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So Supernatural
LEGENDS OF HAWAII: Night Marchers (with Lopaka Kapanui)
00:40:54
The legendary Night Marchers of Hawaii still roam under the moonlight—and crossing their path could cost you everything. Yvette and Rasha return home to Honolulu with master storyteller Lopaka Kapanui to uncover the true history, hauntings, and powerful mana behind Hawaii’s most feared spirits.
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- [00:01]
A
Hi, I'm Kylie Lowe, host of Dark Down East, a true crime podcast unlike any other.
- [00:07]
B
Why?
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A
Because every case I cover comes from the heart of my home, New England. From the rocky Maine coast to the historic streets of Boston to the quiet corners of Vermont and beyond, I investigate stories filled with untold twists, enduring questions, and voices that deserve to be heard. So if you're ready to explore the darker side of New England, join me every week for Dark Down East. Listen now, wherever you get your podcasts.
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C
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Kick of buffalo any longer.
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A
Welcome back to Sew Supernatural. I am Rasha Marie Kahumalama O Kanani.
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C
Honua Pecorera and I am her big sister, Yvette Patrice Kanani Gentile. The next two episodes are near and dear to our hearts because we finally are taking you home with us to our Hawaii nei.
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A
But we are not doing it alone. Today we are joined by Native Hawaiian Kanaka Maoli master storyteller Lopaka Kapanui. Best known as Hawaii's Ghost Guy, Lopaka learned about his family's history, customs and protocol, which were passed down to him in the traditional Hawaiian way through moolelo from mouth to ear. As a master storyteller, Lopaka has received a special citation from from the Hawaii State Legislature in the year 2020 for perpetuating and celebrating local culture, history, language and folklore through storytelling and knowledge of the Hawaiian island's history and legends.
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C
There are so many incredible legends that come from Hawaii, but to tell these stories properly, we couldn't just record from our Home Studios. We knew that we had to go back home to Honolulu to be surrounded by the land, the ain, the ocean, and the mana of our ancestors. Being there made these stories feel alive in a way that can't be captured anywhere else. We had the gift of attending Lopaka's Mysteries of Hawaii Night Marchers Ghost Tour. Some of the audio in this episode was recorded on location near the Kamehameha statue and Iolani palace at night, outside side. So it's a bit grainy at times, but with that being said, we feel like you need to witness it for yourself. So without further ado, we are beyond honored to share this story with you and have Lopaka Kapanui tell us the true legends of the night marchers. I should say, for me, growing up, you know, when I heard about the night marchers, it was normally after we had gone to a dance, like at St. Louis or somewhere, and we all lived in Pearl City, so we'd be driving back to Pearl City, we'd end up at a graveyard somewhere and. And, you know, of course there would be some pakalolo, probably some alcohol, even though I didn't do very much, but I was always kind of didn't do very much.
- [04:41]
A
You did any?
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C
Oh, I did. Like, I probably tried it anyhow.
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B
That's a whole.
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C
That's a whole nother story. I never got into it after that, but just saying. But they would, you know, someone always start by telling these stories, and of course, we'd start to get freaked out, you know, of hearing about the night marchers. So can you tell us the legends of the night marchers and how it all began? The true legend of how it all began.
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D
So the night marchers are actually referred to in the kumulipo, and the kumulipo chant is the chant of how everything began in the Hawaiian universe, from darkness to the muck to, you know, things coming on land. So they're already in there. In ancient times, there are many, many processions, not only warriors, but for ceremonial things. For instance, like a procession going up to the forest to fell a tree, to carve it out to be a canoe. There's a whole thing that happens with that. They're bringing a person with them who's going to be offered for sacrifice before they chop the tree down. If they happen upon somebody who broke the kapu, they take that guy, too, and there's all the prayers. Make sure it's the right tree, you know, chop the tree down. And the way that the koi trees are grown is they keep pruning the branches, so by the time they chop it down, you can basically carve out what you need of the canoe and then bring it down to the shore and then carve out the rest. And so there's blood sacrifices for that. So there's those processions that people see. There's also menehune processions. There's processions for Pele, Hiaka, Laka, and there's also a female procession that comes through the upper part of Kaimuki, where we live.
- [06:24]
A
Oh, wow.
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D
And so this book happened because my wife was getting upset about all this misinformation about Kaimarchers.
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A
There's a lot out there.
