1994: What Does Childcare Actually Cost?

Summary

Podcast Summary: So Money with Farnoosh Torabi

Episode 1994: What Does Childcare Actually Cost?
Date: June 10, 2026
Host: Farnoosh Torabi (with guest host Lindsay Stanberry)
Guests:

• Corinne Lowe, Economist at the Wharton School and author of Having It All
• Lindsay Stanberry, Journalist and creator of Family Money podcast with Babylist

---

Overview

This episode of So Money (featuring a takeover by Lindsay Stanberry) dives deep into the true costs of childcare in the US and offers a practical, candid conversation about how families can approach, plan for, and reframe this major expense. Through expert insights from economist Corinne Lowe and actionable advice from Farnoosh Torabi, the episode moves beyond sticker shock to explore childcare as an investment in family well-being, career continuity, and wealth-building.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Rising Cost of Childcare: Context & Long-Term Trends

• Lindsay, Corinne, and Farnoosh highlight that the cost of childcare is now comparable to a mortgage in many states (04:36).
• Corinne: “The cost of daycare has skyrocketed. And the reason for that is it’s not an apples-to-apples comparison in terms of what you’re getting... The quality and standards for quality childcare have actually increased a lot over time.” (06:18)
• Regulatory shifts now require lower caregiver-to-child ratios, more hands-on care, and less reliance on screens, all of which drive up costs (07:08).

2. The Challenge of "Childcare Deserts"

— particularly in rural areas

• Many parents face an actual lack of available options and must grapple with limited infrastructure, sometimes leading to the default of one parent (often the mother) staying home (07:37).
• Corinne: "Then there are the fall in intergenerational households... Now, grandparents often need care themselves, rather than being able to provide it." (07:56)

3. Strategies for Multiple Kids and Time-Bound Planning

• Families need to consider cost-scaling, spacing of children, and local programs (like universal Pre-K), as costs may spike for a defined, time-limited period (08:39).
• Corinne: “If you step outside the labor force... the loss of the investment in your human capital is going to add up to way more than just your salary in that single year.” (09:46)
• Visualizing childcare as a temporary but crucial investment, not a permanent drag, can be empowering (10:48).

4. Reframing Childcare as an Investment

• Corinne introduces the idea of "human capital": time spent advancing your career now pays off as “permanent income” over a lifetime (11:57).
• Outsourcing, such as grocery delivery, can be similarly reframed—not as wasteful but as a strategic use of resources (12:29).
• The guilt associated with outsourcing “female-coded” tasks versus “male-coded” tasks is challenged (12:31).

---

Types of Childcare and Real Costs (w/Farnoosh Torabi)

1. Mainstream Options & Typical Budgets

[13:30–16:06]

• Daycare Centers: $1,500–$2,500/month, varying by region.
• In-home Daycare: 10–30% cheaper, sometimes trading off certification or scale.
• Nannies: $20–$35/hour per child; also must account for overtime, taxes, and benefits.
• Nanny Shares: Can halve costs but require coordination and trust with another family.
• Au Pair: About $200/week stipend plus living/cultural arrangements and compliance with work hour regulations.
• Grandparent/Family Help: Sometimes “free” in financial terms—but may involve other tradeoffs.

2. Tradeoffs & Family Fit

• Lindsay and Farnoosh emphasize the complexity of choosing care—every option involves pros, cons, and personal values, from emotional comfort to flexibility (16:45).
• Farnoosh: “Ask about turnover rate… flexibility… What happens if my kid gets sick? What if I’m running late from work?” (16:45–17:10)
• Emotional hurdles (first day drop-off) are acknowledged and validated (16:06).

3. Nanny Employment Complexities

[17:18–19:48]

• Payroll services help ease complexities (W-2s, social security, taxes).
• Ancillary costs: paid time off, vacation, possible need for backup care.
• Farnoosh: “This person is taking care of your most precious person... set up an infrastructure that supports that for everybody.” (17:55)
• Nanny becomes part of the family—"not all households view it that way, and I wish they would." (19:33)

---

Financial Tactics & Mistakes

1. Flexible Spending Accounts (FSA)—Dependent Care

[23:39–24:32]

• Up to $5,000/year pre-tax for eligible childcare expenses.
• Use-it-or-lose-it—plan carefully to avoid losing funds.

2. Relationship & Communication First

• Farnoosh: “First, have a conversation with your partner—how can we optimize our schedules before we outsource and pay for childcare?” (24:46)
• Adjusting work hours and creative tag-teaming can sometimes reduce paid hours required (25:40).
• Importance of active communication and not assuming employer inflexibility.

3. The “Mother Pays for Childcare” Fallacy

[27:01–29:38]

• Both Lindsay and Farnoosh strongly critique the notion that only the mother’s income should “cover” the cost of care.
• Farnoosh: “It’s unfair... It’s essentially saying that the entirety of child rearing and child caring is a mother’s responsibility.” (27:11)
• Viewing childcare as a family investment akin to higher education or homeownership.

