1942: How to Use Your Money to Redefine Wealth Around Time, Choice and Happiness

Summary

So Money with Farnoosh Torabi

Episode 1942: How to Use Your Money to Redefine Wealth Around Time, Choice and Happiness
Date: February 9, 2026
Guest: Andy Hill, Award-Winning Family Finance Coach and Author of Own Your Time

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Farnoosh Torabi and guest Andy Hill challenge traditional views of wealth, arguing it isn't just about building a bigger net worth, but about using financial resources to reclaim time, create choice, and cultivate happiness—for yourself and your family. Hill shares his family's journey from financial stress to time freedom, outlines steps toward "coast financial independence," and offers strategies for making time, not money, the centerpiece of a life well-lived.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Redefining Wealth: From Money to Time and Happiness

• Thesis of the Episode:
  • Money is a tool, not the goal; the ultimate aim is to use money to buy back your time, exercise choice, and intentionally design a joyful life for you and your family.
  • "True wealth isn't just about building a bigger net worth. It's about using your money intentionally to design a life with more freedom, flexibility and family time." (Farnoosh Torabi, 04:40)
• Breaking Free from the Wealth Trap:
  • The “more money equals more happiness” trap can limit us from considering what we truly want out of life.
  • Taking a step back and asking: "What do I want to do with this wealth? What do I want to do with my time?" (Andy Hill, 07:00)

Personal Journey: Andy Hill’s Path to Time Freedom

• Hill describes moving from a negative net worth in his late twenties (after overspending on lifestyle upgrades) to eventually prioritizing time with family over career and status.
  • "Just because we were making six figures did not mean we were rich. We actually had a negative net worth. And this was a light bulb moment for me." (Andy Hill, 10:40)
• The catalyst was the birth of Hill's daughter, motivating him and his wife to set clear goals around spending more time as a family.

The Family Factor: Coordinating Values and Goals

• Families present unique complexities & opportunities; aligning your goals with loved ones enhances happiness and increases the likelihood of success.
  • "It's great to support your goals... but if there are other people in your life that you care about, it is equally, if not more, fun to help them achieve their goals as well." (Andy Hill, 12:43)
• Communication and joint goal-setting with a partner (even compromise) are essential, as is intentionally making space in your life for what matters.

What Does "Owning Your Time" Look Like?

• Less about filling your calendar, more about creating margin, space and meaningful freedom.
• Hill explores the "coast FIRE" (Financial Independence, Retire Early) concept: Get investments to a point where they can grow on their own, allowing for part-time work and flexibility long before traditional retirement.
  • "Three day work week is really what we're shooting for... and try to have this four day weekend as something that I hold sacred." (Andy Hill, 17:56)

Coast FIRE: A Practical Path for Families

• Coast FIRE: Invest enough early that you can ease up later and let compounding work, without continually maxing out retirement accounts.
• This allowed Andy and his wife to both downshift to part-time work and reclaim joy, health, and connection.
• Recognizes "the only constant in life is change" and the importance of regular check-ins as family needs shift. (Andy Hill, 20:26)

Reclaiming Fun and Joy

• Farnoosh and Andy lament how “fun” is often deprioritized as something only earned after all the “work” is done.
  • "You can have fun once you do all your work—but, like, when is the work ever done?" (Farnoosh Torabi, 21:02)
• Story: Andy and his wife take a hip-hop dance class for laughs and connection—evidence that “opening up your calendar” leads to more meaningful enjoyment. (21:15 to 22:08)

Financial Backbone: The Tactical Steps

• Hill details ten financial steps in his book, which include mindset shifts and practical strategies:
  • Eliminating debt
  • Growing the gap between income and expenses
  • Investing early and consistently
  • Building an emergency fund and insurance safety net
  • Exploring Coast FIRE
• "This is a process... This took us from that negative $50,000... all the way to where we are today. That was about 15 years... We've been experimenting with part time work for four or five years now." (Andy Hill, 27:21 - 30:18)

Time Value within Relationships

• Societal roles can make us undervalue non-monetary contributions; Andy offers a strong challenge:
  • "I would challenge the high income earner to say, if you really love your spouse and you want to have a fair and equitable relationship, I challenge you to look at all of the other non-numeric things that your spouse is doing to contribute to your relationship." (Andy Hill, 32:10)
• Stay-at-home parents provide incredible (albeit often invisible) value that should be respected when leveling decisions about time.

Putting It Into Practice: Negotiating and Creating Flexibility at Work

• Strategies for employees (not just entrepreneurs) include:
  • Having open conversations with employers about reduced hours, especially if you're a high performer and valued team member.
  • Networking internally to find models of flexible work.
  • Exploring freelancing or consulting as a next step if a current employer won’t flex.
  • "Start with the easiest opportunity where they're already paying you money... maybe go to a three day workweek there. If that doesn't work, jump to another place or freelance." (Andy Hill, 35:03 - 37:51)

Optionality & Agency: Laying the Groundwork Early

• Plant seeds for more control: diversify income streams (i.e., side hustles), build a cash reserve (“FU money”) for true flexibility, and choose supportive partners.
• "Owning your time… you want to be able to own choice and to feel like you can create your own options as well. And that takes money." (Farnoosh Torabi, 41:08)

