So True with Caleb Hearon
Episode: Hoja Lopez Returns
Air Date: December 4, 2025
Guest: Hoja Lopez
Host: Caleb Hearon
Episode Overview
In this candid, hilarious, and moving episode, comedian Caleb Hearon welcomes back writer and comedian Hoja Lopez for a deep-dive on friendship, self-growth, party dynamics, intimacy, and the all-too-relatable navigation of social spaces as queer people and as fat people. The conversation weaves together sharp observations, honesty about personal flaws, and the warmth of long standing friendship, all delivered with the signature wit and affectionate ribbing both hosts are known for. This is an episode brimming with both laughter and “so true” moments.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. The Art of Commanding a Party
[02:41–04:24]
- Hoja shares her experience being the life of a birthday party the night before, holding court among a crowd of 25-year-olds:
"I was on fire last night...I held court. I really was at my most... and then, of course, everyone left, and I started to ask, like, what's the median age here? She's like 25." – Hoja [02:51]
- Caleb and Hoja explore how age and experience shape charisma and social presence.
- Reflect on the importance of being generous with attention, letting others speak to maintain control and connection.
"When you're on like that...a generous, charismatic queen lets the other speak, even when she's killing it." – Caleb [04:07]
2. Younger Party Trends: Crafting & Shepherd’s Pie
[04:24–05:28; 16:40–18:20]
- Recent parties, especially with younger crowds, involve crafts (like paint marbling) instead of wilder activities.
"It's crafts at parties." – Hoja [04:26]
- Caleb finds these trends both endearing and a bit maddening.
"The idea of showing up to a party and someone being like, we're going to Marble Paper together, it does...does upset me a little bit, doesn't it?" – Caleb [04:53]
- They also recount a cake-averse host serving shepherd’s pie with a joint lit on top, and the home’s total lack of comfortable chairs—launching a critical and comedic discussion on accessible seating.
3. Language, Identity, and Sexuality
[05:48–07:14]
- Hoja reflects on language and queerness:
"I'm better...I know how to be gay in English. I don't know how to be gay in Spanish." – Hoja [06:00]
- Caleb shares about his experience having sex in Spanish, even without sharing a language.
"Some of the hottest sex I've ever had...has been with someone that we didn't speak a shared language." – Caleb [06:56]
- They agree that attention and sensitivity matter more than language: “Great sex is just paying attention.” – Caleb [07:56]
4. Lesbian Bed Death & Long-term Intimacy
[08:30–11:14]
- Hoja discusses maintaining a nine-year relationship (“Every decision that you make day in and day out is to stave off lesbian bed death.” [08:41]), desire differences, and learning to compromise.
- Hoja’s partner Rachel is “constantly touching” her, while Hoja has to mentally shift gears into sex, sometimes “giving in to sex first.”
"Sometimes you have to do sex first, and then get into it as it's happening..." – Hoja [09:42]
- Their monogamy is pragmatic:
"The door is open, but neither of us walks through it...we just...don’t add more complications." – Hoja [11:16]
5. The Power (and Pitfalls) of Making Out
[12:01–15:12]
- Both discuss the thrill and "electric feeling" of making out with new people, though neither engages in nonchalant, friend-makeouts ("There has to be an electric feeling. The kiss has to feel spicy." – Hoja [13:12]).
- Caleb shares that, for him, making out is always sexual, not just a social activity.
6. Social Navigation at Parties: The Dud Dilemma
[15:00–16:35]
- Hoja confesses to dropping “duds” at parties and the importance of releasing people from dull conversations:
"Sometimes everyone has to play the dud." – Caleb [15:34]
"Let them go. Release them." – Hoja [16:14] - Both value gatherings where no one has to “host” emotionally or carry the social energy unsupported.
7. The Absence of Chairs: Fatness & Social Accessibility
[18:00–23:01]
- An extended, honest, and funny critique of party spaces not made for fat bodies:
"Thin people...when you're buying seats for your home, think of the fattest person you've ever seen...if the answer is no, skip it." – Caleb [19:02]
"Your little mid-century fucking furniture that you purchased—it's a hazard to me." – Hoja [19:42] - Both recount breaking chairs, the public shame, and the resilience (the “phoenix rising”) it builds.
8. High School Archetypes: Jocks vs. Theater Kids
[23:08–25:26]
- Caleb admits sporty guys were often nicer than theater kids ("The theater kids were mean as fuck." – Caleb [24:10]).
- Hoja relates, contrasting “open, easy” engagement versus critical overanalysis—she’s the latter, Rachel’s the former.
9. Best and Worst Qualities: Raw Self-Reflection
[25:44–38:21]
- Caleb asks Hoja: What's the best and worst about herself?
- Best: Radically inclusive, pursuer of intimacy ("I pursue intimacy and care and love and I love that about myself." [32:06])
- Worst: Judgmental and critical, occasionally joyless due to insecurity ("I can tear shit down in my brain...because I'm not feeling good about myself." [33:21])
- Hoja opens up about past self-criticism, toxic behaviors, kleptomania, and the turning point after a betrayal led to losing her friend group:
"You up, move forward. You can make amends from that point on...the shift is like, actually, I'm not bad. I forgive myself, even if no one else does." – Hoja [38:11]
- Caleb shifts focus from “Am I a good person?” to “Am I doing good?” and discusses embracing imperfection.
10. The Limits of Emotional Labor in Friendship
[39:34–46:59]
- Both reflect on giving and receiving feedback:
"I just won't engage in, like, constant evaluation and criticism." – Caleb [41:26]
"Not every relationship is worth so much work." – Caleb [41:31] - There's value in noting whose feedback truly matters—“I don't need notes from everybody.” – Caleb [45:16]
- Hoja agrees, feeling the exhaustion from always being open and desiring intimacy.
