up there. And I think actually people of all ages get help with their utility bills which during the winter up there, they're going to be. Your utility bills are going to be really high. So that was one strategy that I felt like needed to be highlighted. And I was really happy that Kathy was willing to talk to us because she was just the master at navigating those things.
- [10:07]
Farnoosh Torabi
And really by virtue of what she did during her full time working years, nice coincidence for those who aren't tapped in like Kathy is because of just the nature of the job that she has had as a social worker, being more familiar with some of these subsidies and government provisions. Do you find, Ann, that typically seniors and retirees are scrambling or don't have the directionality when it comes to finding and securing these resources which whether you're living on Social Security or not, can be immensely helpful?
- [10:41]
Ann Tergeson
Let's buy. I felt it was important for us in the introduction of this article to mention this elder care locator tool and an organization called USA Aging, which I think is tapped into these. I think there may be county or local area agencies on aging because those are the places where people, those are among the places that people can go to find out about these programs that maybe can help them subsidize some of their costs.
- [11:10]
Farnoosh Torabi
Did you find that some folks had to move? I know that with all retirees they often look at their financial picture and think about where they live. It's such a huge variable, costly variable. Especially if they're looking to still live where they were, say raising their kids and the property taxes were high. What role did their location play in their ability to afford life on Social Security?
- [11:33]
Ann Tergeson
Oh, on Social Security I would say in general it's been very eye opening to me to see how well it works for people who retire or who worked for years and raised their kids in high cost parts of the country. For example, the New York metropolitan area and then in retirement they move somewhere else. So there was a man I spoke to who retired with a million dollars in savings, but he moved from the New York metropolitan area to North Carolina and his property taxes went from around $15,000 a year. This was back like maybe 15 years ago. And in North Carolina I think they're more like, I can't remember the exact number but more like four or five thousand dollars a year. So right there that just shows you how helpful it can be to move to a cheaper part of the country. Big ticket expenses like property taxes for people who are living on Social Security, maybe they're renting. But still there there are going to be like ways that cost of living wise that they can save by moving to a cheaper part of the country. And I think a lot of people do that in retirement. I don't know the fraction. It's certainly probably far less than half because people, if you live in a certain area, your friends and maybe a lot of your relatives are there. So there's a lot of incentives to stay in a high cost area. But that's certainly a very powerful strategy.
- [12:52]
Farnoosh Torabi
Going back to Kathy, you profiled her, she lives in Tucson. She's the retired social worker who is disabled. Just want to Recap for listeners. Some of the ways that she's been able to make ends meet. So you mentioned she had an inheritance. She bought a home with about $60,000 that her uncle left her. She has no debt. And because of her age and her income, she gets discounts on her property taxes, utilities, wireless bills. You said that she spends about $135 a month for gas and electric and phone service. She spends about $200 a month on food. When you spoke with her, what was the sense that you got in terms of how she's enjoying her life? Does she feel like retirement's been fulfilling?
- [13:34]
Ann Tergeson
Oh, she's. Yeah, I think she really is. She has, she had polio as a, as an infant, actually, and she's always had to get around with the aid of crutches when she was young. And now she has a motorized wheelchair. She actually had to stop working, I believe, in her mid-40s because of something called post polio syndrome, which was, it really was, I think, very draining and exhausting. And so she found it hard to have the stamina to work eight hours a day. But she's just, she's got this just like very upbeat mentality. She's very can do. She has a, it's an old van, but it's equipped with a lift for her wheelchair. So she is able to get around, run her own errands. She's very independent, and that's been a theme throughout her life. She also, interestingly, before she got recruited to work at the nonprofit for people with disabilities in California, she, she was a folk singer. And this was back in the 70s, and she was very involved. She had gone to college in the Tucson area. She was very involved in the folk music scene there. And so like with many retirees where, you know, you have an interest early in life, she was actually considering becoming a folk singer as her profession. So obviously she was quite good. And a lot of people who put aside interests when they're young to pursue a career, they, they return to that later in life. And she did. When she came back to Tucson, she got very plugged into the folk music scene again. And she loves having friends and come over and they have dinner on her patio. They sing, they, they have a good time.
- [15:14]
Farnoosh Torabi
And.
- [15:14]
Ann Tergeson
And she's been also just very involved in her neighborhood. And so she needs some help a couple hours a week. And she got hooked up with a program, I believe, through Medicaid, but I'm not positive that enables her to get some help and get reimbursed for some of the costs involved. And so she's made it a practice to hire people who she knows from the neighborhood. So that's been twofold purpose. One is that she gets the help she needs. The second is that she's really getting to know her neighbors and she's really enjoyed that. And some of her neighbors have needed help in turn. Like there was a woman who's helped her who was moving, and so Kathy helped her out by helping her move using Kathy's van. So I think her life is very full.
