Lester Sumrall (3:40)

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Chuck (4:11)

Where'd you get those shoes?

Racha Pecorero (4:13)

Easy.

Chuck (4:14)

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Yvette Gentile (4:43)

This woman.

Lester Sumrall (4:44)

Is so adept at being a criminal, it's not funny.

Racha Pecorero (4:48)

I've never seen a show quite like the story of Sarah King.

Lester Sumrall (4:53)

She conned people out of $10 million.

Racha Pecorero (4:56)

But infamy comes with a price.

Yvette Gentile (4:58)

If we don't have our money by.

Lester Sumrall (4:59)

Tomorrow morning, you will be gutted like a fish in Newport.

Racha Pecorero (5:02)

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Yvette Gentile (5:15)

I know we've talked about this before, but just as a reminder, when it comes to religion, Rasha and I were both brought up pretty differently.

Racha Pecorero (5:25)

It is true, we are 11 years.

Rasha (5:26)

Apart, and I think by the time.

Racha Pecorero (5:28)

I came around, mom just wasn't into going to church every Sunday. I think the only time we ever went to church was when we were seeing a friend perform or sing. So I was not raised in the church in any capacity, right?

Yvette Gentile (5:42)

And for me, I was definitely raised in the Christian church because that's where mom was raised as well, in Reno. So I was in the choir, I was performing in the Christmas plays. I was doing all the things in the church.

Racha Pecorero (5:54)

Yeah. But even if we weren't going to church every Sunday, by the time I came around, there's one thing that we've always agreed on. Evil forces are out there.

Yvette Gentile (6:05)

So when we talk about evil forces, Rasha and I did a podcast called Root of Evil with our entire family. And there's a lot that was left on the cutting room floor. But there is one episode where we actually went into the Franklin house where our great grandfather George Hodel lived. And when you talk about an evil presence, when you walk into that house, when you walk into that basement, it is unlike anything you will ever experience. Because I do believe energy stays stagnant in places where God awful things have happened. So when we look at religion or we look at the dark side, right, it's always good versus evil. But exorcisms, well, these aren't just performed in Christianity. They're also seen in Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, just to name a few. And while you may think that anyone who turns to exorcisms is very religious, well, think again, because that isn't necessarily.

Racha Pecorero (7:10)

True, as was the case with 17 year old Clarita Villanueva. Clarita was born in the mid 1930s on a small island in the Philippines. And from what I could tell, she may have been Catholic like most Filipinos, but she wasn't really brought up that way. She was raised by a single mother, who by some accounts, was a fortune teller and dabbled in the occult for work. But unfortunately, she passed away when Clarita was young, somewhere between the ages of 12 and 14. So overnight, Clarita suddenly finds herself on her own. And that's when she first thinks of getting in contact with her father. Clarita didn't grow up knowing her dad. At this point, she's not even sure if he's still alive. The only thing she knows about him is that he's from Manila, the capital of the Philippines. So she decides to head out there, hoping to find whatever family she might have left to care for her. This kind of reminds me of when our mom was looking for her birth mother. She had no interest in finding her birth father, but she did go on the Nancy Drew adventure of finding her birth mother in Honolulu, Hawaii.

Yvette Gentile (8:20)

That's right. And she had her birth certificate in hand. But mom was in her 20s at this point. Now Remember, Clarita is no older than 14. She was really brave, I mean, to set off on this journey to find her dad. A lot like our mom, Rasha, like what you just said. But she must have been terrified moving to a new city alone. And Clarita grew up in poverty, so she, she's showing up with nothing. Probably just the clothes on her back. But still, Clarita is resourceful. She makes it work. And in order to do that, she has to just focus on making ends meet. Which means that she has to put the search for her dad aside, at least for a while. She gets a job as a maid, then another where she's a hostess at some restaurants and bars. And at that job she starts dancing for a little extra cash, which at that age, well, I'm just gonna say that is no life for a 14 year old. Period.

Racha Pecorero (9:23)

I can't even imagine. Especially being mother to a 13 year old girl. Can you imagine Yvette, your niece, dancing to make ends meet? It breaks my heart.

Yvette Gentile (9:34)

No, no, not at all. And Auntie would be there in 10, snatch her off that stage straight away.

