← So Money with Farnoosh Torabi
So Money with Farnoosh Torabi
1979: Mrs. Dow Jones on Why the Old Money Rules Don't Work Anymore
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- [00:00]
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Farnoosh Torabi
So Money episode 1979 Mrs. Dow Jones on why the old money rules don't work anymore.
- [02:42]
Podcast Introduction Voice
You're listening to so Money with award winning money guru Farnoosh Torabi. Each day get a 30 minute dose of financial inspiration from the world's top business minds, authors, influencers and from Farnoosh her looking for ways to save on gas or double your double coupons. Sorry, you're in the wrong place. Seeking profound ways to live a richer, happier life. Welcome to SO money.
- [03:08]
Haley Sachs (Mrs. Dow Jones)
What we know now is that when we run the numbers, people are seeing, especially in cities like New York or LA or Chicago, like metropolitan cities, that when they rent and they invest their dump payment money instead, they're seeing a much bigger return than if they had bought that property. And so that's one part of the American dream that I think is a new rule of building wealth. I also think that we are in this golden age of investing. We are obviously living in the world of frictionless finance. Like we're definitely the first generation to just have so much at our fingertips when it comes to the financial moves that we can make. I could open my phone right now and buy an index fund or open a Roth IRA or make a payment of my debt. These used to be things that like you had to really work to do. You had to submit paperwork and billing and call people. And now it can be done in a matter of seconds.
- [04:04]
Farnoosh Torabi
Welcome to so Money everybody. I'm Farnoosh Tarabi. Really thrilled for today's conversation which centers around what it means to actually be rich today. Because if you're waiting for the old playbook to work, and by old, I mean like our parents and our grandparents playbook, which included going to school, getting a stable job, buying a house, retiring comfortably, you may be waiting a long time. The truth is that version of wealth is outdated and for many younger earners especially, it feels completely out of reach. So what are the new rules? Our guest today has built a massive following by calling out the broken advice that we've inherited and replacing it with something far more realistic and more empowering. Haley Sachs, also known as Mrs. Dow Jones, is back on the show with her new book called Future Rich Person. And this is not your typical money book. Hailey is speaking directly to what she calls the Zillennial generation, but really anyone who feels like they're doing all the right things and still not getting ahead. In our conversation, we talk about why the traditional path to wealth is due for a rewrite, how to actually start building what she calls action money, and why your income and your skills, even your relationship to work, need to evolve in an AI driven economy. We also dive into some of the cultural forces shaping how we think about money right now. From the rise of trad wife content to the very real temptation to opt out of the financial game altogether.
- [05:34]
Farnoosh Torabi (Interviewer)
Here's Haley Saks,
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Farnoosh Torabi
Haley Sachs, Mrs. Dow Jones.
- [05:40]
Farnoosh Torabi (Interviewer)
Welcome back to so Money.
- [05:42]
Haley Sachs (Mrs. Dow Jones)
Oh my gosh. Thank you so much for having me for Noosh. I missed you, girl.
- [05:45]
Farnoosh Torabi (Interviewer)
I know. Last we met, we were at my book launch, October 2024. Wait, wait, 2023? I'm getting my years mix. Oh my gosh. That's how old I'm getting.
- [05:56]
Haley Sachs (Mrs. Dow Jones)
No, no, no, no. It was, it was. All those years were a blur post Covid.
- [06:00]
Farnoosh Torabi (Interviewer)
Oh my God. But so much has changed in so many great ways for you since then. You have become an author and a podcaster and your star has continued to rise. Where do we even begin? I would love to start with your book, actually. Your amazing book, Future rich person.
- [06:18]
Haley Sachs (Mrs. Dow Jones)
Yes.
- [06:18]
Farnoosh Torabi (Interviewer)
You know, I've always said, like, when is your book coming out? When are you going to write a book? And you were very thoughtful and strategic about it. You're like, I'm gonna wait. You know, and like, you could have written a book five years ago, three years ago. Why did you want to wait for now to come out with a book? Because your audience has been just salivating for this.
