THE UNKNOWN: Reincarnation

Summary

So Supernatural: THE UNKNOWN - Reincarnation

Release Date: August 8, 2025
Host/Author: audiochuck | Crime House

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Introduction to Reincarnation

In the episode titled "THE UNKNOWN: Reincarnation," hosts Rasha Pecorero and Yvette Gentile delve deep into one of humanity's most enduring mysteries: what happens after we die. Exploring the concept of reincarnation, they examine whether our souls return to Earth in new forms, presenting compelling stories and expert insights to shed light on this enigmatic phenomenon.

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Host Perspectives and Beliefs

Rasha and Yvette open the discussion by expressing their belief in reincarnation, setting the stage for the exploration of personal experiences and scientific research that supports this idea.

Yvette Gentile emphasizes personal experiences:
"Eyvette and I both believe in reincarnation and past lives." [04:46]

Rasha Pecorero adds her perspective on the mystery surrounding death:
"Death maybe the greatest mystery of our entire existence." [02:10]

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Ryan Hammons' Story: Unveiling a Past Life

The centerpiece of the episode is the extraordinary case of Ryan Hammons, a five-year-old boy from Oklahoma whose life took a dramatic turn after a critical surgery.

Cindy Hammons, Ryan's mother, recounts her son's miraculous recovery:
"For the first time in his entire life, Ryan can actually talk." [02:10]

Post-surgery, Ryan begins to exhibit behaviors and articulate memories that suggest he may be recalling a past life as a Hollywood talent agent named Marty Martin. His detailed accounts include:

• Fascination with Los Angeles and Hollywood:
  "Ryan says he wants to go and visit Los Angeles because he loves everything that has to do with the entertainment industry and movie making." [09:30]

• Specific Memories:
  Ryan mentions loving a brand of orange soda, Tru Aid, which ceased production in the 1950s, and demonstrates an uncanny ability to use chopsticks despite never having been taught.

• Emotional Turmoil and Transformation:
  After encountering a photograph resembling Marty Martin, Ryan's behavior becomes increasingly intense and anxious, culminating in a trip to Los Angeles to meet Marty's daughter. This meeting appears to provide him with closure, after which his memories of Marty fade, allowing him to lead a more typical childhood.

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Research and Investigation by Jim Tucker

Realizing the depth of Ryan's memories, Cindy reaches out to Jim Tucker, a researcher specializing in children's memories of past lives at the University of Virginia.

Rasha Pecorero explains,
"His specialty is children who remember past lives." [19:42]

Jim Tucker collaborates with Hollywood archivists to verify Ryan's claims, uncovering that:

• Marty Martin's Identity:
  Marty was a lesser-known Hollywood agent who encouraged actors to adopt memorable stage names. His lifestyle details, including multiple marriages and international travel, align closely with Ryan's descriptions.

• Validation of Memories:
  Out of 55 claims made by Ryan, 55 were accurate, including the fact that Marty owned a green car exclusive to himself and had a passion for Chinese food.

This extensive validation lends significant credibility to the possibility of reincarnation in Ryan's case.

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Additional Cases Supporting Reincarnation

Beyond Ryan's story, the hosts highlight other compelling cases that reinforce the argument for reincarnation:

Barbro Carlin: A Connection to Anne Frank

• Early Signs:
  At two years old, Barbro begins expressing a desire to be someone else, specifically Anne Frank, years before "The Diary of Anne Frank" gained widespread recognition.

• Synchronicity During a Visit to Amsterdam:
  At age ten, Barbro leads her family to Anne Frank's former home in Amsterdam with uncanny accuracy, further strengthening the case for her past-life memories.

• Emotional Recognition:
  Upon meeting an Anne Frank cousin, a profound sense of connection is observed, suggesting a deep, possibly karmic link between them.

Dr. Ian Stevenson's Pioneering Research

• Scientific Exploration:
  Starting in 1961, Dr. Ian Stevenson conducted rigorous studies on children who claimed to remember past lives, carefully documenting and verifying their accounts.

• Findings:

  • Accuracy of Memories: Many children provided specific and verifiable details about their alleged past lives.
  • Psychological Impact: Recalling past lives can lead to emotional distress, highlighting the complexity of reincarnation beyond mere belief.
  • Concurrent Phenomena: Some subjects exhibited extrasensory perceptions (ESPs), such as predicting future events or recalling details about their own deaths.