- [15:58]
Farnoosh Torabi
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- [18:18]
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- [18:56]
Ann Tergeson
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- [19:27]
Farnoosh Torabi
You bring up a really important point about getting to know your neighbors. I was reporting on climate change and the cost of climate change a couple of years ago, and what I learned is that it's really important for retirees as well, especially if they're looking to relocate. They're getting older to go to areas where there is infrastructure for disaster relief that they know they have ways to communicate and connect with members of the community who can help them. There are pipelines, there are accessible resources, especially if you're disabled or you live alone and you may not have someone to immediately go to for necessities. I think AARP actually ranks towns across America based on this disaster preparedness as it would relate to somebody who's retired. Let's talk about some of the other folks you profiled with Veronica. I'm looking right now at Joyce McKinney, 77. You write that she's living off of $1,800 a month that's her Social Security check. She lives in Philadelphia and she's doing this mainly by downsizing. She pays $343 a month for a storage unit and then her rent is 584 per month. She subsidizes her senior transportation for a dollar a ride, which helps her get to most places. Her food budget is 200amonth.
- [20:45]
Ann Tergeson
Yeah, I think Joyce, she's very involved in a senior center there. If I remember. This was not one of my interviews. But she, yeah, she also seemed like a very positive can do woman. And I believe her husband died and left her a widow and she was forced to sell their home and to low income senior housing. She discovered, I believe the senior center where I think she spends a lot of time and that offers her either very low cost source of food that she's. And also just like a network of friends and activities that she seems to really enjoy. But yeah, again I feel like this, one of the strategies that she was able to tap into there is in some cases like subsidies for some of the critical expenses that people have such as housing and food.
- [21:31]
Farnoosh Torabi
Were you able to see how well or if at all these seniors were able to save money? Because still important, right to save in retirement for unexpected costs. I know some in my world who are in their 70s and older have reserves for funeral costs, for example. Did you have those conversations? Do they feel prepared for what ifs?
- [21:49]
Ann Tergeson
So this is again where I was so impressed with Kathy because she has these property taxes that she has to pay. Right. And she already gets a subsidy by virtue of being, I believe, her age and possibly her age and income. She's done what she can to reduce those costs. But usually property taxes are paid once a year, maybe once every six months, depending on the locality. And so that's where people can really get, have trouble. Right. If they don't budget for that, then you know, when it comes time to pay the property taxes, maybe they don't have enough money in that account. So Kathy is very careful to set aside that money every month to make sure that she has it there when she needs needs to pay. Because once you get behind on your property taxes then, you know, then you are at risk of potentially being evicted at some point. So yeah, so that was, that was one example of when I do think it's when you're talking about people living on Social Security benefits. That's where I think cost of living can really come into play. I have spoken to people who are living on Social Security benefits in pretty inexpensive parts of the country and they might have an easier job putting some money aside on a Social Security type budget. But in a place like Philadelphia, I could only imagine that would be pretty difficult. But I can't speak to whether Joyce did or not. I'm just saying there's a real difference in cost of living there between say, Tucson and Philadelphia.
- [23:12]
Farnoosh Torabi
I will say too that what really struck me with Joyce's profile again, Joyce is the single woman living in Philly on 1800amonth. You mentioned that her husband died unexpectedly and she had to learn how to acclimate to that financially and in other ways. But she had regrets. Like she didn't realize that boosting her earnings during her working years could have raised her Social Security benefits. She wished she had more literacy. She would have gone for bigger jobs that paid more or had asked for raises. She regrets not pursuing higher education, so maybe she could earn more. When you interviewed people for your article, did you feel like they thought this wasn't supposed to be the plan? I didn't think I was going to have to simply live on Social Security. I think one person thought he was just going to continue working in retirement, but then his body gave out because it's hard. As you get older, you think, you imagine you're going to be able to do all these things in hindsight. Did you talk about some of the steps they wish they had taken or thought about prior to retiring so they wouldn't have to be on such strict budgets?
- [24:14]
Ann Tergeson
Yeah, I think it's very common. That was Eric who thought he was going to be able to work for longer than he ended up being able to. He had. He was the chef. That's obviously a very physically demanding job. So. Yeah, and that happens a lot that in the national statistics, there's a survey that I follow that, you know, is very. It's a very good representative sample of people. They've been doing it for years and years, I think since the early 90s. And. And every single year I see in the statistics that people who retired expected that they were going to work a couple years longer than they actually did. Things come up not for the retiree themselves, some kind of health issue or physical limitation. Often people have to retire early to take care of relatives who are having health problems. And also there's layoffs that happen and it's harder for older people to find. To find employment once they're unemployed. So there are a number of factors and that actually is quite common. So yes, I think there are. The topic of regrets came up with some of These people and, but not with others. So Joyce, yes, she had that regret. I do think it's important to point out that people who are married have the advantage of being able to. While both spouses are alive, you obviously can draw Social Security from both of their earnings records. When the first spouse dies, the higher benefit goes to the survivor. So there is a little bit of a. Built into Social Security, a little bit of a cushion for people who are widows or widowers in that regard. So she, Joyce did have these regrets about education level that maybe she would have benefited from pursuing higher paid jobs.
