← So Money with Farnoosh Torabi
So Money with Farnoosh Torabi
1894: Emotional Wealth: The Feminist Guide to Dating and Desire
00:35:13
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- [00:00]
Farnoosh Torabi
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- [00:35]
Jeff Bridges
Morning, Zoe. Got donuts.
- [00:37]
Dana
Jeff Bridges why are you still living above our garage?
- [00:40]
Jeff Bridges
Well, I dig the mattress and I want to be in a T mobile commercial like you. Teach me. So Dana.
- [00:47]
Dana
Oh no, I'm not really prepared. I couldn't possibly at t mobile get the new iPhone 17 Pro on them. It's designed to be the most powerful iPhone yet and has the ultimate pro camera system.
- [00:59]
Jeff Bridges
Wow, impressive. Let me try. T Mobile is the best place to get iPhone 17 Pro because they've got the best network.
- [01:06]
Farnoosh Torabi
Nice.
- [01:07]
Dana
Jeffrey, you heard them.
- [01:08]
Jeff Bridges
T Mobile is the best place to.
- [01:10]
Farnoosh Torabi
Get the new iPhone 17 Pro on.
- [01:12]
Lily Womble
Us with eligible traded in any condition.
- [01:15]
Jeff Bridges
So what are we having for lunch?
- [01:17]
Dana
Dude, my work here is done.
- [01:19]
T-Mobile Announcer
The 24 month bill credit is on experience beyond for well qualified customers plus tax and $35 device connection charge credit ended balance due if you pay off earlier. Canceled finance agreement. IPhone 17 Pro 256GB $1099.99 and new line minimum $100 plus a month plan with auto pay plus taxes and FE mobile network in the US based on analysis by Ooklab speed test intelligence data 1H 2025 visit t mobile.com.
- [01:38]
Farnoosh Torabi
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- [02:08]
So Money Episode 1894 New Feminist Rules for Dating and why Dating Apps are a Scam with Lily Womble, author of thank you. More please.
- [02:19]
You're listening to so Money with award winning money guru Farnoosh Torabi. Each day get a 30 minute dose of financial inspiration from the world's top business minds, authors, influencers and from Farnoosh yourself. Looking for ways to save on Gas or double your double coupons. Sorry, you're in the wrong place. Seeking profound ways to live a richer, happier life. Welcome to so Money.
- [02:46]
Lily Womble
Just historically, if we look at the economics of romantic relationships and what women specifically were forced to do to have some economic stability or mobility. Right. Settling for. For a romantic relationship. Some people found love, and that's great. And some people feel like they never settled in romantic love. Even when women sort of had to get married to have economic mobility, great for them. A lot of women had to settle. And so we have legacies of women in our past that literally had to settle to economically survive.
- [03:21]
Farnoosh Torabi
Welcome to so Money, everybody. I'm Farnoosh Tarabi. You know, when I was first embarking on the dating life in New York as an ambitious career, ambitious, financially ambitious woman, I don't know, it was a little challenging, a little awkward sometimes. And it wasn't just me. I heard this from a lot of my peers. And as I was writing my book when she makes more discovered there's a whole community of women who are struggling to balance their professional and financial desires with some of the age old traditions of dating and what it means to be a woman in a relationship. So we're unpacking a lot of this today with Lily Womble. She's been a guest on the show before. She's a feminist dating coach and the founder of Date Brazen. And now fast forward, she's got a new book coming out tomorrow. Tomorrow called thank you. More, please. It's a feminist guide to breaking dumb dating rules and finding love. You're gonna love this episode. Lily walks us through feminist dating, what it means, her thoughts on dating apps and why she thinks they're kind of a scam, and why being more picky is the answer to your love life. Here's Lily Womble. Lily Womble, welcome back to so Money. I'm so happy. We, we promised it. We said we'll have you back when your book is out. And now. Thank you. More, please. Is out. A feminist guide to breaking dumb dating rules and finding love. Congratulations.
- [04:44]
Lily Womble
Thank you. I am so thrilled to be at this part of the process. And last time we talked, we were talking about, you know, a lot of the dating tools that I write about in my book, but I'm so glad not to be writing it anymore. Farnoosh, you get it.
- [04:58]
Farnoosh Torabi
I get it. It's the. For me, that is the hardest. But I will say too, that the marketing as well is a whole other side of your brain and it's just a different level of like failure and rejection.
- [05:11]
Lily Womble
Oh, yeah, yeah.
- [05:13]
Farnoosh Torabi
You know, it's, it's all hard, everybody, but it's hopefully worth it. It's hopefully worth it. I think definitely your book very needed right now. And I, what I want to help listeners with is I know many people in our audience are women. We're financially ambitious, we're go getters and that cannot always be. That's a difficult thing to bring with you onto the dating scene.
