HAUNTED: Surrey Ghost Car with And That's Why We Drink

Summary

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So Supernatural – HAUNTED: Surrey Ghost Car with And That's Why We Drink (Oct 31, 2025)

Overview

In this special Halloween episode, So Supernatural hosts Yvette Gentile and Racha Pecorero join forces with Em Schulz and Christine Schiefer from the paranormal-comedy podcast And That's Why We Drink. The episode explores some of the most chilling and baffling cases of ghostly vehicles, haunted passengers, and mysterious “residual energy” phenomena from around the world.

The conversation blends true crime, supernatural lore, personal experiences, and philosophical musings on whether these hauntings are glimpses of past tragedies, echoes in time, or something even more mysterious. Together, the quartet discusses famous and obscure cases—haunted roads, vanishing hitchhikers, and phantom trains—while sharing memorable stories and insights about our fascination with the unexplained.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Concept of Residual Hauntings and Ghost Vehicles

• Ashley Flowers (02:08): Introduces the idea that ghosts might be snapshots of intense moments, “trapped in stasis, like a snapshot of a moment that’s already passed.”
• The group explores whether hauntings are echoes of traumatic events that replay until “found” or resolved.

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2. The Surrey Ghost Car Case (UK, 2002)

• Story Presented by Yvette & Racha
  • Multiple people in Surrey, England, witnessed a maroon car veering off the A3 highway and crashing into a ditch on December 11, 2002.
  • Police found no evidence at first, but after a second search, they uncovered an overgrown, badly rusted car and the skeletal remains of Christopher Chandler, missing since July.
  • Racha: "Would anyone have even found Christopher if all those people hadn’t reported seeing his exact car... months after the accident happened? Had the universe somehow reenacted the accident?" [15:11]
• The incident prompts discussion about hauntings as cries for help or cosmic echoes.
• Christine: “It sucks then, because afterward you feel like, oh, well, now it looks like it was just a ghost... But you witnessed a car crash.” [09:08]

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3. Personal Paranormal Experiences

• Christine Schiefer's Creepy Police Car Encounter [19:28–22:44]
  • As a teen, Christine felt dread pulling up next to a police car at a stoplight. Looking over, she saw the officer had “no nose... just skin,” and an unnaturally wide smile. The car vanished soon after.
  • Christine: "My whole stomach bottomed out. I was petrified. I still remember to this day." [20:53]
• The group reflects on why such experiences linger and the brain’s need to rationalize the unexplainable.

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4. Ghostly Trains and Time-Loop Tragedies

• Yvette recounts the ghost of the 1891 Boston Bridge train disaster in North Carolina—witnessed as a recurring apparition on the tragedy’s anniversary (24:42–27:41).
• In 2010, a real-life ghost hunter was killed investigating the site, mistaking an actual train for the legendary one.
  • Christine: "With paranormal investigating, you think, oh, it's a harmless hobby... But there are actually real life dangers too.” [30:27]

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5. Supernatural Rituals and Safety

• The guests discuss ghost hunting safety and personal rituals—Em relies on boundaries (“do not follow me home!”) and calls on family witchcraft for protection, while Yvette and Racha honor their Hawaiian upbringing by always asking for protection before engaging with the supernatural (33:04–35:11).

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6. Phantom Passengers Around the World

a) Japan’s “Yurei” Spirits After the 2011 Tsunami [38:19–45:00]

• After the Tohoku earthquake and tsunami, taxi drivers reported picking up passengers who vanished en route—often people later found to match descriptions of deceased victims.
• Notable story:
  • Cabbie picked up a woman who, when informed her destination was destroyed, asked “Am I dead?” before vanishing [43:37].
  • Christine: "My hope... is that when she had that realization, ‘am I dead’, that maybe she was able to move on.” [44:21]
• These stories parallel similar legends worldwide, pointing to cultural universality in ghostly encounters after mass tragedy.

b) The Vanishing Hitchhiker [46:18–48:27]

• Arkansas folkloric tale: Driver picks up a rain-soaked woman, brings her home, only to learn she died in a car crash years before. His missing jacket is found draped over her tombstone.

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7. Haunted Roads and Weird Locales

a) Clinton Road, New Jersey [60:08–66:41]

• Reputed as "one of the most haunted roads in the United States"—with stories of phantom trucks, strange weather, ghostly rangers, witches, and a notorious coin-tossing ghost of Dead Man’s Curve.
• Yvette: “The whole 10-mile stretch is full of weird supernatural energy... People notice a black pickup trailing close behind, and then it just disappears.” [65:03]
• Encounters involve seemingly physical interactions (like returned coins), evolving the usual "ghost sighting" trope.

b) The A75 Hauntings (Scotland) [67:52–71:49]

• Truckers repeatedly witness spectral animals and people, even feel their vehicles shake, as sightings intensify along this four-mile stretch, prompting some to quit their profession out of fear.

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8. Urban Legends & Local Paranormal Lore

• Em and the Bunnyman Bridge (Virginia) [53:59–58:29]
  • Local cryptid story about a man in a stitched rabbit suit haunting a secluded bridge; rituals of driving under it at midnight for a supposed sighting.

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9. Philosophical Musings: Are Hauntings Time Loops?

• Yvette introduces Nietzsche’s “eternal recurrence” [73:01]—the idea that time and events repeat infinitely. Are ghosts a glimpse of this recurring timeline, or a blip in the “space-time continuum”?
• Em: “I think a lot of times our ghosts are our future selves looking out for us... when you get a gut feeling, it’s yourself being like, get out of here. I know what’s coming.” [74:06]
• Christine references time as an illusion and the possibility of “crossovers of timelines” as a paranormal explanation [74:55].

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Ashley Flowers:
  • "Is a haunting just a moment that happened once upon a time, replaying over and over again until it finds a way to escape?" [02:26]
• Christine Schiefer:
  • "I take it as now, like a badge of honor. But I don’t think my mother really appreciates that." (On being named after Stephen King’s Christine) [06:56]
• EM Schulz:
  • “If you drive under the Bunnyman Bridge at exactly midnight on Halloween... look out the rear view window, you’d see the Bunnyman standing there and shadows of bunnies hanging over the overpass.” [56:08]
• Yvette:
  • “Is there a time loop that is repetitively on play at that exact certain time and moment?” [72:53]
• Racha:
  • “What kind of world are we living in if there are no more questions left for us to answer? The supernatural... is what keeps all of us going. Right?” [75:35]
• Christine:
  • “Freaking loosely. That is why we drink. Amen. I mean, mic drop.” [76:28]

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Important Timestamps

• 02:08 | Ashley Flowers introduces “residual energy” theory of hauntings
• 07:37 | The Surrey ghost car setup
• 10:47 | Police discover the rusted car and skeleton
• 19:28 | Christine’s personal ghost-car encounter
• 24:42 | The Ghost Train legend and its modern tragedy
• 38:19 | Japanese ghost passengers and 2011 tsunami stories
• 46:18 | The American vanishing hitchhiker legend
• 53:59 | Bunnyman Bridge urban legend (Virginia)
• 60:08 | Clinton Road (NJ) and its haunted history
• 67:52 | Scotland’s haunted A75: vanishing animals/people
• 73:01 | Discussion of Nietzsche’s “eternal recurrence” and time loops

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Tone & Style

The tone throughout is conversational, playful, and respectful—balancing humor (especially between Em and Christine) with sensitivity toward trauma and loss. The hosts uniformly stress a sense of wonder toward the unexplained and close with reflections on the value of curiosity and not always having the answers.

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For Listeners Who Haven’t Tuned In

This episode is a deep, lively, and spooky exploration of the world’s most mysterious ghost vehicle and recurring haunting cases. Expect not just chilling stories but also camaraderie, warmth, and curiosity among the hosts—leaving listeners with more questions than answers, and a healthy respect for the world’s enduring mysteries.

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Listen to more from Racha and Yvette on So Supernatural, and find Em and Christine on And That's Why We Drink.

Transcript

[Yvette Gentile]

Ghostly encounters, unexplained phenomena, chilling conspiracies. All of the mysteries we explore here on so Supernatural are now available ad free. That's right, so Supernatural has officially joined the Crime Junkie Fan Club. So if you crave stories that leave you questioning what's real and want even more mysteries to dive into, join the Crime Junkie Fan club [e-mail] Step into the strange and unexplained with so Supernatural in the Crime Junkie Fan Club today.

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[Racha Pecorero]

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[Christine Schiefer]

There.

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[Ashley Flowers]

When it comes to ghosts and hauntings, we've come across a lot of different theories on this show. One of my personal favorites is the idea that ghosts are residual energy trapped in space. Almost like how smoke will hover in a room with stagnant air, just waiting for an open window to escape. But until it does, it sort of lingers there, existing in this stasis like a snapshot of a moment that's already passed. Which got me wondering, is this what people are actually experiencing during a haunting? A push from a force they can't see? A shadow of a stranger sitting on a bed? The disembodied sound of laughter from another room is a haunting. Just a moment that happened once upon a time in that same space, replaying over and over again until it finds a way to escape. If you asked the people of Surrey, England, back in 2002, they'd probably say we hit the nail on the head. Cause that December, multiple people witnessed what was later referred to as as a ghost crash on a local road. A maroon car swerving and losing control before driving into a ditch. Except when the police arrived, they found no sign of a collision from that day. They did, however, find evidence to suggest a maroon car had crashed there, claiming a life months before. I'm Ashley Flowers, and this is so supernatural with a twist. Because today, Rasha and Yvette have a very special Halloween surprise for you.

[Yvette Gentile]

Welcome back, y'. All. I'm Yvette Gentile.

[Racha Pecorero]

And I'm her sister, Racha Pecorero.

[Yvette Gentile]

And today you are getting double the trouble. As a spooky Halloween surprise, we have invited our friends EM Schulz and Christine Schieffer, who from what? And that's why we drink. Welcome, y'.

[Christine Schiefer]

All. Thank you for having us.

