Episode Summary: Ep. 237: A Tech Policy Bonanza! The FCC, FTC, AI Regulations, and More
Release Date: March 12, 2025
Host: Nico Perino
Guests: Ari Cohn (FIRE's Lead Counsel for Tech Policy), Adam Thier (Senior Fellow for Technology and Innovation at the R Street Institute), Jennifer Huddleston (Senior Fellow in Technology Policy at the Cato Institute)
1. Section 230 and the FCC's Overreach
The episode delves deeply into Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, examining its foundational role in shaping the internet by protecting online platforms from liability for user-generated content.
Adam Thier provides a clear definition of Section 230:
“Section 230 is a 1996 law responsible for the Internet unfolding and developing the way that it did. It has two primary provisions...”
(02:46)
He further explains the nuances between C1 and C2 provisions, highlighting how C2A offers additional protection for platforms taking voluntary actions to remove objectionable content.
Ari Cohn criticizes the FCC's attempts to interpret Section 230, asserting:
“No, and it's not. ... Section 230 was really, in my opinion, sort of the... policy secret sauce that unlocked the digital revolution.”
(07:06)
He emphasizes that the FCC lacks the authority to regulate Section 230 and warns against its misuse as a tool for political vendettas:
“They're just trying to extend it in the digital age with threatening letters... It’s mafiosa politics somewhere.”
(00:00)
2. FCC's Actions Against Google and YouTube TV
The conversation shifts to recent actions by FCC Chairman Brendan Carr, who has sent letters to companies like Google regarding alleged censorship of faith-based programming on YouTube TV.
Jennifer Huddleston highlights the broader implications:
“Section 230 actually enables competition that way... your second hire doesn't have to be a lawyer who’s going to tell you what to do when somebody uses your platform...”
(04:25)
Ari Cohn critiques Carr's approach, comparing it to historical FCC tactics of indirect censorship:
“Threats and intimidation becoming a way to do backdoor censorship... kind of like that’s o mafiosa politics somewhere.”
(25:11)
He underscores the inconsistency within the conservative movement, which previously sought to diminish the FCC's role but now empowers it to regulate more aggressively:
“Why in world are conservatives the one leading the idea of empowering the FCC to do these things?... They want to engage.”
(09:29 - 34:48)
3. FTC's Investigation into Tech Censorship
The episode explores the Federal Trade Commission's (FTC) recent initiatives to investigate alleged tech censorship, spearheaded by Chair Andrew Ferguson.
Adam Thier reacts wryly to the FTC's open call for submissions:
“Consumer protection law is no talisman against the First Amendment.”
(39:36)
He humorously predicts the nature of submissions:
“My absolute favorite thing... number one, probably the most censored people on social media are, say, adult film actors... they're getting porn.”
(39:57)
Jennifer Huddleston argues that the FTC's actions could have chilling effects on free speech:
“If you think good faith hasn't been properly interpreted and they are somehow willing to allow the government to be the arbiter of good faith... It's very, very hard to get back.”
(18:56)
She emphasizes the danger of government overreach in defining and policing content:
“Once you give the government the power over speech, it is very, very hard to get back.”
(18:56)
4. Content Moderation Challenges
The discussion addresses the complexities of content moderation on platforms, questioning the consistency and fairness of policy enforcement.
Adam Thier highlights the subjective nature of "good faith" in moderation:
“The Definition of good faith itself requires violating the First Amendment.”
(15:22)
Jennifer Huddleston uses a lighthearted example to illustrate the difficulties:
“Imagine a subreddit that only allows pictures of cats standing up. If we are moderating in good faith, does a cat stand up on two legs or four?”
(44:38)
This analogy underscores the arbitrary standards that can arise when defining and enforcing moderation policies.
5. AI Regulatory Landscape
The episode transitions to the burgeoning field of artificial intelligence (AI) regulation, with Adam Thier expressing concern over the rapid influx of AI-related legislation.
“AI regulatory activity is completely out of control in the United States. We have already seen over 700 bills introduced less than two months into 2025... That's an unprecedented level of interest.”
(48:44)
Ari Cohn warns against fear-based policies, advocating for freedom-oriented approaches similar to those that propelled the internet's growth:
“Fear-based policies leading the way as opposed to the Internet where we led with freedom based policies.”
(51:03)
He criticizes the European regulatory model for stifling innovation and contrasts it with the U.S. model that champions permissionless innovation.
6. Historical Context and Future Implications
Nico Perino challenges Ari Cohn on the historical application of fear versus freedom in regulation, referencing the Communications Decency Act (CDA) and its swift passage:
“The CDA... was actually a good thing because the law was so poorly written... it led to a comprehensive strike down on First Amendment grounds.”
(52:27)
Adam Thier echoes concerns about a patchwork of state laws complicating nationwide operations:
“I worry about 50 states passing 50 different laws making it literally impossible to operate in the United States.”
(52:44)
Jennifer Huddleston remains optimistic about establishing principled frameworks:
“We have the opportunity to get it right and have that 96-esque moment... reaffirm our belief in innovation and the free market.”
(54:34)
7. Conclusion and Final Remarks
The episode wraps up with reflections on the importance of maintaining free speech principles in the face of increasing regulatory pressures from both the FCC and FTC.
Ari Cohn emphasizes the global implications of U.S. regulatory actions:
“We want to make sure our systems, our values and our technologies... lead some.”
(63:15)
Nico Perino hints at upcoming topics beyond tech policy, teasing future episodes that will explore other national issues.
“On the next podcast, listeners, I promise we'll get out of the tech space and hopefully look at some of the other news that's breaking across the country.”
(64:02)
Notable Quotes:
- Ari Cohn (00:00): “Threats and intimidation becoming a way to do backdoor censorship... kind of like that’s o mafiosa politics somewhere.”
- Jennifer Huddleston (04:25): “Section 230 actually enables competition that way...”
- Adam Thier (15:22): “The Definition of good faith itself requires violating the First Amendment.”
- Adam Thier (48:44): “AI regulatory activity is completely out of control... unprecedented level of interest.”
- Ari Cohn (63:15): “We want to make sure our systems, our values and our technologies...”
This episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast offers a comprehensive exploration of current tech policy challenges, particularly focusing on the overreach of regulatory bodies like the FCC and FTC, the pivotal role of Section 230, and the rapidly evolving landscape of AI regulation. Through insightful discussions and critical analyses, Nico Perino and his distinguished guests underscore the delicate balance between regulation and free expression in the digital age.