So True with Caleb Hearon – Episode Summary

Podcast: So True with Caleb Hearon
Host: Caleb Hearon
Episode: Holmes Returns
Date: October 23, 2025
Guest: Holmes

Overview

In this heartfelt and characteristically sharp episode, Caleb welcomes comedian Holmes back to the show for a deeply candid, at times hilarious, and always insightful conversation. They explore themes of sobriety, mental health, body image, societal expectations, friendship dynamics, aging, and contemporary politics, all through the lens of their personal experiences and distinctive comedic rapport.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Sobriety, Vices & Self-Medication

• Holmes' Relationship to Drinking:

  • Holmes opens up about reduced drinking and the spectrum of moderation versus abstinence. The pressures of all-or-nothing thinking in relation to vices are explored.
    • "Sometimes I'm in a room that's so fudgeing, like, loud and overwhelming...it would just help a little bit." – Holmes ([03:21])
    • "No one called you an alcoholic. You called yourself one because you wanted to solve some stuff." – Holmes ([03:26])

• Alternative Vices:

  • Holmes notes shifting between vices (e.g., from alcohol to weed) and the challenge of moderation.
  • Caleb discusses food as a comfort and occasional vice ("Food is the most conscious choice that I make..." – Caleb, [06:07]).

• On Attending AA and the Social Dynamics There:

  • Holmes humorously describes AA meetings as "a horny environment" ([04:22]), noting attendees’ search for connection after giving up drinking.

2. Body Image, Weight, and Societal Pressures

• Dieting, Weight Stigma & Family Stories:

  • Holmes recalls the impact of her mother's experiences with fatphobia and the cruelty of family weight-related jokes ([09:11]).
  • Both comedians criticize the commodification of weight loss and how it ties to capitalist systems:
    • "The shame that is around weight stuff for me is really just tied to money." – Holmes ([10:28])

• Fatness in Culture and Comedy:

  • Caleb unpacks the incentives and emotional complexity around public figures losing weight and how thinness is seen as an "accomplishment" ([13:06]).
  • “It's silly to get validation for losing weight. I'm sorry, it is.” – Caleb ([14:38])
  • Discussion around appropriate responses from friends when someone’s weight changes, emphasizing check-ins and care ([15:23]).

3. Mental Health & Pharmacology

• Medication Use and Its Limitations:

  • Holmes shares her experience going off of Zoloft after 10 years, discussing societal over-reliance on medication to numb systemic sadness ([18:55]).
    • “A lot of feelings of sadness I am having are like, really not chemical imbalance. They're really valid." – Holmes ([19:22])
  • Caleb reflects on the well-intentioned yet at times gaslighting push for universal happiness:
    • “Happy as a state of being, as a description of a person...that's not how people work.” – Caleb ([20:28])

• Therapy and Societal Issues:

  • Both speakers draw a line between needing medication for chemical reasons versus medicating away collective grief and anxiety stemming from social problems.

• Exercise, Movement, and Body Connection:

  • Holmes notes reclaiming exercise for pleasure and mental health rather than punitive weight loss ([23:00]).

4. Friendship, Honesty, and Group Dynamics

• Holmes’ Role as the Group's Truth-Teller:

  • Caleb highlights Holmes’ tendency to call out issues directly, even if it’s socially awkward.
    • “One of my favorite things that you do...if there's something in a group of friends that desperately needs to be said...Holmes just in the group will go like, ‘You have an eating disorder.’” – Caleb ([16:12])

• On Romanticizing Friendship:

  • Holmes asks Caleb: “Do you...intentionally...make your friendships have a level of romance to them?" ([35:47])
  • Caleb: “I think there are romance in my friendships, but I don’t...I think that what you’re keying in on is just that...our friendship is romantic.” ([36:36])

5. Technology and Modern Life

• Would You Undo Phones?
  • Both long for a less connected, less surveilled life; agree the BlackBerry era should've been the cell phone endpoint ([44:47]-[45:13]).
    • “The BlackBerry should have been the end of it...We didn’t need to know about fucking CEOs.” – Caleb ([45:04])