- [05:37]
Lily Womble
Say more on why do you think? Like, let's, let's fill in the gaps of like, what is the audience thinking? Let's, let's gossip. Let's like eavesdrop on their conversation.
- [05:47]
Farnoosh Torabi
I'm going to tease it. So we're going to talk about that in a couple of minutes. Okay, hold on, hold on to that thought. But first I want to get to learning a little bit more about the conceit of your book and the title too. Thank you. More, please. Yeah, what is that about? What is that?
- [06:04]
Lily Womble
What is that? What is that? Thank you. More, please. So a couple of years ago, yeah, but like, what is it? I totally get it. A couple of years ago I was really struggling and I was struggling with feeling hopeless. It was specifically in my business and running a business for, you know, for anybody who does it, it is high highs and low lows. And sometimes the lows are lower than the highs are high. And I was really trying to ground in gratitude. And gratitude didn't feel like it was moving me forward as, as much as I wanted to be. Like, it was, it made me feel better sometimes. But there was still this fundamental disbelief that I got to have what I wanted because you know, what if it's hopeless? What if my business success isn't going to happen? What if I, what if my dreams of more in going to be possible? So I just sat down, I was like, I'm smart. I'm going to figure this out because I'm going to like, it's got to be gratitude. And I want it to be something else as well because I felt like Oliver Twist with a little bowl, empty bowl in front of me. Like, please sir, I want some more like begging for just scraps, like little like you're wanting more clients, more clients, more stability, more, you know, more proof that my effort. I felt like the best kept secret in my business. I was working, you know, 60 hour week, 70 hour weeks and feeling like I was also not being able to pay my bills right. So that really difficult place in entrepreneurship. But I felt like Oliver Twist. I was like, I Don't want to beg. I want to feel confident. I want to feel grounded. I want to feel hopeful. And so I sort of like this spark came to me. I was like, okay, what if it was thank you gratitude more please. Whenever something good would happen or whenever somebody would say, oh, I want to work with you, or whenever somebody would say, come and, you know, join my program, I would just be like, thank you, more please. And it became sort of this chant in my household. And the magic of thank you, more please was that I was no longer drenched in confirmation bias mode that, like, it's not possible. This is all really hard. It's only going to get harder. Right. When I believed those things and didn't practice thank you, more please. I was just drenched in sort of hopelessness day to day, which I saw my clients struggling with too. And with thank you, more please. I started to feel more genuinely hopeful. My brain started to understand that there was evidence that what I want did exist. And the more I said it, the more my brain got on board with maybe your desire for more is evidence that it exists also. So I started giving my clients this tool. I work with amazing high achieving women from around the world who identify as feminists, who are really ambitious, who are creating amazing things, but their dating life feels like a barren wasteland. And I shared thank you, more please with them, this tool, and they started to feel so much more hopeful on a daily basis. They started taking so much more courageous action on a daily basis and it led to the best dates of their life with these tools that I also teach in addition to thank you, more please. But I shared thank you, more please at a TikTok video. It went viral. Then my publisher called me and was like, do you want to rename the book thank you More please? What was the original name? It was Get Messy, Find Love, which everybody in my life hated. Furnish.
- [09:16]
Farnoosh Torabi
Oh.
- [09:17]
Lily Womble
And they, they were like, I don't know. And I was like, you're wrong. No, it's a great title. You're wrong. But then when thank you, more please came around, it was just this like, everyone, including myself, was like, that's it. You know, it's about acknowledging that what you want does actually exist and going after it courageously and messily.
- [09:35]
Farnoosh Torabi
Yes, I like that you kept the mess in there though too, because that's important. One of your principles. The subtitle of your book is A Feminist Guide. And maybe then we'll get into dating when you are financially ambitious and a woman. Yes, Feminist Guide to Breaking Dumb Dating. Rules and finding love. And so what is the sort of patriarchal dating that we're so accustomed to that we don't even know it?
- [10:01]
Lily Womble
So if we think about just for example, this year is the 50th anniversary of when a woman could get a credit card without her husband's permission. What a celebration.
- [10:12]
Farnoosh Torabi
That's a good tick tock or something.
- [10:13]
Lily Womble
Yeah. Yes. Oh, you need to, you need to dive deep. We need your thoughts on this varnish. We need them.
- [10:19]
Farnoosh Torabi
Yeah.
