1891: Faith, Privilege, and Power: The Hidden Forces Behind Couples’ Finances

Summary

Podcast Summary

So Money with Farnoosh Torabi

Episode 1891: Faith, Privilege, and Power: The Hidden Forces Behind Couples’ Finances
Date: October 13, 2025
Guests: Heather & Douglas Bonaparte (authors of Money Together)

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Overview

This episode explores the invisible dynamics that shape how couples handle finances, moving beyond typical money management advice to probe deeper issues such as gender norms, caregiving roles, faith, privilege, and generational wealth. Farnoosh Torabi interviews husband-and-wife duo Heather and Douglas Bonaparte, who authored Money Together. The Bonapartes share insights from their interviews with over 60 couples and experts, highlighting why traditional money advice falls short and how couples can meaningfully redefine financial power and partnership.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Deeper Influences on Couples’ Finances

• Surface Conversations vs. Real Issues: Many couples only discuss superficial topics (budgets, expenses) and don’t address emotional or power-driven roots of their financial relationship.

  "We focus on budgets or account balances rather than the deeper emotions and power dynamics underneath." — Farnoosh Torabi [03:58]

• The Bonapartes’ book is organized around five key sections: beginnings, mistakes, contributions, power, and risk.

2. Research Process & Approach

• Open-Ended Interviews: Heather and Douglas interviewed 60+ couples, using open-ended questions like “Are you free to spend?” to uncover underlying feelings, not just behavior or numbers.

  "I want to learn what couples are really bothered by when it comes to money... I want to understand these deeper feelings." — Heather Bonaparte [07:25]

3. Gender Norms, Earning Power, and Caregiving

• Gender’s Impact on Financial Perceptions:
  • When a man loses his job, families tend to maintain their standard of living and shield children from the loss; when a woman loses her job, families cut back and see it as a break for her.

    "The study said when a male loses his job, the family is much more inclined to try and do everything they can do to maintain their lifestyle... Whereas when a woman loses her job, they say we have to cut back on some things." — Heather Bonaparte [12:10]

  • Traditional gender roles are deeply embedded but are slowly shifting; more women want a seat at the financial table, though the path is still unclear.
• Breadwinning & Resentment:
  • Heather shares how becoming a mother and making less than Doug led to identity loss and resentment, common among women who bear the bulk of caregiving and mental load.

    "I started to experience a feeling that I'd never felt before... I've never resented my husband... Resentment—that is a scary feeling to bring into your relationship." — Heather Bonaparte [18:33]

  • Doug acknowledges the imbalance and stresses that contribution to the household is not just about income:

    "The only reason you make four or five times more is likely because of what the other person is letting you do... Earning power doesn't come without the other person providing some sacrifice or some level of work." — Douglas Bonaparte [21:42]

4. The Role of Faith in Financial Decisions

• Faith as a Double-Edged Sword:
  • Faith often guides financial decisions, especially around giving and generosity, but can lead to financial imprudence.

    "Sometimes when your faith throws you a life raft, you still have to swim to it... Your values can guide the decisions you make, but you still have a personal responsibility to your family to be prudent." — Heather Bonaparte [29:06]

  • Couples may share religious values but interpret financial application very differently, leading to friction.

    "You could feel the exact same way... and you still might not be aligned on the way that you put them into practice." — Heather Bonaparte [30:17]

5. Privilege, Family Wealth, and Inheritance

• Money as Love and Control:
  • How money is given or withheld in families often serves as signals of affection or disappointment.

    "I didn't know why I never received birthday cards, but I was supposed to always thank you for tax strategies I would someday benefit from... When family gives you money, that's how they show love. And when they withhold money, that's how they show disappointment." — Heather Bonaparte [33:04]

• Unequal Upbringings; No ‘Race to the Bottom’:
  • Heather advises couples not to compete over who had it worse or whose privilege is lesser; both partners’ backgrounds shape current money beliefs.

    "You can't be in a race to the bottom with your spouse who had it worse... That is discounting a huge piece of my identity with money today." — Heather Bonaparte [34:17]

• To Accept Family Money or Not?
  • Couples should actively discuss whether and how to incorporate family wealth, and what strings are attached—control, expectations, or obligations.

    "When you say no to [family money]... those people live happier lives than those who have been perpetually under the thumb of their parents." — Douglas Bonaparte [37:55]

• Inheritance is Emotional, Not Just Financial:
  • Most inheritances are modest, but they are heavy with psychological meaning, grief, and identity.