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D
And she was so upset, she sat on her desk and she's like, give me that book. Give me that book. And she's putting it together. So I'm just providing all the material. And we come across this thing about this female procession and, you know, fire station in Kaimuki.
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C
Yes.
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D
So across is this. This hill with all these houses. So that was the compound of the Oahu chief, Kakuihawa. And so this female procession comes from there, and it marches on the. The night of the hua. Moon phase. So hua is like a fruit. So the moon is shaped like. Like a hua. A fruit. The trouble that with that female procession is, you know, I hardly say this, but I'm very well connected. And so every piece of information, every source I look for to explain who this female procession was, couldn't find anything, and I was starting to get upset. And while I'm looking for this online, behind me is my wife on her computer, and she's listening to the Roe vs. Wade thing. And in between, you know, looking for my next source, I sort of heard that. And this voice, literally this voice in my head said, you're a man. This is a female procession. It's not for you. Yeah. So I thought to myself, okay, so, okay, this is for a woman to know. And the second I say this in my head, my wife goes, I got it.
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B
Of course.
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A
Get it, Auntie Tanya.
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D
That's basically the purpose of this whole thing, you know, to straighten out all the misinformation that's out there. There's a lot.
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A
Yeah. The book that Lopaka is talking about is Hawaii's Night Marchers, A History of the Hua Kaipo.
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D
Yeah.
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A
And both Yvette and I have read it. But I was reading it. I mean, I've had it for quite a while because I've been a fan of you forever. And we have so many People in common. But when I was reading it on the plane on the way I was, I came here to Honolulu this last trip going through Maui, and it just. Every part of my body had chicken skin all over it reading about it. But I know that Yvette had a similar experience.
- [08:52]
C
Yeah, I mean, I was, you know, out on the North Shore in Covela Bay reading it at night, and I was just. And I wasn't scared. That's the thing. I wasn't scared. I felt like I was finally understanding truly what the night marchers were all about, you know, and learned about and are about, you know, and that, that ancient history. And I think everybody should learn it and know the history behind it. But what I really loved. I am going to read a passage and this is about what you wrote about Oahu and you said, someone asked me once, what is the most haunted island in Hawaii? And I had to say, hands down, it must be Oahu. And I still agree with this statement today. There are powerful, spiritual and absolutely haunted places on every major island in our chain. Of course, however, due to the sheer number of people here and such widespread activity, there just seems to be many more instances of hauntings on this particular island where Rasha and I were raised. So do share.
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D
So many people. Population has increased over the centuries and with so many people becomes a lot of people's personal issues. And there's a lot. And people occupy spaces that end up being haunted for whatever reason. So because of the vast population, we don't just have people, but we also have spirits that are more active, more than we think. And so even in downtown Honolulu, if you're down downtown for some business in broad daylight, if you can discern correctly, you'll see spirits walking among the living.
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C
Let's have you take a listen to Lopaka telling his moolelo, his stories about the night marchers. In the evening, we took his tour.
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B
So one of the primary night marcher moons is a moon phase called Muku. Muku is from midnight to midnight. When the procession arrives through here, it's 4 o' clock in the morning. So even though I said Alakia, Bishop and Nuuanu are three paths where night marches go on those three streets, it's actually this entire section of downtown Honolulu. So if you're anywhere in that area at 4 o' clock in the morning and they're coming and it's too late, you're practically late right here. If you. You're struck with such fear that you don't want to die, you have resolve and gumption that you want to live if you possess the actual athleticism to run. If you can make it from any one of those three streets and you go in there, you're scot free. Night marchers cannot process through any places where there are known burials unless the path was there first, unless those evil belong to them. But in there, you're safe. But you have to stay there until the sun comes up. I want you to Google photographs of those Calvinist missionaries who first came here to do what they did. They don't look like happy people, because they're not. But when they first came, they could only teach reading and writing. When they're finally allowed to teach religion. By that time, they already knew about our sacred places, particularly our heiau and our nightmare's paths. That's where they built their churches to nullify the beliefs of native Hawaiians. But churches in places like Makauao, Pukalani, Haleiwa, places on the Big island built on a night marcher path. Once a month, wrecked headstones turned over because the path is still the path. It doesn't matter what you put in its way. They're still going to march. So if you decide to come back here at 4 o' clock in the morning and you can determine what moon phase that is on our Hawaiian lunar calendar, they'll call me.
