← So Money with Farnoosh Torabi
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- [00:00]
Sleep Number Representative
Why choose a Sleep number Smart bed.
- [00:02]
Jen Kim
Can I make my sight softer?
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Rippling Advertiser
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- [01:12]
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- [02:00]
Farnoosh Torabi
The secret to launching big ideas faster and better.
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Farnoosh Torabi (Podcast Intro)
You're listening to so MONEY with award winning money guru Farnoosh Torabi. Each day get a 30 minute dose of financial inspiration from the world's top business minds, authors, influencers and from Farnoosh yourself looking for ways to save on gas or double your double coupons. Sorry, you're in the wrong place seeking profound ways to live a richer, happier life. Welcome to SO Money.
- [02:32]
Jen Kim
A lot of people think that it's just about vision or it's just about execution. And we also put visionaries on pedestals, which actually is a big problem, because visionaries don't actually do much except vision, which is critical. Yes, we need their ideas. We need those ideas to move the world forward. But in terms of actually activating them and making it happen, it's the strategizing and mobilizing energy that actually makes the thing happen. And you have to learn as a leader how to enroll those people into your ideas if you're a visionary.
- [03:07]
Farnoosh Torabi
Welcome to Sew Money, everybody. I'm Farnoosh Tarabi. Here's the question. What does it really take to launch a big idea? One that can change your career, it can transform your business or even the world? Is being a visionary enough? Or is there a hidden formula to make things happen? Our guest today, Jen Khem, says it's all about building the right unicorn team. Jen is a brand strategist, entrepreneur, and author of Unicorn the nine leadership types you need to launch your big ideas with speed and success. Jen's spent her career working on iconic initiatives for companies like Microsoft, Coca Cola and Oracle. And now she's pulling back the curtain on how success comes from more than just great ideas. It's about rallying the right types of leaders, each with unique strengths to bring those ideas to life. So in today's episode, we're going to discover how to identify your leadership type. Learn how one small team at Moderna took on giants like Pfizer to lead the COVID vaccine race. And we're going to hear how technology and AI are reshaping leadership roles. And here's the twist. Even if you're a solopreneur or running a small business like I am, this book is still important. Jen's framework isn't about having a massive team. It's about understanding the roles and energies you bring to your work and how to fill in the gaps to achieve success faster with less burnout. We're going to cover the three leadership types. Which one are you? And with all the backlash we're hearing against De and I, why diverse voices need more representation in leadership conversations. Here's Jen Kim.
- [04:52]
Farnoosh Torabi (Interviewer)
Jen Kim, welcome to Sew Money. Congratulations on Unicorn Team. I have been following your ideation for this book, the marketing for this book, the writing, all of it. I'm so excited for you. Welcome. I can't wait to share this idea with our audience.
- [05:10]
Jen Kim
Oh, Varnish, I'm so excited to be here and thank you for inviting me to chat about it today.
- [05:16]
Farnoosh Torabi
Of course.
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Jen Kim
You and I go way back.
- [05:18]
Farnoosh Torabi (Interviewer)
Way back. Yeah. Maybe we should tell the audience how we met. I met you at one of my book to brand workshops. I think it was our last one before the pandemic. Yeah. And a friend pulled me aside after that workshop and said, okay, real talk. Which of those clients do you think is really gonna do it, is gonna get to the finish line with their book? And I said, jen Kim. Said Jen Kim. I, you know, I put it out in the universe for you. Although you don't need any help on that front. You are such a creator. You put things out in the world. You don't just say it, you do it. You've worked with some of the most iconic campaigns and launches in the world. Aside from this book, you have worked with so many incredible brands. What moment or project in your career made you realize, I have an idea that I need to tell the world about, and it's called the Unicorn Team.
