Commercial Actor (2:26)

You're listening to so Money with award winning money guru Farnoosh Torabi. Each day get a 30 minute dose of financial inspiration from the world's top business minds, authors, influencers, and from Farnoosh yourselves. Looking for ways to save on gas or double your double coupons. Sorry, you're in the wrong place. Seeking profound ways to live a richer, happier life. Welcome to so Money.

Farnoosh Torabi (2:52)

Welcome to so Money, everybody. I'm Farnoosh Tarabi. It is Friday, October 10th, 2025. I'm dedicating today's show to all things debt relief because we're living in a time when many of us are carrying more debt than ever. Whether that's a mortgage, credit cards, student loans, auto debt. It's totaling over $17.6 trillion right now. And that's according to the latest Fed data. Credit card balances alone have topped a trillion dollars. We're at a, we're at 1.1 trillion. And the delinquencies are also on the rise, especially among our younger borrowers. So I'm answering your most pressing questions about debt relief today, from when to pause investing to address your debt. Whether to use a home equity loan to pay off student loans. Another question in the audience about how to tackle credit card balances when they're really high. And how do you get a good car loan these days? What's a good way to ensure a good interest rate, a good term? We have questions from many people in the audience. I went onto my Instagram yesterday. I know a little last minute, but we can be nimble around here. I asked you all what were your debt questions, and many of you came in with some good questions, which is just reinforcing the importance of doing this episode. It's very timely. And the questions were running the gamut from all everything I talked about and more, all different aspects of debt management. I've got a link created for you called somoneylinks.com with tons of resources, tons of ways to compare rates for loans, to compare rates for savings accounts, to get some professional debt relief, if that's something that you want to consider. One of the questions I did get from Marco in the audience is should I consider working with a debt relief program? I'm getting ads. I have about $37,000 in credit card debt, another $200,000 in student loans. I guess Ms. Might be a student loan from a law school or something. But he says, what should I do for our new and so I want to start with that because I'm Going to give a lot of advice on how to DIY your debt situation, your debt struggles, your debt relief. But if you do want to work with an agency or a professional, there are some things to look out for. Because debt relief programs, they run the gamut. They're not all created equal. They can be a lifeline, though, for those of us who feel really overwhelmed and we can't keep up with them. Payments. The right programs that I think are worthy of your time and money also, because they do take some fees, they help you negotiate lower interest rates, they waive those fees, they help you waive those fees, and they will even help you consolidate multiple debts into a single structured plan with a clear end date. That's often managed through a nonprofit credit counseling agency. But you have to vet these programs really carefully first. I like organizations that are nonprofit and accredited. For example, the national foundation For credit counseling, NFCC.org is fantastic. Avoid companies that promise to erase or settle your debt for pennies on the dollar, because those often do come with high fees. They might damage your credit. And ask for a written plan that clearly states how long the repayment may take, what it will cost, and how it will affect your credit. There is also the pathway of reaching out to your lenders yourself. And the thing that people like about debt relief is that there's advocacy built into that. But if you want to do this yourself, essentially it's calling all of your lenders and your credit card companies and your loan providers and saying, hey, I'd like to look at modification plans or is there a way to reduce my interest rate or get rid of some of the fees if your income has dropped a lot since you've been carrying this debt. Some credit card companies offer relief or hardship programs. They're not heavily advertised, but they can be a great way to alleviate some of that struggle due to maybe a job loss or an illness or some other financial setback. These programs might be able to lower your interest rates or temporarily waive the interest. They might suspend minimum payments and allow smaller payments. And in some cases, too, they'll work with a credit counseling agency to help you consolidate your payments into a reduced monthly plan. Okay, let's get to your specific questions that came through mainly through two ways. Instagram. Thank you for following me there. @ Farnooshtrabi and also members of my so Money members club, I give them priority on Fridays to send me their questions. I'm also in the club answering questions on an as needed basis. I have office hours every month for my members. You can learn more about that@somoneymembers.com let's start with their questions. So first a question from Mary. Should I stay self employed or get a job? I'm in a place where if I could