1900: Money, Divorce, and Midlife Reinvention

Summary

So Money with Farnoosh Torabi

Episode 1900: Money, Divorce, and Midlife Reinvention
Guest: Tracy Burns, Certified Divorce Financial Analyst
Date: November 3, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this milestone episode (#1900) of So Money, Farnoosh Torabi welcomes longtime friend and former broadcast journalism colleague Tracy Burns. Now a Certified Divorce Financial Analyst, Tracy is devoted to helping women—especially those in midlife—navigate divorce, regain financial control, and reinvent themselves. The conversation centers on women’s financial journeys through and after divorce, addressing shame, knowledge gaps, mistakes to avoid, and essential tools for rebuilding. The episode offers empowering, practical advice in a candid, relatable tone.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Tracy’s Transition from Media to Financial Advisory

• Tracy and Farnoosh reflect on their early media careers and what drew Tracy to focus on women and finance.
• Tracy's Spark: Interviewing top women on Wall Street revealed that many, despite their success, lacked financial knowledge and were uncomfortable relinquishing control to “another old white guy.” (06:07)
• Purpose: Desire to make a meaningful impact by supporting women, especially during vulnerable times like divorce.

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The Hidden Shame and Knowledge Gap Among Women

• Why Don’t More Women Know the Basics?
  • Societal expectations and lack of financial education.
  • Tracy: “You didn’t talk about money, religion, or taxes when I was growing up. So how are you supposed to know this stuff?... We’re so hard on ourselves, we think that we’re born with this knowledge. We’re just not.” (07:40)
• The industry’s jargon is intentionally exclusive. Example: “Unch” for “unchanged” used to make outsiders feel ignorant.
  • Tracy: “It was like a humiliating and really frustrating moment... but you did it on purpose to make me look stupid... Money is not rocket science. You just got to dig your heels into it.” (08:23)

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Divorce: The Three Stages & First Steps to Regaining Control

• Divorce as Daunting but Manageable
  • Tracy advises breaking the process into stages: “Chew off little pieces at a time.” (12:27)
  • First Steps:
    • Know all household finances—down to account usernames, passwords, and basic recurring expenses like the mortgage and insurance.
    • Tracy: “Whether you’re happily married or not, make sure you know the usernames and passwords to every account. That is first and foremost.” (12:50)
  • Building Awareness:
    • On date night, introduce “one money question”—don’t try to solve everything in one sitting.

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Mistakes Women Commonly Make During and After Divorce

• Biggest Pitfall: Emotional Attachment to the House
  • Tracy: “You’re no longer married. Don’t be married to anything right now, including your home. It’s a money pit at the end of the day... You’re going to be living house poor.” (03:11 & 17:01)
  • Advises renting initially and keeping settlement money safe: “Rent until you figure out where you want to be, who’s living with you... just take a breath.” (18:28)
• Post-Divorce Financial Decisions:
  • Resist pressure (internal or societal) to make quick or showy decisions—e.g., cosmetic surgeries.
  • “Too many rash decisions made in the beginning. I have to sell the house. I have to do this. Take a breath.” (15:21)

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How Women Can Protect Themselves During Marriage

• Prioritize Transparency
  • “Whatever floats your boat. One account, three accounts, twenty accounts. But everyone must know how every dollar is being accounted for.” (24:36)
  • Farnoosh emphasizes using budgeting apps and dashboards that give real-time, shared access to all accounts—for clarity on net worth, debts, and income.
• Career Break Concerns:
  • Alimony is no longer lifetime; payments “step down” over time. Use that window to reeducate and re-enter the workforce.
  • Tracy: “Take advantage of those years, you’re probably covered pretty well... Figure out how you’re going to get there and baby step your way back.” (26:15)

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The Gender Shift in Alimony & Settlements

• Women as Higher Earners:
  • More women are now obligated to pay alimony or settlements when they earn more. It can be emotionally complicated, but fighting in court usually costs more than settling.
  • Tracy: “On some levels... fighting it out is more expensive than just settling. Just settle. Just be done.” (28:30)

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Divorce “Dream Team” — Who Should Be in Your Corner?

• Core Allies:
  • Financial advisor (ideally specialized in divorce)
  • Attorney (for legal representation; mediation can save money)
  • Accountant (for nuanced asset splitting)
  • Therapist (for emotional support)
  • Trusted girlfriends/community for support
  • Tracy: “Use the appropriate people for the appropriate things... your accountant and your attorney are going to charge you by the hour. So if you want to spend the first hour complaining about your husband, you’re paying for it.” (30:01)

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Protecting Against Hidden Assets

• Suspecting Financial Secrecy?
  • Ask about business expenses and ownership, especially with entrepreneurial partners.
  • “Find out what expenses are being put through. ‘Hey, so how do we pay for the cars? Do the cars go through the business?’”
  • If necessary, add a forensic accountant to your team. (32:20-33:48)