Racha Pecorero (9:41)

I know you would. I know you would. But 14 year old Clarita at this point is really all alone in the world. So she takes the job opportunity and does it for a while. And before she knows it, Clarita has spent three years in Manila. She's built a new life for herself. And it seems like finding her father is no longer top of mind. Because by 17, Clarita has a new man in her life. Someone she's fallen madly in love with, who seems like he can support her and give her the life she never had. Only when they go to elope, she finds out this guy's got a wife. All of Clarita's hopes and dreams come crashing down in a way that really leaves her struggling both emotionally and financially. And that's when Clarita makes a life choice that that will sort of change the course of everything. Clarita turns to sex work. This seems to work with her lifestyle. She goes back to the bar she used to dance at to find her clients. And that keeps her afloat for a while. But on May 7, 1953, Clarita's job, which is still very illegal, mind you, even today in the Philippines, lands her in some pretty hot water. Because that evening Clarita accidentally solicits a plainclothes police officer. He arrests her on the spot and takes her to Manila's infamous old Bilibid prison where she'll wait for her trial and sentencing.

Yvette Gentile (11:14)

Now, this isn't just any prison. It is a really dark place. And to paint a picture for you, it's where Spanish conquerors imprisoned their victims in the 19th century and where the Japanese confined prisoners of war during World War II. All to say, you don't want to end up there. Especially if you're a teenage orphan who spent the last several years on the street. Because remember, Clarita is still technically underage. She's only 17.

Racha Pecorero (11:47)

Right? An old bilibid is supposed to be a prison for adults. So not only is Clarita feeling out of place, she's probably incredibly traumatized. Luckily, she manages to survive the first couple of days without incident. But on the night of May 9, things take a significant turn. Out of nowhere that night, Clarita just starts screaming. And I don't mean like just a startled scream. These are loud, blood curdling shrieks. The other inmates stop what they're doing and watch as Clarita collapses to the ground and literally starts flailing her entire body. She looks like she's trying to fight someone or something, except there's nobody around. But it's very clear that whatever Clarita sees, it's very, very real to her. And she's terrified of it. The guards and the prison doctors hurry over to check on Clarita and they immediately notice something incredibly freaky. She has bite marks all over her body. Now, I know what you're thinking, but no, according to witnesses, the other inmates haven't touched her. And it couldn't have been Clarita herself, because some of these marks are in impossible to reach places, like on her neck. Plus, while the guards and doctors are watching her, they see new bite marks appear on Clarita's body in front of their very eyes. Supposedly, there's even blood and saliva on them. It's like invisible things are digging into Clarita's skin.

Yvette Gentile (13:28)

The thing is about this, you have guards, you have doctors. Like they are there witnessing these bite marks appear on her neck out of nowhere. That has to be the freakiest thing you could ever imagine seeing.

Racha Pecorero (13:43)

Yeah, I mean, look, this whole thing is unlike any possession story I think.

Yvette Gentile (13:50)

You or I have ever heard before, 100%.

Racha Pecorero (13:54)

And when they ask her, like, what in the world just happened? She insists that she was bitten by two male attackers and describes them as evil looking men.

Yvette Gentile (14:06)

Now, if it wasn't for the bites, they might have just thought that Clarita was having some kind of hallucination, Right? But something is physically harming her, leaving.

Racha Pecorero (14:15)

Marks on her body, it's pretty darn convincing. Even when she's seen by a prison doctor, they have no idea how to help her. And obviously the guards are even less equipped to deal with something like this. So the only thing they can think of is to send Clarita to their boss, the head jailer. This guy's name is Captain Antonio Ganibi.

