← So Money with Farnoosh Torabi
So Money with Farnoosh Torabi
1948: Turning Side Hustles Into Sustainable Wealth with Money Girl Laura Adams
00:46:04
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D
so Money episode 1948 Money Girl Laura Adams on turning side hustles into sustainable wealth.
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A
You're listening to so Money with award winning money guru Farnoosh Torabi. Each day get a 30 minute dose of financial inspiration from the world's top business minds, authors, influencers and from Farnoosh herself. Looking for ways to save on gas or double your double coupons. Sorry, you're in the wrong place. Seeking profound ways to live a richer, happier life. Welcome to Sew Money.
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C
A lot of people will ask when do I need to incorporate? When do I need to set up the bank? They put the cart before the horse and want to do all of this stuff before earning the income from the side hustle or the solo gig. So that's what I Always tell people, prove it. Prove it first. Go out and do it. Earn the money. If you can earn, let's say, $10,000, that's at the point where you say, should I incorporate? Should I separate?
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B
Welcome to so Money everybody.
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D
I'm Farnoosh Tarabi. Our guest today is somebody who's been shaping the personal finance conversation for nearly two decades. Long before money podcasts were mainstream, long before side hustle was a buzzword, and long before financial literacy for women was framed around building wealth instead of just clipping coupons. Laura Adams is the host of the wildly successful Money Girl podcast show that's been downloaded more than 43 million times and ranks among the top popular podcasts globally. In just about 20 minutes each week, Laura does something that's pretty hard. She makes complex financial cons. She makes complex personal finance and small business topics feel approachable, actionable, even fun. And you've seen her everywhere, abc, cbs, Bloomberg, npr. And today she's here with us on so money. We dig into how financial advice for women has evolved over the years from focusing on savings, saving pennies, to thinking about legacy ownership and long term wealth. We also talk about solopreneurship and side hustles, what it really takes to build a one person business that doesn't just generate income, but can support your life. Here's Laura Adams.
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B
Laura Adams, welcome back to Sew Money. Has it been like 10 years?
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C
Yes. Hello, Farnoosh. It's so good to be back and yeah, so fun to recon. Has been a while.
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B
I feel so lucky to be able to reconnect with so many of my favorites in personal finance, you included. You're right at the top. Before we were recording, I was like, I remember the last time we met in person and maybe the only time we met in person was in San Francisco. Are you still out in the Bay Area?
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C
I'm not, I'm in Florida. But yeah, was there for about five, six years and was one of the highlights was meeting up with you and your husband and just it was so much fun.
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B
It was so much fun and so fast forward now. I was always a fan before we had met. I was following your work. You very much inspired so many. You were one of the very first podcasters, certainly women podcasters to take on this topic of personal finance on the mic. And I guess we could start with that. Having now been doing this for what, 18 years, people don't even realize podcasting has been around that long. But yes, sirs and ma', ams, it has been around for almost 20 years, probably longer.
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D
But you were one of the original podcasters, period.
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B
And then, of course, in personal finance, for sure.
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D
What. What do you think when you look back?
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B
What was it like back then? What were the biggest issues? And then comparatively now, are you finding
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D
yourself like a broken record at this
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B
point, or there are or. I feel like I've grown up with my audience. I'm curious to hear what you think.
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C
Yeah. When I started podcasting in 2007, one of the big issues was technology, just getting the podcast uploaded. It was very manual. It wasn't as automated and easy as it is today. So having to figure that out felt a little lonely. But I was a huge podcast fan and was listening to a lot of things like marketing and science, and there weren't that many podcasts when I started listening in 2004, 2005, and I was listening to so many shows, and I thought, I want to give back to this community. What can I do? And about that time, I had finished my mba and I thought maybe this would be a good way for me to review what I've learned in my coursework. And a small portion of it was personal finance. Of course, we don't. Even with an mba, you don't get that much personal finance content. And so I thought, let me start there. And I started getting a lot of feedback from listeners. And I'll never forget one of the first people who emailed me was a guy who was blind and listened while he worked at his job. He did some creation and just said he was listening. And it was like, oh, my gosh, like, I have affected this blind person's life. Who audio is number one for them. And I wasn't always an audio lover myself. So that kind of feedback, you know how that is, you get good, good feedback and it just feeds you. You just want to keep going and doing so. There were not, as you said, not that many. I don't think there were any shows back then. Maybe one personal finance show back then. So my thought was, I'm going to shift from the corporate finance over to personal finance and just see what kind of reaction I get. And got a ton of questions from people from all over the world. And yes, a lot of the things are the same that we're talking about, but a lot of things are really different back then. It was, think about as we moved into The Great Recession, 2007, 2008, things were a little scary back then. We were looking at things like deflation back then, not inflation. People were really dealing with Real estate values plummeting, people were. Financial institutions were going bankrupt. There was a lot of scary stuff happening back then. So I look at some of those early shows, even things like how much FDIC insurance do I have. People were worried about that as banks were failing. A lot of that stuff has come back, but it's a, in a different way. We're not looking at deflation right now. People are worried about inflation obviously right now certainly fintech is huge. Back then we didn't have very many like financial platforms or maybe there was like Quicken Intuit with Mint. Do you remember? Mint was a big oh rip. Now we have so many different options for fintech. Nobody goes to a local branch anymore. Everything is, all of our investing is online, all of our banking is done online. And I just think about a lot of those changes. Of course the housing industry that has changed back then, mortgage rates and were so low. Interest rates were practically at zero when we started. Now of course they have crept up. I think the work from home economy also, that has blossomed too. And so we've seen a lot of people wanting to know how do I start a business? And what's the deal with having a side side gig? All of that has blossomed in this space as well during the period from when I started to now.