have reliable income for six months, that would help pay off my credit card debt and my bills. I'm passionate about what I do, yet it's been a hard year selling consistently. I'm a leadership and wellness coach. I'm licensed in Medical Acupuncture. FYI, I do have emergency savings of about 2 months. I have shared savings with my fiance, about $33,000. He wants to take our CD and invest in bitcoin. And I never thought I'd say this, but now I'm curious about it too, given what's happening in the world. All right, so that's a lot. There's a question about potentially investing in bitcoin. Do I, do I switch jobs? Do I try to get a job to pay off my debt? But I'm here for this. Let's start with the broader picture. Mary. Okay, so it's no secret a lot of Americans are turning and have been turning to freelance work or self employment work. But at the same time, these payment delinquencies are rising and many households are struggling to manage inconsistent income. With being self employed. There's a lot of flexibility and you're getting to manage your own time. But if you have a quiet month or two or three, but then you have a big payday, that's hard to manage, especially in a world where we have a lot of inflation and unexpected costs. So I get that you're looking for some stability. Stability wins for now. And I would say that if taking a job, even temporarily could give you a clear Runway, a clear timeline over the next six months of how much is coming in and what you're going to be able to afford to address the debt and rebuild your savings, I think that's a really strong move. Here's how I would approach it. I would look at this full time or part time job as a short term bridge to building stability that secure, consistent income is the goal. Right. You're looking for a job and, but I, but at the same time, I wouldn't abandon your coaching practice, your leadership practice. Keep a foot in your business. Maybe you just reduce your hours there. You don't want to risk getting too quiet on that side of your professional life. Because what I'm hearing is that you have intentions maybe to go back, that this is just a kind of a, a Bridge now with your savings, I want, I would love for you to keep that safe. Bitcoin, I know it can be attractive in uncertain times, but I look at that as a real, an alternative investment. Really, I wouldn't risk it. And I'm being completely honest with you. If my husband came to me and said, let's buy bitcoin, I'd be like, sure, let's make sure this is money that you can roll the dice with. And if you lost all of it tomorrow, you wouldn't regret it. I mean, in the context of having debt just feels like a misappropriation to me. So I wouldn't gamble it right now. Bitcoin is extremely volatile. I would use that cash as your emergency run rate right now. Be grateful that you have it. Why would you excuse my French? Piss it off in Bitcoin. And if you want to blame me and tell your partner, like Farnoosh said, don't do it. Like, I'm happy to be the fall guy here for you, but with everything you've just told me, I don't think this is the move for now. Maybe down the road, once you have gotten rid of the debt and you have more than a two month savings cushion, you can look at alternative investments, including bitcoin and other things. And I just want to say this too, that this pivot doesn't mean that you've failed. It means that you're figuring it out, you're being strategic. I don't want this to be at all crushing to you. Everyone gets into debt, including me. And sometimes you have to make hard choices that at the time can feel like you're giving up on things like you're giving up on in this case, maybe paying attention to your practice and shifting focus to a full time job, which is not maybe ideal, but you're looking at it as a strategic pivot. This is going to be a short term thing because I know that it's going to help me have more consistent income to pay off the debt. That is super responsible. And, and I like this for you. Thanks, Mary. And we'll talk more in the club. Also from the so Money members club, Megan, I told them I was talking about debt today and she wrote immediately. She wrote. I am all ears on this topic as usual. Given the economic uncertainty right now, government shutdowns and the job market, what is the prevailing wisdom about prioritizing debt pay down versus bulking up an emergency fund? If you know that you need to do both, assuming one's job and income is relatively stable, also Once you set those priorities, how often should you look to reevaluate or rebalance your approach? All right, Megan, really excellent question. I think you're channeling a lot of people here with this question. There's always this concern about, am I doing enough with my debt versus my savings? How do I balance this if I have a good paying job? I have this privilege now to pay attention to both things. But is there one area that takes priority? So here's a framework, okay? And anyone listening who wants to consider this framework, it's just a suggestion, but I think can help you get a running start. If you have less than three months of your bare bones living expenses shored up in an account. If you have less than that, I want you to focus on that. That's the priority. Cash is your