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Instilling Financial Savvy in the Next Generation

• Teach Kids Early:
  • Tracy bought her children fractional shares in companies they loved (Nike, Disney) and linked market events to family interests.
  • “Not a terrible way to start to ease your kids in... Instilling independence in our girls, no matter how old they are, is key to creating financial empowerment later.” (34:04)
  • Introduce money concepts with real-life relevance—choose brands your kids already recognize (e.g., Amazon, Nike, Disney). (35:42-36:59)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Tracy on money knowledge:
  “We’re so hard on ourselves, we think that we’re born with this knowledge. We’re just not.” (07:51)
• Farnoosh on money’s accessibility:
  “As women, we do much harder things every day... Getting your period once a month is harder... So yeah, let’s give women the permission to say [money is accessible].” (09:26)
• Tracy on house attachment:
  “You’re no longer married. Don’t be married to anything right now, including your home.” (03:11, repeated at 17:01)
• On alimony and new beginnings:
  “The rules have changed. I think there is a misconception out there still that people can get lifetime alimony. That is not a thing most of the time... If you could create your perfect life, you just got the opportunity to do it. No one’s going to yell at you or tell you you got to be home at night. So go do it. Consider it an opportunity, not a hindrance.” (26:15)
• On financial transparency and empowerment:
  Farnoosh: “Everyone must know how every dollar is being accounted for.” (24:36)
• On the divorce team:
  “Be efficient about this. Otherwise, you’re going to end up just drowning in bills.” (30:01)
• On instilling independence:
  “Knowing what’s going on and being independent is key. Knowing that... you will always have a job... makes me sleep at night.” (34:04)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Divorce & home pitfalls: 03:11, 17:01
• Why women lack money knowledge: 07:40–09:26
• Three stages of divorce prep: 12:27–14:16
• Post-divorce, managing a financial windfall: 14:16–15:21
• Advising women before marriage: 19:10–21:10
• Transparency in marriage: 24:36–25:36
• Career break and alimony today: 26:15–27:59
• Women as higher earners, settlements: 28:30–29:35
• Building your divorce team: 30:01–31:32
• Hidden assets & forensic accounting: 32:20–33:48
• Teaching girls financial literacy: 34:04–36:59

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Resources & Contact

• Tracy Burns on LinkedIn: @tracybyrnes
• Email: [e-mail]

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Tone: Empowering, friendly, pragmatic, encouraging women to step confidently into financial leadership at every age and stage.

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This summary highlights the substance and voice of the episode, equipping listeners (and non-listeners alike) with actionable wisdom for navigating finances through life transitions, particularly divorce.

Transcript

[Tracy Burns]

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[Farnoosh Torabi]

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[Tracy Burns]

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[Tracy Burns]

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[Farnoosh Torabi]

Jeff Bridges, why are you still living above our garage?

[Tracy Burns]

Well, I dig the mattress and I.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Want to be in a T Mobile commercial like you.

[Tracy Burns]

T teach me so Dana oh no.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

I'm not really prepared. I couldn't possibly at t mobile get the new iPhone 17 Pro on them. It's designed to be the most powerful iPhone yet and has the ultimate pro camera system. Wow, impressive.

[Tracy Burns]

Let me try.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

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[Tracy Burns]

Get iPhone 17 Pro because they've got the best network. Nice.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Jeffrey, you heard them. T Mobile is the best place to get the new iPhone 17 Pro on us with eligible trade in in any condition. So what are we having for launch? Dud work here is done. 24 month bill credit on experience beyond for well qualified customers plus tax and $35 device connection charge credit sended balance due if you pay off earlier. Cancel Finance Agreement. IPhone 17 Pro 256 gigs $199.99 A new line minimum $100 plus a month plan with auto pay plus taxes and fees required. Best mobile network in the US based on analysis by O Speed Test Intelligence data 182025 Visit T mobile.com.

[Tracy Burns]

The best.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

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[Tracy Burns]

You're listening to so Money with award winning money guru Farnoosh Torabi.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Each day get a 30 minute dose.

[Tracy Burns]

Of financial inspiration from the world's top business minds. Authors Influencers and carnous yourself looking for.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Ways to save on gas or double your double coupons.

[Tracy Burns]