Teaching the Next Generation

• Instill autonomy, responsibility, and generosity in kids early by putting money in their hands for them to experiment, make mistakes, and learn.
  • Hill family’s model: 60% smart spending, 20% investing, 10% saving, 10% giving.
  • "Giving and service to others is a pathway to true happiness." (Andy Hill, 45:47)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Money as a Resource for Life Design:

  "Unless we break free from the more wealth will provide happiness trap, I don't think we can actually take that inflection point to say, what do I want to do with this wealth? What do I want to do with my time?"
  (Andy Hill, 07:00)

• On Owning Your Time:

  "We derive a sense of self-worth from busyness, and that can be a trap... What is owning your time? How does that look?"
  (Farnoosh Torabi, 15:02)

• On Approaching Employers:

  "I've spoken to many families who've approached their employer... 'I love what I'm doing here, but I have obligations. Is there a world where I could do this four days a week?'"
  (Andy Hill, 35:03)

• On Parenting and Teaching About Money:

  "We'd much rather them make mistakes with $20 at 5 years old, than $20,000 at 25 years old."
  (Andy Hill, 43:10)

• On Giving Yourself Permission for Joy:

  "Fun has never been sold to me as a permission. Oh, you can have fun once you do all your work. But, like, when is the work ever done?"
  (Farnoosh Torabi, 21:02)

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Important Timestamps

• 03:08-04:40 – Farnoosh introduces Andy Hill, his new book, and lays out the premise: redefining wealth around time, choice, and happiness
• 07:00 – Andy summarizes the “use money to build your ideal life” thesis
• 10:40-11:57 – Andy’s personal “aha” moment of realizing a six-figure salary did not bring true wealth
• 12:43-14:43 – The unique challenge and reward of applying these ideas within families
• 15:23-18:35 – "Owning your time" and finding a "middle way" (the coast FIRE approach)
• 20:00-22:08 – Adapting time use as kids grow and making space for joy and fun
• 27:21-30:18 – The ten steps, the realistic time frames, and income transparency
• 32:10-34:29 – Time value in relationships; the challenge to appreciate non-monetary contributions
• 35:03-37:51 – Practical ways to negotiate or arrange part-time or flexible work
• 43:10-46:18 – Teaching kids about money through hands-on autonomy and the 60/20/10/10 approach

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Takeaways and Actionable Strategies

• Define What Matters: Get clear on values, desired experiences, and family priorities before optimizing money.
• Collaborate With Family: Don’t go it alone or take goals for granted—make intentional plans together.
• Experiment to Find Your Middle Ground: Extremes are unsustainable. A hybrid or “coast FIRE” approach provides balance.
• Audit and Respect Time for All Members: Time is valuable for all partners, regardless of income contribution.
• Advocate for Yourself at Work: High performers can and should ask for flexibility; look for models and allies.
• Start Early with Kids: Let children manage real money to learn and build positive lifelong habits.
• Make Time for Fun: Don’t wait for permission; joy is a key part of a wealthy life.

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Resources Mentioned

• Book: Andy Hill, Own Your Time: 10 Financial Steps to Put Your Family First and Escape the Corporate Grind
• Podcast: Marriage, Kids and Money

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Transcript

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[Farnoosh Torabi]

So money episode 1942 how to use youe Money to Redefine Wealth Around Time, Choice and Happiness.

[Andy Hill]

You're listening to so Money with award winning money guru Farnoosh Torabi. Each day get a 30 minute dose of financial inspiration from the world's top business minds, authors, influencers and from Farnoosh herself. Looking for ways to save on gas or double your double coupons. Sorry, you're in the wrong place. Seeking profound ways to live a richer, happier life. Welcome to SO Money. I think a lot of us think that money can solve a lot of our problems. And don't get me wrong, it could definitely help with a lot of those problems. But the more wealth we build, the more choice we also have as well. And we have to make a choice to say, how do we want to spend our week? What is our ideal week look like? What is the best version of my life? And how can I utilize these awesome resources that I've built, my monetary wealth to construct the life that I've always wanted? And unless we break free from the more wealth will provide happiness trap, I don't think we can actually take that inflection point to say what do I want to do with this wealth? What do I want to do with my time? And structured in a way that brings my personal happiness, that also brings my family happiness, that also brings progress in my community or my culture, whatever I deem as my values. I need to utilize those two resources, my money and my time to create the life I've always wanted.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Welcome back to so Money everybody. I'm Farnoosh Tarabi. Hope you enjoyed the Super Bowl. And that bad bunny, that was just pure joy, wasn't it? I mean, I didn't understand it, but I loved it. I was dancing, we were having fun. Which brings me to today's episode. We talk a little bit about the importance of bringing back joy into your life intentionally and designing the life that you want. We work so hard to make that dollar and what is it for Right. Is it just to like put it in the bank and pay our bills? Well, obviously, yes, we have to do those things, but at some point, wouldn't it be nice to actually be intentional about the money that we make and put it to not just, but to play and to fun and to uplifting our lives and doing the things that we actually want, not just for ourselves, but for our families? What if the real goal of money isn't just to get richer, but to get your time back? My guest today has some answers. Andy Hill. He's an award winning family finance coach and the creator of Marriage, Kids and Money. And he says true wealth isn't just about building a bigger net worth. It's about using your money intentionally to design a life with more freedom, flexibility and family time. In his new book, Own youn Time, Andy lays out practical financial steps to help families move from burnout and busyness toward what he calls time freedom, including the path to part time work, coast financial independence, and a life built around choice instead of obligation. That coast financial independence, by the way, very, very interesting to me. I'm definitely looking into that this year. Today though, we're talking about how to actually do this. From paying off your debts to investing strategically renegotiating, reshaping your family priorities and redefining what wealth really means to you. Here's Andy Hill. Andy Hill, welcome back to so Money.

