Podcast Summary: So Money with Farnoosh Torabi

Episode 1919: What the Data Proves About Marriage, Motherhood, and Having It All – A Conversation with Wharton Professor Dr. Corinne Low
Date: December 17, 2025
Host: Farnoosh Torabi
Guest: Dr. Corinne Low, Associate Professor at Wharton, author of "Having It: What Data Tells Us About Women's Lives and Getting the Most out of Yours"

Overview

This episode explores the realities behind the idea of "having it all" for modern women, using data-driven research and personal experiences. Dr. Corinne Low shares insights from her new book, revealing why women are more exhausted than ever despite gains in education and workforce participation. The conversation covers persistent gender imbalances at home, the undervaluing of women's time, what same-sex couples can teach about partnership, and actionable advice for navigating career, parenting, and household labor.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Persistent Myth of “Having It All”

[07:15]

• The concept that women can "have it all" is recognized as a myth, but Dr. Low’s work uses data to explore what’s really at play.
• Dr. Corinne Low: “What we are trying to do right now as working women, especially as working moms, is uniquely challenging from a time perspective.”

2. The Gender Divide in Household Labor: Then & Now

[08:00 – 12:22]

• Despite women’s expanded roles in the workforce, household expectations for men haven't changed much since the 1970s.
• Men’s involvement in the “cooking and cleaning” category – used as a proxy for the invisible “mental load” – is stagnant, regardless of earnings.
• Women breadwinners don’t receive proportional relief at home; even when earning more, they still shoulder a majority of domestic work.

Quote (Dr. Corinne Low, 10:01):
"Even when she's the female breadwinner, she still does twice as much cooking and cleaning. So she doesn't get the relief that her male colleagues get because they have that help at home."

• Both parents now give more time to children, widening—not narrowing—the gender gap in household labor.

3. Valuing Women’s Time—and Outsourcing Myths

[12:22 – 14:52]

• Society sees paying for help with “male-coded” tasks (oil changes, gutter cleaning) as normal, but “female-coded” chores as luxuries.
• The mindset that outsourcing domestic work is wasteful or “not what we do” persists, even among families who routinely outsource other services.

Quote (Dr. Corinne Low, 13:01):
"We don't hire our husbands to change the oil. And yet we hire ourselves for all of those female-coded domestic tasks."

4. Actionable Advice for Women: Stop “Leaning In,” Start “Leveling Up”

[14:52 – 19:44]

• The book provides “permission slips” for women: say no to unnecessary tasks, set boundaries, and negotiate with partners.
• Critical of expecting women to fix systemic issues alone, but empowers them to make changes that work in real life.
• Women often “give away, piece by piece, those things that we need to be okay until we've, like, forgotten—we’re like the giving tree. Right? We end up as that empty stump. And it... that just is not how we should be living.” (Dr. Corinne Low, 18:40)

5. Personal Story: Gender, Partnership, and Reimagining Equality

[20:18 – 26:45]

• Dr. Low’s personal transition—from a heterosexual marriage to marrying a woman—became media fodder but offers important takeaways.
• In same-sex relationships, division of labor is more aligned with earnings and needs, not gender.
• “Equality no longer had to be negotiated in. It could be designed.”
• Lesson for everyone: establish household roles by strengths, preferences, and necessity, not default gender roles.

Quote (Dr. Corinne Low, 26:45):
"You get rid of the assumption, you get rid of gender as one of the structures that makes those decisions for you... It's still something to navigate... but it's not because of my gender. That is a huge help."

6. Introducing Evidence-Based and Nourishing Division of Labor

[26:45 – 33:07]

• Proposes going “beyond just fair” to focus on divisions that are evidence-based, nourishing, and sustainable.
• Outsourcing key household roles is rational, not selfish or lazy, and should be normalized both for women and men.
• Partners need to genuinely “own” their share (not just execute delegated tasks).
• Dr. Low suggests using the “promotion” metaphor:

  “I don’t need a low-level junior employee to delegate to. Okay, so you are getting a promotion. You're moving up to senior management.” (33:07)

7. On Timing Motherhood and Career Investments

[34:33 – 38:07]

• No universally optimal time for parenthood – it’s a deeply personal and often unpredictable decision.
• Her key metaphor: your career is a “machine that converts time into money”—the more you invest pre-kids, the better your post-kid returns.
• Freezing eggs or embryos is a practical option for some, offering “option value.”
• Career setbacks post-parenthood aren’t penalties, but reallocations of time toward new priorities.

8. Future of Women’s Labor: Technology, AI, and Economic Shifts

[38:48 – 41:06]

• The kind of domestic and cognitive work overwhelmingly done by women is among the hardest to automate.

“As much as people devalue the work that women do, it’s really hard to replace it with AI... You still need that kind of senior management level.”

• Economic shifts (including AI displacing male labor) will make women’s earnings ever more essential.
• Men must adapt new skills beyond breadwinning to remain full partners.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Same-Sex Partnerships Providing a Blueprint:

  “I would love to be able to see people introduce some of the elements of having a same-sex relationship within their heterosexual marriages... We shouldn’t be letting gender roles make these decisions.”
  – Dr. Corinne Low, [29:55]

• On Guilt and Self-Imposed Standards:

  “We feel so much guilt about the bedtime, about being able to chaperone the field trip, about making something home baked. And so sometimes... what we need from our male partner is one, support in setting and holding our own boundaries...”
  – Dr. Corinne Low, [30:31]

• Advice for Young Women on Careers:

  “Think about the skills that are durable and transferable to different industries... These are skills that are very difficult to replace with AI and they’re transferable to a lot of different industries.”
  – Dr. Corinne Low, [41:07]

• On Hope for the Future:

  “Marriage and partnership is so important to men, so they’re going to have to figure out that they need to step up if they want to keep getting married and having children.”
  – Dr. Corinne Low, [43:21]

Key Timestamps

• 02:29 – Gender roles driving household labor division and tenure track inequality
• 07:15 – Debunking the "having it all" myth with data
• 10:01 – Despite increased involvement, women still carry the mental load
• 12:30 – Outsourcing and the undervaluing of women’s time
• 14:52 – Leveling up, setting boundaries, and challenging guilt
• 20:18 – Dr. Low’s personal experience with gender and equality post-divorce
• 26:45 – Evidence-based, nourishing, and sustainable division of labor
• 33:07 – “Promotion” metaphor for partners truly taking ownership
• 34:33 – Navigating timing for motherhood and career
• 38:48 – The irreplaceable nature of women’s labor in the face of AI and tech
• 41:07 – Future-proofing careers and partnership skills

Tone and Language

The conversation is frank, research-backed, and empathetic—a blend of economic objectivity and practical, lived experience. Farnoosh and Dr. Low balance data-driven analysis with compassion, often sharing personal anecdotes and real-life applications, and offer reassurance alongside clear-eyed challenges to the status quo.

Conclusion

This episode provides a nuanced analysis of why women’s lives remain so “tired” despite social progress, and what both individuals and couples can do to create more equitable, fulfilling lives. Dr. Corinne Low’s combination of rigorous data and personal transformation challenges listeners to rethink how we divide labor, value time, and define equality in modern partnerships—reminding us that the most important changes start by “interrogating the defaults” in our own homes.

Book Featured:
Having It: What Data Tells Us About Women’s Lives and Getting the Most out of Yours by Dr. Corinne Low

For More:
Visit Dr. Low’s book page and listen to the full episode for deeper dives into her research and recommendations.