- [06:14]
Jen Kim
Such a great question, because, you know, I obviously am an entrepreneur now. I'm a business owner. I have a brand firm where we bring brands to market. But really, all of my professional career prior to this was in the corporate world. And I worked with and for big companies like Coca Cola, Microsoft, agencies like Ogilvy, or. And then companies like Oracle. When you think about brand, a lot of people don't think about team per se. They're like, oh, you know, brand is messaging, brand is culture, brand is a lot of things. And I like to say brand is everything, actually. And so when I was writing this book and even reflecting why this book was the first one, I really wanted to write it. It was based on my last big go to market brand initiative in corporate, which was bringing something that we all take for granted today, which is streaming video like Netflix, Hulu, and all the things. That was my last big project. And I was this go to market brand strategist. A lot of people probably, if this show existed back then, would have probably called me the Olivia Pope of go to market, because I was the one that they would bring in when there was a big initiative that was culture changing and market changing and being able to manage all the dynamics and complexity, but especially around the people involved, because whenever an organization is bringing a new product to market, that actually even changes their business model, which in this case, a lot of people don't realize this, but video streaming changed telecommunications on its head because video streaming actually was born from telecom, who was transforming, going from good old telephone service and even cell phone service to actually bringing video to market and so that was the big project and my last project in corporate because it was bringing that project that changed the world to market. That made me realize that, oh, brand is even more about who will rally people around a new idea internally first, so that externally people want it. And so that's where really the concept of unicorn team, in my own reflection, after leaving corporate and diving into my own consulting and brand building business, that I realized, oh my gosh, it's gotta be about that first. And so that's what started this idea and why I felt it was so important to bring it to the world.
- [08:53]
Farnoosh Torabi (Interviewer)
You've identified nine leadership types in your unicorn innovation model. Tell us about this. It's central to the book, how you did you develop the framework. And for those listening, how can they identify which type of leader they embody? I'll go first. I think I'm.
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LinkedIn Advertiser
I don't.
- [09:12]
Farnoosh Torabi (Interviewer)
I forget the name from the innovation model, but I'm not somebody who likes to have a big team.
- [09:19]
Farnoosh Torabi
Mm.
- [09:20]
Jen Kim
Actually what's interesting is even though the title of the book says unicorn team, it's not about how big you want your team, it's about who you are first on the team. So you're part of the team. And that's part of the first concepts of the book, is that a lot of times the leader, whether you're in corporate, whether you have your own business and you're mainly solopreneur ing it, like doing it mainly on your own, you're still part of a team. Let's answer kind of like, what are the three types? And then we'll talk about how you apply that. So the three type of types are the visionizer, the strategizer, and the mobilizer. And each one of us is a mix of the top two types. That's why there are nine types central to the book. So, for example, I'm an sv, so so I'm a strategizing visionizer. So remember vsm. So visionize, strategize, mobilize, and what A visionizer's main desire and strength is that they gain energy from their ideas. Okay? So they think about the future. It energizes them. Even when things are rough or tough, they can push through because their ideas really focus them. Okay. The strategizer, energy or role is really energized by results. Okay? So the strategizers are the people who love figuring out how to actually make the idea work, how to get the idea to work inside and outside. And so that's why I'm A high S. Because that's why I get hired really to do and work in many places. Because strategy is the glue between vision and execution. Okay. And it's actually something that a lot of people, I think that are small business owners don't understand is so critical. And why 97% of people don't get the results that they want is because they don't have a sound strategy and a strategizer role on their team. Then the third type is the mobilizer, which really is energized by doing. They are energized by accomplishment. And by accomplishment, they don't care if it works, they just care that it's done. And so when in observing all the teams that I had the privilege to lead during my corporate career and now where I work with personal brands, I work with corporate brands, and I work with small teams, is what I'm looking for is how are those energies represented on the team that you have? And the team can be you and a part time virtual assistant, right? It can be you're leading a bigger launch of a product that you want to bring to market and you hire a few contractors to come and support you with that. It doesn't matter what size the team is. It's about are those energies and skills represented inside of the initiative that you're trying to bring to market? Because this book is about bringing your idea to market. It's not about operations. Yes, you need those things. But I wanted to bring this book to people to understand that there's something before that there's a strategy of how to bring it to market and then identifying the unicorns, the people who actually have the energy that it takes to move big ideas forward. I would probably say that just what I know about you, and we'll see if you take the assessment. Because inside of the book there is an assessment called the Unicorn Leadership Type assessment, or the ulta, we call it the ULTA for short, where you can figure out what your unicorn leadership type is. And when you read the book, it gives you a lot of that context. But also the report itself that you get is 51 pages. So you get the book plus you get this report that really details what energizes you to bring these books to market. Because there's a lot of books out there that talk about productivity. They talk about time, how to use your time better. My book is about how to access the actual physical and emotional energy to bring that idea to market and how you rally people or unicorns around that idea. Because that's actually what makes ideas that we all love adopted by the world. And when I say ideas, it doesn't have to be the next Apple. It can be literally your Book to Brand workshop that I got to attend many years ago that now the outcome that we both get to talk about and be proud of is that there's this book, this idea that I had that I wanted to bring into the world. And the vehicle, one of the vehicles for that was your workshop Book to Brand. And to put Book to Brand together, you decided as a leader that you were going to do it because you had, you know, people and content that you could teach to us. And then you rallied other, quote, unquote unicorns. Because one of the things that you do at Book to Brand is you bring other skilled experts to support us. Whether it's like, how does the publishing industry work, what's a good through line messaging for your book, what's the actual idea of the book? So you didn't know it maybe at the time, but you actually assembled a unicorn team to be able to bring your idea to market so that other people would adopt it too. And so it's this thinking that's inside of my book that I want more people to embody because a lot of people think that it's just about vision or it's just about execution. And we also put visionaries on pedestals, which actually is a big problem because visionaries don't actually do much except vision, which is critical. Yes, we need their ideas. We need those ideas to move the world forward. But in terms of actually activating them and making it happen, it's the strategizing and mobilizing energy that actually makes the thing happen. And you have to learn as a leader how to enroll those people into your ideas if you're a visionary. And so that's kind of a what, three minute overview on how the BSM thinking works.
