HAUNTED: Bobby Mackey's Music World

Summary

Podcast Summary: So Supernatural

Episode: HAUNTED: Bobby Mackey's Music World

Host: audiochuck | Crime House
Release Date: September 5, 2025

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Overview

This episode dives into the infamously haunted Bobby Mackey's Music World in Wilder, Kentucky—a dive bar and honky tonk venue with a notorious reputation for ghosts, violence, and alleged demonic activity. Hosts Ashley Flowers, Sam Foreign, Yvette Gentile, and Racha Pecorero retrace the bar’s bizarre and tragic history, from its 19th-century slaughterhouse days to the recent demolition in 2024. They explore true crime, supernatural legends, and the boundary between skepticism and belief while unpacking the stories (and controversies) that made Bobby Mackey’s one of America’s spookiest bars.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Haunted Reputation of Bobby Mackey’s (02:23–06:28)

• Setting the Scene: Bobby Mackey’s was an unremarkable white building by the train tracks, which inside was full of classic honky tonk energy—rows of vinyl, a mechanical bull, and a lively dance floor.

• Supernatural Claims: Numerous patrons and staff have reported a litany of supernatural events—disembodied voices, self-operating lights and doors, sudden chills, and physical touches from unseen hands.

• Infamous Sign:

  “This establishment is purported to be haunted. Management is not responsible and cannot be held liable for any actions of any ghosts or spirits on the premises.”
  (Sam Foreign, 06:05)

• Most Chilling Legend: The jukebox sometimes played "The Anniversary Waltz" on its own—while unplugged and unprogrammed for the song.

• Violent Encounter (1993): A doubting patron in the men’s room was severely beaten—by what witnesses believed was a ghost.

  "There was a strange man standing right in front of him... and then faded into nothing like he'd never even been there."
  (Yvette Gentile, 07:47)

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The History of Violence: Slaughterhouses, Murder & Curses (08:36–16:05)

• Origins: Originally a slaughterhouse in the 1800s with grisly conditions—animal blood routinely poured into a well and into the Licking River.

• The Pearl Bryan Murder (1896):

  • Pearl, a young Indiana woman (five months pregnant), was found decapitated near the future Bobby Mackey’s site.
  • Her boyfriend, Scott Jackson, and his roommate Alonzo Walling—both dental students—became suspects after a botched abortion attempt with cocaine.
  • Conflicting confessions led to both being convicted and executed by hanging.
  • Both proclaimed innocence at the gallows and Alonzo cursed the town:

    "His spirit would return to haunt and curse them all."
    (Yvette Gentile, 20:16)

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Blood, Mobsters, and Tragic Love: The Club’s Twisted 20th Century (21:04–23:08)

• Mob Ties & Prohibition:
  • In the 1930s, the site transitioned from inn to mob-run speakeasy and casino.
  • Johanna Jewel Legend:
    • Mob boss’s daughter and nightclub dancer Johanna fell in love with a performer; her father killed the lover, after which Johanna died by suicide in her dressing room surrounded by roses.
    • After her death, rumors abounded of a lingering curse—businesses constantly failed and sometimes sold for as little as $1.

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Bobby Mackey’s Era: More Hauntings & Possessions (23:19–41:53)

• Bobby Mackey Buys the Bar (1978): With wife Janet—who was six months pregnant.
• Carl Lawson Joins: The quirky 19-year-old maintenance worker claims to be "friends with all of the ghosts," starting a new chapter of chilling tales.

Janet’s Brush with Death (26:17–28:43)

• Janet experiences physical attacks:
  • A ladder nearly falls on her;
  • She is pushed down stairs by "invisible hands," triggering early labor.
  • She hears a voice telling her:

    "Get out. Get out."
    (Yvette Gentile, 28:36)

The Investigation & Exorcism (33:06–44:29)

• Doug Hensley: Paranormal enthusiast validates Janet and Carl's sightings with historical photos and research.
• Carl discovers a secret well beneath the property—possibly the infamous "gateway to hell."
• Carl claims he was possessed; a local psychic agrees. An exorcism is performed and videotaped—Carl is heard speaking Latin:

  "I don't want to leave and I don't have to go anywhere. This body is mine."
  (Carl Lawson during exorcism, ~43:00)
  Translation: "I am Satan."
  (Yvette Gentile, 43:09)

• Despite the exorcism, hauntings persist.

