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- [00:00]
Capital One Bank Guy
Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts and no overdraft fees. Just ask the Capital One Bank Guy. It's pretty much all he talks about in a good way. He'd also tell you that this podcast is his favorite podcast too. Ah, really? Thanks Capital One Bank Guy. What's in your wallet? Term supply See capitalone.com bank Capital One NA member FDIC.
- [00:27]
Stripe Advertiser
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- [00:57]
Zynn Nicotine Pouches Advertiser
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- [01:28]
Farnoosh Tarabi
So Money Episode 1899 Ask Farnoosh.
- [01:33]
Stripe Advertiser
You're listening to so Money with award winning money guru Farnoosh Tarabi. Each day get a 30 minute dose of financial inspiration from the world's top business minds, authors, influencers and from Farnoosh yourself. Looking for ways to save on gas or double your double coupons. Sorry, you're in the wrong place. Seeking profound ways to live a richer, happier life. Welcome to SO Money.
- [02:00]
Farnoosh Tarabi
Welcome to Sew Money everybody. I'm Farnoosh Tarabi. It's Halloween and I don't have any ghost stories for you. I did follow a ghost story in Montclair. I'll actually drop that in the show notes. I did a whole piece on the haunted stories of Montclair and there were quite a few. But this story that I want to share today on the podcast has nothing to do with ghosts or goblins or spirits. It's about financial fear. I thought we could maybe open the show with some warm and fuzzy stories about the times in our lives when we've been really scared about money. I just want to say firstly that if you've ever been there and Maybe you're there right now. You're worried about making ends meet. You're afraid of losing your job. You're afraid if you might not find another job. You're afraid of, oh, all the uncertainty, right? That's so universal right now. Financial fear is running rampant. It's very common. And honestly, I'm here to tell you it's healthy. It's healthy because when we care about our money, when we are afraid of making financial choices, there's a part of us that knows that this is real, this is important, this is heavy, this can change our lives. And so my offer to us is to not shy away from this fear or run away from it, or think that we're weak when we feel it, to actually say to ourselves, okay, I'm on the road to empowerment here. I need to listen to this fear, understand what it's telling me about what I care about, and go do the thing. Now, I'm going to spend some time today on the show before we get to the mailbag, revealing all the scary times in my life that have been centered around money. And hopefully by doing this, you will, A, realize that I'm a human being, but B, also see that, like, fear around money is normal and you can be okay at the same time that things can work out. So, firstly, you may know this because you read it in a healthy state of panic. I might have talked about it on the show before, but when I was a kid growing up in Worcester, Massachusetts, I was an only child until I was about 11 years old, and my parents were very young when they got married. My mom was just 17 when she married my dad. She had me at 19. They immigrated to the United States. My mom was essentially a teenager raising me in this foreign country. Didn't speak the language, didn't have a job, didn't have a college education. And I spent a lot of time with my mom. When my mom and dad were together, things were very tense financially. I grew up in a household where money was tight and there were many loud conversations about bills and spending and a misalignment of financial goals that my parents had at the time. And as a kid, I was just like witness to all of that. And I have to say I might have to go to therapy for this. Still. I think I've unpacked it. I feel like I've moved on. What's left a sadness in me for them. And you feel helpless. I would sit sometimes. We had a small apartment, so there wasn't really anywhere to hide. I would sit in the living room, while they would fight in the kitchen. And I would see it all, I would hear it all. And you try to block it out, but you don't, you can't, you absorb it. And you grow up with this bag of memories. And I will say that those moments, while completely tough as a kid, as time went on, it was a seed. These moments planted seeds that money was something powerful. That as a woman in a relationship, you need your own money. And that when you don't have a plan for your money, when there's misalignment with your partner around money, there's trouble ahead. It can bring the worst out of people. It can also break the peace in a home. And so that fear became a teacher for me. I realized that what I feared wasn't money itself. Money is just a construct. It's the lack of control around it that sometimes we feel. And so I made a quiet promise to myself one day I would understand money, that I would never let it control me or my relationships, that I was going to make my own, that I would save