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D
Well, let's put a pin in that
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B
because I also see behind you you have the Money Smart solopreneur book. I definitely, before you leave, want to get some, some strategies from you on that because I know many people in my audience want advice on side hustles and making more money. I'm curious again, looking back, is there advice or a mindset around money for you or even for your audience? But really I'm curious about you. That has shifted over these 20 years, let's just say for me, I think one thing that has, I think I've expanded my understanding of money and our money habits and our relationship to money to really have more of a, an appreciation for like how we were raised and our life experiences. All of that informing our relationship to money today and our habits. And of course 2020 was a huge reckoning in our country. Social reckoning, racial like reckoning. And I think that too informed us about all of the systemic barriers that continue, that persist, that stand in the way of marginalized, of people being able to get basic things like a good credit score, a house, a job, a raise. And so that too, I think has shaped a lot of what I cover now. And I can tell that's also top of Mind for my audience, I'm curious for you and from where you sit, like personally, has there been something that has for you like the growth mindset? Right. How have your, how has your financial mindset grown over the last 20 years or changed?
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C
Yeah, I mean it's exploded. Really? Yeah, changed dramatically. I think that when I started I came from, like you said, all you know is your background and your situation and being exposed to so many different people and also studying and learning from many different experts out there, you realize there's no one right way to do money. Yeah, it is personal. And yes, there are like fundamentals that come back to maybe some math principles that make sense. Yeah, we're going to look at high rate debt as being a little bit more dangerous than low rate debt. But some people are totally okay with having debt as long as they can make those monthly payments. Other people are scared to death of having any debt. They even want a mortgage. I've realized there's this really big sort of scale of how people feel and their risk tolerance. And the situation that you're in today could be very different than the situation that you're in a decade or two decades. That's, I think a big thing too. Just really understanding that everybody has their own sort of baseline for what's good and bad. And sometimes you need to reset that and say, hey, let's look at the national average on net worth statistics. For Those who are 45, you think you're way behind, but let's look at the average here. Actually you're doing pretty well. If you look at the average and just figuring out, hey, I'm probably doing a little bit better than I think I am. Or if you're coming to personal finance late in life, a lot of people feel like, oh my gosh, why even save? Like it's too late, it's I'm over, it's done. No, it's never too late. I've seen people at beginning of their career all the way up to pre retirement and it has really nothing to do with age. I've found it's about just your education and how much you want to personally learn and grow. You could be very young and doing great, but you can. I was very young and didn't even know what a 401k was and I didn't participate for many years because I didn't understand what they were. It doesn't have to do with age. It really has to do with just your personal interest and what you want to accomplish. Not everybody wants to retire at 65, some people want to retire early. Some people really want to work long and long into their old. So it's very personal.
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B
I love talking to another podcaster because you really command the mic and I can like just learn from you and enjoy the conversation so much because you just are so talented. So I'm admiring you. I'm just telling you, you know, I'm secretly admiring you as you're speaking. Last night I was at a gathering for alumni from Penn State, the business school. So I went there and there was a woman, young woman, who was so fabulous, I got to talk to her all night. Young grad, she actually has her MBA and she's working in New York City. And I cornered her and I said, are you investing? Because she had a job. It sounded like it was a big corporation. I was like, you have access to a 401k? She said, yes, ma'. Am. My ma'.
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Am.