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Skepticism & Controversy (44:29–47:14)

• Historical Inaccuracies:
  • No evidence Pearl Bryan was killed in a satanic ritual; the well does not align with police records—no remains were found.
  • No verified record of Johanna’s suicide or even her existence in local records.
• Possible Motive for Fabrication:

  "There’s a lot of money to be made in the paranormal world. ... Bobby spent an awful lot of time promoting Music World as a haunted location."
  (Sam Foreign, 46:04)

• Bobby Mackey embraced the haunted reputation, capitalizing on it for tours and paranormal TV.

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Ongoing Ghost Stories & Demolition (47:14–49:02)

• Many visitors, independent of the original trio, report seeing ghosts—including Pearl (headless), Alonzo, and Scott.
• Claims of injuries and physical attacks during tours add to the bar's lore.
• Supernatural elements persist:

  “What in the hell pushed Janet down the stairs and triggered her early labor?... Maybe the ghosts are real after all.”
  (Yvette Gentile, 48:22)

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The End of an Era: Demolition & The Future (49:02–End)

• In 2024, Bobby Mackey, citing structural decay, demolished the original bar; new construction is underway, set to reopen in 2026.
• Open speculation about whether the hauntings will return:

  “Will the ghosts return after the bar opens, or could the renovation be the exorcism the building truly needed?”
  (Sam Foreign, 50:36) “They would have to bless that land over and over and over again.”
  (Yvette Gentile, 50:39)

  • Racha’s answer on returning:

    “Ah hell no.”
    (Sam Foreign, quoting Golden Brooks, 50:58)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Physical Hauntings:

  “I've never heard of a ghost beating someone up. Now, anytime you have a place that's allegedly this haunted, there are certain questions that arise.”
  (Sam Foreign, 08:36)

• Curses and Just Desserts:

  “If the people in the town refuse to see that, he will make sure to haunt them forever.”
  (Yvette Gentile, 15:00 on Alonzo Walling’s gallows curse)

• Exorcism Horror:

  “He’s shouting things like, 'I don’t want to leave and I don’t have to go anywhere. This body is mine.' At one point, he even mumbles something in Latin ... 'I am Satan.'”
  (Yvette Gentile, 43:09)

• The Core Question:

  “So, are you—will the ghosts return after the bar opens, or could the renovation be the exorcism the building truly needed?”
  (Sam Foreign, 50:36)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• Introduction to the Location and Hauntings: 02:23–06:28
• Pearl Bryan’s Murder and Historical Curses: 10:55–16:05
• Mobsters and Johanna’s Tragic Legend: 21:04–23:08
• Bobby Mackey Era: Physical Hauntings and Possession: 23:19–44:29
• Skepticism & Monetization: 44:29–47:14
• Modern Ghost Sightings & Demolition: 47:14–49:02
• Speculation About the Future: 49:02–End

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Tone & Final Thoughts

The episode maintains an engaging mix of matter-of-fact crime reporting, playful skepticism, and genuine creepiness—balancing believers’ tales with strong investigative diligence and historical fact-checking. Regardless of whether listeners lean toward skepticism or the supernatural, the legend of Bobby Mackey’s Music World remains chilling, ambiguous—and possibly unfinished.

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For more haunting history and supernatural investigations, tune in to So Supernatural every Friday.

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End of Summary

Transcript

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[Ashley Flowers]

So you guys know me. I am naturally curious about everything. Which is why I love a local location with a rich history. Even if it's something that's supposed to be mindless and fun, like a dive bar somewhere. If there is an old famous celebrity that used to go there, I want to sit in their exact seat. If they have a specialty cocktail on the menu, I'm going to order it. If they were seen on the dance floor, you best believe I'm going to be there dancing the night away too. I just love stepping back into History and sort of imagining myself in the past. Though there is one bar that I wouldn't have wanted to be stuck in after last call. Bobby Mackey's Music World. This honky tonk club in Kentucky was just knocked down in 2024. But honestly, I think that might be for the best because the place is said to have a history so twisted and weird, it is hard to imagine line dancing to Keith Urban knowing what went on there before. I'm talking about satanic rituals, demon possessions. Some have even said it's a gateway to hell. And the supernatural encounters that have happened there over the years, well, they have sent even the toughest cowboys running home to their mamas. I'm Ashley Flowers, and this is so supernatural.

[Sam Foreign]

Sam Foreign. Welcome back to another episode. I'm Racha Pecorero.