[Andy Hill]

Thank you so much Varnish. I appreciate it.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Excited to share with everybody you have a new book out in the world. Own youn Time is the title as opposed to Own youn Money. And I think there's a story here. I think you have an interesting thesis with this book which is that time is very valuable and we should treat it maybe like money. Maybe. Tell me a little bit about the genesis of Own youn Time.

[Andy Hill]

Yeah, I would say to your point there, I think a lot of us think that money can solve a lot of our problems. And don't get me wrong, it could definitely help with a lot of those problems. But the more wealth we build, the more choice we also have as well. And we have to make a choice to say, how do we want to spend our week? What does our ideal week look like? What is the best version of my life and how can I utilize these awesome resources that I've built, my monetary wealth to construct the life that I've always wanted. Unless we break free from the more wealth will provide happiness trap, I don't think we can actually take that inflection point to say, what do I want to do with this wealth? What do I want to do with my time? And structure it in a way that brings my personal happiness, that also brings my family happiness, that also brings progress in my community or my culture, Whatever I deem as my values. I need to utilize those two resources, my money and my time, to create the life I've always wanted.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Hold on to that paradigm, and I want to revisit the questions we need to ask ourselves to distill this. I think this is so hard. I'm really glad that you're focusing on this because a lot of times we just jump over it. We go right to the budget, we go right to the getting out, which is important. But you need to know where you want your life to go. And of course, the best plans were made to be broken. Whatever the expression is, we make a plan, God laughs. But still, like, you do have a lot of agency and I love how your book is encouraging us to step up in that way. But again, a personal story here. I want to understand how you, Andy Hill, fumbled maybe along the way, before you got to this aha moment about, hey, you know what? I really need to get very clear on what I want, my values, how I want to spend my time before I start to plug in the dollars and the cents. Were you, like a lot of us, just hamster on a wheel doing what you thought you were supposed to be doing, and then you hit a wall. Like, I feel like we've all been there. Some of us are still there. Tell us about your journey.

[Andy Hill]

Absolutely. I would say our journey started when we got married and it was a really fun moment. We got married, we doubled our income. I was making like $60,000. She was making 70. I'm like, Whoa, this is awesome. We've got a six figure income. We're having a lot of fun. And we did have a lot of fun. We spent all that money. We spent a little bit more than the money we had for things, call it the trappings of life. I thought I needed to get that master's degree in order to have wealth built. And that helped me to gather some student loans. We got the luxury car that made us feel really good driving that around. So we got some debt with that as we started to enjoy our money and spend a little bit more than we had. We also learned that we were going to be parents through after we got married. And something happened in my brain where this light switch flipped and it said, okay, you're not just living for today. You're not just having fun. You're not just taking care of yourself. You're bringing a human into the world, man. What are you going to do to give her the best life possible? And for me, it went to finances. I was interested in reading some books around that time, listening to some voices like Suze Orman talk about how am I doing on her channel and doing the net worth statements and things like that. Given that we had $130,000 income, I'm like, surely we're rich. We just got to keep moving this forward. It wasn't until I started to write down what our net worth was after watching one of those Suzy shows saying net worth, I don't really know what that means. Let me figure it out.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Okay.

[Andy Hill]

Assets on one side, liabilities on the other. We started to total this up and we realized we had a negative $50,000 net worth. We weren't rich. Just because we were making six figures did not mean we were rich. We actually had a negative net worth. And this was a light bulb moment for me being like, okay, you're living for today. That's great. It's awesome. You're in your late 20s, you're making some cool memories with your wife. But what do we want out of this life? What do we want to do? What do we want to do for our daughter? We want to give her a great life. That's fantastic. As part of my wife's goals at the time she was saying, I'm not really into this corporate career. I'm in, I'm pregnant. I would love to spend some time with this beautiful human that I'm creating. What could I do to move to part time work eventually full time, stay at home mom. And so with that collaboration, I'm like, okay, I'm numbers focused and you are. You've got a time specific goal that we can work behind. So we got together, we made some plans, we started to get together on a monthly basis for our budget party where we'd look over the numbers, how much is coming in, how much is going out. And we started to get excited about the steps that we could take to create more time freedom in our lives so that we could not just say that we're family, a family man and a family woman actually have the time to do that. So that's where we got excited.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

And your book is really speaking to families, which take on all shapes and sizes these days. But what do you think is special about that family dynamic as opposed to speaking to an individual? Right. I mean, clearly you have dependence, you have more you, maybe you have more than one income, which can be exciting. And also, let's do that net worth calculation, because maybe you're not as rich as you think. What is it that you want families to really understand about this idea of valuing your time? It's especially difficult when you've got all of this. All this pressure of childcare and your partner's needs and your needs. And then maybe you have aging parents, too. Like, it's not just your time anymore, it's all the people's time.