Sorry, you're in the wrong place. Seeking profound ways to live a richer, happier life. Welcome to SO money. You're no longer married. Don't be married to anything right now, including your home. It is a money pit at the end of the day. I don't care how beautiful it is. It's expensive to upkeep on your own. Don't forget couples in general forget you have this pot. Let's call it $100. You're going to lob 30 of it off and give it to the attorneys. Now you're only sharing $70. And so what are you doing with that 45% each or 35% each, so to speak? It's not a lot of money at the end of the day. So your original budget covering this big beautiful home that you raised your family in, it's basically sliced in half. So you're going to be living your house poor. You're gonna be living paycheck to paycheck. And then sadly, what ends up happening is things start to go wrong in the home. There's no money to fix them. So this once beautiful home that was valued at X is now valued at less because there's all these things that can't get fixed. I know no one wants to hear it, but it's a new start, a new beginning. Start in a new place.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Wow. Welcome to Sew Money, everybody. It's a big one today. It's episode 1900. Ten Years of Conversations about money, our financial wellbe and the power that comes when we take control of our money. I can't think of a better guest to mark this milestone with than my longtime friend and former colleague, Tracy Burns. Tracey and I go a long ways back from our early days in broadcast journalism, reporting from the floor of the New York Stock Exchange and hustling to make our voices heard in a very male dominated industry. These days, Tracy is using her voice and expertise as a certified divorce financial analyst, cdfa, to help women, especially those in midlife, regain control of their finances and their futures after divorce. We'll talk about why so many smart, capable women feel ashamed about not knowing enough about money and how to change it. The biggest financial mistakes women make during and after divorce, how to rebuild your financial confidence and why sometimes the best move is to breathe. And how women can safeguard themselves in marriage, even the happiest ones, by asking the right questions. Let's get into it. Tracy Burns. Welcome to SO Money, My Friend, we go way back.

[Tracy Burns]

And I have to tell you, I've been following you all these years and it's so brilliant what you've been doing. So, oh, my gosh, kudos to you.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Likewise, Tracy. And so for the audience who, just to fill you in, Tracy and I met, oh my gosh, like 15, 20 years ago. We were both in the broadcast news trenches. We [e-mail] and then you went to Fox Business and you were a correspondent and then back to the street. So that my audience knows, I had a very kind of influential time at the Street. It was like a very pivotal time in my career, launched my first book and worked with Jim Cramer. And so I remember those years fondly. And likewise, Tracy, you have pivoted a bit. We've all kind of grown and taken from those experiences to build our own thing. And what you have built, I'm so excited for, is a wealth advisory helping mainly women reclaim their financial lives in a very difficult chapter in many women's lives, which is divorce. And you're a mom of three, right. And so you bring to this world both the professional but the personal. And maybe tell me a little bit about that transition. Like, what was the spark for you?

[Tracy Burns]

Yeah. So when I was back in media for the umpteenth time, because it kept reigning me back in, I had met and actually I was at the street and we started this project where we were interviewing rock star women on Wall Street. And one of the common threads with all of them back then was, I have money, I don't know what to do with it. And God bless old white men. The answer was consistently, I don't want to give it to another old white guy. So I was really starting to get a sense of this gap. And as I marched around and started interviewing high powered women in the industry, I realized there absolutely was. I had done my time in media. It was served me well, and I was very proud of everything I did. But I knew it was time to move on. I don't know if something happens as you get older, I want to do something. I hate to say that matters, but I want to be able to help people. And I just felt this need to pivot a little bit. And so while it makes all makes logical sense to me, my resume does make people want to grab the Dramamine sometimes. But it all brought me to where I am and this whole need and notion that there are tons of rockstar women out there that need guidance. Some of them are just not comfortable talking to men to Your point about divorced women in particular? They even more so are like, living under the covers. And so there's this big need, and I decided to dive in.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Amazing. Take us behind the scenes. Let us know. What are these women sharing with you that they wouldn't necessarily feel comfortable sharing with? Let's just say a wife, like their father's financial planner or their ex husband's financial planner.

[Tracy Burns]

It's the weirdest thing to me. Farnoosh. I don't know why women presume they are supposed to know about this stuff. You must see this all the time.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Oh, yeah. I feel so bad I never learned this.

[Tracy Burns]

How could you? No one's teaching it to you. It's not in the school systems, at least my generation and up. I'm 55. My parents didn't talk about money, so that was taboo. You didn't talk about money, religion, or taxes when I was growing up. So how are you supposed to know this stuff? You know, so that we're so hard on ourselves, we think that we're born with this knowledge. We're just not. And the worst part is many, not all men make you feel like you should know this. And they talk in jargon. I tell this story for anoosh. I was down on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange very early in my media career. And the people uptown at the Fox studios had asked me to report on the Dow transports. Never heard of that before in my life, by the way. Didn't even know what it was. It's an index, though, of transportation stocks. I understand why you would follow it if we're transporting goods. Economy's doing well. All right. So I turned to some dude and say, can you tell me where the transports are? And he says, they're unch. And it was so loud. And I thought he had asked me to lunch. And it was like a humiliating and really frustrating moment all at the same time because he looked at me like I was the dumbest human being on the planet. He's like, they're unchanged. And I wanted to say, you know what, jerk? You could have just said that, but you did it on purpose to make me look stupid. And it was like at that moment that I knew this whole. It's a. It's just like learning pig Latin in fifth grade, right? It's the same thing. It's not rocket science. I think that's if we take anything away from today's conversation. Money is not rocket science. You just got to dig your heels into it. That's it.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Like, I don't have to tell you, but as women, we do much harder things every day. Okay? Getting your period once a month is harder. And going through perimenopause is harder. Going through menopause is harder. Like if you can, if you've birthed a child, if you've broken up with someone, if you like, those are harder things, physically and mentally and emotionally, all of it. So yeah, let's give women the permission to say also. Unch is a really stupid abbreviation for unchanged, by the way. Okay.