- [10:20]
Lily Womble
So just historically, if we look at the economics of romantic relationships and what women specifically were forced to do to have some economic stability or mobility, right. Settling for. For a romantic relationship. Some people found love, and that's great. And some people feel like they never settled in romantic love. Even when women sort of had to get married to have an economic mobility, great for them, a lot of women had to settle. And so it. We have legacies of women in our past that literally had to settle to economically survive. And so if we. Of the impact of that legacy, just this one piece of that legacy, of course, in 2024, we are still like, of course dating is still stuck in the patriarchal dark ages because it's only been 50 years since women could get a credit card without their husband's permission. So this I, I think that the way we talk about work, the way we talk about negotiation, the way we talk about money in a lot of ways has advanced so much further than how we talk about dating specifically because that legacy of the necessity to settle is still being taught in how women are taught to date. For example, are you sure you're not being too picky? This idea of are you sure you can trust yourself? Are you sure you don't want, like, maybe you need to settle because you're too much and you're asking for too much that is, you know, drenched in patriarchal dating culture, asking women to settle in order to not disrupt a status quo. Another piece of patriarchal dating advice that I see is why don't you just play the numbers game? Maybe you're not trying hard enough in your dating life, going on enough dates that leads to women specifically going on so many dates that they don't want to go on exhausting themselves mentally and physically, which. What does the impact of exot. What is the impact of exhaustion mentally and physically, less higher functioning, so you're not making the highest decisions for yourself, I. E. You begin to settle when you're tired in your dating life. And so really, you know, that's why I broke up with Matchmaking seven years ago because I was seeing for myself that patriarchal dating culture and the idea of, you're too much, you need to shrink in order to belong and find a romantic partnership furnish. My mom told me that at age 12, you're too much, you're gonna have a hard time finding a husband.
- [12:38]
Farnoosh Torabi
I'm sure I was told those things. I mean, I remember. Well, my last book, when she Makes More, was all about this sort of dichotomy of like, on the one hand, our parents. My mother, a child of the flower power civil rights movement. Of course, for her daughter, she wanted her to achieve everything and have it all, but not too much. What they didn't predict was that I would, like, get so far in life as to become financially independent. But then they were like, okay, but now who are you going to marry? Right? You have to marry. Still up.
- [13:16]
Lily Womble
I got that message a lot growing up.
- [13:19]
Farnoosh Torabi
Not if you're, you know, if you're on your jog right now and you're listening to this or walking your dog. I mean, solidarity, right? Like, we've heard that. Gotta marry up.
- [13:28]
Lily Womble
Yes, you've gotta marry up. The pressure, the idea that. What is that signal to your family, to society that you'll be taken care of. Right. This idea that women can't take care of themselves or the idea that to be more valuable, I mean, our culture still treats coupled women as ahead of single women. And I see that in how my clients who are single are treated by their coupled friends. When they decide to invest money in coaching with me, they're judged by their coupled friends and treated as somewhat childish for wanting to spend their money in the way they want to spend their money.
- [14:05]
Farnoosh Torabi
All right, well, let's take a quick diversion and talk about stay at home girlfriends because now we're still talking about dating. Okay, okay, what's your hot take on this? And by the way, everyone, a stay at home girlfriend is this portrayal? I would call it a performance, really. Right. These women who go on TikTok and social media and talk about their blissful days being essentially financially dependent on their boyfriends, they wake up, they have lazy days, they don't go, they don't work. They're totally content being at the financial mercy of their boyfriends. That's my interpretation of it. They call it like true love and being taken care of and the ideal.
- [14:46]
Lily Womble
Why would you want to work so hard and why would you want to hustle and why wouldn't you want a more soft life?
- [14:53]
Farnoosh Torabi
Yeah, Right. So first of all, like, I Don't know how real this is because it's just a lot of loud stay at home girlfriends on TikTok, who, by the way, they're not doing so well, some of them. You know, there's the aftermath now that we're seeing, which is great. I love that we're being honest about.
- [15:09]
Lily Womble
How this, by the way, the only reason that maybe in the back of their mind they think, if this all goes to. Or if this all goes. Can I curse? Is that a thing?
- [15:19]
Farnoosh Torabi
Yeah.
- [15:19]
Lily Womble
Okay, cool.
- [15:19]
Farnoosh Torabi
It's already explicit. Apple.
- [15:21]
Lily Womble
Okay, great.
- [15:23]
Farnoosh Torabi
A few times we say four letter words, but, you know, okay, well, lean into it.
- [15:28]
Lily Womble
Okay, great. I'm fully on board with that. Well, the only reason, if they think, oh, it's what if this all goes to. Well, at least I can go get a credit card and like, I can be okay living off a credit card. The only reason that they might think that they're going to be okay is because of the feminist movement that created the opportunity for women to get a credit card without their husband's permission 50 years ago. So I do think that there's a lack of historical context in their sort of interpretation of their, like, life that, like, this is so much better because you shouldn't be a feminist because, you know, you should want a soft life and I can, you know, I, I want to live a. So the only reason you have the opportunity to feel somewhat okay making this secure, making this choice is because of the feminist movement.
