Summary9 min read

So True with Caleb Hearon

Episode: Hoja Lopez Returns

Air Date: December 4, 2025

Guest: Hoja Lopez
Host: Caleb Hearon

Episode Overview

In this candid, hilarious, and moving episode, comedian Caleb Hearon welcomes back writer and comedian Hoja Lopez for a deep-dive on friendship, self-growth, party dynamics, intimacy, and the all-too-relatable navigation of social spaces as queer people and as fat people. The conversation weaves together sharp observations, honesty about personal flaws, and the warmth of long standing friendship, all delivered with the signature wit and affectionate ribbing both hosts are known for. This is an episode brimming with both laughter and “so true” moments.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Art of Commanding a Party

[02:41–04:24]

Hoja shares her experience being the life of a birthday party the night before, holding court among a crowd of 25-year-olds:

"I was on fire last night...I held court. I really was at my most... and then, of course, everyone left, and I started to ask, like, what's the median age here? She's like 25." – Hoja [02:51]
Caleb and Hoja explore how age and experience shape charisma and social presence.
Reflect on the importance of being generous with attention, letting others speak to maintain control and connection.

"When you're on like that...a generous, charismatic queen lets the other speak, even when she's killing it." – Caleb [04:07]

2. Younger Party Trends: Crafting & Shepherd’s Pie

[04:24–05:28; 16:40–18:20]

Recent parties, especially with younger crowds, involve crafts (like paint marbling) instead of wilder activities.

"It's crafts at parties." – Hoja [04:26]
Caleb finds these trends both endearing and a bit maddening.

"The idea of showing up to a party and someone being like, we're going to Marble Paper together, it does...does upset me a little bit, doesn't it?" – Caleb [04:53]
They also recount a cake-averse host serving shepherd’s pie with a joint lit on top, and the home’s total lack of comfortable chairs—launching a critical and comedic discussion on accessible seating.

3. Language, Identity, and Sexuality

[05:48–07:14]

Hoja reflects on language and queerness:

"I'm better...I know how to be gay in English. I don't know how to be gay in Spanish." – Hoja [06:00]
Caleb shares about his experience having sex in Spanish, even without sharing a language.

"Some of the hottest sex I've ever had...has been with someone that we didn't speak a shared language." – Caleb [06:56]
They agree that attention and sensitivity matter more than language: “Great sex is just paying attention.” – Caleb [07:56]

4. Lesbian Bed Death & Long-term Intimacy

[08:30–11:14]

Hoja discusses maintaining a nine-year relationship (“Every decision that you make day in and day out is to stave off lesbian bed death.” [08:41]), desire differences, and learning to compromise.
Hoja’s partner Rachel is “constantly touching” her, while Hoja has to mentally shift gears into sex, sometimes “giving in to sex first.”

"Sometimes you have to do sex first, and then get into it as it's happening..." – Hoja [09:42]
Their monogamy is pragmatic:

"The door is open, but neither of us walks through it...we just...don’t add more complications." – Hoja [11:16]

5. The Power (and Pitfalls) of Making Out

[12:01–15:12]

Both discuss the thrill and "electric feeling" of making out with new people, though neither engages in nonchalant, friend-makeouts ("There has to be an electric feeling. The kiss has to feel spicy." – Hoja [13:12]).
Caleb shares that, for him, making out is always sexual, not just a social activity.

6. Social Navigation at Parties: The Dud Dilemma

[15:00–16:35]

Hoja confesses to dropping “duds” at parties and the importance of releasing people from dull conversations:

"Sometimes everyone has to play the dud." – Caleb [15:34]
"Let them go. Release them." – Hoja [16:14]
Both value gatherings where no one has to “host” emotionally or carry the social energy unsupported.

7. The Absence of Chairs: Fatness & Social Accessibility

[18:00–23:01]

An extended, honest, and funny critique of party spaces not made for fat bodies:

"Thin people...when you're buying seats for your home, think of the fattest person you've ever seen...if the answer is no, skip it." – Caleb [19:02]
"Your little mid-century fucking furniture that you purchased—it's a hazard to me." – Hoja [19:42]
Both recount breaking chairs, the public shame, and the resilience (the “phoenix rising”) it builds.

8. High School Archetypes: Jocks vs. Theater Kids

[23:08–25:26]

Caleb admits sporty guys were often nicer than theater kids ("The theater kids were mean as fuck." – Caleb [24:10]).
Hoja relates, contrasting “open, easy” engagement versus critical overanalysis—she’s the latter, Rachel’s the former.

9. Best and Worst Qualities: Raw Self-Reflection

[25:44–38:21]

Caleb asks Hoja: What's the best and worst about herself?
- Best: Radically inclusive, pursuer of intimacy ("I pursue intimacy and care and love and I love that about myself." [32:06])
- Worst: Judgmental and critical, occasionally joyless due to insecurity ("I can tear shit down in my brain...because I'm not feeling good about myself." [33:21])
Hoja opens up about past self-criticism, toxic behaviors, kleptomania, and the turning point after a betrayal led to losing her friend group:

"You up, move forward. You can make amends from that point on...the shift is like, actually, I'm not bad. I forgive myself, even if no one else does." – Hoja [38:11]
Caleb shifts focus from “Am I a good person?” to “Am I doing good?” and discusses embracing imperfection.

10. The Limits of Emotional Labor in Friendship

[39:34–46:59]

Both reflect on giving and receiving feedback:

"I just won't engage in, like, constant evaluation and criticism." – Caleb [41:26]
"Not every relationship is worth so much work." – Caleb [41:31]
There's value in noting whose feedback truly matters—“I don't need notes from everybody.” – Caleb [45:16]
Hoja agrees, feeling the exhaustion from always being open and desiring intimacy.

11. Drama, Gossip, and Knowing When to Let Go

[48:31–52:03]

Both admit to getting sucked into small drama due to boredom/lack of conflict:

"A little bit of drama when I'm drama dry...I will lock on to that and try to...frame it over and over and over again until you get tired of yourself, and then it gets removed..." – Hoja [49:08]
Caleb beautifully outlines how, after a few retellings, you find the "story beats," and eventually it's time to move on.
“On the fifth one, we're gonna have to do solutions or move on.” – Caleb [51:09]

12. The Importance of Redirection and Social Awareness

[51:47–53:27]

They both elaborate on being “socially on”—knowing when to redirect conversation, read the room, and avoid monopolizing attention.
Observations on “powerful talkers” splitting a group, and the social fractals this creates.

13. Embracing Your Flaws ("I'm Happy to Be Annoying")

[54:36–55:15]

Caleb: "You think I don't know that I'm annoying? Of course I'm annoying...It's awesome the way that I'm annoying. If it's a beautiful type of annoying, it's gorgeous."
Prefers being “annoying” over “boring” and discusses the value of bringing energy.

14. Both Hosts’ Best and Worst Qualities

[55:16–57:17]

Caleb shares he's loyal (“I feel I like that I'm loyal. I think that’s something nice about me.” – [55:33]) and rigid (“Things need to be my way, and it’s tough...I really could be less rigid.” – [55:56]).
Both admit their rigidity often proves beneficial for career/creativity—but can hamper other areas of life.

"Sometimes you are right. And you also could shut the fuck up." – Caleb [57:17]
Hoja is in her “opt out” era of giving unsolicited advice.

15. Roast Culture, Queer Community, and Sincerity

[57:43–61:02]

Hoja: “Lesbians can say [expletive],” and the duo riff on queer in-group language, self-deprecating drag, and the lost art of playful queer ribbing.

"Queer people, we are supposed to be making fun of each other. The other people are not supposed to be making fun of us." – Caleb [59:40]
Both cherish the warmth and authenticity of being roasted by friends.

16. “So True: True/False” Mini-Game

[61:10–63:15]

Caleb quizzes Hoja on a series of whimsical trivia statements. Lots of warmth and banter.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On commanding a young party:

"They don't know what good is yet. And so I seemed like a shining star." – Hoja [03:13]
On sex without shared language:

"Some of the hottest sex I've ever had in my whole entire life has been...with someone that we didn't speak a shared language." – Caleb [06:56]
On monogamy:

"The door is open, but neither of us walks through it." – Hoja [11:16]
On party social dynamics:

"I've been the dud. Sometimes everyone has to play the dud." – Caleb [15:30]
On accessible seating:

"Thin people...I want you to think of the fattest person you've ever seen...if I had them over, would they enjoy this seat?" – Caleb [19:02]

"Your little mid-century fucking furniture that you purchased—it's a hazard to me. I will break your beautiful things." – Hoja [19:42]
On self-forgiveness and growth:

"You up, move forward. You can make amends from that point on...I'm not bad. I forgive myself even if no one else does." – Hoja [38:11]
On feedback in friendships:

"I don't need notes from everybody. I don't need to hear what everyone thinks of my art or behavior or work or attitude or disposition. Not everyone's notes are valuable." – Caleb [45:13]
On why embracing “annoying” is better than “boring”:

"You think I don't know that I'm annoying? Of course I'm annoying. Listen to me. Yeah, I'm fucking annoying. But it's awesome the way that I'm annoying. If it's a beautiful type of annoying, it's gorgeous." – Caleb [54:41]
On loyalty:

"The best thing about myself is that I am loyal. I think that's maybe my favorite." – Caleb [55:16]
On queer ribbing:

"Queer people, we are supposed to be making fun of each other. The other people are not supposed to be making fun of us...I am seeing you and I'm making fun of your outfit because I love you." – Caleb [59:45, 60:25]

Key Timestamps

02:41 – Hoja’s “on-fire” at a party
04:24 – Holding space and letting others speak
06:00 – Being gay in English vs. Spanish
08:41 – Lesbian bed death and long-term sex dynamics
15:34 – The inevitability of being “the dud” at a party
19:01 – The Great Chair Rant: home seating and fat accessibility
25:44–34:11 – Best/worst self-reflections and stories of self-improvement
38:11 – The power of self-forgiveness
41:26 – The limits of emotional labor in friendship
51:09 – Knowing when it’s time to stop talking about the drama
54:41–55:15 – Embracing one’s “annoying” qualities
59:40–61:02 – Ribbing, roast culture, and queer communal joy
61:10 – "So True: True/False" segment

Tone & Style

Unapologetically honest, warm, and conversational
A mix of affection, gentle teasing, humor, and sincerity
Mutual respect and safety underpin even the most cutting jokes
Self-reflective but never self-pitying; celebrates flawed humanity

Final Thoughts

This episode is a rich tapestry of friendship, self-acceptance, and queer joy, offering listeners both laughter and introspection. Caleb and Hoja use their rapport to get real about growth, the necessity of forgiveness, the challenge of intimacy, and the subtle social dance of parties. They remind us that self-improvement is lifelong, that playful drag between queer friends is a form of love, and that sometimes, it’s better to be a little (beautifully) annoying than to be boring.