[Tracy Burns]

This is one of many, by the way, one of many in the financial world that the bips like. How would anyone know what bips mean? Just stupid things like that.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Not only are you helping women with their money, but it's this area of divorce, this phase of divorce that you really show up for your clients. Tell us about some of the challenges in particular that women you're finding your clients have during this period of their lives, the financial challenges.

[Tracy Burns]

So I have a soft spot. Cause I am divorced. I've been on my own for 18, 19 years now. So I raised my kids as a single mom. So I have a super soft spot for it. I was fortunate enough that I had an accounting background and I was knee deep in our checkbook when we divorced. So I knew enough. So many women do not. And I don't fault anybody for that because life happens. But I think there's for some reason, again, there's this almost embarrassment that I'm getting divorced and I know nothing. You know what? Let's. Like you said, you've done all these harder things all these years. You raised the kids, you got everyone to school on time, nobody's bleeding today, which I always counted as a win when they were. You're running a household, you're doing all things. And what inevitably happens is because she and I'm going to use a heterosexual, just old school, old fashioned couple right now. Because she's doing everything. She turns to her partner and it's like trying to delegate something and it ends up being the investment accounts, the long term stuff. Because that doesn't knock the wheels off the bus today, right? She's just focused on making sure everything works today. Everyone's going to go to bed smiley happy. That's what she's doing all these years. And then all of a sudden, bam, this divorce hits her and she's again embarrassed that she doesn't know what's going on. Not her fault, but certainly not a place to be upset about. We could fix it. We grow up, we put our big Girl, panties on. And we move forward. That's it.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

So let's fix it for the woman listening who is on the brink of a divorce or still going through it. And then I want, with your hindsight, to share some advice for all women. Here are like the three to five things all women in a marriage. If you're not the one who is the CFO of the household, because I get it. To make the wheels turn into marriage. Like, it's helpful to be like, this is my department. This is your department. But not an excuse to bury your head in the sand. And we'll address that in a minute. But first, for these clients that come to you and they're embarrassed and they don't even know where to start, what is like the first month's worth of work that you do with them?

[Tracy Burns]

It's a great question. I just did a piece on Kiplingers, actually, and I divided divorce into three stages. And I think if you chew off little pieces at a time, it makes it bearable because it feels really daunting, right? You're like, I have to upend my entire life and, oh, at the end, I'm going to be alone. It's scary. Just you take it little piece at a time. So if things are starting to feel like they may be going off the rails a little bit or something's not feeling right, I would say this is the time to start to figure out your household finances. Not only is that what do things cost, but it's usernames and passwords to accounts. This is one of the biggest things that women in particular end up not knowing. Because again, he. And I'm using him. He was controlling things, right? So she's. I can't log in. I don't know the password. Go home today. Whether you're happily married or uncertain about your future marriage, make sure you know the usernames and passwords to every account. That is first and foremost. And then many of them don't even know the mortgage payment. What is your mortgage? Do you have life insurance? Start asking these questions. And just to segue into the second part of your question about women in general, I often say to people happily married, when you go out and date night, just pick one question to ask. Don't spend the whole night talking about money because you're going to ruin your date. But pick one question. How are we saving? How are we paying for college? That's it. Have a drink, talk about it, move on. Pick one question the next time you go out. Do we have long term Care, do we need it? What is it? That's it. One question, move on. Like, start just to ask a little bit at a time. You don't want to get overwhelmed in one day or one night. Little bit at a time. Just cherry picking some information.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

One thing I find with the audience members who come to me, women who are going through a divorce or post divorce, they don't know where to put their money. Listen, maybe they got a settlement or maybe they're getting alimony or childcare or whatever. And obviously childcare, you know what to do with it. But if they're suddenly like tasked with having to manage their money for the first time, what's your advice there? I've found that there's some sort of crane that I see in the industry on divorced women or midlife women that's. You never learned about money. So take this course. And it's $2,000. And then it's not what they needed to do. They could have just picked up a podcast or a book or more importantly, worked with a coach or a financial advisor and it might have been even cheaper. What are some ways to protect and maximize your money post divorce, as a woman?

