So True with Caleb Hearon

Episode: Ali Macofsky Loves Corporations
Host: Caleb Hearon
Guest: Ali Macofsky
Release Date: September 4, 2025
Duration (CONTENT): 01:04:00

Episode Overview

This episode features comedian Ali Macofsky in a candid, hilarious, and meandering conversation with Caleb Hearon. They cover everything from the ethics of showering, flying, and improv culture to nostalgia for chain restaurants and the (ironic) love of corporations, with detours into childhood, sexuality, group dynamics, and the never-ending cultural debate between quirky brands and sterile minimalism.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. On Hygiene, Judgment, and Hypocrisy

• Showering Discourse: The duo launches into spirited takes on whether people need to shower every day, with Ali asserting, "No one needs to shower every day. You guys work behind a computer. Why are you stinky? Why do you need a shower? What are you doing?" (01:04)
• Judging Others For What We Ourselves Do: Both discuss the double standard of finding things unattractive in others—but excusing themselves (“Most things I do are fine. When other people do them—really bad.” – Caleb, 01:41).

2. Travel Etiquette and Virgo Identity

• Planes & Overhead Bins: A passionate deep-dive into why people rush onto/stand up in airplanes, ultimately agreeing it’s about overhead bin space and physical comfort (02:55–03:10).
• Packing for Flights & Virgo Stereotypes: Ali details her Virgo-esque urge to pull things out of her bag, “Headphones… iPad… a book that I’m not gonna read, just so people know I’m capable of reading.” (03:20–03:32)
• Virgo Season: Ali uses the conversation to repeatedly mention her upcoming birthday (Sept 8), playfully leaning into stereotypical Virgo cleanliness (03:54–04:44).

3. Comedic Philosophizing

• Philosophers & Comedians: Ali: “Maybe I’m like a philosopher in that way.” Caleb: “I do think you’re a philosopher in some way. Well, you know, comedians are the modern [philosophers].” (05:54–06:01)

4. Bodies, Gender, and Anatomy Jokes

• Penis vs. Vagina: An extended riff comparing genital ergonomics. “I just think the penis is so ergonomic... I don’t want to make this a binary thing—” “But there’s two, which is easy.” (07:25–07:39)
• IKEA & Gender: “That’s vagina, by the way.” “What is?” “IKEA furniture.” “Total–you need the manual, and you need an extra person to help out.” (08:00–08:08)

5. Comments, Cancel Culture & Being ‘Mean Gay’ Online

• Online Perception: After a joke about "two genders," Caleb reflects on being called a "mean gay" or a bigot online, noting how jokes can be taken out of context by internet youth (08:21–09:22).

6. Improv Classes and Comedy Community Building

• The Groundlings Experience: Ali shares her journey through improv classes, dropping names (and stereotypes) about class composition: “You look around, you go—Jerry, who’s 80 years old. The lawyer…” (11:22–11:26)
• ‘Cool Girl’ Improv Trap: Ali confesses to initially holding herself apart as a ‘cool standup’ but learns to become friends with other “improv freaks,” eventually forming her own clique (12:30–13:06).
• The Performance ‘Magic’: Ali recounts how improv “does not translate over video… it’s meant for the room.” (17:20–17:33)
• Why Improv Now? After a failed SNL tape, Ali wanted “to challenge myself and learn how to do this. Stand-up is so me, so one-voice, and I wanted to let a little fun into my life.” (19:13–19:29)

7. On Relationships and Intimacy

• Favorite Relationship: Jokingly, Ali names dog-human and customer service-person as ideal for their “distance” and low risk of intimacy (19:36–20:15).
• Intimacy Issues: Both agree they’re more open with strangers or customer service than romantic partners—“I have intimacy issues only in romance. I’ll be so intimate with, like, a stranger on the street.” – Caleb (20:27–20:34)

8. Symbols, Bathrooms, and Cultural Semiotics

• Legal Symbols: The duo fixate on the obscure “section” legal symbol (§), calling it “very rare and sexy” and joking about its mystique to non-paralegals (21:31–23:27).
• Restroom Signs: Extended riff on bathroom signage—“When they have the wheelchair guy, but he’s going fast as fuck… they used to just have the wheelchair person sitting there, but now they have him racing.” (23:42–23:58)
• Gendered & Degendered Signs: Skewered both for being “conservative” or “too far,” e.g., “... then you go into a leftist place, they’ve got three aliens and it’s like, where do I pee?” (24:50–25:20)
• Least Favorite Symbol: “Swastika—gotta be swastika.” – Ali (25:34–25:41)

9. Childhood, Religion, and Camps

• Jewish & Christian Camp: Both compare Jewish sleepaway camp (more fun, less Jesus) and Christian camp (more restrictions, less sexual freedom). “Christian sleepaway camp, God is too involved. They’re so obsessed with Jesus; it infiltrates every element of camp.” – Ali (27:56–28:28)

10. Nostalgia for Third Spaces and Chain Restaurants

• What is a Third Space? Brief, tongue-in-cheek debate over the precise definition, with libraries and cemeteries as contested examples (34:43–35:19).
• Nostalgia for Chains: Ali grew up craving places like Cracker Barrel and Walmart, which didn’t exist in SoCal. Caleb notes the reverse: “Only chain restaurants existed where I grew up.” (37:12–38:20)
• Brand Rebrands & Cultural Melancholy: Both lampoon left and right-wing reactions to bland, stripped-down rebrands (e.g., Cracker Barrel and McDonald's): “Leftists are like, ‘removing color is fascism!’ But there’s actual fascism happening!” (38:46–39:40)