it, that I would invest it. And so, as a little girl who was triggered by the sound of her parents talking to one another because it inevitably meant they were going to get into a fight, it built me as a woman who now has a career that's built entirely around helping other people with their money, to help you find calm and confidence in your financial life, as I have in mine. And so that very early memory of money, that scary memory of money, was the beginning of my wisdom, honestly, and my advocacy. Now, teen years, those are tough years, right? The fear of being less than was the big fear that I had around money when I was in high school. So my teenage years, we moved to Philadelphia, to a suburb, an area known as the Mainline. And if you're from there, it's an area where there's a lot of wealth. And we were not like them. My parents decided to move to the area because they paired up with some friends. And the idea at the time was to start a business or restaurant. And my dad, luckily did not give up his full time job. We didn't even give up our house in Massachusetts. We rented it out and we moved to Philly as an experiment, which I thought was really smart. Looking back, it was tough though, because we were not like them. We were not the wealthy family next door or at school or at the parties. And we lived in an apartment we rented. It was a two bedroom. My brother was born at this point. My brother would sleep on a Small bed next to my parents bed. I got my own room because I was a teen and I needed my space. But it was tough at the beginning. I will say, coming to school, I felt like I was in a scene from Beverly Hills 90210. All the girls were their newest handbags and the BMWs, literally, they were driving BMWs and I was on the bus, which is totally normal. But suddenly in that world, it just felt like I was the weakest link. And I remember being scared that people would find out how differently we lived. I would rarely invite people over to my house. I wouldn't tell them where I lived. I was afraid of getting pitied, of being judged somehow. Having less money than my peers. I felt maybe they would see me as less than. I wasn't mature yet. Right. I was a teenager grappling with so many things in addition to this. But I will say that when you have this fear of rejection, which I talk about in a healthy state of panic, which is really what I was fearing there, and fear of rejection goes hand in hand with the fear of money in many ways. There's a good exercise that we can all do when we feel this, which is to ask ourselves, who is doing the rejecting? Actually, because the truth was, I had friends. I felt accepted. But there was this voice in my head that was like sizing me up against everybody else, telling me I wasn't good enough. That voice was mine and mine alone. And so there was a moment where I realized I need to just embrace where I'm at. My parents actually helped me see that, look, this could be temporary. And it was. You're gonna finish high school here. What an opportunity to be with all these people who live differently than you and to learn from them. How did they get to where they are? A lot of it was generational wealth. A lot of it was hard work. But to be exposed to that, and I will say those were some formative years for me. I really started to see possibilities for myself that I didn't necessarily think were even options. Where I grew up in Worcester and Shrewsbury in Massachusetts, I think people were talking about really sophisticated things on the main Line, like going to Ivy League schools and building things and starting things. And that was exciting to me. Like, my high school actually allowed the students to direct plays, which is a lot of responsibility for a 17 year old, a 16 year old. And we rose to that occasion. So thanks to my high school for just really encouraging us to step up to the plate. And I left that experience ultimately feeling on the same Footing as my friends who had gated homes and houses by the shore and parents who were much wealthier than mine. And looking back, the other thing that fear taught me was that there is this shame and secrecy around money. But if you harbor it, it only grows in the dark. But the moment you bring into the light by being honest with yourself, by being honest with others, by asking questions, by letting people see you for who you really are, that all goes away. It starts to shrink. And so today I'm proud of that small apartment. I'm proud of my parents for doing the best that they could. And that fear of being less than at 15 years old turned into a fuel for me. It pushed me to build a life on my own terms and to think bigger for myself. Okay, now let's get to my college years. I had this terrible relationship with credit cards in college. Raise your hand if you were me. Where you go on campus and off campus. And this was back in the late 90s. So that's when marketers were handing out credit cards like candy. And they would give you free T shirts and tote bags and water bottles, and all you had to do was sign up. And I did. And by the time I graduated college