[Tracy Burns]

Yeah, because that is really scary. And I was going through one of your questions. What are some of the mistakes women make when they all of a sudden have this pot of cash? I have had so many say, okay, I have to get a facelift. I'm like, no, you don't. No, you don't. Shame on society that it makes these women think that because they're. I'm getting back in the dating pool. No, what we need to do, what I love to do. First of all, I would love to say, just call me. I could easily walk you off the ledge. But do I love a financial plan? I love a financial plan. Right now you have all this stuff. You don't know where you're going or what you're doing. But I think women in particular really like to see, like, it all mapped out. Not that it's going to stay the same varnish. You and I both know we make a plan, God laughs at it and throws it out the window. But it's just a starting point. Like, before we make rash decisions, let's just talk about what you're thinking, where you think you might want to live, what do you think you might want to do? And let's just start to figure that out and take it slow. I think there's too much, there's too many rash decisions made in the beginning. I have to sell the house. I have to do this. Take a breath. You sign the papers, have a nice little glass of champagne, toast your future, and then just take a breath.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Speaking with, sticking with mistakes, what do women often underestimate when they're going through the divorce? In terms of May, if there wasn't a prenup, now we have to decide who gets what. And so things like retirement accounts, child support, alimony. The house. You mentioned the house. I read somewhere like, one huge mistake often women make is that they go, just give me the house. I don't care about anything else. Because they're so emotionally attached to the home. It's where they're raising their kids. They want that continuity and stability. They don't want to be uprooted, but they throw the baby out with the bathwater. It's, can we get more?

[Tracy Burns]

Probably 100% furnished. I always say, do not be married to a home. You're no longer married. Don't be married to anything right now, including your home. It is a money pit at the end of the day. I don't care how beautiful it is. It's expensive to upkeep on your own. Don't forget, couples in general forget you have this pot, let's call it $100, you're going to lob 30 of it off and give it to the attorneys. Now you're only sharing $70. And so what are you doing with that 45% each or 35% each, so to speak? It's not a lot of money at the end of the day. So your original budget, covering this big, beautiful home that you raised your family in, it's basically sliced in half. So you're going to be living your house poor. You're going to be living paycheck to paycheck. And then sadly, what ends up happening is things start to go wrong in the home. There's no money to fix them. So this once beautiful home that was valued at X is now valued at less. Because there's all these things that can't get fixed. I know no one wants to hear it, but it's a new start. New beginning. Start in a new place. I often suggest people rent in the beginning. Just rent. Make your life easier. Put the chunk of change in a money market or something safe. Leave it there. Rent until you figure out where you want to be, who's living with you. Are the kids coming? How often are they coming? There's so many things up in the air, just. Again, part of taking a breath, I think, is just. And you know what? I did. And not that I was. I made all the smartest decisions. We had the big blah, blah, silly house. I couldn't get out of it fast enough. And I got a little townhouse and it was the most beautiful thing for me and my kids. They were peanuts at the time. It was small. I made it super cozy. We were on top of each other. It was exactly what we all needed during that time. This big home would have just been stressful for me. I know personally it would have been stressful. So I think one, don't place. I think we place too much worry on the kids. They're pretty resilient. And two, you're going to find another beautiful home someday. The marital one doesn't have to be it.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

As you're speaking, I'm also reminded of how expensive divorce can be. The lawyers and what whoever else you're hiring and the loss of some assets. Now let's talk to the women who aren't married yet and the piece of advice they need to know. Like as you're entering a courtship, a marriage with somebody, what are the financial sort of steps to take to at as best as they can, you can safeguard yourself from a very expensive divorce. We're not saying it's going to prevent the divorce, but I think someone once said getting married is the biggest financial decision you'll ever make or who you marry.

[Tracy Burns]

That too. But I actually heard someone once say it's a business partnership with sex. Which on some level there's that. It's funny, there's been research done. Ubs, my old firm actually did some research on millennials and even they are abdicating financial decisions to their partners because the kids are little and they're running around and they have full time jobs and they're again they're saying just take care of something. So I think if you are entering a relationship, what I would tell my two daughters, even if you're not hands on and knee deep in it at least once a week, Saturday morning when you're having coffee together, ask questions, where are we with things? What's going on? Many people have different opinions about segregated accounts. His, hers and ours. If that works for you and it's not going to cause problems in your marriage. I say why not? Why not? I think that you have to really think about what's going to work for you. The old norms are just old norms. That's exactly what they are. So get rid of them. This notion that we need everything to be joint and we're together forever. I don't want to be like the girl that is down on marriage, but nobody gets married and plans on getting divorced. It just sadly happens and so protecting yourself from the get go is key.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

When my family decided to head to Pennsylvania this fall to catch a Penn State game, hotels were ridiculously priced. So we booked a home on Airbnb just a few minutes from campus. A cozy place with room for all of us, a kitchen for our game day breakfast spread, and even a backyard fire pit for post game s'. Mores. It turned a hectic football weekend into a real getaway that was comfortable, affordable and fun. And it got me thinking about the hosts behind these stays. For people who want to share their homes but don't always have the time to manage everything themselves, Airbnb's co host network can help. A co host can handle things like managing reservations, messaging guests and on site support, so hosting stays stress free and manageable. It's a smart way to turn your space into a source of passive income or without adding to your to do list. If you've ever thought about hosting but want a little help, find a co [e-mail] host.

