THE UNKNOWN: Mandela Effect

Summary

Podcast Summary: So Supernatural – Episode: THE UNKNOWN: Mandela Effect

Podcast Information:

• Title: So Supernatural
• Host/Author: audiochuck | Crime House
• Episode: THE UNKNOWN: Mandela Effect
• Release Date: September 20, 2024
• Description: Exploring true crime’s most bizarre occurrences, delving into the unknown to unravel all possible explanations.

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1. Introduction to the Mandela Effect

In this episode, host Ashley introduces the Mandela Effect, a phenomenon where large groups of people remember events, details, or facts differently from how they occurred. Ashley sets the stage by sharing her own experiences of questioning reality and memory, pondering whether an unknowable force might be altering our perceptions of the past.

Ashley [00:02]: “If you've ever looked at a logo, heard a movie quote, or recalled a cultural event and thought, I swear to God I remember this very differently, just know that you're not alone.”

2. Personal Experiences and Memory Game

Ashley engages her guests, Rasha and Yvette, in a memory game to illustrate the Mandela Effect. They discuss several examples where their memories conflict with reality, highlighting the widespread nature of these discrepancies.

• Berenstain Bears vs. Berenstein Bears:

  • Ashley [05:19]: “I need to hear from you. I have questions.”
  • Rasha: Confidently remembers "Berenstain Bears."
  • Yvette [05:22]: Admits to not recalling the series clearly.

• Fruit of the Loom Logo:

  • Yvette [06:17]: Questions whether the Fruit of the Loom logo ever featured a cornucopia.
  • Ashley [07:43]: Expresses confusion over collective misremembering.

• Monopoly Man’s Monocle:

  • Rasha [07:53]: Asserts the Monopoly Man never had a monocle, contradicting popular belief.

• Sinbad in Shazam vs. Shaquille O'Neal in Kazaam:

  • Ashley [10:39]: Recalls Sinbad starring in "Shazam," only to learn it was Shaquille O'Neal in "Kazaam."
  • Rasha [22:44]: References Sinbad's clarification, though remaining skeptical.

3. Origins and History: Nelson Mandela’s Death

The Mandela Effect is named after the widespread false memory of Nelson Mandela dying in prison during the 1980s, despite his actual death occurring in 2013.

• Fiona Broome’s Revelation:

  • Rasha [12:00]: Details Fiona Broome’s experience of recalling Mandela’s death in prison.
  • Yvette [13:12]: Clarifies Mandela’s actual life timeline and achievements.

• Eileen Colt’s False Memory:

  • Rasha [12:52]: Shares Eileen Colt’s conflicting memories about interviewing Mandela and his supposed death.

4. Scientific Explanations

The podcast delves into scientific interpretations of the Mandela Effect, focusing on memory reliability and psychological phenomena.

• False Memories and the University of Notre Dame Study:

  • Rasha [16:37]: Explains a study where subjects falsely remembered a word related to presented terms, attributing it to memory distortion.

• Confabulation:

  • Yvette [20:10]: Discusses how the brain can create entire storylines to fill memory gaps, particularly in individuals with certain neurological conditions.
  • Rasha [21:26]: Notes that confabulation typically applies to a small segment of the population, questioning wider Mandela Effect occurrences.

5. Alternative Theories

Beyond scientific explanations, the episode explores more speculative theories connecting the Mandela Effect to larger existential questions.

• Split Timelines and Multiple Universes:

  • Rasha [25:13]: Suggests memories might stem from alternate versions of ourselves in different timelines.
  • Yvette [25:37]: References CERN’s Large Hadron Collider and its potential role in creating timeline disruptions.

• Simulation Theory:

  • Yvette [33:02]: Compares the Mandela Effect to Plato’s Allegory of the Cave, suggesting we might live in a computer-simulated reality.
  • Rasha [35:02]: Mentions physicist James Gates’ discovery of computer code in string theory equations as potential evidence of a simulation.

6. The Role of the Internet and Collective Memory

The podcast examines how the internet amplifies and validates false memories, contributing to the Mandela Effect's prevalence.

• Internet as a Validation Tool:
  • Yvette [24:43]: Highlights how online platforms like Reddit and TikTok reinforce shared false memories.
  • Rasha [24:20]: Emphasizes the internet’s role in creating collective false memories.