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Insights on the Nature and Purpose of Reincarnation

Rasha and Yvette discuss various theories on why reincarnation might occur, drawing from Jim Tucker's insights:

• Completion of Unfinished Business:
  Souls may reincarnate to fulfill goals or rectify regrets left unaddressed in previous lives.

• Choice in Reincarnation:
  Some believe that souls have agency in selecting their next life circumstances, enabling personal growth and learning.

• Impact of Traumatic Deaths:
  Violent or sudden deaths might disrupt the natural forgetting process, causing memories of past lives to surface in the new incarnation.

Yvette Gentile reflects:
"Maybe that's why they're back… to have another shot at fulfilling our destinies." [43:50]

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Scientific and Philosophical Implications

The hosts ponder the broader implications of reincarnation:

• Opportunity for Research:
  Reincarnation presents a frontier for scientific exploration, potentially offering insights into consciousness and the afterlife.

• Philosophical Comfort:
  Believing in reincarnation can provide solace, suggesting that death is not an ultimate end but a transition to another existence.

• Moral and Ethical Considerations:
  Understanding reincarnation could influence how individuals perceive life choices, relationships, and personal growth.

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Conclusion: Embracing the Mystery

Wrapping up the episode, Rasha and Yvette emphasize the profound comfort and hope that the concept of reincarnation can offer:

Yvette Gentile concludes,
"If change is eternal, then so is hope. A grander existence is even more possible than we know." [43:50]

They encourage listeners to remain open to the mysteries of existence, suggesting that the possibilities of reincarnation provide a hopeful outlook on life and beyond.

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Notable Quotes

• Rasha Pecorero:
  "Death maybe the greatest mystery of our entire existence." [02:10]

• Yvette Gentile:
  "Maybe that's why they're back… to have another shot at fulfilling our destinies." [43:50]

• Rasha Pecorero:
  "It's like all of those memories faded not long after he got back from LA." [28:27]

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Closing Remarks

This episode of So Supernatural masterfully intertwines personal narratives with scientific research, presenting a compelling case for reincarnation. Through the detailed exploration of Ryan Hammons' past-life memories and additional supporting cases, Rasha and Yvette invite listeners to ponder the profound possibilities that lie beyond death.

For more intriguing discussions on the supernatural, connect with So Supernatural on Instagram @sosupernaturalpod and visit sosupernaturalpodcast.com.

Transcript

[Ashley Flowers]

Hi, I'm Ashley Flowers.

[Britt]

And I'm Britt. And if you're on the edge of your seat listening to this show, Crime Junkie needs to be your next listen.

[Ashley Flowers]

Every Monday, I dive into a new true crime case that our reporting team has been on the ground looking into. From lesser known disappearances to the most chilling cases hitting the headlines. And I'm gonna walk you through it the way I tell my best friend, because, well, that's what I'm doing.

[Britt]

Yeah, that's me. And I'm right there with you as we listen together, react to every wild detail. And of course I ask all the.

[Ashley Flowers]

Questions and I'm gonna have the answers because we have case files, we're talking to detectives and family members, and we're gonna stay focused on the facts.

[Britt]

So if you're not already listening to Crime Junkie, what are you waiting for? There are over 300 episodes available right.

[Ashley Flowers]

Now, and you can listen to new episodes of Crime Junkie every Monday. Wherever you get your podcasts.

[Rasha Pecorero]

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[Ashley Flowers]

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[Ashley Flowers]

One of the single most devastating things we can go through in life is losing someone we love. Because I think most of us can agree death just feels so permanent, right? You wonder, will I ever get to see that person again? Hold Them, touch them and tell them I love them. It's questions like that that make death maybe the greatest mystery of our entire existence. I mean, people literally go to war over what they believe happens to us after we're gone. But like any great mystery, there are always clues, little signs that might provide answers if we examine them close enough. For example, if you've ever noticed a little bird sitting outside your window or were visited by a stray dog or locked eyes with a child after someone's passing, and thought, there's something about this encounter that feels intrinsically different, like peaceful, happy, familiar. Well, you're not alone. And that feeling might not be a fluke. It might be reincarnation, the idea that our souls come back to earth in a new host to live a brand new life after we pass. But for some, the evidence extends far beyond just a feeling, which is why today, Rasha and Yvette are going to share some stories from people who have had pretty infallible evidence that reincarnation is more than just a religious belief, that it might be the answer to one of mankind's longest mysteries. I'm Ashley Flowers. And this is so supernatural.

[Rasha Pecorero]

Happy Aloha Friday. I'm Rasha Pecorero.