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Farnoosh, I'm investing. I said, great. She's. And you. She didn't say those words, but I like, I heard ma', am, because we were. It's like a 20 year age difference. And she was also. I have a separate investment portfolio in addition to my 401k where I'm just. It's my alternative investment portfolio. And I was like, you go. And she just started a new job where she's making more money and she is on track. I'm so thrilled for her. But you, we, you and I are midlife, right? We are smack dab in the middle of midlife. And that's a lot of my audience here on so Money, and I think for you too is on Money Girl, the Money Girl podcast, your Money Girl ecosystem. What would you say are the most important financial steps for women at this stage in their life? Considering that for many they're going through a lot of transition, complex transitions that have to do with work, family, health. What do you think?
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C
So I do know a lot of people in middle age who are very focused on paying for their kids education totally at the expense of their own security and retirement. Now I get it. And I don't have kids, so I've been able to observe this from the sidelines. And my parents paid for my college education. I was very fortunate in that regard. Although I did pay for my graduate degree, I will say that I did take out some loans for a portion of my graduate degree. But when I see people who are not prepared for retirement, literally have saved nothing for retirement in middle age and are just pulling out all the stops to Pay for a child's education at a very expensive school. I it just the hackles raise on my back. And I just want to say, let's rethink this. So that's one issue that I see where I really wish people maybe either had prepared a little bit earlier or could just be realistic and say, you know what, maybe I could pay for a third of the education. Maybe you take out loans for a third, maybe you work for a third. It's a framework that I like to help people think through. Because if you just put everything into a child's education and come out the other side with literally nothing save for retirement, you're going to be scared as you approach retirement, you're going to feel like you have to work a lot longer than you probably should. I just feel panicked. So that's one area of midlife for women in particular, that I see them making a big mistake. A lot of people, though, are also doing great. I see a lot of women who maybe there have been life situations where they've had to start over. It could be a divorce, it could be becoming a widow. I see a lot of women who have life insurance that they've used. I have a good friend who lost a husband when her kids were very young. She was very fortunate to have life insurance that has that saved her. She has been able to have a very nice life based on that. So I see some people doing things really well, but I also see some people maybe not prioritizing correctly.
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B
And then for those who feel like they are late to, say, saving for retirement and they're in their 40s, I get a lot of panic. I hear, I feel that from the audience sometimes. And I always say, it's not too late, actually, we're living longer. And hey, look, I'm not gonna sugarcoat it and say, oh, just do a little bit at a time here. You probably have to accelerate your investing rate at this point if you haven't done anything for the last two decades. But that being said, I don't think you're going to arrive at 65 disappointed with having started investing in your 40s, even if it was whatever you could do. What's your response to someone, man, woman, who comes to you and says, I feel late to the finance game, particularly saving for my retirement.
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C
I think we all feel late no matter where we are, what stage in our life. A lot of us, we just feel that's fair. We fell behind. Yeah, I felt behind when I started in my early 30s. I, I, but yes, if you're in your 50s, 60s, you really do need to catch up. And for a lot of people, it could come down to downgrading their lifestyle. This is something maybe over decades, you've got the bigger home, you've had just a bigger lifestyle. And it could be time just to reevaluate that and focus in on what's important. Could you be okay with a less expensive home? Could you sell a car? Could you downsize a little bit? Because in a lot of cases, if you're not willing to earn more or do something to increase your income, you're really going to need to make some sacrifices. And in a lot of cases, it may just need to be temporary. It could be that you really cut back for a year or two and all of a sudden you've got so much more discretionary income in your budget, you're able to get caught up. So it does come down to making some sacrifices. And I know that's hard, but if you're not into sacrifices, maybe the other side is trying to earn more. Could be getting a second job, it could be getting that side hustle that you've always been curious about doing. And then there are also some things that we might think about in retirement if worse comes to worse. There are less expensive countries, places that you can retire to literally on a fraction of what it costs to live in the United States. And there's some emergency rip cords you could pull at the very last if you had to.
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B
You are making me think about future episodes. Like I see a title in my future called like Retirement Hacks. We know there's people who like house hack and credit card hack and to get the points and then the free trip to Bali. But like people also to your point, I mean, we're to hear from, we, we, we heard from Lynette Kalani Cox last week and I think, I don't know if she shared this while we were live, but when we were not recording a little off the mic, she talked about how they kind of college hacked for their three kids where they all went to state school intentionally, but they all went to state schools where the states and the state schools made it. So even if you were an out of state resident at first, you could enroll and then ultimately become in state through a variety of ways, whether it was like purchasing property in the state, your parents could help you with that, or getting a business incorporated in that state as a college student, which many can do and do, and then getting a license for that state and a residence in that state. And so all of that you could do probably freshman year and then by sophomore, junior, freshman year, senior year, you are now paying in state tuition. And I thought that was brilliant. And she was very, her family was very intentional about that. They were like, oh no, we didn't just get them go anywhere. Like, we made sure that it was a state school where that would have been allowed. And they all graduated debt free.