safety net. And I don't think we're in a recession right now, but we could be. We are due for one for sure. And I'm really skeptical of where the stock market's been. I'm like, when is this thing gonna come down? Because it's uncanny, right, how much the market has gone up this year, despite the fact that I know a lot of people are looking for work, despite the fact that I know prices are going up and credit card delinquencies, as we just talked about, are going up. But anyway, once you hit that baseline, you want to divide that money that you were pooling towards savings and divide it by 70, 30, 70% towards the high interest debt, 30% still towards savings. So you're continuing to save, but now the priority has shifted to the high interest credit card debt. When to reassess, I'd say every three to six months. Questions to ask during that reassessment, ask yourself, did my expenses go up? Has have interest rates changed? Because maybe if interest rates have changed, you can look at shifting some of the debt over to lower interest debt or asking your credit company for a reduced interest rate. So the goal is to never stop saving until you hit about six months to nine months of your bare bones living expenses shored up. And then once you've hit that goal, then you can just go full speed paying off the debt. I don't know how much debt Megan is talking about, if it's a lot, and we're talking high interest. This framework, you might want to pair it with what we talked about earlier, which is looking at how you can knock down the interest rates or get on some sort of management plan through debt relief or your own advocacy, calling your creditors and asking for some Breathing room. All right, over on Instagram, a lot of good questions. I want to start with Brittany here. Who says, what is the best way to tackle a large amount of credit card debt? Yeah, the average person right now is carrying debt, about $7,300 in credit card debt, which is up about 6% from last year. About 14% of borrowers are behind on at least one payment. So this is a national issue. Here's my advice. You want to get organized, okay, so look at the totality of the debt that you are facing, which is hard for a lot of us. We don't want to look at the numbers. I've worked with so many people that just throw their bills into the drawers or they don't open paperless statements, or I just can't. I cannot do this. But if you can't face the debt, you can't face the debt payoff. So face the full picture. List every card, every balance, every rate, and what is that minimum payment? Then it's about picking your strategy. There's two major strategies, right? There's the avalanche method, which is you pay off the highest interest card first to save honestly the most money. It's your most expensive debt, that card with the highest interest rate. So in mathematical terms, it makes the most sense to address that first. And that doesn't mean you're not paying the minimums on the other cards. It means that with this highest interest rate card, you're putting far more than the minimum towards it. Maybe triple, quadruple the minimum. If it's a $200 minimum, you're putting $500 towards that debt every single month. Because it's your highest interest debt, it's got the highest carrying costs. Alternatively, there's the snowball method, which is more of a psychological boost for those of us who want to kind of feel more motivated. If we are facing a mountain of debt and we don't know where to start, and we don't even know if we can do it. Pay off the smallest balance first. This helps you feel accomplished quickly, and it does give you that dopamine boost, that excitement to go, okay, I got this. I'm gonna do this. And maybe at that point, you go to Avalanche, but the snowball method kind of kicks things into gear. Pay off that smallest balance. It's not maybe your highest interest rate card, but it's something that you can hopefully do relatively quickly and then maybe move on to the next highest balance. You may want to consolidate if you can, if you have a good credit score. Many of us can qualify. And what do I mean by good? Like I would say 680, 700 or higher. You can try to qualify for a 0% balance transfer card which you can typically repay the debt within 12 to 18 months interest free. After that 18 month introductory rate, 0% rate, period, it jumps to whatever the market rate is. And usually it's at this point, if it was going to happen today, it's 20 plus percent. So not a good idea to hold on to zero percent balance transfer cards for too long. The goal is to optimize by taking advantage of that 0% introductory rate. Another option for consolidating is a fixed rate personal loan which has a predictable payoff date, usually a smaller rate than what you know the average of your credit card rates are. But again, for this you do want to make sure you have good standing credit. And then some people just stop using their cards, which may seem obvious, but no, people continue to sometimes use their cards while they're trying to pay off debt. And I think that's a slippery slope, counterproductive, especially if we're talking about piles and piles of debt. Switching to cash or debit until the debt, the credit card debt is more stable, knocked down is probably wise. I