7. Conclusion and Future Insights

Ashley, Rasha, and Yvette conclude by acknowledging the complexities of the Mandela Effect, agreeing that it challenges our understanding of reality and memory. They express excitement for future episodes where they will continue to explore these enigmatic phenomena.

Yvette [38:18]: “And a lot about our reality that we just don't understand. And you know what? That's okay, because it means that Rasha and I have a lot to dig into in the upcoming months.”

Ashley [39:03]: “This is absolutely not goodbye. I mean, it is barely even a see you later because I have so many exciting things to share with you as So Supernatural continues.”

Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Ashley [00:02]: “Do we have control over our own fate? Who's really pulling the strings?”
• Rasha [12:00]: “There has to be. That's our reality. Right?”
• Yvette [20:10]: “Confabulation is not just a simple 'I thought this happened,' it's a whole narrative.”
• Rasha [25:13]: “Maybe there are other versions of us out there.”
• Yvette [33:02]: “Many say it's a symptom of our own distorted reality. They refer to it as the Simulation theory.”

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Conclusion: This episode of So Supernatural provides an in-depth exploration of the Mandela Effect, blending personal anecdotes with scientific and speculative theories. By examining both established psychological explanations and more fringe ideas like alternate universes and simulation theory, the hosts encourage listeners to ponder the nature of reality and the reliability of their memories. Whether you subscribe to scientific reasoning or lean towards more supernatural interpretations, this episode offers a comprehensive look at one of the most intriguing modern phenomena.

Transcript

[Ashley]

I do this thing in the mornings. You probably have something similar. I wake up, I brush my teeth, check my emails, but then I scroll over to the news app just to see what you know Wild and unfathomable things are happening on planet Earth today. And I don't know about you, but each day seems even more outrageous than the last. From Elon Musk's brain chip implants to Boeing parts falling off mid flight, don't get me started. And China's plan plans to deflect an asteroid. And it all has me thinking like, can this be real? I'm not talking like fake news kind of stuff, but like, is this even our lives? What is reality anymore? It's a question I think we all consider from time to time. Do we have control over our own fate? Who's really pulling the strings? And is there some unknowable force that's actively tinkering with things? Not just now and in the future, but in the past too? If you've ever looked at a logo, heard a movie quote, or recalled a cultural event and thought, I swear to God, I remember this very differently, just know that you're not alone. It has happened to me dozens of times. Even led to like a partial identity crisis or two. Which is why I am absolutely friggin obsessed with getting to the bottom of today's topic. Because the Mandela effect is very real and it is very prevalent and it may be proof that our reality is not reality at all.

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[Yvette]

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[Yvette]

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[Rasha]

Yes, please.

[Yvette]

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[Rasha]

Whoa.

[Yvette]

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[Rasha]

I'm saving it for the holidays.

[Yvette]

Smart. Welcome to your Walmart.

[Ashley]

All right, everyone, if you joined us last week, then you met my friends Rasha and Yvette, who are going to be your hosts for this episode of so Supernatural. Welcome back, ladies.

[Yvette]

Hey, hey, hey. Thanks, Ashley.

[Rasha]

Aloha, Ashley.

[Ashley]

Now, I know this isn't totally the normal format. I promise you guys this is gonna be like the same show you know and love. But, like, if you'll allow me, I actually just want to step out of our comfort zone just a smidgen because what I always missed on this show was my Brit, like, someone to talk about this stuff with. And now that you both are here, like, I'm going to take full advantage of it. So real quick, I want to play this little game. Like, maybe, like, it can be maybe a little get to know you, but more like get to know what reality you grew up in. So are you guys ready? I sent you guys some stuff ahead of time.

[Rasha]

Ready?

[Yvette]

Let's go. Let's do it.

[Ashley]

So we each brought two pictures that we're going to show the others and we're going to explain to you guys at home what we're seeing. But the goal is to see which of these two images we remember being the correct version. And if you want to play along, I'm also posting these on Instagram osupernaturalpod. All right, so I'll go first, if that's okay. So the first is two pictures of a popular children's book about a little family of bears. Now, one is titled the Berenstein Bears, and the other is titled the Berenstain Bears. Which one do you guys remember?

[Rasha]

Berenstain bears. 100%, Yvette.

[Yvette]

And so for me, I do not remember this. I'm a little older than y'all, so I was like, okay, I remember Dr. Seuss and Hansel and Gretel, but when it came to Berenstein Bears, I was like, I don't. I don't really remember this.