    "Even those [small] sums of money are infused with so much emotion... I sat at the table and I cried and I'm like, Pop up would love this table." — Heather Bonaparte [39:33]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Communication in Money Conversations:

  "Most people, that's a complete turnoff. That's what we got to do right here at the beginning, as opposed to talk about a goal that you both want... Then say, now we got to look at the numbers to make this family vacation happen." — Douglas Bonaparte [13:10]

• On Collective Ambition:

  "Everybody should get a turn. There's a time for me and there's a time for you. And when your partner comes to you and says, hey, it's been a time for you for a really long time now I think it's my turn." — Heather Bonaparte [20:24]

• On Inheritance:

  "People are assigning an entire life of someone or some people to a sum of money. That... is the biggest round peg I can say that I've ever seen." — Douglas Bonaparte [39:42]

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Key Timestamps

• 03:58 – Introduction to deeper money questions beyond budgets; book aims.
• 06:51 – How Heather led the writing process and designed the research approach.
• 11:45 – Gender’s impact; differences in family response to job loss.
• 15:38 – Heather’s personal story about income, identity, and motherhood.
• 18:33 – The emotional toll of caregiving and “checking out” of finances.
• 20:24 – Concept of collective ambition and fairness in relationships.
• 27:55 – Faith as a hot potato in financial choices.
• 33:04 – Privilege, family money as love/control, and unearthing stories behind the facts.
• 35:21 – The question of whether to accept family money, and attached strings.
• 39:33 – Emotional reactions to inheritance and making meaning of money.

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Tone & Style

• Honest, direct, and empathetic storytelling.
• Blends expert analysis (Douglas) with deeply personal narratives (Heather).
• Serious, practical, but often conversational and laced with humor.

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Bottom Line: Why Listen to This Episode?

This candid conversation reorients how we think about “money issues” in couples: it’s rarely about the dollars and cents and almost always about the stories, roles, and expectations underneath. Money Together—and this podcast—offer frameworks for deeper, more compassionate partnership talks, helping listeners discover their own path to equity, ambition, and emotional clarity in financial life.

Transcript

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[Heather Bonaparte]

Gender definitely plays a role. There was one interesting study that I came across that ended up becoming a part of a chapter about losing your job. The study said when a male loses his job, the family is much more inclined to try and do everything they can do to maintain their lifestyle.

[Douglas Bonaparte]

Wow.

[Heather Bonaparte]

Not have to make any changes or give anything up during that period of unemployment. Whereas when a woman loses her job, they say we have to cut back on some things. Maybe it's a good time for you to take a little break. Maybe there's really no rush for you to look for another job and that you could see that and talk about the embedded gender norm in that, right? Don't my ego. A man would not allow for anyone else to see that we've had to make any changes in our lives, let alone sometimes the couple we interviewed for that chapter in depth. They didn't let their children know that he had lost his job because he was working from home. And look, there's lots of different reasons for that and you don't want to worry your children and things like that. But even he was willing to admit, I didn't want my kids to see dad the provider.

[Farnoosh Torabi Host]

Yeah.

[Douglas Bonaparte]

Be vulnerable. Be weak.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Welcome to Sew Money, everybody.

[Farnoosh Torabi Host]

I'm Farnoosh Tarabi.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

You know, money touches every part of a relationship, from who pays the bills to who feels free to spend to how things like faith and privilege and even family expectations shape the way that we see our financial roles. But for many couples, these conversations, they don't go deep. They stay on the surface. We focus on budgets or account balances rather than the deeper emotions and power dynamics underneath. My guest today, Heather and Douglas Bonaparte, set out to change that. They're the husband and wife duo behind the new book Money Together, a guide that goes beyond financial planning to learn the real forces that drive how couples handle money. Things like caregiving, identity, gender, faith, and generational wealth. Heather is a corporate attorney turned author and financial advocate. Douglas is a certified financial planner and founder of Bonafide Wealth. Together, they spent years interviewing more than 60 couples and experts to unpack what really happens behind closed doors when money Meets love. And what we'll learn today is what they discovered. Why traditional money advice often fails couples. How gender roles and caregiving reshapes financial power. How to talk about privilege or family wealth without resentment. And why sometimes the healthiest financial decision is saying no to money that comes with strings attached. Let's get into it.

[Farnoosh Torabi Host]

Heather and Douglas Bonaparte, welcome to Sew Money. The duo is in the house. Authors.

[Heather Bonaparte]

We're so happy to be here.

[Farnoosh Torabi Host]

I'm so happy you're here. I'm so happy you wrote your book Money Together. What a great book for families, really. Couples, I think is your. Was your. That was your avatar. But I, as I was going through it, I was like, these are issues that I think I want. Couples, but also, like their parents and their children. A book that you want to just keep on the coffee table during Thanksgiving.