- [06:38]
Haley Sachs (Mrs. Dow Jones)
So nice. And I have to say, like, I admire you so much. And when you're saying all the things that I've like, done in this time, I'm like, farnish, you did all of that first. So we all bow down to you. You were the OG and credit where credit is due. But I, you know, I had a breakout moment with my career in around 2019 where I got a big article in the New York Times and that led to me getting a lot of inquiries about writing a book and that I was like, sort of played with. Like, I started to work on a proposal and I was so excited. And it's cause it's always been a dream of mine to be an author, but I needed to focus first. But I realized I need to focus first on building my audience and my business a bit more because I was at that point, I was trying to do so many things at once. I, like, was running a nonprofit through Mrs. Dow Jones called Moms Are Cool for, like, moms that were really affected by Covid. And I was writing the book and I was running the business, and, like, there was just, like, so many. So too many factors at play. And I was like, I want to do this when I have the time to really write it. Like, I wanna write every word of this. This book is not AI and I need to give myself that bandwidth. And, yeah, and it's. You know, it's so funny because 2019 seems so long ago, but it also feels so long ago when this whole process started. Like, you know, the book process is,
- [08:02]
Farnoosh Torabi (Interviewer)
like, it does take years.
- [08:03]
Haley Sachs (Mrs. Dow Jones)
It takes a year to really get it, to even get your deal done. But then it's another, like, year to write it. And then it's. It's been a huge chunk of my life.
- [08:12]
Farnoosh Torabi (Interviewer)
And so here we are. It's 2020. Let me get my date right. It is six. And you really, your target, your sweet spot, is this zillennial demographic. First tell us who she is, who he is, who they are.
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Haley Sachs (Mrs. Dow Jones)
Yeah, so I always say I'm Mrs. Dow Jones, Zillennial finance expert. And so that really means that I am targeting people who are, you know, 21 to probably, like, 45. But that being said, I always find it a little bit difficult to really pigeonhole my audience with age in that way because I get so many messages, especially from women who are all type, all points of their life and they want to start over. And so the same way that I don't think that my work is necessarily just for women, even though I'm a woman, like, people always love to, like, treat you like you're always making a tampon commercial. And it's like, not. Like, this is definitely not my vibe. I think the same can be said for the age thing. But, you know, the book's focus, though, is that millennial and Gen Z generation, because, you know, the financial advice that we've inherited is so outdated when it comes to the world that we're living in right now. And so, like, I'm a very voracious reader. I read basically every money book. I've read all of your money books, and it's been such a huge unlock for me with my own financial literacy. But something that I really thought was missing was something that could meet people where they are at now, because we really do need new rules to building wealth.
- [09:43]
Farnoosh Torabi (Interviewer)
And so meeting people where there are right now, I was thinking about who is just graduating from college, a few years out even, and they're like, what the hell, I went to college, I went to a good college and I may not have even taken out any student loans, right? Maybe I got a scholarship, but I can't find work. This is my problem. This is a universal problem right now. I think with a lot of people in the workforce who are, let's say 22 to 30, the this sort of entry level job. You know, I was just listening to someone talk about how the entry level job hasn't gone away. It's just that the entry level job is now a mid level job. And so the entry level job is now AI. So you know, how do you upskill, how do you reskill? And this is not like you're already out of college, like you thought you had the degree, you could get a job. So, so speaking to that person, because before you can become a future rich person, you need to start making money to do the things you need to do to invest and save and all the things. So what do you tell the person now who is just trying to get revenue?