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C
Amazing.
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D
Before we move on with today's episode,
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I want to take a minute to
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talk about something that's pretty timely for a lot of us right now. Tax Season. This branded segment is brought to you by Boost Mobile and Acast Creative Studios. And it's really about using this time of year as a financial reset. Tax Season has a way of doing this thing where it zooms us in on one figure, the refund. I hear it all the time from listeners. People tell me they're waiting to see what they'll get back before they make any decisions. And I get it. A refund can feel like a relief, especially if money's been tight. But in my experience, both personally and after years of talking to people about their finances, real progress usually doesn't come from one big moment. It comes from the smaller, less exciting decisions we make throughout the year. And that's where this concept of the lazy tax comes in. And to be clear, this is not me talking about being lazy in a judgmental way. It's about being human. We're busy. We've got work, kids, aging parents, a million tabs open in our brains. So we stay on autopilot with certain bills. And one of the biggest places I see people paying the lazy tax is with their phone plans. I'll be honest, I've been guilty of this myself. There have been moments where I looked at a bill and thought, wait, how did this get so high? And then I realized I hadn't revisited it in years. Not because I didn't care, but because switching felt annoying and time consuming.
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B
That's usually what keeps people stuck.
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D
It's not that they love what they're paying. It's that changing feels like a project. Here's why this matters, especially right now. A tax refund can absolutely help. It can cover a bill, knock down some debt, or give you a little breathing room. But lasting financial improvement usually comes from lowering your monthly expenses, because that's money you get back every single month. When I help people with their budgets, this is often where the biggest aha moments happen. Saving $25 once feels good. Saving $25 every month, though, changes how your budget feels it's the difference between constantly feeling tight and feeling like you've got a little wiggle room. And phone plans are such a good
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B
place to look because so many of
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D
us are overpaying without realizing it. This is where Boost Mobile comes in and why I think it makes sense to talk about them. During tax season, Boost mobile offers a $25 Forever Unlimited plan that's data, talk and text for $25 a month. And the price doesn't go up over time. What I really appreciate here is how straightforward this is. There's no fine print maze to navigate. There are no contracts, so you're in control. There are no minimum line requirements, which matters if you're managing a household budget or just paying for yourself. There's also a 30 day money back guarantee, which I think is important because
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it removes that fear of what if
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this doesn't work and you can keep
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B
the phone you already have?
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D
And like, that's huge. Most people don't want to relearn a new device or deal with transferring everything over. This lets you make a change without disrupting your routine. One thing I learned over the years, and this comes up again and again on SEW money, is that financial confidence isn't about perfection. It's about awareness. The people who feel most in control of their money usually aren't doing anything fancy. They're not constantly chasing hacks or windfalls. They've just taken the time to clean up the recurring stuff so it's not quietly draining them. Lowering a bill like your phone plan
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B
might not feel exciting.
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D
It's not something you brag about, but it is one of those decisions that makes everything else easier. And tax season is actually a great time to do this kind of check in because you're already looking at your finances as a whole. You're already asking questions like where is my money going? What am I paying for? What still makes sense? Sometimes the smartest move isn't adding a new account or strategy, it's simplifying what you already have. I often tell listeners to think of tax season not just as filing paperwork, but as a reset point, a chance to make one or two changes that your future self will be really grateful for. And when it comes to making changes, I'm a big believer in starting with the low hanging fruit, the things that don't require a total overhaul but still unlocks a meaningful difference. That's why something like switching a phone plan can be so powerful. It's a manageable step. It lowers your monthly costs and it gives you a quick win, which builds momentum. So if you're looking at your finances this tax season and thinking about where you might be able to simplify and save without giving something up, this could be a really smart place to start. With Boost Mobile, you can keep the phone you already love and switch to the $25 Forever Unlimited plan. That's unlimited data, talk, and text for just $25 a month with no contracts and no fuss. To learn more, visit boostmobile.com After 30 gigabytes, customers may experience slower speeds. Customers will pay $25 per month as long as they remain active on the Boost Unlimited plan. And thanks again to Boost Mobile and Acast Creative Studios for supporting today's segment and and helping us all think a little more intentionally about our money this tax season. Ask any small business owner and they'll tell you finances get messy fast. A bank account here, bookkeeping software there, tax tools and invoicing apps stacked on top. Before long, you're buried in subscriptions, behind on your books, and not totally sure where your business really stands. That's the that's why there's Found. Found eliminates the clutter by giving you one platform that handles it all. Banking, bookkeeping, invoices, and taxes. No more paying for multiple subscriptions and dealing with clunky, outdated apps. Found is reimagining what business banking should be by putting your bookkeeping, invoicing, and tax tools directly into your business checking account. You can even send invoices for free and pay your contractors. Everything, all from one app. Honestly, if I could go back to when I was starting my business, Found would have saved me so much time, money, and stress. Take back control of your business Today. Open a Found account for free@found.com that's f o u n d com. Found is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services are provided by lead bank member fdic. Join the hundreds of thousands who've already streamlined their finances with foundation Let me tell you about my most recent online shopping spiral. You know the one you're scrolling? You find the thing, you add it to the cart, and then checkout hits. Suddenly, you're being asked for a password you definitely created five years ago.
