So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast

Ep. 259: FIRE answers your questions
Date: December 10, 2025
Host: Nico Perrino
Guests: Greg Lukianoff (President and CEO), Will Creeley (Legal Director), Alicia Glennon (COO)

Episode Overview

This Q&A-style episode, originally recorded as FIRE’s public monthly webinar, brings together the organization’s leadership to tackle a wide range of listener-submitted questions related to free speech, the First Amendment, ongoing legal cases, campus speech controversies, the challenges of promoting free expression, and FIRE’s work as a nonpartisan civil liberties group. The tone is candid, passionate, and at times humorous as the team discusses both the philosophical and practical sides of defending free speech in an increasingly polarized world.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The First Amendment's Press Clause: Who’s “the Press”?

[02:01 – 05:49]

Question: Does the freedom of the press apply only to organizations or also individuals (e.g., “citizen journalists”)?
Greg Lukianoff: The press clause's original understanding was likely focused on the technology—the physical printing press—not an institutional conception (“they really were thinking about the physical machine, the technology of the press” – Greg, 02:35).
The line between “press” and ordinary citizens has blurred; citizen journalists are protected by the Speech Clause.
Will Creeley: First Amendment rights do not depend on credentials. FIRE has defended both right-wing and left-wing journalists denied credentials based on viewpoint (refers to Gateway Pundit case, Maricopa County, post-2020 election).

Academic Freedom, Grading Disputes & Religious Citation

[05:49 – 08:36]

Issue: Student claims an infringement of rights after failing an assignment for citing only Scripture.
Will: FIRE generally doesn’t get involved in grading disputes unless there’s viewpoint discrimination. Academic freedom theory holds pedagogy should be left to departments, but this isn’t always ideal.
Greg: After decades, it’s clear departmental autonomy isn’t always working out, but he doesn't see an easy solution.

Beyond Donations: How to Support FIRE

[08:58 – 12:26]

Alicia Glennon: “We need to find more of our people. We need our message spread… Attend our events. There’s a lot of things we can do besides financial support, because we’re trying to build a movement here.” (08:58)
Share FIRE’s work, volunteer, and foster principled, nonpartisan support for free speech—don’t just defend your own side.

The Challenges of Nonpartisanship & “The Lonely Life”

[12:26 – 15:36]

Greg and Alicia reflect on the difficulty of being nonpartisan in today’s climate and share stories about supporters who celebrate FIRE’s defense of speech even when they disagree with the speaker.
Discussion about Greg’s recent feature on NYT's “The Daily” (“The Lonely Life of a Free Speech Advocate”), and its impact in broadening awareness of FIRE.

Campus Free Speech Rankings & Case Studies

[16:43 – 32:54]

Question about Iowa State: How do you interpret improved campus speech rankings alongside high-profile punitive incidents?
- Greg: Rankings reflect student experiences over time, but single incidents (e.g., post-Charlie Kirk’s murder) may not be included immediately.
- Staff do not have identical speech rights as students/faculty.
- “What you’re talking about is a massive national backlash that we have been fighting non stop.” (Greg, 18:19)
Ann Seltzer Case: (Trump vs. Iowa pollster) and its implications for treating speech like consumer fraud.
- Will: Recent court victories reaffirm polling errors aren’t consumer fraud and are protected as free speech (“There is no free pass around the First Amendment” – Will quoting the court, 21:39).
Indiana University Free Speech Protest Tactics: FIRE uses everything from billboards to airplane banners to pressure for improved policies, in lieu of or alongside litigation.

Recent Trends in Court Rulings on Free Speech

[33:46 – 36:57]

Will: Some pessimism as foundational decisions are being reconsidered; the U.S. still has robust protections, but vigilance is needed.
The Supreme Court has given mixed verdicts: positive on jawboning/government social media pressure, less so on issues like age verification online.

Cancel Culture, Private Employment, and Speech

[37:36 – 39:19]

Greg: The blurry line between cultural trends (“cancel culture”) and legal standards. Too much power for employers to fire based on speech undermines national free speech norms.