[Heather Bonaparte]

Because what you do is just.

[Farnoosh Torabi Host]

There you go. Like, send centerpieces on the Thanksgiving.

[Douglas Bonaparte]

Grandma, get in here.

[Farnoosh Torabi Host]

Grandma. Because why I say that is because you tackle these. These moments in a couple's life, the journey. Right. There's just so many moments that are intertwined with our finances that we don't often read in a couple's money playbook. A couple's money playbook. Honestly, I was expecting to open the book and be like, yep, this is how you talk about money. This is how you do the bank accounts. But you get into it. You talk about things like faith and.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Finances, privilege and adhd, inheriting money, generational.

[Farnoosh Torabi Host]

Wealth, and sometimes the strings attached to that. Like, you guys really go there. How did you figure out how to organize this book, Money Together, and which, by the way, Heather, you wrote. Right. But Doug was in the back, like, in the kitchen.

[Heather Bonaparte]

We are comfortable with saying that he sprinkled his financial expertise throughout the book, but this was a project that I. I wanted us to take on and that I was going to spearhead, and I mostly did.

[Douglas Bonaparte]

Real quick, let me compliment you real quick here. Let's be very clear on something. Heather is a talented writer. There was no shot and no reason you would want my written words, whether they're good, bad, or otherwise, on the pages of this book, when you certainly have and readers will see this. I just want to pay you that compliment because. And that was part of this.

[Heather Bonaparte]

I appreciate that. No, I think it's interesting. I approached this project with an open mind. I said, I want to learn what couples are really bothered by when it comes to money. Like, I want to go underneath the proximate issue that you hear your girlfriends complain about or that even like you might bicker about when you're getting ready for dinner with the kids and everything. And I want to understand these deeper feelings and these deeper emotions and. And I'm going to start by just talking to as many couples as I can. So we sat down with more than 60 couples formally and spent several hours with some of them and just really talked about all of it. Not even so much the numbers, but really got into some deep dives as to how people feel. And I allowed myself to be guided by what we were learning. And then after we got to a certain point with that, I. We started speaking to best in class experts, financial therapists, financial advisors, policy advocates, and folks like that. So we like the structure came over time. I didn't want to go in with too set of an idea. I said, I want to be a student of this idea of understanding the way that couples approach money better.

[Douglas Bonaparte]

Absolutely. Those initial interviews took hours and hours per person, sometimes over the course of multiple days. And that needed to happen in order to figure out where people were squirming in their chairs, what the hot buttons were. So that as we got further through those interview processes, we knew where to drill down, I think by the end of it. But there's no way that could have happened up front. And it allowed us to see those five sections taking place to ultimately form the organization around the book. It's really cool.

[Farnoosh Torabi Host]

Yeah, it was really well done. You start the book with a question which is how can you marry the expectations you've set for your own life.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

With the person you love?

[Farnoosh Torabi Host]

And you follow up by saying, no. Actions are harder to harmonize than how two people approach money. So these folks that you sat down with and you interviewed, money was the hardest thing in their relationships, by and large.

[Heather Bonaparte]

I don't really know if we could say that money was the hardest thing in their relationship. I think we. You deduce as much from what people weren't saying.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Yeah.

[Heather Bonaparte]

Than from what they were. So when we were. What we were observing too was like, which partner is one partner doing all the talking? Is the other partner, like Doug said, squirming in their seat? We talked about things like caregiving and contribution. It wasn't just limited to this idea of let's talk about spending. And the questions that we asked weren't like, are you comfortable with the way you spend every month? The question I asked was, are you free to spend? And it's a different question.

[Douglas Bonaparte]

Pretty open ended for me.

[Heather Bonaparte]

I was incredibly interested to hear the answer to a question like that, Especially from a partner who didn't have much to say in the early part of the interview. We really were hoping to really start to understand a little more behind the hood. Like, of what necessarily? Like what Doug may not have gotten from, let's say, like a client sitting across the table from him earlier in his career.

[Douglas Bonaparte]

Yeah. Or would have taken a lot of time and a lot of meetings to get to after you do a formal planning process. The ones and zeros. No one's going to open up to you that way. Interestingly enough, when you talk to them about being in a book, all kinds of answers and things flow out. And Heather's actually, whether it's just her.

[Farnoosh Torabi Host]

She's the attorney. She knows how to get what she needs from the guy on the bench.

[Douglas Bonaparte]

No question.