[Yvette Gentile]

And I'm Yvette Gentile. And today we're talking about one of the most haunted bars in the country, a little place in Wilder, Kentucky, known as Bobby Mackey's Music World. As Ashley just mentioned, the venue was actually demolished recently in 2024 for potential reasons that we're going to get into today. And when you hear its backstory, you might think that's for the best.

[Sam Foreign]

But for most of its history, the place didn't really look like much, at least not from the outside. It's basically just a plain white square building alongside some train tracks in the middle of nowhere. If not for the sign on the building, which read Bobby Mackey's, you might have mistaken it for a barn or an old abandoned shed. But inside, the place was a lot more lively. Picture a honky tonk dive bar complete with a mechanical bull, an elevated stage, and a gift shop full of vinyl records. Basically, it had everything you'd need to spend a night knocking back some shots, listening to country music, hitting the dance floor, and just having a rowdy good old time.

[Yvette Gentile]

But that's not what the club is best known for. According to the locals, this modest music venue attracted all kinds of guests, including those from other planes of existence, because plenty of people who have been there and work there say the bar is absolutely full of ghosts.

[Sam Foreign]

It's true. There was even a sign out front that read, quote, this establishment is purported to be haunted. Management is not responsible and cannot be held liable for any actions of any ghosts spirits on the premises. When you have a disclaimer on the building like that, you know it's serious.

[Yvette Gentile]

Lots of customers say they've heard voices coming from seemingly empty rooms in the bar. Like there's an invisible Spirit talking out loud. There are also a whole bunch of stories of lights turning on and off on their own without anyone touching them, and of locked doors swinging open without being unlocked or pushed. There's even accounts of people feeling a hand pressed against their skin when they're supposedly all alone. The jukebox reportedly turns on and off by itself with nobody activating it. And sometimes it does this while it's unplugged. And when this happens, it always plays the same song, the anniversary waltz, a song it was never programmed to play. And ghost hunters have even captured videos of strange, shadowy figures walking through the bar, literally. These spirits have been caught on tape, and sometimes they get physical. On one occasion in 1993, a patron said he was watching a performance when he had to use the restroom. The locals and staff all warned him to watch out because there was a spirit that supposedly haunted the men's room. But the customer, he just laughed it off. In fact, he marched into the empty restroom and announced that he wasn't afraid because he didn't believe in ghosts. And then he issued a challenge. He said out loud, if there was a spirit in this room, it had better show itself. The next thing he knew, there was a strange man standing right in front of him, Though he hadn't seen or heard anyone else come in the bathroom. Then a fist went smashing into the customer's jaw. The strange newcomer beat him to a bloody pulp and then faded into nothing, like he'd never even been there.

[Sam Foreign]

I have never heard of a ghost beating someone up. That first freaks me out. Now, anytime you have a place that's allegedly this haunted, there are certain questions that arise, like, where do these ghosts come from? What are their names? Why are they here? And the thing about Bobby Mackey is that it has a very dark history. There is a lot of violence, pain, and injustice in its past. And historians have identified a couple of events that could have helped turn it into one of the most haunted places in the United States.

[Yvette Gentile]

So the building was constructed back in the 1930s, but going back to the 1800s, the grounds had been the site of a slaughterhouse. The building had drains that emptied into a nearby waterway called the Licking River. The slaughterhouse employees dumped all of their waste and animal products into the well leading to the drains to keep the workspace clean. But they slaughtered so many animals there and dumped so much blood that they dyed the Licking river red. And to be clear, this is not a legend. It's the absolute truth. But this sort of thing isn't unusual for the time or the region. In the 1800s, Cincinnati, which was right across the river from the building, was the meatpacking capital of the world. So it had a couple nicknames like the city of pigs and Porkopolis. And every day the streets were clogged with farmers bringing their animals to be butchered. The hogs were known to tip over garbage cans and eat the trash inside. Occasionally, they destroyed people's private property. Add in the fact that 19th century slaughterhouses tended to be dirty, smelly, and just downright brutal, and most Americans had a pretty negative opinion of Cincinnati at the time. All to say, it was definitely not a major tourist destination.