[E.M. Schultz]

Thank you so much. And immediately, a shiver went down my spine. Your speaking voices on. On podcast, they're so powerful. Oh, my gosh. As soon as you said welcome or whatever, I went, oh, my God, there are so much more.

[Christine Schiefer]

When we started our podcast, people were like, em, your laughter sounds like a dolphin or Elmo. And we were like, that's rude.

[Racha Pecorero]

That's what's so funny. Because we started in true crime with root of evil, and. And then facing evil is also supernatural. So we've always been very, like, podcast voice. I'm like, what do you mean you can't. I'm like, what do you mean you can't use sister voices Giggling like our sisters giggle.

[E.M. Schultz]

But well done, you. Immediately, we're hooked. Yes.

[Racha Pecorero]

So honored you're both here. I'm already obsessed with you.

[Yvette Gentile]

Same.

[Christine Schiefer]

Likewise.

[Racha Pecorero]

Yay.

[Christine Schiefer]

Yay.

[Racha Pecorero]

Well, I think we have the perfect topic for all of us to talk about today and tell the so supernatural listeners, because, of course, I know we have all covered a lot of paranormal stories on both of our shows, and we thought today's case would be a great icebreaker for a discussion on a very niche corner of the haunting world, and that's ghost cars and passengers.

[E.M. Schultz]

Very excited.

[Christine Schiefer]

Okay.

[Yvette Gentile]

So do you guys have any stories of your own about this? I do tell.

[E.M. Schultz]

Yes, we do.

[Christine Schiefer]

Not on purpose, but I like to think I was named Christine after the Haunted car. So I do sort of feel like a connection to that. Even though my mom was really annoyed when she realized that that was like the connection. Oh, like the, the murder. The murder car. Everybody said when I was born in the 90s, I don't know the story of the murder car.

[Racha Pecorero]

Christine.

[Christine Schiefer]

Oh, it's a Stephen King novel called Christine. And it's this car that kills people. And my mom, being a German immigrant was like, this is a nice name. And then like apparently in the heyday of that book and the movie and people were just like, oh, I get it. Like the, like the murder. Murder car. And my mom was like, really? Not that though.

[Yvette Gentile]

Can we not?

[E.M. Schultz]

I can't believe so many people had the bravery to just say that.

[Christine Schiefer]

I have no idea. But I take it as now like a badge of honor. But I don't think my mother really appreciates that. So that's kind of where I come from on this. But I do actually have a personal experience I'll share at some point about a ghost sleek car experience.

[Yvette Gentile]

Oh, okay. Do tease. Do tease. Well, it sounds like we have a lot to talk about today, so let's just kick things off with one spine tingling story that I just cannot get out of my head. And that is the case of the Surrey ghost car.

[Racha Pecorero]

Picture this. It's a cold December night, a little after 7pm so the sun's already set. You're driving southbound on a six lane highway coming home from work. You live in a little English town in the county of Surrey, about 50 minutes south of London. There's nothing but cars and trees on either side of you, but you can see an off ramp ahead. So you put on your turn signal and start to merge when suddenly you hear tires screech right next to you. Out of nowhere, this small maroon car just zips right by you, just barely missing your passenger side mirror. It veers off the road, disappearing into a ditch. Yeah.

[E.M. Schultz]

Yeah.

[Racha Pecorero]

You slam your foot on the brakes in time to hear a brutal crash.

[Christine Schiefer]

Oh God.

[Racha Pecorero]

You can't see the car anymore, but its tail lights cast an eerie haze in the dark cold fog. Meanwhile, of course, your heart is literally pounding out of your chest. And that's when you call the police.

[Christine Schiefer]

Yeah, that is. And I'm glad that you walked me through all the steps because I'm like that. I think is that's exactly what I would do, except I'd also be crying and maybe calling my mom too. And being 100%. Yeah.

[Racha Pecorero]

Although our mom has passed away, so I'd be calling Yvette.

[Ashley Flowers]

Oh, no.

[Christine Schiefer]

Okay, well, you can still call her ghost, though. Yeah, you can call my mom. She's.

[Yvette Gentile]

I would still be dialing mom's number.

[Christine Schiefer]

Help me.

[Racha Pecorero]

Yvette would be calling mom for sure.

[Christine Schiefer]

Yeah, no, but that. Okay, I. Like, that's terrifying. I know we're talking about ghostly stuff, so. But my thought is always, like, if you see that or experience that and hear it and see it, like, that's so traumatizing. And then it being a, you know, paranormal event, not to spoil anything, but, like, that sucks then, because then afterward you feel like, oh, well, now it looks like it was just a ghost. And everyone's like, I was just a ghost. But, like, you witnessed a car crash.

[E.M. Schultz]

Like, a really traumatic, a really bad one. Like you. You, I would be assuming. Oh, I just watched someone not be here anymore.

[Yvette Gentile]

Let's get back into the story, because this isn't just some role playing exercise. This actually happened on Wednesday, December 11, 2002, in that English county of Surrey. Local police received not just one, but several calls about a maroon car that ran off the road on the A3 highway. And first responders arrived on the scene at around 7:20pm and a few witnesses, supposedly, they had hung around and pointed out to where the car had slid into the ditch. But when the patrol officers went to the edge of the road, guess what they saw? Nothing. They saw no car, no tail lights, not even a skid mark on the highway or a broken twig to mark the spot where it had plunged over the side.

[Racha Pecorero]

Like, what?

[Yvette Gentile]

Right, Right.

[E.M. Schultz]

If I were one of the cops, I'd be like, you put sentence to the wrong spot. Where is the actual cop, exactly?

[Christine Schiefer]

Like, as one of the witnesses, like, stop gaslighting me, world. I don't know. Like, I just saw that, I swear.

[Yvette Gentile]

Yeah, exactly. So the police probably thought, okay, it's dark. Maybe we just missed something. So they decided to do another search in the daylight that following morning. And that's when, about 20 yards away from where they started their search, they saw a little bit of painted metal poking through the bushes. They pulled back the branches, and that's when they found a maroon Vaxall Astra, which is a pretty standard compact car, buried beneath layers of underbrush. But it's the car's condition that got the police's attention right away. It was clear this car hadn't swerved off the road the night before like many of the callers reported seeing.

[E.M. Schultz]

Sure.

[Yvette Gentile]

No, this had been there for a long time. Y', all, I'm talking Months, at least.

[E.M. Schultz]

No, thank you.

[Yvette Gentile]

And they could tell because the Astro was now rusty and covered in plants. And not like the plants had fallen on top of the car. These plants had literally grown over the car. The keys seemed to still be in the ignition because when the officers tried to turn the car on, the battery was dead.

[Christine Schiefer]

Oh, boy.

[Yvette Gentile]

But the windshield was intact. But it had a giant spider web crack from the impact. Now get this, get this. The driver's side door was caved in and jammed shut, but the passenger door was open, suggesting the driver might have crawled out after the crash.

[Christine Schiefer]

This is so disturbing.

[Racha Pecorero]

I know, right?

[Yvette Gentile]

A few feet away, halfway up the embankment, is where the police found the body of the driver.

[Christine Schiefer]

Oh, no.

[E.M. Schultz]

And was this body.

[Yvette Gentile]

The body was skeletonized. It had been out there so long.

[E.M. Schultz]

Oh, no, no.

[Racha Pecorero]

So if it's skeletonized, it means it's like really decomposing really bad.

[E.M. Schultz]

Yeah, as if a car is rusting. I mean, to the same degree.

[Christine Schiefer]

Right, right.

[Yvette Gentile]

And if weeds are growing up through the car, it has been out there possibly months.

[Christine Schiefer]

This is so creepy.

[Racha Pecorero]

I know. And you've never heard of this before, right?

[Yvette Gentile]

You guys don't know about it? Okay.

[Racha Pecorero]

No, not like the Christine murder car.

[Christine Schiefer]

I mean. Yeah, right.

[Yvette Gentile]

That you're named after, right?

[E.M. Schultz]

One of my best friends grew up in Surrey, and I'm pretty offended. I've never been told.

[Christine Schiefer]

I'm pretty offended on your behalf. Like, what the heck?

[E.M. Schultz]

We've had enough sleepovers. They. They had prime time to tell me a scary story from their hometown.

[Racha Pecorero]

Well, the police end up running the plates through vehicle registration, and they learn the car belongs to a 20, 21 year old named Christopher Chandler. Chandler apparently was already in the police database for being a suspect in a robbery. But that's not all. He was last seen drinking with a friend in West London in July of 2002. And we have to remember, everyone saw this car and they found this car, the decomposed body, skeleton, all the things in December of 2002. So when Christopher's brother hadn't heard from him, he reported his brother missing at that time, in July. At the time, the police suspected he may have skipped town, maybe to escape prosecution for the burglary. But now they knew that wasn't the case. Christopher had clearly died in a car accident months ago. And of course, the police, their next step was to check Christopher's phone records to see if there was a way to tell exactly when the accident happened. Now, even though it was, you know, kind of archaic all the way back in 2002, even though I can't believe that was over 20 years ago. As I say that cell phones did exist.

[E.M. Schultz]

They were horror story on its own.

[Racha Pecorero]

Well, we do have record that he did make a single call that night, and it was to his brother on July 16, 2002. The call lasted only a second, and his brother never even knew that he made the call.

[E.M. Schultz]

Ooh, that's trauma all by itself.

[Racha Pecorero]

So you have to wonder, would anyone have even found Christopher if all those people hadn't reported seeing his exact car, that maroon car skid off the road months after the accident happened. Had the universe somehow reenacted the accident?

[Christine Schiefer]

Yes.

[Racha Pecorero]

I mean, I believe the universe would do something like that.

[Yvette Gentile]

I do, too.

[E.M. Schultz]

Yeah. And I wonder if. Was it the anniversary of. Or something like, why is it happening on that day?

[Ashley Flowers]

Right.

[Yvette Gentile]

I mean.

[Racha Pecorero]

I mean, they don't know exactly, but they knew that he made that last call in July. That's all they have. Right.

[Yvette Gentile]

And you have that energy that is lingering. Right. Of that pain of him trying to cause.