[Heather Bonaparte]

I'm pretty good at a deposition, so I think that I used a little bit of that skill set here. Yeah.

[Farnoosh Torabi Host]

So I want to offer readers a little bts behind the scenes of what they're going to get and all the various sections of the book. You do organize this with the beginnings, the mistakes, the contributions, power and risk.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

But I'm curious.

[Farnoosh Torabi Host]

What did you learn about how we look at money, whether we're men or women? Like, what were some of the gender associations and gender narratives that you discovered that surprised you? Maybe even as you were talking to couples, and I assume you've talked to couples who were hetero, same sex. But still, I think gender, however you identify, plays a role in your relationship with money.

[Heather Bonaparte]

Sometimes gender definitely plays a role. There was one interesting study that. That I came across that ended up becoming a part of a chapter about losing your job for a period of time. And I wish I had the details right at my fingertips. But what I could tell you is that the study said when a male loses his job, the family is much more inclined to try and do everything they can do to maintain their lifestyle.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Wow.

[Heather Bonaparte]

Not have to make any changes or give anything up during that period of unemployment. Whereas when a woman loses her job, they say we have to cut back on some things. Maybe it's a good time for you to take a little break. Maybe there's really no rush for you to look for another job and that you could see that and talk about the embedded gender norm in that. Right. Don't my ego as a man not allow for anyone else to see that we've had to make any changes in our lives, let alone sometimes the couple we interviewed for that chapter in depth? They didn't let their children know that he had Lost his job because he was working from home. And look, there's lots of different reasons for that, and you don't want to worry your children and things like that. But even he was willing to admit, I didn't want my kids to see dad the provider.

[Farnoosh Torabi Host]

Yeah.

[Douglas Bonaparte]

Be vulnerable. Be weak.

[Heather Bonaparte]

Be vulnerable. Or not be able to do what he considered and what many gendered. What many folks caught in a gendered idea consider being the provider for the family.

[Farnoosh Torabi Host]

Yeah.

[Douglas Bonaparte]

To take it in a different angle and maybe even a more positive one here. As much as those gendered scripts are true, and they are very true, we have been inundated with this for decades in mainstream media, the shows we watch, all kinds of media, and even more so in social media. One takeaway that I saw was there actually being more and more of a willingness for both partners, in this case, females wanting to be a part of the conversation. The issue was no one had the best methods of getting that attention and bringing that conversation to the table in a way that worked for everybody. And a classic version of that is if I sat down at the table with a spreadsheet and numbers and all this stuff in front of me. For most people, that's a complete turnoff. That's what we got to do right here at the beginning, as opposed to talk about a goal that you both want for each as that backdoor into then saying, now we got to look at the numbers to make this family vacation happen. Or perhaps you start with talking about what you did, and the people go into conversations around money, thinking we're going to first focus on what we did wrong or where we need to improve and being critical about what's happening. That's nine out of 10 times where people think it's going. What if you flip that on its head and said, let's go talk. Let's have a toast to what we did this month, this week, and then get to the things that you can improve upon. And it was basically fundamental communication I saw was people are. Couples are interested in this. It's just the things that they bring into it really prevent them from taking those first steps.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Yeah.

[Farnoosh Torabi Host]

Noted. This really brings us to the beginnings part of your book, where you get into a lot of the communication stuff and the backstory stuff and how everybody comes with a story. And you may want the same things, but how you communicate around it could be very different and very challenging. A personal story. I read about the two of you in that section was, I believe, Heather, you were going through a crisis of identity as you were Becoming a mom for the first time, and Doug was making multiples of your income and it was like you had feelings about this. How did you communicate this ultimately as a couple? And what's the takeaway for others who feel disconnected around earning and contribution? Because I think for me, this felt very personal. I want to be that contributor. Right. I want to make the money as well.

[Heather Bonaparte]

I think that it is very easy to get caught in that age old trope of the only way you can contribute is by contributing money.

[Farnoosh Torabi Host]

Right.

[Heather Bonaparte]

Earning. And I was unable because no one had really modeled to me that a caregiver is also a provider in a way that is equally as important. Right. To really embody it. And I will say that from my end, like, when I first became a mom, man, becoming a mom in corporate law, it's not easy. It's not easy.

[Farnoosh Torabi Host]

I saw Sex in the City.