- [10:51]
Haley Sachs (Mrs. Dow Jones)
Yeah, I mean, that's such a good point. And I talk about that in the book so much. I call it action money, which is that money left over after you have spent what you need on your needs and your wants within reason. And without that action money at the end of each month, then you'll never really be growing wealth because you need some sort of money to make progress towards your financial goals. But speaking to the younger generation who's coming into this job market where it does feel like you need to be basically mid level to get higher, despite the fact that you don't have that experience. I think that it's really important. The media really loves to catastrophize what's happening with AI. And it's true that entry level jobs are going away, but historically these changes have always happened in our society with technology. Like if you think back to like elevators, when you used to take an elevator, there would be someone in the elevator actually physically operating the elevator so that you could go up each floor. Then you know, technology advanced and we got buttons and that person was out of, out of a job. Does that mean that that person was unemployed for the rest of their life? No, they found a different way in. Maybe they worked for the elevator company to figure out how to fix that elevator. Like so it's not about being scared of AI, it's learning how to use and master AI. And especially as women, because all of the Statistics show that women are adapting to AI at a much slower rate than men, but create so much productivity. It's so important to be something that you are embracing versus fearing. So it's not going anywhere. The same way we're not going back to when elevators were manually operated. I don't think that we're going back to a world without, you know, chatgpt. And so for the new graduates, it's about putting yourself in a position where you can be valuable and maybe your value is not the same as it was 10 years ago as someone entering the workforce. But what does the workforce need? The workforce needs people who are really confident and competent and skillful with using these new technologies. And also we need people in the humanities. Like that's also not going away. Like there's some things that, yes, computers can generate and you know, outshine us with, but when it comes to the humanities, like those are jobs that will always be like human natured.
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Farnoosh Torabi (Interviewer)
Yeah. And I'm, I'm learning more that while we may have, you know, taken those humanity roles for granted in the past, that, you know, maybe even undervalued them, that they're going to be even more valuable like critical thinking and writing and all of that problem solving. Like, you know, double down on that. Because, you know, if you're a software developer, right now I'm learning, like I'm starting a, a project right now and I want to get a prototype together and I was advised, like don't hire a software developer to get you from zero to one because AI can get you there in 10 minutes. Hire a software developer that has a business mindset too, who can show you how to scale it, who can tell you, you know, here's how to take your tech idea and how to actually make it work and make it, you know, consumer friendly. Like if you're a software developer, maybe you should go take some business classes. Right. Or some problem solving classes because that's where I feel like me as like an entrepreneur. That's value add for me, you know, so anyway, that's speaking to your point. But you talk about how our parents generation, like that old money book is not applicable anymore. Can you tell me what are the things? Because I'm hearing a lot about how real estate isn't worth it anymore. And you know, but at the end of the day, like we got a lot of property in this country, like
- [14:30]
Haley Sachs (Mrs. Dow Jones)
someone's got to buy it a hundred percent.
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Farnoosh Torabi (Interviewer)
I feel like that's kind of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Like, tell Me, actually, what is the advice that we need to dispel and some of it maybe that we have to tweak?
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Haley Sachs (Mrs. Dow Jones)
Well, I think that it all starts with this sort of antiquated, dusty version of the American dream that we inherited, which was that dream of property where, you know, the expectation was you were going to put the majority of your savings, basically your money for retirement, into a home and live there. And then, you know, the light at the end of the tunnel is that you're going to be able to sell it and it's going to make so much money for you that you're going to be able to then like have that retirement so you really can have your cake and eat it too. And what we know now is that when we run the numbers, people are seeing, especially in cities like New York or LA or Chicago, like metropolitan cities, that when they rent and they invest their down payment money instead, they're seeing a much bigger return than if they had bought that property. And so that's one part of the American dream that I think is like a new, a new rule of building wealth. I also think that, you know, we are in this golden age of investing. We are obviously living in the world of frictionless finance. Like, we're definitely the first generation to just have so much at our fingertips when it comes to the financial moves that we can make. Like, you know, I could open my phone right now and buy an index fund or open a Roth IRA or you know, make a payment on my debt. These used to be things that like, you had to really work to do. You had to, you know, submit paperwork and billing and call people. And now it can be done a matter of seconds. And so I think with that comes so much more opportunity to invest. So another new rule of building wealth is really maximizing on your investing, which I know you talk about a lot, and it's not a new rule, but it's more taking advantage of these new technologies so that you're able to build actual wealth. Another one is that income is not fixed. Like, I think people, a lot of people think, okay, what I'm making, like that's just how much I make. Making sure that you're really negotiating, practicing that skill, like it is something that you can grow. Cash flow is a huge part of the equation of being a future rich person. And the biggest lever that most people don't pull is just asking for more money. But you know, things like really understanding your taxes, understanding your financial energy. I think for our parents generation, especially for women, so much I Call it financial energy in the book, it's like where you're putting your efforts with your finances which is so finite. Like right. Like even us as financial experts, there's only a certain amount of energy every day that we have to put towards this. But you know, instead of optimizing the oat milk latte and like I talk out in the book, you know, I would read these blogs for about how to optimize your finances that would tell me to like never buy pre cut vegetables. You should always buy the vegetable whole and cut it yourself because like God forbid you spend that like extra one or two dollars for the convenience. And it's like that's not actually smart financial energy usage. Yeah. Like the best things to do are to learn how to negotiate, to automate your investment, to increase your human capital, learn about AI earn, like take a course so that you can get paid more like focus on the moves that actually move the needle.