know that's a pain in the butt because everything is connected to credit cards now. But if you can make this adjustment, it will be a, an intentional barrier between you and the credit cards. Back in the 90s, before we had all these websites, people would put their credit cards in the freezer. Now that doesn't even matter because everything's digitized and you can connect your credit card online. If it's already connected to all the sites, what does it matter if it's in the freezer, it's on the computer, it's on the Internet. But that illustrates that back then that's what worked for people. I think that can still work, but we just have to make the effort to disconnect our credit cards from all of the different websites, which can take a minute and we may not even remember where it's all connected. But this is a behavioral trick. This will definitely save you some money. And then finally consider credit counseling debt relief. You can go to so many links dot com, by the way. So many Links is a website that has some of my stuff, but also some websites that have been curated by the editors at Money magazine where they have listed out, for example, the best sites to get high yield savings, the best sites to look at debt relief programs, the best sites for car loan rates and so on, and so forth. That's all recommended through them. And you know, I started my whole career at Money magazine. So Money magazine and I go way, way back. I trust them as reputable sources in personal finance. So we've partnered and I've created a page called so Money Links that takes you to all these various sites, including some of my own sites. If you want my free investing blueprint. If you want to sign up for my newsletter, that's all there too. Just I needed to consolidate all of that. I had too many different sites and somoneylinks. Com and especially for this episode where we're talking about debt, I've put the debt relief link at the very top. But like I said, proceed with eyes and ears open. If you have questions about any of these debt relief programs, you can email me Farnooshowmoneypodcast.com or DM me on Instagram we have these neighbors who spend an entire month in Germany each year visiting family and friends. I'm only slightly jealous. They talk about wandering through the Christmas markets with a mug of mulled wine in hand and taking long train rides through Bavaria to soak in the castles and mountain views. But while they're gone, their house just sits empty. The financial expert in me can't help but wonder how much they could benefit from hosting their home on Airbnb. Thanks to the Airbnb Co Host network, you can connect with a trusted local co host who takes care of the entire process for you. Even if you are away or don't live in the same state as your property. They'll manage reservations, greet guests, even handle styling and support. It's like having a reliable partner who who knows exactly how to make guests feel welcome while you get to focus on enjoying your own trip. So if you've got a house that's empty during travel or seasonal downtime, becoming a host could be a great next step for you. Find a co host@airbnb.com host you know how fall has a way of slowing us down. The days get shorter, the nights cooler, and at home, it's all about cozy evenings, restorative rituals, and making your space feel like a sanctuary. For for me, that started with Bole and Branch. Their signature sheets are the perfect foundation for creating comfort this season. They're buttery soft right out of the package, and the best part? They get even softer with every wash. They're breathable too, so you can layer on blankets without ever feeling too hot or heavy. And they're made with the highest quality 100% organic cotton in durable designs this fall. 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Farnoosh Torabi (24:33)

All right, next question from Dr. Marari on Instagram. Should I get a home equity line of credit to pay off $160,000 in student loans? The rates for the student loans, I believe she's saying, are anywhere from 4 to 6% on average. So a lot of people like the option of borrowing against their home to pay off a high interest debt. This, though, does not sound like high interest debt to me. And also compared to where HELOCs currently stand, the average rate on a home equity line of credit is anywhere from 8 to 9%. And that's according to a lot of the major banks. And so that's more than your current student loan rates of 4 to 6%. How a HELOC works is you typically can borrow against the equity in your home, up to 80% of the equity in your home. You have to go through an application process. They have to check your debt to income ratio, your credit score. All of that important stuff before banks agree to give this to you, but then once they give it to you is essentially like a credit card, a line of credit you can borrow against. This line of credit to pay for things people like to use this for, like home renovations, because the rates are lower than credit cards. But are they lower than student loans in this case? It doesn't really sound like it. So financially, mathematically, it doesn't make sense. And then the other thing about the HELOC versus student loans is the risk factor. So student loans are unsecured. Your