- [12:53]
C
You said something so powerful. I mean, so many things you said last night were powerful, but you said it's like these spirits are on a loop and you're just. And you know, you're just walking right in their path sometimes. Right? Explain that to us.
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D
So this is what we call a residual energy. Like I was saying last night, it's like recording that just repeats itself, same time, same place. Kind of like how Hamlet's father, his ghost appears during those hours to, you know, finally relay the message. So that's residual. What we need to be concerned about is something that's cognitive, like night marchers, which means they know they're dead. They also realize there's this point they can't move beyond. So because of those two things, they can also physically interact with the living. So not poltergeists, but cognitive spirits.
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A
Cognitive spirits, yeah.
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D
And those are also the kind of spirits you have to be very careful with because of their. Their capacity to interact physically.
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C
Right?
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D
Yeah. Like sitting on your leg.
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A
Wait, was a night marcher with me, or was it just a cognitive spirit last night?
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D
But what leg was it?
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A
It was my left.
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D
Yeah, it's a woman.
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A
Oh, could have been your mother.
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C
Could have been Mom.
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D
Yeah. Yeah.
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A
Oh, my goodness.
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D
It didn't feel harmful.
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A
Did Was weird. It didn't feel harmful. It just. It physically hurt. Like, it physically. Like, it felt like I was being held.
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D
Was your mom a big woman?
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A
She wasn't. But she was curvy.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Yeah, she was.
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D
Big bone.
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A
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah. I didn't even think that it could be long.
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C
Well, because you. You said it wasn't scary.
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A
No, it wasn't scary, but it was just like, oh, that hurts. So it made me, like, get up to go to the lua. To go to the restroom in the middle of the night, and I could, like, I was tiptoeing, like, and I couldn't get rid of. It was with me. And somehow I fell back asleep, even though I was like, this is a sitting ghost. Like, something is holding on to me because it started like, oh, I have a leg cramp or something, but it didn't go away. And I can't walk on a leg cramp.
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D
Well, if it was actually a sitting ghost, it would have been sitting on your chest.
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A
On the chest, yeah. So this is not on the legs. So this was something else.
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D
Probably your mom.
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A
Yeah.
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C
And I was telling her, when she told me this, I was like, that's interesting, because last night when we were all in the circle, I felt a heaviness in my legs right before we started walking, and I was like, oh, oh. And as we started going, I felt it just kind of ease off.
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D
Yeah.
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A
I felt protected by you.
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C
Yeah, felt protected.
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A
And obviously we have audio from that recording, and it's so amazing. But I would love to know if you yourself have ever experienced a visit from the Night Marchers.
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D
So this was when I was just taking over the bus tour from Glen Grant and he was moving on to other things, which is why he had me come in and take over the tours. We had 38 architects that we had to pick up from this architectural firm on Hotel street. And it took 15 minutes to get them on the bus because they're scared out of their minds. And I said, we can't do the tour unless we get on the bus.
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C
Step one.
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D
Yes. So they finally get off the bus, and our first stop is the Manoa Chinese Cemetery. And so they thought we were going to stay on the bus, and I was going to tell them the story, said, no, you have to get off the bus, walk through the cemetery.
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A
Remind me, where is the cemetery?
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D
So it's right here.
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A
The one in Manoa.
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D
Yeah.
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A
Oh, I pointed that right before we were driving up, I lived a few blocks from there on Puhala Rise.
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D
Oh, okay, I know where that is. Oh, it's haunted. We go up to the top of the cemetery where the tree line is, like on. On the right side. That's where all the kids are buried right together because a lot of them died from smallpox in the plague. And the second we got up there and I turn on to face the group, this wind is tearing through the cemetery. Like, you know, the palms are like bending like this and I can see it. You know, the people are going like this. And the problem is I can see the wind to it, but I can't hear it and I can't feel it. Very hot. The people are looking at me like this now, going, you're right. And they turn around and they hightail it back to the bus. So the next day I called my cousin, Keone Nunes, and I told him what happened. He said, oh, when was this? I said, last night, because where is it? Mono Chinese cemetery. He said, oh, last night was Po Khani. It was the first of the night marcher moons. He said, there's a procession that comes through the cemetery, like where you were standing. So I said, so how come I. How come I didn't die? Because it just.
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A
Right, yeah.
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D
So he said, that feeling of seeing everything but not hearing it or feeling it and feeling encapsulated. You said you probably had ohana in that, protecting you. So they were protecting you.
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C
Circle around you.