4. Financial Flexibility & Replanning

• Childcare needs—and costs—change over time; continually reassess and adapt the plan.
• Farnoosh: “You don’t have to create this forever plan for childcare. It’s malleable.” (30:52)

---

Saving Money & Community Solutions

[32:29–34:53]

• Nanny Shares: Major saving potential (up to 50%).
• Informal swaps and community trust are crucial in emergencies and to provide flexibility.
• Some families are returning to multigenerational households or buying homes with an extra bedroom for potential grandparent help.
• The “scarcity mindset” among parents—worried about sharing childcare resources or advice—is gently challenged (34:01).

---

Memorable Quotes & Notable Moments

• Corinne Lowe: “If you don’t save a single cent other than your 401k match when you have kids who are daycare aged, I’m fine with that... This period passes.” (10:48)
• Farnoosh Torabi: “Don’t allow this back of the napkin math that is genderist to force you out of the workforce.” (02:41 and 29:21)
• Farnoosh: “Childcare is an investment—like your student loans are an investment... but we’re not willing to hire someone or drop our child off at a daycare facility.” (28:38)

---

Takeaways and Action Items

• Reframe childcare: Don’t see it as a waste—see it as an investment in your family’s present and future.
• Temporary but pivotal: The high cost is real but time-limited—plan for it as a family, and prioritize communication.
• Know your options: From daycare to au pairs to family care, critically assess what matches your values and resources.
• Diversify solutions: Consider community swaps, nanny shares, and leaning on extended family.
• Maximize benefits: Use employer FSA options, and don’t leave “free” money on the table.
• Budget from ground zero: Adding a child isn’t just a new expense—it’s a complete realignment of family priorities and money.

---

Suggested Listening Points (Timestamps)

• [04:31] “The cost of childcare is insane”—opening discussion of the cost crisis
• [06:18–07:24] Why costs are increasing—regulatory changes and higher standards
• [08:39–10:03] Strategies for multiple kids and time-bound financial planning
• [11:57–12:45] Outsourcing as an investment; gendered expectations
• [13:30–16:06] Breakdown of real childcare options and costs
• [17:18–19:48] Nanny employment, payroll, and ancillary costs
• [23:39–24:32] Dependent care FSA discussion
• [24:46–26:58] The importance of proactive, collaborative planning with partners
• [27:01–29:38] Why childcare should be considered a household, not a “mom’s” expense
• [32:29–34:01] Saving through nanny shares and community support

---

Tone and Spirit

The episode excels in blending empathy, candor, and practical money wisdom—never shying away from the tough realities, but always pushing listeners to think bigger, plan smarter, and shake off guilt and limiting beliefs about money, careers, and parenting.

---

“Your lifestyle will change and your priorities will shift. And guess what? You’ll be happy to do it because kids will change your life in a beautiful way... We are telling you this because people told us this. Right? And then here we are telling an audience the same thing.”
— Lindsay Stanberry and Farnoosh Torabi (36:41–37:03)

Transcript

[Lindsay Stanberry]

Hey friends, if you've been sitting on a book idea and wondering, could this actually become something? This is your moment. Join me in New York City on October 9th for book to Brand. This is my intimate full day immersive designed to help you turn your idea into a clear, compelling pitch ready book concept. You will meet the insiders, agents, publishers and recent authors who can help bring your book to life. Spots are limited and early bird tickets are on sale now. Head to BooktoBrand Co to reserve your spot.

Par le tu francais hablas espanol Parle italiano?

[Babbel Advertiser]

If you've used Babbel, you would Babbel's conversation based technique teaches you useful words and phrases to get you speaking quickly about the things you actually talk about in the real world. With lessons handcrafted by over 200 language experts and voiced by real native speakers, Babbel is like having a private tutor in your pocket. Start speaking with Babbel today. Get up to 55% off your Babbel subscription right now at babbel.com acast spelled B-A B B E L.com acast rules and restrictions may apply.

[Chase Sapphire Reserve Advertiser]

This is a vacation with Chase Sapphire Reserve the butler who knows your name. This is the robe, the view, the steam from your morning coffee. This is the complimentary breakfast on the balcony, the beach with no one else on it. This is the Edit, a collection of handpicked luxury hotels you can access with Chase Sapphire Reserve and a $500 edit credit that gets you closer to all of it. Chase Sapphire Reserve now even more rewarding.

[Lindsay Stanberry]

Learn [e-mail] Sapphire Reserve cards issued by

[Discover Advertiser]

JPMorgan Chase bank and a member FDIC subject to credit approval it's smart to always have a few financial goals and a really smart one. You can set earning cash back on what you buy every day. And with Discover you can get this Discover automatically matches all the cash back you've earned at the end of your first year. Seriously, all of it. And we trust you to make smart decisions. After all, you listen to this show. See [e-mail] Credit Card

[Lindsay Stanberry]

so Money Episode

1994 what does child care actually cost?