[Sam Foreign]

But in spite of the negative image, a 22 year old woman from Indiana named Pearl Bryan boarded a train to Cincinnati on the night of January 28, 1896. I'll also say her story is not for the faint of heart. It includes discussions of murder and dismemberment. So please listen with care. Now, Pearl was not a hog farmer or a butcher. She didn't have any reason to be going to the city of pigs. In fact, she was a sheltered country girl and the youngest out of 12 kids. But she also had big dreams. She wanted more out of life than what's possible in a small midwestern town. So she got to the big city and she made plans to meet up with an old friend of hers, A dental student named Scott Jackson. Three days later, on February 1, Pearl was found dead. Her remains were discovered just outside of Cincinnati on the Kentucky side of the river. Her remains were found pretty close to the slaughterhouse that'll eventually become Bobby Mackey's music world. But the most alarming thing about the crime scene was that her head was missing and Pearl was four to five.

[Yvette Gentile]

Months pregnant, which was actually a clue for the police. If they could identify the father, they'd have a solid suspect in the case. And as far as the investigators could tell, Pearl only knew one man in the entire city of Cincinnati, the dental student, who she came out there to see. Scott Jackson. And sure enough, when the police questioned Scott, he admitted that he and Pearl were dating before her murder and that the baby was his. And apparently, Pearl came to Cincinnati hoping Scott would help her to get a secret abortion. But keep in mind, in the late 1800s, it was illegal to terminate a pregnancy in male many states. Which means it's not like Pearl could have, you know, gone to her local doctor's office to get the procedure done safely. So instead, she decided to take a bunch of different drugs. Her hope was that she could get the right dosage to cause a miscarriage without harming herself in the process. For what it's worth, this was how a lot of women in the 1890s went about it, because this was their only option. And you have to think about a lot of them died of overdoses. But Pearl thought her boyfriend would help her. The thing was, he was studying to be a dentist, not an ob gyn. Still, he claimed he knew how the process worked. Scott also recruited his roommate, another dental student named Alonzo Walling, to get his hands on some cocaine. Then they gave it to Pearl.

[Sam Foreign]

Except when Pearl took the cocaine, nothing reportedly happened. The dose was too small. According to Scott's statement to the police, this was when his roommate Alonzo completely freaked out. He'd already broken the law by attempting an illegal abortion and by giving cocaine to a pregnant woman. He didn't want Pearl to tell anyone what he'd done or get him into any trouble. So allegedly, Alonzo lured her to a remote field near the slaughterhouses in Kentucky. Then he slit her throat and cut her head off. Scott says his roommate was the real killer.

[Yvette Gentile]

But when the police question Alonzo, he said the exact opposite, that he had nothing to do with the abortion or the murder. Scott's the one who was behind it all. He said he injected her with a very dangerous acid that ended up killing her. So at this point, the police have two viable suspects, and one of them has a pretty compelling motive. Scott could have killed Pearl because he didn't want to deal with her unplanned pregnancy. Meanwhile, Alonzo only seems connected to this case thanks to Scott's accusations. But rather than investigate any further, the detectives decide to charge both men with the murder. Scott and Alonzo are both found guilty, and both are sentenced to die by hanging. Which is when Alonzo, in particular, starts protesting that he doesn't deserve to die and he's innocent. And if the people in the town refuse to see that, he will make sure to haunt them forever.

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[Yvette Gentile]

Alonzo also had a chance to speak before his death, and he said, quote, I die an innocent man. I was not there when she was killed. But then, just as the executioner slipped a noose around Alonzo's neck, he added another comment. Alonzo said that the people of Cincinnati would pay for killing an innocent man because his spirit would return to haunt and curse them all. Well, these words fell on deaf ears. Both Alonzo and Scott were hanged right after that. And the area where Pearl died does seem to go on to suffer a curse, or at least some sort of darkness.

[Sam Foreign]

By the 1930s, the slaughterhouse was torn down and had become an inn. But local mobsters bought the building and converted it into a speakeasy and a casino. Fast forward to 1950, when a nightclub dancer who goes by the name Johanna Jewel is working there. A lot of the coverage about her story is either vague or contradictory, so it's hard to say much about her for sure. But one story goes something like this. She got the job through her father, who was a powerful mob boss. And Johanna was good at dancing. Good enough to earn her own private dressing room. She always kept it filled with freshly cut roses, which were her favorite flowers. Then one day while she was performing, she met a man named Robert Randall. Johanna and Robert fell for one another and hard. Eventually, he got her pregnant. But when Johanna's first father heard about it, he was furious. Angry enough to go out and kill Robert. Once Johanna learned what happened to her lover, she was heartbroken. Rather than live another day without him, Legend has it she died by suicide in her own dressing room. After Johanna's death, the bar was sold again.