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D
Yeah. And he said, what happened to the people? I said, they ran back to the bus. He said, oh, good.
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A
Oh, cuz you were protected, but you can't protect them. Wow.
- [18:22]
D
And I told him, I said, but I didn't do the mokua. He said, well, probably never need because, you know, they. They knew who you were.
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A
Oh, she didn't have to do the prayers.
- [18:31]
D
Yeah, yeah. So he said, and it's a good thing you had people who were, you know, scared because the first thing they did was run.
- [18:37]
A
Right?
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D
So he said, that was smart. And I think the second time was at Kalaua. So, you know, Yolks Yokohama at the end before Kayana Point.
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A
Okay.
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D
But we saw torch lights coming down the ridge where the satellite tracking station is. And we're just. Because Glenn used to do this Y and I ghost tour, right. So we saw it coming down the ridge and we're like, oh. So we just took off.
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A
Oh, my goodness.
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C
But what time were you there?
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D
By the time the bus got there, it was already like, I think 8 o'.
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C
Clock.
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D
So it's pitch dark out there. But it just also happened to be one of the night marcher nights.
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C
Wow.
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A
And there's four nights of lunar month.
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D
The common moon phases are Kane, lono, Maoli, muku. So kane is the night of the warrior and chiefly processions. And then lono is the procession that in life would circumnavigate the island, gathering tax and tribute. Maoli is the night of spirits. And the night of Muku, the night of no moon, is when only the gods roam the earth. So back in the day, people had to be indoors from midnight to midnight and your children and your animals couldn't make any sound. So if somebody made a sound, then you're k. Holly was found out and everybody was killed.
- [20:02]
C
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- [21:33]
A
You look amazing and I hate you for it, but I love you.
- [21:35]
C
It's amazing, y'.
- [21:37]
D
All.
- [21:37]
C
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- [22:11]
A
If you're wondering how you can protect yourself from the night marchers, if you're in their path. Here's Lapaka's advice to us from the Ghost tour.
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B
So today they say, if you know night marchers are coming to your house, you're building your school, whatever it is, plant tea leaf around the place. It will redirect the path of night marchers. But if you can't find those things, they also say, find a good architect or a carpenter who can misalign one of the doors at least half an inch off. If you do that, the night marchers can't pass. The other thing, you should do a sidewalk like this. If this were a house, I would line a sidewalk with ape leaves. So the API leaf is like a giant elephant ear leaf, like a kalo leaf. It's velvety on the surface. You plant it along the sidewalk like this. You're doing two things. You're determining to see if night marches march at your place, because as the leaves overlap, if there's spirits coming through the place, the leaves are perfect. Right. So when you see the spirits marching and the leaf does not rend, does not tear, that's how you know they're truly legitimate night marchers coming to your place, then you know what to do. The simplest thing to do is feng shui. Just align everything so it's out of their way, everyone's safe, no one's hurt.
- [23:32]
A
You know, it's so odd isn't even the right word, but I'm so proud that I'm from Hawaiine, and I've always found its beauty and its aloha, but I didn't realize how much violence has been on this aina, has been on this land. Like, I'm learning so much now.
- [23:55]
D
Yeah.
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A
And how. Like, when did that do we think? When did that stop?
- [24:01]
D
When Kamehameha stopped making war. Some Hawaiian activists say that's also when we began to become colonized.
- [24:10]
A
Right, right.
- [24:12]
D
That's a whole other podcast.
- [24:13]
C
This is so true. This is true.
- [24:16]
A
This is so true. Yeah.
- [24:18]
D
Yeah. So you read all these. These Hawaiian legends. There's a lot of violence in it.
- [24:22]
A
Yeah.
- [24:22]
D
You know, a lot of them don't have happy endings.
- [24:25]
A
Yeah.
- [24:26]
D
So because we have a lot of material that my wife looks through social. Read a hole, and then she's like, oh, my God, like, everybody died.
- [24:32]
A
Yeah.
- [24:34]
D
Yeah.
- [24:35]
C
I mean, and if you go back through history, Right. And you think about the Romans or the Africans, like it. In all of these cultures, there always has been a lot of violence, you know, in the very beginning. Right.
- [24:48]
D
But then, you know, there's also a history of, you know, societies that are great people, get along. The life of the land is, like, verdant and producing and some other culture comes along and just.
- [25:00]
A
And that's why we have to preserve the Hawaiian culture.