[Rasha]

She just said Berenstein. You heard her.

[Ashley]

But she did well. Cause she knows what's right. And I swear it's Berenstain Bears, but apparently it is Bernstein Bears, according to the world we're in right now. Truly messed me up when I realized this. I know I called, like, my entire childhood into question. Like, I would love if there is someone out there who knew that it was Berenstain Bears. Like, I need to hear from you. I have questions.

[Yvette]

That's so funny because it just rolls off the tongue. Berenstain sounds way better than Berenstain. I mean, I'm just saying.

[Ashley]

Sounds better.

[Yvette]

Just saying. Thank you.

[Rasha]

Thank you.

[Ashley]

All right, Yvette, you have. You have the next one. So go ahead.

[Yvette]

I am showing you the Fruit of the Loom logo, and this is the underwear brand, which I do remember Michael Jordan doing a commercial with his mother for Fruit of the Loom, but at the same time, I had this Mandela effect, because was it Hanes or was it Fruit of the Loom? But listen to this. Okay? The logo on the left is the one with the cornucopia, and that's behind a bunch of fruit. And the one on the right has no cornucopia. So do you remember which one is correct?

[Ashley]

You guys, I swear, I remember the cornucopia.

[Rasha]

Totally remember the cornucopia.

[Ashley]

But you've also tripped me up now because he either did Fruit of the Looms and Hanes, or I'm also living in another reality, because I'm pretty sure he did Hanes.

[Yvette]

That's what I'm telling you.

[Ashley]

That's like tripping me up more than even this freaking cornucopia.

[Yvette]

But, you guys, it was Hanes, because it was like, you know, that whole commercial on brief or boxers. But there was one commercial where he was with his mom. And I'm thinking that this was the Fruit of the Loom commercial. But if you go online, it doesn't give you the exact if it's Fruit of the Loom, but you know for sure it's Hanes. I'm telling you, it's another Mandela effect.

[Ashley]

Was he on an airplane? Am I just losing my mind?

[Yvette]

There was one. He was on an airplane as well. That was Hanes. I looked that up, too.

[Rasha]

So Wait, cornucopia. Fruit or no fruit?

[Yvette]

So it's actually the one on the right. Believe it or not, there was never. Let me just repeat it again. There was never any cornucopia behind the fruit.

[Ashley]

How is everyone wrong? Like, nobody, Nobody I talk to says berenstain, nobody has the cornucopia. Like, or doesn't have it? I don't know. Okay, Raja, what did you bring?

[Rasha]

So I have two pictures, and this is of the Monopoly man, you guys. So one is the little Monopoly man with the monocle. You know, the little glass over his one eye, and the other without the monocle. So which is it?

[Yvette]

It's with.

[Ashley]

It's obvious. It's with the monocle.

[Yvette]

Yeah. Hello.

[Rasha]

Yeah. No, no monocle. No monocle.

[Yvette]

It's not right. I'm just saying.

[Ashley]

That's not right. That's what I'm saying. That's not real.

[Rasha]

I know, I know. So apparently, and this hurts my brain, but he never had a monocle, though. I. There is a board game in someone's 1990s closet that says differently. There has to be. That's our. That's our reality. Right?

[Yvette]

Yeah. And I'm thinking I'm gonna find.

[Ashley]

I'm gonna find it.

[Rasha]

Yeah, we need to find it.

[Ashley]

Yeah.

[Yvette]

Yeah. Because I do not believe that 100%. I was the Monopoly Queen, and I could swear in my vision right now that he had a monocle. I mean, honestly, so many of these have freaked me out. I just don't even know what to believe or not. But apparently the famous line from Star wars is not luke, I am your father. Like, everyone quotes. Okay, my favorite.

[Ashley]

That's always what I heard.

[Rasha]

Yeah.

[Yvette]

My favorite actor, James Earl Jones, who was the voice. Instead, what is said is, no, I am your father.

[Ashley]

Both of those were so wildly different. I don't know how they came from.

[Rasha]

The same person voices, too.

[Ashley]

This is the only one that I can all give a pass because I never got into Star Wars. I don't even know that I've ever actually, like, seen the full movie that, like, the one. Whatever one this comes from. So when I've heard it, it's just been from other people saying it, but I know. Yeah, but at the same time, it's like, what has been the, like, accepted line. That's why so many people are repeating it.

[Yvette]

Right, right, right, right.