home is not the collateral. A home equity line of credit, on the other hand, does use your home as security. So if you miss payments, you could jeopardize your homeownership. And this 4 to 6% range that Dr. Marari, you're talking about, it sounds to me like these are federal loans. So have you looked into federal protections that come with many student loans? Income driven repayment or potential forgiveness? So here's a quick list of what I would recommend. First, look into some refinancing options. If you have good credit, you might be able to score a loan that can consolidate the debt for under 4%. But if any of those loans you're talking about are federal, I would keep them as is because federal protections trump, in my view, whatever you're going to get through a private lender. Private lenders are known to be quite ruthless when it comes to collections. And then a HELOC would only make sense if you can secure a rate below 4%, which is not the case right now, but who knows next year? The Fed is on a rate cutting campaign. We think they did drop rates once last month and the expectation is that they may continue to do so in subsequent meetings. I don't know if we're going to get to 4% for borrowing rates, but it's something to keep an eye on. All right, Caro has a question. What are my tips for getting a car loan? How much should I borrow versus put down and how do I get the best rate? All right. Yes, car loans have gotten pretty expensive, Caro. Right now the average new car loan rate, APR for a five year loan, which is pretty typical, 60 months, is about 7.2%. I remember I got a car loan in 20222 and it was like 3% under 3% so it's more than doubled in the last few years. If you do have excellent credit, which is a score that's 76780 or higher, you might be able to get something closer to 5%. For used cars though the average is a lot higher. It's around 12%. So I'm not sure if you're looking at a new car or a used car. The ways to get the best deals on car loans have never really changed. Ever since I've been reporting on this since my 20s, it's always like the same stuff, number one and just like a whole. Just like with getting a mortgage, right, you want to put down as much, as much as possible. The more skin in the game that you have, the more a bank is willing to drop its rate because they're sharing the risk with you. So if you put down 20% or more towards that car, then you could probably get a bank to give you a lower rate. Cars lose roughly 20% of their value in the first year and so this would also help you avoid being underwater. Try to borrow for no more than four years longer terms, make monthly payments smaller, but they do end up costing you more in interest. Then keep your total car expenses under 15% of your take home pay. A lot of people go, how much should I pay for my car? What should I budget? Here it is, 15% of your take home pay should go towards the loan, plus gas, plus insurance, plus maintenance and then shop the loan around, shop and then shop around for a loan. A lot of times we go to the dealership and we've already spent so much time there and then they're like, here's our financing. And we're so exhausted and defeated that we just go with it. And I, I know because I have been in that seat, I've been in that position. So get ahead of that before you get to the dealership. Go around and look for, get pre qualified, get pre approved for different interest rates for different loans or at least just get a screen grab or printout of the different rates that you can show to the dealership as that you can show to the dealership. Like I remember when I was trying to get that loan in 2022, they first quoted me like over 3% and I knew that I had excellent credit and that other banks would have offered me like a credit union might have offered me less than 3%. So I showed them that. I said, look at my credit, my credit's great. And they're like, okay, because here's the thing, they've also invested a lot of time with you at the dealership, just as you have spent a lot of time at the dealership. This is not the point at which they want to lose the deal over 0.5% interest rates. But that's a lot to you. That's a lot of savings for you over the life of this loan potentially. So do ask, always ask for a lower rate. Whatever they present you, it's a negotiation. That first rate they present you say hey, can you do better? Check my credit score. It's good. Look at the other loans that people are offering. Here's a printout of what I found. Go to so many links. There's a list of auto rates that you can click on and if you make it personal to there that you can probably see what personally you might qualify for. That's evidence. You can bring that to the dealership, use it as leverage. So the bottom line is if you can land a rate in the mid fives for a new car or under 8% for a used car, that's pretty strong in today's environment. The millionaire next door, what did he do in that book? He always bought used, he always paid cash. That book was written a long time ago and cars I think were built to last more back then and now, I don't know. I don't think that anything like clothing, cars, homes, everything's being used with cheap materials. So just be careful when you buy a car that it's a