- [25:04]
D
Absolutely.
- [25:05]
A
And perpetuate the aloha that has always been here. Even with all the violence, it always feels like everything was done in a pono way as much as possible. Yeah, yeah.
- [25:16]
D
I mean, you know, as a whole, we have to preserve humanity and, you know, start treating each other like. Like decent human beings.
- [25:25]
C
I'm going back in my head. I'm just thinking about all the things that I read in the book. And I have such an affinity for Kapiolani park because we used to live at the end of Diamond Head in the little gingerbread house there with my grandmother, my mom's biological family, when we first came here. And so that park was like my sanctuary. You know, I would go there, I would sit under the banyan trees there, and I would feel like they were talking to me. Like the trees were protecting me and talking to me. Can you tell us some of the history of Kapiolani park and if the night marchers, you know, go through there, which I'm sure in your book I've read. I know they did.
- [26:07]
D
Yeah, they absolutely do. The park used to be a horse race track. Oh, for King Kalakaua, he like going out there. But that area in Waikiki as a whole has such a history with the land. So Waikiki itself is a 2 1/2 mile stretch of land.
- [26:28]
A
It's only that big.
- [26:29]
D
Yeah. Wowkahi, the Oahu chief who lived in Wailua, sailing past Waikiki saw beautiful waters, verdant land, so that became the seat of power. And so during his time, only the highest ranking chiefs could live there. So if you landed your canoe and you're not a certain rank, like, couldn't be there, kill you on the beach. So the other reason Waikiki was chosen is because two and a half miles of sand. So sand preserves bones. So they build hail. They have battles, they build the hail. Where La Pietra now is?
- [27:09]
A
Oh, the School for Girls.
- [27:10]
D
School for girls built it right on top of the heia.
- [27:12]
A
Oh, what?
- [27:14]
D
Yeah. And so when Kamehameha comes, you know, for, you know, his Battle of Nuuanu.
- [27:20]
A
Oh, yeah.
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D
And he brings everybody. The people living in Waikiki now have to doubly produce more food, more fish. So it's already exhausting their resources for a Kamehameha's army. And so by the time that's over. The people in Waikiki have, you know, practically nothing. And so when Kamehameha had to travel, he had to take everybody with him so nobody could be left behind. That's because he felt if he had even left, like, the lesser chief behind, there's a chance that chief might start a rebellion.
- [27:53]
A
Right.
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D
So everybody had to go. So when, I think he was in Vancouver, came to Waikiki, and he said, there's only old people, and it looks like it's abandoned. There's nothing there. And so he asked the old Hawaiians, you know, what happened? Where's the king? And they said, well, you know, guys showed up, we had to, you know, provide everything. And, like, now we have nothing.
- [28:14]
C
Wow.
- [28:15]
D
Yeah. But there's a lot of special places in Waikiki that have hotels on top of that they're not aware of, which is why those hotels are haunted.
- [28:24]
C
Right.
- [28:25]
D
But it seems, you know, as we're doing this night marcher tour through Kapiolani park, the park itself appears to be, you know, the Sanct in Wi, where it's separate from everything else. There's the zoo. The zoo used to be an island onto itself called Maki Island. Oh, and then there was the rest of Waikiki. I think it was the late 90s, early 2000s, when they're expanding the intersection of Kapula and Kalakaua, Bones on top of bones, you know, they found. So when you go to Kapulu and Kalakaua and you're turning left here is this mound with a wrought iron gate. So the remains that were found there are in that mound today.
- [29:08]
A
I didn't know that.
- [29:09]
D
Yeah. So there's a lot in Waikiki that the hotels will never acknowledge because they don't want their guests to know that there's ghosts in the hotel. But people from Japan come specifically for that.
- [29:20]
A
So they come for the.
- [29:21]
C
Specifically for that.
- [29:23]
D
Yeah, they're looking for it. But for some reason, hotels in Waikiki think, oh, if we tell the Japanese there's ghosts, they're not going to stay. It's like, that's not true.
- [29:31]
A
They want that in Japanese. Obake, right?
- [29:34]
D
Obake yure yokai. All of it.
- [29:37]
C
When I was reading, you were talking about in the book how you were kind of like at a crossroads and you weren't sure where you were going, and then you met this man. I don't remember the man's exact name, but he offered you this map, and it was showing, like, all of the places where the night marchers had Been like, specifically like passed down right from generation to generation, this map. But you refused it.