Yvette Gentile (14:40)

And it just so happens that when she gets to Antonio's office, the demons that are tormenting Clarita return. She drops to all fours and crawls under his desk, claiming the demons are touching her and she doesn't know how to make it stop. That's when she makes a strange request. See, Clarita normally wore a small metal crucifix, and she asked Antonio to return it to her, which I think we can assume she had removed any of her jewelry upon entry into the prison. Anyway, Antonio has no idea what she's talking about. He hasn't taken anything from her, but she insists that he check his pockets. So he does. And that's when he feels a metal crucifix sitting right there in his pocket, just like Clarita said. So you can imagine Antonio is super creeped out now. He can't explain how it ended up there. So he just hands the crucifix to Clarita and hopes that she'll just calm down. But instead of saying thank you, Clarita shouts at Antonio, telling him that he's going to die unexpectedly. I mean, the whole situation is so strange and unbelievable that it kind of gets lost in the chaos and in the moment. No one really takes this prediction seriously. That is, until a few weeks later, when Clarita's message comes true. Antonio really does pass away suddenly. And the creepiest of all, the coroner can't identify his cause of death. Like, what the heck?

Racha Pecorero (16:30)

And that's not the only spot on premonition she has. After meeting with Ghanaeve, Clarita continues to have these fits where she develops new bite marks. Now, I don't know what takes them so long, but 10 days later, the guards finally send Clarita to an actual hospital for an exam. But even at the hospital, doctors are dumbfounded by Clarita's symptoms. Although one doctor by the name of Manuel Ramos thinks this has to be some kind of hoax. He reportedly gets into a standoff with Clarita, where she tells him the same thing she told Antonio. You will die. Only this time, 24 hours later to the actual hour, Dr. Ramos suffers a fatal heart attack. Until then, he had been Perfectly healthy.

Yvette Gentile (17:24)

To say you don't want to find yourself on Clarita's bad side is a complete understatement.

Racha Pecorero (17:30)

I mean, I know I wouldn't want to be on her bad side. By this point, gossip about this whole thing is spreading well beyond the walls of the prison and the hospital. Eventually it reaches the Manila Police Department's Chief Medical Examiner, Dr. Mariano Laura. Now, Dr. Laura doesn't believe in demonic possessions, so he just figures Clarita's behavior is a lot more explainable to him. She's clearly living with a mental health condition. So he sends a bunch of people to examine her in prison. I'm talking doctors, professors, medical interns and a ton of other specialists just to try and get to the bottom of this. Allegedly, while Clarita was in one of her possessed states, they even pricked her with pins to see if she would respond to the pain. And apparently she didn't even flinch. Now, to be honest, I'm not sure what other tests they run on Clarita, but I know the doctors and psychiatrists go back to Dr. Lara and say Clarita is mentally sound, which means that there's no psychological explanation for what is going on.

Yvette Gentile (18:41)

So, I mean, this is a huge deal. You have to imagine that a team of experts would be so quick to write this off as a mental health condition, if for no other reason than to just explain what's going on here, because whatever is happening is so far fetched. But no, that is not the case.

Racha Pecorero (19:03)

It's all very bizarre and very creepy. And news about Clarita continues to spread across the city of Manila to the point where even the mayor of Manila himself can't resist paying Clarita a visit.

Yvette Gentile (19:17)

I mean, I can't really blame the guy. He wants to see what all the commotion is about. And honestly, I probably would too, if I was the mayor.

Racha Pecorero (19:25)

I don't know if I'd want to see, especially with all her premonitions coming out.

Yvette Gentile (19:29)

That's true, but let's just say he.

Racha Pecorero (19:31)

Gets what he bargained for. Because only 15 minutes into their meeting, the mare watches in absolute horror as bite marks appear on Clarita's neck and index finger. When he grabs her hand and takes a closer look at the bite marks, he notices that it looks like they came from human teeth. And while he's holding her hand, he sees new bites appear on her palm. The mare is, as you can imagine, beside himself at this point. He has to know more. So he gives Clarita a pencil and paper and he asks her to draw a picture of whatever is attacking her, but the minute she touches the pencil, it flies out of her hand.

Yvette Gentile (20:15)

And we don't even have to take the mayor's word for it, because this whole meeting apparently happened in front of a reporter too. And that reporter turns around and of course you know what happens, goes and publishes a story and it doesn't take long for the news to make it around the world. From Manila to New York, everyone is reporting on this like I'm talking front page news. But Clarita doesn't have to go that far to find help, because there's one man willing to stake his entire career on saving her life. And guess what? He's already in Manila. Make this year a milestone in your child's education with ixl, y'all. I have seen my niece use IXL and I'm seriously impressed. It's not just easy to use, it's incredibly effective. She's gone from struggling in a few areas to truly excelling, and I can actually see how much more confident and curious she's become about learning. Honestly, I wish I had IXL when I was in school. Imagine having every subject broken down so clearly with personalized support that helps you actually understand things instead, instead of feeling stuck. IXL is a total game changer for kids today, so make an impact on your child's learning. Get IXL now and so Supernatural listeners can get an exclusive 20% off an IXL membership when they sign up today at ixl.com supernatural Visit ixl.com supernatural to get the most effective learning program out there at the best price.