[Heather Bonaparte]

I know it out, you know? And when you pair the way that you're feeling in the workplace, which honestly still came as a shock, I think, oh, my God, I could go on a whole rant about this, about how I feel. Like my whole life I was taught, like, Beyonce, like, who run the world, girls and I. And that it's true, like, more women are graduating with higher education degrees. Like, more of us are entering the workforce. But what is happening between the time that we're entering the workforce and who gets promoted and who gets put in that corner office? Why are our numbers down in 20, 30%? It just so happens at the time when that's happening, happens to be around when most of us are having a child, multiple children. And we cannot discount the fact that institutional failures to support families and young mothers and caregivers, I think a lot of times we internalize those failures as failures of our own.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Right.

[Heather Bonaparte]

So, like I will say, it's not that he wasn't like a willing participant and a super involved father from day one. Like, he. He was better than most, I must say. But, like, I was telling myself a lot of stories about what I deserved.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Yeah.

[Heather Bonaparte]

At the time that I became a mother. And it just so happened, like, I was reaching this plateau at work in my career, as I refer to the Bermuda Triangle of my own career, the five years that I had small children, which also happened to be right around when the next unprecedented time happened, when Covid started. And at the same time, suddenly Doug's career, his firm's taking off and he's making three times the amount of money that I was when I was once the breadwinner in our relationship. So you start to tell yourself these stories about whose time is worth more. Like, where am I going to add value here? And I think that, like, those messages were really damaging to the. To the balance of time and power and ultimately what led to me checking out of our family finances, which I think, yeah, things that led to us writing this book and something that really resonated. And I'm sorry I've been going on for so long. Like, I knew we were going to open up a can of worms. But something that really came across in our interviews was when I said, I think a lot of women in particular really feel like because they are holding such a huge amount of the mental and physical and emotional load of the family, sometimes the personal finances feel like the only one thing they're not responsible for and they don't check out for any other reason than that.

[Farnoosh Torabi Host]

Yes, one more thing. Really one more thing I have to also care about.

[Heather Bonaparte]

And I will say that I get that. Yeah, you can put me in that category for a while there because I was at peak Covid. I was working a full time job as a corporate lawyer. I was taking care of both of our children all day, all night, when everyone was home. And I was always, like, moonlighting as Doug's business consultant for the firm since we founded the firm. And I think we got to a point where I started to experience a feeling that I'd never felt before. I've been angry, I've been overloaded, like, I've been overwhelmed. I've never resented my husband and I've known him since I was 18 years old. And so resentment. That is a scary feeling to bring into your relationship.

[Douglas Bonaparte]

Yeah, super damaging.

[Heather Bonaparte]

That was the catalyst. That and the fact that I will also mention that my job at the time had said, hey, surprise, we want you back four days a week in the office, more than I was going into. So I think that the external nudge and the internal breaking point collided in me saying to him, something we're doing is no longer working for me and we've got to make a change here because I'm not going to continue on.

[Farnoosh Torabi Host]

And what was the next thing you did after that?

[Heather Bonaparte]

I joined Bonafide Wealth.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Ooh.

[Farnoosh Torabi Host]

Okay.

[Douglas Bonaparte]

I have to give Heather a ton of credit because I'm sure I could have kept doing what I was doing, watching and experiencing growth and having truly a good time building this business. And if Heather had not sat down with me to say, something has to change here. And of course I was like, if this is how you feel, and this is what's taking place here. We have to address this, and we have to figure out what the pathway forward looks like. And we put all options on the table.

[Heather Bonaparte]

And this goes into this idea about collective ambition.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Right.

[Heather Bonaparte]

Which is a really important concept, I think, in the book, when we talk about power and from our standpoint, everybody should get a turn. There's a time for me and there's a time for you. And when your partner comes to you and says, hey, it's been a time for you for a really long time now I think it's my turn.

[Douglas Bonaparte]

You got to pay attention to these things because the goal here is to find fairness in your relationship. It's one of the key parts of this book. And fair is not necessarily equal. Be that as it may, things have tilted so far one way or the other. So we put all options on the table here and really took stock of what do we want to do together. How can we get Heather those wins that she's looking for professionally? I was provided that opportunity from the stability that she gave me to do what it is I was able to. I was in a good spot. How do we get her in that good spot? Because I'm not going to feel like we're winning unless she's actually winning, too. And that's how I think a lot of couples need to think about that. What we see a lot of couples do when they get in trouble with this area is start to not be collective with their wins. They start to think that as long as I'm making more money and we can do all of these cool things, it doesn't matter what's going on over there. And that, once again, shows you how you're tying contribution to financial earning power. And I say this every time we have a conversation around this book, particularly around contribution, is that I would not have been able to do what I've been able to do without the sacrifices and things that she has done for. So anyone who's I make four times more, I make five times, times more. The only reason you make four or five times more is likely because of what the other person is letting you do. Once you figure that part out, you realize how absolutely silly and nonsensical it is to simply tie contribution to earning power. That earning power doesn't come without the other person either providing some sacrifice or some level of work. Often more work, more taxing emotional, mental, and often physical work.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

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[Farnoosh Torabi Host]

There's that famous study now that finds that married men are happier than married women and more successful because typically the woman takes a backseat professionally and financially. And it's not happening in a vacuum, guys. You're successful because someone's at home doing your laundry and making sure you get all your vitamins and what, I don't.