[Tracy Burns]

Dude, did you order the new iPhone 17 Pro? Got it from Verizon, the best 5G network in America. I never looked so good. You look the same, but with this camera everything looks better.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Especially me.

[Tracy Burns]

You haven't changed your hair in 15 years. Selfies check please with Verizon.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Get the new iPhone 17 Pro, designed to be the most powerful iPhone ever, plus a new iPad and Apple One. No trade in needed. Offer ends November 5th with a new line on Unlimited Ultimate Best 5G scores Root Metrics Data United States 202025 all rights reserved. Additional terms apply for all offers. See verizon.com for details. Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts and no overdraft fees.

[Tracy Burns]

Just ask the Capital One bank guy. It's pretty much all he talks about.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

In a good way.

[Tracy Burns]

He'd also tell you that this podcast is his favorite podcast too. Ah, really?

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Thanks Capital One Bank Guy what's in your wallet? Terms apply see capitalone.com bank capital1na member FDIC if your eyes are the windows to your soul and your glasses are the windows to your eyes, then it's pretty important to find your perfect frames. That's why at Warby Parker, we've made shopping for eyewear as easy for you and fun as can be. Peruse endless styles in our stores or use our app to Virtually. Try on frames and get personalized recommendations. To find your next favorite pair of glasses, sunglasses or contact lenses, or to locate your nearest Warby Parker store, head over to warbyparker.com that's warbyparker.com Transparency is so important. And I will say it again. I use this free app. They don't pay me to. They should start paying me though. Promote them enough, but empower the company. They're a retirement investment brokerage. They have a free dashboard that is also an app on your phone where you can open an account, pull all of your like financial accounts to it so it has a running list of your checking account, your retirement account, your 529. You can put your home value in there so you see your net worth at the top, you see your debts, you see your assets. And then you can invite your partner into it with their own login and then they add their accounts. So together you have this one page to look at everything. And if you're curious, like what? Some people don't even know how much their partner earns. You can actually see the paychecks hitting that his account every month and other things. But it's just, I think so important. Whatever you do. You mentioned yours, mine, hours. I like the three buckets. But I've since changed my tune on the how to arrange my finances to say whatever floats your boat. One account, three accounts, 20 accounts. But everyone must know how every dollar is being accounted for.

[Tracy Burns]

Exactly.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

So that's the most important thing.

[Tracy Burns]

I think you make such a valid point about not knowing his or her salaries. It's. It blows my mind because that is a thing. I had a woman, she had no idea what he owned and yet she had two homes and a country club membership. She had all these things. So you could presume he makes a lot of money. It startles me that women can talk about everything for hours, right? You and I could spend days talking about the best peanut butter to serve our kids. We can talk about menopause six ways till Tuesday, sex. Even when it comes to money though, there's like this silence. Whereas men, they put it right on the table. I make X amount of dollars and I'll sell my company for this number, no questions asked. So we have to start to get better.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

About that I agree. There are many women who throughout their marriage, they give up their careers. They choose to be caregivers primarily. And then they lose their earning. Although they have a lot of economic value to the home, they don't actually earn a paycheck. And Then suddenly they're getting divorced. I find that's the hardest thing. Right? Because now you're not just reeling from the maybe getting educated on all the finances of the family for the first time, but now you really have to support yourself and get a job. And how do you do that? Are you having these conversations? I'm sure the woman with the country club, I don't want to jump to conclusions here but maybe she's got to go out and get a job now.

[Tracy Burns]

So the rules have changed. I think there is a misconception out there still that people can get lifetime alimony. That is not a thing most of the time. I'm sure there's exceptions to the rule, but most of the time, and I'll tell you, the financial crisis really is, was the big reason for it. It was during the financial crisis in particular, maybe even the dot com bubble, it went back that far. But you had all these people making a ton of money got divorced. There were these big payout alimony numbers and the guys, now I don't have a job, the heck am I going to do? So it was then that they started going back to court. You're not getting lifetime alimony, you're just not. What you are probably going to get is some step down system, right? So you're going to get paid out decently in the beginning. Shame on you if you don't take advantage of those years. Take advantage of those years, you're probably covered pretty well. Figure out what you want to do because you're smart, you got here in the first place. Figure out how you're going to get there and baby step your way back. Maybe it means you need to start taking a couple classes while you can or some courses. Like you said, there's enough out there. Like start educating yourself, get back into the system. Start reading websites and blogs of your industry or whatever it is you want to do. Maybe it's a career change, who knows? It's an opportunity. I remember when I got divorced, I went to a dear friend of mine who is still a dear friend to this day and he said to me, God gave you a blank slate. What are you going to do? And it was the best advice I ever got. But that's what it is. If you could create your perfect life, you just got the opportunity to do it. No one's going to yell at you or tell you you got to be home at night. So go do it. Consider it an opportunity, not a hindrance.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Yeah, I have a friend who made more than her husband during their marriage, significantly more. And they had a. They battled it out in their. In divorce court. He sued her. Gosh, it was ugly. And for her own mental health, she gave him the house. She gave him, like, a huge check. But this might not be your average clientele, but there are women out there now making more than men their husbands, and maybe they're going to be caught by surprise when they're getting divorced. There is alimony for men, too.