and I pulled my first credit report, I think in my early 20s, I had all these credit cards. I didn't even know where they were because the point of signing up for these credit cards wasn't actually to necessarily use them. It was to get the free thing and then toss away the credit card. But some of the credit cards I used, I used badly. I thought that I just needed to pay the minimums. And I was a finance major, so I don't know what my friends who were like English majors were doing with their credit cards, but nevertheless, nobody was taught how to use a credit card back in college. And I think that might have been on purpose, honestly. All this to say I racked up four figures worth of credit card debt in college. And this is while I was getting a little bit of a stipend from my parents while I was working in college. And I remember like getting these bills in the mail, like 400 balance, $500 balance on one card, and then another card had another 600 balance. And it just felt in impossible. And of course, like that's. Don't feel bad for me. That's little right compared to the average credit card debt in this country. But it. That fear led me to avoid the mail, avoid opening up my statements. And that was my first real encounter with personal financial anxiety. This dread that comes with owing money and not having a plan. But again, the fear. I sat with it and I was like, all right, what am I going to do? I didn't run away from it. I was like, let's figure this out. And it got me to pay attention. It got me to learn how interest actually worked, how compounded interest actually worked. And I started working multiple jobs. And I have to say, that was the moment where I began to appreciate a paycheck truly for what it was and what it could do and the options that could afford you. I began working so hard. I got three different jobs. I worked in the summers. I worked during the school years. I got addicted to work, I think, back then. And maybe it was like earning a paycheck, actually, because I was always a hard worker. But this was the first time I was really getting paid. And there you go. Fear is sometimes a warning siren. You listen to it, it can change your entire trajectory. Now I'm moving on to my 20s, and I was afraid of stagnation, financial stagnation in my 20s. Everybody, I think, in their 20s, arrives. If you're lucky, if you're fortunate, you're, like, hopeful, right? When you get out of college, the world is my oyster. I was living in New York City. I had a job, I had friends. I was healthy. Life was good. But I was making $18 an hour at my first job. Second job, I'm making $44,000 a year, which is more than minimum wage. But in New York City, it doesn't go very far, especially considering I had some student loans. And I remember thinking, is this it? If I just keep staying in my lane as a financial reporter, yes, I'll see pay bumps. But will I be able to actually continue living in New York City? Will I be able to ever have my own kids and afford to pay for their food and their schooling? And so I got really scared. I was like, all these people that I work with who work in my office, few of them actually live in New York City. A lot of them are commuting an hour and a half from New Jersey or Long Island. And it's. I don't want that life. I want to be able to have freedom of location. I'd like to live in New York. Is that possible? So I got worried about the next 10 years of my life. What will I have to show for it? Will I have any savings? Will I have an apartment that I could own that's mine? And it really set off a light bulb, that fear that I need to start Taking ownership of my career. I need to start negotiating better. I need to open that 401k. And I probably need to have some side hustles. And those side hustles, I don't have to tell you, it's literally why I'm here today. I started those side hustles as a writer and I turned those articles into a book. My very first book. And the rest is history. And so I was scared. Yes. And I got curious. In my 30s, I had a major financial catastrophe. It worked out, but oh my God, it was so bad. I remember being so stressed, my hair was falling out. So I started a business with two partners in my late 30s. I had two kids at this point living in Brooklyn. And this business had all the promise. We had clients, we were excited. But beneath the surface, it was a slow motion financial horror film. There were cash flow problems, There were piled up invoices. We had to fire a production company, which set us back hundreds of thousands of dollars. We were barring against lines of credit. Yeah, me, I was hopeful that all would work out. I was like, okay, I'm financially solvent. We do have money coming in. We do have this line of credit. But in the end, it turned into just a pile of debt. It was called Stacks House. It was this financial pop up museum in Los Angeles. It was phenomenal. We did the thing, but then Covid hit and we couldn't actually leverage anything that we had done to do another one. And so we were just again sitting with a line of credit worth $300,000 that we had used. So