Campus Speech, Hostile Environment, and Anti-Israel/Anti-Semitic Speech

[39:19 – 45:05]

Will: Title VI prohibits severe, pervasive, objectively offensive harassment—not mere advocacy or protest speech.
“If the student is just…objecting to Israel…entirely protected expression.” (Will, 41:00)
Speech considered “hate speech” is protected in the US; many (including public officials) wrongly believe otherwise.
Incitement: “Globalize the Intifada” or “kill Zionists” is protected unless it crosses the “imminent lawless action” threshold (Brandenburg v. Ohio standard).
Greg: The idea that “hate speech” is unprotected is “probably the most successful PR campaign for censorship in my lifetime.” (Greg, 42:47)

Misinformation, Disinformation, and the First Amendment

[45:05 – 47:41]

Nico/Will: No distinction between “misinformation” and protected speech unless it falls into a specifically unprotected category (fraud, libel, direct incitement).
Greg: “The only cure for misinformation, disinformation, are authorities not coerced by power that people can respect and trust… The cure…is structured friction.” (Greg, 46:45)
Calls for government “truth ministries” are antithetical to the First Amendment tradition.

Supporting Free Speech Alumni Groups; Volunteering

[48:20 – 48:55]

FIRE helps start and support alumni groups advocating for academic freedom; individualized volunteer opportunities exist—email Alicia.

AI, Copyright, and Speech

[48:55 – 51:48]

Nico: AI training on publicly available data is akin to human research; should be treated similarly under copyright law (allowing inspiration and learning, respecting fair use).
Greg: As a former IP lawyer, warns that IP law can be cynically used for censorship (“…can be a very dangerous weapon and misused to go after core political speech”).

Hazelwood v. Kuhlmeier and Student Press Rights

[51:51 – 53:22]

Will: Hazelwood allows high schools broad censorship powers over student media; dangerous precedent when “bleeding” into colleges.
FIRE supports New Voices Act, reversing Hazelwood at the state level.

Staying Hopeful Amid Hypocrisy and Division

[53:30 – 55:32]

Alicia: Staying active, engaging with like-minded people, and working on the cause itself helps maintain hope despite widespread division and “hypocrisy on all sides.”
“FIRE isn’t a think tank, we’re a do tank.” (Alicia, 53:30)

Global Speech Platforms and International Law

[55:32 – 58:15]

Greg: Increasing global regulation (e.g., EU’s “lowest common denominator” approach) threatens US free speech via global platforms.
FIRE must advocate for free speech as a “global human rights norm,” not merely an American quirk.

FIRE vs. ACLU: Core Differences

[58:15 – 59:22]

Alicia: Both defend First Amendment rights, but FIRE is laser-focused on free speech, truly nonpartisan, and refrains from “throat-clearing” about disfavored speech.
Nico: ACLU has a 75-year head start and broader issue scope.

Notable Quotes & Moments

Greg Lukianoff [02:35]: “They really were thinking about the physical machine, the technology of the press, much more so than they were thinking about the institution of the press.”
Alicia Glennon [08:58]: “We need to find more of our people… Share our content with your friends, read our arguments, and then use those arguments in conversation… we’re trying to build a movement here.”
Greg Lukianoff [18:19]: “What you’re talking about is a massive national backlash that we have been fighting non stop for a long time. But it’s an ugly and sad sign about the state of free speech nationally.”
Will Creeley [21:39, quoting court]: “There is no free pass around the First Amendment.”
Greg Lukianoff [42:47]: “Hate speech… is probably the most successful PR campaign for censorship in my lifetime.”
Alicia Glennon [53:30]: “Fire isn’t a think tank. We’re a do tank.”
Greg Lukianoff [46:45]: “The only cure for misinformation, disinformation, are authorities not coerced by power that people can respect and trust… The cure…is structured friction.”
Alicia Glennon [58:59]: “We are truly nonpartisan… That is a superpower of ours and makes us better for it.”