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B
Or your wallet's in another room, or
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D
your card is somewhere in the abyss of your bag. And then, if you're lucky, you see it. It's that purple pay button that has all of your information saved, making checking out as simple as a tap of your screen in the chaotic world of online shopping. Honestly, this feels like a small miracle. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e commerce in the US from household names like Alo, Yoga, Heinz and Mattel to brands just getting started behind the scenes. Shopify gives sellers everything they need in one place, from inventory and payments to analytics. So you're not juggling a million platforms just to keep your business running. If you're building a brand, Shopify makes it easy to stand out. With hundreds of ready to use templates, you can create a beautiful online store that actually reflects your style. And Shopify doesn't just help you build a brand, it helps you grow. From easy to run email and social media campaigns to finding customers who've never heard of your brand before. It's like having a marketing team in your corner. See less carts go abandoned and more sales go with Shopify and their Shop Pay button. Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at shopify.com somoney go to shopify.com somoney that's shopify.com somoney
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A
before we had at&t business Wireless coverage, our delivery GPS wasn't the most reliable. Once our driver had to do a 14 point turn to get back to on route. A 14 point turn, an influencer even livestream the whole thing. Not good for business. Now with AT&T business Wireless routes are updating on the fly and deliveries are on time. And the influencer did get us 53 new followers though at&t business Wireless connecting changes everything. Most all in one HR systems are a patchwork of disconnected and manual tools. Rippling is totally automated. If you promote an employee, Rippling can automatically handle necessary updates from payroll taxes and provisioning new app permissions to assigning required manager training. That's why Rippling is the 1 rated human capital management suite on G2, TrustRadius and Gartner. If you're ready to run the backbone of your business on one unified platform, head to rippling.com acastbiz and sign up today. That's R-I P P L-I-N-.com acastbiz to sign up.
- [30:28]
B
All right, you mentioned you teased solopreneurship and side hustles. Let's dedicate now a healthy amount of time remaining to that. It seems almost inevitable these days where you can't just rely on a single income to make ends meet. What do you think about that? Actually, do you have a a firm thesis on this?
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C
I do and I call it paranoia. I don't know what it is. I've always had multiple Sources of income, even when I was am working as an employee because I just like the security. It's almost like a little form of insurance that you. Multiple sources. And there was a great book, Multiple Sources of Income that I read many years ago that sort of, I think, influenced my feeling about this. But that's also become more normal, I think from when I started back in 2007, 2008, it seems like that's very much a normal thing to have a day job and be doing something on the side. A lot of people will ask, when do I need to incorporate? When do I need to set up the bank? They put the cart before the horse and want to do all of this stuff before earning the income from the side hustle or the solo gig. So that's what I always tell people.
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D
Prove it.
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C
Prove it first. Go out and do it. Earn the money. If you can earn, let's say $10,000, that's at the point where you say, should I incorporate? Should I separate? Now you want to keep everything separate in your tagging system or how you're thinking about that money because that is separate from your personal income. But once you've got that amount of money, that's at the point where I say, yeah, maybe you want to think about what's my liability here. Do I need to incorporate? Do I need a special business insurance? Can I get a free business checking account when there are plenty of great ones out there? So don't get too hung up on, oh my gosh, the taxes and the structure and all of that can hold people back from getting started. I say just go, get started, earn the money and then decide how to manage it and structure it the best way.