- [15:28]
Farnoosh Torabi (Interviewer)
This is such an important mind shift because to your point, we are many of us walking on this earth embodying whether it's the visionizer, the strategizer, the mobilizer. But to identify that to be able to then read your book and understand how to leverage that is game changing. I want to just shout out that of course I endorsed your book, but the Seth Godin also endorsed your book. He doesn't endorse books habitually, let's just say. And he dropped everything to read it, immediately endorsed it. I think that says a lot. Now you open your book with this incredible story, very timely too, about how moderna's vaccine rollout came to be. I didn't know the woman who was behind this and interestingly enough, this individual wasn't in the C suite, let's just say. And Moderna wasn't even in the realm of producing vaccines. And so it was this sort of surprise brand that came out and not only put it put out a vaccine, but put out one of the most sought after vaccines. Can you tell us that story? And through that story, talk about how it's a case study for the unicorn team?
- [16:45]
Jen Kim
Yeah. You know, it's funny because we live in a world where things are so charged and I thought when I was thinking about what's the opening story, I really want to choose because there's a lot of stories I could have told about unicorn team. There's literally thousands. But when I stumbled upon this story and got fascinated how no one knew the name Moderna, Dolly Parton actually gave money to Moderna to rule out the vaccine and that they had done it in 42 days. Right? 42 days from when the core antibodies were released to Pfizer, Johnson and Johnson and this little company called Moderna that didn't even have product in market. Those of you listening, that's actually not weird because companies like Moderna exist everywhere. Companies that actually do some other research and develop and build products for external products, that's the kind of company they were. They decided to get into the game of the external product because they realized that if they focused their energy of all the research they had already done on vaccines, they felt like they could throw their hat in the ring and help support getting us through one of the worst pandemics in humankind. And so I got really curious because of what I know. As I told my story earlier, there's always usually one or two people that have really kind of rallied it to happen. And in investigating that, I found Tracy Franklin, who was the head of HR at Moderna. Now also a lot of people think HR not innovative, right? Not most people think of HR as just a figurehead kind of department. Right. In a company. And I was so intrigued how Tracy Franklin as head of hr, her first thought was how do we take care of our people? Knowing that the world was shutting down, all of her scientists and other employees were going to be basically on furlough because every the world shut down, right? Sitting back, why don't we get into the game? And it was her idea that she brought to the board to say, I think we can do this if we rally our scientists around this idea and she was the head of hr. And most people think of innovation being started or championed by the head of technology or, you know, the head of market research, and she was the head of the people. And so anyway, the board said, you know what we do have? We have the science, we have the team. Let's go for it. Because everybody was really experimenting, frankly, to do this. And so they got to work. And because they were actually more nimble and smaller, like actually a tiny team compared to Pfizer and Johnson Johnson, which are behemoth companies. Right. They decided to get in there with their tiny team. They had 900 employees, whereas Pfizer has, I think, something like over a hundred thousand employees. So we're talking about 900 versus a hundred thousand. And they got to market faster. And their vaccine, even to the time of this recording, is the most effective vaccine of the three that were rolled out, meaning they didn't have any huge adverse side effects. And again, Dolly Parton endorsed them. And that's the kind of free PR that every company wishes they had. Like the queen of country music saying, she actually changed the name her song, Jolene.