- [16:17]
Farnoosh Torabi
Right. I just think they have no fear. And you know what I know about fear? When you have none of it, you're.
- [16:24]
Lily Womble
Or they're. Or they're content. Farming and rage farming to create opportunities to monetize off of TikTok, by the way.
- [16:31]
Farnoosh Torabi
Exactly. They're making money off their social media anyway, that's a whole other episode. And you can follow Joe Piazza too, because she does a lot of great podcasts on trad wives and stay at home girlfriends. Cooler days call for layers that last. And Quinn's is my go to for quality essentials that feel cozy, look refined, and won't blow your budget. Think about it. $50, Mongolian cashmere, premium denim that fits like a dream, and luxe outerwear you'll wear year after year. My collection from Quince includes cotton cardigans, gorgeous silk pajamas, and cozy T shirts that I can wear underneath my sweaters. What I love most is how Quint makes luxury feel accessible. They work directly with top tier ethical factories and cut out the middlemen. That's how they deliver high end pieces at half the price of similar brands. For me, it's become a one stop shop for wardrobe staples that are smart, stylish and effortless. Find your fall staples at quince. Go to quince.com sewmoney for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com somoney to get free shipping and 360 days. 65 day returns quince.com sewmoney you know how fall has a way of slowing us down. The days get shorter, the night's cooler, and at home it's all about cozy evenings, restorative rituals and making your space feel like a sanctuary. For me, that started with bowl and branch. Their signature sheets are the perfect foundation for creating comfort this season. They're buttery soft right out of the package. And the best part? They get even softer with every wash. They're breathable too, so you can layer on blankets without ever feeling too hot or heavy. And they're made with the highest quality 100% organic cotton in durable designs. This fall they're even available in limited edition seasonal colors that instantly make your bedroom feel more comforting. I can honestly say I felt the difference from night one. The sheets just have this weight and smoothness that makes you look forward to bed. Start building your sanctuary of comfort this fall with Bolen Branch. For a limited time, get 20% off your first set of sheets plus free shipping at bolenbranch.com Sewmoney that's Boland branch B O L L a n d branch.com Sewmoney to save 20% and unlock free shipping exclusions apply. Hi, I'm Madupak and Ola from TED Business and I'm here to talk about the Financial Times. Every day the world bombards you with endless headlines and noise. What matters most? Facts and context. That's where the Financial Times comes in. With clarity, depth and truly independent reporting, the FT helps you cut through the noise and see what's real and why it matters. Stay informed with the trusted source. Leaders around the world rely on. Visit FT.comSourceFT to read more and save 40% on a digital FT subscription.
- [19:41]
Jeff Bridges
Morning Zoe. Got donuts.
- [19:43]
Dana
Jeff Bridges why are you still living above our garage?
- [19:46]
Jeff Bridges
Well, I dig the mattress and I want to be in a T Mobile commercial like you teach me so Dana.
- [19:53]
Dana
Oh no, I'm not really prepared. I couldn't possibly AT T Mobile get the new iPhone 17 Pro on them. It's Designed to be the most powerful iPhone and has the ultimate pro camera system.
- [20:05]
Jeff Bridges
Wow, impressive. Let me try. T Mobile is the best place to get iPhone 17 Pro because they've got the best network.
- [20:12]
Farnoosh Torabi
Nice.
- [20:13]
Dana
Jeffrey, you heard them.
- [20:14]
Jeff Bridges
T Mobile is the best place to.
- [20:16]
Farnoosh Torabi
Get the new iPhone 17 Pro on.
- [20:18]
Lily Womble
Us with eligible traded in any condition.
- [20:21]
Jeff Bridges
So what are we having for lunch?
- [20:23]
Dana
Dude, my work here is done.
- [20:25]
T-Mobile Announcer
The 24 month bill credit is on experience beyond for well qualified customers plus tax and $35 device connection charge credit send and balance due Cancel Finance Agreement iPhone 17 Pro 256 gigs $1,099.99 and new line minimum 100 plus a month plan with auto pay plus taxes and fees required. Best mobile network in the US based on analysis by Ooklove Speed Test Intelligence data 182025 Visit T mobile.com.
- [20:44]
Farnoosh Torabi
All right, let's talk about being an ambitious woman on the dating scene. A financially ambitious, career ambitious woman.
- [20:52]
Lily Womble
And we're putting the stay at home girlfriends aside. We're blessing and releasing them.