Timestamps for Important Segments

[02:01] — The Press Clause and Citizen Journalists
[05:49] — FIRE’s approach to academic grading disputes
[08:58] — How to support FIRE beyond money
[12:26] — The loneliness of being a free speech advocate
[16:43] — Campus free speech rankings & backlash
[20:15] — The Ann Seltzer polling case: free speech vs. consumer fraud
[29:40] — Indiana University free speech campaign
[33:46] — Court trends on free speech law
[37:36] — Employment, cancel culture, and speech
[39:19] — Campus anti-Zionist/anti-Semitic speech and hostile environment law
[45:05] — Free speech vs. misinformation
[48:20] — Alumni groups/volunteering for FIRE
[48:55] — AI, copyright, and speech rights
[51:51] — Hazelwood v. Kuhlmeier and student press
[53:30] — Staying hopeful and persistent
[55:32] — Global speech platforms and foreign censorship laws
[58:15] — FIRE vs. ACLU: similarities & differences

Final Thoughts

The episode is a fast-moving, wide-ranging Q&A that manages to be both intellectually rigorous and highly practical. The FIRE team doesn’t shy away from the difficulties and contradictions that come with defending free speech in a divided America (and an increasingly regulated global internet). Above all, they emphasize principled consistency—even (especially) when it’s lonely or unpopular.

Quote to sum up the episode:

“Free speech can only prevail if it’s applied equally to all speakers in America.” – Nico Perrino [10:11]

So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast

Ep. 259: FIRE answers your questions
Date: December 10, 2025
Host: Nico Perrino
Guests: Greg Lukianoff (President and CEO), Will Creeley (Legal Director), Alicia Glennon (COO)

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The First Amendment's Press Clause: Who’s “the Press”?

[02:01 – 05:49]

Question: Does the freedom of the press apply only to organizations or also individuals (e.g., “citizen journalists”)?
Greg Lukianoff: The press clause's original understanding was likely focused on the technology—the physical printing press—not an institutional conception (“they really were thinking about the physical machine, the technology of the press” – Greg, 02:35).
The line between “press” and ordinary citizens has blurred; citizen journalists are protected by the Speech Clause.
Will Creeley: First Amendment rights do not depend on credentials. FIRE has defended both right-wing and left-wing journalists denied credentials based on viewpoint (refers to Gateway Pundit case, Maricopa County, post-2020 election).

Academic Freedom, Grading Disputes & Religious Citation

[05:49 – 08:36]

Issue: Student claims an infringement of rights after failing an assignment for citing only Scripture.
Will: FIRE generally doesn’t get involved in grading disputes unless there’s viewpoint discrimination. Academic freedom theory holds pedagogy should be left to departments, but this isn’t always ideal.
Greg: After decades, it’s clear departmental autonomy isn’t always working out, but he doesn't see an easy solution.

Beyond Donations: How to Support FIRE

[08:58 – 12:26]

Alicia Glennon: “We need to find more of our people. We need our message spread… Attend our events. There’s a lot of things we can do besides financial support, because we’re trying to build a movement here.” (08:58)
Share FIRE’s work, volunteer, and foster principled, nonpartisan support for free speech—don’t just defend your own side.

The Challenges of Nonpartisanship & “The Lonely Life”

[12:26 – 15:36]

Greg and Alicia reflect on the difficulty of being nonpartisan in today’s climate and share stories about supporters who celebrate FIRE’s defense of speech even when they disagree with the speaker.
Discussion about Greg’s recent feature on NYT's “The Daily” (“The Lonely Life of a Free Speech Advocate”), and its impact in broadening awareness of FIRE.