[Rasha]

Oh, my God. Wait, and there's another one that we need to debate, and I need your opinion on.

[Yvette]

Oh, boy.

[Rasha]

Well, actually, I don't need your opinion on. I'm Just going to tell you, the one that blew my mind was. Apparently it's not Oscar Mayer wieners, but Oscar Mayer wieners with an A. Yeah. Something changed in the space time continuum. That's all I have to say.

[Ashley]

The one that drives me nuts. Okay, so I could have sworn as a kid that I saw the actor Sinbad play a genie in a movie called Shazam. And I know I'm not the only one who knows this, but apparently me and like 50% of the Internet are just wrong. And it was actually Shaquille O'Neal in a movie called Cuz Am. And I. Like, I have never been so dead set on proving something existed in my whole life. Like this. Like, this is.

[Rasha]

This is the alternate universe for me. Because I remember vividly when this movie came out. Yvette and I were living together in la, and I swear it was Shaquille, but it was called Shazam.

[Ashley]

Oh, my gosh. So you got like a mixture of all the realities. Like, it, like whatever happened, happened in that moment. You went to the theater.

[Yvette]

Y. Oh my God.

[Rasha]

That's embarrassing to say that. I did go and see it in the theater.

[Yvette]

I did not. I did. Oh, my God. Okay, I just have to say that first of all, it's just. This is hysterical to me because Sinbad and Shaq are so very different looking.

[Ashley]

So accurate.

[Yvette]

Yeah, like very, very, very different looking. Right. But what I can say is that Sinbad used to always wear like these baggy kind of MC Hammer kind of like genie looking attire. So maybe people just kind of, you know, mesh it all together. You know, mesh.

[Ashley]

I remember the COVID Like, I remember it. And I also feel like everyone wore that like baggy genie stuff in the 80s, like early 90s. That was just like, attire for everyone.

[Rasha]

I know.

[Ashley]

Listen, I could play this game all day. There are all sorts of different variations. I mean, there's ones that are logos, spellings, geography. Like things shouldn't move on planet Earth, but somehow they do. Like, for example, some people think New Zealand moved its position on the map. Like, no joke.

[Rasha]

Oh, no way.

[Ashley]

I'm terrible at geography, so I would never know the difference. But the thing that really kicked off the Mandela effect and literally gave it its name was the perceived death of Nelson Mandela himself. So if we're going to talk about this, I think that's where we should begin.

[Rasha]

Exactly. So here's how it all started. Around 2009 or 2010, this researcher named Fiona Broome is at some conference somewhere. That part isn't important. What is important Is she starts talking to people about how she vividly remembers Nelson Mandela dying in a South African prison in the 1980s. But not just a fleeting headline. She says she remembers news coverage, clips of his funeral, even his widow giving some heartfelt televised speech after his passing.

[Yvette]

And she's not alone. A bunch of other people have these same memories about Nelson Mandela's death.

[Rasha]

Exactly. So she goes home, creates this Internet forum, and it is flooded with all of this feedback, People saying, wait a second, I thought this, too. You mean to tell me that's not how Nelson Mandela died?

[Yvette]

This is wild, y'all, because for those who don't know, Mandela didn't die in prison in South Africa, although He did spend 27 years there for opposing policies designed to keep black citizens segregated. Y'all do remember apartheid, but Mandela was actually released in 1990. He even went on to become the president of South Africa and won the Nobel Peace Prize. He lived a nice, long life, and he didn't pass away until 2013 at the age of 95. So he was very much alive when Fiona Broome had her epiphany.

[Rasha]

I forgot that he lived until he was 95. So while Fiona knew Mandela was still around at the time, she still swore she had memories of some alternate version of history, a very specific alternate version of history, which thousands of others seem to remember in great detail as well. For example, there's this YouTube blogger named Eileen Colt. Before Mandela's supposed death in the late 80s, she was a journalism student who actually flew to South Africa to interview him. But when she got there, she said she was told the interview had been canceled because Mandela was very ill. Cut to a year so later, 1986 or 87. She's working at NPR in Chicago, where she hears reports Mandela has died in prison. She remembers thinking it was especially tragic because he was only a few weeks away from being released. But it continues. Eileen said she remembered his wife, Winnie Mandela, taking up Nelson's cause, even assuming the role as leader of his resistance movement after his passing, which is another detail commonly repeated by people who shared this apparently incorrect memory.