Racha Pecorero (22:10)

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Yvette Gentile (23:16)

It'S May 1953 in the city of Manila in the Philippines. An American pastor named Lester Sumrall happens to be living in the city. He's there temporarily doing some mission work and helping locals build churches when something on the radio catches his attention. It's a story about a woman at old Bilibid prison and how supposedly she's been dealing with a demonic possession that no one can tame. And of course, her name is Clarita Villanueva.

Racha Pecorero (23:53)

The broadcaster actually warns his listeners, and this is a direct quote, if you have a weak heart, please turn your radio off. But as a self proclaimed man of faith, Lester reaches for the dial and turns the volume up. He's tuned in just in time to hear a recording of Clarita during one of her attacks. And while her screams are bone chilling, to Lester it sounds all too familiar. He's heard similar cries in the past because according to his accounts, he's dealt with demonic possessions before. Lester knows right away that Clarita isn't struggling with some medical or mental health condition. In his mind, she's being attacked by something straight out of hell.

Yvette Gentile (24:41)

Let's just say Lester's the kind of guy who might also see this as an opportunity. See, he's kind of a big deal in the Pentecostal religious community back in the States. And while he came to the Philippines to help build a church, he has deeper motives. Lester's real mission is to convert the locals, who are very, very heavily Roman Catholic, to his religion, Pentecostalism. And I'm not going to get into the ins and outs of religion here. All you need to know is that Lester's attempts aren't sitting well with the community in Manila. They aren't exactly jumping at the opportunity to convert. So his mission so far has kind of been a bust, which of course.

Racha Pecorero (25:27)

Is a blow to Lester. But after hearing about Clarita, he figures he might be able to turn a corner. Maybe he can use this as an opportunity to show the powers of Pentecostalism. So Lester makes a few phone calls and soon the contractor on the church he's building gives him access to the mayor of Manila. And the mayor is basically like, sure, come on down to the prison. We'll take all the help we can get with her. Under one condition, of course. If something bad happens to Lester, the mayor is not responsible. To which Lester thinks, challenge accepted.

Yvette Gentile (26:06)

I mean, rash. Doesn't this totally feel like a publicity stunt on Lester's inn?

Racha Pecorero (26:11)

I mean, maybe. Does he really think he can help? That's possible too. Either way, on the morning of May 18, 1953, he heads down to old Bilibid prison. He's not ready to meet Clarita just yet. He says he needs to mentally prepare if he's going to fight the devil. But he does talk to Dr. Mariano Lara, the chief medical examiner for the Manila police department. You know, the guy that didn't believe in demonic possession and who insisted Clarita was living with a mental health condition. Well, I guess Lester wants to get both sides of the story before he fully commits to this quest. But during that first day, he also gives Dr. Lehrer, who seems to be Clarita's primary doctor at this point, a few guidelines to follow. One, do not let anyone give Clarita any medication. He needs her fully coherent for her exorcism. Two, she can't have her rosary beads anymore. See, Clarita was given these rosaries by someone in the prison as a means of protection. She'd pray with them, she'd kiss them, she'd sleep with them. And they seem to be making her feel better. But Lester doesn't want any of that. He thinks these things are making it worse. He says they're infested with evil spirits, and Dr. Lera needs to take them away from her right away. And his third and final rule, Lester says no other groups should come in and pray for Clarita. Now, look, I don't know if Lester actually believes that the Catholic prayers and rosaries are making things worse or if he just wants to make sure his faith and his methods get all the credit. Frankly, in my opinion, it seems like the latter. But either way, Dr. Lera seemingly agrees to all of these demands. And that evening, Lester leaves the prison feeling prepared. Tomorrow, he'll meet Clarita face to face.