[Racha Pecorero]

More than one person saw it happen. And I should also mention there hadn't been any. Any other sightings of the phantom car before or after December 11th.

[Christine Schiefer]

Just that once.

[E.M. Schultz]

Yeah. Oh, my gosh. So, okay, that feels like it was an anniversary or someone on the road.

[Christine Schiefer]

Had some sort of important. Yeah.

[Racha Pecorero]

I even have, like, we call it chicken skin in Hawaii, but I have.

[Christine Schiefer]

Goosebumps all over my body.

[Racha Pecorero]

Even though I know this story, it's still very chilling.

[Christine Schiefer]

Yeah.

[Racha Pecorero]

So what do we think? Was it a cry for help? Was he trying to be found? Like, you're saying, Em. Like, was it the anniversary of the crash or. I'm curious to know what you think.

[Christine Schiefer]

Yeah, I mean, I think he was trying to get somebody to find him and, like, close that chapter somehow or just, like, answer a question that for some reason needed to be answered and makes you wonder, like, the timing of it. But it's like, maybe. Yeah, like Emma said, like, maybe somebody on the road that day was the one who needed to. I mean, I think there's probably something above my pay grade. Quantum physics. Why the heck it happened on a certain day? I don't know. That's just, like, so. Because I was gonna say, well, maybe it happened all the time, and this is just the time that, like, enough people called.

[E.M. Schultz]

Yeah. For all we know, maybe, like, maybe his brother had just driven on the road or something, and it kind of tapped into something. I don't know.

[Racha Pecorero]

Ooh. I hadn't even thought.

[Yvette Gentile]

That's a good one.

[Christine Schiefer]

Yeah.

[E.M. Schultz]

Or someone that would have cared about him was nearby and he felt like.

[Yvette Gentile]

This is the moment that is that I love that you said that because that is always my thought process is why these given people at that given time. Right. Are they just themselves very intuitive human beings where they're put in that exact moment and they can sense it and why someone else, you know, didn't at all? Right. Those are the questions that I have. Over the years, Blue Apron has shipped more than 530 million meal kits. For the first time, customers can shop Blue Apron a la carte, ordering what they want, when they want with no subscription required. Discover new low prep recipes and pre made meals that let you get good food on the table in a pinch. With more than 100 weekly meals, more than double their previous menu, and 75% of them customizable, customers now have more choice than ever. Growing up in Hawaii, miso was a staple in our household and that's why my new favorite meal, Miso Glazed Salmon, y'. All. It is super easy and so delicious. Try the new Blue Apron today and get 40% off your first two [e-mail] with code SUPERNATURAL40. Terms and conditions apply. Visit blue apron.com terms for more.

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[Racha Pecorero]

Christine, I need to hear your story that you teased a little bit at the top of the episode.

[Christine Schiefer]

I'm so glad you asked because it's something I've never talked about and it's not because it wasn't something I wanted to talk about. It just was never relevant. And then I heard ghost cars and ghost passengers and I went oh, okay.

[Racha Pecorero]

You're like I've got a story for you.

[Christine Schiefer]

Finally I get somebody to tell. It's not even like super interesting. It's really short story, but I was driving to school one day in high school and I like I just suddenly was pulling up to this light. I drove this path every day through Cincinnati and I pulled up to this light and there was this police car to the right and for some Reason? I just felt this dread. Like, don't pull up all the way to the window. Like, just, I mean, you know. And it was a police car, but I was also 15, so what did I know? Yeah, don't do anything wrong. Yeah, like, don't look right.

[Racha Pecorero]

Don't look at me.

[Christine Schiefer]

Don't look at me. My registration. Tired. I don't know, but it wasn't really that. It was just. I had this, like, weird, ominous, like, chilling feeling. And as we started as a light turned green, I was, like, waiting for him to go and he wouldn't go. And I was like, okay. So I was like, well, I have to go. So I start driving. And as I'm trying to drive past, I, of course, look over, and I can see his face is just, like, trained on me. And, like, he's already waiting for me to drive by. And he has this huge smile on his face, but he has no nose.

[Racha Pecorero]

Oh.

[Christine Schiefer]

Like, it's just skin. I know.

[E.M. Schultz]

Are you. What?

[Christine Schiefer]

His nose is, like, not there. His eyes are, like, too far apart. There's like, this giant smile. And he looks right at me. And my whole. I mean, I still remember to this day I'm, like, sweating. My whole stomach bottomed out. And I was, like, petrified. I mean, petrified.

[Racha Pecorero]

And that's not a human.

[Christine Schiefer]

My brain went. I knew it. Like, I knew I wasn't supposed to look in that car. And, oh, my God, I drove past and I was like, oh, I should look at the license, of course. And then I'm, like, kind of looking, and of course he's gone. The car's gone. I don't know. I mean, he might have turned away. I don't know. But, like, I was thankful he was gone. Cause I was like, don't follow me, please. Yeah.

[E.M. Schultz]

Ten years of friendship.

[Racha Pecorero]

Not once you decided to tell em.

[Christine Schiefer]

Excuse me? Yeah, well, you know, Em, your friend from Surrey, and I have been waiting to tell you.

[Yvette Gentile]

Oh, touche.

[Christine Schiefer]

Well, I think I was just in a place where I was 15 and I told my mom. She's like, okay. Like, he probably just, like, looked at you funny.

[E.M. Schultz]

And, like.

[Racha Pecorero]

Did your mom brush it off?

[Christine Schiefer]

Yes, completely. And, like, so I just kind of brushed it aside. And I thought, like, maybe I exaggerated it in my mind. I don't know. But there was something about where there was. No, no. I mean, it was like, okay. And when I was a kid, I had this horrible nightmare that I was in my mom's bed, and she turned around and she had no face. Like, it was just all Skin over.

[E.M. Schultz]

What's going on?

[Christine Schiefer]

Okay. And Em is freaking out over here. Em's like, I just woke up. Why are you doing this? It's always reminded me of that event because it had a very similar, like, you know, a safe person, like a parent or like a police officer. And it just was one of those moments where I went like, hm, that's bad. And I don't want to think about it anymore. So that was my ghost car experience or alien. I don't know what the heck it was.

[E.M. Schultz]

I remember at the top of this when you were like, it's not even like that big of a story.

[Christine Schiefer]

Well, it doesn't feel like it in my head.

[Yvette Gentile]

It sounds very big right now.

[Christine Schiefer]

Sounds When I say it out loud.

[Racha Pecorero]

Oh, my goodness.

[Yvette Gentile]

Oh, my goodness. Well, I don't even know how to top that story, but I do have another one that I found. Okay. It's not about a ghostly car, but an entire ghost train. It's around 2:30am on August 27, 1891. That morning, a seven car train leaves the station in Statesville, North Carolina, with more than 50 people on board. It's pitch dark out, so the train's engineer is a guy named William West. And he can barely see the track in front of him. But just five minutes after leaving the station at 2:35am he feels this jolt. Then he hears this horrible screech like steel is being ripped in two. The entire train leaps off the tracks just as it's crossing over the Boston Bridge. All six cars and the engine fall 60ft before hitting the creek below. Yeah. And 22 people died that night. But miraculously, nearly three dozen people survived. And those who were able to walked three miles back back to town to get help.

[E.M. Schultz]

Ow. Oh, my God.

[Yvette Gentile]

I mean, that is devastating.

[E.M. Schultz]

Oh, my gosh.

[Racha Pecorero]

But there's more. So the Boston crash became one of North Carolina's most infamous train wrecks, as you can imagine. But it didn't become legendary until the year 1941. And here's why. 50 years to the day, on the anniversary of the tragedy of that train wreck, two travelers named Pat and Larry Hayes are driving with their kids to a vacation somewhere in the mountains. It's right after midnight, and their kids are fast asleep in the.

[Christine Schiefer]

This is. That's the first mistake. All of that is the first mistake. Nothing good can come of this.

[Racha Pecorero]

They're on Buffalo Shoals Road, which runs parallel to the railway line, when suddenly Larry hears a big pop. And he feels the car shake. It's a flat tire. So he pulls over to the side of the road where there's a clear view of the Boston Bridge. Careful not to wake the kids, of course, Larry hurries off on foot back to Statesville to get some help, since we're assuming he doesn't have a spare tire.

[E.M. Schultz]

Sure.

[Racha Pecorero]

And meanwhile, Pat waits patiently with the kids back in the car. You know, she glances up occasionally at the darkened bridge several hundred feet away. And around 2:35am she sees a train speeding across the bridge.

[E.M. Schultz]

Oh my God.

[Racha Pecorero]

Yeah. At first, of course, she thinks nothing of it. I mean, there are train tracks right there, right? Until she hears a terrible screeching sound and sees the train launch itself over the tracks. Then she hears the agonizing screams of the victims.

[Christine Schiefer]

My God.

[Racha Pecorero]

Pat leaps out of the car to get a better look, and she sees the crash locomotive, the actual train, in the creek below her.

[E.M. Schultz]

Oh my God.

[Racha Pecorero]

Just as she's about to freak out, a car pulls up and her husband Larry jumps out, you know, with someone to help him fix the tire. Pat grabs Larry and just points to the creek. She doesn't even say anything. But now the train is gone.

[Christine Schiefer]

It's a gaslighting. I mean, come on. So toxic someone else. So toxic. Someone else has to confirm this. The kids are asleep. Like, I know the kids are asleep.

[Racha Pecorero]

She's the only one.

[E.M. Schultz]

You don't even have the kids to. To fall back on here.

[Racha Pecorero]

Oh yeah, like we need the two witnesses. Well, there's no wreckage, there's no screams, and just the sound of crickets and the peaceful trickle of the creek. Pat cannot explain what she's just seen. And since she's not from the area, she's never even heard of the Boston train crash. And neither has Larry. It isn't until later, when she speaks to someone at a local train station, that she learns about the actual tragedy. Now discuss.

[Christine Schiefer]

Imagine that moment where they're like, and it's the 50 year anniversary. And she's like, well, well, well, I.

[E.M. Schultz]

Have a therapist named Jordan. And Jordan would immediately be getting a phone call.