[Farnoosh Torabi]

You're listening to so Money with award winning money guru Farnoosh Torabi. Each day get a 30 minute dose of financial inspiration from the world's top business minds, authors, influencers and from Farnoosh yourself for ways to save on gas or double your double coupons. Sorry, you're in the wrong place seeking profound ways to live a richer, happier life. Welcome to so Money.

[Lindsay Stanberry]

There's nothing wrong with stepping out of the workforce. No, I'm just saying that don't allow this back of the napkin math that is genderist to force you out of the workforce.

That's how. That's. I think that that's the thing is to consider it as a family expense. The big picture.

Hey, so money, family, something special in your feed Today, my friend Lindsay Stanberry

is taking over with an episode of

Family Money, which is her new podcast series with Babylist.

Through her company called the Purse, Lindsay has been covering women, work and money

for over a decade.

And what she's building here is exactly

the kind of honest and practical conversation that families need and almost nobody is having.

Well, and yes, I'm in this one.

The episode is called what Does Child Care actually Cost? And it does exactly what it says.

Lindsay talks with economist Corrine Lowe, who's been on this show, and she's an

associate professor at the Wharton School and

author of the USA Today bestseller Having It All. Who reframes childcare not as a money pit, but as an investment in your

time, your career, and your family's future? And then I come on to walk through the real numbers. I'm talking daycare centers, nanny shares, au

pairs in home care, the grandparent option.

Nobody talks about enough.

And what each one actually costs and

how to figure out what's right for your family. We also get into something that drives

me nuts, and that is this idea that childcare costs come out of the mother's salary.

Well, they don't. They come out of your family's future. And once you see it that way,

I think everything changes. If you're expecting, if you're deep in

the daycare years or you're just trying to get ahead of it, this episode is for you.

And give family money and the purse a follow. Wherever you listen and read, Lindsay is doing incredible work.

The cost of childcare is insane.

It's crazy.

[Corinne Lowe]

The cost of daycare has skyrocketed.

[Lindsay Stanberry]

It's as much as a mortgage in most states. And you're like, is my child getting a PhD?

Don't allow this back of the napkin math to force you out of the workforce. You know, you can be smart about it, you can be strategic about it. You can change the plan.

It's really important when you decide to have a kid to start doing research and understanding how all the different options work. And how do you choose what's best for your family? That's what we're talking about today. First up, we're talking to Corinne Lowe. Corinne is an economist at the Wharton School of Business. She wrote this great book, Having it all, where she reframes the cost of childcare and what it really means to spend all this money. You're not just throwing away money. It's an investment in your time, in your career, in your family. And when you begin to look at it that way, you feel better about it. It can be so empowering to shift narrative from it being a cost burden on the mom to being a family expense that everyone benefits from. I'm Lindsey Stanberry, and this is Family Money. I've been interviewing people about their money stories for more than a decade, and I've been a mom for just about as long. Needless to say, I have lots of thoughts on kids and money. You really talk about how women tend to feel uncomfortable talking about money. Why do you think that is? It's scary, right? I hear from people who want to have kids all the time. How do you actually afford to have a kid? But that's why we're here. That's what we're doing with family money. We're offering you advice and tips and tricks, and you're going to hear from amazing experts to help put you at ease. Welcome to Family Money. I'd love to talk with you about the cost of childcare, which is really overwhelming. Why are we seeing childcare costs increase so much?

[Corinne Lowe]

There's a lot of forces right now that are driving that. I mean, one is just inflation in general. One is the shortages that we had coming out of the pandemic. And then there were some subsidies in the pandemic that are now exposed and so really have been putting the squeeze on parents. But there was actually a longer term trend at play, which is that the cost of childcare has long been outpacing inflation. And the reason for that is that it's not an apples to apples comparison in terms of what you're getting is that the quality of childcare and the standards for quality childcare have actually increased a lot over time. So if you go back to the 1980s, it was perfectly acceptable to have 20, 30 kids, babies in their little cribs and you hand them bottles assembly line style. It was perfectly acceptable to have the toddlers in front of the TV at the daycare center.

[Lindsay Stanberry]

That was my upbringing, was sitting in front of Mrs. Weddle's TV watching Sesame street and.

[Corinne Lowe]

Exactly. That's a lot cheaper because it's much less hands on. Right. Whereas if you think about the childcare that, like, we want for our children Right now, but in fact is actually the regulatory standard in many states. Right. It's that four to one infant to caregiver ratio. It's the hands on care. It's not having screens.

[Lindsay Stanberry]

Right.

[Corinne Lowe]

It's you know, active outdoor time. And that's more expensive to provide. So the product itself change. But the problem is that doesn't create a lot of options for parents who maybe don't earn enough to cover that enormous cost.

[Lindsay Stanberry]

One thing that I think is really interesting is this idea of childcare deserts, especially in rural communities where there just isn't that infrastructure. How does that impact pricing and what parents are doing those childcare deserts, you

[Corinne Lowe]

know, it's those parents that then are being left without options. Some of those families are saying like, well, we don't really have a good option, an option we feel comfortable with.

[Lindsay Stanberry]

Right.