[Yvette Gentile]

We could spend all day talking about the different owners names and all of the dark things that happen there. We're talking shootings, beatings, bar fights. I mean, the list goes on and on. But all you need to know is that nobody can build a thriving business. It seems like the hex Alonzo Walling placed on the area has actually come true. In fact, multiple owners are so eager to offload the building, they sell it for a measly price of $1. Literally, y'.

[Sam Foreign]

All.

[Yvette Gentile]

If you look at the property records for Bobby Mackey's, you'll see that time after time, new owners were able to buy it and sell it for a single buck.

[Sam Foreign]

And by the mid-1970s, it's out of business again and pretty run down. That's when a 30 year old local country singer buys the old building to convert it into A bar with live performances. So, yeah, this is where Bobby Mackey himself comes into the picture.

[Yvette Gentile]

Okay. And not to be confused with Bob Mackie, who is an iconic fashion designer who did Diana, Raw, Cher, Madonna. So it's not that Bob Mackie.

[Sam Foreign]

Just saying, Yvette, I know you want it to be the same Bob Mackie, but it's definitely not. Anyway, before our Bobby Mackey can open his music world, he needs to fix the place up. It's a long process, but he has his wife Janet there to help him out. Now, Janet, at the time, is about six months pregnant, so she's trying not to overexert herself. Though the couple gets some unexpected help one day when a random stranger walks into the bar. One while they're remodeling. He introduces himself as Carl Lawson, and he says that he used to work here under the previous owners. He handled all of the maintenance, electrical work, and other handyman style tasks. Carl looks pretty young to be working at a bar, though. And Janet and Bobby aren't even sure if he's old enough to legally drink, which they're right about, because at the time, Carl is only 19 years old, and he's telling these wild, almost childlike stories as well. Right away, he literally says, quote, this place has got a history behind it that no one would believe. Then Carl starts rambling about all of these violent crimes that used to happen here. He even claims that he once witnessed a murder while he was working. Now, Bobby sort of brushes off his stories because he's just excited to have the extra pair of hands. But Janet's a bit disturbed about all of the information that Carl is sharing. Still, they need the help. So Bobby offers the young man a job, and Carl happily accepts. Then he adds that he's sure he'll be a good employee because he's already friends with all of the ghosts, which is kind of a weird thing to say to your new boss, in my humble opinion, Especially because Janet and Bobby have never heard anything about spirits or hauntings at this particular bar before. So they just chalk it all up to Carl being kind of a weird guy. Before long, the three of them are close to having the bar fixed up and ready to open. But that's when odd things start happening, especially to Janet.

[Yvette Gentile]

So one night, Janet's working late after Bobby and Carl have gone home. She's doing the lighter lifting stuff that's, you know, sweeping, testing all the light switches to see if they work, that sort of thing. And at one point, she's walking through a room with a Bunch of ladders leaning against the walls. And right as Janet passes one of those ladders, it moves away from the wall on its own. It starts falling right toward her. Or more specifically, right towards her pregnant belly. Luckily, Carl comes out of nowhere and manages to pull her out of the way just in the nick of time. The latter doesn't hit her or hurt the baby. Still, this is just so odd. Janet didn't bump the ladder before it fell. The doors and the windows are all closed, so it's not like it blew over in the wind. The only way it could have toppled is if someone pushed it. But no one's there. Another night, not too long before the grand opening. Janet is walking through the second floor, making sure everything is set up the way that it's supposed to be. The offices are up there, so it's not an area that the customers will usually see. But still, she wants to make sure everything's perfect. I'll also note that it's only been a little while since the incident with the ladder. So she's still pregnant and still trying to be very careful with the baby. And again that evening, she notices something unexpected. It feels like something is holding her by the waist. Except Janet is all alone. There's nobody up there with her. Still, the sensation is undeniable. It's like an invisible person grabbed her and squeezed her tight. So tight, in fact, she can't get away. It's this unseen force drags her over to the top of the stairwell. And that's when it pushes her. She falls all the way down to the bottom of the steps. And when Janet lands on her knees, she looks up and still doesn't see anyone. But she does hear a voice saying to her. Get out. Get out.