- [20:57]
Farnoosh Torabi
You asked earlier, like why do I think or why do I feel that there's a little bit of complexity or more complexity or you know, there's, there's challenges on the dating scene for women as far as finding male partners. Well, the reason is because, I mean this is just the studies, right? And like we know that there's this thing called the male ego and we know how men have been conditioned. Right. And raised that their significance is sourced from their ability to provide financially for their mates. And so both, I would say, individuals are coming into the dating scene with these predetermined definitions of what is going to be a successful outcome for them in a relationship. And so when that is not aligned, when the woman is making more than the man. And by the way, in your 20s, as a woman living in a metropolitan city in America, you're probably making as much if not more than your male peers just because more women are going to college.
- [21:53]
Lily Womble
I don't know about her student loan.
- [21:54]
Farnoosh Torabi
Situation, but she's making more. She probably owns a house before he does. Yeah, and that can be a little threatening or a lot threatening to whoever's on the other side of the dinner table.
- [22:05]
Lily Womble
Yeah, for sure. And by the way, my asking you wasn't because I, I could guess because I hear it every single day. I just love your perspective so much. I wanted to hear what. But just getting to know your listeners specifically, like what are they? Let's get in their brains and like let's, I want to help them. So in terms of, you know, the fear of being perceived as too ambitious, too, you know, in wealthy, too, you know, intimidating.
- [22:33]
Farnoosh Torabi
Wanting too much, frankly wanting too much. Take it down a notch.
- [22:38]
Lily Womble
Yes. Well, I write about this in my book. The chapter that I write about bragging. It's chapter three of the book, and it's called the Brazen Bragging Revolution. And in it, I talk about the. This moment in the movie, the holiday, when. Are you familiar? Yeah.
- [22:54]
Farnoosh Torabi
Yeah.
- [22:55]
Lily Womble
So when Cameron Diaz, who's, like, swathed in cashmere, like, on a date with Jude Law, goes to a date, and they've, like, already hooked up the night before, but they're going on this date and whatever. And she says to him, I know last night I told you that I work for a company, but really I own that company. And I'm telling you this now because I can tell that you were raised by a strong woman. Feel comfortable telling. Right. She was, in this moment, guarding up against, like, lying to this person the night before for fear of receiving negative feedback, which obviously is very lived for so many ambitious, wealthy, badass women who are listening to this. Right. That's a lived experience. I had a client who owned her home in a very expensive city, and she went on a date with somebody who was very intimidated by that, became bristly, became, you know, defensive, out of nowhere, just when she shared. Yeah, I, like, I bought my home a few years ago. Well, you know, I'm working toward that too. Right. This man responded that way, which made her feel alone, made her feel rejected, made her feel like there must be something wrong with that, with me, maybe that. That my ambition, accomplishments must turn all these men off. The fundamental issue is that we are centering the wrong men in whether or not we believe what we want is possible. Why would we center the wrong people in our belief or lack thereof of, like, what I want is or isn't possible? Why not do the thank you more please challenge, which means go out into the world and look for tiny, tiny pieces of evidence that there might be a man who is celebratory of his partner's financial success bigger than his own. Look for that evidence, I dare you, and I promise you will see some. Right. It's about what we're turning our brain, tuning our brain to. To pay attention to. It'll become our reality. So doing the thank you more please challenge will help sort of shore up the belief that it might be possible that what I want exists. A man who is celebratory of my financial and personal Success. The other thing that I want people to do is vet folks more quickly with deeper questions. I call them qualifying, disqualifying questions. So, for example, when you're in a conversation with somebody, or maybe on a first date, instead of staying on the surface, you can ask, like, what are you proud of from this year? You know, like, what are you proud of? Tell me what you're proud of. And if they're worth their salt, they'll ask you back, what are you proud of? And you can say, I just bought a house, or I'm really, really passionate about my stock portfolio, and I'm learning more about how to be financially independent. And I'm so proud of where I came from, because that's not what I was raised to know. And then you get their reaction. And from their reaction, you can either bless and release or continue the connection based on how well they respond or not.
- [25:55]
Farnoosh Torabi
Lesson. Release means, like, I didn't like that. That's like pat on the head. Be like, okay, check, please.
- [26:05]
Lily Womble
Is that what the blessing releases? Yeah, the blessed release. I. I had a reporter ask, like, is that Southern? Because, like, you've got the bless your heart thing happening. And I. I am Southern. I'm from Alabama. But I really think that the bless for me is, like, I get to want what I want. I'm not going to blame myself for wanting what I want. I get to bless on my preferences and compassionately release and move on with my life. What are you thinking, Farnish? I see you thinking.
- [26:32]
Farnoosh Torabi
I'm thinking that in the real world, there's a. There's a ticking time bomb or clock. Right. Like, especially for women who want to, like, have kids with.
- [26:41]
Lily Womble
Yeah.