now we're paying that back During COVID Interest rates are creeping up. Starting in 2022. It was a variable rate loan. And we were just like, no more. We gotta just pay this down today. It was so hard, I have to say. But again, that fear led me to do a couple of smart things. One was make more money. I started to just double down on some of my programs and consulting offers and workshops. And I was able to stay cashflow positive in my own business. And then I had this debt, which I chipped away at with the extra revenue that was coming in. But honestly, it was a wake up moment for my whole family. We were like, okay, this is all happening simultaneous to my son being in a private school that wasn't really supporting him and his learning differences. And at that point I was like, we're paying all this money to this private school. Is this the right choice too? I started to question a lot of the lifestyle choices we had been making. And it Ultimately all of that came to a head and we were like, we need to move to the suburbs so that we can cash out of our apartment in Brooklyn and actually put that to work. We need to stop putting money towards private school and actually find a good public school system and that'll save us money. And so we just started to really reassess. And sometimes a financial crisis does that, right? That fear makes you stop and go, okay, this isn't working out. But what else also isn't working out? Because now that I'm fixing this, why don't we fix other things too? And I'm so again glad for that moment.
- [18:58]
Capital One Bank Guy
Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts and no overdraft fees. Just ask the Capital One bank guy. It's pretty much all he talks about in a good way. He'd also tell you that this podcast is his favorite podcast too. Ah, really? Thanks Capital One Bank Guy. What's in your wallet? Terms apply see capitalone.com bank capital1na member.
- [19:22]
Sleep Number Advertiser
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- [19:26]
Farnoosh Tarabi
Can I make my site softer?
- [19:28]
Capital One Bank Guy
Can I make my site firmer? Can we sleep cooler?
- [19:31]
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- [19:56]
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- [20:29]
Chief Advertiser
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- [21:05]
Farnoosh Tarabi
So all this to say that fear is normal. I've experienced it. I've gone through it. I've learned from it. We don't have to run away from fear, especially financial fear. This is a moment for us. It could be a real pivotal time for us. Let's sit with it. Let's learn from can be an ally in building a much stronger financial life. So this Halloween, take a moment to think about the financial fears that have shaped you. Just one memory, maybe, and how you moved on from that. And maybe what was the lesson that you took from it? Was it that you became more careful? Was it that you became more thoughtful about your money? Was it that you took action, opened up an ira, paid down debt? And if you did, I want you to thank that fear. I want you to thank that voice inside of you. All right, we're going to get to the mailbag real quick. But first, episodes you may have missed this week. On Wednesday we talked about the hidden cost of competition. I have been very competitive in my life. I don't like the feeling of competition. And now I have permission from our guest this week, Ruchika Malhotra, to say, no, I'm not going to compete with that. I'm not going to participate in this competition. Ruchika is the author of the new book Rejecting Competition to Unlock Success where she challenges our belief that competition is healthy or even necessary for success. And we talk about competition in the sports arena compared to the corporate arena. And she gives us a really healthy framework that doesn't require competition. It leans on collaboration, generosity, solidarity. And they may sound soft or idealistic, but when you hear her and you understand the reframe that she really wants us to think about, you'll see that this can actually be a powerful tool to build long term wealth and healthy well being. So check out that episode Ruchika Malhotra on Wednesday and then on Monday we did an end of year financial checklist with Adriana Adams, a certified financial planner with Domain Money. You can learn more about domain money@domainmoney.com so money, we talked about all the things that are on all of our minds right now as the year winds down. Like what should I actually take care of before December 31st and what can wait till next year because that list might be longer. How do I create a spending plan that actually reflects the life that you want to live? This is a really good time to take inventory. Don't do it in January. You think you're going to have more bandwidth then. But I think we just get overwhelmed in the new year too. We get really ambitious in the new year and then by February we've petered out. So start building up momentum now slowly, so that you don't crash and burn early in the new year. Both of those episodes