[Andy Hill]

Absolutely. And I think if we individuals say, hey, there are more people in our lives than just me. And as you said, family can mean so many things, right? So it's great to take care of yourself, and it's great to support your goals and help you live the life you've always wanted. But if there are other people in your life that you care about, it is equally, if not more fun to help them achieve their goals as well. So for me and my wife, that's the difference, I think, between being single and married up or partnered up is that, yes, it's important to dream and think about the best life you want for yourself, but then also ask that of your partner being like, what does a dream life look for you? And then after learning those cool things, how can we create these joint goals together where we're supporting each other on this mission? Because if you're supporting your spouse and your spouse is supporting you, that is the best way to achieve goals. When you have a partner to help you achieve big things, it becomes so much easier than doing it alone. And so if that involves your parents or your children too, that makes it even more fun to do this as a big unit and move forward. So I've found that. And in the times where I've become maybe a little more selfish, I think a little internally and just say, okay, this is what I want. And she's getting in the way of that. And when I'm not feeling so selfish, I say, okay, what can I do to help her also achieve her goals and me achieve our goals? What's that happy compromise that we can find in our relationship? And I've found when I'm at my best, it's when I'm making time for those discussions. And when I'm at my worst is when I have a stretched week where I do not have time and margin to think. And I think impulsively and I think selfishly. So by creating that margin in my week, I can be the husband that I've always wanted to be. I Can be the father that I've always wanted to be, the son, the community member, the leader that I want to be.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Paint the picture for us. What is the goal here? What is a sign that maybe you are truly owning your time? I often say it's when you have less on your calendar, actually, not more. We often find our sense of. We derive a sense of self worth from busyness.

[Andy Hill]

Yeah.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

And that can be a trap. And we don't appreciate too often when our calendars are clear as a signal that maybe we are doing some things right. So paint the picture for us. What is owning your time? How does that look? How does that feel? What does it actually look like on a calendar on a day to day basis? On a month to month basis?

[Andy Hill]

Yeah. I like to look at extremes and then find the middle way, the happy middle. So for me, actually the last time we had a discussion, Farnoosh, I was at one of my extremes. I believe I had discussed with you the importance of seeking out marriage counseling based on the situation we are in. We are probably the most stretched for time around that 2018, 2019 timeframe that we talked last time. That was when both my wife and I were working in our traditional roles. I was the corporate event marketing guy that was on the road that was trying to earn as much as possible and she was the traditional stay at home mom. Both of these were maximized roles in our traditional culture and we were both stressed out. On top of that, we're doing the kid activities. We're trying to be there for all of the things at school. We want to make sure that they're not eating poor food. It's, oh my God, your brain just explodes. And so what you're craving at that moment is space, time, margin, ability to think a little bit. So that was a maximized size for me where I did not like that. On the opposite end, I was viewing this fire movement or the financial independence movement as my savior of saying, okay, wouldn't it be great if I didn't have to work at all and I had all of the time freedom and that's the way out. So my idea at that time was like, okay, just save as much as possible. 50% save, maybe even more. What do you think of that, honey? Oh my gosh, she does not like that. Let's go to marriage counseling to figure this out. So those were the two extremes of too much stuff and then zero stuff. So what we found out through some conversations through marriage counseling was there is a middle way. We just have to design it. Ourselves and for us as of late, to answer your question in a long winded way, we found that hitting this coast fire route, which is essentially maximizing your investments to a point where you can let your investments grow through time and compound interest and eventually get you to that happy place in retirement. And then checking that box and then just saying, hey, now that we've done that and we don't have any debt and we don't have a mortgage, could we both just work part time? And then that would allow us to have more time, freedom for the things that we care about. Our relationship, our health, time with our children, time for our aging parents. And we've been experimenting with that lifestyle for the past four years. And it has not only been the best thing for us individually, but it's been the best thing for our marriage. We have gotten along so well over the past few years and just fallen back in love with the way we were when we met in our mid-20s and our late 20s when we were just having a great time and laughing together. So it's been a fantastic middle ground. Three day work week is really what we're shooting for. I work Tuesday through Thursdays and try to have this four day weekend as something that I hold sacred. And then she works Tuesday, Thursday, Friday at an esthetician's office. I'm sorry, at a dermatologist's office. She went back to school to become an esthetician after the corporate grind just grinded her too much and she's like, forget it. I'm going back to trade school and I want to do something with my hands. I'm very interested in aesthetics. And now she does that three days a week.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Brilliant. I'm actually really interested in this coast fire. I might do a whole other episode on it. Personally driven, because I'm at an age too where I have been consistently investing like a good soldier in my retirement accounts, fully maxing them out for, gosh, now 15 years. And I'm wondering, can I take a break and maybe move that money that I was putting towards the stocks and bonds to, I don't know, just like an emergency account, like a savings account. I don't even need to buy anything with it just to buy myself some more peace. And to your point, time too, because you work to make money and that takes time. And if it's okay, this is $50,000 that I'm not investing this year. Like, how many projects is that? How much is that? Is that one free day a week to not work? Probably. And I love that I love to be like that. You make it tangible like that to think about making these shifts. And it sounds too, that in your life time that there are these moments that really are important to check in because how you plan and design your schedule, your time today will shift. Like when your kids get older and they're out of the. They're out of the nest, it's probably time to rethink that ownership of time. Right? That calculation changes.