[Corinne Lowe]

So does it make sense for mom just to stay home? And then the other force is like the fall in intergenerational households and the generations spreading out. Where we go from having grandparents as people who are nearby and providing care to often they're far away, but now generations spread out. Grandparents need care, right. Rather than providing the input of care.

[Lindsay Stanberry]

It's interesting. My grandparents live far away when I was growing up, but my parents live here now and are very active.

[Corinne Lowe]

Oh, you are so blessed. I know.

[Lindsay Stanberry]

I am so lucky. And I often think it's my mom. It's like she's responding to the struggle that she had. She saw how hard it was for her. Why we were always at Mrs. Weddle's house. I'm curious, you know, one kid expensive, two kids very expensive.

[Corinne Lowe]

When you're adding additional kids, you have to think about what costs are going to scale and what costs aren't going to scale. And then you also have to think about like timing and child spacing with your budget. Right. Because if you live someplace that has universal pre K, right. Then you've just got three years that you've got to get through. So do you actually want to have that three year child spacing so you're getting one set of daycare fees off your budget before another one comes in? Or do you want to consider a form of childcare that might be too expensive when you have just one kid, but that doesn't, the cost doesn't scale when you add a second kid. And so I think you have to start thinking about potentially different solutions when you're thinking about multiple kids instead of just one. Or you really think about the timing so that you're able to not have Both of those hitting at the same time. But even if you do hit that crunch where you have one year, where you have two daycare fees at the same time, and then you say, well, this is more than my salary, should I even be working? That is the wrong math. Okay. Because that is one year. And if you step outside the labor force. Right. The loss of the investment in your human capital is going to add up to way more than just your salary in that single year. Right?

[Lindsay Stanberry]

Yeah.

[Corinne Lowe]

So I think we have to understand the same way, like when a kid goes to college and if you have two kids who are in college at the same time, you're like, this is impossible, but it's time bound. Right. So if you happen to have daycare that you have to pay for two kids, you know, in a single year, what can you do to pull resources into that period?

[Lindsay Stanberry]

Right.

[Corinne Lowe]

So you hold off on upgrading the car. But I think the key thing is thinking about your financial planning over a longer time horizon. And so I am not in favor of like high interest consumer debt. I'm going to be the scoldy economist is going to say, you know, like we like no credit card debt. Like that is. And also you have to be maxing out your 401k match because that's free money. But once you're doing that, once you don't have the credit card debt and once you're maxing out your 401k match. Now when you're in this period that I call the squeeze, where your kids are young and they're expensive in both time and money, it's okay to do other things that aren't how you want to live long term to get through this period.

[Lindsay Stanberry]

Right.

[Corinne Lowe]

So if you don't save a single cent other than your 401k match, when you have kids who are daycare aged, I'm fine with that. I'm not going to scold you about that. Right. If you, you know, finance, but at low interest rates, some things that you typically wouldn't want to finance, some larger purchases like home improvements, again, I'm fine with that. Right?

[Lindsay Stanberry]

Yeah.

[Corinne Lowe]

Because this period passes. But you've gotta make sure to get back on that financial wagon when your kid, your youngest kid, goes to pre K or kindergarten. Whenever you stop paying for childcare, I want you to put that date on your calendar and that's the start saving and start investing again date. Okay. So you have a date with yourself to get your house back in order. Because the issue is it often becomes like a slippery slope where you're like, okay, we took debt to do this, and now we're just going to kind of keep doing that. So it is a limited period of time, but you've got to hold it to that limited period.

[Lindsay Stanberry]

You do such a good job of talking about this, about childcare being an investment in your future self. And. And then a lot of other things that I think parents need, which is like home help and even small things like grocery delivery, that those kinds of investments and reframing it is not a waste of money, but like something that really is helpful.

[Corinne Lowe]

I think you said it exactly right. It's like it is an investment in your human capital because time that you're able to spend on your career that's building what economists call your permanent income, which is that we think about everything you're able to earn over your entire lifetime, not just in this moment. And so I tell people to reframe outsourcing a little bit. As if you're not outsourcing something, you are hiring yourself to do it and asking if in this moment, does it make sense to hire yourself for that job? And if you're at an inflection point in your career, you should not be hiring yourself for extra jobs.

[Lindsay Stanberry]

Around the house.

Order the groceries.

[Corinne Lowe]

Yes. And I also point out to people that families take their car to the mechanic to get the oil change, because we don't think twice. We don't blank when it's a male coded task that we need to outsource, but when it's a female coded task, then comes the guilt and the feeling that we should just be able to do it ourselves.

[Lindsay Stanberry]

Yeah. That's amazing. I think that's a great place to stop. Corinne, it's been so lovely. It's so much fun to chat with you about all these things, and I cannot recommend your book enough. It's so fantastic. Thank you so much. Let's take a quick break and we'll be right back. Corinne did a really wonderful job giving us a. A big picture overview of just how expensive childcare is and how we need to reframe it as an investment. But you have to pay for it, right? You have to choose it. So I invited my friend Farnoosh Tarabi, who's a financial expert, to really walk us through all the different kinds of childcare available, what it costs, and how to decide what's available to you and what you want to spend your money on. And we're back. Hi, Farnoosh. So happy to have you here today.