- [17:58]
Farnoosh Torabi (Interviewer)
Yes. Well, speaking of energy, you know, everything you're saying, I'm like, yes, yes, yes. And on the Internet where you and I both live and you live on there a lot and you have a huge, huge, huge, huge audience. I'm sure you've seen this theme around feminine energy and how it's incongruent to this idea of financial energy. There is a school of thought out there. Right? I know, like if you're really going to step into your feminine, then it's all about deferring your financial life to your man trad wife, et cetera. I'm going to give you the floor here to talk a little bit about that and why this is problematic potentially. But a lot of this mindset lives in, in, in your audience potentially. Right. Like the zillennials. Like I feel like this is an aspiration of young people. It's kind of an antidote to the girl boss hu where that like that, that bill of goods didn't work out for so many people. Like this idea of, you know, grind and hustle and then you'll get the corner office like that, that promise didn't pan out. And so some women are like, well then I'm just gonna give it up, you know, all of it and I'm just gonna defer to my mate and live the soft life. Which we know it's like two extremes, but this is the world we live in right now. And I just want you to kind of speak to that and tell us why that's potentially dangerous.
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Haley Sachs (Mrs. Dow Jones)
Well, first of all, I want to say that any trad wife that you see online is a girl boss because they are making so much money from that content. Like, you don't have to worry about them. Don't worry about the one from Ballerina Farms. Like, she is making millions. And so it's interesting because they're obviously promoting this idea of, like, baking bread and wearing prairie skirts, but they're, like, on the back end, planning their content shoots, monetizing things, taking meetings, edits, you know, the whole shebang. But when it comes to how this relates to being a future rich person, in the book, I coined this term called Learn Financial helplessness, which is really this feeling that I think. And that's why I wanted to also write the New Rules of Building wealth, because I think that a lot of people in these generations feel financially nihilistic. Like, the world that we've inherited is so messed up, and we're just like, on this floating rock and it's, you know, burning and the economy's so bad and, you know, the government's messed up and, you know, all these things that are so true but can really, like, make it so you feel like the gap is almost too big to close, so why try? And you sort of. It makes people want to opt out of the game because they feel like it's rigged. And this is obviously so dangerous because, you know, and it makes, you know, being supported by a partner look less like a step backwards and more just like a cheat code. But the problem with this cheat code is that it has a major glitch because anyone else holding the purse strings is not financial freedom. So that is financial dependence. And what. Whenever you're financially dependent, it comes with a price. Like, it takes your autonomy, your choices, your identity. I talk about this in the book, that I grew up wealthy, and my parents controlled the money for me until I was making. Until I like, you know, had my financial aha moment and got control of things. But it was, like, made our relationship really complicated. It made me feel horrible about myself. It kept me really small, and it was just like, sort of a dead end. It was a trap. But it was. I was constantly feeding myself these ideas of, like, I can't do it. It's not worth it. Like, I. Money is not for me. So I think that the trad wife thing sort of goes with that. But, like, you also have to remember that we are so privileged, especially as women. Like, we are the first generations who have the. The. The right to choose, the right to say no. Women couldn't even get their own credit cards till 1974. And like really getting married was the only way that women could even access financial stability. So it's just crazy because we fought really hard to not need permission to exist financially and then the trad wife Tre sort of quietly gives that back. But I think that it more comes from this idea of like the world is so messed up, let me just find this way out and not even try something else.