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Transcript722 lines

[00:00]
Caleb
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[00:32]
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[00:46]
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[00:54]
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[01:03]
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[01:46]
This is a headgum podcast.
[01:49]
Oha Lopez
People would really like me when they first met me. And then the relationship would peak at the beginning and eventually every single one of those friendships would. They would get to know me and it was harder to be my friend.
[02:01]
Caleb
Why was that?
[02:03]
Oha Lopez
You know, I was a big liar and a thief and yes.
[02:11]
Oh, hi.
[02:12]
Caleb
What's up, my queen? You going to. You going to pop that water open right at the start?
[02:18]
Oha Lopez
Everybody watch. I think this can be sexual if you try hard enough. Are you ready?
[02:22]
Caleb
I'm feeling turned on. Oh Never mind. You. You blew it for me personally.
[02:29]
What's going on, dude?
[02:31]
Oha Lopez
Oh, my God. There's a word in Spanish called medes belle, which means that I stayed up late, barely slept, and now I'm here. But I think you did the same thing.
[02:40]
Caleb
What? Why were you up late?
[02:42]
Oha Lopez
Well, listen, I went to a party last night.
[02:44]
Caleb
What party?
[02:45]
Oha Lopez
Okay, okay. It was my friend's birthday. I don't know very well. Yeah, but you guys, I was a hit.
[02:51]
Caleb
You were a hit.
[02:52]
Oha Lopez
I was on fire last night. But. I was on fire. But I was also allowing other people to speak. I held court. I held court. I really was at my most. Yesterday. It was. I really had the time of my life. And then, of course, everyone left, and I started to ask, like, what's the median age here? She's like 25.
[03:13]
Caleb
Yeah.
[03:13]
Oha Lopez
And I went, oh, they don't know what good is yet. And so I seemed like a shining star.
[03:20]
Caleb
They were drawn in by the expertise and wisdom of an older, beautiful woman.
[03:25]
Oha Lopez
Exactly right.
[03:26]
Caleb
Who knows the world a little bit.
[03:27]
Oha Lopez
Who knows the world a bit. I've been through at least two, like, you know, psychosexual threesomes. I've definitely, like, you know, dated a married person.
[03:36]
Caleb
Oh, I remember this. Yeah, yeah, I remember. I remember hearing about this.
[03:40]
Oha Lopez
Yeah, yeah.
[03:41]
Caleb
That's huge. There is something so electric about when you go to a party and you're fudgeing on. Like, hold on.
[03:49]
Oha Lopez
Right now is. This is my stage and it's a three bedroom apartment.
[03:54]
Caleb
Yeah.
[03:54]
Oha Lopez
In, like, Humboldt Park. And everybody here is obsessed with me. And that's the thing. I'm obsessed back. Yeah, you have to be obsessed.
[04:03]
Caleb
I knew what kind of headspace you were in last night when you said I allowed other people to speak.
[04:07]
Oha Lopez
Yeah.
[04:07]
Caleb
I'm like that. Because when you're on like that, it's like, I don't really have to see the mic tonight, but a generous, charismatic queen lets the other speak, even when she's killing it.
[04:17]
Oha Lopez
Absolutely. Because also, there's a self interest there, you know, that if you keep going, you'll lose it.
[04:22]
Caleb
Yeah.
[04:23]
Oha Lopez
You're gonna lose them if you don't let them in.
[04:25]
Caleb
God. Something to be said about that.
[04:26]
Oha Lopez
Absolutely. And the host was so lovely. They did paint marbling, so it was like everybody brought a piece of paper, and then they did, like, the ink stuff, and then you kind of dip your paper. It's a very 70s sort of craft, but that's what the kids are into. It's crafts at parties.
[04:43]
Caleb
Really?
[04:44]
Oha Lopez
Yes.
[04:44]
Caleb
And now, why do you Think that makes me mad? That made me mad. Why did you think that make me. Made me mad?
[04:50]
Oha Lopez
I don't know. What dark place is that for you?
[04:54]
Caleb
I don't know. Like the idea of showing up to a party and someone being like, we're going to Marble Paper together, it does. Does upset me a little bit, doesn't it?
[05:02]
Oha Lopez
And there was like a corner for it.
[05:04]
Caleb
Oh, it was in the corner.
[05:05]
Oha Lopez
It was a corner. It wasn't sort of a centrally located marbling sort of setup. Yeah, but I've been to parties recently where there's sort of like. There's kind of like rooms that you can go into and instead of there being like dark sex heroine, it's like, you know, like four guys playing domino together.
[05:22]
Caleb
Yeah.
[05:22]
Oha Lopez
And like reading a character at the Bada Bing Club. What the fuck is going on? Yeah, it's like, it is kind of the Bada Bang Club.
[05:29]
Caleb
But I think it's only joyful to do a paper craft at the party. I wonder why it upsets me so. Yeah, I do. I think that's probably a me problem. But I'm like, that did that struck. That struck anger into my heart.
[05:40]
Oha Lopez
Do you want to give me like the. The matissas? I'm really into Spanish right now. I don't know what's going on. This is my second word. I can't conjure anyone.
[05:48]
Caleb
Is that finish your first language?
[05:49]
Oha Lopez
It is. Yes. It is my first language.
[05:52]
Caleb
I'm really into my native tongue right now, actually.
[05:54]
Oha Lopez
I've just been in America for 20 years that sometimes I do speak, I think officially English better than I speak Spanish.
[06:00]
Caleb
Oh, really?
[06:01]
Oha Lopez
And I'm better. I'm. I know how to be gay in English. I don't know how to be gay in Spanish.
[06:06]
Caleb
That is so fascinating.
[06:07]
Oha Lopez
Yes. There's a whole culture in English of being gay that I really identify with. And then I try to be gay in Spanish and it's flat.
[06:15]
Caleb
I can only be gay in Spanish in the way of like, kon luger sin ligure. Like, who has a place? Who doesn't have a place? Passivo activo. Like, I can only do like, I've been in Spanish speaking countries on Grindr enough to. I can do like gay sex.
[06:33]
Oha Lopez
You could do gay sex in Spanish.
[06:35]
Caleb
I can do gay sex in Spanish. And some of the hottest sex I've ever had in my whole entire life has been. Has been. Well, sure, with the guys who speak Spanish, but also just with. There have maybe been, I would say.
[06:48]
Maybe 2 to 5% of my sex has been with someone that we didn't speak a shared language and.
[06:57]
Oha Lopez
But you did.
[06:57]
Caleb
I liked it.
[06:58]
Oha Lopez
But you really did.
[06:59]
Caleb
I had fun with those. I like that.
[07:01]
Oha Lopez
What? That is so fascinating to me because there is a. Where there's the ancient ritual of sex which is very different than just, you know, miss.
[07:10]
Caleb
But when I'm doing it.
[07:14]
Oha Lopez
Do you feel like connected to your forefathers?
[07:17]
Caleb
She got so mad. Michelle got so mad when I did that. Shook her head so big. Yeah, there's no difference when I'm doing it, sweetheart. But tell you stories.
[07:24]
Oha Lopez
Stop. You really become sort of a very forward Italian father sometimes, you know, just too much divulging, too much information to your children.
[07:33]
Caleb
Yeah, well, I like sex. I like. Yeah. I mean, the, the nice thing about sex with someone. You. Okay. When you're having sex with someone and you don't speak the same language.
[07:42]
Oha Lopez
Yeah, I hit it.
[07:43]
Caleb
There's a beautiful thing of like, really, you always pay attention during sex if you're, if you're doing it well, but you really are, like, locked in because you're like, I want to make sure that we're both. If I have to pull out the phone to be like, wait, tell me what's going on. You know?
[07:55]
Oha Lopez
Yeah. Where do you. Yeah.
[07:56]
Caleb
But you can tell most things you need to know about how it's going by just really paying attention. And great sex is just paying attention. But wow, when you're really paying attention.
[08:05]
Oha Lopez
Bless the people who get to have sex with you, my friend.
[08:07]
Caleb
Say that.
[08:07]
Oha Lopez
Just bless the people who get to do it with you, Caleb. Because, like, if you have sex, the way that you do comedy, the way that you think about the world, I just genuinely think that you're. They're having a great time.
[08:20]
Caleb
You know, it can be. It can be.
[08:26]
It can be a great time. Oh, my God. How are you and Rachel, your partner.
[08:30]
Oha Lopez
Yes.
[08:31]
Caleb
Have been together for so long, Long, long term sex. How's the sex going?
[08:35]
Oha Lopez
You know, there is something called lesbian bed death, which I do believe that all lesbians are staving off at every single moment.
[08:42]
Caleb
Yes. I know.
[08:42]
Oha Lopez
Every decision that you make day in and day out is to save off lesbian bed death. I think women have this sort of like peaks of desire and they're very, like, hard to overlap at the same time. And so while we don't schedule sex, there is a level of like, we've got to do it. Like, this is the good for the relationship a lot of times. And then other times is the most natural, fun, organic, easy thing but we've been together for nine years now and like, she has way. She's so horny all the time. She's obsessed with my body. She's constantly touching it. She's constantly. And I'm going, get the fuck off of me. Like, we have different drives. And so I think I learned to like, give in to sex first and then she's learned more how to let the flirting and the emotional side come first. Like, we've both had to meet give in to sex.
[09:37]
Caleb
Didn't feel great to hear.
[09:38]
Oha Lopez
So sorry. So sorry.
[09:41]
Caleb
What do you mean by give in to sex?
[09:42]
Oha Lopez
Like, like the idea for me is that you start with flirtation and like excitement, but after you've been with someone for a while. For me personally, I don't think it's for everyone. You have to sometimes do sex first and then get into it as it's happening. You know what I mean? Like.
[09:59]
Caleb
Oh, I understand what you mean.
[10:01]
Oha Lopez
Yeah.
[10:01]
Caleb
Like order of pemdas.
[10:02]
Oha Lopez
Pemdas, exactly. You have to sort of decide that sex is happening and that and you have to go with that decision. And then eventually in the first, you know, it just takes a little bit and then you're like, I fucking love this. I forgot that I was having a great time with this. Your brain just. I don't know what that is. I think your brain wants to continue in the inertia of, like your day. I think women's brains can be very, like, what's the next thing? What's the, like, what do I need to work on? Or what's, you know, what does the house need? What does my mom need? And I think Rachel's brain is very much like.
[10:37]
Clitorally focused. Say that she wants to come.
[10:40]
Caleb
Yeah.
[10:41]
Oha Lopez
And I'm like, yeah, I could, I could come.
[10:44]
Caleb
Yeah, I could come. Yeah. Rachel. That's my boy.
[10:47]
Oha Lopez