Hi, Lindsay. It's so Great to be here.

Can we kind of walk through the different kinds of childcare options?

Sure. So daycare centers are very popular option. A lot of families opt into this. So depending on where you live, it can be anywhere from $1,500 to $2,500 a month. From there it could be an at home daycare center where there might be more flexibility. It's anywhere from 10 to 30% more affordable. But in some cases those facilities may not be as certified. Maybe it's like a trusted neighbor, a family member perhaps who's running a business. And then there are options like and grandparents. That's at maybe the free level. Between the daycare center and the free level. There's also nannies and at home caregivers. Right. That's actually the premium.

Right, that's the premium.

That's the premium.

You get a nanny, but then there's nanny shares.

Absolutely.

Which introduces a whole set of different challenges and financial opportunities.

Absolutely. I've heard of this in cities. You know, it's for people who have vertical living, very convenient people on your floor or in your building to share an at home caregiver. It's not all, but you know, it's always trade offs. It's all these trade offs. But the cost of an at home caregiver can be anywhere from 20 to $35 an hour per child. Of course, you also have to consider things like overtime.

Right. When you have a nanny, it's like you're hiring an employee.

Right. There's another option which is aupair, which sounds very fancy. When I was growing up, it's sort of like I thought it was reserved just for the elite and the rich people. But you know, I have several friends who choose this option. And what it is essentially is hiring through an agenc, a young adult, someone who's usually 18 to 25 years old. They live overseas. They're looking for an American cultural experience.

Right.

They come and live with you for usually up to two years. Or like as a mother's helper, a family helper.

Yeah.

They make about $200 a week stipend. The catch is, of course, you have to have a comfortable place for them to stay in your home, a dedicated space.

Right.

You're providing lodgings and food. Sometimes you need to give them access to your car.

[Corinne Lowe]

Right.

[Lindsay Stanberry]

To be able to take your kids around. And they work strict like what, 35, 40 hours a week. Right. You have to give them the time off to do other things.

They're not on call all the time for You.

Exactly. So that works for some families, it doesn't for others. So there's a spectrum of options, a spectrum of affordable options. And then of course, there's parents who give up their careers and their jobs temporarily or forever to be home with their families.

So, I mean, it feels like every option sort of has its pros and cons, its costs, you know, the good and the bad. With a nanny with an au pair, you're inviting them into your home, the daycare center. I remember dropping my son off when he was a baby. We used a really lovely in home daycare center. But that first day was just, I think, one of the worst days of my life, life being away. And it felt like he was with strangers and he was so tiny. But in the end, the last day, when it was his last day in the daycare center, and I cried. I was losing, like a best friend because we had grown so close to them. So choosing that is like a really big deal.

Yeah. And I would say other things to consider when you're choosing, let's say a daycare center is to ask them about turnover rate.

That's a good one.

You know, how often are families coming and going? How flexible are you? What happens if my kid gets sick? What happens if I'm running late from work? What if I need to do an early drop off? Because for families we know, like, flexibility, time is everything. Sometimes in those.

In that first year, it really is. And the time money question pops up all the time. When you become a parent who works outside the home.

Exactly.

Even a parent who inside the home.

For sure.

It's a lot. It's a lot. Let's talk a little bit about nannies and. Because it's complicated, Right. It's not about, like, Venmo Ing them at the end of the week. There's often rules and laws around how you pay them and if you're paying them, Social Security and benefits. And I've followed so many chains where the nanny gets sick and needs surgery and then you're paying for a nanny and a backup nanny because they need healthcare benefits. So I'm just curious, like, what are all the different things that people should consider?

Right. You're an employer, essentially, and this person is working in your home.

Yes.

And this person is taking care of your most precious person, most important. Right. And so let's think about that. Let's sort of like sit with that.

Okay.

I think that's really important for families to sort of lead with that in mind and set up an infrastructure that supports that for everybody. And with that, I think it's really important to set up a financial system that supports the household and the employee, the nanny. So we use an online payroll service. There are many of them. In the long run, the cost is not big, you know, for what they provide, it's automatic W2 statements at the end of the year, which allows the nanny to file their taxes quite simply. And for you also to have that documentation for your tax visit, they also will deduct out of that their Medicare and their Social Security and all the appropriate taxes. So do you want to do that?

No, I do not.

Be my guest. I don't want to do that stuff. So the payroll services takes care of that. The cost again is nominal compared to the time that it saves you the stress. And ultimately it's work. Right. That you don't have to do. I would also say that the cost that you want to consider as well, the ancillary cost, right. It's not just the hourly wage. There's also overtime. You're paying for their vacation, their pto. And you want to have a backup plan, right. In the event that they do need to have a surgery or they want to take an extra vacation or life happens.

It does.

And I remember one year our caregiver, she won an award and it was going to be overseas.

Oh my goodness.