[Sam Foreign]

Now. It seems like Janet is physically okay because she heads home that night instead of going to a hospital. And she tells Bobby what happened. Only he doesn't believe her. More specifically, he doesn't believe the invisible hands that pushed her. He thinks Janet imagined it and probably fell because she lost her balance. But the two of them don't argue about it for long. Because by the next morning, Janet's not feeling well. Now she's experiencing really bad stomach cramps. They're intense enough that Janet rushes to the hospital, which is the right call, because it turns out those weren't just cramps. They were contractions. Janet's in early labor. By 8:30 in the morning, her daughter is born. She's three months premature and only weighs 11 pound, 15 ounces. Luckily, the little girl survives But Janet knows the fall is what triggered her early labor, and she knows she didn't fall on her own. She truly believes a ghost attacked her. Except Bobby still insists that this must have been just an unfortunate accident. But later, when he talks to Carl about what's been going on, Carl says he agrees with Janet. Ghosts are real and they're in the building. In fact, he says he's had interactions with two spirits inside the bar. A woman who says her name is Pearl and a man named Alonzo.

[Yvette Gentile]

Keep in mind that Carl isn't a historian. He doesn't know anything about the murder of Pearl Bryant or about the execution of Scott Jackson and Alonzo Walling. The case was huge news back in the 1890s, right when it happened. But it's been almost a hundred years by now, and nobody really remembers it. But Carl can sense that things are changing because he used to think that the ghost at Bobby Mackey's were friendly. They never hurt or attacked him. In fact, sometimes they warned him if he was about to have a workplace accident or get into some kind of trouble. They were usually helpful. But now things have shifted. Whatever entities are in this bar, they seem to dislike Janet. And if the Mackeys business is going to be successful, they need to get these things out before they hurt somebody else.

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[Sam Foreign]

1978, Bobby Mackey buys an old bar in Wilder, Kentucky, hoping to turn it into a honky tonk music venue. But while he and his wife Janet are fixing it up, she keeps getting attacked by something unseen. After a few incidents, she comes to believe it was a ghost. And their employee, Carl Lawson, agrees. See, strange things have been happening to him, too. Ever since he started working for Bobby, Carl has been having bizarre, violent nightmares. He repeatedly hears disembodied voices in the bar telling him to get out, just like Janet heard after she was pushed down a flight of stairs. Needless to say, Carl thinks it's time to bring in some professionals to get rid of their ghost problem. But Bobby just isn't having it. He is still saying that ghosts don't exist. And in his mind, ghost hunters and psychics are all a big waste of money.

[Yvette Gentile]

Obviously, this creates some tension between him and Janet. She doesn't like being told that she's just imagining things and being overdramatic, and he doesn't like that she keeps bringing up these ghosts. So they start having some really vicious fights about the whole situation. So one night, Bobby reaches out to a friend to vent and asks for advice. This friend, a guy named Doug Hensley, actually takes Janet and Carl's side. Turns out he's really into all things supernatural. So the moment Bobby mentions that Janet believes the bar is haunted, Doug thinks, well, this is definitely worth investigating for myself. He talks to Janet and Carl about what they've seen, and then Doug does some historical research to see if there's any violence in the bar's history. Smart man. Of course, there's a ton of it. But Doug focuses on the stories that have the most documentation. In particular, he reads about Pearl's murder and how Alonzo and Scott were arrested, convicted, and hanged over it. He even prints out pictures of Pearl, Alonzo, and Scott. When he shows the photos to Janet and Carl, they confirm they have seen all three of those people walking around the bar. And they've seen other spirits, too, people who haven't been identified yet. Meaning Doug still has a lot more research to do just to get to the bottom of this.

[Sam Foreign]