Yeah, she is. She's a horn dog. Okay. This woman is like, literally, I have to shoot her little fucking looks. Like, shut the fuck up. Cause she's talking about my tits in front of me. To our friends. I go, rachel, Rachel, stop, stop.
[11:04]
Caleb
Those are my tits.
[11:05]
Oha Lopez
I kinda like it a little.
[11:07]
Caleb
Yeah, a little.
[11:09]
Oha Lopez
But I do have to.
[11:12]
Caleb
You guys never did open, right?
[11:14]
Oha Lopez
No.
[11:15]
Caleb
You've always been monog.
[11:16]
Oha Lopez
We've talked about this a little bit of like, the door is open, but neither of us walks through it. Really. Yeah, we just, I think I, we, we sometimes I think just don't. Like, this is great. Don't. Let's not add more complications and variables to it. Yeah, but I Also, don't find anyone that I want to make out with and have sex with a lot, so.
[11:37]
Caleb
Really?
[11:38]
Oha Lopez
Yeah, I don't see them.
[11:39]
Caleb
Sex. I understand sex. I. If I'm have. If I'm in. If I'm in a situation, if I'm in a relationship with somebody and I am falling in love with them or in love with them, sex, I'm kind of like, whatever. Maybe I'd have sex with someone else if the opportunity. If I was, like, away for a long time or something, I'd get horny. I also don't care if my partner sleeps with other people that much these days, but making out. I'm always wanting to make out with someone new.
[12:01]
Oha Lopez
Oh, making out is delightful.
[12:02]
Caleb
I'm gonna cry.
[12:03]
Oha Lopez
Cause making out is incredible.
[12:05]
Caleb
Making out with someone new. Ooh, the.
[12:08]
Oha Lopez
The sort of, like, tickle of the throat. Sometimes I feel like there's a thing, like, just coming out of my tongue, just going, kiss me, you know? Yeah. Yeah. What is that?
[12:19]
Caleb
Don't fight that. I like making out with someone new. It's one of the best things that ever happens to me.
[12:22]
Oha Lopez
Have you made out with a girl, like, in the last five, six years? When was the last time you made out? I didn't finish that question, but, you.
[12:30]
Caleb
Know, the last time I made out with a girl.
[12:33]
No.
[12:35]
Oha Lopez
No, no.
[12:38]
Caleb
It's been a long time.
[12:39]
Oha Lopez
Yeah, it's been.
[12:40]
Caleb
I'm not a. I will say I have a lot of friends that are, I think, just maybe more fun and more progressive or advanced than I am. Like, it feels like they're correct, that they're, like, making out is like a fun. Like, if I'm making out, it's because I. Like, it's like a sexual thing to me.
[12:55]
Oha Lopez
You want it to lead one thing to another.
[12:56]
Caleb
It doesn't have to lead one thing to another. I'm quite happy to just make out sometimes, but I only want to do it with people that I'm, like, sexually attracted to. I have friends that are like, oh, my God, I'll make out with my friends just for something to do at the bar or whatever. And I'm like, yeah, that's not really my vibe.
[13:10]
Oha Lopez
I don't do that either.
[13:11]
Caleb
Do you know what I mean?
[13:12]
Oha Lopez
No, I totally understand what you mean. There has to be an electric feeling. The kiss has to feel spicy.
[13:20]
Caleb
Exactly.
[13:20]
Oha Lopez
In some way. Yeah.
[13:21]
Caleb
It feels like making out with a friend, like, I've done it. I've done it inadvert. I wasn't doing it to make out with a friend. I've tried making out with a friend that I thought maybe there would be a spark with. And when there's not that spark of, like, we might. We could. We both want to. Who knows if we will? When that spark isn't there, it just feels like making out with someone at work, like, like, like acting or on camera or something where it's like, oh, it's like, this just isn't the same. It's the. There's. There's some, like, spirit of making out removed from it. But I'm like, now we're just touching faces.
[13:50]
Oha Lopez
Yeah. It could be any other body part as well. It might feel the same.
[13:53]
Caleb
Totally. I think it's cool, though, when people are like that. I wish I got joy. If I could get like a. If I could get like a.
[14:01]
Like the same feeling from just making out with a friend, God, my life would be so easy.
[14:05]
Oha Lopez
Yeah. Do you. When you walk into a party, do you, like, scan a room and do you go, who can I make out with here? Like, what's the. When you walk in, what is your, like, prime directive?
[14:15]
Caleb
Not really. I'm not going out with the intention. Usually I'm going genuinely. I'm usually going out for two reasons. Either I'm going out to have fun with my friends and feel alive and it's a. I really want to be out. Or more often, I'm going out out of some sort of obligation that I was. I need to be out. I have some reason I have to be at this thing. I told someone I would be there, whatever. It's funny, we've been to a couple parties this month for the movie and I every time have said I'm staying for 45 minutes, doing my obligation and going home, and then I have fun. I stay out for four or five hours. But, yeah, I'm not. I'm not really ever walking into a bar or a party being like, who am I going to?
[14:51]
Oha Lopez
Who is it here?
[14:52]
Caleb
But when it happens, it's so great.
[14:54]
Oha Lopez
It is. I definitely don't scan for that, but I am doing little tastes and bites of who's fun here.
[15:00]
Caleb
Yeah.
[15:01]
Oha Lopez
Who's interesting here? Who's going to say something crazy to me that's going to be fun and entertaining to hang out with.
[15:06]
Caleb
Yeah.
[15:06]
Oha Lopez
And then I am at times when I'm in that mode last night. Dropping people like flies, too. Yeah, a little bit.
[15:12]
Caleb
Yeah.
[15:13]
Oha Lopez
I can be a little cutthroat at a party that I'm trying to have fun at.
[15:16]
Caleb
Yeah. Oh, yeah. I'm moving on.
[15:18]
Oha Lopez
I gotta move on from this conversation.
[15:19]
Caleb
I'm moving on.
[15:20]
Oha Lopez
Yeah, I got hit. Well, listen. They might listen to this, but I got hit with a couple of duds.
[15:27]
I'm so sorry if you were at this party. It's okay.
[15:30]
Caleb
We've.
[15:30]
Oha Lopez
I've been the dud.
[15:32]
Caleb
Yes, We've all been the dud.
[15:33]
Oha Lopez
We've all been the dud.
[15:34]
Caleb
Sometimes everyone has to play the dude.
[15:36]
Oha Lopez
Caleb, for this perspective. We've all been the dud.
[15:37]
Caleb
We've all been the dud. It's okay.
[15:38]
Oha Lopez
Last night, they were not on their best. Like, they were not the shinies that they've ever been.
[15:42]
Caleb
I have felt myself at parties. I have felt myself in a conversation being like, this person deserves to be talking to someone better right now. I'm not. No, I'm not on right now. That's okay. I'm looking around the room. I'm going, there's more on people in here. I'm talking to somebody who's on right now. And I. I release them. I release. I go.
[16:01]
Oha Lopez
You go talk to someone who's on that power, too. That's to hold on to someone when you're not at your best.
[16:06]
Caleb
Tonight, I'm the dude.
[16:08]
Oha Lopez
A torturous thing to do to someone.
[16:10]
Caleb
Yes, it is.
[16:11]
Oha Lopez
Let them go.
[16:12]
Caleb
And you know what? Let me tell you something. Release them.
[16:14]
Oha Lopez
Release them.
[16:15]
Caleb
Release them.
[16:16]
Oha Lopez
And if their eyes are glazed over, release them. That's why it's so nice when you're around people where you don't feel like you have to host anything.
[16:26]
Caleb
Yeah, you.
[16:26]
Oha Lopez
Where you don't feel like you have to make it fun. Other people make it fun, too. And you can volley. And that. That is. I feel like all of my bones just settle. I go, oh, thank God.
[16:36]
Caleb
I know. It's electric.
[16:38]
Oha Lopez
And that was me at the party last night.
[16:40]
Caleb
You were in it last night.
[16:41]
Oha Lopez
I was so in it. Oh, else that happened. Somebody made a delicious shepherd's pie that was passed around because she hates cakes. So.
[16:52]
Caleb
I think I'm getting mad again.
[16:54]
Oha Lopez
She was so hardcore about not wanting a cake. And so they passed around a delicious shepherd's pie with a joint lit at the top of it.
[17:03]
Caleb
I'm back. Yeah, I'm back.
[17:04]
Oha Lopez
Unfortunately, I kind of am now. Just rage, baby.
[17:07]
Caleb
But that brought me back.
[17:08]
Oha Lopez
Oh, my God. Do you ever have moments at parties where you need to take little breaks? Like, you'll go to the bathroom so they'll totally be quiet?
[17:13]
Caleb
100%. I'll go to the bathroom. And I will just stand in the bathroom sometimes and cold.
[17:17]
Oha Lopez
Yes.
[17:20]
I sat in the little back, like, stair area, you know, like Chicago houses have that, like, enclosed stairs going up the back of homes. And I sat there by myself and a woman walked out and she saw my face, she went, oh, I'll come back later.
[17:34]
Caleb
Yes, I'll be. God bless that.
[17:37]
Oha Lopez
She read that sign.
[17:39]
Caleb
God bless the person who sees you having a moment and lets you have it and just goes, mmm, amen.
[17:46]
Oha Lopez
Get out. You do whatever you need to do.
[17:48]
Caleb
Let the church hear it. That is so beautiful.
[17:50]
Oha Lopez
Yeah. You just need to regulate. You need to calm down. Nothing like a silent moment in cold. I can't be hot and have a silent moment. That's like. That's a prison. That's a hell.
[18:01]
Caleb
One of the most exciting things that ever happens to me in my entire life is when I'm in a hot space, feeling overstimulated, and I can step out to a cold outside and be quiet. And I need that.
[18:15]
Oha Lopez
You have to have it.
[18:16]
Caleb
Because when I go back in there, I'm back at work.
[18:19]
Oha Lopez
I'm back at work.
[18:20]
Caleb
I'm gonna service those people.
[18:22]
Oha Lopez
When I went back into the party after that, what I would call a 10 minute, sort of like sensory deprivation chamber in the back of the house. I walked back in. Killed. Yes, killed.
[18:35]
Caleb
That's so beautiful.
[18:36]
Oha Lopez
Yeah. I will say. And not to talk about this every single time we're together.
[18:40]
Caleb
Yeah.
[18:40]
Oha Lopez
No chairs in that house, God damn it. Not a one. A chair in that fucking house I could sit in.
[18:45]
Caleb
And I knew there was something about the crafting in the shepherd's pie that did let me know it wasn't going to be a comfy seat house.
[18:52]
Oha Lopez
Banana's not a comfy seat house.
[18:54]
Caleb
I want to tell thin people, I'm going to try not to cry.
[18:57]
Oha Lopez
Yeah.
[18:58]
Caleb
Thin people, I'm going to try not to cry when I say this to you.
[19:01]
Oha Lopez
Yeah.
[19:02]
Caleb
Thin people. When you're buying seats for your home, I want you to think of the fattest person you've ever seen.
[19:09]
Oha Lopez
Thank you.
[19:10]
Caleb
I want you to think of the fattest, biggest, chunkiest motherfucker you've ever encountered. And I want you to think, if I had them over, would they enjoy this seat? And if the answer is no, I'd like you to skip it. Thin people. Thin people, if you can hear me, thin people, if you can hear me right now, Thin people, they can't. Thin people.
[19:30]
Oha Lopez