- [32:31]
B
Yeah. And in terms of what to do, there's two schools of thought on this. One is I like the. I always like the path of create a revenue stream for yourself that is kind of tangential to what you're doing professionally already. In other words, like it's already in your wheelhouse, you don't have to learn it or it's something that you like to do. It doesn't have to be a professional skill. But maybe you like pet sitting or you like pets so you can pet sit. Maybe you are very handy so you can start to become more of like a freelance fixer upper around your neighborhood. A friend of mine did that in her town in Pittsburgh. She's like a brilliant artist and engineer, was a stay at home mom for some years, but then decided I'm the fixer upper around my house. She renovated her own bathroom and realized, I can start doing this, like contracting for my neighbors and started doing that. I thought that was brilliant. So there's the school of thought where it's just build from where you are and create a side hustle that way. And then there's like maybe another school of thought, which is if you've always had your eye on doing that thing, but maybe your day job is just helping you pay the bills. I'm more curious about that transition because that seems like a harder move, right? That create that that requires steps. Perhaps maybe going back to school, maybe doing an apprenticeship, maybe learning and taking actual time off your job to then dedicate to building that thing. I'm just throwing a bunch of ideas out there. What's resonating with you?
- [33:58]
C
Yeah, I definitely love the idea of doing something that already uses the skills and experience that you have. Because what happens, I find this is what happened to me. I found that the side work I was doing made me better at my day job, and my day job made me better at my side work. It was like all of that melded together and just made me better in general at both of them. And that's a real win win. And in that case, your employer may even go, wow, is fantastic. You're bringing these, whatever it is, your, your new marketing or PR skills with your client, bringing that experience and know how your SEO skills, whatever it is, bringing that into the workplace. And then your clients love the fact that you've got this corporate experience that really elevates your credibility in their eyes. So that's just one example of how it may work that I think is a good place to start. But as you said, Farnoosh, if there's something that you've just been dying to do, you want to learn some new
- [35:01]
D
skill or go back to school, start
- [35:04]
C
a business, and maybe you're great. Maybe you're great at some. At a tennis. And you think, gosh, I we need to start pickleball lessons in my area, you could branch out and do something that's a little bit different.
- [35:16]
D
Yes.
- [35:16]
C
If you're starting completely from scratch, it may take a little bit more money, it may take a little bit more time to get up to speed to get the revenue that you want. This is why people will buy a franchise, let's say your investment, because they're giving you all the branding and they're giving you all of that experience, handing you the playbook to do it. So there's always a cost in that. But if you're already the Expert, you already have those life skills and that passion as well. I think it makes it a little bit more seamless.
- [35:49]
B
So your work is everywhere. It started with the podcast, but then it, or maybe it didn't start with the podcast. That's how I discovered you. But perhaps you had maybe other content elsewhere. But I know today you have a substack, you have the podcast, you have books, you speak, you do media, you're everywhere is my point. And I guess my ask of you is for someone who wants to build a content ecosystem, a thought leadership business, where do they begin? Because it can be very overwhelming and stressful to see some people like us who have been doing this for decades and they don't realize that this wasn't all overnight. Right. Like we didn't always, we didn't turn on the light and start doing all these things immediately. Like it was a build up. Where do you recommend people start? I like for people in corporate to start with something that's not necessarily like putting themselves to out there, like face, sound, name, likeness, like it's more, I would say start a newsletter or like start on LinkedIn because as with your employers, it can be a little dicey. Like they may not want you to immediately go and like start a YouTube channel. I don't know, it just depends on your employer. Clear it with your boss. But just to be safe, like maybe something a little bit more discreet. But what do you think?
- [37:08]
C
Yeah, so I call it a portfolio career.
- [37:11]
B
Yeah, I love that.
- [37:12]
C
A lot of different things that basically all relate to each other. The first thing that you have to do is figure out what you could talk about for the next decade. Yeah, you're going to be talking about something you better love. Better be something that you're just naturally curious about. And that's the case for me. Like I would be researching financial topics and like studying this stuff whether I had this career or not. And I realized that people and friends were coming to me asking me questions like, oh, how what's the deal with the 401k? And you start to realize this is my strength. And if you really enjoy it, then I would say dive in and really just get good at one thing and feel like you can really create a lot of content around it. If you feel like, eh, this is something I could talk about for a few months, you're going to fizzle out. You're not going to retain the passion and the content for it, but if you genuinely have an interest in it, you're probably going to stick with it. So I would say find that thing and be consistent. I still to this day have podcasts every week for like almost 20 years now. And we've started doing two a week at Money Girl a couple of years ago, so I'm actually doing two a week. We have almost a thousand shows in the archive, so consistency. And I'll tell you, those first years were pretty lonely and not that great in terms of the charts and the downloads, but over time that accumulates. So just be persistent. I think that's another secret.
- [38:47]
D
Yeah, play the long game.
- [38:48]
B
I so appreciate those tips. I think that definitely tracks with the what's fueled so money. But yeah, I think so often we chase like the shiny platform object. Before we were recording, we were talking about Substack and you're on there and tell us about your substack first. I want you to give us a little shout out to that and then we'll talk about. My point with that is just I've chased that substack that's been dangled to me a lot and I've looked into it. I'm so curious and tempted, but I'm like, I don't know everyone. Am I just following the herd or is it really meaning? And so I'm still exploring, but I'd love to hear how it's working for you.