In the meantime, it sounds like Janet and Carl have some really compelling evidence. But Bobby still doesn't believe. In fact, he thinks that all of this talk of ghosts and spirits and attacks is becoming a big problem. Janet is stressed and worried all the time, and Carl isn't getting any of his work done. Actually, he tells Carl that if he wants to keep his job, he needs to stop talking about hauntings immediately. Carl tries to follow this rule, but it's hard because everything just seems to be getting weirder and worse. One day, he's working in one of the dressing rooms, a room that, by the way, always smells like roses, even when there are no flowers there. And you may remember back when Johanna Jewel was said to be dancing at the club, she always kept roses in her room. Except Carl has never even heard of Johanna. And he doesn't know anything about her story. Not until he happens to notice something he's never spotted before. A loose board on the floor. When he lifts the board, he finds an old book inside of it, a journal from the 1950s. And when he reads the entries, he supposedly learns it's Johanna's diary. The story chills Carl to his core, especially the last words of the final entry, which read, quote, if there is life after death, I'll walk this place until my Robert returns for me. Now, when Carl tells Bobby what he's found, Bobby shuts it down yet again. But things just keep getting creepier, especially for Carl. Like how one night, there's a really bad storm that knocks out the bar's power. So Carl has to venture into the dark, dingy basement to get at the fuse bar. At one point, he drops his flashlight on the floor. But when he puts his hand down, he feels something unexpected. A latch that opens a trap door. When Carl opens it, he sees a century old well. It's the same well that slaughterhouse employees used to pour blood into. But in the past 150 years or so, everyone's forgotten that it was even there. It's not on any of the blueprints, meaning Carl has sort of rediscovered it. As soon as he looks down this well, he gets this sense that he's not alone. He glances up in time to see that there are two men in the basement with him, and they're holding a noose. Carl recognizes them as Scott and Alonzo, so of course, he runs away as fast as he can.

[Yvette Gentile]

After this, Carl's behavior becomes erratic and unpredictable. He starts telling these wild stories. In fact, Carl claims he's learned more about Pearl's murder directly from the spirits themselves. Apparently, Pearl wasn't killed in that field where her body was found. She was tortured to death right here in the building, and her remains were dumped later. Carl claims that Alonzo and Scott didn't only murder Pearl to cover up the pregnancy. He says their spirits told him they were also Satan worshippers who were performing an occult ritual. Part of it involved, and this is hard to say, chopping off Pearl's head and tossing it right into the well under the bar. The reason they did this is because the well is a portal connected directly to hell. Allegedly, a group of devil worshippers had previously opened it by dumping animal blood into it. And somehow Alonzo and Scott learned about the gateway. So later they killed Pearl as an offering to Satan. And the reason her head has never been found is because it's not in the world of the living anymore.

[Sam Foreign]

My heart hurts just listening to you say that. Obviously, this is all really disturbing to hear. And Bobby still doesn't know what to do about it. Especially because by now the bar is open and running. Bobby hasn't heard any reports of customers seeing ghosts yet, but he's worried that if these rumors get out, people will be too afraid to come to Music World to watch shows or to drink. So finally, after all of this time, it seems like part of Bobby is starting to believe this stuff. Which is why he reaches back out to his friend Doug, the same guy who found the historical information about Pearl's murder. And now Doug recommends bringing in the big guns. He calls a local psychic who walks through Bobby Mackey's music world, and she comes to a couple of conclusions. First, she agrees that, yes, the venue is haunted. And second, she says that 19 year old Carl is possessed. An evil spirit is controlling him, and it drove him to discover Johanna's diary and the evil well.

[Yvette Gentile]

Okay, so this is news to Carl, who's never even considered the possibility that he was under any demonic influence. But the more that he thinks about it, the more that it actually starts to make sense. Carl never used to have a bad temper, but in the past few months, since Bobby and Janet took over the bar, he's been feeling these intense flashes of anger. Anytime he's encountered any minor setback, he flies into a literal rage. Screaming, throwing things, losing it entirely. And on top of that, he's been really forgetful. He'll suddenly find himself in the bar with no memory of how he got into this particular room or what he's been doing for the past few hours. For the most part, Carl's been able to, you know, write it off like he's just been working too hard and the stress is getting to him. But now he wonders if something has been taking over his body during these blackouts. So he agrees to receive an exorcism right there. At the bar which his pastor records, Meaning this entire thing is on videotape. No, I have not watched it because this footage is really, really creepy to watch. So if you do watch it, I'm just saying beware. And I've gotta say, the footage is really creepy to watch. It involves the reverend ordering the spirit to leave Carl's body. Meanwhile, Carl screams in horror and pain. He's shouting things like, I don't want to leave and I don't have to go anywhere. This body is mine. At one point, he even mumbles something in Latin, which is a language Carl doesn't even speak. But these words translate to I am Satan. All told, the ritual lasts six whole hours. But thank God, it's a success. The exorcism works. The demon leaves Carl. But I want to be clear. The pastor wasn't trying to cast ghosts out of Bobby Mackie's music world, just out of Carl. So even though Carl is saved, the haunting still continues.