- [30:06]
D
Yeah.
- [30:07]
C
And that again, head to toe. Goosebumps here. Chicken skin.
- [30:11]
A
Chicken skin?
- [30:12]
D
Yeah.
- [30:12]
A
We're in Hawaii. I have to say chicken all the.
- [30:14]
C
Time on the podcast. And there's they tell us like, don't.
- [30:17]
A
Say chicken skin anymore. You guys say that all the time.
- [30:19]
C
We are chicken skin. That touched me so deeply because that says so much about who you are as a human being. Tell us a little bit about that and why you didn't want it.
- [30:34]
D
It's like if you have a hundred year old recipe for chicken Marsala and you want to give it to me, it's not my recipe, you know, it's your mom's and her mom and her mom. So an entire DNA of your family lineage is in that recipe for chicken Marsala. So if I take it and try to sell it as my own, it's. It's wrong. Morally, it's wrong. And I'm also doing a great disservice to your ancestors. And so that map didn't belong to me. Even though I looked at, I was.
- [31:05]
A
Like, wow, blown away.
- [31:08]
D
Yeah. And when he offered it to me, I said, I can't take this. It's not my bloodline, it's not my Kuleana. So if I take something that's not in my DNA, I said, it might hurt my family, but I'm also hurting, you know, your ancestors, your bloodline.
- [31:24]
A
Yeah.
- [31:25]
D
And saying to them, well, I guess this wasn't good enough for you to have, so I'm going to use it and exploit it. You know.
- [31:31]
A
You wouldn't do that.
- [31:32]
C
You wouldn't do that.
- [31:32]
D
No, I couldn't do that. And so I said, just hold on to it. As he said, nobody in his family was interested because, you know, they're all Protestant Mormon and they actually told them to burn it.
- [31:45]
C
No.
- [31:46]
A
Does he still have it?
- [31:46]
D
You know, still has it. Well, good. So I said, where we're supposed to receive it, you know, that's the person.
- [31:52]
A
Wow.
- [31:53]
D
But I said, it's, it's not me.
- [31:55]
A
Yeah, yeah. But your Kuleana is telling visitors and Kamaina and Hawaiians alike about the night marchers. Now. They do that now. And you give that gift to all of us. That's your Kuleana, I believe, like I.
- [32:16]
D
Said, you know, last night, you know, it's, it's. A lot of it is comes off as far fetched.
- [32:22]
A
I don't think so.
- [32:23]
C
Yeah, no, not to us.
- [32:25]
A
We believe in the supernatural. Not only because we host so supernatural, but yeah, but we're from this aina. Yeah, we know, we know.
- [32:33]
D
Yeah. That's why I say, you know, it might come up off as far fetched but this is who we are.
- [32:39]
A
Yeah, yeah. And will forever be.
- [32:42]
D
Yeah.
- [32:42]
C
Truly, truly.
- [32:47]
A
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- [33:54]
B
Lowe's knows that saving is always top of mind, especially this season. That's why we've picked some great deals for early black Black Friday. Get free select dewalt Cobalt or Craftsman tools when you buy a select battery or combo kit.
- [34:07]
C
More tools?
- [34:08]
B
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- [34:24]
C
Let's listen to Lapaka again from his tour where he shares this supernatural story about our beloved Iolani Palace.