[Yvette Gentile]

And I'm Yvette Gentile. And today we are talking about one of life's biggest mysteries. What happens after we die? I mean, every belief system, system thinks they may have the answer. But today we're talking about one possibility we find extremely fascinating. Reincarnation.

[Rasha Pecorero]

Eyvette and I both believe in reincarnation in past lives. But, Eyvette, you have one story in particular about reincarnation that you have to share with our listeners before we get started on today's story.

[Yvette Gentile]

Okay, so this happened back in the late 80s. And this is when mom and I first went to the Franklin house. And that is where George Hodel, our great grandfather, Mom's grandfather, used to live. So this was the second owner. I forget the woman's name. But anyhow, she invited us in. We did a walk through of the house. I went to the very end of the house. And this is the house that is built by Lloyd Wright. So, you know, the rooms are all around the outside. Well, at the very end of the house, you're looking out upon the pool, and it's kind of like a. A little stage. And, you know, we went up there. She was giving us a tour. And I had this incredible experience that I felt like I was performing. I was this woman who was in this kind of flappers outfit. And I was singing and dancing, and I was the entertainment. And as I was looking out onto the crowd, there was, you know, all these people, right, that were enjoying whatever I was doing. But again, I had no idea what I was actually seeing, right? So fast forward to Mom's celebration of life. And we're all there, and we're with Patty Jenkins. And Patty starts telling us this story about this woman who was friends with George, and her name was Maddie Comfort, and she was. She was a singer, she was an entertainer, and she used to go to that house all the time. So I don't know if I was having a past life experience. I have no idea. But I had never been through or seen anything like that before.

[Rasha Pecorero]

Now, clearly, Yvette, you and I absolutely believe there must be something to this. Past lives, reincarnation, all these supernatural, mystical things. But of course, we don't absolutely know what happens after we die. But getting into today's story, one woman named Cindy Hammons thinks she knows for sure what happens after we die. Just to preface it, she's a lifelong Christian, and she accepts all, all of the things that her church teaches. You know, like if you believe in Jesus, you get to spend eternity in heaven, that sort of thing. But on one tense day back in 2008, Cindy's trying to think about absolutely anything but death or dying because her four year old son Ryan is about to get surgery for a chronic condition. So of course she's worried about her son. So basically, Ryan has too much tissue growing at the back of his throat, and it makes it impossible for him to speak at all. And it could also interfere with his breathing. But the operation will have that tissue removed. So when the doctors bring Cindy into her son's recovery room, she's super relieved to hear everything went as great as it could have. Better than great, actually. For the first time in his entire life, Ryan can actually talk. So right off the bat, he's able to speak in complete sentences, which, you know, that makes sense. He's four years old. He understands English perfectly. It's just that now he's physically able to vocalize his thoughts. And over the next few days and weeks, he starts telling his parents everything that is on his mind. You know, his likes and dislikes, his opinions, his thoughts. And almost immediately, like within the first few days after his surgery, Ryan also tells Cindy something incredibly specific. He says he wants to go and visit Los Angeles because he loves everything that has to do with the entertainment industry and movie making. And Ryan's statements to his parents start Getting even stranger from there. Whenever they're watching TV and the Hollywood sign appears on screen, he gets really excited. Then he starts talking about how he actually lives there right now and not in the past and that he wants to visit his home there. Except Ryan has spent his entire life in Oklahoma and this isn't a one time thing. He keeps talking about this alleged other home in California every single chance he gets.

[Yvette Gentile]

I can't even begin to speculate on what his parents think about this. Can you imagine your five year old child is telling you, you know, all these things that he has never lived before in his life, like that is crazy. But I mean, Rasha, if Leilani was to do that, what would you think? Would you believe her?

[Rasha Pecorero]

100%? I'd believe her. I would just keep inquiring and asking question after question after question.

[Yvette Gentile]