Yvette Gentile (28:14)

At 8am on the morning of May 19, Lester returns to the prison rested and ready to start the exorcism. Only to his surprise, Dr. Lara has called a bunch of his friends to come and watch the pastor in action. And we're talking doctors, professors, policemen, and members of the press. All in all, lester counts about 105 spectators.

Racha Pecorero (28:45)

The only thing missing is the popcorn at this point.

Yvette Gentile (28:48)

Look, Lester's probably liking the attention. I mean, after all, he really wants the credit for saving Clarita. But there are so many observers and absolutely zero way for any of them to see all of this in Clarita's cell. So instead, they lead the whole crowd to the prison chapel. And actually, to call it a chapel might be overstating it. It's got a simple altar and these steel barred windows. But it's a little bit bigger than Clarita's usual cell, so all the spectators can actually see inside.

Racha Pecorero (29:30)

As Clarita enters, she takes a good look at the people in the room. But when she gets to the pastor, her eyes get big and she shouts, I don't like you. But Lester is not fazed. He just says, this is more proof that the devil is speaking through her. And from there, he pretty much rolls up his sleeves and gets to work. He prays for the demons to leave Clarita, but his words don't do much to make her feel better. She actually interrupts him, shouting, no, no. They will kill me. Then Lester reaches out and grabs Clarita's head with both hands. But the moment he touches her, bite marks appear all over her arms and neck. He can see that the blood vessels are broken underneath her skin. And then she faints.

Yvette Gentile (30:22)

Okay, so we have these bite marks appearing out of nowhere. I mean, that would turn even the biggest skeptics into believers, right?

Racha Pecorero (30:31)

100%. Because apparently even Dr. Lehre, the medical examiner who was her biggest skeptic, he's beside himself in this moment. He tells Lester they should give her a break, because based on Clarita's past fits, he knows it usually takes a few hours for her to wake up and come to her senses. But Lester's not a very patient guy. He doesn't want to come back tomorrow if he can help it. He wants to get these demons out of her today. So he props Clarita's chin up and demands she open her eyes. And she does, which. Okay, that doesn't sound like much, but Clarita's doctors are in shock. They've never been able to wake her up that easily before. Now Clarita tells the pastor she's actually in a ton of pain.

Yvette Gentile (31:17)

I mean, of course she is. She has a bunch of fresh wounds all over her body.

Racha Pecorero (31:24)

Exactly. So she cries, begging Lester to leave her alone. But he doesn't listen. He's in the thick of it now. He confronts the demons and says, come out of her in Jesus name. He keeps on repeating that phrase over and over for the next four hours. Each time, Clarita curses him and new bite marks appear. It's like the demons are fighting back and Clarita's body is their battlefield. Meanwhile, Lester stays persistent, even though he's probably exhausted by this point. He's determined to heal her. Only she's barely showing any signs of improvement until around noon, when all of the activity just stops. Clarita stops cursing. The biting goes away. At this point, Lester is drenched in sweat and totally spent. The exorcism has taken its toll on.

Yvette Gentile (32:22)

Both of them, and one would hope the worst is over.

Racha Pecorero (32:26)

I mean, all of those spectators sure seem to think so. Many of them are in tears. They think they've just witnessed a miracle. Only Lester isn't so convinced. Yes, Clarita seems to be feeling better now, but devils don't just disappear, they tend to come back stronger and with a vengeance. So Lester heads home to fast and pray because tomorrow he's in for the battle of a lifetime.

Yvette Gentile (32:59)

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Rasha (34:05)

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Racha Pecorero (35:08)

When over 100 witnesses watch Lester Sumerall exorcise 17 year old Clarita Villanueva, it seems like her demons might really be gone forever. But Lester? Well, he's not so sure. He has this gut feeling that the devil might still be dormant in Clarita, ready to resurface and continue the torment at any moment so he returns to old Bilibid prison the next morning to check on her. When he gets there, an official tells him that Clarita hasn't developed any new bites since the exorcism yesterday. Which sounds great. But as soon as Lester sees Clarita, she screams at him with the same familiar hostility that she had shown during her possession. So to Lester, this means only one the demons are still there.