And she already used up her pto. Like, am I going to get in the way of her going overseas? No, of course not. Right. And again, this goes back to this person becomes sort of part of your family. I think not all households view it that way and I think I wish they would.

If you're building wealth, growing your career or running a business, every dollar matters. That's why more entrepreneurs and small business owners are turning to Walmart business. Whether you're stocking up on office essentials, supplies for your team or everyday business needs, Walmart business helps you save money with everyday low prices on an ever expanding assortment of products. And in today's economy, finding smart ways to cut costs without sacrificing convenience can make a real difference. Plus, with fast, reliable shipping and fulfillment, you can keep your operations running smoothly without the hassle. I also love the flexibility. You can shop online, in store or right from the Walmart business app whenever it works for you. And if you manage a team, their multi user accounts and expense management tools make purchasing a whole lot easier. Bottom line, Walmart business helps simplify the day to day so you can focus on growing for the long term. It's Walmart built for your business Sign up for a free Walmart business account [e-mail] Summer always makes me rethink about the clothes I'm reaching for every day. I want pieces that feel lighter, easier, more elevated without trying too hard. And honestly, that's why I keep coming back to Quince. They have these beautiful high quality essentials breathable linen, soft organic cotton and washable silk but without the luxury markup. I've recently bought two summer bags from Quince that I've already been carrying non stop their Italian hand woven leather mini shoulder bag and the Italian suede saddle bag. They look incredibly luxe, but at Quinn's prices, everything at quince is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. They work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middle woman so you're paying for quality, not brand markup. I'm also eyeing their European linen pants and dresses which started just $32. Their denim is soft and easy to wear and the organic cotton sweaters are perfect for layering on cooler summer nights. Elevate your summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com sewmoney for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U I N C-E.com so money for free shipping and 365 day return Burns quince.com Somoney I'll be honest, nothing tests my patience quite like sitting on hold listening to the same four bars of music on repeat. Turns out all that time adds up. The average person spends over 40 days listening to that dreaded hold music. 40 days. This episode is sponsored by Parloa, the agentic CX platform built to turn customer conversations into lasting loyalty. Parloa's AI agents run 24. 7 across voice, chat and email in any language with ultra low latency enterprise grade security and seamless integrations into your existing systems. Cross turn memory means every customer is recognized across every interaction. No repeating, no restarting. The world's biggest brands trust Parloa because they know that at enterprise scale, exceptional customer service can't be a goal. It has to be a given. See Parloa's AI agents in action at parloa.com that's P A R L O A.com

[Contentful Advertiser]

marketers. You know that feeling when your creative clicks, when that social post sends engagement through the roof, when your outside of the box campaign hits ROI positive. When a personalized homepage turns prospects into customers. It's utter marketing bliss. Contentful helps you create tailored omnichannel experiences without working overtime. No stress, no limits, only possibilities. Get the [e-mail]

[Lindsay Stanberry]

because the more you. You do, I think, the better the relationship runs for everybody.

Yeah, definitely.

That's my pov.

Yeah, that's. I. That makes sense. So we were talking a little bit about taxes. There's fsa, Dependent Care, which sort of takes a little bit of the edge off.

So essentially, these are provided through your employer. It's an account where annually you can take about $5,000 pre tax. It's deducted from your taxable income. You throw it into this account and you can use it for childcare expenses. It's kind of a use it or lose it. In some cases it is. You kind of have to read your guidelines with your employer. And to your point, it kind of takes a little bit of the burden off.

Yeah. It's not a cure all.

Not a cure all. But hey, if it's offered, I would change just sort of ahead of time. Be aware of what your costs are.

Yeah.

You know, don't max it out if you don't have to, because then you might lose that money.

Yeah. We used it to pay for summer camps.

Yeah. Summer camps count, obviously. Daycare, all sorts of care.

Yes. What financial mistakes have you seen people make when setting up childcare?

Well, I think it is not. First having a conversation with your partner.

Yeah.

About how can we as a household optimize our time and our schedules so that we can then go and figure out what puzzle pieces we need to outsource and pay for via childcare.

[Corinne Lowe]

Right.

[Lindsay Stanberry]

Instead of what a lot of couples do, which is like, I'm working these hours before the baby comes, and you're working these hours before the baby comes. Heretofore.

Yeah.

We need to find all this childcare. And look, that may still be the case once your child arrives, but we don't even stop to think that maybe our employer is willing to be more flexible with us once our family grows and we can say, hey, can we have more work from home time? Could we adjust our daytime hours? Could I go to work later in the morning and come home? You know, so my husband and I, for example, when we first had our son, we hired a nanny and she was working eight hours a day, which actually isn't a lot.

It's not.