- [39:24]
C
Yeah, I do think it's here to stay. I see the platform really improving. If you're not familiar with Substack, it's like a newsletter meets a blog meets social media. There's all these facets combined in this platform. I think for people who are maybe a little tired of social media and ready to just move away from social media, Substack has been a great option. You can subscribe to lots of different substacks out there for free. You can become paid members members if you really want to dig in. The Money Stack is my newsletter. It's weekly and it's just a lot of tips and advice and tools and what's going on with me. And we have a lot of free subscribers, which is fantastic. We have a few that are paid that get more access to me with live events. And it's just a really great opportunity to connect with people, I think outside of social media. So that was the big draw for me. I'm not a huge social, big social media fan, but Substack for me has been just that sweet spot. And the app is great. If you want to use the app or if you want to get the newsletters to your email, that's great too. So I just find it really flexible.
- [40:39]
B
I love that you're not. You have created this boundary of this is where I show up. I think that's another takeaway. It's. Let's say the quiet part out loud. The takeaway here is that you have created boundaries in your business. And I think that's a takeaway for all of us. And it's good news, right? There's fear sometimes in feeling like if I don't show up everywhere, fewer people will find me and I won't scale and I won't be as successful. But I think that the sort of the benefit to creating your boundaries, identifying what's working and doubling down on those platforms is that you build more of a connection with those followers and you can go deeper and there's more richness there. And at the end of the day, like, I love this expression. I'd rather be significant to a few than average to many.
- [41:28]
C
That.
- [41:29]
B
And I don't think that's appreciated enough in our culture of, like, mass adoption, everything. We just like virality. And now we're not even talking about billion. It's like trillionaire. It's like accumulation is the name of the game. And I feel like that loses a lot. Who can do that? It's like you need. Then you need a team. And that's the other thing about you and I is we don't have. I don't think you do. We don't have a team of 20 people, freelancers or staff. Like, we don't walk around with an entourage.
- [42:00]
C
Yeah. For me, solopreneur really means solopreneur.
- [42:03]
B
Yeah.
- [42:03]
C
Now, the podcast does have a team of people. Sure. A quick and dirty tips team. We have a producer and we have folks that are there on the business side of things. But there is nothing wrong with staying small, staying lean. If you want to scale a business, fantastic. But for a lot of people, I think simple is better. So don't. Don't be. Think, gosh, I have to hire, like you said, hire a team and become some huge brand. It really can be one person, and in a lot of cases, that brings you a lot more, I think, happiness. It's. They call it a lifestyle business because it truly is about how. How you're feeling day to day. And for me, managing people, I did that a lot at one point in my life, and I'm okay with that. But I find that I'm just a little bit happier when I'm on my own and a little bit more nimble and can do things quickly as we wrap.
- [42:57]
B
In summary, I'd love you or your advice on the simplest ways for our audience to think about what enough can mean for them. This is a term that we often struggle with in, in the financial world. Again, speaking of like chasing numbers in our personal financial life, we also feel like, like it's never enough making more and then we want to make more and then there's lifestyle creep and then we struggle with this idea of what would actually be enough for me and my family. And if you have any thoughts on that in terms of that calculus or what things to reflect on to get closer to that number, that figure what I mean. And I know it's super personal, but maybe you can reflect on what's worked for you. Just any wisdom on that you can shed would be so appreciated.
- [43:46]
C
Yeah, I think if you are in a situation where you're thinking about a change, whether that's downsizing or maybe a career change, but you think what would the neighbors think or what would my friends think? If you're ever in that headspace, you really need to step back. Because I was there at one point thinking the bigger house, the bigger is better. And it really wasn't until I relocated across the country from Florida to California where we were talking about how where we met and had a huge lifestyle change and went from being a homeowner to a renter and living in the city and all of that, that I realized that if I had stayed where I was, I would have been caught in a trap of bigger. And so for me, I, at that point I started downsizing and I realized I don't need a huge house. First of all, I don't have any kids. And when I went to San Francisco, furnish, you'll laugh at this, the first place I rented was a three bedroom apartment because at home I had a four bedroom. I had a four bedroom house. I thought, oh, of course you have to have a, you have to have a four bedroom apartment. There were no four bedroom apartments to rent in San Francisco. Right. That weren't a million dollars a month. So I thought we'll have to find a three bedroom. And if quickly I realized that was ridiculous. That was not the lifestyle people out there do more outside so expensive there. So that was a really big shift for me because I realized it doesn't matter what your friends think or your neighbors think. You really need to get clear on your goals. What is it that makes you happy? And really. And that can be very hard to do when you feel like you're in this group of people and they're, maybe they're judging you or you want their approval and they're, you want them to think well of you and you think, gosh, if I make some change, what are they going to think? And I'm going to tell you that there is nobody who is worth keeping as a friend who is going to criticize you for making any kind of key lifestyle change that's important for you, whether it's just you want to do it or whether you need to do it financially. So try to get out of that keeping up with the Joneses mentality because I think in the long run it, it doesn't pay off and it's not going to help you build wealth and it's not going to help you build happiness.