A lot of thin fans. I feel they do.
[19:32]
Caleb
And it's concerning because they are small and thin people, your seats aren't working.
[19:37]
Oha Lopez
No.
[19:38]
Caleb
And I'm not changing.
[19:39]
Oha Lopez
No.
[19:39]
Caleb
I'm not gonna lose weight to come over.
[19:41]
Oha Lopez
No.
[19:41]
Caleb
You need to get different chairs.
[19:43]
Oha Lopez
And I'm gonna tell you something right now. Your little mid century fucking furniture that you purchased.
[19:48]
Caleb
Yeah.
[19:49]
Oha Lopez
It's a hazard to me. I will break your beautiful things.
[19:52]
Caleb
Mid.
[19:52]
Oha Lopez
Mom. It doesn't mid. My.
[19:54]
Caleb
Good God. I gotta get the fuck outta here.
[20:00]
Oha Lopez
She had their dining room table was. It was so cute. It was a bench that has the seats attached to the table so you can't move the bench out.
[20:10]
Caleb
What the.
[20:10]
Oha Lopez
To sit. So you literally have to be a certain diameter to fit it. Anyways.
[20:15]
Caleb
Antique more like. I think I'm going to break this fucking thing.
[20:22]
Oha Lopez
Have you ever broken a chair? Oh, my God. That's how I got my strength. I'm going to tell you right now.
[20:27]
Caleb
Yeah.
[20:28]
Oha Lopez
Not by physically breaking a chair, but the dignity that you have to have.
[20:32]
Caleb
Yeah.
[20:33]
Oha Lopez
Coming back up after breaking in front of a group of people is the.
[20:38]
Caleb
Like a phoenix rising from the ashes.
[20:39]
Oha Lopez
Absolutely.
[20:40]
Caleb
Yeah. Pulling yourself out of the rubble.
[20:42]
Oha Lopez
Absolutely.
[20:45]
Just a hand first, and then you come out ash driven. When you face covered in ash as a fat person.
[20:52]
Caleb
When you break a chair in front of other people, the way you have to roll off the wreckage because you.
[20:56]
Oha Lopez
Can'T get straight back up, baby. You can't get straight back up.
[21:00]
Caleb
Well, you have to roll off the wreckage onto your elbows and knees and then begin to ply yourself. Like a phoenix rising from the ashes. You have to pry yourself off the.
[21:09]
Oha Lopez
Ground, slapping away the hands of helpers.
[21:11]
Caleb
Don't touch me.
[21:12]
Oha Lopez
Don't fucking touch me.
[21:13]
Caleb
Like Lieutenant Dan in Forrest Gump.
[21:15]
Oha Lopez
Absolutely. Don't touch me.
[21:17]
Caleb
On New Year's Eve when he wants to put himself back in his chair, you have to get yourself up. Oh, it's humiliate. But then you stand tall.
[21:23]
Oha Lopez
You said, I can go through anything.
[21:26]
Caleb
Yes.
[21:26]
Oha Lopez
I can do anything. 1. Absolutely. It is invigorating to fall off a chair, come back out, break it, and then just be you again.
[21:39]
Caleb
Yeah. To stand in. To stand in the rubble of the chair that you broke with your. Just by having a body that you put on it.
[21:45]
Oha Lopez
Yeah, absolutely.
[21:46]
Caleb
And to look around and go, everyone sit with this.
[21:49]
Oha Lopez
Yeah. And to watch the apologists.
[21:50]
Caleb
Yes.
[21:51]
Oha Lopez
To watch them all feel bad.
[21:53]
Caleb
Yes. And to watch.
[21:54]
Oha Lopez
Who said we should have thought of this? And I go, yes, you should have.
[21:57]
Caleb
And to watch the chair owner. And if it's a good chair owner.
[22:00]
Oha Lopez
If it's a good chair.
[22:00]
Caleb
To watch the chair owner go, oh, there was something already kind of off with that chair.
[22:05]
Oha Lopez
There's already a little scratch and wobbly.
[22:07]
Caleb
When I sat down on it, it felt fine.
[22:10]
Oha Lopez
It felt good.
[22:11]
Caleb
There was nothing. Off with the chair when I touched it.
[22:13]
Oha Lopez
Yeah. No. I've broke out one. There is a succession of chairs that are terrible for fat people. Number one, in my mind is the bad Bunny. Puerto Rican chair, the Latino chair. It's the plastic white chair with the Corona brand on the back of it.
[22:27]
Caleb
Oh, that's so interesting. I didn't think of that as a Latino chair.
[22:29]
Oha Lopez
Oh, well, that's.
[22:30]
Caleb
I thought that I thought of that as a white.
[22:32]
Oha Lopez
Oh, that's.
[22:32]
Caleb
Isn't that beautiful?
[22:33]
Oha Lopez
Beautiful.
[22:35]
Caleb
And you. We're not so different.
[22:36]
Oha Lopez
We're not so different. That's so beautiful.
[22:41]
It's the COVID of his album. Is that chair. And as soon as I saw it, I said, this man is fat phobic.
[22:46]
Caleb
Yeah.
[22:46]
Oha Lopez
And very beautiful and good at what he does.
[22:49]
Caleb
I don't care what his. I need to see. I need to be with him.
[22:52]
Oha Lopez
You need to be. As a body.
[22:53]
Caleb
I need to see what Incline.
[22:55]
Oha Lopez
Motherfucking. So Ad with the little tattoos, his little facial hair.
[23:01]
Caleb
You know what sucks about me? What now guys, like, like, okay, yeah, go off. I'm gonna be sick.
[23:09]
Oha Lopez
Wait, what?
[23:09]
Caleb
Okay, Straight guys. And I'm not saying he's straight. I'm just saying straight guys. I don't know if he's straight. Straight guys who think they've got it going on. They usually do with me. Do you know what I mean? Like, when straight guys have, like, little tiny tattoos and wear, like, a fucking keychain on their belt loop, and unfortunately, when they leave the house and they're like, I'm fin. Unfortunately, I usually agree they get you. And that's stupid of me.
[23:38]
Oha Lopez
Yeah. But it's like, are you the. Were you the kind of the person that, like, liked the main jock guy, like the main football player or, like, exclusively?
[23:45]
Caleb
But yeah.
[23:46]
Oha Lopez
Yeah, me too.
[23:46]
Caleb
I was liking other things as well. But, yes, I was sometimes into that.
[23:49]
Oha Lopez
Yeah.
[23:50]
Caleb
I'm not gonna lie about that.
[23:51]
Oha Lopez
It's the confidence. And I believe it. I believe it with them.
[23:56]
Caleb
Yeah.
[23:57]
Oha Lopez
I. Yeah. Spud buddy is a real. I feel a trickle on my neck.
[24:01]
Caleb
With that one also. I'm just gonna say it. A lot of the sport, like, when I was developing crushes for the first time in my life, a lot of the sporty guys were nicer than, like, the theater kids.
[24:11]
Oha Lopez
You're so fucking right.
[24:12]
Caleb
The theater kids were mean as fuck. I would talk to the theater kids and be like, I've never heard someone talk like this.
[24:19]
I was like, I really. I feel in my soul that I should be connected with you. But I've never heard such a hateful and beautifully, like, put together string of words.
[24:28]
Oha Lopez
Oh, 100.
[24:29]
Caleb
And I'm kind of missing hanging out with the football guys right now because they're stupid, but they're not.
[24:32]
Oha Lopez
They're like, more in their bodies, you know, they're more just about the experience of sort of goofily walking around and touching things.
[24:39]
Caleb
Yeah.
[24:40]
Oha Lopez
Theater kids are thinking too hard about every single fucking little thing. And I'm describing myself, by the way. Also, Rachel is in this case, she is the experiential body jock and I'm the theater kid.
[24:53]
Caleb
Yeah.
[24:53]
Oha Lopez
Rachel's like, this is our relationship.
[24:55]
Caleb
Rachel's like, truly showing love by, like, fixing your friends transmissions and shit. And you're like, sitting in the house analyzing.
[25:02]
Oha Lopez
Oh, absolutely. I got mad at her the other day because she was going to help a friend on a car. I go, what about our car? What about our fucking broken car?
[25:11]
Caleb
She's like, this is your friend, babe.
[25:13]
Oha Lopez
It is. It's true.
[25:15]
Caleb
Yeah.
[25:15]
Oha Lopez
I think you can be a little. I wouldn't say more stupid, but like, you can engage with the world in a lovely sort of like, open, easy way. It doesn't always have to be.
[25:27]
A criticism, not in a bad way, but just a sort of decryption of every little fucking interaction and every little thing, you know? Yeah.
[25:37]
But we've reached a lull in the conversation. Are you feeling it right now? Like, where do we go from here? Well, I just thought, what's next?
[25:45]
Caleb
That's so interesting. I was thinking in my head, what do you think is the best and worst thing about you? That's what was going on in my head. About yourself?
[25:52]
Oha Lopez
About myself, yeah. The best and worst thing about me. It's a really good question because I.
[25:57]
Caleb
Only think of good things when I think of you.
[25:58]
Oha Lopez
That's so sweet.
[25:59]
Caleb
Based on my deep love for you.
[26:06]
Oha Lopez
I'll start with best because. Yeah, it's just the number one good thing. Let's start with that one.
[26:14]
Caleb
Yeah, that one's fun to answer.
[26:15]
Oha Lopez
That one's fun to answer.
[26:16]
Caleb
And the other part sucks. The other one.
[26:17]
Oha Lopez
We'll see if we get to it. We'll see if I can sort of.
[26:20]
Caleb
Prolong and then see if we get back to worse. You know what's funny about me? I. Speaking of worst things about you.
[26:27]
Oha Lopez
Yeah.
[26:29]
Caleb
Not about you, about worst things about me.
[26:31]
Oha Lopez
Okay.
[26:32]
Caleb
Sometimes I can't help but when I picture people criticizing me, I can't help but to imagine that they had caveats. Have I said this on here before? Like sometimes, like, sometimes I'll be like, I'll be like, oh, I wonder if that person doesn't like me. And I'll be like, what would they say if they didn't like me? And then I'll imagine them saying like, he's so annoying, but he is funny.
[26:54]
Oha Lopez
So it's like the worst thing comes with still.
[26:57]
Caleb
Like, I imagine caveats sometimes when I imagine people criticizing me that I'm like that I'm like. They would be right to say that I am annoying, but I think they would have to admit that I am fun. You know what I mean? Or I'll like, sometimes my brain will just naturally create caveats.
[27:12]
Oha Lopez
Yeah, you. You want an out?
[27:14]
Caleb
My brain needs it.
[27:15]
Oha Lopez
Well, there's no absolutes. You're not always bad. You're not always good.
[27:18]
Caleb
Well, and I think it's because I think, I think it comes from a place of even the people dislike the most in the world. I do caveats for them.
[27:25]
Oha Lopez
Oh yeah.
[27:26]
Caleb
I. Not even in my own brain, I go like, God, that person is such a. But credit to them. They are a good painter, you know, or what. Or whatever the thing is.
[27:35]
Oha Lopez
Whatever the thing.
[27:35]
Caleb
Yeah, I do that.
[27:36]
Oha Lopez
I totally do that too. I, I definitely. I was just not to brand. But I was just reading a nun's book. Helen Prejean's book.
[27:45]
Caleb
Yes. And she a prison abolitionist. Yes.
[27:48]
Oha Lopez
Sorry to bring up prison abolition right.
[27:50]
Caleb
Now, but this is good.
[27:51]
Oha Lopez
All that to say is that if the worst dude a murderer and. And that she has found a way to unconditionally love that person. I go, okay, what can I bring about that in my life? How can I look at an and be like, okay, I know why you're an. The explanation helps. We don't need to hang out. But I see your value as a person.
[28:12]
Caleb
That's hard.
[28:13]
Oha Lopez