Yeah, I have to say, I mean, I don't have children, but I would do the same exact things because kids are so in tune, like way more in tune than we actually give them credit for. So I would absolutely, yeah, do the same thing. Anyhow, so after Ryan's fifth birthday, things take a dark turn. He starts having these bizarre nightmares and they always seem to be about the stress of being a Hollywood bigwig. Ryan literally wakes up yelling that his heart exploded in Hollywood. It's an unusual nightmare for a five year old, for sure. And Cindy, his mom, doesn't know what to make of it until one night when she's putting her son to bed and Ryan says, mama, I think I used to be someone else. But he doesn't stop there. Ryan goes on to describe this other person who he may have been in detail. He says he used to love Chinese food and a particular brand of orange soda called Tru Aid. Okay. Which is a brand that went out of business back in the 50s, so it's really unlikely Ryan would know anything about that. He also says he used to dream of being a movie star back in the 1930s. He says that he learned to tap dance and he got a few small roles that launched his career. And before he knew it, he was meeting famous stars and going to fabulous Hollywood parties. This is coming from a five year old, you guys. But eventually he gave up on his dream of stardom to become a talent agent. He worked for a company that encouraged actors and actresses to change their names so they'd be flashier and more memorable. And guess what? He was really successful. And eventually, he says, he bought a huge house. Ryan can't remember the full address, but he thinks his street Name had the word rock in it. But Ryan says he didn't spend a ton of time in this house because he loved to travel. He visited Paris on multiple occasions and saw the Eiffel Tower. He also spent a lot of time in other parts of Europe. Unfortunately, he says his money and flashy lifestyle couldn't buy everlasting love. Ryan says that he had multiple divorces and was married a total of five times. He also adopted three sons and had one biological daughter. I mean, the list goes on and on. But the point is, Ryan seems to know a ton of details about his alleged past life as a Hollywood actor and agent. But there's just one thing that he can't seem to remember. His old name.

[Rasha Pecorero]

Now, at first, Cindy figures that Ryan just has a very active imagination. I mean, we all know how 5 year olds can be. Except it's pretty unusual for a five year old to tell a story that's not just so freaking detailed, but that also has such specific details. I mean, what kid that age thinks about Hollywood agents, multiple wives, and an out of circulation orange soda? It's bizarre. But Ryan is very intense and very sincere when he tells this story. And shortly after this conversation, his demeanor also changes. He starts acting like a grown man from the 1950s. He tells his mom he wants to dress in a suit and tie every day. And remember how we mentioned that he used to like Chinese food? Well, his parents decide to take him to a local Chinese restaurant. And he's never used chopsticks before in his life. No one's taught him how to hold them. But the moment he sits down at that table, he picks up a pair and eats with them like he's been doing this for years. Eventually, Cindy starts thinking this can't all be make believe. She's not sure if Ryan really is remembering his past life, but at least he seems to believe he is. And with a whole heck of a lot of detail. And that's when she starts thinking. Cindy doesn't necessarily believe in reincarnation, but she has seen movies and TV shows about past lives. Presumably she can recognize the similarity between Ryan's story and the stories that she's watched on tv. So she goes online to read even more about it, and she finds a lot of research that says it's good to encourage these kind of memories. You know, trying to repress or ignore them can be incredibly stressful. So Cindy really starts embracing Ryan's love of old Hollywood and tries to see what else he can recall.

[Yvette Gentile]

Well, one day, Cindy goes to the library and checks out a book on the golden era of filmmaking, and when she sits down with Ryan to read it, he starts pointing out certain photos. He sees one picture of a female movie star and he says that he's met her before. And also once he says he tried to approach her at an event and her bodyguard punched him in the face before he could get too close. Ryan thinks the actress's name is Mary or something like that, but Cindy absolutely recognizes her. Guess who it is? Marilyn Monroe. Then he gets to a page full of behind the scenes photos from a 1932 movie called Night After Night. Ryan points at one picture and says, mummy. That's George. We did a picture together. Then he puts his finger on an image of another man and says, and that's me.

[Rasha Pecorero]

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[Yvette Gentile]

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[Rasha Pecorero]

His name is Jim Tucker. He's a researcher with the University of Virginia, and his specialty is children who remember past lives. In other words, he sounds like the person to get to the bottom of whatever is going on with Ryan. So right away, Cindy writes Jim a letter. In it, she describes what's going on and lists all of those claims that Ryan has been making about his past life. About living on a street with rock in the name, being married five times, all of it. And when Jim reads it, he's incredibly intrigued, especially once he realizes that Ryan might have formerly lived as a Hollywood professional. Because Jim is in the middle of filming a movie of his own, a documentary on reincarnation. And the crew has all kinds of connections in Hollywood. So he asks them if they can talk to any film historians or archivists who might be able to identify that man from the photograph that Ryan says that he is. And it gets them somewhere. A Hollywood archivist says they've identified Brian. Both of the men in the photo, the one who Ryan called George, is an actor who appeared in dozens of movies between the 30s and the 50s. He was a leading man whose most memorable roles were playing gangsters. His name is George Raft. As for the other man, the extra who Ryan thinks is his past self, well, the archivist forwards his information to Jim. Then Jim compares those files with the claims Ryan has been making. And a lot of Ryan's predictions are correct. For example, Ryan says he used to have a mother with dark colored curly hair. And he did. He says he bought his daughter a dog as a birthday present when she turned 6. And again, that's correct. He even says he used to play piano and owned one. Right again. I mean, the list goes on and on. In total, 55 of Ryan's claims are spot on.