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- [23:38]
Farnoosh Torabi (Interviewer)
This?
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Farnoosh Torabi
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Haley Sachs (Mrs. Dow Jones)
Morgan, Chase bank and a member FDIC
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- [25:33]
Farnoosh Torabi (Interviewer)
Yeah, we are so privileged. So let's honor it and protect it to the best of our abilities. You. You actually recently interviewed on your podcast Financial Tea. I'm loving this podcast of yours. You Lloyd Blankfein on your show. Like, that's a first. Like, I don't think he's ever any interviews. Former CEO of Goldman Sachs. Huge get. You also.
- [25:53]
Haley Sachs (Mrs. Dow Jones)
And he was like, candid too. I feel like he only ever does like Bloomberg.
- [25:56]
Farnoosh Torabi (Interviewer)
Oh my God. Like if ever. Yeah, he's so private. I feel like. And, and yeah, congrats on that get.
- [26:03]
Haley Sachs (Mrs. Dow Jones)
Thank you.
- [26:04]
Farnoosh Torabi (Interviewer)
Yeah. Financial Tea, everybody. Download, subscribe. So you recently interviewed and I just discussed this on so Money. I'm gonna do a whole episode on.
- [26:12]
Haley Sachs (Mrs. Dow Jones)
Oh, you wanna do Bell Burden.
- [26:14]
Farnoosh Torabi (Interviewer)
Bell Burden.
- [26:14]
Haley Sachs (Mrs. Dow Jones)
You gotta cover Bell Burden.
- [26:16]
Farnoosh Torabi (Interviewer)
So kind of tangential to what we were just talking about, which is deferring your financial life to your husband. I mean, talk about that. And I still reading the book. I'm in the middle of it. And at first I wasn't sure if I was going to like the book because it just already. You know, I watched the Oprah interview and I was like, oh my God, this is so cliche. Right? Like, I could tell you the handwriting was on the wall like, you know, tiny violin here. Like, okay, yes. Like, what did we expect? Right? At the same time, I'm really appreciating the subtlety of the book. I feel like how many books are there? Yours, mine, everyone's that tell you like, all the warning signs of giving your money up to someone else and how it's not going to end well. Right. And no one listens. We still have these problems. Society still makes bad decisions about this. They still do the opposite of what we preach. I think this book is really gonna make a difference in the lives of women in the way Anoosh tells the story. Right?
- [27:11]
Haley Sachs (Mrs. Dow Jones)
No, it is. You nailed it. You absolutely nailed it. Because what this book does versus what, like, a straightforward financial book does, where it's like, I mean, you have an audience who is. Their ears are peaked to financial advice. Like, if you're listening to so many, they get. Obviously, yeah, you love Far Nouge, but you're also. You're in the place where you want to be a future rich person. You are like, you're about improving your life in that way. And. But for many people, they're in this cycle of complete avoidance. But what I think is so amazing is that strangers a. I think because of her aristocratic background, like, you know, the same way that everyone loves talking about celebrity, money and pop culture, you know, pop culture things and, you know, rich people. It makes her story much more palatable. Better or worse? Worse. The fact that she does come from this, like, rarefied experience that people admire and sort of aspire to. But it's really a financial memoir. What's so crazy is that it's. I'm finding women in my life who are not financially inclined, read the book, and then it's causing them to reflect. And so it was such a genius thing to put out because it sort of is like, spinach brownie. Brownie with spinach in it. Like, you think that you're getting this juicy divorce memoir about, like, this rich woman who completely messes her life up, and you're like, damn, that couldn't be me. But then when you realize at the end of it is like, wait, I sort of do see myself in this. Like, maybe I am doing some of these things. Like, I've been at baby showers. I've been at birthday parties. I've been at lunches with women. And everyone is talking about this book. It's, like, taking over the culture. So it's so powerful. I'm so, so excited for Belle. I can't wait for the movie to come out. And I agree. I think that she has made a huge difference. And I'm excited to see what you hear. I'm excited to hear what you think about the end.