It's so hard. It's. I mean, especially now. It's so hard to look at people and think of like what you love about them when you hate them and they seem to hate you.
[28:22]
Caleb
But look, your sexual and reproductive health decisions, like abortion. Whoa, this one always sneaks up on me. Belong to you. Not some unqualified lawmakers, not some anti abortion rights organization and not some transphobic group. As the nation's leading provider of sexual and reproductive health care and sex education, Planned Parenthood is committed to serving people from all walks of life. No exceptions. But the attacks on our health care and our basic rights. They just don't stop. But you know what else doesn't stop? Planned Parenthood. Every year, Planned Parenthood Health Centers provide over 9 million services to more than 2 million patients. They give patients STI testing and treatments, Pap tests, breast exams, birth control, HPV vaccines and more, AKA essential super important healthcare. Despite serious threats to sexual health and reproductive care, Planned Parenthood never abandons their commitment to care. And together with people like you and me, they can fight every day to build the future we deserve. One where everyone can get the care they need, no matter who they are or where they live. Supporters like you power this work. Donate to Planned Parenthood now@planned parenthood.org defend folks I say it all the time. Aura Frames is the answer to every holiday gifting moment. Yeah, I can't stop saying that. Who wouldn't want the gift of seeing their loved ones smiling every single day? Never struggle again to find the perfect holiday gift. The great thing about giving an Aura Frame as a gift is it just makes the whole process so easy because they cross all the boxes. You want something thoughtful. Aura Frames. You want something functional. Aura Frames. Something timeless. Stop me if you've heard this before. Aura Frames. They give you access to unlimited free photos and videos. Just download the Aura app and connect to WI fi. And to once again make things easier for you this holiday season, every frame comes packaged in a premium gift box with no price tag. Don't wait. Win the holidays. I'm always trying to win the holidays. Win the holidays now with OR frames for a limited time. Save on the perfect gift by visiting oriframes.com to get 35 off of Aura's best selling Carver Matte frames. Name number one by Wirecutter by using promo code so true at checkout. That's auraframes.com promo code so true. This deal is exclusive to listeners and frames sell out fast, so order yours now to get it in time for the holidays. Support the show by mentioning us at checkout. Terms and conditions apply. Remember that doctor's appointment you were supposed to make a while ago.
[30:37]
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[31:56]
Oha Lopez
The best thing about me, just to really move through to that, I think I'm someone who is very inclusive. I really want to.
[32:07]
Bring people close and I desire that intimacy with everyone and I'm not afraid to go for it with people that I meet with, friends with friends. Friends. I'm a pursuer of intimacy and care and love and I love that about myself. And I think the friends that I.
[32:27]
Have come to me in a lot of different ways say how much they appreciate that closeness that I almost like demand of people that are in my life. It's like I want to know everything about you. I want to know everything, like what you're thinking about little things and big things. And I. Yeah, I pursue it like rabidly. It's where I get all of my energy. Is that.
[32:46]
Caleb
I think that's true about you.
[32:48]
Oha Lopez
That's very.
[32:48]
Caleb
I think that's deeply true about you. I think that's a beautiful one.
[32:50]
Oha Lopez
Thank you. Yeah, I love that about myself. And then I would say maybe my worst quality.
[32:55]
Caleb
Oh, we're doing it. Okay. Wow.
[32:56]
Oha Lopez
No, we're going.
[32:56]
Caleb
Oh, okay.
[32:57]
Oha Lopez
I love talking about myself, so this question is perfect.
[33:01]
I would say that the worst part of myself is I can be on the other side of the coin. Very judgmental and critical.
[33:09]
Caleb
Wow.
[33:10]
Oha Lopez
And that sometimes I can.
[33:15]
Take away the joy of moments.
[33:19]
By.
[33:22]
Criticizing things through the lens of my insecurity, my lack of knowledge, my like, desire to feel better about myself.
[33:30]
Caleb
Yeah.
[33:31]
Oha Lopez
And so sometimes I can tear Shit down in my brain and in my heart because I'm not feeling good about myself.
[33:37]
Caleb
Yeah.
[33:38]
Oha Lopez
So. And I have to really, I have to quiet that voice down.
[33:43]
Caleb
Interesting.
[33:44]
Oha Lopez
Quite often and it affects people negatively in my life, that criticism and that. Like.
[33:50]
Caleb
Yeah, that's interesting. I don't see that about you very often.
[33:53]
Oha Lopez
Well, I hide it so well.
[33:55]
Caleb
I know. Well that's nice though that the, the worst thing about you being like a bad day scenario rather than a constant through line is a nice thing. That means you're doing good work. That means that you're like you're establishing. Yeah. You know your stuff and you're like working on it and doing good.
[34:09]
Oha Lopez
Yeah. And I don't.
[34:12]
I don't know if you had this, but for many years thought I was terrible and a bad person and.
[34:16]
Caleb
Really.
[34:17]
Oha Lopez
Oh yeah. I spent probably until like maybe 27 really thinking the worst of myself. Like I was, oh, I, I, it was peaks of like sort of delusional charisma and then couldn't back it with any real substance of friendship. It was really hard. People would really like me when they first met me and then the relationship would peak at the beginning and eventually every single one of those friendships would. It was like they would get to know me and it was harder to be my friend.
[34:47]
Caleb
Why was that?
[34:48]
Oha Lopez
You know, I was a big liar and a thief and Yes. I, yeah.
[34:56]
Caleb
They all of my lying and stealing, of course.
[34:58]
Oha Lopez
Yes, yes, yes. I was big liar. A big sinner.
[35:00]
Caleb
Yeah.
[35:01]
Oha Lopez
No, not, I'm was a big like I think just toxic ass. Full toxic bitch. You know. And I was, it was also mired in a, in a lot of charisma. Yeah. In a lot of like dictatorship over my friendships. And it was. Yeah. Until I was probably about 27 or 28. Truly thieving and making excuses for it.
[35:24]
Caleb
Babe stopped stealing.
[35:25]
Oha Lopez
Oh, I stopped stealing. I think there was a little klepto style stuff going on.
[35:29]
Caleb
You know, I, I'm, I want to ask though, how did you. I'm, or I'm sure there are people listening to this that are relating to at least some piece of this. I don't know about the lying and the thieving, but how did you. I think more broadly like you identified that your relationships weren't going the way you wanted them to.
[35:48]
Oha Lopez
Yeah.
[35:49]
Caleb
Then you identify. You did. Probably the harder part, which is I think many people can identify like my life kind of isn't going the way I'd like it to go. Then you did the harder part of identifying your role in it. Which is one of the hardest parts of self improvement and happiness is realizing that you, you have a shared creation in every dynamic you're a part of, whether you like it or not. You're not a victim. You are playing a role in every dynamic that you're in, whether it's allowing bad behavior or participating in bad behavior. So you recognized your role in it and then you made a change. Was there a person that said something to you or a thing you read or like, what happened that helped you change the behavior that was making you unhappy? Do you know?
[36:26]
Oha Lopez
Oh, yeah.
[36:29]
I was.
[36:30]
Caleb
Is it really dark and deep?
[36:31]
Oha Lopez
No, it's not dark and deep. It's not dark and deep. It's. I. My friend James, who I love so much, he, I. He had this amp at my house and I couldn't pay my rent and I sold his amp and took the money and paid my rent.
[36:47]
Caleb
Yeah.
[36:47]
Oha Lopez
And it caused a ripple effect in my friend group at that time. People that were very close to me and all of them were like, hey, we just can't abide by this behavior. Yeah, we're done. And so you're right.
[36:58]
Caleb
That sucks. Yeah.
[36:59]
Oha Lopez
And so I lost my entire kind of close circle of friends in that moment at 27, 28. And they sort of created a lot of boundaries around me. And it was barbed wire boundaries too. It wasn't just like, you can't come around. It was like, get the fuck away. You know, and that really, you know, you're alone in a fuck, like in a room and you know, who do you call your mom? You know what I mean? You call your fucking mom because it's the only fucking person in your life that is gonna still talk to you at that point. And so I called my mom and she really honed in on this thing that I really have taken very seriously ever since, which is like the forgive yourself and then you can move on.
[37:44]
Caleb
Yeah.
[37:45]
Oha Lopez
Like. And I always got stuck, the wheels got stuck in the forgiving myself part. God, this is so self helpy, Caleb. But like, Trul, I don't now. I up, I go, I forgive myself. You up, move forward. You can make amends from that point on if you stick around and you're like, I did this thing and it was so up. Like, of course you're going to think about it and figure out what your part in it was. But don't let that get in the way of like actually making amends with people and changing things. I find that if you get too stuck in the, like, I'm a Up and I'm bad. That was. The shift is like, actually, I'm not bad. I forgive myself even if no one else does.
[38:21]
Caleb
Yeah.
[38:22]
Oha Lopez
And that really started a whole new era of my life. That was so much fucking fun.
[38:28]
Caleb
Well, you have such beautiful, deep, rich, varied friendships in your life now.
[38:33]
Oha Lopez
Absolutely.
[38:34]
Caleb
So it obviously worked. I think the thing you're talking about, though, of, am I a good person? Am I a bad person? I think about this a lot with, am I a happy person or not? Et cetera. The line of thinking of, am I X, y, or Z type of person is, to me, inherently negative. I don't really worry about if I'm a good or bad person. I worry about if I am doing good or bad. Sometimes we will all do bad, and sometimes we will all be mean, and sometimes we'll all be negative. Sometimes we'll all be critical or selfish or whatever. Those behaviors occur naturally, like in human life. That doesn't mean you are behaving selfishly on a Monday. Doesn't mean that every day, thenceforward, that you are a selfish person. Capital A, S, P. It just. You were selfish on Monday. And I. I don't know. The. The. The focus on. I think shifting the focus on from what type of person am I to how am I behaving Is way better because it allows you to be like, oh, I was kind of bad yesterday, or last, or. I've noticed that lately. I've shown up in X way in my friendships or whatever.