[Racha Pecorero]

And Jordan, I would.

[E.M. Schultz]

Jordan, I would make this whole event my entire personality if I witnessed a whole train crash. And I mean, I would at least be up until three in the morning googling, like, has anyone else experienced this? Like, I would be deranged for at least 24 hours.

[Yvette Gentile]

Yeah, well, I went on a deep dive into this story. And as a matter of fact, when that happens, you know, when her husband and the guy show up and they don't, there's nothing there. She faints she passes out.

[Christine Schiefer]

Yeah.

[Yvette Gentile]

Like in trauma, her body just breaks down, you know, which rightfully so I think I would be the same, like.

[Christine Schiefer]

Oh yeah. Also I feel like your brain in these scenarios, like, especially when you see something paranormal or something just even plain old traumatic, like it tries to write a narrative that makes sense. And I feel like in this case it was sort of like just unplug me, plug me back in.

[Yvette Gentile]

Yeah.

[Christine Schiefer]

Like I'm just gonna faint and like start over, you know, but it's like I'm sure if we like do a quick reset, but like I would just feel so resentful that like, I swear I saw this and I'm deeply traumatized. I heard people screaming in agony and now everyone's like, there's nothing there.

[Yvette Gentile]

Yeah. I mean, I would be the same as you am. Like I would. This would stay with me for the rest of my life.

[E.M. Schultz]

Everyone would know.

[Yvette Gentile]

Yeah.

[E.M. Schultz]

For sure. And also like, can you imagine what year was this? That they have phones then? Did they?

[Racha Pecorero]

1941.

[E.M. Schultz]

Yeah. Oh, no. Well, because my, my next thought was like, imagine knowing that you've got these kids in the car so you can't leave them. But like more thinking of like, do I run and save people and leave behind, stay with my kids and just watch these people die and I could save, I mean, it would be such a. I would never recover. So.

[Christine Schiefer]

Yeah, I think we'd all faint probably.

[Yvette Gentile]

Yeah. It would be like just, just fade.

[Racha Pecorero]

I'm a father.

[E.M. Schultz]

Just to check out of the situation.

[Christine Schiefer]

Just become unconscious. Yeah.

[Yvette Gentile]

Yeah. Okay. Well, after that, the Boston Bridge becomes the stuff obviously of ghostly legends. Some people say that each year on August 27th at 2:35am you can catch a glimpse of the train plunging to its demise. Although some people took that story a little too seriously and they paid a deadly price. Listen to this. In 2010, on the 119th anniversary of the crash, a 29 year old paranormal investigator named Charles Kaiser and two of his colleagues decided to investigate the phantom train. They walked onto the bridge on the evening of August 26th and waited for the signs of the apparition. And at some point during the night, they finally heard it. The roar of the locomotive. The ghost hunters peered anxiously down the tracks. But unfortunately, the train they saw wasn't a specter.

[E.M. Schultz]

Oh, it was a real train.

[Yvette Gentile]

It was a real train. Kaiser pushed one of his friends out of the way, but he wasn't fast enough to dodge the train himself. And he was struck and killed instantly.

[Christine Schiefer]

Oh, my God.

[Yvette Gentile]

Lord. I mean, that is a Horrific.

[Christine Schiefer]

Way to go.

[Yvette Gentile]

Did you guys ever heard story?

[Christine Schiefer]

I don't know the story. Do you? Em.

[E.M. Schultz]

No. No, no. Oh, my gosh.

[Christine Schiefer]

I feel like with paranormal investigating, you think like, oh, it's like a harmless hobby. And then, you know.

[Yvette Gentile]

Yeah.

[Christine Schiefer]

Even going into like, abandoned buildings and you think like, oh, spooky. But it's like they're actually like real life dangers too.

[E.M. Schultz]

I mean, Christine, about Bobby Mackey's.

[Christine Schiefer]

Yeah, but right.

[Racha Pecorero]

Oh, right, right.

[Christine Schiefer]

We went to Bobby Mackey's and while we were there, well, on our way there, the. The person we were going to do. We're doing an overnight ghost hunt. And we got a call from our contact. She said, actually, can you guys just hold off for like another 30 minutes? The police are here because someone broke in. We can't find them. And we were like, hey, I don't think so. And we finally got there and they're like, well, we couldn't find them anywhere. So anyway, have a good lockdown, like for the rest of the night. We'd be like, oh, my God, a ghost. And then we were like, or worse, could it be the intruder? Like, which is worse, you know, I mean. Anyway, so there. There are, I guess real dangers and trains are one of those things. I feel like that get. It's like underrated how dangerous these things are. Especially like, if you're not used to being around train tracks. Yeah, that's just. That's just.

[E.M. Schultz]

Yeah. I feel like I would have at least checked before ghost setting if it was an active railway, I feel like.

[Yvette Gentile]

Right. Yeah.

[E.M. Schultz]

I'm surprised, like, no one thought, oh, other trains come here too, besides the ghost one, you know? Right.

[Yvette Gentile]

Yeah.

[Racha Pecorero]

Oh, my God.

[E.M. Schultz]

Yeah. When I started ghost hunting back in 2011 or 2012.

[Racha Pecorero]

So when you were 10. Okay.

[E.M. Schultz]

I was in college. I was in college and I. But thank you so much, skin. Appreciate that. Thank you. I've been ghosting since then, and one of my first times that I was ghosting, I was also giving a tour at the same location. And usually the town knew what we were doing and they were supposed to, but I guess the park ranger on site wasn't aware of what was going on and called the police and ended up detaining me in front of my entire tour group. It was so embarrassing. So embarrassing.

[Christine Schiefer]

Embarrassing. Or just like super cool.

[E.M. Schultz]

Since nothing happened? Super cool. But in the moment, I was like, why am I in a cop car right now? I was like, for ghost hunting. And I. And we have every right to be here.

[Christine Schiefer]

Wow.

[E.M. Schultz]

Yeah. Not only can it Be dangerous. You might just run into, like, some dumb people. So look out, you know, you might get detained. I don't know.

[Christine Schiefer]

At least your cop had a face.

[Yvette Gentile]

Yeah, actually, I didn't know.

[Christine Schiefer]

Perhaps he did not. I'm not sure.

[E.M. Schultz]

He had his nose and eyes. Yeah.

[Christine Schiefer]

That's good.

[Racha Pecorero]

That's a good start.

[Christine Schiefer]

That's. That's a good start.

[Racha Pecorero]

I do have a question for you though, Em. Circling back to ghost hunting since 2011. So messing with the supernatural, obviously, like, that can be a scary thing. Like, it can be deadly at times. Were you always drawn to it? Do you do any, like, ritual before.

[Yvette Gentile]

To ask for protection?

[Racha Pecorero]

Are you just, like, all the way in?

[E.M. Schultz]

I've been into it. I've wanted to be a ghost hunter since I was 7, when I saw my first ghost, which was my. My grandpa. Um, as for rituals, I don't know. I always kind of had some, like, blind confidence that I'd be fine because my. My stepmom is a second generation witch. She's been practicing her whole life. And so in my mind, if I. If something ever happened, I would just call her and it would just get handled. I don't know how true or safe.

[Christine Schiefer]

Hey, I need her phone number too.

[Yvette Gentile]

She's got me.

[Christine Schiefer]

Please, like, I'm like, I have a lot of people on your roster. Your Rolodex. I need to be calm.

[Yvette Gentile]

Jordan.

[Racha Pecorero]

Jordan.

[E.M. Schultz]

Just call my step grandparents who taught her. Yeah, so I've. It's. It's very nice to have her on call if I need something, but usually this is probably very irresponsible if you're talking to someone who practices much more than I do. But my only ritual, which Christine likes to poke fun at sometimes, is that as I'm leaving any haunted place, I just say goodbye. Like a bajillion times. I just go, goodbye, goodbye, goodbye, goodbye.

[Christine Schiefer]

You can't come home.

[E.M. Schultz]

Goodbye.

[Racha Pecorero]

Please don't follow me.

[Yvette Gentile]

Please leave.

[E.M. Schultz]

Yeah, I just kind of. I'm just so clear and like, do not follow me home. And so far it has worked. Knock on everything, but yeah.

[Racha Pecorero]

Seriously. Manifestation, my friend.

[Christine Schiefer]

Yeah. You just set a boundary, you know? Yeah. You know, Right, right.

[Yvette Gentile]

Set your own clear boundary. Yeah.

[Racha Pecorero]

Well, there is no question that hunting the supernatural comes with risks. The reason I asked you that question, Em, is because the way Eyvette and I were raised in Hawaii, like, we were always taught 100% to respect the supernatural, especially by our mom. So we always ask for protection. Yeah.

[E.M. Schultz]

You know? Yeah.

[Racha Pecorero]

Or do a prayer or something. Something.

[E.M. Schultz]

Christine and I We've only ever been like super respectful and we're just like, I'm not about that. And especially if I don't want you to follow me home, why would I give you.

[Ashley Flowers]

Right.

[E.M. Schultz]

So, you know, yeah, let's all be.

[Christine Schiefer]

Cool and chill, you know, like, why would I scream at you and punch the wall of your own house?

[E.M. Schultz]

Yeah.

[Christine Schiefer]

Just because you're dead, that feels like unfair.

[Racha Pecorero]

But yeah, we couldn't agree with you more.

[Yvette Gentile]

Yeah. For us, it's like you just, you don't play around with stuff like that, you know, it in the most recent respectful way possible. 100% same with us. Yeah.

[Racha Pecorero]

And we have to say too, sometimes it's hard to exactly say what's doing the haunting, what type of entity you are coming across. Are we the ones searching for answers or is the supernatural searching for us?

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[Yvette Gentile]

All right, well, we're joined today by E.M. schultz and Christine Schiefer from And that's why we drink. And so far you have heard a couple of really cool stories about phantom vehicles that seem to replay their final moments. But I want to branch out from there because it's not just the cars and the trains that appear to be haunted or cursed. It seems like it's the people who died in them. Right. These apparitions that keep showing up long after the events have passed. Meaning maybe it's more about the passengers and their tragic deaths. Right. That this keeps occurring.