[Heather Bonaparte]

Know what else keeping you man kept. I heard that term for the first time recently. I'm like, oh my God, a kept man.

[Farnoosh Torabi Host]

Wow.

[Douglas Bonaparte]

I won't lie. Sounds awesome. But not when being man kept results in resentment and actual fractures in your relationship that need not to be there.

[Farnoosh Torabi Host]

I'm gonna say amen. Which transitions us nicely into faith and finances, another dedicated portion of your book where you write as a couple, sharing the same philosophical principles can be a guide. But you might still struggle over how your principles play out in the financial choices you need to make here on this earth. Tell us why this came up probably a lot in your conversations, I'm guessing, which is why it showed up in your book.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

And it's True.

[Farnoosh Torabi Host]

I don't know why it's taken us so long to say this out loud, that your faith can be problematic sometimes if you take it word for word into your financial life. Because I have been across the table from someone, a woman who was, like, in debt and in credit card debt, and she's her first thing every month when she gets paid is she gives to her church. And I'm like, I think we need to balance this.

[Douglas Bonaparte]

Right?

[Heather Bonaparte]

You hit the nail on the head. This is such a hot potato. That's the best way I can put it. I think the reason people don't talk about it is because it is taboo. It is super sensitive. It is difficult to talk about. But the way that it arose in the interviews, like, fascinated me enough that I spoke. We went out and we sought more couples to speak with about it, because sometimes it would come up, like you just said, it would come up in the context of someone who is in a financially dire situation, and they would say something like, but I have faith we'll get through it.

[Farnoosh Torabi Host]

Yeah.

[Heather Bonaparte]

And. Okay. And you still need to swim.

[Douglas Bonaparte]

Yeah. You have to save yourself sometimes.

[Heather Bonaparte]

You have to. Sometimes when your faith throws you a life raft, you still have to swim to it. And that's why we gave the example we did. Right. Like, your values can guide the decisions you make. Big picture when we're painting with broad strokes. But you still have a personal responsibility to the people in your life, to your family, to your children, to find a way to still be prudent, responsible. Look, in various religions, they have you sit down and have these conversations before you get married.

[Douglas Bonaparte]

As a matter of fact, when you're doing your research for a book and you're putting a book proposal together, they want to know what are competing titles or other books in this book.

[Heather Bonaparte]

Oh, yeah, this is interesting.

[Douglas Bonaparte]

And there really are. There aren't a lot of books on love and money, number one, which is kind of, hey, this is great. We're gonna do something that's not really explored. But when we did find those books, they were very much religious books. They were based in faith. And, yeah, at first we were like, that. That's interesting. And then I was like, okay, this makes sense, because the more you stay committed to the holy union, the more you're going to be attending. And therefore, round and round we go with faith and whether it be charity, donations, all that kind of.

[Heather Bonaparte]

But. And I think that's why. That's why it's so interesting, because you could still. You could feel the exact same way, right? Like your values, your values that are guided by your faith could be completely aligned with your partner, and you still might not be aligned on the way that you put them into practice. So we gave giving as an example, which it's interesting, right, that you just brought that up as well. What does it mean to give generously? What does it mean to give philanthropically? And how far should you put yourself out to do that?

[Douglas Bonaparte]

The last thing I'd say about faith is just how hard coded and attached to people's values. This is something that's been going on, likely in your life for the devout since birth, all the way through. And to really.

[Heather Bonaparte]

Which is why we put it in that section, because it can feel like an affront to your values when somebody says, I don't love, I think we're doing too much. Or I don't agree with the way you've done this. And they're like, I do this because.

[Douglas Bonaparte]

My faith tells me, yeah, it's a real about face. And it's very uncomfortable for a lot of people that are devout to challenge the way that they've been conditioned to handle, particularly money, in the context of their religion. And that's why, again, it is the hot potato chat. Heather did a really good job on that one.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Absolutely.

[Farnoosh Torabi Host]

Just calling it out is progress. Is progress.

[Heather Bonaparte]

Absolutely.