[Andy Hill]

Absolutely. Yeah. And I think that for a long period of time, I said I want to free up my time so that I can be a present father and be there for the important things and do individual one on one time with my kids. And then things change. My daughter becomes 13, 14, and she's, I love you, dad, but these friends of mine are pretty cool, and I think I'm going to spend some more time with them. Wait a second. I just opened up my whole calendar so I can be a present father. This doesn't work with my father.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Oh, my gosh, Joe.

[Andy Hill]

Life changes. The only constant in life is change, and you just have to be ready for that. But with that. Okay, where else can I lean in a little bit more? Oh, I can lean into my health. I've been definitely putting my health on the back burner. I should be exercising more. I'm a man in my mid-40s. I know that that's so important. If I want to have a long, healthy life, I can lean more into my marriage. I can spend more time with my wife and make some memories. We just goofed around. I admire the things that you've done in your life too, farnoushe, where you're like, I'm just gonna change things up and I'm gonna do stand up comedy.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Stand up comedy. That's so fun. Fun. Remember fun, Andy?

[Andy Hill]

Remember fun? Exactly.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Actually, I don't remember fun because I feel like fun has never been sold to me as a permission. Oh, you can have fun once you do all your work. But, like, when is the work ever done?

[Andy Hill]

You decide now.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Yeah.

[Andy Hill]

You say, I'm gonna do that. And so for my wife and I were like, what do we want to do this year? That's goofy. We signed up for Intro to Hip Hop class, like, three weeks ago. And we're like, wouldn't that be funny? And lo and behold, I am one of three guys in the class. It is. It's pretty funny.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Oh, you better be filming that.

[Andy Hill]

We've got that on camera.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

That's your new tough Persona. It's just exactly hip hop, hip Hop Andy.

[Andy Hill]

Yeah, we do it and we joke around and it gives us something to laugh about. We come home and we do the dance in front of my 14 year old daughter and she's that's so cringe. And that's even funnier, like the fact that we're embarrassing her. So this long winded story is like when you open up the calendar, you think back to when you were a kid and just say, what do I want my life to be like? Let's dream, let's have fun, let's goof around. And that's what life is for. It gets so serious. I know that we could use that money to say, let's make this so unserious. Let's have fun.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

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[Andy Hill]

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[Tara Davis Woodhull / Hunter Woodhull (Olympic Athletes)]

Gold medalist Tara Davis Woodhull and I'm.

[Andy Hill]

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[Tara Davis Woodhull / Hunter Woodhull (Olympic Athletes)]

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[Andy Hill]

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[Tara Davis Woodhull / Hunter Woodhull (Olympic Athletes)]

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[Andy Hill]

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[Tara Davis Woodhull / Hunter Woodhull (Olympic Athletes)]

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[Andy Hill]

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[Tara Davis Woodhull / Hunter Woodhull (Olympic Athletes)]

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[Farnoosh Torabi]

Along the way, though, you need to have a financial backbone to be able to give yourself this time Runway. So let's talk about the kind of financial things you want to have in place. I know your book goes through 10 financial steps. Some of them are more mindset driven, others are really tactical, like investing early and consistently growing that gap between income and expenses. How realistic is someone, like how realistic is it for someone to be able.

[Tara Davis Woodhull / Hunter Woodhull (Olympic Athletes)]

To own their time?

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Time in their 20s when they've got student loan debt, when they can barely make rent? Is this more of a graduated concept? Once you are doing all these things, by 40, you should hopefully be able to own your time. Or are there chances to do this in little bits and phases, even at younger stages?

[Andy Hill]