[Christine Schiefer]

I mean, that makes sense, especially with like very dramatic ones, you know, that are actually Historically, like accurate. I feel like that's a good evidence.

[Racha Pecorero]

Well, I. I have one that I believe is historically accurate.

[Christine Schiefer]

Oh.

[Racha Pecorero]

So this particular story comes from Japan. But before we get there, I think it's important to have a little bit of cultural context text for this one.

[Christine Schiefer]

So.

[Racha Pecorero]

I only speak a little Japanese, but I will say, even though we only speak a little bit, my sister and I understand the Japanese culture. It's very prevalent in Hawaii. I'm way into this one. So in Japan, the oldest indigenous religion is called Shinto, which translates in English to the way of the gods. Now, there's a belief in Shintoism that when you die, your soul travels to the underworld, which is a mythical place.

[Yvette Gentile]

Called Yomi no Kuni.

[Racha Pecorero]

However, it's said that some people get stuck on their way there and forever remain trapped on our earthly plane. So those are usually people who have died violently, unnaturally, or left unresolved business behind on earth. Souls that either can't move on or won't. When that happens, they become a very specific kind of Japanese spirit called a yure. These angry spirits can still interact with our world and often take revenge upon the living.

[Christine Schiefer]

Oh boy.

[Racha Pecorero]

Yeah. They can cause accidents, disease, madness, even death. So let's just say it's bad luck to meet one.

[Christine Schiefer]

Yeah, I'll say.

[Racha Pecorero]

Typically they like to haunt cemeteries or places that they died, but sometimes they get lost.

[E.M. Schultz]

Like literally lost.

[Racha Pecorero]

In fact, a lot of these strange travelers were seen after the Tohoku earthquake in 2011, one of the worst natural disasters in Japanese history.

[Christine Schiefer]

Oh boy. Lost spirits. Oh boy. Okay, that's tragic. Scary answer all at once.

[E.M. Schultz]

Yeah.

[Yvette Gentile]

And we actually had family members that lived in Japan during this time.

[E.M. Schultz]

So really were.

[Yvette Gentile]

Yeah. Watching the news and, you know, calling relatives non stop. It was a 9.0 magnitude.

[E.M. Schultz]

I can't even. I can't even comprehend.

[Yvette Gentile]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it happened on March 11th at 2:46pm it created a massive 33 foot tsunami which slammed into the eastern shore of Japan, affecting hundreds of miles of coastline. And in some places, the tidal wave reached six miles inland. I mean, that is so sad. Crazy, right?

[E.M. Schultz]

Again, can't comprehend. Yeah.

[Yvette Gentile]

It killed almost 20,000 people, destroyed the thousands of homes, and triggered a partial meltdown at the Fukushima nuclear power plant. So when I say disaster, that is a understatement. And in the aftermath of this horrible, horrible tragedy, people struggled to rebuild. You got to think about it. Many people lost their homes, they lost their jobs, and most importantly, they lost their loved ones. The thing is, some of Those family members were said to make a shocking reappearance time and time again.

[Racha Pecorero]

Journalist Richard Lloyd Perry documented some of these reappearances in his book called Ghosts of the Tsunami. Many of these stories were reported to him by a priest named Reverend Kaneda. Kaneda lived and worked at a Zen Buddhist temple in Kurihara, and that is in the northeastern part of the country. He and a group of priests traveled the coast after the tsunami, you know, to comfort survivors. So as people described their terror and their grief, they also reported supernatural run ins with the souls of those lost in the waves. And he found an overwhelming amount of anecdotal evidence.

[E.M. Schultz]

Oh, boy.

[Racha Pecorero]

For example, a cab driver in Sendai, a city north of Fukushima, said he picked up a man one day not long after the tsunami. The man gave the taxi driver an address near the coast. But about halfway through the drive, the cabbie glanced at his rearview mirror and noticed the passenger. He gone. Really, he was gone.

[E.M. Schultz]

Oh my God. Oh my God.

[Racha Pecorero]

He had literally vanished mid drive, even though they'd never stopped. So of course, the cab driver was morbidly curious, so he kept going to the address that the man originally gave him.

[E.M. Schultz]

Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God.

[Racha Pecorero]

Guess where he pulled up?

[Christine Schiefer]

Where?

[Racha Pecorero]

He pulled up to a house that was completely leveled by the tsunami and left in ruins.

[E.M. Schultz]

Oh my God. He just wanted to go home. Oh my God.

[Yvette Gentile]

He just wanted to be just. Yes.

[Racha Pecorero]

Five years after the disaster, a 22 year old sociology student named Yuka Kudo heard rumors about these phantom passengers and decided to make it the subject of her senior thesis project. Yuko went out on the streets to interview about 100 taxi drivers or so. She went all over Ishinomaki, a coastal city about five hours north of Tokyo. Every time she asked the same question. Did you have any unusual experiences after the tsunami? Out of the hundred taxicab drivers, seven of them had supernatural stories to share. One driver in his 50s said a woman got into his car near the train station and asked to be taken to an area he absolutely knew was decimated by the flood. When he told her that, she asked in a trembling voice, quote, am I dead?

[E.M. Schultz]

Oh my God.

[Racha Pecorero]

I turned around to get a better look at her, but the woman had simply vanished.

[Christine Schiefer]

Oh my God.

[Racha Pecorero]

I know. I wish you all could see em right now.

[Yvette Gentile]

All of our listeners.

[Racha Pecorero]

I know.

[Yvette Gentile]

I know.

[E.M. Schultz]

What?

[Christine Schiefer]

It's a delightful vision. Eyes closed, hand above their head, like, what is that like, about to faint, like that lady at the roadside. Oh my God.

[E.M. Schultz]

That's. I Was. And also, even if she was alive and asked that question, I mean, with enough tragedy going on, I would imagine there's some, like, freak out. There's no right word for this, like a mob. Mob mentality of, like, where do I stand? What do I. Like, I could.

[Christine Schiefer]

I could see people like, your whole life's been shattered.

[E.M. Schultz]

Right, Right.

[Racha Pecorero]

Yeah, yeah.

[Christine Schiefer]

I just. My hope for that is like, hopefully that when she had that realization, like, am I dead? That it. Maybe she was able to. You know what I mean? Like, she was like, wait. And it, like, almost brought her to the. I mean, that's my hope. I don't know.

[E.M. Schultz]

Yeah, great point.

[Christine Schiefer]

That's how I. Ever the optimist I am.

[Racha Pecorero]

The other six drivers had similar stories about picking up clients who disappeared mid route. It seemed like these ghosts, you know, Christine, like you were saying, they were trying to find their way home, you know, even though their home didn't exist anymore and maybe find peace and move on. Right?

[Yvette Gentile]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Christine Schiefer]

You know, that's really interesting because I feel like so many different cultures have a similar understanding of tragic incidents resulting in ghosts. I mean, you even go to, like, M's. Part of the M's hometown area, like that colonial. I don't know what's. What's over there.

[Racha Pecorero]

Where are you from, Em.

[E.M. Schultz]

Oh, I'm from. I'm from Virginia.

[Christine Schiefer]

Just like, you know, you got battlefields. You got all the haunted places that I've seen.

[E.M. Schultz]

You've got a lot of soldiers, a lot of ghosts.

[Yvette Gentile]

You got a lot of energy, like.

[Christine Schiefer]

Trauma and death and, like, despair. And it's like, I. I can. It's fascinating that, like, different cultures have developed, like, their, you know, different ways of speaking, basically about the same concept. Yeah, yeah.

[Yvette Gentile]

I mean, we go back to that thing again, right? And it's that. It's that residual energy that keeps showing up after certain traumas. Right.

[Christine Schiefer]

It's like, replays it. Like it's replayed.

[E.M. Schultz]

Yeah.

[Yvette Gentile]

And it's on a loop.

[E.M. Schultz]

In some ways, I'm. I want to be grateful that at least they don't realize that they passed, so maybe they didn't have to suffer on their way out. But then the other part is like, oh, well, now they're stuck here because they don't know if they're alive or not. So.

[Yvette Gentile]

Yeah. Kind of a catch 22.

[E.M. Schultz]

Yeah.

[Yvette Gentile]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, another version of these spectral passengers that I've heard about even beyond Japan is the ghostly hitchhiker.

[Racha Pecorero]

I have.

[Yvette Gentile]

I have these. I get really nervous when I talk about hitchhikers, Because I am not the one to ever hitchhike or even pick up a hitchhiker.

[Racha Pecorero]

I'm just saying, unless it's Madame Pele in Hawaii, you have to pick her up.

[Christine Schiefer]

Oh, I've heard that story. Yes.

[E.M. Schultz]

Thank you for telling me.

[Racha Pecorero]

You're welcome. We got you.

[Christine Schiefer]

We got you.

[Yvette Gentile]

Okay, so I know of one story, though I'm not sure when it's from. It's about a man who was driving along Arkansas's Rural Highway 365. He reportedly picked up a young woman in a light colored dress one night. She was standing on the side of the road in the pouring rain. She gave him her home address and he drove her there. But when he arrived, the young woman had vanished from his back seat. And oddly enough, the driver's coat was missing too.

[Christine Schiefer]

What?

[Yvette Gentile]

Yeah. So he decided to go knock on the door to the house anyway, and an elderly woman answered. When he shared what happened, she told him the girl sounded a lot like her daughter. Oh, yeah. Only she had died in a car accident many years earlier. She said there were others before him who claimed to have given her a ride with the same result. So the driver went to visit the girl's grave after that. And that's when he found his missing jacket draped over her tombstone.

[E.M. Schultz]

You've gotta be kidding me.

[Christine Schiefer]

My God.

[Yvette Gentile]

So it sounds like it's similar to what the taxi drivers experienced in Japan. Right? A lost soul just trying to get back to their loved ones, trying to get back home.

[Christine Schiefer]

That's so sad. And then like to think with the jacket, like my. At least in my mind, it's like the driver said, oh, you're freezing, you're all wet. Like, here's my coat.