- [26:42]
Farnoosh Torabi
Like, a partner and, you know, the date. Dating can feel like what's part of what makes people anxious and, like, nervous and.
- [26:49]
Lily Womble
Yeah.
- [26:50]
Farnoosh Torabi
Through some of this stuff that you're encouraging us to slow down and be more thoughtful is because we just want to, like, tie the knot. Because I'm 38 or I'm 45 or whatever, wherever.
- [27:01]
Lily Womble
Like, I just.
- [27:02]
Farnoosh Torabi
I want to get on with. Get on with. I'm using my hair coats. Like, I want to move on. I want to move on in life, and I feel like it's just moving so slowly. So for people in the audience who feel as though everything you're prescribing is amazing and makes so much sense and it's exciting and I'm wondering, like, if I start to look for now just the, you know, the small evidence or these are the thought bubbles that people have and they're like, when is it ever going to happen for me?
- [27:26]
Lily Womble
Yeah, well, to that I'm not going to gaslight anybody who says, when is it ever going to happen for me? I want to instead validate. Like, dating is so much harder than every anybody talks about. Dating is really hard. Dating is a microcosm of every hope, joy, dream, fear, insecurity, desire that we have as human beings. So I think that the, the advice to when is it ever going to happen for me? And a friend says, oh, just it happens when you least expect it. Or, oh, just keep trying. Like, that can be mass. Massively unhelpful and invalidating to that emotional experience. Because what's happening is for a lot of folks who are, you know, striving for their. Their partner in their dating life, the biological clock is ticking. Their fight, flight, freeze or fawn mode is, like, activated. Like, they are activated in their dating life. And what happens when you're activated? You get tunnel vision. And what happens when you get tunnel vision? Meaning you're so focused, you're like, I just need to go on more dates. I just need to figure it out. I just need to find somebody. Let me text all these people. Let me work with this person. Let me figure out last ditch ever, Right? What happens? Your periphery goes away. You cannot see the opportunities on the periphery. So all of these steps don't necessarily take a ton of time if you implement them. It's just that you need your nervous system and your dating life to reset so that you can start seeing the opportunities that do exist. And then to your book's point about listening to your fear and treating your fear with respect, if you have biological clot pressure, what is, what is your fear asking you to pay attention to? You know, I'm literally taking from your episode that you did on my podcast, the Date Brazen Podcast. But, you know, what if you made a plan of having a baby solo? Like, what if you listen to the fear, made the plan so you have it it, and then also picked up, you know, the book or listen to my podcast to get some tools to start dating more wholeheartedly and quickly building hope and quickly vetting people so that you could get to the right people faster. Like, what if it was a both.
- [29:26]
Farnoosh Torabi
Hand, by the way, I cried on your podcast. So everybody should go back and listen to that episode.
- [29:32]
Lily Womble
It was so good.
- [29:33]
Farnoosh Torabi
It was. I was fine to go there. You know, I felt. I felt safe. My mom once told me that she envisioned me like her. Her vision of, like, my future husband was she actually had a physical description of him. Like someone who's gonna be like protective, a little macho. And I was like, you don't even know me. And but we have this image in our mind not of just like what this person's gonna look like, but like the things that they're going to do. Their hobbies, their personalities, their, their backstory, their family. We've been raised to think this is a, this is a good match for me. But I want to hear from you. Some of you talk about overlooking things. You know, like when we get. We're so tunnel vision because we're going on this very specific recipe for who's going to be my perfect match based on cultural expectations, how I've been raised, what I'm seeing, other people, other happy relationships. So what are we missing? Like what are we, what are some little signals of like, oh, this is actually a great quality in a person, but you're overlooking it because you're so focused on these superficial things. Things.