are up now. Wherever you like to get podcasts. And you can go to somoneypodcast.com to check em out. All right, let's hit the mailbag. We've got some excellent questions circling around themes of protection and generosity, which, if you think about it, are good antidotes to financial fear. First question is from Angie. Should I have life insurance for my kids? Angie writes, I've been a longtime listener. I love your show. I have a question. What are your thoughts on purchasing life insurance for children? We have one child who's seven years old with no health issues. Should we get life insurance for her? And if so, what type? All right, Angie, thanks for your question and for listening. This question comes up surprisingly often for parents who are thinking about their kids, their future. Should I have a college savings account? Should I get a life insurance account? But here's the truth. Yes to college savings, but in most cases children don't need life insurance, right? We talk about how life insurance is primarily designed to replace income, to provide financial support for your dependents for your kids. So you should have life insurance, but since your kid isn't earning an income, there's no income to replace. There's not a real immediate need for life insurance. There are some exceptions. For example, if your family is dependent on your kid's future modeling or acting income, like if I could imagine, like maybe Macaulay Culkin's parents had life insurance on him. Which sounds awkward, but many families are dependent on their kids for a living for their future earnings too. If you have a kid who's going to go play in the NBA or the NFL, maybe there you get life insurance. If there are significant medical concerns that could make it hard for them to qualify for coverage later, then now is the time maybe to get it for your kids. But in those very rare cases, a small whole life policy can lock in insurability for the future. So that's what you might want to look at. But for most families, the better move is to make sure that you as the parents have adequate term life insurance. I like a college savings plan. You can use a five to nine plan, put it in your kid's name and that can help them for their future education costs, but also even like current education costs. So fun fact, where I live, there is a huge financial deficit in our school district. Surprise. Actually was A big surprise. And we're scrambling to figure out how to fill the gap. And some parents are considering private school now instead of public school. And I would say to them, if you've been saving for your kids college and you weren't planning on this, pivot to private elementary school or private middle school, your 5:2:9 plan can actually be used for those grades as well. It's a new extended allowance that has come into play over the last few years. Not to derail your college savings ambitions, but sometimes it can be helpful today if you need it. Now. There's also the possibility that you could be offered a child rider through your own life insurance. And honestly, that's an efficient way to get minimal coverage, maybe 10,000 or 20,000 at a low cost, mainly to cover, God forbid, funeral or medical expenses in the unthinkable event. Otherwise your money will probably go further getting compounded in an investment or education account than sitting in a policy that may never get used. Hopefully never gets used. So bottom line, for most families, skip it or keep it minimal. Okay, next question from Lauren. Roth IRAs as a backup for emergency savings. Lauren asks, hey, Farnooch, what are your thoughts on an IRA as a backup emergency savings? I know that the traditional advice says not to use retirement accounts for savings, but for context, my spouse and I are in our early 30s. We have healthy retirement savings. We have a three month emergency fund. We have stable jobs. We'd like to invest extra money, but we're wondering if putting it into a Roth ira, knowing we could withdraw our contributions in an emergency is smarter than adding to our taxable account. All right, Lauren, I really love this question, and I think Roth IRAs have a unique superpower. You can withdraw your contributions at any time, tax and penalty free. You can't do that with a traditional IRA. You can't do that with a 401K. But a Roth IRA, yes. Keep in mind you can withdraw your contributions at any time, tax and penalty free, and the earnings will have restrictions, but the contributions won't. So in theory, yes, your Roth IRA can function as a backup emergency fund, especially if you've already got a healthy primary one, which you do now. Does it make sense to actually use it? If you're disciplined, you probably won't need to touch it unless absolutely necessary. And I'm okay with that. I think, as I said during COVID and some other times in our lives when things are just totally out of our hands. If your house is on fire, don't question the cost of water. And in the case of the Roth ira, there is no cost to taking out the water, at least not the contributions. This also can make sense if you want