- [26:00]
Farnoosh Torabi
There's another woman I spoke to, Barbara Talisman, 63. She's a self described nomad.
- [26:08]
Ann Tergeson
Yeah, she really was an outlier in this group, both because of her age, because she was younger and also because of her approach. She actually had quite well paying jobs. She's a college graduate. But she just, she never really saved a significant amount for most of her career. She and her ex husband had this very. They loved to travel and they just had an attitude where if they had extra money they would jump on a plane and go to Paris for the weekend and they would go to Australia on vacation. They lived in Chicago, so they were just constantly looking for ways to get out of the cold weather. And she just, that is her passion through and through for her whole life is traveling. And so she gets to retirement and she has some money that she's managed to put away. Actually in the course of talking to her, as the market went up and up, her nest egg went from something, I can't remember the exact numbers, but something like 130,000 to in the upper 100 thousands. So her strategy is not to draw too much on that nest egg. She does draw, I think it worked out to be like an average of $800 a month from her savings, which is not insignificant. And then she has her Social Security on top of that. But her strategy was to cut out housing entirely. She is a nomad and she, through various websites, she will house it for people and through word of mouth. And so sometimes she ends up.
- [27:36]
Farnoosh Torabi
You can go on a 90 day cruise, right? That's a thing.
- [27:40]
Ann Tergeson
Yes, yes. And she's launching a career as sort of a side gig as a travel agent. Yes. So she, she is traveling at length. She went to Australia one winter and she was house sitting for most of that. So she will look for these house sitting gigs to trade her labor in terms of taking care of somebody's house, often pets.
- [27:58]
Farnoosh Torabi
And I just want to let everyone know that you can Go onto the Social Security website, so much fun, SSA and see your estimated Social Security monthly payments in retirement. They do the calculations for you based on your work history, your future work and when you want to start collecting. I can call this fun, right? It's always fun to go and see what am I going to make in my future. And do I believe that we'll be getting this? Yes, I better be because if not, I've been paying into this for 20 years. If we're not getting this, if I'm not getting this, I'm going to be wreaking havoc. There will be pitch forks in the streets.
- [28:35]
Ann Tergeson
I Exactly. That is the point, right, that I think that Congress is going to be reluctant to mess too much with the benefits of people who've already paid in, especially those who've paid in for years and historically. Actually, I read an article about this because there are a lot of people out there who have this idea that they need to claim the moment they become eligible at age 62 because otherwise they're fearful that somehow the money's going to be taken away from them. And it's, it's a little bit of a complicated, nuanced story, but if you look back to the 80s when Congress last changed, did an effort, a run at help buttressing Social Security's finances, they did take away, they did whittle away a little bit of the benefits of people who were already claiming Social Security. But by and large they really did not mess with that. And people who claimed early, that's not necessarily all that protective. I think people really need to think about the value of delaying Social Security because for every year that you delay, they adjust your benefits upwards by somewhere between 6 and 8%. That's a guaranteed, very close to a guaranteed 6 to 8% increase per year in addition to the cost of living, the inflation increase that Social Security builds in. So it's a very attractive strategy to wait to claim if you can afford to.
- [30:00]
Farnoosh Torabi
Yes, that's a really important point. Thank you for raising that and thank you so much for this series, Ann. Please keep us in touch. We'd love to get a closer look at all of your real life stories because there's nothing more inspiring than hearing how people are making ends meet and then some potentially. I really just once again love how creative and resourceful these seniors that you found are being. They're doing the unimaginable which is living on their Social Security checks, everybody. If you want to read the article, I've got it linked in our show notes. Thanks so much Ann.
- [30:33]
Ann Tergeson
Thanks for having me.
- [30:36]
Farnoosh Torabi
Thanks so much to Ann Tergeson for joining us. The Wall Street Journal piece that she and Veronica Dagger wrote is called here's what it's like to Retire on Almost Nothing But Social Security. That article linked in our Show Notes. Also in our Show Notes. If you're interested in getting more advice from me, more access to me, and connecting with like minded peers who care about their financial wellness, I have something very special that I've developed. You can enroll in my so Money Members Club Every month. I'm going to be offering free live financial trainings, a live office hour where you can walk in and ask me anything you want. Everything's recorded. There's also lots of engagement and questions getting answered in our online community. Check out somoneymembers.com for all the information and to secure your spot today. Thanks for tuning in. I hope your day is so Money.
- [31:42]
CarGurus Spokesperson
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- [32:01]
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