- [29:04]
Farnoosh Torabi (Interviewer)
Yeah, I mean, went in. I really want to hate the book. I really want. I really?
- [29:09]
Haley Sachs (Mrs. Dow Jones)
Because you just. You don't. You don't like her financial decisions.
- [29:12]
Farnoosh Torabi (Interviewer)
Yeah, I guess I just felt like going in, like, it was a huge eye roll for me. I'm like, oh, my God, here we go again. You know, like, it was old. It was an old story for me. I'm like, yeah, hello. I was like, you're like, duh, you're
- [29:26]
Haley Sachs (Mrs. Dow Jones)
not supposed to do that.
- [29:27]
Farnoosh Torabi (Interviewer)
My God. But I am. I. I wonder. You know, I should probably reach out to her team and get her on the show because I really want to learn how deliberate was she in writing this book to kind of, in her subtle way, tell her audience, don't be me. You know, like, I guess part of it was that I have to say, too women of her aristocratic status, they don't talk about money. You don't talk about. You don't talk about money when you're that rich, right? Like. And boy, does she talk about it. And now go to.
- [30:02]
Haley Sachs (Mrs. Dow Jones)
What's crazy too, is like, you brought up the trad wife thing. Like, when I was talking to Belle, what happened with her was like, basically she went from when she was. Was, you know, under 18, being in control of her father, under control of her father financially, but she had all these trusts to then, like, like, she didn't have this gap between her, like, basically childhood and her marriage, which I. What's really common for women, like, you basically had to go from like, one conservatorship to the next. Right. You know, either, like, your parents are taking care of you or you're married and they're taking care of you, and you were never able to be free.
- [30:35]
Farnoosh Torabi (Interviewer)
Free.
- [30:36]
Haley Sachs (Mrs. Dow Jones)
And that's what's so cool about this, about our generation, is that now, like, whenever I see tick tocks of someone who's like 40, and like, I watched a TikTok this morning of a woman who she was like, I'm 37 and single. And then her, the sound was like, I do whatever I want. I do whatever I want. And like, I was like, you know what? Like, that's sort of so, like, cool. Like, it's like, that's something so new. Like, that is. You know, our grandmas did not get to do that. Like, you know, and so. So with Belle, she's having that financial awakening way later in life. But she got, if you listen to her on my podcast, like, she is holding onto her financial freedom, like, till her knuckles bleed. She will never give up her autonomy again. And she feels how good it. She knows how good it feels. Like, she is Fully a future rich person now and could not value it on a higher plane, which I think is, like, such a testament to, like, why. To even go on this church.
- [31:31]
Farnoosh Torabi (Interviewer)
Yeah.
- [31:31]
Haley Sachs (Mrs. Dow Jones)
Like, I had it myself. Like, it's like. It really is. There is no better feeling than just being in control of your own money, not having to ask anyone for permission, being able to live the life that you want. And what's so crazy is you don't. It doesn't require you to be, like, a math genius to get there or to have. Like. I always thought that I had to be like, one of those girls with perfect handwriting. You know, I'm very type B for Noosh. Like, I don't know if you can tell it was three minutes late towards Zoom, but, like, I'm very much. Like, I have an assistant who really keeps my life on track. Love her, Fran, But I almost feel like sometimes she's my babysitter because she's like, did you eat? Like, what's the. Like, you know, like, I need. I'm a creative at my core. Like, I. But, you know, I thought because of that that I was just not. I was. Money was not for me. Then I had to be this other version of myself in order to have financial success and be in control of my finances. But what you realize is, like, it doesn't have to be this really intense, boring thing that, like, keeps you, like, deprives your life. Life. It can be something that's, like, powerful and also, most importantly. And I talk about this in the book Automated. Like, my book is all about creating systems. Because, girl, like, I. I talk about that financial energy. Like, even the financial energy of managing your finances, like, that is a big lift. You need to have systems in place so that if you have days where you're just human and you really, really, really don't want to do it, you're not gonna end up paying a late fee or not investing that month or. Or, you know, like, whatever the thing is, not saving for your emergency fund. Like, you need to have all these systems in place.