- [34:32]
B
This version of the palace was completed in 1882. The building began in 1879, commissioned by King David Kalakaua. Before that, it was called an old Chicago architectural style bungalow. That's what it was. But by the time David Kalakawa was elected king, it was falling apart. Termite Eden King David Kalakaua won the election over the widowed Queen Emma. And Emma's followers were so upset that David Kalakaua became the king, they grabbed David Kalakaua's followers and bodily threw them off the second story of the courthouse. That was a high second story. So those guys died. So during his reign, up until the new palace was completed, King David Kalakaua gave the widowed Queen Emma what the young people say are all of her flowers, every protocol, every honor, front facing the public that was hers. Because she was a widowed queen, she deserved it. But the King knew behind his back that Emma's followers were sending curses to the palace to kill him. Now, this is one of the worst curses I've seen myself, because it's sent in the form of a spirit. When it's sent in the form of a spirit, it's there to cause dissension and disharmony to the point where people are trying to kill each other. So that's specifically to families, churches, MMA clubs, military organizations, anywhere there's a large group of people. That's the purpose of the spirit, to cause problems to the point where people are trying to kill each other. The problem with that spirit is when it shows up, you can't tell who it is because it looks like everybody else. You can touch it, you can talk to. It doesn't bathe, it stings. So in ancient times, when a kauhale had this problem, they called her Kahuna Poe uhane, the spirit catcher. That kohuna shows up to the kauhali with a wooden bowl made of kawila. And kawila wood is so dense that when you strike it a certain way, it makes a spark. Kawila. The water in the bowl can only be from the deepest part of the ocean. And that water in that bowl is turmeric, olena and red alai salt. All that Kahuna does is he has everyone in that kalahali gather together. And to each and every person, he goes like this with a bowl of water under their face. One by one. People have said he's looking to see if they cast a reflection. He's looking to see if they will drink the water in the bowl. He's actually waiting for you because you stood there for so long, you finally go. Breath leaves. Your body, touches the water surface of the bowl. If it forms a ripple, it's a human being. If nothing happens, the kuhona slaps the water in the bowl, spirit dissipates. But during his reign, the king couldn't have his servants running around the palace grounds all day with bowls of water going up to every single person they see. He had to be covert. So this is coming from Hawaiians today who come from that Emma bloodline. Can you see those two small lights on the top and bottom for him? Behind those are these oval shaped mirrors, outwardly for ornamentation and decoration. But really they're there because purposely the king is a party animal. Parties last a week. This left side of the palace, that's the throne room. So dancing in the throne room, Victorian era Hawaii, heavy clothing. Somebody comes out Breath of fresh air. And because intrinsically, as human beings, we're vain, the next thing we look for is reflective surface. Standing next to those mirrors is the palace guard. Like this watching person leans in, fixes themselves, breathes on a mirror, film a breath human being. Nothing happens. The guard is allowed to take his weapon, smash the mirror, Spirit dissipates. The reason why this curse is so bad is because it is hardly solvable, because you can't tell who it is. When you can't tell who it is. Your next problem is tricking that thing into breathing onto a reflective surface. That's the hard part, which is why it's hardly solvable.
- [38:24]
A
I believe you're doing exactly what you're supposed to be doing and telling the world your Oli, your story. And all of us get to enjoy that and respect it and embrace it.
- [38:40]
C
Yeah, it's a beautiful thing. And that's the perfect word. Embrace it. Because it's so important, especially for people that are coming from the mainland, to be able to know where they're coming and why they're coming. History is so important. You know, it's. It's not just to, you know, lounge.
- [38:59]
A
On the beach and have a Mai.
- [39:01]
C
Tai and have a Mai Tai. You need to know the Hawaiian history and to respect it, respect its people, its culture, its land. And that resonates so deeply with us through you.
- [39:17]
D
That's my advice to most visitors, is, you know, go to this place and keep your mouth shut and just sit there and take in everything. You know, it's as simple as that. Because a lot of times we talk too much. A lot of people talk to hear their own selves speak, and they're missing everything.
- [39:36]
C
Hear, hear.
- [39:37]
D
Yeah.
- [39:38]
C
Say it all the time.
- [39:39]
D
Yeah.
- [39:40]
A
She always tells me to listen more.
- [39:42]
C
Listen, Linda.
- [39:44]
A
Listen, Linda.
- [39:45]
C
But it's very important because people are so in their head, they're thinking about what they need to say and they're not truly hearing what someone else is saying. And you're missing the whole point. So I. I thank you for continuing to share your story and the story of this beautiful island that we grew up on, you know?
- [40:10]
D
Yeah, it's. It's not a job.
- [40:13]
A
No, It's a calling.
- [40:15]
C
And that. And that we can tell.
- [40:17]
D
Well, absolutely. And one of the things my mom said to me, because it was three years of literally sitting at her feet and learning everything, but the last thing she said to me was, everything you've learned up until now is not about you. I was still young and stupid. I said, no, no. I Get it? She goes, no, you don't. She goes, you get older, you'll, you know, you'll realize it. She says, but everything up until now, I've told you, I've taught you, is not about you. So went home because it was in the morning by that point. Went home, walked into the house. The phone rang and I answered it and it was my sister. She said, mom just passed away. So this is three years that mom asked for. And come to find out, mom only had three years. And so she was also going to dialysis at the same time. So my sister said, all of a sudden she's too weak. She can't sit up at the table. So my late brother in law took her to Kuikini and she was like, just couldn't sit up and weak. And then the second they got to Kokini and the attendants, you know, came together and opened the door and grabbed her, my sister said, mom just started screaming, so do it myself. I'm going myself. And so they're like, no, no, you know, be honest. She's like, I said, don't touch me, leave me alone. And she made it two steps and then she was gone.