[39:34]
Oha Lopez
Oh, and to have a lovely friend who calls you and goes like, hey, I noticed you've been interrupting me a lot lately. I had a friend call me about that a couple months ago.
[39:42]
Caleb
Oh, my God.
[39:42]
Oha Lopez
She was like, hey, I just want to let you know you've been interrupting me a lot lately. She goes, I'm not mad or anything. I just want to let you know it's happened four or five times.
[39:50]
Caleb
Yeah.
[39:51]
Oha Lopez
And that's it. I just have that for you.
[39:54]
Caleb
I'm six.
[39:55]
Oha Lopez
I'm six.
[39:55]
Caleb
One half dozen, the other on that because.
[39:57]
Oha Lopez
Okay.
[39:58]
Caleb
Did you feel like you were interrupting them a lot? Do you feel like it was based in truth?
[40:02]
Oha Lopez
Yeah. There was something going on between us that, like. I'm gonna be honest. I felt like she was being a. She was just talking to Top.
[40:10]
Caleb
Yeah.
[40:11]
Oha Lopez
Talking to. Talking just to say stuff. Yeah. And sometimes when I feel like people are just, like, wanting to hear their own voice a lot.
[40:17]
Caleb
Yeah.
[40:17]
Oha Lopez
And I told this to her. I'll be like, let me redirect this a little bit. And this Is my organizational skills and benevolent manipulation. I could probably stop doing that. I don't need to do that all the time.
[40:30]
Caleb
The reason I'm. The reason that bumps me is because I think always you're welcome to voice any relationship I have in my life if I would welcome someone voicing their concern. I just have been in friendships sometimes that I've had to, like, not cut off, but, like, slow down or pull the brakes on a little bit that, like, I. I just won't engage in, like, constant evaluation and criticism. And so sometimes those things I'm like, Like, I feel like you've been cutting me off a lot lately. It's totally fine if I'm doing that and if I recognize the behavior is true, I'm happy to hear it and we'll change course. But sometimes I've been friends with people that are so therapized and so critical and constantly evaluating that I'm like. Like, you're not wrong. But if it comes up all the time, I'm gonna eventually get the vibe that we just aren't a fit. Like, there are just certain times that I'm like, I don't wanna hear from you anymore about your little evaluations and criticisms of our dynamic. At a certain point, you might just not like talking to me and we should stop doing it so much.
[41:27]
Oha Lopez
Yeah.
[41:27]
Caleb
Like, not every relationship is worth so much work.
[41:32]
Oha Lopez
That is. That's such a hard thing to learn too, because we, right now especially, I think, are taught, like, preserve the friendship, keep moving, move through stuff, work through stuff. And it's like, actually, you just have a nicer time. If we hang out less, to a point, less.
[41:46]
Caleb
There are some relationships. I think there are relationships. You'll identify them. You'll know what they are in your heart. There's no hard and fast rule, which is why I would never be like, don't tell me I'm interrupting you. Sometimes it's nice to hear those things. And I have friendships and, like, Holmes and I are very honest with each other. Holmes is the type of relationship that I've had for long enough and has been beautiful enough and we've been through enough that anything Holmes says to me about my behavior, I'm gonna listen. But then there are more, like, tertiary friendships that I'm like, damn. The last, like, six times we've talked, you've had some weird gripe about our dynamic. And whether it's valid or not, I just think we need to spend less time together. Like, maybe we're just not a match. And that is so fine.
[42:22]
Oha Lopez
It's so fine. Have you been able to say that to people and then react positively?
[42:26]
Caleb
I've done it both ways. Like, there have been times where I've naturally put distance between a relationship and they've. We've kind of tapered off a little bit and I haven't put words to it because they haven't asked. And I feel like, like sometimes that's generosity. Like, sometimes it's like it's your little white lie.
[42:39]
Oha Lopez
It's a different version of that of like, the distance can be enough.
[42:42]
Caleb
You don't want to hear that. Also, I don't owe you a thesis on why we're not talking as much lately. Everyone's busy and we're adults. Anytime someone asks, I will tell. If someone's like, hey, I feel like there's distance, I will absolutely be like, yes, I'm putting distance because you've been on my nerves. And every time we talk, I feel like it's a criticism and I'm just really not feeling it. And so that's what it is. And I've, I've distanced friendships and been like, hey, I just really think we're not on the same page. And it almost really never spawns from a criticism of our dynamic. It almost always is a recurring thing that I'm like, I'm not really digging the energy lately. And that's okay. Cold mornings, holiday plans. This is when I just want my wardrobe to be simple. Stuff that looks sharp, feels good, and things I'll actually wear. You know what? Maybe that's Quint's. And the bonus Quint's pieces make great gifts too. This season's lineup is simple but smart and Easy with Quint's $50 Mongolian cashmere sweaters that feel like an everyday luxury and wool coats that are equal parts stylish and durable. Their denim nails, the fit in everyday comfort, all at a fraction of what you'd expect to pay. By partnering directly with ethical factories and top artisans, Quince cuts out the middle. You don't. You don't partner with artisans directly much anymore. That's not nice. Quince cuts out the middlemen to deliver premium quality at half the cost of other high end brands. So you can give luxury quality pieces without the luxury price tag. Before all the busy holiday travel, be sure to snatch up one of their Napa leather passport holders. I got one last year and I have been living large ever since. Get your wardrobe sorted and your gift list handled with Quint. Put your hair in a messy bun and handle it with quints don't wait. Go to quints.com showtru for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N-C e.com so true. Free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com so true. Yeah, I would say, by the way, maybe this has happened.
[44:39]
Six times in my life.
[44:40]
Oha Lopez
Yeah. Not that much.
[44:42]
Caleb
Yeah, this doesn't come up a lot.
[44:43]
Oha Lopez
Yeah, I feel the same way. It doesn't come up too much. I feel like I've gotten good at being like, I'm gonna take a little step. You're a dinner friend. You're not a come over to my house and hang out friend.
[44:52]
Caleb
Yeah.
[44:52]
Oha Lopez
You're a hangout with a group of people friend. You're not a one on one friend. It's so cool though to know the difference because I, I feel like you can get along with so many more people and enjoy so many more people by keeping them at the right sort of like.
[45:06]
Caleb
Yeah.
[45:06]
Oha Lopez
Distance.
[45:07]
Caleb
And also there's a real art and importance, I think, to learning who you should be taking notes from.
[45:13]
Oha Lopez
Yeah, I don't like. What do you mean by that?
[45:15]
Caleb
I don't need notes from everybody.
[45:16]
Oha Lopez
Yeah.
[45:16]
Caleb
I don't need to hear what everyone thinks of my art or behavior or work or attitude or disposition. I don't. Not everyone's notes are valuable.
[45:26]
Oha Lopez
Yeah.
[45:26]
Caleb
Like there just are people that I meet and we get into like we're in a work relationship or a friendship or a romantic like, entanglement. And sometimes you hear the note and you go like, oh, I actually don't need to hear notes from you because I actually don't like the way that you're moving or I don't think that your notes are valid. I think about this a lot more.
[45:43]
Oha Lopez
In a workshop so much right now. Oh, direct hit.
[45:46]
Caleb
Really?
[45:47]
Oha Lopez
Oh, absolutely.
[45:47]
Caleb
We've made contact.
[45:48]
Oha Lopez
We've made contact. It is like vibrating inside of me right now. And literally I'm going, I know what to do about this particular situation. I'm going through one hunt. Very helpful.
[45:58]
Caleb
Well, you think about it. Why would every note from every person be valuable? Would you let a stranger on the street tell you about yourself?
[46:03]
Oha Lopez
Like, no, no.
[46:04]
Caleb
Every note is not valuable.
[46:05]
Oha Lopez
Although they do.
[46:06]
Caleb
They do.
[46:07]
Oha Lopez
Of course, they love strangers love to say a little thing to me. Sometimes same. Sometimes it's nice, sometimes it's mean. Sometimes it's nice.
[46:14]
Caleb
Sometimes it's nice. Sometimes.
[46:16]
Oha Lopez
Yeah. I go, I don't need you a video. But thank you.
[46:19]
Caleb
Yeah. Thank you for sharing it.
[46:20]
Oha Lopez
Thank you for sharing that.
[46:21]
Caleb
I think it comes up more for me in a work context where I'm like, sometimes people want to give you notes that I'm like, well, you haven't made anything that I love, so why. So I actually don't want to hear from you about my work. And there's zero malice in that. It's just like you're doing something different than I'm doing. I'm not going to take notes from somebody who hasn't made something that I love, because in what world would that make sense? And I think sometimes when you're a nice person or you're a kind person, we want to be like. We want to hear everything with an open heart and keep the heart open. But sometimes openness doesn't mean. Sometimes openness means letting a thing in and letting it walk around for a second and then releasing it.
[46:59]
Oha Lopez
Yeah.
[46:59]
Caleb
Openness doesn't mean that you hang on to anything that anyone says to you.
[47:03]
Oha Lopez
Yeah, it's. I think that, you know, when I said the thing that I like about myself, the intimacy piece, is that and the inclusivity piece, my, like, DNA, my brainwaves are like, want to be open to everyone. I want to let people in because that's how I sort through like. Like. Like, who can be close. But I do think that. That there is a level of, like, exhaustion that comes from that, like, desire and from letting people into that way. And I do. I'm very much, what do you think? What do you need? What do you want? And it causes me trouble, of course.
[47:35]
Caleb
Yeah.
[47:36]
Oha Lopez
Not big trouble, but a little bit of trouble.
[47:38]
Caleb
Well, that's the other thing is, like, I don't know. My life is pretty. Not big trouble, but a little trouble is the story of my stuff where I'm like. Like, my life is pretty cool. My relationships are, like, in really good places. I mostly don't have conflict. God, in my early 20s, I had some friendships that I really had to let go. Like, those six people are all pretty much from my early 20s.
[47:58]
Oha Lopez
Yeah.
[47:59]
Caleb
That, like, I just had really turbulent relationships. And now I'm at a place in my life where I'm like, that was crazy. I actually don't have turbulence in my life like that.