- [33:06]
Farnoosh Torabi (Interviewer)
You know, what book we still need in the personal finance world, or a memoir, perhaps, and maybe Bell's book did it. But we need to write to all the Henrys, her husband Henry, who took advantage of her conscientiously, all these finance bruhs, right, who come in and they're like, we're going to protect you. We're going to protect you financially and blah, blah, blah, but secretly and. And deviously are calculatingly planning for their exit and protecting their bank this happens so often, right? Like, the guy who comes in and is like, I'm gonna be your financial savior. Trust me.
- [33:42]
Haley Sachs (Mrs. Dow Jones)
And keeping them down. Keeping down. That's the trad wife thing.
- [33:46]
Farnoosh Torabi (Interviewer)
So. So who's the guy who's telling these guys? That's not right. And how do we get.
- [33:53]
Haley Sachs (Mrs. Dow Jones)
I don't know if it's a guy that tells. I mean, yes, it's good. Yes, they need. They need someone to tell them. But I think it's also just so much more about women having the confidence and the knowledge to just say no, to. Not ever let that happen.
- [34:09]
Event Promoter
Yeah.
- [34:09]
Haley Sachs (Mrs. Dow Jones)
I have a friend who married a guy. He is the heir to, like, the Chelsea Piers fortune. And. And so they have family. He has family, money, me. And she works. He doesn't really work that much. And. But she really doesn't know what's going on with the finances. And she read that book, and it really struck her, and she was like, shoot, like, I really need to figure this out. And so I was sitting with her, and I was like, okay, Danny, take out your. And I do this all the time, people, right? Like, Mrs. Dow Jones will tell me their financial secrets every day. I'm a. I have, like, HIPAA code with everyone. I never say anything. Like, it's. It's very normal for me to see people's bank accounts and all of that. So I was like, okay. And I've known this girl since I was, you know, eight years old, nine years old old. So I was like, okay, give me your credit. Give me your phone. Like, let's go through it together. Like, I'm gonna sit with you. Like, let's, like, look through it, whatever. And she froze. She would not do it. She literally was, like, you know, stuck in place. It was. She got actually, like, sort of angry at me for asking. Not because I think she was, like, embarrassed to show me anything, but just because she had this huge block up against it. And so I think it's less about, like, not to say that he's taking advantage of her, of her, but, like, her as a microcosm of, like, a woman who is, you know, stuck in. It's actually. It's called the ostrich syndrome, because when ostriches are scared, they don't run away. They just stick their head in the sand and wait for things to pass. And so I think that a lot of us do that when it comes to our finances. I mean, my friend certainly was. But you're never going to get anywhere that way.
- [35:43]
Farnoosh Torabi (Interviewer)
No. Wow. All right.
- [35:46]
Haley Sachs (Mrs. Dow Jones)
To close Bruce talk about Bell Burden the whole time. No, I. Guys, I have a book out too.
- [35:51]
Farnoosh Torabi (Interviewer)
You have a book out too? It's called Future Rich Person.
- [35:55]
Haley Sachs (Mrs. Dow Jones)
Rich person.
- [35:56]
Farnoosh Torabi (Interviewer)
The, the, this concept of rich, I feel like it's, it's a personal definition. How do you want people to think about wealth these days? Because I feel like only recently have we been talking about mental health as part of wealth and wellness as part of wealth and our relationships and our resources as part of our wealth as our vault of wealth. And so not just the money. So talk a little bit about, you know, when you're telling people to pursue wealth, the money and richness, you know, what is it that you want them to think about?