I would say that if you just graduated from college and you do want to own your time, I think it's important for you to take advantage of that probably high priced degree that you got and get some value out of that for a little while. I know that's not an exciting thing to hear, but it's true. If you owe a lot in student loans, getting those paid back, getting those paid off is going to make your life a lot easier down the road. So yeah, having that eventual debt free life, that could take some time depending on if you're doing this by yourself or with a partner. If you're able to do it with a partner, that road becomes a lot easier because you can work on it together. Having some sort of sense of security with regard to an emergency fund, your insurance, things like that, that are the ways that you can play defense. Getting rid of that debt and then protecting yourself with insurance, emergency savings, even freezing your credit if you're all done with debt, just to protect yourself on this battle that you're going to do. When you build wealth, then yeah, if you get an opportunity to invest through that corporate job you have, take advantage of that 401, match a Roth IRA, HSA, all these great things that are out there that are tax advantaged, build those up through investing until you hit that point of coast fire where you can say, okay, I did my heavy lifting, I put a bunch in there with time and compound interest at a general real rate of return, I don't know, 6% or 7%, this thing's going to grow and take care of old Andy, old Nicole, when they're in their 60s and they need that support. So you're checking boxes along the way and then you're looking at those expenses throughout the process and saying, okay, now that I've checked some of these boxes and my expenses are lower because I don't need to invest as much or I've paid off all of my debt or even my mortgage. You can look at those expenses and just say, I don't need to work as much as I used to and I can dial things back if I want to. If you like what you do and you're like, hey, I've actually built a career or a business that I love, good on you. Keep doing that. That's a blessing for you to like what you do. So utilize that extra money to maximize your life. Maybe pay for more help when it comes to family expenses and things like that. But if you want to do a combination of both, that's what my wife and I have been experimenting with. It's fantastic. You work less, you enjoy life a little bit more, and it brings that zest back into life. And so this is a process. This took us from that negative $50,000, I told you all the way to where we are today. That was about 15 years. But we've been experimenting with this part time work thing four or five years now. So if you work hard at it and you have a partner that helps you build up your income. Full transparency Everybody. During that 10 year stretch of our wealth building, we made around $180,000 a year combined. Good income, not crazy high, but not low either. But it's good for you to know as you're talking about how to do this and some transparency around the numbers.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Yeah, thank you for that. I wonder how different this is for couples with one income stream. One parent, assuming you've dependents, is not working outside of the home, not earning a paycheck. I find that so much of our, our sense of time value is derived from how much money we bring into the household, that contribution, that financial contribution. So to bring this to life a little bit more like the person who works and has the schedule and the boss and the things and the travel is my time's more valuable because I bring in the money and we have to protect my time more than someone else in the relationship who is, who has more flexibility. I suppose I'll give another example. Like I have a friend in town who doesn't make as much as her husband. And so when it comes to things like going out with her friends, she feels like she has to get permission to say, hey, can I take this night off? Let me first check in with him, make sure he doesn't have any like work appointments. And it's even gotten to the point where if there's miscommunication. She's made a plan, but then he has a conflict and it's six o' clock and she thinks she's able to go out the door. She won't. She'll cancel plans. Because I don't want to make this a gender thing. I really just want to make it more about one person makes more or all of the money and they're relationship to time is different, their time is different than their partner's. Do you run into this as you counsel people and couples and families like this idea that the money is tied to the value of your time? And how do we get around that? How do we crack that code, that false code?

[Andy Hill]

I think as humans it's easy for us to understand things that are numeric or we can say, oh, there's a number to that. But I would challenge the spouse that maybe is the higher earner versus the maybe spouse that isn't the higher earner or that maybe doesn't have an income at all. I would challenge the high income earner to say, if you really love your spouse and you want to have a fair and equitable relationship, I challenge you to look at all of the other non numeric things that your spouse is doing to contribute to your relationship. Now there have been some great studies or statistics out there that show a stay at home parent or stay at home mom, their real salary value is up in the $200,000 a year. So really, if you want to get numeric and you want to get financial about it, but do that with an empathetic heart saying, oh my gosh, if I did not have that spouse in my life, what would my life look like? I cannot imagine. Not only the love and partnership that I have with this individual, but the amount of roles that this individual is serving in our family unit. So I would challenge that individual to really look at that and empathize and say, my gosh, what are they actually doing to make our family unit sing? And hopefully with that empathy, then you can say, I need to honor that dinner date that my spouse has just as much as I need to honor an important work meeting. Because I know in the corporate world if you continue to put up boundaries of what you're going to accept, then they eventually get used to it. Of course you have to be a high performer and you have to do great at your job while you're there. But they will listen if you say, hey, I'm in family time right now. You turn off the phone, whatever you got to do, make that happen. But if you're in an environment that doesn't support that is also something to look at for the long term relationship that you have with your partner. If you want to have a great marriage, you want to have a great partnership. So these are all important. Think of those things just as much as you'd commit to an important doctor's appointment. If that's important to your spouse, then make sure you're committing to that as well.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Agree? Yeah. Great. Let's remember the stay at home parent, six figure, six figure job. Invaluable. You mentioned this three day work week and obviously that can work easier when you own your business. For those listening who have employers and they want to own their time better at work, what do you recommend? What are their conversations you can start having with your employer? Just kind of some guidance there because I think that's trickier when you have to answer to someone other than yourself.

[Andy Hill]