[48:07]
Oha Lopez
Me. Neat. If there is a level of turbulence or discomfort in my life, it's like, because I don't have it that often, it's like a fucking light focus on the discomfort and the problem, and it becomes like, I go, why is that happening. And I have to figure it out and try to push it away or try to solve it, really. But, yeah, I feel the same way.
[48:32]
Caleb
See, that's interesting because I. Because my. My work life and my love life and my family life and my friend life pretty much mostly cool. Like, I really don't. Like I said, I don't have a lot of, like. Like, huge conflicts or crazy mess. So I do sometimes feel myself getting sucked into a small thing and getting really upset about it.
[48:49]
Oha Lopez
Yes.
[48:50]
Caleb
And I have to stop myself and go, like, wait, this actually isn't that big of a deal. And I'm kind of giving it more weight than it needs to. And, like, actually, everything's pretty okay and I can relax.
[49:00]
Oha Lopez
Yeah.
[49:00]
Caleb
But I have a tendency to get, like. It's almost like you want to be invested in something. You're like. You're like, oh, I.
[49:06]
Oha Lopez
Well, drama is, like, fuels.
[49:07]
Caleb
Yeah.
[49:08]
Oha Lopez
A little bit of drama when I'm. Don't have any. When I'm. Drama dry. Yeah. I will lock on to that and try to.
[49:14]
Caleb
You feel yourself on your seventh phone call to a friend about it, and you're like, I'm not getting anything from this.
[49:18]
Oha Lopez
That is how you know it's too much. You go, wow, I've talked about this five times in the last, like, three days.
[49:25]
Caleb
Yeah.
[49:25]
Oha Lopez
But that is a way of. You're exercising the problem. You're just, like, framing it over and over and over and over again until you get tired of yourself, and then it gets removed from the doctor.
[49:35]
Caleb
There's an interesting thing when you're retelling drama, the first, like, three or four people you talk to about it, you're finding the beats.
[49:42]
Oha Lopez
You're finding the beats.
[49:43]
Caleb
Barely. You're, like, finding the beats where you're like, okay, that part needed to go a little later. And the reveal will seem crazier if I do it this way. And then, like, the fifth or sixth person you talk to about it, you go like, I found the story.
[49:52]
Oha Lopez
Yeah.
[49:53]
Caleb
I know what the drama is. You know?
[49:55]
Oha Lopez
And you know what the most fascinating emotional parts of it are. You know, who's the villain? But also, you have caveats for the villain.
[50:02]
Caleb
Caveats for the villain. That's always important.
[50:04]
Oha Lopez
Caveats for the villain.
[50:05]
Caleb
Yeah.
[50:05]
Oha Lopez
Yes.
[50:05]
Caleb
You've made yourself the most reasonable character the drama. Yes.
[50:08]
Oha Lopez
But you admit to something.
[50:10]
Caleb
You admit to your fault in the drama, because you know that.
[50:12]
Oha Lopez
That's right. Maybe that's how you become the way.
[50:15]
Caleb
To tell the story. God. And then if you stop right there, if you stop and let it go and move on or go to the person. Or when you. If you stop right there, life is good. On the seventh or eighth retell, when you've already nailed the story, you've already figured out your feelings about it, there's nothing else to really tell.
[50:29]
Oha Lopez
You're telling the same person again.
[50:31]
Caleb
Yeah.
[50:32]
Oha Lopez
You're telling one person, and that person is on the other end of it. Just, just. Yeah, like just taking it.
[50:38]
Caleb
Yeah.
[50:39]
Oha Lopez
You gotta stop.
[50:40]
Caleb
That's when you. Ideally, you stop before that, but if you catch yourself there, then it's like, you really got to move on.
[50:45]
Oha Lopez
Yeah. And if you write it, it only takes, like, one or two times, which is sickening too.
[50:49]
Caleb
Yeah.
[50:49]
Oha Lopez
It's like, just write it.
[50:50]
Caleb
Yeah. But I've definitely told friends, I can't talk about this anymore.
[50:54]
Oha Lopez
Oh, yeah, me too.
[50:55]
Caleb
I've said, hey, I'm so sorry. I don't want to hear about that conflict anymore. That's crazy. Your coworker sounds like a. I'm done hearing about it. I love you to death. I gave, I gave. I did my part. I nodded so emphatically through the first. On the fifth one, we're gonna have to do solutions or move on.
[51:10]
Oha Lopez
They find little colors, little flavors, though, in the fifth, they're still not landing on the stories, but I need to move on. We gotta move on.
[51:17]
Caleb
Yeah.
[51:18]
Oha Lopez
Do you, do you find yourself. Are you good at knowing if you're talking too much? Do you ever find yourself in that situation?
[51:26]
Caleb
I don't think that's one of my problems. I have, I have problems, but I don't think that they're. I don't think that me talking too much is usually one of them.
[51:34]
Oha Lopez
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[51:36]
Caleb
I, I, I do, sir. I, I've, I have talked too much, but I think I'm pretty good at asking questions and moving on. Yeah, I, at least I hope so, because it's one of my biggest pet peeves.
[51:48]
Oha Lopez
When other people talk too much, when.
[51:49]
Caleb
Somebody is on, like, The, I'll say, 23rd minute of a story that should have been six minutes, I feel myself being like, right, right, right, right, right. And anyway, anyway, anyway. What's everyone's favorite color? Like? I'm like, let's get, get the off of this.
[52:02]
Oha Lopez
It's a redirect.
[52:03]
Caleb
Yes.
[52:04]
Oha Lopez
You have to redirect because you are counting the beats in the room. And, you know, it's been talked about.
[52:08]
Caleb
For too long, and I'm feel. I'm like, the craziest thing to me is I'm like, how are you not feeling?
[52:12]
Oha Lopez
How are you.
[52:13]
Caleb
That person checked their phone three times. That person just went to the bathroom even though they were in there 10 minutes ago.
[52:17]
Oha Lopez
It's the eyes glazed over at the party. Release them.
[52:20]
Caleb
Release them.
[52:21]
Oha Lopez
Release them, baby.
[52:22]
Caleb
We're releasing them.
[52:23]
Oha Lopez
We're releasing you.
[52:24]
Caleb
The power of release.
[52:25]
Oha Lopez
The power of let you. Yeah. But again, the caveat.
[52:28]
Caleb
Yeah. I'm trying to think of the last time I talked too much.
[52:31]
Oha Lopez
Oh, yeah.
[52:32]
Caleb
Last time I watched someone's eyes glaze over when I was talking. I don't know if I can place it. When was it? When was it?
[52:40]
Did I have. I know I remember this.
[52:42]
Oha Lopez
I don't know why I'm thinking. I'm going, when was it?
[52:43]
Caleb
When did he do it? I remember this sensation sometime in the last two months. I remember I had the sensation of saying something that didn't go over and feeling embarrassed, but I can't remember what it was. But that's a nice thing about my brain.
[52:59]
Oha Lopez
Yeah.
[52:59]
Caleb
My brain will move on.
[53:01]
Oha Lopez
Oh, yeah, My brain.
[53:02]
Caleb
I've trained myself to be like. To be like. That didn't happen.
[53:05]
Oha Lopez
Do you do that little thing where you kind of. Yeah. You kind of trail off right at the end, or do you go, I'm losing them?
[53:12]
Caleb
But it depends on if I've walked in. Because a lot of times what will happen is you realize you're in a circle of seven, and you realize you've lost six of them, but you find the one person, and then you loan.
[53:23]
Oha Lopez
In on that one.
[53:24]
Caleb
But. But. But anyway. And you're like. And so then they're. They're your target.
[53:28]
Oha Lopez
Oh, my God. Can I. Okay, this happened to me recently, and. Okay. I was in a group of seven or eight people.
[53:33]
Caleb
Yeah.
[53:34]
Oha Lopez
And there were two very powerful speakers who did not want to stop speaking.
[53:37]
Caleb
I remember you talking about this.
[53:38]
Oha Lopez
Yeah. And I want to tell you this, because this is so stupid, but these two people would then realize that neither of them were going to stop talking. Right. And so they would each individually attach to the person closest to them and continue speaking, creating what I can only call a fractal of division, in which now half of the group is talking, is holding court with this person, and the other half of the group is holding court with this person, essentially. And I'm observing the entire thing happen, going, I just want to be together, guys. I just. And I keep trying to push the two groups together. They were too powerful. Yeah, they were too powerful. And they did not notice that they were doing it over and over and over again.
[54:18]
Caleb
You know, what can I say? I'm happy for them. That sounds like they had a beautiful, even.
[54:22]
Oha Lopez
I bet they had a great time.
[54:23]
Caleb
I bet they went to bed feeling like, what a night.
[54:25]
Oha Lopez
What a beautiful evening.
[54:27]
Caleb
Isn't that nice?
[54:28]
Oha Lopez
It is. Well, I do think delusion is correct, and there are ways in which you and I are delusional and we don't totally know about it yet. And I can't wait to find out.
[54:36]
Caleb
I know that I'm delusional.
[54:37]
Oha Lopez
Oh, it's part of life.
[54:39]
Caleb
And by the way, I know that I'm annoying.
[54:41]
Oha Lopez
Yeah.
[54:42]
Caleb
You think I don't know that I'm annoying? Oh, of course I'm annoying. Listen to me. Yeah, I'm fucking annoying. But it's awesome the way that I'm annoying. If it's a beautiful type of annoying, it's gorgeous. No, I am annoying. I. I'm happy to be annoying, though. I'm fine with it. Because if the alternative is being bored, like, I do need to remind myself sometimes that when people are annoyed with me, I'm like, only boring people are, like, unobjectionable all the time. I don't want to be a boring person. I would rather be annoying.
[55:13]
Oha Lopez
Yeah. Yeah.
[55:14]
Caleb
That's my take about me.
[55:15]
Oha Lopez
That's really beautiful.
[55:16]
Caleb
The best thing about myself is that I am loyal. I think that's maybe my favorite.
[55:22]
Oha Lopez
Ask it back. Thank you for offering.
[55:24]
Caleb
I'm giving it because I felt bad for asking you and you being the only one who answered.
[55:27]
Oha Lopez
I touch your hand so many times. I just feel very close to you today.
[55:29]
Caleb
Today.
[55:30]
Oha Lopez
Yes. I mean, yeah. Especially Say it today. Okay, stop it.
[55:33]
Caleb
Beautiful. I feel I like that I'm loyal. I think that's something nice about me. I feel like I really give people. I give people chances.
[55:42]
Maybe to a fault sometimes, but I like it. I wouldn't change it. And then my least favorite thing about myself. Oh, there are a couple. Or maybe the. The most difficult thing about myself.
[55:57]
I'm rigid about what I like. Things need to be my way.
[56:00]
Oha Lopez
Oh, wait, that's one of mine too.
[56:02]
Caleb
I know. Well, you and I have a lot of the same ones. Things need to be my way. And it's tough because it was really good for me at my job.
[56:09]
Oha Lopez
Job.
[56:09]
Caleb
I have taste, and so it really works for me at work sometimes. Not for you guys, but. Shout out.