[Farnoosh Torabi Host]

And for every. It's for every couple to figure out. But I think you're giving people that permission by calling this out and saying, this is not healthy. Sometimes, this overemphasis of your faith in your financial life, when it's to your detriment. Right. Something's not working.

[Douglas Bonaparte]

By the way people get together with different faiths.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Yes.

[Douglas Bonaparte]

You're gonna have to reconcile that one.

[Farnoosh Torabi Host]

There's a lot.

[Douglas Bonaparte]

Understand your own identity and your own faith, but then you got your partner's faith to contend with.

[Heather Bonaparte]

And I think it's just the ultimate illustration, especially in that first section about beginnings, about examining why you feel the way you feel about certain things, and when there is room for change and improvement, to be open to it, and that it's not an affront to your religious values. And princip to re examine as an adult and as a couple, the way you want to put that into practice. It's just like the ultimate example of that.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Yeah.

[Farnoosh Torabi Host]

I want to talk also about your section on privilege, marrying into money, but also maybe growing up in a culture that had different value systems around money, what it represented. I highlighted this line, Heather, because it made me laugh, because I feel like this. I think I probably experienced this in my family, too. You said, I didn't know why I never received birthday cards, but I was supposed to always thank you for tax strategies I would someday benefit from. And this idea that, like, money, when family give you. Gives you money, that's how they show love. And when they withhold money, that's how they show disappointment. It's just so messed up. I went through that. And I want you to now talk about how couples can be more collaborative around these differences. Right? These are fundamental, deep rooted psychological differences, as now we're talking about our relationship to money. How do you unearth these things in a way that feels like. Not like you have to hire a therapist to manage the meeting.

[Heather Bonaparte]

You may have to hire a therapist.

[Farnoosh Torabi Host]

You might have to. Okay, fine.

[Heather Bonaparte]

But I think when we talk about family wealth and privilege, that's why these conversations about your beginnings in the early years of your life are so important to have, because you don't just need to know the facts, you need to know the stories. And when I look back, like, however you felt right, and we're trying to create some level playing field between you and your partner, even though you may have grown up completely differently. So this was an important concept for me. Like, I definitely grew up with some privilege, just. And at the same time, I struggled. I had some difficulty in my family system, and I think it's really important to understand that. However I felt like my story is my story and you can't be in. First of all, you can't be in a race to the bottom with your spouse who had it worse. You can't be like, but you still had a check for college. So you know what, Heather, we're gonna. We're gonna ignore the fact that you were treated XYZ way for this many years, because that is discounting a huge piece of my identity with money today. By not acknowledging that, yeah, you can't.

[Douglas Bonaparte]

Really explore how your partner feels and reconcile those things to come together unless you allow that person to express their own feelings.

[Heather Bonaparte]

But when it comes to family wealth, I think the bigger question is, are you going to take it? That's because when you. I believe. I believe it should be a choice in a discussion between two folks getting together when one of them has received perpetual financial support from their family and maybe has a disparately larger amount of wealth than the other person, there needs to be a discussion as to the lifestyle they plan to live and whether they want to incorporate the family wealth as part of their lives. You see this all the time in.

[Douglas Bonaparte]

Your practice the question is what strings are attached here? Very rarely do I see someone say look, this money's mine. My parents have told me to my face go off. This is for you.

[Heather Bonaparte]

It's possible.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Yeah.

[Douglas Bonaparte]

No, I'm saying I rarely see that. That's certainly possible. But oftentimes it's a control mechanism. You see it play out when grandkids start getting involved and everyone's going on family vacations. There are expectations now that those parents have of their children or grandparents of their grandchildren when this type of privilege is out there.

[Heather Bonaparte]

And I think have to ask yourself when you are marrying into the family.

[Douglas Bonaparte]

Yeah. Is this what you guys want?

[Heather Bonaparte]

Is this what you want? Or are you looking to build a more independent family of your own?

[Douglas Bonaparte]

Own.

[Heather Bonaparte]

I think it's really.

[Farnoosh Torabi Host]

Well, this goes back to what I was saying earlier. It's. I think your book also maybe grandma Grandpa should like because now you're inviting them into that. You can't have these conversations to some extent at some point. Like you have to confront. I don't know if that's the right word. You have to engage your in laws or your. Your parents. If you do decide we're not taking the money or we'd like to take the money, but here's how we'd like it to play out. Like how do you have that conversation?

[Douglas Bonaparte]

I think people are inherently afraid to have that put taboo of money conversations behind. There's an inherent risk that you have or a concern that if you do even bring up the topic. Right.

[Farnoosh Torabi Host]

Yeah.