- [20:18]
Farnoosh Torabi (Interviewer)
This needs to become a movie. Can you write the screenplay for this?
- [20:21]
Jen Kim
This? Yeah.
- [20:22]
Farnoosh Torabi (Interviewer)
Like, it already has a score. Like it already has soundtrack.
- [20:24]
Jen Kim
Because Jelly, right? It has everything.
- [20:27]
Farnoosh Torabi (Interviewer)
Has all the elements of a Hollywood drama.
- [20:30]
Jen Kim
Yes, exactly. So that's why I chose it, because I thought it was really cool. And I thought that I also wanted to show people that you are probably the next Tracy Franklin, potentially in the corporate world, and maybe, or maybe you already are, and people don't know about it and you don't have maybe a desire to be, like, on the COVID of Forbes as the top CEO in the country or, you know, and I think that's another reason why I chose the story that I did was because I wanted to show people. We live in a world right now where young people especially think in order to be successful in the next era of the world, I need to be a content creator. I don't have anything to say negative about that, but I actually think that a lot of people, regardless of your age, don't want to be influencers or they don't want to be content creators. They actually want to make a difference. And we put visionaries, as I said, on such a pedestal that we haven't seen that you can make a huge contribution and feel so good about your. Who you are and why you're here by understanding your role on a unicorn team. And for me, being an sv, that's what I enjoy doing is I love. I get energized by working with the V's of the world and showing them like here's who we really need to enroll so that you can get this next great idea out there without burning out, without being overwhelmed and frustrated. It doesn't matter if you choose to have a small company or you have bigger scaling ideas. Every single company that we admire today started in the same place. You know, across a kitchen table, in a diner, in a garage, just yapping about this big idea that we felt was really important to pursue and just some people choose to pursue it like Steve Jobs and make an Apple. And some people are like you and me who where we prefer to create smaller teams and curate our ideas based on our particular skills, talents and desires. But Unicorn team is a size agnostic idea is my point. Like it's not about the size of the team, it's about that you understand that these roles are important for any.
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Farnoosh Torabi (Interviewer)
Size idea A friend of mine just.
- [22:42]
LinkedIn Advertiser
Got back from Provence, where she stayed.
- [22:44]
Farnoosh Torabi (Interviewer)
In the dreamiest home she booked on.
- [22:46]
LinkedIn Advertiser
Airbnb with her family picture. Rolling lavender field, fresh croissants on the terrace, trips to local markets, long hikes through vineyards. It sounded straight out of a postcard. What struck me most was how it felt both luxurious and homey, like stepping into someone's story. It reminded me that so many incredible homes on Airbnb exist because everyday people choose to open their doors to travelers, even if just for part of the year. If you've ever thought about doing the same but worried it might be too much to juggle, Airbnb's Co Host Network can help. With Airbnb's Co Host Network, you can hire a quality local co host to take care of your home and guests while you're away. Co hosts can take care of guest communication, design and styling, and on site support so you have the freedom to share your space and earn some extra income without the extra workload. Interested in hosting but need support? Find a co host@airbnb.com host.
- [23:45]
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- [24:15]
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- [24:36]
Jen Kim
Okay, I have to tell you, I was just looking on ebay, where I go for all kinds of things I love. And there it was, that hologram trading card.
- [24:43]
Farnoosh Torabi (Podcast Intro)
One of the rarest.
- [24:44]
Jen Kim
The last one I needed for my set. Shiny like the designer handbag of my dreams. One of a kind. Ebay had it. And now everyone's asking, ooh, where'd you.
- [24:54]
Thumbtack Advertiser
Get your windshield wipers? Ebay has all the parts that fit my car. No more annoying, just beautiful.
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Jen Kim
Millions of finds, each with a story. EBay. Things people love.
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Farnoosh Torabi (Interviewer)
Do you think that you are born a visionizer or a strategizer or a mobilizer? Do you think that if you realize, oh, I'm actually the strategizer here, I'd prefer to be in the visionizer role. Can you shift around like that? Like, what do you think about just our, you know, innate capabilities and these titles that you've designated the Ulta assessment.