[56:14]
Oha Lopez
Yeah, it's really hard, but we.
[56:16]
Caleb
My thing. Things that I make work because I know how I want them and. But then it carries into other aspects of my life where I'm like, I really could be less rigid. And I'll feel myself being rigid, and I'll feel myself being, like, wanting things my way and being annoyed that it's not going exactly my way. And I'll feel myself in it being like, God, you're being annoying right now. And I can't stop. I'm like, I don't care. It should have gone my way.
[56:39]
Oha Lopez
But you also. There is this thing, right. Which is that you're right a lot, and I'm right a lot. Listen, we can't fucking help it.
[56:47]
Caleb
Chances shaking.
[56:48]
Oha Lopez
It's disgusting.
[56:50]
Caleb
Thank you so much for coming back on. This has been so true. We gotta go.
[56:54]
Oha Lopez
It's disgusting that we're right a lot.
[56:58]
Caleb
But you know what? Okay. Yes, I do identify as someone who's right a lot.
[57:03]
Oha Lopez
That's the most annoying thing in the world.
[57:05]
Caleb
But I will say it's not that important to be right all the time.
[57:09]
Oha Lopez
Agreed.
[57:09]
Caleb
And I need to relax.
[57:11]
Oha Lopez
Yeah.
[57:11]
Caleb
Here's the deal. Sometimes when you're right, you could also just shut the fuck up.
[57:15]
Oha Lopez
Yeah.
[57:15]
Caleb
And Caleb has to internalize that note.
[57:18]
Oha Lopez
Yeah.
[57:18]
Caleb
Like, sometimes you are right. And you also could shut the fuck up.
[57:21]
Oha Lopez
I have absolutely am in an era right now where I'm not giving feedback to people about even sometimes when they ask me, really, I'm going opt out. Really, I'm opting out because I don't. The energy that I can't spend it on, that. They're gonna learn that lesson on their own eventually. They will get there, and maybe another person will help them. Today, it won't be me.
[57:44]
Caleb
Do you know what I feel like in this conversation?
[57:45]
Oha Lopez
What?
[57:46]
Caleb
Did you ever see. I talk about this a lot. Did you ever see that clip of Maya Angelou and Oprah Winfrey in pajamas in bed together? Do y' all know what I'm talking about? There's a clip of Maya Angelou and Oprah Winfrey wearing pajamas in bed together. And it's that clip, if you've ever seen it, where Maya Angelou goes, goes. When people show you who they are, believe them. And Oprah goes, believe them. And they're like. They're like being so girls at a sleepover in the most beautiful way. And I. Sometimes when I'm really locked in with a friend, I feel that way.
[58:17]
Oha Lopez
Yeah.
[58:17]
Caleb
And that's us right now. I love that we're in pj's in the bed.
[58:20]
Oha Lopez
We're in pj's in the bed.
[58:21]
Caleb
And it's. By the way, that conversation is beautiful. If Anyone hasn't heard it, you should go listen to it. But they're like, so. That moment between them is so awesome and electric and you really feel like they're locked in. And that's how I feel with you today.
[58:31]
Oha Lopez
That's how I feel.
[58:32]
Caleb
Oh, what's so true to you?
[58:34]
Oha Lopez
Lesbians can say, thank you.
[58:38]
Caleb
Thank you.
[58:39]
Oha Lopez
We can say it. We can say it's the funniest word in the dictionary.
[58:44]
Caleb
Yes, you can.
[58:44]
Oha Lopez
It's the greatest word that's ever existed. Lesbians can say, we've done a lot for you guys. Yes, we were. Okay, you guys were the aids. We were at the hospital.
[58:52]
Caleb
We were the nurses. We could say, yeah, you were at the hospital.
[58:55]
Oha Lopez
What do you think? Made the quilt. Yes, we made the quilt.
[58:58]
Caleb
Lesbians were at the hospitals and made the quilt.
[59:00]
Oha Lopez
We've done a lot for you guys. We are the emotional backbone of all of. We can say. You can say it.
[59:07]
Caleb
We can say we're bleeping all of these, of course.
[59:08]
Oha Lopez
But yes, you have to be pure of heart to say a slur now. Yes, that is how I feel.
[59:12]
Caleb
Yes.
[59:12]
Oha Lopez
If you're going to say a slur, it has to come up, like, from a place of pureness, of heart. And I am pure at heart. And I'm allowed to say. And I can see those little gay boys eyes twitching when I say it. Okay. And I say, take it.
[59:23]
Caleb
Do you know how warm.
[59:24]
Oha Lopez
Take it.
[59:26]
Caleb
Do you know how warm I feel when I hear you say the F slide? It warms me. And by the way, I'm not going to stop doing it even if you say no. But do you mind that I say the diesler?
[59:33]
Oha Lopez
I would love for you. Thank you. It is a beautiful word. It's been retooken.
[59:37]
Caleb
I love saying.
[59:37]
Oha Lopez
It's been taken.
[59:38]
Caleb
Queer people. Here's what I want to say to queer people.
[59:41]
Oha Lopez
Go off. Tell them.
[59:42]
Caleb
Queer people. Queer people, listen up.
[59:45]
Oha Lopez
We talked to thin people earlier. Now it's thin people.
[59:48]
Caleb
We talk to you now. Queer people. We are supposed to be making fun of each other. The other people are not supposed to be making fun of us. Us, we're supposed to kill them when they. When straight people make fun of us, we're supposed to kill them when we make fun of each other. That is what we're supposed to be doing.
[60:02]
Oha Lopez
That's right.
[60:03]
Caleb
That is what queerness is. I am, like, a little tired of these Tinder queers.
[60:07]
Oha Lopez
The preciousness is who can't hear a.
[60:09]
Caleb
Single thing about themselves. No, they're like, the way that you invalidated. Shut up. I'm gonna do it again. Shut up. Like we're supposed. I love you. I wanna grab these Tinder queers by the face and I wanna say I love you. And that's why I'm doing this.
[60:25]
I am seeing you and I'm making fun of your outfit because I love you.
[60:29]
Oha Lopez
That's right. And I want you to. By the way, the first thing you said was to me when I walked in the room. Wow. I've never seen you in clashing patterns before. Duh.
[60:36]
Caleb
It's all you wear. I fucking know it's all you wear. And I love that about you. But that's a love.
[60:43]
Oha Lopez
It's a love. And I never feel more seen than when somebody is roasting me. Well, never.
[60:48]
Caleb
If I walked into a room and you said. And you. And you called me and you're like, hey, here comes this fat. I would be like, oh, God, it's so good to be back with my friends. I would feel so seen by that. And it feels like an ancestral communion with queer people before us.
[61:02]
Oha Lopez
It really is.
[61:03]
Caleb
Oh, that's beautiful.
[61:05]
Oha Lopez
Thank you.
[61:05]
Caleb
I have a game for you. Yeah, maybe, maybe. By the way, maybe my favorite so true of all time that you just did.
[61:10]
Oha Lopez
Oh my God, that's so sweet.
[61:12]
Caleb
That was beautiful. Are you ready?
[61:13]
Oha Lopez
I'm ready.
[61:13]
Caleb
I'm gonna read you 15 statements. Oha. And by the way, we're looking for a sponsor for this segment. Segment. If any, if any, brands out there.
[61:20]
Oha Lopez
Want to contact us out there, we're.
[61:22]
Caleb
Considering branding the True False segment. And why I love that. Because I have a mortgage. Okay, I'm gonna read you 15 statements.
[61:30]
Oha Lopez
I'm ready.
[61:30]
Caleb
You're gonna tell me as quickly as you can. Ohoff. What I just said is true or false. And if you get 10 or more correct, we are going to give you 50 US dollars.
[61:36]
Oha Lopez
Oh, my God. Okay. Amazing. I could use that.
[61:39]
Caleb
And imagine if I had said, like, we're gonna give you a Hyundai Sonata. You know, that could be good.
[61:42]
Oha Lopez
I actually do need a Hyundai Sonata.
[61:44]
Caleb
You do.
[61:44]
Oha Lopez
I really do. Yeah.
[61:46]
Caleb
Hyundai. Reach out. Okay. You ready? Ready.
[61:47]
Oha Lopez
Yes.
[61:48]
Caleb
The main character in the land before time's name is Littlefoot.
[61:51]
Oha Lopez
True.
[61:51]
Caleb
True. Gordon Ramsay was born in Scotland.
[61:53]
Oha Lopez
True.
[61:54]
Caleb
True. The microwave oven was invented in 1845.
[61:57]
Oha Lopez
False. False.
[61:58]
Caleb
It was 1945. Friendster is older than MySpace.
[62:01]
Oha Lopez
True.
[62:02]
Caleb
True. Pringle is a Greek word for tube.
[62:04]
Oha Lopez
No.
[62:04]
Caleb
False. The movie 8 Mile is three hours long.
[62:08]
Oha Lopez
False.
[62:08]
Caleb
False. An hour and 50 minutes. Houston was once the capital of Texas.
[62:12]
Oha Lopez
False.
[62:13]
Caleb
True. The Chicago River. The first one you miss is a Houston.
[62:16]
Oha Lopez
I know. And I'm literally from Houston. I'm so sorry, boys. I love you, Gu. So much.
[62:19]
Caleb
The Chicago river is longer than the Missouri River.
[62:23]
Oha Lopez
False.
[62:24]
Caleb
False. You don't actually need a stamp to mail a letter.
[62:28]
Oha Lopez
False.
[62:29]
Caleb
False. Six vice presidents have been from Illinois.
[62:32]
Oha Lopez
Truth.
[62:32]
Caleb
False. Nancy Pelosi has been to every continent.
[62:37]
Oha Lopez
False.
[62:37]
Caleb
False. Burger King was originally called Insta Burger King.
[62:41]
Oha Lopez
False.
[62:41]
Caleb
True. Lemons float, but limes sink.
[62:47]
Oha Lopez
True.
[62:49]
Caleb
Are you sure?
[62:51]
Oha Lopez
False.
[62:51]
Caleb
It's true.
[62:53]
Anne Hathaway's mother invented the Bowflex machine.
[62:56]
Oha Lopez
It's that false.
[62:57]
Caleb
False. The longest English word is 189,819 letters long.
[63:01]
Oha Lopez
False.
[63:02]
Caleb
True. How'd she do? Wow.
[63:07]
Oha Lopez
Hyundai Sonata.
[63:08]
Caleb
Hyundai Sonata coming to your driveway.
[63:11]
Oha Lopez
Bless.
[63:12]
Caleb
Say that.
[63:15]
That was beautiful.
[63:16]
Oha Lopez
Thank you.
[63:17]
Caleb
Oha. We just love you so much.
[63:19]
Oha Lopez
I love you back.
[63:20]
Caleb
I think we've done a podcast. My love.
[63:21]
Oha Lopez
We've done it. Thank you guys for having me.
[63:22]
Caleb
Do you want to tell people where they can find you and how they can support you?
[63:25]
Oha Lopez
Yeah. You can find me at Oha Lopez on Instagram. H, O, J, A, L, O, P.
[63:31]
Caleb
E, Z. I think it's Aloha Oha. Right?
[63:33]
Oha Lopez
I changed it.
[63:34]
Caleb
What? Oh, you.
[63:35]
Oha Lopez
You changed the.
[63:35]
Caleb
The handle.
[63:36]
Oha Lopez
Stop. You're calling me out.
[63:37]
Caleb
No, I thought you were just saying your name, but you changed the handle.
[63:40]
Oha Lopez
I changed the handle handle because I'm not a Pacific Islander.
[63:45]
Caleb
Right.
[63:46]
Oha Lopez
I have no claim on Aloha.
[63:48]
Caleb
This is sending shockwaves.
[63:49]
Oha Lopez
It's sending shockwave. I've had it since I was 19 years old. And literally two months ago, I changed it to at Oja Lopez.
[63:56]
Caleb
Oh, we love you so much. Thank you for doing it.
[63:57]
Oha Lopez
I love you, angel. Touch my hand again. Love you.
[64:00]
Caleb
Ciaballa, my love.
[64:01]
Oha Lopez
Bye.
[64:01]
Caleb
We would make beautiful babies together.
[64:02]
Oha Lopez
Oh, I've told you this.
[64:03]
Caleb
Yeah. Let's end it here and talk about it off camera. That was a headgum podcast with stays.
[64:09]
Oha Lopez
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