[Yvette]

It's the specifics of these stories that really get under my skin, because I heard something similar when it came to the death of the famous Baptist preacher named Billy Graham. I don't know if you remember, Rasha. Actually, you probably. You don't, because you weren't born. But mom used to go to Billy Graham revivals.

[Rasha]

She did.

[Yvette]

She did. She did.

[Rasha]

I did not know that.

[Yvette]

Listen to this. Like Nelson Mandela, there were dozens of people who remembered Billy Graham dying in the late 1990s. They even recalled a speech given by then President Bill Clinton at his funeral. Except Graham didn't die in the late 90s. He died in 2018, just shy of 100 years old. But if you go on Reddit, you'll see a bunch of stories about people who have this same memory. Some have full day's worth memories surrounding the 1990s version of this event. One anonymous person claimed their grandparents were some of Graham's most devout followers. And in the 90s, this person remembered getting a magazine in the mail that announced Graham's death. On the front cover, they said that their grandparents were devastated and talked about his death for days after it happened. They even went to a Christian conference where they said Billy's son got up and gave a heartfelt speech about his father's passing.

[Rasha]

So this wasn't just a quick hey, I swore there was a cornucopia behind the Fruit of the Loom logo.

[Yvette]

No, this was a cornerstone memory, something that supposedly had a great impact on their entire family.

[Rasha]

So it's these details that feel so real, so prominent that have me wondering what is the Mandela Effect really a symptom of? Is it some faulty wiring in our brains? Or is it actually a glitch in the Matrix?

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[Rasha]

In 2017. Scientists from the Sleep Stress and Memory Lab at the University of Notre Dame put the Mandela effect to the test. To them, it seemed obvious that this was just some biological blip, a short circuit in our brain's wiring. The study went like this. Subjects were presented with a list of words that were all related. Nurse, hospital, needle. They went out, had a little lunch, came back and were asked to pick those same words out of a list. But that list also included what they called a critical lure word. In this case, it was doctor. Many subjects ended up picking the word doctor, swearing it was paired with the original words, likely because it was so closely related to the other terms. Scientists attributed it to something called false memories. Mainly because our memories aren't always reliable. They have the ability to become distorted over time, especially if they're influenced by outside factors. Which I think could explain some of the simpler, more common Mandela effects. Like why people remember the Monopoly man wearing a monocle. He's dressed with clothes from a time period where the monocle Fitz. And that was trendy during the time. Right. He's an important and wealthy looking little dude. Your mind fills in the blanks for you.

[Yvette]

Yeah, but what it doesn't explain, at least in my mind, is the wide range of people who have these full blown memories of certain things from their past. Like Fiona BROOME and that YouTube blogger, Eileen Coltz.

[Rasha]

Yeah, I will say the brain is a very confusing organ. Research shows that it's capable of shaping memories more and more over time. Sometimes they can be attributed to the wrong source. Sometimes we might hear a story from a friend and remember it as our own experience. I mean, I've seen this happen in true crime with false confessions. Hello. People can induce memories in someone else that never actually occurred, which is terrifying.

[Yvette]

But other times, people are capable of plugging giant holes in their memory all on their own. And scientists call this specific thing confabulation. And basically, the mind creates entire storylines that don't exist to fill in the gaps. Not necessarily on purpose, but it can lead some people to think events happened in a completely different way. But here's the thing with confabulation. It's not just a simple wait, I thought that happened at Joe's birthday, not Pam's. It's a whole entire narrative. And it's typically more prevalent in people who live with bipolar disorder. Brain injuries, Alzheimer's, and dementia.

[Rasha]

Meaning it only applies to a small percentage of the population.

[Yvette]

Exactly.

[Rasha]

Which is why I have a hard time understanding how there's so many people with the same memories of something different. Like, let's go back to that Sinbad Shazam. Example Ashley brought up earlier. Here you have hundreds, if not thousands of people who've come together on online to say they clearly remember a movie where Sinbad played a genie. A lot of people even remembered the plot being the same. Two little kids summoning a genie played by Sinbad and wishing that their father would find love again after their mother died. But the movie that actually exists is called Kazaam, starring Shaquille O'Neal. In it, one little boy finds a genie and uses his wish to be reunited with his estranged father. Same. Same, but different.