- [25:38]
Jen Kim
So I want to say that, for example, a lot of great CEOs are not V's at all. So that's what I want to really emphasize is that the V, the S and the M are not about title. They are about energetic skills, meaning everyone has ideas. We're just not all motivated completely by our ideas, if that makes sense. So not everybody's motivated by our own ideas. Some of us are motivated by other people's ideas. That's my point, is that the V's are the energy of. I'm motivated by ideas. S is results. M's are about accomplishment. So when you think about, are we born that way? I would say part of it is born and then part of it is learned, right? Through different mentorship and skills that we've taken on. Because we are also motivated by things that we feel really happy that we're good at, if you will. Right. And for me, I feel like I was truly born in S. Like, I can say that I think as a little girl, I was always questioning things and looking for a different solution. And Ss are very much like that. Ems don't question a lot in general, they're more like, we just want to get it done, and we want to get it done well. We want to feel good that it got done well. And bees are just like, they'll talk about anything. Right. It's like galactic ideas. And for me, I was that little girl who loved galactic ideas, but I was way more interested in how it worked. I wanted to understand how the sausage was made and if we could make the sausage made better. And that's a very S energy that I have. And then I applied that energy inside of my corporate career and then in my business, and it's definitely served me well. And I think when people ask me, like, oh, like, how do you get things done so fast? Or I'm like, they're actually not fast. It looks fast to you. It's just that I'm in my. What I call unicorn energy. I'm in this energy of really focusing on. I'm really good at the S, and I'm really good at turning the idea. The V in me is really good at seeing the future and strategizing how to get there. That's why I'm an sv. But when you think about, like, other people that we know, I'll give you an example. I talk about Martha Stewart in the book and how she's actually an M. I'm like, oh, she's totally an M. Because an M is focused on details, accomplishment, and demonstration that they are mobilizer. Just mobilizer.
- [28:10]
Farnoosh Torabi (Interviewer)
Reiterate.
- [28:10]
Jen Kim
Yeah. Mm. So I'm like, the way Martha came on up and became Martha Stewart is she wanted to change the way people looked at homemaking. Right. She wanted to bring an elegance to it. So she basically showed you how to do that. And so M mobilizers are doers first. They want to show you how it's done. They want to demonstrate how it's done. So I've categorized her as an mv. So she's a mobilizing visionizer. So she had a vision to change homemaking and how it was seen and then. But she did it through doing. And so I tell people, like, it's not about. That's why I think the word vision visionary is a very dangerous word because it's put on a pedestal instead of asking, like, what kind of leader are you? That's why it's called the leadership types. Like, Martha Stewart is a mobilizing visionizer. She does things. And she will tell you to this day, if anybody has watched the Netflix special or her documentary on her, she talks about like, she still gets up at 5am every single day. She's ritualized. She wakes up, she meets with her farm staff every freaking morning like clockwork. Tells them how she wants the entire farm to be tended every day. She has a game plan, then she goes. She does her pilates, she drinks her green juice, she gets ready, and then she drives into Manhattan. Then she meets with her production team and her marketing team and she has a game plan for them. And so she is very detailed. That's an M energy. That's mobilizing.
- [29:49]
Farnoosh Torabi (Interviewer)
Or maybe w. Workhorse.
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Jen Kim
Right, Right, exactly.
- [29:53]
Farnoosh Torabi (Interviewer)
They don't make them like that anymore. Well, here's my question. So Martha is. Is remarkable. And her stamina and her fortitude and in her 80s now, it's just so inspiring. I don't know who's the next Martha in the sense of who's that next workhorse? Like, do you see the same work ethic out there, the same sort of mobilizing with all the technology that we have, which is these are wonderful tools on the one hand, they also don't require, in some ways, the same sort of grit. What do you think about the future in terms of AI and technology and even social media and how it's going to impact strategizing, mobilizing, visionizing?