Campus Free Speech Rankings & Case Studies

[16:43 – 32:54]

Question about Iowa State: How do you interpret improved campus speech rankings alongside high-profile punitive incidents?
- Greg: Rankings reflect student experiences over time, but single incidents (e.g., post-Charlie Kirk’s murder) may not be included immediately.
- Staff do not have identical speech rights as students/faculty.
- “What you’re talking about is a massive national backlash that we have been fighting non stop.” (Greg, 18:19)
Ann Seltzer Case: (Trump vs. Iowa pollster) and its implications for treating speech like consumer fraud.
- Will: Recent court victories reaffirm polling errors aren’t consumer fraud and are protected as free speech (“There is no free pass around the First Amendment” – Will quoting the court, 21:39).
Indiana University Free Speech Protest Tactics: FIRE uses everything from billboards to airplane banners to pressure for improved policies, in lieu of or alongside litigation.

Recent Trends in Court Rulings on Free Speech

[33:46 – 36:57]

Will: Some pessimism as foundational decisions are being reconsidered; the U.S. still has robust protections, but vigilance is needed.
The Supreme Court has given mixed verdicts: positive on jawboning/government social media pressure, less so on issues like age verification online.

Cancel Culture, Private Employment, and Speech

[37:36 – 39:19]

Greg: The blurry line between cultural trends (“cancel culture”) and legal standards. Too much power for employers to fire based on speech undermines national free speech norms.

Campus Speech, Hostile Environment, and Anti-Israel/Anti-Semitic Speech

[39:19 – 45:05]

Will: Title VI prohibits severe, pervasive, objectively offensive harassment—not mere advocacy or protest speech.
“If the student is just…objecting to Israel…entirely protected expression.” (Will, 41:00)
Speech considered “hate speech” is protected in the US; many (including public officials) wrongly believe otherwise.
Incitement: “Globalize the Intifada” or “kill Zionists” is protected unless it crosses the “imminent lawless action” threshold (Brandenburg v. Ohio standard).
Greg: The idea that “hate speech” is unprotected is “probably the most successful PR campaign for censorship in my lifetime.” (Greg, 42:47)

Misinformation, Disinformation, and the First Amendment

[45:05 – 47:41]

Nico/Will: No distinction between “misinformation” and protected speech unless it falls into a specifically unprotected category (fraud, libel, direct incitement).
Greg: “The only cure for misinformation, disinformation, are authorities not coerced by power that people can respect and trust… The cure…is structured friction.” (Greg, 46:45)
Calls for government “truth ministries” are antithetical to the First Amendment tradition.

Supporting Free Speech Alumni Groups; Volunteering

[48:20 – 48:55]

FIRE helps start and support alumni groups advocating for academic freedom; individualized volunteer opportunities exist—email Alicia.

AI, Copyright, and Speech

[48:55 – 51:48]

Nico: AI training on publicly available data is akin to human research; should be treated similarly under copyright law (allowing inspiration and learning, respecting fair use).
Greg: As a former IP lawyer, warns that IP law can be cynically used for censorship (“…can be a very dangerous weapon and misused to go after core political speech”).

Hazelwood v. Kuhlmeier and Student Press Rights

[51:51 – 53:22]

Will: Hazelwood allows high schools broad censorship powers over student media; dangerous precedent when “bleeding” into colleges.
FIRE supports New Voices Act, reversing Hazelwood at the state level.

Staying Hopeful Amid Hypocrisy and Division

[53:30 – 55:32]

Alicia: Staying active, engaging with like-minded people, and working on the cause itself helps maintain hope despite widespread division and “hypocrisy on all sides.”
“FIRE isn’t a think tank, we’re a do tank.” (Alicia, 53:30)

Global Speech Platforms and International Law

[55:32 – 58:15]

Greg: Increasing global regulation (e.g., EU’s “lowest common denominator” approach) threatens US free speech via global platforms.
FIRE must advocate for free speech as a “global human rights norm,” not merely an American quirk.

FIRE vs. ACLU: Core Differences

[58:15 – 59:22]

Alicia: Both defend First Amendment rights, but FIRE is laser-focused on free speech, truly nonpartisan, and refrains from “throat-clearing” about disfavored speech.
Nico: ACLU has a 75-year head start and broader issue scope.