Yvette Gentile (35:59)

Which isn't great for Lester because his reputation as a pastor is on the line. If he doesn't get rid of these demons, well, I mean, what does that say for his church and for his faith as a whole?

Racha Pecorero (36:11)

Which is why Lester came ready for another fight. For the second day in a row, another huge audience gathers to watch. And today's crowd might even be bigger than yesterday's. Lester asks everyone in the room to kneel. Like it doesn't matter if you're a member of the press, a doctor, a policeman, or a prison official. These are his orders. And if you're in the room, you have to obey. Then, once everyone is in position, Lester begins the exorcism. It doesn't take long for him to get locked into this exhausting cycle. This time, two other ministers of his faith are with him, and they each take turns praying and singing songs. Then the demons leave for a minute before they come raging back. Every time it seems like Clarita's free, she suddenly jerks or screams and they're right back where they started. But finally, after an hour or so, Lester senses something different. I'm not sure what's changed exactly, but he seems convinced that this time around, the demons are gone for good. When Lester asks Clarita if she feels the same way, she nods. And when he asks where they went, she points and says that the demons went out through the window.

Yvette Gentile (37:31)

I feel like we fell for this once already. So that's not really the end of this story, is it?

Racha Pecorero (37:37)

Hardly. Just when Lester's ready to pack up and go, Clarita lets out this blood curdling scream. She says the demons are back. This time they even speak through her and say, quote, she is unclean and we have a right to live with her. So Lester starts the whole routine over. I'm not sure how long this goes on for, but eventually he banishes the demons again. And before he leaves, he leads Clarita in one last prayer. He warns her that the demons will almost definitely return after he goes. But now she has the power to make them leave on her own. Next time, all she has to do is say, go in Jesus name. The rest of that afternoon goes by without any issues. Even after Lester and all of the spectators leave. By nighttime, Clarita still hasn't suffered any new attacks. It seems like she might really be cured. Around 8pm she asks a guard for his pocket knife so she can trim her fingernails. Like any sensible prison, old Bilibid has a policy that keeps inmates from having access to sharp objects. But this guard watched Clarita's exorcism and he feels sorry for her. He's not going to hand over his knife, but he offers to cut her nails for her. Now the guard only trims one nail before Clarita lets out this blood curdling scream. Then she contorts her body like she's trying to defend herself. The demons are back. She yells out the prayer Lester taught her and then she staggers up and grabs at something the guard can't see. She clenches her fist and then she faints. The guard calls for help and a few other prison officials and doctors rush over. It seems like Clarita has slipped into a coma, so they move her to a safer spot where Dr. Lera can treat her. That's when they notice that Clarita's hand is still clenched in a tight fist. Dr. Lehrer needs to use all of his strength to force her fingers open. And that's where they find something that honestly blows my mind. Inside her fist is a handful of jet black curly hair. Dr. Lehre examines the hair under a microscope and it confuses him for several reasons. First, it looks like it didn't come from a human. And second, he's pretty positive it's not Clarita's hair. Dr. Lera actually has no good explanation for where it came from.

Yvette Gentile (40:20)

Of all the twists and turns in this story, this one might be the most incredible. Especially if you remember her description of these entities. Because remember, Clarita had described one of her attackers as having dark curly hair all over his body. So you have to wonder, did she actually manage to collect evidence from, I don't know, some unseen demonic force?

Racha Pecorero (40:47)

It's as if Clarita fought back against her demons in that moment and actually won. Because after this hair pulling incident, the invisible tormentors are gone. All of the demonic activity stops and for good this time. The following week, Clarita goes before a judge for the vagrancy charges she was arrested on. He sentences her to a brief stay in a women's facility where she can get on her feet again. And it seems to really Help. Once Clarita is out of prison, she goes on to live a normal, uneventful life in the northern Philippines. A happily ever after sort of ending.