- [30:38]
Lily Womble
Yeah. So first you need to like figure out if you're over functioning or under functioning in terms of your preferences. And I want to unpack what this means. Over functioning is people who are really rigid. The idea of like you shall not pass. You got to have these checklist items. You need to be this height, you need to go to this kind of school, you need to have this kind of degree. You need to make this exactly this much money. Right. The rigidity is. And the over functioning and muscling and hustling is a response to the original stimuli of like I'm afraid what I want doesn't exist. So then people go into like hyper fix it mode. Over functioners. It's like classic like oldest sibling planning the whole birthday party for their 60 year old mother and then they micromanage every detail and then the youngest sibling, this is the under functioner, just shows up looking disheveled. The under functioner in response to the stimuli. Dating is hard. I'm afraid what I want doesn't exist under functioning is, is so I take my hand completely off the wheel. So I don't learn anything about this. So I don't try, I default to. It happens when I least expect it. So even though I want a relationship, I'm not going to work towards it because I don't know what to do. The under functioner. So what I want people to do is come in the middle with what I call essence based preferences. This is not a rigid snapshot. This is also not wanting somebody nice with a job Quote unquote quote this is owning what you want on an essence based level which means asking hard questions of yourself like how do I want to feel in the right relationship? What personality traits and values do I want? What are my personal definitions of those personality traits and values? If I want a certain age range, then how do I hope that age range makes me feel? Have I ever felt that way with somebody who is outside of this age range? Right. So these essence based preferences, I take people through this process in detail. It doesn't take very long. It'll take like two hours to create the most beautiful, specific essence based preferences that are like an impressionist painting. So impressionist paintings, you can look at them and see like the vibe. You don't know. You can't see the sharp outlines of people's bodies or faces or objects but you can see the vibe. You can feel the way it feels to be in that world at that picnic or whatever. And this is how my clients report back and say they found the best relationships of their lives because they, they, they tuned in with how do I feel on this date? How do I feel talking to this person? Is it in line with my essence based preferences? And that becomes the metric of do I continue seeing this person? And subtle proofs your dating life as opposed to a rigid you shall not pass or an under functioning nice with a job which inevitably both of those are going to lead you to settle. Coming in the middle allows you to be open to being surprised by the right person.
- [33:26]
Farnoosh Torabi
Also may mean leaving your house to find them and not being so glued to. Let's talk about that technology and the role that it has been playing in the dating world and the overemphasis on apps. I know you've read a lot where you've been very critical of app usage.
- [33:45]
Lily Womble
Yeah.
- [33:46]
Farnoosh Torabi
What's the right balance? And at work it's also difficult to flirt and ask people out because that can be not allowed and you could.
- [33:54]
Lily Womble
Be breaking rules there.
- [33:55]
Farnoosh Torabi
So it's like what do you do?
- [33:57]
Lily Womble
So good. So I the first video that I had go viral on TikTok was titled Dating apps are a scam. And you know I, I hate them all equally both and I think that with intention and with CEO energy, one dating app can serve you in your dating life. But I don't think that that an online dating life will feel joyful or unbothered or healthy if you don't have a really strong in person dating life. First people over index to the app apps because it is a more ubiquitous resource. The Marketing budgets of dating apps have been telling us for over a decade now that they are the answer, that they are how to find love. And you know, their shareholders are, are pretty happy. You know, I, I would say that the dating apps want you to think that they're the only way forward, which is a good indication that you need to get back in control of your strategy. So I, I want to talk about in person dating. I have a whole plan. In person dating is so difficult, especially post, you know, COVID lockdown. Again, social skills have eroded. The fear of approaching people in person, the fear of being told, oh, I'm married by somebody you're flirting with, or the fear of being rejected in person. Oh my God, like worst nightmare for people, you know, and rejection's the worst. And this is why I say that if you're willing to feel awkward, you become unstoppable in your dating life life. Because really what we're talking about is a 10 second, 20 second really intense pang of awkwardness or fear or the feeling of shame if you're shooting your shot in person. But that's not going to kill you. Like you gotta build your resilience to feeling awkward in order to get epic stuff done in your love life and everywhere. So. And these skills are very transferable to other areas of life too. So three steps to in person dating. Number one, joy building. Doing things outside of your house with people that you don't really know that bring you joy. A pottery class, a jewelry making class, a trampoline class, a meetup, a hike, a salon at your local, you know, coffee, wine bar, whatever. Even if there's nobody there who you're attracted to. Your job at these events is to make eye contact with new people people to ask questions of new people and to make new friends and which increases the quality of your life in general. And then we get into step two, which is co conspirators. This is where you help your friends help you more effectively in your dating life. Because it's not that you don't, it's not that your coupled friends or your other single friends are clueless. It's that you haven't yet had the language to help them effectively help you. Which is why in the book I give literal scripts on what to what to ask your coupled and other single friends to help them effectively set you up. How can you share your essence based preferences with your friends so that they don't set you up on a mediocre date ever again? How can you, even if you're coupled friends I give these like very specific oh no, no's in conversation where if your coupled friend says, I just don't know anybody, I don't know what to do. Oh no, no. Here's the boundary that you set. We are creating creative solutions. Let's come up with some things together. Can we go out together every other Friday night and like have a good time and you be my wing person? There are solutions to helping your coupled friends, you or other single friends. And that has led to my clients finding incredible dates through social circle connection. Some of my clients have met on TikTok with their partners. Like just shooting your shot from seeing people in other people's social media. It works. I also think that, you know, one of my clients, they were long distance co conspirators and one was in San Francisco, one was in Texas. The Texas client went to San Francisco, met a guy in the airport who lived in San Francisco, asks her, asked this guy the questions that she knew her co conspirator wanted, asked, asked him if he was single. He was. She set them up, they started dating. Okay.