Notable Quotes & Moments

Greg Lukianoff [02:35]: “They really were thinking about the physical machine, the technology of the press, much more so than they were thinking about the institution of the press.”
Alicia Glennon [08:58]: “We need to find more of our people… Share our content with your friends, read our arguments, and then use those arguments in conversation… we’re trying to build a movement here.”
Greg Lukianoff [18:19]: “What you’re talking about is a massive national backlash that we have been fighting non stop for a long time. But it’s an ugly and sad sign about the state of free speech nationally.”
Will Creeley [21:39, quoting court]: “There is no free pass around the First Amendment.”
Greg Lukianoff [42:47]: “Hate speech… is probably the most successful PR campaign for censorship in my lifetime.”
Alicia Glennon [53:30]: “Fire isn’t a think tank. We’re a do tank.”
Greg Lukianoff [46:45]: “The only cure for misinformation, disinformation, are authorities not coerced by power that people can respect and trust… The cure…is structured friction.”
Alicia Glennon [58:59]: “We are truly nonpartisan… That is a superpower of ours and makes us better for it.”

Timestamps for Important Segments

[02:01] — The Press Clause and Citizen Journalists
[05:49] — FIRE’s approach to academic grading disputes
[08:58] — How to support FIRE beyond money
[12:26] — The loneliness of being a free speech advocate
[16:43] — Campus free speech rankings & backlash
[20:15] — The Ann Seltzer polling case: free speech vs. consumer fraud
[29:40] — Indiana University free speech campaign
[33:46] — Court trends on free speech law
[37:36] — Employment, cancel culture, and speech
[39:19] — Campus anti-Zionist/anti-Semitic speech and hostile environment law
[45:05] — Free speech vs. misinformation
[48:20] — Alumni groups/volunteering for FIRE
[48:55] — AI, copyright, and speech rights
[51:51] — Hazelwood v. Kuhlmeier and student press
[53:30] — Staying hopeful and persistent
[55:32] — Global speech platforms and foreign censorship laws
[58:15] — FIRE vs. ACLU: similarities & differences

Final Thoughts

Quote to sum up the episode:

“Free speech can only prevail if it’s applied equally to all speakers in America.” – Nico Perrino [10:11]

Ep. 259: FIRE answers your questions

Powered by Wave AI

Summary

So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The First Amendment's Press Clause: Who’s “the Press”?

Academic Freedom, Grading Disputes & Religious Citation

Beyond Donations: How to Support FIRE

The Challenges of Nonpartisanship & “The Lonely Life”

Campus Free Speech Rankings & Case Studies

Recent Trends in Court Rulings on Free Speech

Cancel Culture, Private Employment, and Speech

Campus Speech, Hostile Environment, and Anti-Israel/Anti-Semitic Speech

Misinformation, Disinformation, and the First Amendment

Supporting Free Speech Alumni Groups; Volunteering

AI, Copyright, and Speech

Hazelwood v. Kuhlmeier and Student Press Rights

Staying Hopeful Amid Hypocrisy and Division

Global Speech Platforms and International Law

FIRE vs. ACLU: Core Differences

Notable Quotes & Moments

Timestamps for Important Segments

Final Thoughts

Summary

So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The First Amendment's Press Clause: Who’s “the Press”?

Academic Freedom, Grading Disputes & Religious Citation

Beyond Donations: How to Support FIRE

The Challenges of Nonpartisanship & “The Lonely Life”

Campus Free Speech Rankings & Case Studies

Recent Trends in Court Rulings on Free Speech

Cancel Culture, Private Employment, and Speech

Campus Speech, Hostile Environment, and Anti-Israel/Anti-Semitic Speech

Misinformation, Disinformation, and the First Amendment

Supporting Free Speech Alumni Groups; Volunteering

AI, Copyright, and Speech

Hazelwood v. Kuhlmeier and Student Press Rights

Staying Hopeful Amid Hypocrisy and Division

Global Speech Platforms and International Law

FIRE vs. ACLU: Core Differences

Notable Quotes & Moments

Timestamps for Important Segments

Final Thoughts