Absolutely. And I know you've probably come across this too. I think people see us on the microphone and they say, oh, that, that would be great. But I don't even want to own a business. I don't want to have some podcast or whatever. I just want to work less. I think the challenge of owning a business is too much for me to even want to do. And that's fine. My wife is the same way. She's, I admire you, but I don't want to do that, man. I just want to work. I want to put in my work for three days and then be done. And so what I would say is for the individual who's looking at doing this, look at where you're currently being paid money. So if you work in a corporate environment and you've built a skill set and they're paying you good money. I have spoken to many families that have approached their employer and said, hey, I love what I'm doing here. I have other interests in my life. I have other obligations. I'm a parent. I'm taking care of an aging parent. I have of xyz. Is there a world where I could do this four days a week? Is there a world where I could do this three days a week here in this corporation? Now, caveat. Do you have a good relationship with your supervisor? Are you a high performer? These things are yeses. If you do. Now, if you don't have that great relationship but you're still interested in doing it there, investigate other people who are at your corporation that are currently working part time and take them out for coffee and ask them how they did it. And what was the approach that they went about? It's almost like a little bit of investigation. How can you do this? Now if you're saying to me, okay, never at my company, if I do this, it's a death sentence, they're going to fire me, okay, that is an opportunity to look elsewhere for other employers that might pay you for your experience, skill set, because you are a winner in your industry and they would pay you and they might have opportunities for you to work part time or remote or whatever that goal that you have is. So don't be afraid to look at competitors that might allow you to do that. Again, if you say that's going to be difficult for me to do, level three of that is, could you use your skill set that you have right now to be a freelancer, to be a contractor, to be a consultant with your skill set? And the reason I'm doing this in this order is like, it's really romantic to say, hey, burn all the boats and quit and become a podcaster like Farnoosh and I, but we both know it's really hard. And it's hard for you to just exit your skill set and just say, hey, let me try to make the same amount of money that I made in my corporate world. So start with the easiest opportunity where they're already paying you money, where they appreciate you. Maybe go to a three day workweek there. If that doesn't work, jump to another place that might allow you to work part time. Or look at some individuals who work in your industry that are freelance, that are contracted or consultants, and take them out for coffee and say, how did you do that?

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Let's do it.

[Andy Hill]

I would love to learn from you so that I can do that myself, but it does take effort, effort, and it does take some consistency and persistence.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

I was at a work event last night and a woman came up to me. She actually recognized me from hosting the so Money podcast. I was all alone at this cocktail event. I was there to support my friend who had put on the event. And I was just kind of like by myself in this little corner. And this woman came out to me. She goes, oh my God, you host the so Money podcast. And I was like, yes, I love you. Thank you so much for talking to me because I don't want anybody here. And we started chatting and she's in her 30s and wants to have a child this year or start to have a child, like start to get pregnant and all that. And she said, what's your advice for me? I don't want to be, I want to have money for this. I don't know how much money. I don't know what this is like. And she lives in New York and all that. And honestly I thought about myself and what the two most important things that every family needs, especially mothers, ideally when they become parents, is in the beginning is obviously money, but also time. Right, Time. So how can you start to now not just plant seeds to save money, but also to earn more of your of control over your time. And to your point, I think your employer may be great and can give you time off, but at the end of the day having more ownership of your career, even if it's just 10%. Right. You have a 10 side hustle, but it's something that you can grow now. And she's like, you know, I have a lot of ideas. I want to, I want to start a podcast. I want to be you. And I'm like, you know what? Somewhere and potentially somewhere that's not threatening to your employer, like a newsletter, you know, something that's not putting your face in your name. Because sometimes employers get very uncomfortable with that. Obviously make sure it's okay with them. If you do want to start to become a thought leader out loud and Ted Sage and all that, which I think companies should totally support, it's like good for, it's a win for everybody. But I was like, you know what, while you're saving all your money, also think about how you can earn back some of your agency as to how you want to design your life and your time. Because when you think it's just about money, but it's really also about how you spend your days.

[Andy Hill]

Absolutely. And having especially as a young mother, I'm sure. And the stories that my wife told me about going back to work, you.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Don'T know how you're going to feel. And that's the thing is like I thought I was gonna have a really hard time going back to work and I think it would have been much harder for me if I actually had to leave the house to go to a job and not be home for eight hours, 10 hours. But because I had created a work from home situation for myself and I had a caregiver, but it was like the two of us kind of tag teaming with the baby and I felt like I had access to my kid. I couldn't, could see him all the day if I wanted to sometimes never if I didn't want to that day. But it was, I had the option and optionality I think is it's the unspoken theme here so far is like your time, owning your time. And you said choices right at the beginning, Right? That's it. At the end of the day, you want to be able to own choice and to feel like you can create your own options as well. And that takes money.

[Andy Hill]

Yeah, yeah. And I would say outside of the side hustle, which I think is fantastic because you want to have some sort of income stream that you can build and grow and hopefully it can grow with you getting that support from her spouse and saying, here's what I dream about, here's what I desire, here's what a happy life looks like for me. Because when you have a partner that says, yeah, let's figure that out together, oh man, that's like a relief for you. You can say, I can do this. And then the third thing on top of a supportive partner and a side hustle that you're building is a boatload of fu money, just liquid cash in the bank. So if this means pulling back those investments like we talked a little bit a bit earlier that are specifically tied to 60 year old you or there's penalties if you grab it, it's okay. Maybe you pull that back a little bit and we just build up this big old f U money bucket where it's I have time and I have agency to figure it out and it's either growing my business or. Or figuring out how now that I'm not commuting everywhere and I don't have to pay for childcare, maybe my expenses are a lot lower and I can choose to be at home a little bit more. That's the agency that you're looking for. And it's just that space and time and margin for you to think about your best life. But money in the bank really helps.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Oh my God. You'll never regret it. Yeah. Oh, I wish I hadn't saved so much money.

[Andy Hill]

Exactly.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

And by the way, shout out to Sophia, my new friend that I made last night at this event. Let's talk a little bit about inspiring generational wealth health for kids. Since we are talking about families. How are you doing that with you? Have you said you have a teenage daughter?