your money to keep growing tax free instead of sitting in cash. And it also makes sense if you're maxing out other goals. And like you said, you have stable income, so I still recommend keeping at least three to six months of your expenses liquid. A Roth IRA can take time to withdraw from too, so keep that in mind. It's not like you can go to the atmosphere if the emergency is truly urgent. Like your car breaks down. You want to have instant access to cash. So think of your Roth IRA as a viable plan B, but not your plan A. But great question. Love how you're thinking long term. Last question from Fran on holiday giving. She says farnoosh, with the holidays approaching, I want to start making my list of charities to donate to. I keep getting asked at the registers and in various emails to donate to this charity and that charity. I'm getting overwhelmed. Where can I start to research and how do I choose ultimately how to donate? All right, great. Timely question. This is a really perfect time to be thinking about this as we head into the holidays. And we know that charitable contributions come with a tax deduction. Anything that you contribute this year to a 501C3 by the end of the year, you can put that on your tax return. So first thing I would just say is before you start comparing charities, start asking yourself, what are the values that I want to uphold? What are the issues that I care most about? Whether that's education, food insecurity. We know the SNAP benefits are going away for some people. Climate, women's rights, local journalism. Hey, it's maybe hard to choose, but I would pick two to three causes that genuinely resonate and you can always change from year to year. But this year, where do you feel you want to put your dollars to work? Then you would vet these charities and these nonprofits. You can use sites like Charity Navigator, guidestar to look at the impacts their efficiency ratings. There's you can read reviews, I would think local too. There's a lot of big national organizations that do important work, but sometimes your dollars will go further with local nonprofits that don't have as much overhead. Food banks, shelters, after school programs, community arts like I love programs where they're like, your money will go directly to pay for a month's worth of groceries for a family. And then think about your budget, even a small planned amount, like 1% of your income. But you make it intentional can be very powerful. You can also consider non cash giving. So volunteering, donating your stocks, actually some of your investments, you can use a donor advised fund to make your contributions more tax efficient and meaningful. So again, thinking about your values, doing your research on these sites, I would steer clear from at the register. Do you want to round up your dollar, do you want to round up your purchase and pay this blank charity? And it's that sounds great. And you might feel guilty in the moment saying no, but the truth is, you know that 50 cents, that charity might only see a fraction of that 50 cents because think about it, the grocery store might be making some money for presenting this to you. The payment processor might be getting a cut. Like it's better to just go on the website for that charity and donate directly. So if you're inspired at the register to donate to an organization, just say great, make a note of it and go do it on your own directly with their website. All right, that's our show everybody. We got a lot of ground covered here. Insurance for Kids, Emergency Fund Strategy 2.0 how to give Smarter this holiday season and really what I want us to take away from this episode is how to transform our financial fears into financial resiliency. Money will not stop being terrifying to some of us, or a little scary even. But it's how we relate to it, right? It's how we understand it. And you can learn more in my book, A Healthy State of Panic. Stick with me here. We don't shy away from these topics. Stay safe out there everybody. I'll see you back here on Monday. Remember, Sunday is daylight savings, so we get an extra hour of sleep. We'll start the new week a little bit more rested, hopefully. I hope your weekend is so money.
- [34:04]
Capital One Bank Guy
Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts and no overdraft fees. Just ask the Capital One bank guy. It's pretty much all he talks about in a good way. He'd also tell you that this podcast is his favorite podcast too. Ah, really?
- [34:22]
Farnoosh Tarabi
Thanks.
- [34:22]
Capital One Bank Guy
Capital One Bank Guy. What's in your wallet? Term supply. See capitalone.com bank capital1na member fdic.
- [34:32]
Farnoosh Tarabi
Dear.
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Chief Advertiser
Career ladder, you've had your moment. You're linear and one dimensional. Ambition doesn't just go up anymore. It zigs and zags and squiggles where CEOs, executives, founders. We're advising companies, launching side hustles, taking breaks, defining our next act ambition on our terms. The possibilities are endless. Chief Lead on. Join us@chief.com.