11. Corporations: Irony and Sincerity

• Ali Loves Corporations: The episode’s thesis: “I love corporations. I’m so impressed by teamwork and making something work efficiently, even if it’s through horrible ethics.” (42:25–42:46)
• Walmart, Target, Apple: Discussion about which is most ‘charming’, Ali favoring Walmart for volume and value, but draws the line at oil companies for lacking “Sonic vibes.” (42:56–43:31)
• Susceptibility to Propaganda: Caleb jokingly warns Ali being “too susceptible” to workplace sitcom propaganda. “I’m so susceptible!” – Ali (45:08–45:18)

12. Comedy & Gender: Aging and Perception

• Aging Out of Harassment: Ali, who began standup as a teen, notes, “I feel like I’ve aged out of being creeped on by comics… they’re like, she knows how this works now.” (48:23–48:58)
• ‘Aging Twinks’ & Gay Societal Attention: Caleb connects gay culture’s age/body obsession to feelings of lost desirability: “...the aging twink who’s not desirable anymore is like a cornered rat.” (49:49–50:15)

13. Cruises, Chain Nostalgia, and Modernity

• Cruise Ships as Corporations Ali Likes: Preference for luxury, small-group cruises—“Carnival is too commercial; they’re always giving stuff away. I want a Japanese boutique cruise.” (51:11–52:03)

14. Games, Pooping, and Donuts

• True/False Game: Ali plays a goofy, high-pressure trivia game with increasingly hyperbolic stakes ($50, 60:14), then laments her “loss” with classic comic frustration.
• Poop Edging: A delightful digression into carefully timing one’s poops: “I love poop edging.” – Ali (47:41)
• Food Rituals: They debate best donuts and order ice cream cones out of nostalgia, even when the actual food is underwhelming—“Sprinkles are just image play.” (56:30–57:49)
• Needing to ‘Have a Moment’: Both confess to living life for imaginary movie moments—listening to music, windows down, hand out the window, “...just so people around me know she’s having a good day.” – Ali (58:30–58:43)

15. Final Thoughts: So True Moment

• So True Statement: Ali’s truth: “No one needs to shower every day… If you don’t work a job with your hands, you’re probably fine to skip a day. What do I need to wash off?” (63:46–64:39)
• Caleb’s Wrap-up: “You’re probably giving voice to millions right now. …It won’t be good for what is said about white people, but, you know.” (65:01–65:13)

Notable Quotes

• “No one needs to shower every day. You guys work behind a computer. Why are you stinky? Why do you need a shower? What are you doing?” — Ali (01:04/63:46)
• “Most things I do are fine. When other people do them—really bad.” — Caleb (01:41)
• “I just think the penis is so ergonomic...I don’t want to make this a binary thing—”/“But there’s two, which is easy.” — Ali/Caleb (07:25–07:36)
• “Comedians are the modern [philosophers]. When I’m talking about how many flaps are on a vagina, it’s philosophy.” — Ali (06:01)
• “I love corporations. I’m so impressed by teamwork and making something work efficiently, even if it’s through horrible ethics.” — Ali (42:29)
• “Sprinkles are just image play.” — Caleb (57:33)
• “I feel like I’ve aged out of being creeped on by comics… they’re like, she knows how this works now.” — Ali (48:52)
• “The aging twink who’s not desirable anymore is like a cornered rat...” — Caleb (49:49)
• “Cruise, that’s a corporation I can get behind.” — Ali (51:12)
• “I love poop edging.” — Ali (47:41)
• “[Leftists complain] that McDonald’s being brown and gray now is fascism. I’m like, there’s actual fascism going on!” — Caleb (38:55–39:01)
• “You’re probably giving voice to millions right now.” — Caleb (65:01)

Memorable Moments & Timestamps

• Improv Stereotypes, “Cool Girl” Mode (11:22–13:06): Ali navigating comedy hierarchies.
• Fixation on Legal Symbols (21:31–23:19): The strange sexiness of the § symbol.
• Chain Restaurant Culture Wars (38:46–39:40): The politics of Cracker Barrel branding.
• Admitting to Loving Corporations (42:25–42:46): Sincerity or satire?
• Game Show Meltdown (60:14–63:05): Ali’s competitiveness on display.
• Admitting to ‘Poop Edging’ (47:41): Left-field scatological confession.
• Iconic Truth, “No One Needs to Shower Every Day” (63:46–64:39): Ali’s So True moment.

Episode Tone & Style

Conversational, loose, often irreverent with flashes of poignant candor. Classic Headgum-style riffing, quick-witted banter, and frequent digressions that are sometimes as revealing as they are absurd.

For New Listeners

This episode is a deep-dive into the hearts and minds of working comedians; equal parts vulnerable, biting, and silly. No subject is too trivial, taboo, or meta. Expect to laugh, cringe, and probably wonder if you’ve secretly been “poop edging” this whole time.

Skip to these highlights:

• Hygiene semiotics & plane etiquette (01:04–03:10)
• Improv class drama (11:22–13:14)
• Chain nostalgia & corporate branding (38:46–39:40)
• The true meaning of “So True” (63:46–64:39)