[Yvette]

A full blown memory nonetheless. But even weirder, there's people online who say Shazam didn't replace their memory of Kazaam. In fact, they distinctly remembered both films from their childhood. Some even wondered why they were making practically the same exact film with Shaq after the one with Sinbad had just come out. I mean, similar plotline and all. But the truth was, the Sinbad version never existed. At least not in this timeline.

[Rasha]

Not ever, if you were to ask Sinbad. By 2016, Sinbad became so synonymous with the Mandela effect that he actually tweeted to clear up the confusion. He also said he'd solved the mystery. He claimed that back in 1994, he hosted an afternoon special of Sinbad movies on TV where he dressed up as Sinbad the Sailor, a fictional pirate like character whose costume did look a whole heck of a lot like a genie. But I don't know. That's kind of a stretch for me.

[Yvette]

I mean, I totally do remember this movie, and I can see how people can put the two together and kind of combine it. I don't know. I'm just saying maybe.

[Rasha]

Well, he also did a movie in 1995, which I remember called House Guest, where he's popping out of a mailbox. So maybe that contributed to it as well.

[Yvette]

You know, popping out of a mailbox, popping out like a genie, you know?

[Rasha]

Right. Same, same, but different. So his reasoning was people must have been conflating all of these memories of him.

[Yvette]

Pirates, genie, mailbox, magic lamp. I mean, I guess I don't totally think that's the answer, but I think we trust our memories more than we should.

[Rasha]

True.

[Yvette]

Some people argue that the Internet plays a huge part in all of this, especially under the umbrella of collective false memory. Think about it this way. The Internet is the perfect place for people to go and validate their beliefs, right or wrong. And the more they hear or read about them, the more likely they are to believe that they're true.

[Rasha]

So true. Like, would we be so sure about the sinbad movie if TikTok and Reddit weren't drilling it into our heads repeatedly?

[Yvette]

Yeah, but here's the thing about false memories. While scientists have some pretty educated guesses on how memories are formed and stored, they still don't have concrete understanding on how memory actually works.

[Rasha]

That's so true. Even Wilma Bainbridge, a neuroscientist at the University of Chicago, said, and I quote, while the Mandela effect shows up across different types of experiments, there's no one clear explanation for it. So basically, they're saying anything that tries to explain the Mandela effect away through biology is nothing more than speculation.

[Yvette]

Exactly. Which is why I think you're right. Because the answer's a lot more complicated than just misremembering.

[Rasha]

Like Ashley mentioned earlier, there's a chance that what we know to be reality isn't reality at all. Every day we make hundreds of thousands of choices. What to eat, who we spend our time with. Tiny little things we don't even put any thought into, like scratching an itch. But have you ever done one of those things, then thought to yourself, what if I didn't make that choice?

[Yvette]

So, like, maybe somewhere out there, you know what? There's a version of me that didn't stay in tonight with a carton of Ben and Jerry's. Or maybe there's another version of me out on the town who's rubbing elbows with someone important, who's offering me some life altering opportunity. You know what I'm saying? Yes.

[Rasha]

Let's manifest it. It's something I actually think about a lot, believe it or not. And the reason I'm so fascinated by the Mandela effect is because I think it could be evidence that maybe there are other versions of us out there. Maybe they do exist. In fact, I think a lot of people who believe in the Mandela effect think that, like, maybe it's a peek at a memory from a different timeline before we split off into the one we're now.

[Yvette]

I don't know if you get on board with that. You end up going down a deep rabbit hole of string theory, quantum mechanics, and other scientific theories. Things that are way far too confusing to try and drill into anyone in a half an hour podcast episode. I'm just saying. But I have heard one theory about how these Split timelines may have happened that I think is worth sharing. It involves CERN, or the European Organization for Nuclear Research and their Large Hadron Collider.

[Rasha]

So for those of you who aren't familiar, the Hadron Collider is a massive particle accelerator that went live at CERN's facilities in Geneva back in 2008.

[Yvette]

The TLDR is this. The collider shoots particles at incredible speeds and in some cases, smashes them together. It was designed to test how particles worked on their smallest level and basically recreate the conditions that existed shortly after the Big Bang.

[Rasha]

Now, you don't need to be a physicist to think this idea is both terrifying and exciting. The Hadron Collider could lead to incredible things, like new technologies in the field of medicine and science.

[Yvette]

But there's others who believe it may lead to some pretty scary things, like the possible creation of dark matter, which.

[Rasha]

People think could create a rip in the space time continuum. Huh. No big deal, right?