- [36:30]
Haley Sachs (Mrs. Dow Jones)
Yeah, well, yeah, I think the old rule of building wealth was really just looking at as like this number, like this sort of like destination that you arrive at, like you're going to retire at 65 with enough saved and you win. And it's like predictable. But the new rule of building wealth is to look at it as a tool instead of a trophy. Because the point was really never the number number. It's what the number buys you. Does it give you options? Does it give you freedom? Does it give you the ability to say yes to what matters to you and know to what doesn't? Like if you are chasing a number without knowing what it's for, then you're just gonna hit it and feel nothing. So I do think that being a future rich person, but it is about being well resourced but well lived. But I don't think that it is fair also to say that it's not urgent to have money, despite the fact that future rich person might not mean, okay, just this number in your bank account, that you also have great relationships, you're able to travel, you can pursue your health, all of these things. But if you don't have money, money might not buy happiness, but it sure gets rid of a lot of sadness and it buys you the ability to take care of yourself and it buys you convenience and time and flexibility and mental health and healthy food and all these things that contribute to living a good life. And so you can't really downplay how important it is to have money. But I do think that, you know, it's important to remember too that it's. If you're, you don't want to be a lonely billionaire, right? Like I would, I would rather have. I think it's a lot harder to have some of, a lot of things than it is to have a lot of one. And they talk about that in the book. And that being said, I will also say this book, what makes it really different than other finance books besides the fact that it is made for these modern days? There's a lot in there about AI and I about like how to really meet the moment right now and build wealth. Cause yes, there are still opportunities to build wealth, even if the media doesn't want you to think that is all of the storytelling. So I have all these amazing interviews with real followers that are like, super juicy. I share a lot about my life growing up on the Upper east side, you know, with wealthy parents, how they didn't teach me anything about money, which is sort of like Bell Verdany in a way. Like, you know, there's a certain escapism to hearing about that that I think is that spinach and the brownie and then also so much celebrity money story too. So everyone who's read it has actually read it. Like they've like finished the book, which is all that I wanted was to create like a page turner of a finance book that, you know, you are compelled to actually keep reading instead of just having aspirationally on your desk. And I think we really succeeded. So I really hope that your audience checks it out and that they love it.
- [39:19]
Farnoosh Torabi (Interviewer)
We will definitely check it out. And I'm also going to put in the show notes, the link to your first time on so Money. When you talked about a little bit of your upbringing as well as your time working for Lorne Michaels. You were his assistant.
- [39:33]
Haley Sachs (Mrs. Dow Jones)
No, so I work. I was a created social producer. So I was actually like creating content for him. It was like that age of college humor. So basically Sanel had like their version of that website and I was hired to be like one of the. There were like two of us that were hired and the other person who was hired is now on snl.
- [39:54]
Farnoosh Torabi (Interviewer)
Amaz. Okay, well, like so many great stories. You. You really deliver. I love, I have to say, like, I. You're just fun to watch. And that is so important. It's not a small thing. Like, we need all the brownies. We need all the brownies.
- [40:10]
Haley Sachs (Mrs. Dow Jones)
We need so many brownies. You need. I love a brownie. I want to get a brownie today.
- [40:14]
Farnoosh Torabi (Interviewer)
You've earned it. Haley Sachs.
- [40:16]
Haley Sachs (Mrs. Dow Jones)
Earned it, girl. Yes. And you have to text me when you're done with strangers. I want to hear what you think.
- [40:20]
Farnoosh Torabi (Interviewer)
Oh, yeah, I will. I will for sure. Haley Sachs, thank you so much.
- [40:23]
Haley Sachs (Mrs. Dow Jones)
Thanks you so much.
- [40:25]
Farnoosh Torabi (Interviewer)
Bye for
- [40:28]
Farnoosh Torabi
thanks to Haley Sachs, Mrs. Dow Jones, for joining us. Her book Future rich person is out this week. I'll see you back here on Friday for Ask Farnouche. You can send in your questions by emailing me Farnouchsomoneypodcast.com DMing me on Instagram at farnoushtarabi. I hope your day is so money.
- [41:01]
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Lost Travelers
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Lost Travelers
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Haley Sachs (Mrs. Dow Jones)
And.
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