6. Politics, Hope, and the Future

• On Billionaires, Organizing, and Hope:

  • The two critique billionaire influence, lament the lack of working-class political leaders, and reflect on cycles of political hope and despair ([10:28], [57:13]).
  • Holmes expresses optimism for "people power" and change: “I feel really excited...that I know we are going to get through this. I have hope finally again.” ([47:22])

• Political Figures:

  • Praise for Jasmine Crockett and AOC’s approachability and firebrand nature. Frustration with politicians like Gavin Newsom, especially regarding constant requests for donations.

7. Personal Anecdotes and Notable Family Stories

• Holmes’ Dad:

  • Touching stories demonstrate Holmes’ respect for her father's ability to change his mind and admit when he’s wrong ([29:37]-[30:19]).
    • “He is always, like, just...actually learns and changes his mind.” – Holmes ([29:58])

• Body Positivity and Aging:

  • Closing reflections center around embracing aging, debunking fears around it, and appreciating the wisdom it brings ([68:28]-[69:48]):
    • “I fucking love getting older. And aging rocks.” – Holmes ([68:47])

• Friendship and Parenting:

  • Discussion on the evolution of parent-child relationships and the possibility of parenthood, with Holmes expressing fascination about pregnancy and surrogacy ([60:12]-[61:12]).

8. Rapid-Fire True or False Game

• Holmes participates in a humorous and slightly disastrous rapid-fire trivia segment, reflecting both wit and fallibility ([63:27]-[67:17]).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Person who definitely doesn't have a drinking problem. Since February, I've had four...” – Caleb ([03:16])
• “The shame that is around weight stuff for me is really just tied to money.” – Holmes ([10:28])
• "It's silly to get validation for losing weight. I'm sorry, it is." – Caleb ([14:38])
• "I do want to validate the people who are like, I wish I wasn't spending more...Meds cost money...we're telling like broke people to pay more money to feel less sad about things that shouldn't be going on at all." – Holmes ([21:15])
• "Sometimes if there's something in a group of friends that desperately needs to be said...Holmes just in the group will go like, 'You have an eating disorder.'" – Caleb ([16:12])
• “Do you...make sure your friendships have a level of romance to them?” – Holmes ([35:47])
• “He is always, like, just...actually learns and changes his mind.” – Holmes, on her dad ([29:58])
• “The BlackBerry should have been the end of it.” – Caleb ([44:47])
• “I fucking love getting older. And aging rocks.” – Holmes ([68:47])

Timestamps for Important Segments

| Segment/Topic | Timestamp | |-------------------------------------------------------|------------| | Holmes’ sobriety journey, vices, AA experiences | 01:25-06:07| | Food, weed, and late-night delivery spiral | 06:07-08:24| | Family fatphobia, early eating disorder | 08:44-10:51| | Weight loss, public validation and discomfort | 12:01-14:48| | On checking in with friends about weight loss | 15:13-16:12| | Holmes as group truth-teller | 16:12-18:04| | Medication, mental health, and societal sadness | 18:55-21:58| | Exercise as self-care, not punishment | 23:00-24:03| | Friendship, romance, and boundaries | 35:47-37:18| | Technology, nostalgia for pre-smartphone era | 44:17-45:13| | Political/cultural hope and frustration | 47:17-50:31| | Teacher shoutouts, parenting styles | 58:52-60:27| | Rapid-fire "True or False" trivia segment | 63:27-67:02| | Reflections on aging | 68:28-71:19|

Final Thoughts

This episode blends vulnerability and satire, resisting simple answers to the complexities of living authentically—whether around substance use, mental health, body image, or political hope. Honest, compassionate, and sharp-witted, Caleb and Holmes create a space for listeners to laugh, reflect, and, perhaps, feel a bit less alone in the mess of sorting out what's "so true."