[Racha Pecorero]

Right.

[Christine Schiefer]

You know, that's at least as in my head, like, she took the coat because she's out in the rain. And then so it's like a thank you. Like, puts it back. I don't know. It's just so sweet and tragic.

[E.M. Schultz]

Yeah.

[Yvette Gentile]

And at the same time, it's like, I'm really here. It's proof. Right?

[Christine Schiefer]

Yes. Yeah, right too.

[Yvette Gentile]

Yeah.

[Racha Pecorero]

Yeah.

[Christine Schiefer]

Wow.

[E.M. Schultz]

That always blows my mind when there's a true interaction where, like, it's one thing to see a ghost, but neither of you interact. But when there's actual conversation, it's like, how are both of you intelligently having this experience? And what way are you perceiving this ghost? Which are you? Do you know you're dead? Or do you think we're just two people talking amongst each other? Right.

[Yvette Gentile]

Right.

[Christine Schiefer]

So it's mind boggling.

[Ashley Flowers]

Yeah.

[Christine Schiefer]

Yeah.

[Racha Pecorero]

Fascinating.

[Yvette Gentile]

Yeah, It's. It's never ending. I always telling Raja, like. Like, who. Who are the real ghost and who are the aliens? Sometimes. Like, are. Are we the aliens? Are we the ghost or. And they are the real people? Which is.

[Ashley Flowers]

Right.

[Christine Schiefer]

Talk about above my pay grade right now. I think that's another quantum physics.

[Racha Pecorero]

Exactly.

[Christine Schiefer]

Who are the real ghosts? Oh, God. I'm not gonna.

[Yvette Gentile]

I'm just saying. I know. Okay, so let's just say home isn't always the destination. Just take this story out of India. This is in 2007. Two friends named Sanju and Anad were traveling from Mumbai to a seaside resort called Murud around 11.30pm they were nearing their destination, but they were the only car on the road, which is why they pulled over to help two strangers who look stranded. And it just so happened to be a man and a woman. The exhausted couple said their names were Ravi and Sunita and they were newlyweds on their honeymoon and they had had, I guess, a rough evening. They said they had rented a tandem bike for the day, but it had gotten a flat tire. Their resort was five miles away, and they didn't want to walk in the. In the dark, which, hello, I can't blame them either.

[Christine Schiefer]

I don't want to bike in the dark, let alone. And what else?

[E.M. Schultz]

When it's a tandem bike. Both your bikes are broken. Yeah.

[Christine Schiefer]

You're also about to, like, get divorced on your honeymoon if you're on a tandem bike. Lost in the exact. Like, please. That's not gonna be. That's not gonna end well.

[E.M. Schultz]

Bad memory.

[Racha Pecorero]

I've never been with my wife on a tandem.

[Christine Schiefer]

It's. Don't do it. I mean, I haven't either. I just can assume it's probably my parents did one time in their divorce, so I feel like that's.

[Racha Pecorero]

Oh, my goodness.

[Christine Schiefer]

For all of us. I don't think that's what did it, to be clear, but it can't.

[Racha Pecorero]

Hysterical.

[Yvette Gentile]

Just. Just saying. Right, Christina?

[Christine Schiefer]

Just saying Amen.

[Yvette Gentile]

Okay. Well, anyhow, nothing seemed unusual there. There was even a broken tandem bike laying by the side of the road. Right. So Sanji told them, just hop in. Right. Okay. And on the way, they chatted a bit. And Sanju thought the couple had, you know, a pretty good sense of humor. And they had bonded over the fact that Ravi and Sunita were also from Mumbai. And after a few minutes, the conversation died down, but Sanju could still hear them whispering to each other in the back seat. And he didn't remember exactly when, but at some point, he checked his rear view mirror and the couple had vanished.

[E.M. Schultz]

Both of them.

[Yvette Gentile]

They're gone. They're gone. But get this. He and Anad could still hear them whisper. Whispering, no. Yes.

[Christine Schiefer]

Oh, my gosh. What the heck?

[Yvette Gentile]

So you can imagine, right? Sanju slammed on the brakes and the two men leapt out of there, terrified. Like, rightfully so, because I would be doing the same thing. Get me the hell out of here. And as they started running, they heard laughter and a scream coming from the car. They kept running until they actually reached a police station. And there, the cops on duty told them that Ravi and Sunita were honeymooners who had hitchhike a ride with the wrong person many, many years ago and had been found brutally murdered. This is why I don't hitchhike. I'm just saying.

[Christine Schiefer]

I mean.

[Racha Pecorero]

Yeah, this is exactly why.

[Yvette Gentile]

And since then, other people reportedly encountered the couple on the road as well.

[Christine Schiefer]

Wow.

[Yvette Gentile]

Who may have been taking that same doomed ride over and over for eternity.

[Christine Schiefer]

Oh, my God, that's so tragic.

[Yvette Gentile]

Like, what can you imagine?

[Christine Schiefer]

I mean, to be having to, like, relive this over and over and over. And then the whispering. And you wonder, like, is that what happened in the car when they were.

[E.M. Schultz]

They. Did they realize that they made a mistake and they're whispering about.

[Christine Schiefer]

That's so dark.

[E.M. Schultz]

Yeah, I know that's, like, messed up, but I can't imagine them whispering about anything. Happy. I think they were like, no.

[Yvette Gentile]

Right. Because of the circumstances. But, yeah, that's.

[E.M. Schultz]

Oh, man.

[Yvette Gentile]

So do not hitchhike, y'.

[Racha Pecorero]

All.

[E.M. Schultz]

Yeah, please.

[Christine Schiefer]

You never.

[E.M. Schultz]

You never hear about vanishing ghosts where there's, like, two of them. It's like.

[Christine Schiefer]

Oh, that's a good point.

[E.M. Schultz]

Yeah.

[Christine Schiefer]

Unless they're together. I was gonna say. I mean, I hope they. I hope that means, like, they have a better chance of maybe finding their way of that.

[E.M. Schultz]

Yeah.

[Christine Schiefer]

Loop or what have you.

[Racha Pecorero]

Yeah, I know. And it sounds like. I mean, with all the laughing.

[Christine Schiefer]

Right.

[Racha Pecorero]

And screaming that was going on, I'm like, well, maybe now they're just having fun with it because they know they're not going anywhere else.

[Christine Schiefer]

Pranking people now. Right. Maybe they're like, we'll do the old tandem bike routine, you know? And, like, come on, babe, let's go. One can only hope, man.

[Yvette Gentile]

I mean.

[Christine Schiefer]

Yeah.

[Racha Pecorero]

Make it a little lighter.

[Christine Schiefer]

Yeah, you try.

[Yvette Gentile]

We try, right?

[Christine Schiefer]

We try so hard.

[E.M. Schultz]

So I grew up in Virginia, and we had a haunted bridge that. It was called the Bunnyman Bridge. And the Bunnyman Is our cryptid.

[Christine Schiefer]

If we.

[Racha Pecorero]

Oh, you have a cryptid in Virginia. How did we not know that he's under the radar?

[E.M. Schultz]

Actually, I covered. I think I did a two parter on him on our show if you need it.

[Racha Pecorero]

Okay, then I will go back and listen to it.

[E.M. Schultz]

It's in depth on the Bunnyman.

[Christine Schiefer]

Hey, if you need a rabbit hole, get it.

[E.M. Schultz]

Stop it.

[Yvette Gentile]

Yvette loves R.A. not a boom.

[E.M. Schultz]

Well, so the county over for me is. It's Fairfax county and that's where the Bunnyman Bridge is. And the story that I always grew up with was that in the 70s there was this man who was being transferred from one mental health hospital to another. At the time they did not say mental health hospital. They were much more nasty. Yes, he was like some horrible man and you know, whatever. Anyway, during the transfer between the facilities, the bus crashed and so the door accidentally got open and all of the patients that were being transferred to a different facility escaped. And only one of them was never captured. I don't know, brought. I don't know, brought back.

[Racha Pecorero]

Right, right, right.

[E.M. Schultz]

So anyway, he went missing and the story was always that he just lived in the woods underneath the bridge and he survived all the wildlife in the area to be able to eat. And during the winter he was known. I guess that area was high in rabbits. And so the thought is that he would eat the bunnies and then he would use their fur to stay warm. And so eventually he had killed so many rabbits for survival and stitched them all together to make a fur suit which essentially was a bunny suit. And a lot of people claim that a human sized bunny was walking around in the woods under the bridge. Growing up in the area, the big dare amongst teenagers. First of all, it was, oh, have you driven under the Bunnyman Bridge? But really it was, have you driven under it at exactly midnight on Halloween?

[Racha Pecorero]

Oh, stop.

[E.M. Schultz]

Because if that happened, I never did. But the lore is that if you drove under the bridge at exactly midnight, if you looked out the rear view window, you would see the bunny man standing there and shadows of bunnies hanging over the overpass.

[Yvette Gentile]

What?

[Racha Pecorero]

Oh, dead bunny.

[Christine Schiefer]

Did you ever have anyone em who claimed to have seen that in your like.

[E.M. Schultz]

Yeah, but it was always some they're like guy at the party.

[Christine Schiefer]

Right, okay, so it's not like a.

[Racha Pecorero]

Trusted source trying to show off.

[E.M. Schultz]

I had one friend who said that he partied with the Bunnyman and I'm like, okay, I don't believe that.

[Racha Pecorero]

Okay.

[Christine Schiefer]

I mean maybe he did in. Yeah, maybe.

[Racha Pecorero]

I don't Know, maybe in his head.

[E.M. Schultz]

So. No, I have been to the bridge. It is a shockingly. You already think it's probably, you know, not all that interesting of a bridge. It's actually an even less interesting bridge.

[Christine Schiefer]

So it's more boring than the average bridge. I had to drive an hour to.

[E.M. Schultz]

See this bridge, and I was like, this is it.

[Christine Schiefer]

Yeah.

[Racha Pecorero]

Nothing creepy about it.

[E.M. Schultz]

Not even a little bit.

[Racha Pecorero]

Not even a little bit.