11. Drama, Gossip, and Knowing When to Let Go
[48:31–52:03]
- Both admit to getting sucked into small drama due to boredom/lack of conflict:
"A little bit of drama when I'm drama dry...I will lock on to that and try to...frame it over and over and over again until you get tired of yourself, and then it gets removed..." – Hoja [49:08]
- Caleb beautifully outlines how, after a few retellings, you find the "story beats," and eventually it's time to move on.
- “On the fifth one, we're gonna have to do solutions or move on.” – Caleb [51:09]
12. The Importance of Redirection and Social Awareness
[51:47–53:27]
- They both elaborate on being “socially on”—knowing when to redirect conversation, read the room, and avoid monopolizing attention.
- Observations on “powerful talkers” splitting a group, and the social fractals this creates.
13. Embracing Your Flaws ("I'm Happy to Be Annoying")
[54:36–55:15]
- Caleb: "You think I don't know that I'm annoying? Of course I'm annoying...It's awesome the way that I'm annoying. If it's a beautiful type of annoying, it's gorgeous."
- Prefers being “annoying” over “boring” and discusses the value of bringing energy.
14. Both Hosts’ Best and Worst Qualities
[55:16–57:17]
- Caleb shares he's loyal (“I feel I like that I'm loyal. I think that’s something nice about me.” – [55:33]) and rigid (“Things need to be my way, and it’s tough...I really could be less rigid.” – [55:56]).
- Both admit their rigidity often proves beneficial for career/creativity—but can hamper other areas of life.
"Sometimes you are right. And you also could shut the fuck up." – Caleb [57:17]
- Hoja is in her “opt out” era of giving unsolicited advice.
15. Roast Culture, Queer Community, and Sincerity
[57:43–61:02]
- Hoja: “Lesbians can say [expletive],” and the duo riff on queer in-group language, self-deprecating drag, and the lost art of playful queer ribbing.
"Queer people, we are supposed to be making fun of each other. The other people are not supposed to be making fun of us." – Caleb [59:40]
- Both cherish the warmth and authenticity of being roasted by friends.
16. “So True: True/False” Mini-Game
[61:10–63:15]
- Caleb quizzes Hoja on a series of whimsical trivia statements. Lots of warmth and banter.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On commanding a young party:
"They don't know what good is yet. And so I seemed like a shining star." – Hoja [03:13]
-
On sex without shared language:
"Some of the hottest sex I've ever had in my whole entire life has been...with someone that we didn't speak a shared language." – Caleb [06:56]
-
On monogamy:
"The door is open, but neither of us walks through it." – Hoja [11:16]
-
On party social dynamics:
"I've been the dud. Sometimes everyone has to play the dud." – Caleb [15:30]
-
On accessible seating:
"Thin people...I want you to think of the fattest person you've ever seen...if I had them over, would they enjoy this seat?" – Caleb [19:02]
"Your little mid-century fucking furniture that you purchased—it's a hazard to me. I will break your beautiful things." – Hoja [19:42]
-
On self-forgiveness and growth:
"You up, move forward. You can make amends from that point on...I'm not bad. I forgive myself even if no one else does." – Hoja [38:11]
-
On feedback in friendships:
"I don't need notes from everybody. I don't need to hear what everyone thinks of my art or behavior or work or attitude or disposition. Not everyone's notes are valuable." – Caleb [45:13]
-
On why embracing “annoying” is better than “boring”:
"You think I don't know that I'm annoying? Of course I'm annoying. Listen to me. Yeah, I'm fucking annoying. But it's awesome the way that I'm annoying. If it's a beautiful type of annoying, it's gorgeous." – Caleb [54:41]
-
On loyalty:
"The best thing about myself is that I am loyal. I think that's maybe my favorite." – Caleb [55:16]
-
On queer ribbing:
"Queer people, we are supposed to be making fun of each other. The other people are not supposed to be making fun of us...I am seeing you and I'm making fun of your outfit because I love you." – Caleb [59:45, 60:25]
Key Timestamps
- 02:41 – Hoja’s “on-fire” at a party
- 04:24 – Holding space and letting others speak
- 06:00 – Being gay in English vs. Spanish
- 08:41 – Lesbian bed death and long-term sex dynamics
- 15:34 – The inevitability of being “the dud” at a party
- 19:01 – The Great Chair Rant: home seating and fat accessibility
- 25:44–34:11 – Best/worst self-reflections and stories of self-improvement
- 38:11 – The power of self-forgiveness
- 41:26 – The limits of emotional labor in friendship
- 51:09 – Knowing when it’s time to stop talking about the drama
- 54:41–55:15 – Embracing one’s “annoying” qualities
- 59:40–61:02 – Ribbing, roast culture, and queer communal joy
- 61:10 – "So True: True/False" segment
Tone & Style
- Unapologetically honest, warm, and conversational
- A mix of affection, gentle teasing, humor, and sincerity
- Mutual respect and safety underpin even the most cutting jokes
- Self-reflective but never self-pitying; celebrates flawed humanity
Final Thoughts
This episode is a rich tapestry of friendship, self-acceptance, and queer joy, offering listeners both laughter and introspection. Caleb and Hoja use their rapport to get real about growth, the necessity of forgiveness, the challenge of intimacy, and the subtle social dance of parties. They remind us that self-improvement is lifelong, that playful drag between queer friends is a form of love, and that sometimes, it’s better to be a little (beautifully) annoying than to be boring.