It turns out I thought that was. I was like eight hours a week. That's fantastic. And turns out you work more than eight hours a day. So eight to four was the schedule. And I didn't really get my day going until 10 and I would sort of be working until 6 and then my husband would leave around 9 and get home around 5 and my nanny was out the door by 4. So I was left with a baby at 4 o', clock, but still had maybe phone calls and you know, all sorts of things. So about three months into that I had a conversation with my husband. I was like, look, is there a way where you could come home at four and the nanny leaves at four so you and I can kind of strategize at that time to figure out who is going to caregive? Maybe it is me, maybe it is you, but it's always me every day right now. And it's kind of taking from my ability to finish work. And then I'm silly to think that at 8 o' clock when we put him down that I can go back to work. So he went to his job and asked, hey, could I come into work even earlier and leave earlier? And they said sure. So that allowed us to not have to get extra childcare, rather just adjust his hours so that we could be home together and sort of tag team with the baby.

Yeah, the tag teaming and the communication is so key as well.

It's so key.

Can we talk about one of my big money pet peeves? This idea that it's the mother's income that covers the childcare.

Oh my God. I like to think of it as the household income.

Me too.

It's unfair. It's essentially saying that the entirety of child rearing and child caring is a mother's responsibility.

Right.

Whenever I would have this conversation with women, it was interesting. I would talk to women out at school events, school functions, or out and about women who were no longer working and they would say, you know, I did the math and my salary wasn't. It was barely covering childcare or it was a little bit more. It would almost always be followed up with the following. I didn't really like my job anyway.

Yes.

So it made me wonder, hmm, maybe we should start pursuing careers that we really, really like. Also, we sometime start to opt out. Once we start to even think about having a family. We think, oh well, having a family and having a professional life, it's really difficult to have those two. Sort of psychologically, we start to undermine our ability in the workplace. We don't go for the promotion, we don't job hop, we don't ask for the raise. Cause we're like, we just defer to this idea of like, well, eventually I'll probably just have to be the full time caregiver. Because what I'm making now will probably stay the same and I'll probably end up just having to quit.

That's an interesting way to think about it. I've heard it from women and I've heard it from men. You know, my wife's doesn't make enough money and I'm like, do you make enough money to afford the home that you live in? Like, I just think there's other expenses that are considered because child care supports everybody. Everybody.

Childcare. Childcare is an investment.

Yes.

I mean, I'll go even so far to say that it is an investment like your student loans are an investment. We are willing to go into six figures worth of debt for a bachelor's degree for a job that we're not even going to get, but we are not willing to hire someone or go and drop our child off at a daycare facility.

Right.

So that we can continue working, so we can someday collect Social Security so that we can contribute to a 401k so that we can continue, you know, earning our place in the workforce, earning a paycheck, continuing our trajectory. And I mean, I mean if that's what you want to do, I'm not saying you have to. There's nothing wrong with stepping out of the workforce.

No.

I'm just saying that don't allow this back of the napkin math that is genderist to force you out of the workforce.

That's how I think that, that's the thing is to consider it as a family expense. The big picture.

[Contentful Advertiser]

Right.

[Lindsay Stanberry]

Doesn't all have to be shouldered on one person.

Yeah.

How should people think about the trade off? You know, you were talking a little bit about, you know, the nanny, this like cost versus flex, it being an investment, you know, the more flexible is arguably the more expensive.

Right. Look, I mean it's easy to say that investing in your flexibility is a, is a payoff. And you know, investing is good, but money costs.

Yeah.

You know, and I don't want to sit here and say just always invest if it's going to afford you flexibility. And because flexibility is a good thing and time is important, everybody has a cloak. So do what you can and prioritize what's important. Maybe start with baby steps. I think there's, it's always nice to have a goal. Maybe like maybe the first six months we're going to start out with this sort of an arrangement for childcare. But our goal is to eventually hire someone full time to come into the home. Because eventually I want to go back into the workforce full time. And that is what is going to satisfy and support that. And that's what I want families to really remember is, is that we make a plan and we can change the plan. We don't have to create this forever plan for childcare. It's malleable.

I think that's so important about childcare is that it's always changing. You're always sort of reinventing the wheel on it. And that's a good thing.

It's a good thing. And your time is valuable, but also your time with your kid is valuable too. This rush back to the workforce, I know some of us do have that pull. And if that's your calling, go for. It's a very individual thing.

It is. It's so great to see more and more companies offering paternity leave. I have so many friends who have sort of split that time where the mom will stay home at first for three to four months and then the husband will step in and have his opportunity. And, you know, that creates a bond with them and saves money on childcare and I think just makes a good system for people.

Yeah. My husband. This is. Now we're going back 10 years. So I know things have, in the more recent years have accelerated in that depression apartment, but even 10 years ago, we assumed there was no paternity leave at a startup, no less.

Right.

And my husband went and just because, you know, ask, you never know. And they said, yeah, we have four weeks of paid leave for fathers.

Yeah.

And so he did stagger it. And we were so blown away by that. So if that's. What if that was the case back then, for a start. Startup.

Yeah.

Imagine what could be possible today for even, like a small company that's not at the seed level.

No. You know, no, no, it was the same. My husband had four weeks and took two weeks at the beginning and two weeks at the end. We were so excited.

Yeah. But I think take what you can get.

I feel so lucky for people who have, you know, three to six months. It's so nice.

Yeah. Take it, Take it.