[E.M. Schultz]

And at the end of the bridge is a dead end. So then you have to awkwardly, like, back up, back up and turn around.

[Christine Schiefer]

Okay. But to be fair, that does make it a little creepy because it's like, at midnight, if you're like, if one of your friends, like, what's that over there? And then you have to, like, try and back up out of it. Like, that has its own.

[E.M. Schultz]

But that's how I. That's how I know the Bunnyman isn't real. Because wouldn't the story be once you drive through it? He's waiting for you at the dead end. And then you can't.

[Racha Pecorero]

Not just looking at you.

[Christine Schiefer]

I think what he is, He's. You get to the dead end. Let's rewrite this. You get to the dead end. Workshopping it. And then you're like, okay, nothing here. And you go to reverse, and he's standing behind. Let's workshop this.

[Racha Pecorero]

I'm obsessed with both of you.

[E.M. Schultz]

Revisionist history.

[Christine Schiefer]

Yeah. You know what? It's already probably a fake story. We can. We can judge it up.

[E.M. Schultz]

Yeah, you can do what you want.

[Yvette Gentile]

We like to judge.

[Christine Schiefer]

Yeah. Oh, my goodness. I mean, I'll go there with you at midnight if you want.

[E.M. Schultz]

I would go at midnight just to say that I did it. But I will tell you, it's. No. When I was 16, I was actually too scared to go. And now that I've.

[Racha Pecorero]

Well, because you knew ghosts really existed.

[Christine Schiefer]

Right?

[E.M. Schultz]

That's true.

[Yvette Gentile]

Because you knew the super ghost hunter.

[Racha Pecorero]

True.

[E.M. Schultz]

You're right. That's.

[Christine Schiefer]

By this point, if he was in.

[Racha Pecorero]

The 70s, he might still actually be alive, so.

[Yvette Gentile]

Right.

[Racha Pecorero]

That's.

[E.M. Schultz]

Yeah, I guess he was always assumed to be the ghost of the Bunnyman, but really, it sounds more like a true crime story. I just told him, now that I'm thinking about it, you know, urban legends.

[Christine Schiefer]

I think it's a.

[Yvette Gentile]

It's a little bit of both combined.

[Christine Schiefer]

Yeah, exactly. Some of the best stories are. Wow.

[Racha Pecorero]

Oh, my goodness.

[Yvette Gentile]

Well, maybe there is something about certain locations that keeps these souls trapped in one place, like we've been talking about, unable to escape, no matter how hard they actually try.

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[Yvette Gentile]

Alrighty, we are back with M. Schultz and Christine Schieffer from and that's why We Drink. I don't. I love saying that so much.

[Racha Pecorero]

She's obsessed. I know.

[Christine Schiefer]

It's catchy, huh?

[Racha Pecorero]

It is catchy.

[Yvette Gentile]

It really is. Well done. Okay, we have been covering stories about phantom vehicles, passengers, and hitchhikers from all around the world. But maybe it's not the passengers or the drivers we should be focusing on. Maybe there's something about certain locations that keep souls trapped in one place, doomed to repeat their journeys time and. And time again. Right. And we can't explore this theory without talking about one of the creepiest roads in America, Clinton Road in West Milford, New Jersey. Have you guys heard of this place? I haven't.

[Christine Schiefer]

Well, but I don't know much about it. I've heard of it, but em probably knows much more than I do.

[E.M. Schultz]

Well, actually, I am going to New Jersey soon, so I know I might just add this on my list of places to visit. I've never been before to this area, so I'll tack it on. But the only thing I've heard about is just like some of the weird encounters that people have experienced. I know there's like a truck that follows people too closely and like flashes their lights and then. And then the lights kind of the truck vanishes. Even though it's never turned away. It's never right turned left or right. There's a wolf with red eyes. There's park rangers that will help you out when you're lost. And then you realize that they were wearing uniforms from, like, the 30s.

[Racha Pecorero]

Oh, my goodness.

[E.M. Schultz]

And then there's a haunted Cadillac Camaro. Starts with a hard C. But there's. There's a car that I guess someone crashed in the 70s and died. And that car is still seen driving up and down the road.

[Yvette Gentile]

Oh, that's a lot. That's a whole lot.

[Racha Pecorero]

We have even more to add.

[Christine Schiefer]

I was going to say, I think they're about to tell us more.

[Racha Pecorero]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We have even more. I'm like, everything you told us, like, like, I guess we could be talking. We should have done just a whole episode on the legend of hitting road.

[Christine Schiefer]

We totally could.

[Racha Pecorero]

Oh, wow. Okay. So for those of you who don't know, this winding 10 mile stretch of road has been labeled one of the most haunted roads in the entire United States. And along with all those stories that em has shared with us, some say that even the indigenous Americans and early settlers believe, believed the land itself was cursed. Though we haven't been able to find any actual evidence of that or exactly why they thought that. But in 1905, an author and historian named Joseph Crane had a theory. He claimed the woods near the road were infested with witches.

[Christine Schiefer]

Infested?

[E.M. Schultz]

I said, mom, wait a minute.

[Racha Pecorero]

I know.

[Yvette Gentile]

We knew it.

[Christine Schiefer]

Infestation is strong, but okay, so Joseph.

[Racha Pecorero]

Said the witches gathered nightly to hold ritual dances where they morphed into these terrifying forms. He didn't say specifically what those forms were, only that they scared the daylights out of any people or animals who encountered them because they were so beautiful. Of course they were scared by their beauty.

[Christine Schiefer]

Yeah.

[Racha Pecorero]

So over the years, urban legends arose about different spots along Clinton Road. Like what you've been sharing Em. And one of the most famous is a bridge that crosses a tight corner called Dead man's Curve. So there are a few versions of how this particular bridge became haunted. One is that a young boy drowned in the creek below. Another is that this boy's friends challenged him to stand on the bridge as some kind of prank and ended up leaving him there for hours. And when they came back, they saw that he was dead.

[Christine Schiefer]

Whoa.

[Racha Pecorero]

People also say to this day, if you toss a coin into the water, he'll toss it back.

[Christine Schiefer]

Oh, yeah. Now that's cool. Oh, yeah, right.

[Yvette Gentile]

Hell no.

[E.M. Schultz]

That is. I would absolutely try to do that when I'm.

[Christine Schiefer]

That's one that I'll do.

[Racha Pecorero]

Yeah, I would, too. And one witness said that she tossed a quarter in and exactly a minute later heard a Second splash. As if someone had dropped. Dropped another coin. And she was there by herself. And when she looked into the creek, she saw the reflection of a boy.

[E.M. Schultz]

No.

[Racha Pecorero]

Staring back at her in the water.

[E.M. Schultz]

Bye again. See ya. I'm 13. I would do it. And then the second that I see him, I go, why did I do this? Right.

[Christine Schiefer]

I'm gonna regret this. Yeah. Yes.

[Yvette Gentile]

Yeah. Yeah. And this is. So you kind of tapped into this earlier. M. The bridge isn't the only haunted spot. People have claimed that the whole 10 mile stretch of Clinton Road is full of weird supernatural energy. And plenty of eyewitnesses say they were driving there at night and noticed the headlights from a black pickup truck trailing close behind.

[E.M. Schultz]

Look at me go.

[Yvette Gentile]

Yeah. And then all of a sudden, the lights just disappeared, even though there was no intersection or pull off in sight. And there are also tales of the weather suddenly changing, like snow falling in the middle of summer, but only on the road itself.

[E.M. Schultz]

Get out. That's wild.

[Yvette Gentile]

Like, that would freak me out.

[E.M. Schultz]

Yeah.

[Yvette Gentile]

That would be cool though, to be in that.

[E.M. Schultz]

It'd be super cool. And no one would ever believe me even if I had. It'd be like, that's AI. Yeah.

[Racha Pecorero]

That's when you do live.

[Christine Schiefer]

Yeah, right, exactly.

[Yvette Gentile]

That is when you capture it.

[E.M. Schultz]

Right.

[Yvette Gentile]

Okay. So there's also whispers about UFOs, satanic rituals and the secret KKK meetings.

[Racha Pecorero]

Oh.

[Yvette Gentile]

At a burnt out castle near the road, which I would definitely steer clear of.

[Christine Schiefer]

Okay.

[E.M. Schultz]

I thought you were gonna say, I'm definitely checking that out.

[Yvette Gentile]

And I was like, yeah, what the heck.

[E.M. Schultz]

Thank you.

[Yvette Gentile]

Okay. The three story stone building was built in 1907 by a guy named Richard Cross and was used as his country estate. It featured 365 acres of farmland, woods and a pond. However, cross died in 1917 and the castle was sold to the city of Newark. Two years later, the uninhabited property began to deteriorate and was stripped bare of anything that could be sold. And eventually, of course, it became a hangout for kids looking just to party in secret.

[Christine Schiefer]

I mean, an old castle. Yeah, that's.

[Racha Pecorero]

Yeah, right.

[E.M. Schultz]

I would.

[Racha Pecorero]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Yvette Gentile]

And then in 1988, the City of Newark demolished what was left because it was considered a safety hazard. And not long after that, one group of friends decided to investigate the castle ruins for fun. They lit a bonfire and cracked open a few beers, as you would. And half an hour later, they heard ominous chanting coming from somewhere nearby and the rattle of chains.

[Christine Schiefer]

A what?

[Yvette Gentile]

It was then that one of them suddenly had a seizure. Allegedly, she became so incredibly heavy that none of her friends could actually lift her or even move her.

[Christine Schiefer]

Oh.

[Yvette Gentile]

As soon as the chanting stopped, that is when she supposedly regained consciousness.

[E.M. Schultz]

Oh, my gosh. Yeah.

[Christine Schiefer]

Chanting feels not good to me.

[E.M. Schultz]

Even if nothing paranormal was happening. Talk about the worst time ever to have a seizure.

[Christine Schiefer]

Yeah. No.

[E.M. Schultz]

I feel so bad for that person. Yeah.