- [41:48]
A
I'm so sorry. I'm so happy that you had that time with her, though.
- [41:52]
D
Yeah. She and my aunt Ayla and two other people had this Hawaiian music group and all their last names were started with K. Oh, so they were the 4Ks. One of those nights, Auntiella and mom over there just, you know, talking and playing ukulele. And my mom said, you know, we were known for our beautiful Hawaiian music. And Auntiella said, not only that, she says to me, you know, sometimes you're on the stage, we playing music and get somebody in the audience, like, you know, they're drunk. They like make trouble to us. My mom goes, don't. And my auntie goes, so me and her jump off the stage. £ I got.
- [42:33]
A
Oh my God, mom was feisty.
- [42:35]
B
Yeah.
- [42:35]
A
And auntie, that's the pele in her.
- [42:43]
D
And so at my mom's services, Auntiella is like, she goes, how dare you leave me here by myself? You know, we're supposed to go together. And then Auntiella died a month later.
- [42:53]
A
Oh, really? She wanted to be with her.
- [42:56]
C
Yeah, yeah.
- [42:57]
D
Antiella was a kahuna laaulapao. She was very scary. So at her services, like, the mana was like really, really heavy because apparently she died before she could pass on whatever she had. So a lot of that hooky, hooky, that hakaka, that fight within the family was at that funeral because she never appointed everybody. Everybody was like, oh, it was me, it was me. So they're fighting over her kahuna stick.
- [43:24]
A
Oh, my goodness. Who ended up getting it?
- [43:28]
D
I don't know.
- [43:29]
A
You're like, that's not my Kuleana.
- [43:30]
D
Yes.
- [43:34]
B
Yeah.
- [43:34]
D
I literally said that at our services. Like, everybody's like, oh, you think you like them? I was like, no, just don't start now. It won't be. Yeah, just like, just keep it over there.
- [43:43]
C
Yeah.
- [43:43]
A
Well, as we're wrapping up, what is one thing you would love to tell our listeners and tell the world in your own voice about? Anything at all?
- [43:59]
D
I was going to say in the immortal words of Buckaroo Banzai, wherever you go, there you are.
- [44:10]
A
That's pretty epic.
- [44:12]
C
There you have it.
- [44:15]
D
But really, really, what I want to say is this. Think about who it is in your circle, in your life that needs to know from you and only you, that you love them. Might not even be the person you think it is, you know, it might even be yourself. But whoever it is that needs to know from you that you love them, those three words might change their life, you know, change their trajectory. The thought of themselves. As soon as you figure out who that is, call that person. Tell them, I love you.
- [44:49]
A
I love your wife.
- [44:51]
D
Yes.
- [44:53]
C
I love you. We love you.
- [44:58]
D
And if you gotta say, I effing love you, that's funny.
- [45:06]
C
Take that.
- [45:08]
D
So I can imagine the world right now after this recording.
- [45:12]
A
I know that's beautiful.
- [45:15]
B
That is.
- [45:16]
C
And that is a true gift. So thank you. Mahalo Nui Loa Lopaka. You have touched us in ways that you can't even imagine.
- [45:26]
D
We all need it. Absolutely we do. But the honor is mine. Thank you for considering me. Appreciate it.
- [45:32]
A
Mahalo.
- [45:32]
C
Mahalo.
- [45:33]
B
Mahalo.
- [45:34]
A
Oh, there's something wrong with my eyes.
- [45:44]
B
Foreign.
- [45:49]
A
This is so Supernatural. An audio Chuck original produced by Crime House. You can connect with us on Instagram at so supernatural pod and visit our website@sosupernaturalpodcast.com join Yvette and me next Friday for an all new episode. I think Chuck would approve.
- [46:15]
C
Some cases fade from headlines, some never made it there to begin with. I'm Ashley Flowers, and on my podcast the Deck, I tell you the stories of cold cases featured on playing cards, distributed in prisons designed to spark new leads and bring long overdue justice. Because these stories deserve to be heard. Heard and the loved ones of these victims still deserve answers. Are you ready to be dealt in? Listen to the deck now. Wherever you get your podcasts?