[Tracy Burns]

So talk a little bit about that.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Like, how common is that? Yeah.

[Tracy Burns]

And it's interesting. I'm dealing with a client right now, and she got stock options and she got all the things, and he's pleading poverty, so it's the same thing. And it's funny. Someone once said women don't want to pay if they have to, but they have no problem asking for it on the other side. And I don't think that's true at all. I think what happens is she's also been doing everything else right. So she's. I've been taking care of the house. I've been taking care of the kids. Plus, I make more money than him, and now he wants a big half of my check. It becomes, like, a little squirrely. That said, on some levels, and I hate to say this, fighting it out is more expensive than just settling. Just settle. Just be done. If you truly want to be done and you want to move on, the money that we're quibbling over at the end of the day is not going to really make or break you. It's nine times out of 10, everyone's standing on what, you know, principle. But it's principal. I can't give him this. Just give it. Just settle.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Cut your losses.

[Tracy Burns]

Cut your losses. Exactly right.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

You often talk about the importance of surrounding yourself with really supportive people. Obviously, yes. A certified divorce financial analyst. I'm grateful because actually, people come to me and I need someone to help me. I'm going through a divorce. So now I've got. I'm gonna just send them to Tracy. Thank you. Who else should be in your corner? Who can you trust during this kind of time and transition?

[Tracy Burns]

It's hard, right? So in a perfect world, you have a financial advisor that you love and trust. You have to figure out how you're going to do this legally. You can't. People like to think they'd go online and get divorced. No. If you could mediate, it saves you so much money. But both parties have to be on page with that. That's often not the case. You do need access to an accountant, because there are some serious issues that need to be discussed. Your financial advisor should know these answers. But like you said earlier, taking the house and giving him the investment portfolio is not an even exchange. He can go sell those stocks and take a trip to Europe. You are stuck until you sell that home. So it is not equal. So you need at least an advisor, maybe an accountant on your side. I would also say do not discount therapy and do not discount your gaggle of girlfriends because it is so important. To your point earlier, who do you trust? You need your girlfriends in your corner. You need to be able to just release and relax and talk it through. Because I will say, in theory, your financial advisor, accountant, and attorney are not your therapists. And be careful with that, because at least your accountant and your attorney are going to charge you by the hour. So if you want to spend the first hour complaining about your husband, you're paying for it. Be careful about that. Use the appropriate people for the appropriate things. Be efficient about this. Otherwise you're going to end up just drowning in bills.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Here's another story for you. I don't know how this happened, but couple gets divorced. He was an entrepreneur. She had a stable job. He claimed, like all of his wealth was in the business, so he didn't have any liquidity. So I think she had to pay him a bit in that divorce. But then afterwards, he went and rented a really fancy apartment, and she thinks he did have money and he was hiding it. How does that happen in a divorce proceeding? And for the woman, I'm thinking now, who wants to get a divorce but hasn't announced it yet, how can she get her financial ducks in a row now? And what. What does she need to know about her partner's finances? Potentially things that he's not telling her. How can she get those answers without raising alarm bells? When I first hire a private detective.

[Tracy Burns]

Right, Forensic accountant. So when I was trying to make a decision to get into this business, I. Everybody prays to whoever they pray to. And I was looking for a sign. And I sat across from a woman and she passed two pieces of paper in front of me. And she said, you know what this is? It was a bank account in Costa Rica. He was funneling money, so he was anticipating this divorce. I think, especially if your partner owns a business, find out what expenses are being put through. Hey, so how do we pay for the cars? Do the cars go through the business? Like, maybe it's worth starting to ask some of those questions, because the more you start to understand Especially with business owners, about what goes through. Then you can start to get a sense of what really goes through and what's there. You can't hire. I'm joking. You can't hire a friends accountant when you're in theory happily married. But you might want to do that on the other side because there's so much money that. And there's so many ways to hide money, especially if it's a family business. Your partner has brothers and sisters. All of a sudden, the brothers and sisters now are full owners and your partner is just an employee. All of a sudden, all his ownership went away. How'd that happen? Because they potentially were planning. Right. So you just have to be careful. Ask again, gently. Ask some questions. What's your ownership stake in this? Or what happens in the end? Or God forbid, one of the partners dies, what happens? That's always a great question.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

That's a good question. That's a good question. So maybe add a forensic accountant to your divorce dream team.

[Tracy Burns]

If you have a business, I would say maybe. Yeah.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Yeah. Our time's almost ending. I'm going to revisit your life as a mom. And you have three grown daughters. What are some money lessons or habits that you have tried to instill in them as a result of your own journey?