- [46:19]
B
Yeah. You know what else I've done is I've started to unfollow and mute certain influencers and people online that I, maybe at first it was exciting to follow them because they, they were very glamorous or they had stuff, they were going places, but eventually just became like an unnecessary distraction and it was putting thoughts in my head about am I parenting? Right? Am I living up to my, my best life, all that. And I think that idea of keeping up with the Joneses was like, the challenge is now is that you don't have just the Joneses next door. You have the Joneses online.
- [46:53]
C
Yes.
- [46:54]
B
And what was the other thing?
- [46:56]
D
I'm gonna.
- [46:56]
C
And I think that's one of the reasons I don't do a ton on social media because I don't really like that distraction. I'm kind of like, keep your head down, keep your eyes on your own paper, stay in your lane. That has always worked much better for me than getting distracted and feeling, oh my gosh, I'm envious of them or they're way ahead of where I want to be. We all have our own strengths, our own weaknesses. We're running our own race. And when you get distracted, it just, it just ends up, I think, detracting from the potential that you have. So that is really important. I, and so I love that, that you're thinking about social media as a potential distraction that not only could hurt your finances, but your emotional being as well.
- [47:42]
B
We have the data, although as we're recording, I think it was just a couple days ago the CEO of Instagram testified before, I guess it was Congress or something. There's a big case right now on how these social media platforms are impacting our social emotional well being. And he was like, like, I don't
- [48:00]
D
think there's any data to support the negative impact.
- [48:03]
B
Of course he's gonna say that. Then I went down into a deep rabbit hole of researching this guy. I can't remember his name right now, but I'm trying to figure out, like, what's his deal? Like why? Oh, cause he makes $18 million a year. I. Okay, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Enough said. As you were also explaining beautifully this concept of just having to really get clear on your goals and really trying to tune out. I know it's hard everybody else's wants for you. It reminded me of the importance of the sort of foundational work of maybe some therapy. Right. That if you do feel like you have to have that you need this sense of acceptance belonging to your friends, to your family, to a group. And that's going to only happen through having things or displaying a certain lifestyle. It's not only on them. Right. It's also on you to figure out what's at the root of that. And sometimes solving that is what ends up kind of the chipsends tend to fall in place a lot easier. Where do you want your next 18 years to go, Laura? You've built and I hate, and forgive me if you don't like this question because sometimes I get this question, I'm like, I'm just starting, please. And I get nervous. Risk too, because I'm like, I don't know. I don't really know. And if you don't know, that's fine, be honest. But have you thought about the next chapter of the Money Girl and you know, your life as a content creator and as an educator and all of that? Your podcaster?
- [49:38]
C
Yeah, I love creating content, so I definitely want to continue doing that. And I think if there is a way to do something a little more mission based, purpose based, I don't know what that is. It could be working for a non profit. It could be volunteering maybe eventually if I decide to retire or work part time, I think there's a lot of different ways I could go. But I do think about it a lot because at different stages in your life you have more to give, you have different skills and abilities and kind of mentorship becomes a bigger thing the older you get. So if there is a way to turn that into maybe helping people in this community or helping under privileged people in my community or in the nation related to personal finance, I think that's where my brain is going to go.
- [50:34]
B
We can't wait to watch it and please come back anytime. In the meantime, we'll be listening. We will be reading and we appreciate everything, all the commitment, really, it's it listen I it is not lost on me the amount of effort and consistency and the important work that you have provided your audience. And starting from that one person that wrote to you, the person who could listen finally and learn about personal finance. What a life you have changed and many lives you have changed. Laura Adams, thank you so much for coming on the show.
- [51:08]
C
Farnoosh thank you. You are the best. This has been great.
- [51:14]
D
Thanks so much to Laura Adams for joining us. Her podcast again is called Money Girl. We've got all the links to her show notes.
- [51:20]
B
I'll see you back here on Wednesday. And I hope your day is so money.
- [51:38]
A
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- [52:09]
D
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