[Yvette]

The prevailing theory on the Internet is that the Hadron Collider might have altered our timeline or unknowingly opened a portal to some alternate universe when it was activated back in 2008.

[Rasha]

Which is weird because Fiona Broome brought the Mandela Effect to everyone's attention a year or so later, around 2009 or 2010. That can't be a coincidence.

[Yvette]

Exactly. The idea is this. After the collider went online, people started slowly noticing that memories from their past, like Mandela dying, didn't seem to exist anymore, leading many to wonder, was the Hadron Collider the cause? It's crazy, right? When you really start to think about this stuff, it's like, mind blowing. The accusations connecting the Mandela Effect to CERN got so loud that in 2017, a scientist from the center named Clara nellis responded on TikTok.

[Rasha]

I think the post was a reaction to one specific Mandela Effect. The idea that many people seem to remember my favorite cookie of all time, the Oreo cookie, being called Double Stuffed rather than double Stuff, which is what they actually were. Which boggles my mind. Cause I've always said double Stuffed with the dd.

[Yvette]

I think everybody we know. I had this conversation with my husband last night. I was like, what is it called? He's like, double Stuffed. I'm like, no, it's not. But yes, it is. That's what we remember, right? It's just crazy. But Clara replied to this saying, there are much higher energy particle collisions happening in our atmosphere all the time. I can promise we are not going around changing the labels on your food Which I respect, but I don't think it's something CERN would ever do intentionally.

[Rasha]

I still wonder, though, if it's possible that something slipped under their radar. Like, could the hadron collider be opening doors in other universes without them even knowing?

[Yvette]

Well, in some circles, physicists believe the way to make these doorways is by creating dark matter, which the collider can theoretically detect. And like we said earlier, maybe on some level, even create.

[Rasha]

Which brings us to an adjacent theory. Time travel.

[Yvette]

Talk about making other choices and doing things differently. Well, this theory is certainly out there, and I can't help but entertain it.

[Rasha]

Like, what if there are time travelers really in our midst? And what if they've been changing things about the past that some of us remember but don't seem to exist currently? Hypothetically, it could work something like this. A time traveler named Eugene comes back to the year 1993, right before Shazam Was made. In Eugene's timeline. Sinbad did make the movie Shazam. And Eugene gets super excited about this when he spots Sinbad out at a coffee shop one day. But when he goes up to talk to him, he spills his drink all over Sinbad's copy of the Shazam Script, which he was planning to read that afternoon. Sinbad says, ah, forget it. Tosses the script out, never even reads the thing. Tells his agent he's passing on it, doesn't want to make the movie anymore. Next thing you know, an offer goes out to Shaq, and suddenly he's giving notes and starring in that version of the film Kazam. A series of events that unfolded one way in Eugene's timeline and another way in ours.

[Yvette]

Yeah, but I think the only way it could work would be if somewhere along the lines, our timeline and Eugene's timelines merged. So leaving some of us with memories of Sinbad and others with memories of Shaq. You know what I mean? It truly hurts my head to think about it too hard, but I guess it's possible.

[Rasha]

I think there's another explanation, though. Something that seems so wild, it wasn't even fathomable 100, even 25 years ago.

[Yvette]

This one is kind of my favorite.

[Rasha]

Mine too. Maybe not so sure, but it is the one I'm most terrified of.

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[Yvette]

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[Yvette]

The ancient Greek philosopher Plato once told this story story called the Allegory of the Cave. Inside the cave is a group of prisoners who've been chained to a wall since birth. There is a fire behind them and an opening in which people act like puppeteers, holding up certain objects. The prisoners have only ever faced away from the fire and the people, so they only ever see the shadows on the wall. The prisoners don't know that those shadows belong to other people. They think the shadows are their own conscious beings. That is their reality. But Plato argued that if those prisoners broke their chains and stepped out into the light, their eyes would eventually adjust and finally they'd see the truth.

[Rasha]

Sounds a little bit like the plot to the Matrix, the red pill or the blue pill.

[Yvette]

It's also very similar to the Mandela effect because many say it's a symptom of our own distorted reality. They refer to it as the Simulation theory. Basically, we are living in a computer simulated program, a game, if you will, and the people playing this messed up version of the Sims are some very, very distant descendants of ours who have a lot more technology than we do. So think of them as having a computer so advanced that the graphics are indistinguishable from reality itself. A concept that doesn't sound so absurd when you think about how far video games have come in our day alone. Right, Rasha? I mean, we were never big gamers. Game players. But no, I know a lot of people. Ex boyfriends.