[Yvette Gentile]

Okay, but here's the thing. Jim still doesn't know if Ryan has been telling the truth or if he's just, I don't know, a very lucky guesser. So he sets up a test, and he arranges to meet Ryan in person. And by the time they work out the travel details, ryan is now 6 years old. And when they see each other, Jim shows him a bunch of old photos of Hollywood stars and crew members, as well as pictures of four different women. He asks if any of them look familiar. And Ryan points at one of them and he says he knows her, which is correct. The man in question was married to that woman and never met the other three. Then Jim shows Ryan four photos of different men. He asks if he recognizes any of them. Once again, Ryan picks the correct photo. It's a senator who is friends with the Hollywood agent. And finally, Jim shows Ryan four more men and asks something like, which of these was you in the past life? Once more, Ryan picks the right man. So now Jim is very confident. Ryan used to be a talent agent by the name of Marty Martin.

[Rasha Pecorero]

While Marty was his stage name, he was a performer turned Hollywood agent. He got his start tap dancing on Broadway before moving to the west coast to chase his silver screen dreams. Exactly like Ryan said. And here's another guess that Ryan got right. As an agent, Marty encouraged his clients to change their names. He wanted them to have short, memorable stage names that were easy to pronounce and remember. Which, of course, must have been a good strategy at the time, because after he made it big as a talent agent, Marty bought a big fancy house on a street called Roxbury Drive. Now, remember, Ryan said he thought the word rock was in the street name. Well, that's pretty darn close. Plus, Marty loved to travel, especially to Paris. His sister lived there. So he went back and forth from LA to France multiple times. He also toured through Europe on a few different occasions. And he was unlucky in love. He was married four times, not five like Ryan said. But again, his prediction was pretty darn close. And get this, Marty adopted three of his stepsons and had one biological daughter of his own. He even loved True Aid orange soda, just like Ryan said.

[Yvette Gentile]

Marty also had a long, successful career. He did really well for himself, but he wasn't famous per se. In fact, by 2010, he was all but forgotten. There weren't any books about him or documentaries about his life. And if you Googled his name before that year, you wouldn't have gotten any hits. Which means it would have been so impossible for Ryan to study Marty's life and fake these memories. Literally. It took a professional Hollywood historian to figure out who this guy was. So there is no way. There's no way Ryan and his mother would have known all of these details about him. In fact, even the archivist has a hard time confirming certain claims. Like how Ryan says that Marty used to own a green car that nobody else in the family was allowed to drive. The researchers can't find any news articles about his car, so they think maybe, I don't know, maybe they should get Marty's family involved. And they managed to get hold of his now 57 year old daughter. She was only 8 when her father died, so she doesn't remember a ton about him. But she does confirm that her dad drove a green car and he was the only person who was allowed to get behind the wheel. And once she hears about the wild claims that Ryan is making, she actually agrees to meet him. I don't know if she actually believes her father's spirit is reincarnated in this little boy, but, I mean, come on, she couldn't pass up the opportunity to talk to him. Either way, I would absolutely want to meet someone if they felt like they were our mother reincarnated. I mean, of course we have to go through things.

[Rasha Pecorero]

You know, we'd have to vet them thoroughly.

[Yvette Gentile]

Yeah.

[Rasha Pecorero]

Because there's a lot you can find online about Fauna Hodel. But we would have to hear validating claims, things that only you or I would know. Yvette, right?

[Yvette Gentile]

Yeah. Something that is not out in the world.

[Rasha Pecorero]

So if you or your child is reincarnated as Fauna Hodel, reach out to Yvette and Rasha. We're very easy to find on all social media channels [e-mail] Anyway, let's get back to the story. When Ryan flies to Los Angeles and sees Marty's daughter face to face for the first time, he almost seems saddened by the fact that he saw her, saying that she's changed so much and she's not the same little girl that he remembers now. Remember Ryan's 6 years old and he's saying this. Afterward, he tells his family that he'd prefer not to see the daughter again. It's probably for the best that they each go on and live their separate lives. But what's interesting is it almost seems like Ryan has a sense of closure after this meeting. Like he's figured out who he used to be in his past life, he's finally solved the mystery, and now it's time for him to move on with his new existence. He even tells his parents that he has a sense of peace now and he wants to focus on living as Ryan and not as Marty. So when Ryan gets home, he throws out all of his books and posters about old Hollywood movies. He stops dressing in little suits and ties, and instead he wears more kid appropriate outfits. He also finds new hobbies and stops talking about movies all of the time. By the time he's a teenager, Ryan admits he doesn't even remember his life as Marty anymore. It's like all of those memories FL faded not long after he got back from la.