- [30:41]
Jen Kim
Well, okay, so first I want to say about Martha, I don't think she's a workhorse. I think she's a unicorn. And there are like, I. I like to kind of categorize the kind of humans, right? It's kind of like there's jackasses, there's donkeys, there's workhorses, and then there's unicorns. And actually, donkeys are not bad, by the way. Donkeys are beasts of burden. They are great laborers. We need that donkey, like, energy. I know it sounds kind of weird to say that out loud, but it's just actually true. Like, they are people who really help us get over the finish line. Workhorses are the people who get burnt out. This is the issue. Okay? Workhorses are. Let's burn, let's burn, let's burn. And I would argue that Martha, she's not burnt out because she's truly in her highest energy, which is unicorn energy of an MV as a mobilizing visionizer. Right. So when you ask, I'm going to connect the dot to what you just asked about technology. And that piece is that if you think about even people who create online or create on social media. Right. It takes a lot of work to be a content creator. The amount of planning and lighting and it's a production. And the people who you admire who are doing stuff like that actually are most likely MVs, like Martha. They are people who have find joy and energy in creation. That's the end showing it off. Now, when we think about technology, right, this is where I go. It's so great to actually really embody the unicorn energy that you are. Because at the end of the day, technology, AI, automation, outsourcing, right, they are the innovations of unicorns. That's what they are. They were innovated by humans. So that's why this book is so important right now and in the future, because right now humans don't know where they belong. What is work going to look like? All these questions that we have and I'm like, actually, if you actually embody your unicorn self fully, work will always be available to you because you're gonna find you like, let's say like Martha's next step. If she wanted to, she could have shut down everything else and she could just be an online influencer because it's just a different medium for her ability to demonstrate. And so it's really about, like, let's say I'm an sv. Like, I am an sv, right? So when I look at the future of work and the future of like, how do I contribute to work? Actually, I think it's the books that I'm going to Write the next 10 years about how actually how humans are really how brands become great. Like, if AI takes over, no one will care about brands anymore. So instead my whole thesis here, and based on all the case studies and proof in the world that how I saw the framework of how this actually worked and developed it and talk about in my book, is that when humans start to understand their own leadership type and then apply that to the work that they do, they'll start to actually even probably partner more with other humans to create the next big thing we want to solve. Whether it's we want to solve poverty or we want to solve whatever. If you look at the people who are running the world right now, right, if people have a problem with that, I will say we need more of the other unicorns to like embody this energy so that you build something that counters that we need unicorns to rally more analog play and being outside. When you ask, like, how do we get people to like, think like that, like Martha, I'm like, actually we just need to get people to create ideas that make people want to stay outside too, that they want to touch grass that they want to be more involved with their kids, that they want to raise humans that are less dependent on Google for their answers and instead asking themselves a little bit more. And so but in order for us to be that, we have to get out of the noise of AI. And when I say AI, not as an enemy. Right. I'm with you. Like they're really good tools, but not defaulting our human innovation. That innovation is human, it is actually not technology. And so we get to change the game if we want to. We get to create balance again if we want to. And that's what this book is trying to achieve as well.
- [35:10]
Farnoosh Torabi (Interviewer)
I'm so excited for this book. And as we finish the interview, I want to end on your hope for this book, which is that it's not going to kind of get pigeonholed in women's leadership. Although we gave two case studies here of Martha Stewart and, and the moderna head of hr. But you want this to sit next to books like Tipping Point and the Four Hour Work Week. Why do you want to have that emphasized?
- [35:40]
Jen Kim
Well, I think it's because, you know, whether we like it or not, whoever's listening to this interview right now, we default. Just like a lot of us are defaulting to AI and Google for answers, we default to men's voices in general as kind of like this leadership conversation. And I don't think this is a gendered conversation at all is really my point. But we find that when you think about the New York Times bestselling books, most business books that get that designation are written by men. In fact, I can't think of A1, a business book written by a woman except for Sally Hogsheads. Fascinating that I personally know of that I also recommend to people. And I know that that's not indicative of the thought, leadership and skillset of non male authors who write mainstream thought that needs to be, you know, shared widely. Including you Farnoosh, obviously when it comes to money, finance and also leadership. I felt so like it was so important for this book, this idea to be shared widely because again, it's not a gendered conversation. But I will say I think if more women read this too, they would find their own courage to show their unicorn more on bookshelves, on stages, in corporate, in starting their own business and starting their own podcast. Because it's about a diversity of voices and perspectives that we need. Not just one voice, one gender. And so we wouldn't even be having this conversation if I was a man. If I was a man and I wrote this book, I think that the concepts in this book would really get shared very widely. And so what I'm hoping by naming it out loud and by what was written in the book that that will happen no matter what. But that's why it's so important to me.
- [37:41]
Farnoosh Torabi (Interviewer)
Jen Kim, thank you so much. The book is called unicorn the 9 Leadership Types you, Need to Launch youh Big Ideas with Speed and Success. Thank you.
- [37:53]
Jen Kim
Thank you.
- [37:56]
Farnoosh Torabi
Thanks so much to Jen Kim for joining us. Her book again is called Unicorn the 9 Leadership Types you, Need to Launch youh Big Ideas with Speed and Success. I hope your day is so money.
- [38:21]
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