[Andy Hill]

Yep. Are they both 14? On Saturday and then my son is 11, so I'm right in the middle of.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Yes, I have an 11 year old and an almost 9 year old. So you're my future A little bit with the 14 year old and terrified now. Sad. You know what, that's. It's good. It's all healthy. They're doing the right thing. But how are they? What do they think about what you do and your book and all of that? Have they asked you questions?

[Andy Hill]

Yeah, in the beginning it was a lot of fun. We played around, They've been co hosts on my show and we end up talking about money. I've shared the money books with them and they've learned a lot over the years. As they get to middle school, it can be something that they're almost a little embarrassed by because anything as you remember being in middle school and high school, anything that puts you outside of the norm of general society, that's embarrassing. So I'm okay. I have thick skin, so I'll be okay with it. But I do want to honor the fact that maybe they don't want me to come speak financial literacy at their middle school. So that's okay. But what we've learned over the years and what we've experimented with our kids is getting money in their hands as early as possible. To learn from and make mistakes from and fail from is actually fantastic. Because we'd much rather them make mistakes with $20 at 5 years old, then $20,000 at 25 years old. So we're having them learn early. And by getting money in their hands, I mean contributing around the house through household chores, maybe gifts from a generous grandma or an auntie that wants to send some money their way and as they got older, ways for them to earn money outside of the house. My daughter's been a soccer referee, she's done babysitting, things like that, where she starts to have money come in. Now that money's coming in, they can use it, they can experiment with it. But we like to break it down in the 60, 40 generational wealth plan. This is essentially 60% of the money coming in will go to smart spending guidance from the parents to make sure that they're doing smart things with it. But enough autonomy where they feel like they have some independence, 20% to go towards investing, because you and I know that things are not getting cheaper. And if we're going to be talking about college, we're going to be talking about homeownership, talking about retirement. Retirement. We have to invest. We have to invest. So if we can start that with the kids at that baseline of 20% when they're young, then hopefully that lesson will be there with them as they grow older. 10% for saving that short term stuff that's changed over the years. Lego sets to bikes, to laptops, to cell phones, depending on the age. And then 10% towards giving because I truly believe in my heart of hearts that giving and service to others is a pathway to true happiness. So that is has been a different variety over my kids lives that has been donating to their favorite charity. We have some discussions around the things that they're grateful for in their lives. My son always gravitates towards his home and feeling safe there. So he wants to donate towards people who don't have a home in metro Detroit. And he supported some great organizations. Say Detroit is one of those shout out to say Detroit. And then my daughter's always loved animals so she's always been feeling good by giving to animal shelters and that's drawn to her.

[Quo Business Phone System Advertiser]

But.

[Andy Hill]

But also just giving to their friends, being generous on their birthdays and being able to give without this tight grip of oh I don't have enough because it's specifically set aside towards giving. Just say this is always money you'll have in your life and give towards it. So that's how we've broken it down. And they've learned a lot over the years. We went from the jars with the physical cash to the debit cards with the app over the years and they've gained some independence and I'm so proud of where they are are with regard to their wealth and happiness journey.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

That's so great. Very intentional it sounds.

[Andy Hill]

Yeah.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

The autonomy for kids is so important to learn that and the forceful saving my dad would do that. He's like every paycheck you gotta. I always say the biggest regret is he opened up. He helped me open up a Roth IRA when I was a teenager when I got my first serving job at a restaurant. But I didn't quite understand anything about it. I was just like, I don't know, this is like a future account. And I never continued to invest in it when I couldn't could when I had the chance. With Roth IRAs, once you earn a certain amount of money it like you, you lose the opportunity. So I regret that. So parents, if you open up any accounts for your kids, keep the conversation going. Don't just open it and then they'll figure it out. All right. Andy Hill. It's always so great to have you. I'm so glad we got to reconnect. Congratulations on your book own your time. 10 financial steps to Put yout Family first and Escape the Corporate Grind. It's so hard to come out with a book in personal finance that feels fresh and. And needed. And this solves both. It is fresh and needed different. And I love that it's more about how to design your life and own your time. I think it's so accessible and for everybody and wherever you are on your financial continuum, wealth building continuum. An important book. Thank you.

[Andy Hill]

Thank you so much. I really appreciate your time.

[Farnoosh Torabi]

Thanks so much to Andy Hill for joining us. His book again is called Own youn Time and I've got that link in our show Notes. And by the way, if you want to join me on Friday for a workshop on how to build, grow and monetize a podcast. Speaking of, we mentioned that a little bit in this show today. How to, you know, start a thought leadership platform. Maybe podcasting is your next step. I want to share how I do it on this podcast, but also my other podcast that I launched last year, the Montclair Podcast that's happening this Friday, Friday the 13th at noon Eastern. I'll have that link in our show Notes. It's a live webinar but I'll also be recording it, so if you can't join, be sure to rscp. Anyway, you'll be on the list to get the recording. I'll see you back here on Wednesday. And I hope your day is so money.

[Andy Hill]

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[Farnoosh Torabi]

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[Andy Hill]

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[Tara Davis Woodhull / Hunter Woodhull (Olympic Athletes)]

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