[Yvette Gentile]

I just have to say I'm glad he was able to move on and have a fairly normal life, because there are a lot of cases like his. And Jim Tucker, the researcher who helped Marty, says that it can be stressful to remember a past life. And according to him, children can feel deeply divided between their current identities and their past ones. They love both of their families and they don't know who they should stay with or feel loyal to. I mean, they might fear that if they choose one set of parents and siblings, they're, you know, betraying both of them.

[Rasha Pecorero]

I can see how that would be confusing for any child.

[Yvette Gentile]

Yeah, that's a. That's a tough one. I mean, and some of them also remember the way that they died, which would be extremely traumatic even for an adult. For example, one of Jim's patients was a little boy who he went to his mother one day and he said he remembered dying on the battlefield in the Vietnam War. And he also recalled his name and age. Later, Jim researched soldiers who had died in Vietnam, and sure enough, he found an entry that exactly matched the unusual name and age the boy had given him. On top of that, a lot of Jim's patients have very intense phobias of whatever supposedly killed them in their past lives. Like how Jim once treated a little girl who was terrified of water. She refused to go swimming or get anywhere near a lake or pool. And each time her mother tried to make her take a bath, she screamed and kicked bloody murder until she got out. Eventually, the girl explained that she had memories of a past life where a girl from another village drowned. But it seems no one has really studied this in a lab setting, at least from what I can tell. But from a scientific perspective, it's almost a missed opportunity. If Ryan's memories continued about Marty, it's possible there's ways to study them and maybe just get more information about death and the afterlife because of it.

[Rasha Pecorero]

The good news is we don't have to rely on Ryan alone. There are a ton of stories of other children just like him who claim they remember events from a past life. Take this account from the late 1950s where a young girl named Barbro Carlin is growing up in Sweden. Around the time she turns 2 years old, Barbro starts expressing these incredibly strange feelings. Every now and then she'd ask someone where her parents were. If anyone pointed her toward her mother and father, Barbro argued with them. She didn't want to see those parents. She wanted to talk to her real ones. But no one knew what she meant by that. Other times Barbro told people that her name wasn't actually Barbro, she says that she preferred to go by Ann. And she insisted this wasn't just a nickname. She really believed she was someone else who was supposed to be living a different life with a different family. Eventually, of course, her parents started to worry. They took her to see a mental health professional, but the doctor said she wasn't delusional or hallucinating at all. So after that, her parents just sort of assumed that Barbro had a very active imagination. They tried not to worry too much about it. And then one day, while she was still very young, Barbara went up to her parents and made a shocking statement. She said, my name is Anne Frank. This summer, the sun isn't the only thing that can burn you. Say goodbye to your overpriced wireless plan's jaw dropping monthly bills and unexpected overages. Mint Mobile is here to rescue you. And for a limited time, Mint mobile is offering three months of unlimited premium wireless service for 15 bucks a month. All plans come with high speed data and unlimited talk and text delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. This year, skip breaking a sweat and breaking the bank. Get this new customer offer and your three month unlimited wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month at Mint Mobile. MintMobile.com supernatural that's MintMobile.com supernatural upfront payment of $45 required, equivalent to $15 a month limited time. New customer offer for first three months only. Speeds may slow above 35 gigabytes on unlimited plan taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details.

[Unknown]

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[Rasha Pecorero]

In 1956, two year old Barbro Carlin from Sweden goes to her parents and tells them that her name is Anne Frank. And that statement means nothing to them at the time because the Diary of Anne Frank was first published in 1947 in Dutch and by 1956 it hasn't made a splash in the English or the Swedish speaking world yet. So Barbro's parents probably think she's making up some fake name. They play along with her because it seems like a harmless make believe game.