[Tracy Burns]

Tracy, just a big reminder that this is not taught in school. I had these brilliant kids, accounting finance majors out of great colleges. They're not taught how to write a check or fill out a W4. So just ask questions. Lots of them. I started my kids at a very young age with little shares of stock. So my son loved Nike and my daughters loved Disney. And we bought shares and it just got them involved and they watched it. Not a terrible way to start to ease your kids in. And again, the girls in particular. I am not down on marriage. I think everyone should be married. It's beautiful. But knowing what's going on and being independent is key. Knowing that part of the reason I got my MBA in accounting is my mother always said to me, God forbid anything happens, you will always have a job. And she's right. I could always go do tax returns. If push comes to shove. I always have a job and it makes me sleep at night. So I think just instilling independence in our girls, no matter how old they are, is key to creating financial empowerment later.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

I love the stock idea. Tell me more about that. Because I have an 11 year old and an 8 year old. I definitely think they're ready. We talked about investing. They understand that you can own Shares of a company. And like Disney and McDonald's and Nike, they're all publicly traded. How did you engage them? Like, now we have. I know I can go online and buy a hundred dollars worth of like, we have Mac. We have micro shares or fractional shares now that you can buy if you don't want to spend like the full $300 to buy Apple One share. But then what? Like, how do you keep them engaged?

[Tracy Burns]

So we would just touch base every now and then or if there was news. Nike was a great one to have because my son was so in the, in the sports world. And he would say, just got a deal with Nike and then we would go check the stock. That was really cool. That one, actually, I thought was my most teachable stock. Disney was great for the girls because they would come out with new movies and thankfully they were older when all the other most recent stuff happened. But when they were little, every time. What was the movie with Moana when they were kids? I can't think. Hawaiian one.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Moana. Moana.

[Tracy Burns]

Moana.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Okay.

[Tracy Burns]

Moana. I'm too old.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Yeah.

[Tracy Burns]

Anyway, right? What is it?

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Keeps it simple.

[Tracy Burns]

Yeah. They built a new section of the park. This is so cool. What does this do to the stock? So it was easy. I joked that there should be. I still mean it. A stock index called the laundry list. I remember one time sitting like on the floor of my laundry room, like scrubbing my kids uniforms, thinking to myself, everyone should own Clorox bleach. Everyone should own Under Armour. Everyone should own Tide. Like all the things that you use on the regular. That's how you engage. Amazon's an easy one. How many times do you hit Amazon, Amazon's an easy one. Things like that. And then just every now and then you just. Oh, my God, look what Amazon is doing. I wonder what the stock's doing.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Yeah, brilliant. Get stocks where they're. They have an awareness of what's going on and they're following it naturally. Tracy Burns, thank you so much. Tell us how we can get in touch with you in addition to like coming to me and asking. And I will forward you to Tracy, but tell us your website, all the things.

[Tracy Burns]

So probably the easiest is LinkedIn and email. So LinkedIn, I'm @tracy Burns, it's T R A C Y B Y R N E S. And my email is T Burns. T B Y R N E S at Lebenthal. L E B E N T-H-A-L.com cool.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Account and just start.

[Tracy Burns]

And my children. That's All I do is stalk my kids right now on Insta, get them.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

To start an account for you. You know how to be in front of a camera? Come on, Tracy. Why do I have to be the one to tell you to do this?

[Tracy Burns]

I know my daughter's like, why aren't you on TikTok? I'm like, I know. I'm getting there.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Yeah, next year. There's always next year. I'm so grateful for this and thank you for sharing all this wisdom with us. Appreciate you.

[Tracy Burns]

Me too. And I appreciate you. And again, congratulations on everything.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Thanks so much to Tracy Burns for joining us. We'll have her LinkedIn in our show notes as well as her email. I'll see you back here on Wednesday. And I hope your day is so money.

[Tracy Burns]

Dude, did you order the new iPhone 17 Pro? Got it from Verizon, the best 5G network in America. I never look so good. You look the same. But with this camera, everything looks better.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Especially me.

[Tracy Burns]

You haven't changed your hair in 15 years. Selfies check please with Verizon.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Get the new iPhone 17 Pro. Designed to be the most powerful iPhone ever. Plus a new iPad and Apple One. No trade in needed. Offer ends November 5th with a new line on Unlimited Ultimate Best 5G Tours. Route Metrics the United States 2020 25. All rights reserved. Additional terms apply for all offers. See verizon.com for details. Taking care of your eyes shouldn't be a hassle. That's why Warby Parker is a one stop shop for all your vision needs. Our prescription glasses and sunglasses are expertly crafted and unexpectedly affordable. Stop by a nearby store or use our app to virtually try on frames and get personalized recommendations. Did we mention we offer eye exams and take vision insurance too? For everything you need to see, Head to your nearest Warby Parker store or visit warbyparker.com today. That's warbyparker.com.