Do you see areas where people can save money on this? I feel like people always get a little funny about, like, saving money on childcare. Is it. Is it even possible?

Well, you mentioned earlier pairing up with another household.

[Corinne Lowe]

Yeah.

[Lindsay Stanberry]

Leaning on your community, leaning on the generosity of neighbors and friends, seeking the advice and counsel of other parents. I'm not gonna say that it's like something that you can do all the time, but for moments when you're in a bind. You have a job interview and you wanna go and do it or someone's sick in your family and you have to go help them and you have a gap in childcare. The idea that you have to go pay for a service or out of pocket for that. Maybe there is someone in your neighborhood, a neighbor, someone you can trust to come in and help and building those relationships before your kids are even born, if you're expecting. Really, really helpful. But even in those early months when you are home with your kid, baby, that's a great way to invest your time, is to get to know other early stage parents for these times especially to really help each other out in crisis moments. But I think in general, if you're comfortable pairing up with other families to share in that childcare expense can be so good. 50% less. What's better than that?

Yeah, I was always so reluctant to like share advice as if there wasn't enough, you know, like, you don't want to let somebody in on your secret affordable childcare or something like that. And as I've gotten to be an older parent, I'm like, no, no, let me, let me share. Let's swap.

Oh, drop that scarcity mindset.

It's good.

It's okay. I will say too, there is a movement of people to live in their hometowns or inviting an in law or a grandparent to come and stay with them in the early months. I mean, my friends just bought a home, they're younger and they haven't started, you know, growing their family yet, but they had in mind we want an additional bedroom for potentially like an in law in the event that we will need childcare. And this is a couple that almost didn't have a kid, didn't even think that it was possible because they did the math. Yeah, they did the spreadsheet and they're like, oh my gosh, gosh, childcare, Whoa. And they thought, well, you know, we have healthy parents who would love to spend time with their future grandkids maybe. And you know, it's, it's a bit of a consideration, but these are the trade offs that families are making right now.

My mom helped, did not live with us, but helped a lot. And I like to tease her that there's no such thing as free childcare. I definitely paid in other ways.

Here's the other thing. People should know it's temporary.

Yeah, it is.

Can we just say that like, I

mean, that's the big thing, right?

It's temporary investment.

Yes. It's just A short period of time.

And it does pay off in many cases, right? Yeah. It's short term, medium term, and long term payoff. Not to say like throw all the money at it.

No.

Be blind about it. But, you know, you can be smart about it, you can be strategic about it. You can change the plan. There are ways to save. But this idea that it's just too expensive and this is the reason I'm not gonna have a child, which is sort of also another. I've seen this kind of quick math. It's very fearful.

Yes.

There's a lot of fear around this. Understandably. It's a big number. But I hope you know we're trying to explain that there are many ways to slice and dice it.

There are definitely different ways. And I think it takes some digging and some better understanding of your finances. And as we were talking about earlier, like what you do as a dual income couple with no kids and what you do as a dual income couple with kids is dramatically different. Your budget just changes because you have a child now. Right.

I always say people often think having a child is like adding this additional expense to their existing budget and they go, whoa, whoa, whoa, I'm paycheck to paycheck as it is, as opposed to what it really is, which is you're going to ground zero with your budget. You are rebuilding the budget with your child at the heart of it. And everything else is like dancing around this kid. So you know those date nights on

Monday through Friday, very fancy. Gym membership not as important.

I mean, I hope you'll get back to that.

Yeah.

And you do that occasionally.

Yes.

But your lifestyle will change and your priorities will shift. And guess what? You'll be happy to do it because kids will change your life in a beautiful way. And this is not just hyperbole. Like, we are telling you this because people told us this. Right? We were like, okay, yes. And then here we are telling an

audience this the same thing.

Circle of life.

It is. You know, Varnoosh, this was so much fun. Thank you so much for joining me today.

Thank you so much, Lindsay. I'm so happy to talk about this anytime.

I don't want you to feel overwhelmed by everything that we just covered because it was a lot. So if you have questions, feel free to DM us on Instagram or TikTok. If you love family money, make sure to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.

[Stamps.com Advertiser]

Still waiting in line Again, again. That's time you will never get back. Save time and money with stamps.com over 4 million businesses have skipped the line with stamps.com join them to save up to 90% off carrier rates from your computer or phone right now. Print postage for certified mail, registered mail and packages in seconds. Then schedule a pickup right from your home or office for a limited time. Go to stamps.com and use code podcast for a free welcome. Taxes and fees apply.

[Discover Advertiser]

You're listening to this podcast, so I know you've got a curious mind. Here's a helpful fact you might not know yet. Drivers who switch and save with Progressive save over $900 on average. Pop over to progressive.com, answer some questions and you'll get a quick quote with discounts that are easy to come by. In fact, 99% of their auto customers earn at least one discount. Visit progressive.com and see if you can enjoy a little cash flow back Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates national average 12 month savings by $946 by new customers surveyed who saved with Progressive between June 2024 and May 2025. Potential savings will vary.