[Yvette Gentile]

Fast forward to early 1960s and Barbro is an elementary school student. One day her teacher announces that the class is going to learn about the Holocaust. And her first lesson is all about someone whose diary was recently published in English. Anne Frank. When Barbro reads Anne's diary, it's like she could have written it herself. The names of Ann's siblings and friends feel so familiar to her. Plus she and Anne have all of the same hobbies, likes, dislikes, and when Barbro sees a picture of Anne, she says it's like looking in a mirror. The resemblance between them is actually quite eerie. If you guys haven't googled this, you should, because they look, I mean, so much alike. Barbro tells her parents her theory that she's Anne Frank reincarnated in a new body, and they don't buy it. They still think she's just being imaginative, but they also don't see any harm in letting her learn more about history. So they actually encourage her to keep researching Anne and to study everything that she can about her life. Then something life changing happens.

[Rasha Pecorero]

When Barbro is 10 years old, the family takes a vacation to Amsterdam and they end up visiting the house where Anne Frank lived before she was captured by the Nazis. None of them have ever been to the city before and they don't know their way around. But somehow Barbro does. She navigates the streets with ease, never stopping to look at a map or even ask for directions. She also leads them directly to the house, which has since been turned into a museum. Once they're inside, Barbro says she wants to see her room. And she walks right into a particular bedroom that, as it turns out, used to be Anne's. Except once she's in there, Barbro ends up getting really upset. She says the room doesn't look right, that it's changed somehow. She says she used to collect magazines and tear out pictures of all her favorite celebrities. Then she hung them up on the walls in her room. But now the walls are bare and her pictures are gone. Just as Barbro finishes saying this, a tour guide walks in. And that's when the tour guide says, yes, there used to be pictures of celebrities on the wall. They were getting worn out and damaged because so many visitors kept touching them. So the staff took them down and sent them off to be repaired and restored. By this point, Barbro's family members also think she might be Anne Frank reincarnated. In fact, she later has an opportunity to meet one of Ann's cousins who survived the Holocaust. As soon as they see one another face to face, the cousin says that he feels a sense of connection to her, almost like they're truly family.

[Yvette Gentile]

I have to say, when I was doing some research on this, I saw an interview with her cousin, and he said exactly that. Like, instantly, he felt this knowing deep connection to her was wild. Thanks to stories like Barbaro's, the evidence for reincarnation feels more and more apparent. Even researchers are on board because over the decades, a lot of scientists have actually studied it. And one of them is Jim Tucker, who helped Ryan identify Marty as his past self. Another was Jim's mentor, Dr. Ian Stevenson. And Dr. Stevenson was one of the first to scientifically study the phenomenon of reincarnation. Beginning in 1961, he sought out children who seemed to remember things they should have never known. And then he questioned them, fact checked their answers, and tried to identify who they might have been in a previous life. A lot of his subjects were like Ryan in that the person they remembered wasn't famous and didn't have much of a public presence. So it was very unlikely that Stevenson's subjects could have memorized a bunch of facts about these people who were long since deceased. The really interesting thing is that Dr. Stevenson didn't actually believe in reincarnation, or at least he didn't when he began his research. He actually set out to disprove people who claim to remember their past lives. In fact, he regularly looked for evidence that these children had been coached or they were just lucky guessers, among other grounded possibilities. But the harder he tried to find a logical explanation, the clearer it became. Something strange was going on. And when he set up controlled experiments that were designed to prevent parents from coaching the kids, they still got the facts right. Over time, he made other interesting discoveries as well, like how 9% of his patients had skills they'd never learned before. And earlier, when we talked about how Ryan knew how to use chopsticks, I mean, we all know that's difficult. It's difficult to learn how to use chopsticks when you're an adult, let alone 5 years old, and you already know how to use them. We have all witnessed where you see a young child, or even an adult who has no training and they know exactly how to play a musical instrument or perform, I don't know, some type of complicated task. Right. That they've never studied before. But did they know this in a previous life? How do they learn it? This is the question. Right?

[Rasha Pecorero]

Right.

[Yvette Gentile]

And sometimes they can recall things that happened between incarnations, like even details about their own funerals.

[Rasha Pecorero]

This is so incredibly morbid and so fascinating at the same time. They can't offer many details on what it's like, but they say that while they're there, they get to hang out with other loved ones who have also passed away. It's almost like they're in heaven or some other afterlife. And here's where it gets really wild. Some have said that we each get a say in when we're reborn and who we get to be in the next life. Jim Tucker had one patient who claimed that while he was in the afterlife, he saw a woman who was trying to get pregnant. And he just knew in that moment that he wanted her to be his mother. About nine months later, she gave birth to, well, him.

[Yvette Gentile]

I found this really wild. Some are even born with birthmarks in the same part of their body that they got fatally injured before. Like take, for instance, one of Ian Stevenson's patients. She was born with a scar shaped birthmark that ran all around the top of her head, Almost like someone had cut her skull open at some point. Except she never had brain surgery. However, she had memories of a past life where she had had brain surgery.