[Douglas Bonaparte]

By the way, how dare you sit down.

[Farnoosh Torabi Host]

Of course, yes.

[Douglas Bonaparte]

To talk about your life and your happiness. How dare you bring that up. But in all seriousness, think about that for one quick second. If you have in laws or parents or a generation above you that is going to take the track of being offended that you would talk about your life. I think that says much more about them than it says about you. Please put that fear aside and realize you're talking about your life with your partner and your happiness. That is something that is very difficult to do and it's made even more difficult when those strings are a lot of blocks, bucks coming your way or this notion of financial security that you're receiving at the benefit of parents or in laws and more times I see. And you see this play out is that when you say no to that and it might come at the consequence of not receiving those gifts or the down payment on the house or an inheritance, those people live happier lives than those who have been perpetually under the thumb.

[Farnoosh Torabi Host]

Yeah.

[Douglas Bonaparte]

Of Their parents talk about what kind of memories are you going to have? We finally got the money, hun, after 20 years of listening to them talk about whatever. That's awful.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Yeah.

[Douglas Bonaparte]

Wouldn't you rather say, you know what, we did it our way and we may or may not have received something, but we're good, we're happy, we have what we have, we did that. And that I think is far greater than just feeling like you need to be controlled by someone because of money.

[Farnoosh Torabi Host]

And you can be controlled even when they're no longer on earth.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

On the earth. Right.

[Farnoosh Torabi Host]

Because we have these assumptions and these feelings that even if you didn't have those conversations with them about their expectations, you assumed things.

[Heather Bonaparte]

And you know what's interesting? Inheritances. There was another statistic I wish I had at the top of my fingertips, but most inheritances are five figures or less.

[Farnoosh Torabi Host]

Yes, I read that in your book. Yes.

[Heather Bonaparte]

Yeah.

[Douglas Bonaparte]

So these are not life changing amounts of money.

[Heather Bonaparte]

These are not life altering forever sums. And yet even those sums of money are infused with so much emotion. To your point, like even after life, like we are still asking ourselves like, what is it? I am, what am I supposed to be doing with this? How can I, how can I continue the legacy of the person that chose to give this to me? It's a really heavy. I'll speak to my own experience.

[Douglas Bonaparte]

Go for it.

[Heather Bonaparte]

I received a small inheritance from my mother's parents when they passed away. And I was so emotionally like it was emotional to think about what I would do even with just enough money to refurnish our backyard. Like to buy some backyard patio furniture.

[Douglas Bonaparte]

Yeah.

[Heather Bonaparte]

That I sat at the table and I cried and I'm pop up would love this table.

[Farnoosh Torabi Host]

Yeah.

[Heather Bonaparte]

People really feel this way.

[Farnoosh Torabi Host]

Yeah.

[Douglas Bonaparte]

People are assigning an entire life of someone or some people to a sum of money. That, that, that is the biggest round peg I can say that I've ever seen.

[Farnoosh Torabi Host]

That's very special though. I feel like you were grieving. That's maybe the lesson is that like you do give yourself some distance. Right. Like it's too soon to spend the money. And I get that. Like whether you inherited it from your grandparents or you won a lottery, like just people, like what do I do? Don't do anything actually because you're too emotional. You're too many thoughts.

[Heather Bonaparte]

I think it's just another illustration that money isn't just money.

[Farnoosh Torabi Host]

Yeah.

[Douglas Bonaparte]

And we have a whole chapter on inheritance. It's the words you cannot hear. And you'll read an amazing story about a couple that ultimately found their way to dealing and leveling it out and figuring out how to make that inheritance worth something for their own lives.

[Farnoosh Torabi Host]

Yeah, you're right. It's a journey when people inherit money.

[Douglas Bonaparte]

Sure.

[Farnoosh Torabi Host]

Heather and Douglas Bonaparte, thank you so much. I'm so excited for your book. And. And please come back. This isn't. We didn't even scratch the surface, potentially, because I want people to pick up your book, but really appreciate you coming on. And. And congrats. Congrats to both of you.

[Heather Bonaparte]

Thanks so much for having us.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Thanks so much to Heather and Douglas Bonaparte. Their book is called Money Together. Thanks for tuning in. If you enjoy what you're hearing, please leave a review. Subscribe and share the podcast with your friends.

[Farnoosh Torabi Host]

I'll see you back here on Wednesday.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

And I hope your day is so money.

[Heather Bonaparte]

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[Douglas Bonaparte]

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[Heather Bonaparte]

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[Heather Bonaparte]

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[Douglas Bonaparte]

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