[Racha Pecorero]

Well, let's jump into another story. This time it's on a road in southern Scotland called the A75 that passes through a town called Dumfries. The area is said to be the most haunted highway in the entire country of Scotland. Apparently, there are a lot of paranormal sightings associated with this particular four mile stretch of road. But there's one story I have to share with you. It's about a pair of truck driving brothers named Derek and Norman Ferguson. Back in 1962, they were driving late at night when a chicken flew straight at their windshield, only to disappear a split second before any impact happened.

[E.M. Schultz]

Been doing this a long time. That's first.

[Christine Schiefer]

That's a first.

[Racha Pecorero]

And as if that wasn't terrifying enough, like they thought they were going to kill this chicken. As they kept driving, they encountered more spectral creatures in the road. We're talking huge wild cats, dogs, and goats.

[E.M. Schultz]

What? Yeah.

[Racha Pecorero]

And each time their truck got close to one of the animals, it completely vanished.

[E.M. Schultz]

Oh, my gosh. The adrenaline spikes every time. You think you're gonna hit a dog.

[Yvette Gentile]

I know, I know.

[Racha Pecorero]

You're like, what is happening right now? After a few of these near misses, the brothers pulled over to simply catch their breath. And that's when their entire vehicle got incredibly cold inside, as if they had just walked into a freezer. Then the truck itself shook wildly, like something outside was trying to tip them over.

[E.M. Schultz]

No.

[Racha Pecorero]

One of them got up the courage to leave the truck to see what it was, but as soon as he stepped out, the shaking stop stopped. So of course, they cranked that engine back up and sped off.

[Christine Schiefer]

But wait, there's more. Wait for it.

[Racha Pecorero]

A little further down the road, they spotted an elderly couple with long white hair. And as they passed them, these old people chased after the truck, but then disappeared just like the animals did.

[Christine Schiefer]

What?

[E.M. Schultz]

What is going on?

[Racha Pecorero]

Others in the area have reported the seeing that exact same couple. One woman was driving down that same stretch of road when an elderly man left in front of her car. She slammed on the brakes, but she knew she couldn't slow down in time, except just before impact, the old man disappeared. A man named Bob Sturgeon owned a roadside snack van off the A75. For years and years. And he had heard plenty of stories about unusual encounters almost weekly.

[E.M. Schultz]

Oh, my God.

[Yvette Gentile]

Yeah.

[Racha Pecorero]

He said these tales mostly came from long distance truck drivers who had nothing to gain by telling him these stories. Right?

[Christine Schiefer]

Yeah. Fair enough.

[Racha Pecorero]

And some of them were so traumatized by what they saw. And one of his regular customers was so traumatized and so shaken up after a particular encounter, that particular man gave up truck driving. Oh, we're good.

[Yvette Gentile]

See you.

[Christine Schiefer]

So he left his whole career path. He's like, Actually he's like, that's enough for me. Yeah.

[E.M. Schultz]

Oh my gosh.

[Christine Schiefer]

Geez.

[Yvette Gentile]

I mean, that would freak me out. Roger, do you remember we were taking a drive to LA one time and all of a sudden all of these bugs, like, I swear to God, hundreds of thousands of bugs just like boom, boom, boom, boom, hitting the windshield and we were just freaking the.

[Racha Pecorero]

Yeah. It was not okay.

[Christine Schiefer]

And they didn't disappear, I imagine upon impact. They just hit your.

[Yvette Gentile]

No, they just kept. No, they just kept coming and it was like blacking out our windshield.

[Racha Pecorero]

It was really good.

[Yvette Gentile]

It was freaking.

[Racha Pecorero]

So here's my humble opinion. My humble opinion is that the couple, all the animals, I think that something happened to them there and that was their last resting place and they're just making themselves known.

[E.M. Schultz]

That's nicer than them being just like murderous animals.

[Racha Pecorero]

I don't want to believe in murderous animals. I mean, I just got a brand new kitten and I think he might be. Because I'm not a cat person, but that's a whole other story.

[Christine Schiefer]

Yeah, I mean, I can probably confirm that for you as a cat owner, but I mean, a little demon in a best way, like in a cat way, because they're all like a little bit demonic, but like we love them for that, you know?

[Yvette Gentile]

Okay, exactly. That's what I'm a part.

[Racha Pecorero]

Do you love him?

[Christine Schiefer]

Yeah. Yeah. You will.

[Yvette Gentile]

Okay. Well, what is interesting about all of these stories is it's not just one person who saw something. Many claim to have. Have seen the same or similar events repeated. Like if we go back to the Suri ghost car with multiple callers reporting the crash, or the case of the hitchhiking daughter who had been killed and lured several drivers back to her parents home after she died. Or the train over the Boston Bridge, you almost get a sense of history repeating itself. Like, I. I say this all the time. Is there a time loop that is repetitively on play at that exact certain time and moment?

[Racha Pecorero]

Right.

[Yvette Gentile]

Okay. Which is why I want to bring up an ancient theory that was made Popular again by the philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche. And he spoke about a concept called eternal recurrence. Basically the idea is that time repeats in an infinite loop with exactly the same events occurring over and over again for eternity. Nietzsche used this concept as a thought experiment, a way to challenge people to live life in a way that they, you know, wouldn't regret. And it was supposed to make you think about how you'd make different choices if you knew you'd have to live them again and again and again. But maybe, just maybe, he was on to something bigger. What if the universe does repeat itself and all of these apparitions aren't actually the dead coming back to haunt us, but echoes of the world that came before? What do y' all think about that?

[E.M. Schultz]

I. I think a lot of times that our ghosts are our future selves looking out for us.

[Racha Pecorero]

Oh, I like that.

[E.M. Schultz]

And so that's why when you get a gut feeling, it's because it's yourself being like, get out of here. Like, I know what's coming.

[Christine Schiefer]

Like your higher self, like kind of.

[E.M. Schultz]

Being like, yeah, I'm also, I'm a big time travel nerd. And so in my mind I'm like, however I can make that possible is how instead of it being. If it's, if it's on loop, that would mean that the events are in the past, but also in the future. Which means.

[Christine Schiefer]

Fair enough, yes.

[E.M. Schultz]

So in my mind, I can get with Nietzsche on this for sure.

[Christine Schiefer]

Yeah. Well, also, if you think about, I mean, just not to say quantum physics again, geez, we just gotta start drinking gamers.

[Racha Pecorero]

Oh my gosh.

[Yvette Gentile]

Physics is above.

[Racha Pecorero]

Physics is above all.

[Christine Schiefer]

Our bakery, let's be clear. But like the concept that, you know, time being not as tangible as we think or not, you know, what did Einstein said, reality is an illusion, but a persistent one. Like the idea that times are all happening at once, but for our human brains to comprehend, we have to understand like past, present, future, like in a narrative sense. And sometimes we get glimpses into, you know, times that are almost like a glitch, I guess, but like crossovers of these timelines. So I don't know. I mean, I think there's clearly something to all of that in the fact that I don't know so many people and now em signing on with Nietzsche and maybe there's something to do it.

[Racha Pecorero]

Well, I'm not sure we'll ever be able to actually prove whether eternal recurrence is real or if spectral phenomena is a blip in the space time continuum, but I think there's some mysteries to life that we aren't meant to solve. And that's okay because it's these things that give us hope. It's these mysteries that keep us going, these unsolvable puzzles that get us to asteroids, Bigger philosophical questions about the meaning of life. And because of that, I'm happy to keep guessing, to keep on doing the deep diving, and to keep learning. Because what kind of world are we living in if there are no more questions left for us to answer? The supernatural, I think that is what keeps all of us going. Right?

[Yvette Gentile]

And that's why we drink.

[Christine Schiefer]

Freaking loosely. That is why we drink. Amen. I mean, mic drop.

[Yvette Gentile]

Yeah.

[Christine Schiefer]

What Raja said. Agreed. That was so much more poignant than I could have put it. But, yes, I agree with you. The questions. I'm always like, I want an answer now. But I think deep down, I know that that's part of the fun. Yeah, right, right.

[Yvette Gentile]

And time is so precious, and it reveals itself always at the right place and moment.

[Christine Schiefer]

You're right.

[Yvette Gentile]

We just have to be patient. Oh, my gosh. I don't want this to end, you guys. I just want to thank you so much, Em, Christine, for joining us here on so Supernatural. You guys are just so much fun. Pure joy. I mean, it's been so great to get your take on all of this stuff and especially, of course, for spooky season and Halloween.

[Christine Schiefer]

Thank you so much for having us. This has been an honor. We don't really often have the time to just like, just kind of do a roundtable discussion of, like, what on earth is going on with these ghosts, you know? So this was very, very enlightening. And you two are so much fun. So it's an honor. Thank you for having us.

[E.M. Schultz]

Thank you so much.

[Christine Schiefer]

Thank you for having us, really.

[Yvette Gentile]

Mahalo nui loa to both of you. You are just a breath of fresh air, truly.

[E.M. Schultz]

Wow.

[Christine Schiefer]

Thank you.

[Racha Pecorero]

I love it.

[Yvette Gentile]

And if you want to hear more from them, check out their show. And that's why we drink on YouTube and wherever else you get your podcasts. We'll see you back here next week for another episode. This is so Supernatural. An audio check. Original produced by Crime House. You can connect with us on Instagram at so supernatural pod and visit our website at sosupernaturalpodcast.com join rasha and me next Friday for an all new episode. I think Chuck would approve.

[Racha Pecorero]

Aloha. So Supernatural listeners, if you love diving into the strange and unexplained with us, we have another podcast that we think you'll enjoy Dark Down East.

[Yvette Gentile]

That's right. Every week, host Kylie Lowe takes us deep into New England's darkest mysteries. But these are real cases, from unsolved crimes to long buried secrets. Set in the beautiful, historical and sometimes eerie New England, Kylie's storytelling is so.

[Racha Pecorero]

Heartfelt and meticulous, you'll feel like you're uncovering the truth right alongside her as she dives deep into the lies, lives behind the cases and the impact they've had on their communities.

[Yvette Gentile]

Check out Dark down east now. Wherever you listen to podcasts.