[Sam Foreign]

It's definitely a terrifying story. But to be fair, I have to point out some discrepancies in Carl's claims. Starting with his allegation that Pearl was killed in a satanic ritual. There's simply no evidence that her murder had any occult elements. The police didn't see any signs of ritual torture. And the newspapers at the time never mentioned satanism in connection to the crime. In fact, they searched the well after Pearl's body was found, just in case. There were no remains there. And the crime scene where the body was found was. Was about four miles away.

[Yvette Gentile]

There are also problems with the story of Johanna Jewel, the dancer. The biggest issue is that there's no record of anyone taking their own life at the club or of anyone with that name dying anywhere in the Cincinnati area in the 1950s. Supposedly, she was the daughter of a high ranking mob boss, but we know who all of the kingpins were at that time. And none of them had a daughter named Johanna or a daughter who was a dancer. All to say. I mean, it just sounds like her whole story is a complete hoax, which, okay, has some people wondering, what if Carl made up all of this? And if he's lying, Bobby might be in on it too.

[Sam Foreign]

I can completely see that as a possibility. I mean, after all, there's a lot of money to be made in the paranormal world. People will pay to go on ghost tours, watch occult investigations, and catch a show at an allegedly haunted bar. And for someone who supposedly didn't believe in ghosts and didn't even want to talk about them, Bobby spent An awful lot of time promoting music world as a haunted location. Over the years, he heard more stories about what happened at his bar, and he began going on TV shows to talk about it. He made appearances on daytime talk shows like Jerry Springer and the paranormal series Ghost adventures with our friend Zach bagans, Just to advertise the location as an occult hotspot. Instead of hiding it, Bobby doubled down. But a lot of people say that's strong evidence that Bobby, Janet, and Carl just faked the whole thing to drum up business.

[Yvette Gentile]

But okay, we still have all those stories of other people besides Bobby having paranormal experiences. For years, ghost hunting companies offered haunted tours of the bar. And during these events, customers repeatedly said they'd seen Pearl, Alonzo, and Scott wandering through the building. Pearl's ghost supposedly has no head, but it wanders around like it knows exactly where it's going. Allegedly, ghost hunters have also been able to communicate with Scott's spirit, and he's admitted to being the real killer. So if you believe that confession, it means Alonzo really was wrongfully executed. There are also reports of people seeing shadowy figures, but it's impossible to say who they are. Some say they hear footsteps, and then the whole room smells like roses, as though Johanna is approaching. And this one's really scary. But some people end these tours with new scratches or injuries on their bodies, as if the ghost really did attack them. Which reminds me, if ghosts aren't real, what in the hell pushed Janet down the stairs and triggered her early labor? Who attacked that customer in the men's room that we talked about early on back in 1993? Maybe the ghosts are real after all. Some have even gone as far as to say the well really is a portal to hell, and it could be drawing demons and evil entities into our world. I mean, who's to say?

[Sam Foreign]

Well, one paranormal investigator gave an interview in 2019, and he believed these spirits would inevitably drive Bobby Mackey's music world out of business. He didn't specify how they'd do that. Maybe they'd scare off customers. Maybe they'd break too much expensive equipment and cut into Bobby's bottom line. Maybe they'd just bring a bad vibe to the whole operation. The point is, that prediction came true five years later in March of 2024. That's when 76 year old Bobby announced that he was going to demolish the bar. Officially, it had nothing to do with ghosts or demons. He just said the building was old and falling apart and that it would be cheaper to tear the whole place down and build a new bar rather than renovate it. So on December 10, 2024, the construction crews came in and knocked all of it down and as promised, Bobby began building another bar right afterwards. As of this recording, the new Bobby Mackey's is still under construction. It's slated to reopen sometime in 2026. So Yvette, to me the big question here is are you Will the ghost return after the bar opens or could the renovation be the exorcism the building truly needed?

[Yvette Gentile]

I don't know. They would have to bless that land over and over and over again.

[Sam Foreign]

Agreed.

[Yvette Gentile]

But I guess we'll have to wait and see. And you know what? Maybe when they do all of that, we will plan a honky tonk night out when it reopens. What do you say Raj?

[Sam Foreign]

I'm going to quote our dear friend Golden Brooks, her character from the show Girlfriends, and say ah hell no.

[Yvette Gentile]

This is so supernatural. An adiochuck original produced by Crime House. You can connect with us on Instagram at so Supernatural Pod and visit our [e-mail] join rash and me next Friday for an all new episode. I think Chuck would approve.

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