quality car, used or pre owned, that would last. If you're going to put down a chunk of cash for it, that it is something that will not be a repair headache. The best way to buy a used car is to go with a pre owned certified so it comes with the manufacturer's warranty. If you get a lemon, you can bring it right back. And last but not least, a question from MB Raz on Instagram. She says, Farnooj, I'm a 43 year old renter with $192,000 in debt. I have $10,000 in my 401k and 4000 in my 5 year old's 529 plan. Do I stop contributing to my 401k, my retirement plan and 529 to pay off the debt faster. So here's my advice. If that $192,000 balance you're talking about is high interest debt, meaning anything with I think above 10%, I would consider very high interest. Then yeah, I would Recommend Pausing your 401k and your 529 contributions temporarily. It pains me to say this, in an ideal world, we want to do it all right? But I'm realistic. I know that, that there are trade offs here, right? It's like pick your poison. Do you want to never get out of credit card debt, but then you have a 401k that's fully funded and five to nine contributions so that your kids can go to college? Or would you like to be completely out of debt and there's still time to rebuild that 401k? There's still time to figure out college. And by the way, I think that five to nine plans are nice to haves and I have two of them for my kids. But if I had credit card debt, if I was behind on retirement, that's priority. College is like the third thing on the list. I would commit to one year of laser focused debt repayment. And the goal during that year is to knock down as much of that balance as possible. Can you do 50%, 60% of that balance? This could mean also cutting spending in addition to pausing your 401k, in addition to pausing those 529s, it could mean reducing your spending by a lot. It may mean looking for a side hustle, earning a little bit of extra on the side and try to automate the payment. So if you were to like kind of look at now over the next 12 months, what it would take on a monthly basis to get to half that debt wiped away. So that's what, a hundred thousand divided by 12, that's 8, $9,000 a month. Could you do that? I don't know. I don't know what you're contributing to your 401k and the 5 to 9. But I have a guess that maybe you'd have to supplement that with other means, with other savings, cost cutting measures. And then after that first year, you'll probably still have some debt left over. But oh my God, what an improvement. And now's a good time to reassess and look at your credit score because I'm sure your credit score has improved over those 12 months of knocking down the debt. Because essentially what's happening is you're reducing your debt to credit ratio, which is a huge chunk of your credit score. Look into consolidating whatever's remaining into possibly a fixed rate personal loan. I'm not sure you can transfer that to a 0% balance transfer card. Maybe there's a hundred thousand left or 80,000 left. That's still too high for a balance transfer card, but maybe some of it. But look at a fixed rate personal loan that might be from an interest rate standpoint, the lowest place to go. And then the idea that it's a loan and not a credit line means that now you're on to like a plan. You have a fixed term and now a clear timeline to pay off the rest of the debt. And at that point you can go back to maybe putting more into your retirement and five to nines. But I would not withdraw from your 401k. Don't take money out to pay off your debt. I know you didn't ask, but I can't help but offer this advice too because as we know, that will come with tax penalties, penalties, penalties, and you'll lose a lot of that valuable compounding. And the key here is to make this temporary and to know it's temporary. You're investing in your debt, but also in your peace of mind so that you can go back to business as usual and continue to invest in your future. And that's our show, everybody. And that's our show, everyone. Thanks so much for showing up for this episode. I came to you late with this topic, but you brought and delivered really good questions. I hope my answers were helpful. You can go to somoneylinks.com to look at all sorts of resources again. Debt relief, high yield savings accounts, car loan rates, helocs, all of it. We'll be back here on Monday. We're gonna be talking about couples and money. A great new book is coming out this month called Money Together. Heather Bonaparte and Douglas Bonaparte, married couple, lawyer, cfp. They talk about some of the really sticky stuff in marriages. I'm talking like what happens when your partner's parents are very controlling with the money that they're giving you to help you buy a house? Or like we want the money, right, but not if it's got strings attached. And what do you do when your partner makes more than you and it's bothering you? And what do you do when you're the caregiver in the house and you don't have a paycheck and now you're resentful? Oh my gosh, we get into it. That's Monday. I hope y' all have a great weekend and I hope it is so money.

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Farnoosh Torabi (38:10)

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