So Supernatural – THE UNKNOWN: The Third Man Factor

Podcast: So Supernatural
Hosts: Yvette Gentile & Racha Pecorero
Guest/Commentary: Ashley Flowers (intro), John Geiger (case study)
Date: September 12, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode explores the mysterious phenomenon known as "The Third Man Factor": the experience reported by people in life-or-death situations of being aided or accompanied by an unseen presence they interpret as a guardian angel, spirit, or psychological coping mechanism. Through true accounts from explorers, astronauts, accident survivors, and the hosts' own experiences, Yvette and Racha ponder whether these experiences are spiritual, supernatural, or purely psychological.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

What Is the Third Man Factor? (01:47–03:43)

• Ashley Flowers introduces the concept: people in extreme situations reporting the presence of a "third man"—a guiding force, sometimes felt, sometimes heard or even seen.
  • “The people who report it the most are those in high stakes situations. They say that when all hope is lost, another voice or person appeared to them and guided them to safety. The stories are nothing short of a miracle.” (01:47)
• The hosts clarify it's not always a religious experience; sometimes it's interpreted as faith in the universe, fate, or even manifestation for psychological support.

The Shackleton Expedition: Origins of the Phenomenon (05:29–14:38)

• Ernest Shackleton’s 1914 Antarctic ordeal is recounted in detail:
  • The expedition gets stranded, and three members—including Shackleton—make a perilous journey across unmapped mountains to save their crew.
  • All three independently report the sense of an additional, invisible companion during their survival march:
    • Yvette: “He can't shake that feeling that there's some kind of invisible presence here…almost like a spiritual guide.” (13:00)
    • Later, Frank Worsley admits: “Boss, I had a curious feeling on the march that there was another person with us.” (14:38)
  • T.S. Eliot later immortalizes the phenomenon in his epic poem The Waste Land, referring to "the third who walks always beside you" (18:19), thus naming the phenomenon.

Recurring Reports and Expansive Cases (19:06–22:55)

• John Geiger, historian and author, revisits the Shackleton story and correlates it with his own childhood experience of a "third man" while in danger from a rattlesnake.
  • Experiences are often accompanied by a profound sense of calm and guidance.
• The phenomenon is global, including stories from explorers, soldiers, climbers, astronauts, and regular people.
• Racha’s personal story: narrowly avoiding a serious fall at the Lincoln Memorial after feeling an unseen hand save her, which she attributes to her late mother:
  • “I tripped and I was about to fall all the way down the stairs, but I physically felt a hand pull onto my back and I ended up being physically okay.” (21:34)

Classic Cases & New Examples (23:13–30:48)

• Everest Climber Frank Smythe (1933):

  • Near the summit, Smythe reports the strong compulsion to share his rations with a companion—only to recall he was alone. This unseen presence gave him the strength to return safely.

• Astronaut Jerry Linenger (1997):

  • During a tense and potentially fatal mission aboard the Russian Mir space station, Linenger is visited by the presence of his deceased father on the treadmill:
    • “He has an intense gut feeling that tells him the Newcomer is his father…He says, 'I’m proud of you…You made it. Way to go.' And as soon as his dad stops talking, Jerry feels like a literal weight is lifted off his shoulders.” (27:44)

The Third Man in Traumatic Modern History: 9/11 (33:51–38:21)

• Ron DeFrancesco, a World Trade Center survivor, recounts being guided by a male voice and presence through fire and debris to safety—possibly as the last person to leave the South Tower alive:
  • “Ron hears a male voice talking to him. It says, ‘Get up. Hey, you can do this.’ … He senses someone else lifting him up and holding him.” (36:03)
  • Ron believes this was an angel sent by God, but mental health professionals point to possible psychological coping mechanisms.

Psychological vs. Supernatural Explanations (38:21–44:17)

• The hosts discuss scientific theories: extreme stress, exhaustion, deprivation, or monotonous activity can incite hallucinations or alter perception as a survival mechanism.
  • “The gist is that if your body is shutting down, it's only natural that your perception of reality will start going haywire.” (38:21)
• But they note the limitations of these theories, especially in cases with multiple witnesses (e.g., Shackleton, Harry Stoker in WWI):
  • “If this was all a hallucination, only one person would have noticed it, but they all sensed it at the same time, and they all agreed it disappeared at the exact moment they were no longer in danger.” (43:45)

Spiritual and Cultural Perspectives (44:17–47:32)

• Many third man accounts are interpreted as encounters with guardian angels, supported by common religious beliefs in intermediaries between humans and the divine (Christianity, Judaism, Islam).
• Other theories posit that deceased loved ones can become guides, as with astronaut Linenger and pilot Edith Stearns, who heard the voice of a high school friend warning her away from disaster.

Therapeutic Applications & Conclusions (48:50–49:37)

• Contemporary therapists sometimes use the idea of an imagined supportive presence, inspired by the third man factor, to help trauma survivors.
  • “The idea is that if someone has gone through something horrible, they feel better if they imagine an invisible presence with them keeping them company.” (48:50)
• The hosts personally draw comfort from believing their late mother remains their guardian.
  • Yvette: “When we’re having a hard day… I always envision that mom is like standing right next to us.” (49:34)

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• Ashley Flowers: “It’s happened so many times, there’s even a name for it. It’s called the third man factor.” (02:42)
• Yvette Gentile: “Faith can have its benefits. And to be clear, when I say the word faith, I don’t automatically mean religious faith…I believe that we all have to have faith in ourself or in the universe.” (04:43)
• Racha Pecorero: “Now she’s ours.” (on their mother as a guardian angel) (44:43)
• Racha: “Maybe, just maybe, it’s not important for us to understand how the third man factor works. Just that it seemingly does.” (49:37)

Notable Timestamps

• 01:47 Introduction to the Third Man Factor and guardian angels (Ashley Flowers)
• 05:29–14:38 The full story of Shackleton’s Antarctic ordeal and the original third man experience
• 19:06 Historian John Geiger’s personal “third man” experience and quest for understanding
• 21:34 Racha’s Lincoln Memorial “guardian hand” anecdote
• 26:53 Everest climber Frank Smythe’s account
• 27:44 Astronaut Jerry Linenger’s visitation from his late father
• 33:51–38:21 Ron DeFrancesco’s survival of 9/11 aided by an unseen presence
• 38:21–44:17 Discussion of scientific/psychological vs. spiritual interpretations
• 44:17–48:50 Guardian angels and supernatural interpretations, further case examples
• 48:50–49:37 Therapeutic use of the idea and the hosts’ personal comfort

Conclusion

The Third Man Factor remains an enduring mystery bridging the realms of psychology, spirituality, and the supernatural. Whether a well-documented survival response, a guardian angel, or a comforting cultural narrative, its stories offer hope and awe. For Yvette, Racha, and many survivors, the message is one of comfort—when facing the impossible, we might not be as alone as we think.