- [38:08]
Farnoosh Torabi
Meanwhile, he thinks that she's into him.
- [38:10]
Lily Womble
No, she was clear. She was like, I don't live here, but I'm asking for my friend. Dude, this is clarity. Is, is queen in this, in this game. So the third and final step with in person dating is just eye contact and doing it Messy eye contact, asking questions, saying hi cute strangers in a week. Practicing this muscle of messy, courageous action will increase your resiliency and increase the likelihood of you meeting an amazing person in person.
- [38:38]
Farnoosh Torabi
Oh, you know, just like I got co conspirators when I need to find more work or get another job. Right. You gotta arm your friends who work in your industry or outside of your industry with the jobs that you're trying.
- [38:50]
Lily Womble
To look for, the role, et cetera.
- [38:51]
Farnoosh Torabi
Because I mean, every job that I've had, had full time job up until like I became a solopreneur was sourced through a friend who I'd explicitly told what I was looking for.
- [39:05]
Lily Womble
Yeah.
- [39:06]
Farnoosh Torabi
And you know, then you just improve your chances. More people out there on the prowl.
- [39:12]
Lily Womble
For you for sure. I think in person dating is such a lost art. And that's why I'm so excited that chapter seven is all about dating in person with main character energy. I think people are going to really love that chapter.
- [39:23]
Farnoosh Torabi
Yeah. And it seems like, like a great opportunity right now to practice it because there's, there's more people online probably wasting their time than actually going out and showing up in Real life.
- [39:35]
Lily Womble
Yeah. Well, and it's warm when, when this comes out. It is warm outside. Go outside.
- [39:39]
Farnoosh Torabi
Yeah.
- [39:40]
Lily Womble
Like, meet new people, shoot your shot, practice 10 seconds of courage.
- [39:44]
Farnoosh Torabi
It's.
- [39:44]
Lily Womble
It's going to take 10 seconds of courage to shoot your shot. And then you're gonna feel awkward for a second and then it'll be done and you can celebrate the hell out of yourself. Yourself.
- [39:52]
Farnoosh Torabi
Any sort of rejection, you, you know, you feel it once. You're like, oh, that was horrible. But then, you know, now you know what rock bottom is.
- [40:00]
Lily Womble
So it's like, well, there's nowhere lower than that.
- [40:02]
Farnoosh Torabi
And I didn't die, as you pointed out. So go out there again. This is kind of fun in a weird, sick way.
- [40:10]
Lily Womble
That's. The goal is to like, how can we make this joyful? Right on the way to meeting your partner. How can we, you know, get you out there more? With these tools that will. Will really increase your likelihood of meeting awesome people, help you vet people better. But then how can we make it all joyful? Because what is this? We, we have this one life. Let's make dating joyful so that you can finally feel a little fuller of yourself, feel a little more confident, a lot more confident, and start having more fun in the process of asking for and receiving what you want.
- [40:40]
Farnoosh Torabi
Lily Womble, thank you so much. What a fun time. The time flew by. Congratulations on your new book. Thank you. More, please. Available everywhere. Come back anytime. I'll come back on your podcast. Anytime, whenever I feel like crying.
- [40:54]
Lily Womble
Okay, great. Sounds good. Thank you, Farnoosh.
- [40:59]
Farnoosh Torabi
Thanks again to Lily Womble for joining us. Her book is called thank you. More, please. A Feminist guide to Breaking Down Dumb Dating Rules and finding Love. I'll see you back here on Wednesday. And I hope your day is so money.
- [41:23]
Jeff Bridges
Morning, Zoe. Got donuts.
- [41:25]
Dana
Jeff Bridges, why are you still living above our garage?
- [41:28]
Jeff Bridges
Well, I dig the mattress and I want to be in a T mobile commercial like you teach me. So, Dana.
- [41:35]
Dana
Oh no, I'm not really prepared. I couldn't possibly at T Mobile get the new iPhone 17 Pro on them. It's designed to be the most powerful iPhone yet and has the ultimate pro camera system.
- [41:47]
Jeff Bridges
Wow, impressive. Let me try. T mobile is the best place to get iPhone 17 Pro because they've got the best network.
- [41:54]
Lily Womble
Nice.
- [41:55]
Dana
Jeffrey, you heard them.
- [41:56]
Jeff Bridges
T mobile is the best place to.
- [41:58]
Farnoosh Torabi
Get the new iPhone 17 Pro on.
- [42:00]
Lily Womble
Us with eligible 20 traded in any condition.
- [42:03]
Jeff Bridges
So what are we having for launch?
- [42:05]
Dana
Dude, my work here is done.
- [42:07]
T-Mobile Announcer
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- [42:26]
Farnoosh Torabi
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