[Rasha Pecorero]

That's crazy. But there are limits to what children can and can't remember. Most report their first past life recollections around the age of two or three, which you know, that makes sense. That's when a lot of kids learn to talk in full sentences for the first time. So they wouldn't be able to speak about their memories before then, even if they had them. Except by the time they're six or seven years old, those memories start to fade. Which, again, is just like Ryan's story. Remember, he started to feel distant from Marty after his trip to Los Angeles when he was six years old. On top of that, 70% of children say they remember dying suddenly or violently, like in a car accident, a war, or by murder or suicide. It's enough that some people wonder if it's the trauma of a terrible death that can cause the memories to leak into the next life. I mean, that makes sense to me. The idea is that under ideal circumstances, say if you die of old age in bed surrounded by your loving family, your soul is at peace. It can go through a process where you forget your past life and start over in a new body. But if you don't have a chance to let go of your previous existence, those memories, those fears, and those personality traits will transfer into your next existence.

[Yvette Gentile]

That's some deep stuff right there.

[Rasha Pecorero]

Yeah.

[Yvette Gentile]

As for why reincarnation happens, well, Jim seems to think it has something to do with that little word called fate. There are certain things we're all meant to achieve in our lives. Certain people we're supposed to love, certain goals that we're supposed to accomplish, and I mean so on, right? But if we die before we can do any of those things, maybe we get reincarnated and, I don't know, have another shot at fulfilling our destinies. Or maybe that's why so many reincarnated people have sudden or violent deaths in their past lives, because they literally passed away before their time, before they even had a chance to take care of the things that they needed to do. And, I don't know, maybe that's why they're back. Now, take Marty Martin, for instance. Apparently, he died with a lot of regret. He felt like he wasted his life chasing money and possessions, and he hadn't shown enough love to his family and friends. And then all of a sudden, he had a brain hemorrhage at the young age of 61, meaning he never got to make things right. So when Ryan began recalling Marty's memories, he knew he had a second chance to be less materialistic and focus on the things that were really important. And Jim Tucker says he has a lot of patients just like Ryan, children who wanted to fix the mistakes of their past lives.

[Rasha Pecorero]

Well, he also identified one other quality that a lot of them had in common. And it could really change how we understand reincarnation. A little over a quarter of his subjects seemed to have extra sensory perception, or esp. Ryan was one of them. Apparently, he could see the future. One time, he told his mother that they had to buy his dad a watch for Father's Day. And Cindy didn't understand why he was so insistent. I mean, his dad already had a watch that he liked. Then the night before Father's Day, the watch broke. Frankly, predictions like these could be lucky guesses or a coincidence for sure. But even if that's true, there's still so much to be learned about this possibility of reincarnation.

[Yvette Gentile]

In the meantime, there is something comforting about the idea that death doesn't have to be the end. It is not the final closure. Right? If you miss a loved one who's passed along, it's okay, because you might get to see them again in this life. If you die with a regret about the things you never got to do, maybe that's okay too. You might get another chance, even after you leave this body. And if you feel discouraged that the world isn't what you want it to be, you know what? Maybe that is all right too. Because we all may have infinite chances to make things better for the rest of eternity. And if you ever feel discouraged that the world isn't what you want it to be, maybe that's all right too. Because we all may have infinite chances to make things better for the rest of eternity. After all, if change is eternal, then so is hope. A grander existence is even more possible than we know. And while you might not see it yet, you're already a part of it. Foreign.

[Rasha Pecorero]

This is so supernatural. An Audio Chuck original produced by Crime House. You can connect with us on Instagram @sosupernaturalpod and visit our website at sosupernaturalpodcast.com Join Yvette and me next Friday for an all new episode. I think Chuck would approve.

[Yvette Gentile]

Joining us on this episode are real Spectrum customers, Monique and Greg. We hear your family is a big fan of spectrum.

[Unknown]

Family of four. We have about 18 devices. Last time I counted, two teams require.

[Rasha Pecorero]

A lot of speed.

[Unknown]

Everything they do is online. There's gaming, there's streaming. Spectrum is perfect for us. I mean, it just seamlessly connects all our devices with lightning speed.

[Yvette Gentile]

Sounds like Spectrum is really committed to keeping you connected.

[Unknown]

It's amazing.

Did you know that parents rank financial literacy as the number one most difficult life skill?

[Rasha Pecorero]

To teach.

[Unknown]

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