Yvette Gentile (41:26)

To go from being possessed by demons one day and then back to normal life the next day. I mean, y'all, it sounds stranger than fiction, but this was Clarita's reality in May of 1953. And it must have been pure relief to be finally rid of this evil. I mean, one that seemed to have come out of nowhere. And I will say, though, it seems like Lester achieved his goals in all of this, too, because thanks to the press coverage of the exorcism, Lester draws tens of thousands of people out to his sermons when he's back in the States. He also writes a popular book about the experience, which goes on to sell pretty well. And Lester also accomplishes his dream of converting a lot of Filipinos over to Pentecostalism. Over the next three decades, the church he was building in Manila sees thousands of new members. And the church, known as the Cathedral of Praise is still active today, with four locations in Manila and more branches all over the Philippines, the United Arab Emirates, and Hawaii. It's safe to say if this was all just one big publicity stunt, well, it worked. Which is why his massive success does raise questions about his intentions. Like, did he actually care about Clarita, or did he just perform the exorcism to get famous? Which then begs the question, was Clarita ever really possessed in the first place?

Racha Pecorero (43:05)

Okay, this is interesting, because, yes, this whole thing does seem to serve Lester. And a lot of details about Clarita's exorcism come directly from his book. But there were also some details about Clarita's life that, looking back, could be seen as suspicious. Remember how we talked about Clarita's mother being a fortune teller and dabbling in the occult for work? Well, there are some sources that say that as a little girl, Clarita watched her mother hold seances, predict people's futures, you know, that sort of thing. But supposedly, it was all an act. Her mother didn't have any. Any supernatural abilities. She just knew how to fake it, to make it. And that's something that might have made a big impression on a young Clarita. Something she might have even used to, I don't know, get out of jail, maybe. Which seemed to work, because, remember, the judge only sentenced her to that brief stay in the women's facility. And while Dr. Lara and his team said they found no evidence of a mental health condition in Clarita. That might not have been the case, because among that group of people watching the exorcism, there were two doctors from what's now known as the national center for Mental Health in Manila. And they said Clarita showed signs of a personality disorder called hysterical psychoneurosis, which leads to symptoms like aggressiveness and repression. And that she showed signs of malnutrition and dehydration, which could have led to violent delusions.

Yvette Gentile (44:39)

Okay, I totally hear you. But when you take everything into consideration, I think there's a lot of evidence that shows Clarita really was dealing with some supernatural force. Just think about it. Come on. Bite marks appearing all over her body when no one is touching her, and the clumps of hair she seemed to pull from some invisible being. I mean, that alone makes me think there's something to this story. And yes, while Lester Sumrall might have taken advantage of the situation, I'm not sure that that makes Clarita's story any less credible. Especially because in the end, Lester wasn't the one who saved Clarita. She saved herself.

Racha Pecorero (45:24)

I think you bring up an excellent point. Whether you believe the demons Clarita was fighting were literal or figurative, they seem to be very real to her. And the only way she could defeat them was by asserting her own power. How cool is that? Her entire life, Clarita had been on her own. She fell through the cracks of society, and no one was really able or willing to help her.

Yvette Gentile (45:51)

But then, in her darkest moment, she realized that she had the tools to stand up for herself, to take control of her own life. Which goes to show sometimes we have to be pushed to our greatest limits to see what we are truly capable of.

Racha Pecorero (46:21)

This is so supernatural. An audio check. Original produced by Crime House. You can connect with us on Instagram @sewsupernaturalpod and visit our website at sosupernaturalpodcast.com join Yvette and me next Friday for an all new episode. So what do you think, Chuck? Do you approve?

Chuck (46:45)

Where'd you get those shoes?

Racha Pecorero (46:46)

Easy.

Chuck (46:47)

They're from dsw. Because DSW has the exact right shoes for whatever you're into right now. You know, like the sneakers that make office hours feel like happy hour, the boots that turn grocery aisles into runways, and all the styles that show off the many sides of you, from daydreamer to multitasker and everything in between. Because you do it all in really great shoes. Find a shoe for every you at your DSW store or DSW.com.

Rasha (47:16)

Aloha listeners.

Yvette Gentile (47:18)

It's Rasha here and Yvette.

Rasha (47:20)

And if you're like us, you may be looking for some new podcasts to add to your lineup in the new year.

Yvette Gentile (47:25)

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Rasha (47:27)

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Yvette Gentile (47:35)

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Rasha (47:45)

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Yvette Gentile (47:53)

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Rasha (48:02)

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Yvette Gentile (48:09)

That's a u d I o c h u c ck for all podcasts that are Chuck approved. Just like so Supernatural.