[Rasha]

Ex boyfriends. That's the only reason I've ever played video games. Or with your ex boyfriends, yes, who.

[Yvette]

Were obsessed with these games. So.

[Rasha]

Which is why many futurists believe we may not even be real humans. Only computer generated avatars made to believe that we're real humans.

[Yvette]

What the hell oh, boy. Oh, my goodness. All right, so if you've ever played a video game, then you know they can be played from start to finish many times. That the scenarios can change, the characters can change, the logos can change, any number of versions can change.

[Rasha]

The theory being, if we're just characters, the Mandela effects are memories of those subtle changes from past simulations.

[Yvette]

Exactly. If that's the case, it's no longer about proving whether the Mandela effect is real. It's about proving whether the Mandela effect is just a symptom of a much larger mind blowing reality. Because it turns out that's not the only thing suggesting we may live in some computer generated world.

[Rasha]

This will blow your mind. But in 2017, researchers at the University of Washington proved they could actually take physical strands of DNA and embed them with computer code. On top of that, a theoretical physicist named James Gates claimed to find computer code embedded in the equation for string theory. So don't ask me why or how. All I know is that he called them error correcting codes, similar to the things that make web browsers work.

[Yvette]

And if you need more evidence, think about this. How is it that the Earth is in the perfect Goldilocks zone, offering the exact specifications needed for life to survive? And despite our best efforts, scientists still haven't been able to find any other place like it in the universe. Nowhere else mirrors Earth's conditions. I mean, I'm just saying it's pretty serendipitous that we found ourselves here on the one planet that could support life. Unless we're all living in a simulation.

[Rasha]

Maybe, maybe.

[Yvette]

I don't know. And I also saw people on the Internet pointing to that wild Facebook dress fiasco we had back in 2015. I know you remember this, Rasha, because you're the one who sent me this picture. Is it blue and black or is it white or gold? Is it this or that? You know, and I was like, no, it's. It's blue. It's blue and gold or whatever.

[Rasha]

And, you know, and you said it was white, Right?

[Yvette]

So it's like half saw it one way, half saw at the other. And many say that things like this are proof that there is a glitch in the simulation. But I think this could explain some supernatural phenomenon, like, I don't know, like ghosts, for example. How is it after centuries, we are still no closer to explaining poltergeist or other hauntings?

[Rasha]

Glitch in the simulation.

[Yvette]

Thank you, Rasha. But the more that I think about it, the more it starts to add up. Especially because These Mandela effects aren't slowing down. And this, for instance, like Shaggy from Scooby Doo doesn't have an Adam's apple. Like. What? He's always had an Adam's apple.

[Rasha]

Always had an Adam's apple. Are you trying to tell me he didn't?

[Yvette]

I don't know. That's what some people are saying. Maybe.

[Rasha]

Okay. And apparently Britney Spears, my birthday twin, was never wearing a headset in the Oops, I did it again music video, even though I clearly remember her having one. I swear, these get more and more frustrating by the day. And I'm sorry, but I don't like being told that it's my memory's fault.

[Yvette]

I agree. And I think there's a lot about our reality that we just don't understand. And you know what? That's okay, because it means that Rasha and I have a lot to dig into in the upcoming months.

[Rasha]

I couldn't be more excited and honored to be on this show. We promise you and we promise Ashley, we are gonna take care of her baby and we will deliver.

[Yvette]

And you guys hit us up on Social because we want to know what Mandela effects you remember. Hit us up at so Supernatural Pod and we'll see you next week. Bye.

[Ashley]

I hope you loved today's episode. And listen, don't worry. You can't get rid of me that easily. This is absolutely not goodbye. I mean, it is barely even a see you later because I have so many exciting things to share with you as so Supernatural continues. Not only have I made sure that every single absolutely wild topic has been handpicked and vetted by yours truly, but I will be popping in every week to say hi and to let you know exactly why each episode is so special. So make sure you hit that follow button because you never know what mysteries the next episode might bring.

[Rasha]

This is so Supernatural. An audio Chuck and Crime House podcast. You can connect with us on Instagram pod and on our website, sosupernaturalpodcast.com join Yvette and me next Friday for an all new episode. So what do you think, Chuck? Do you approve?

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