Punkie Johnson Fell in a Hole

Summary

So True with Caleb Hearon

Episode: Punkie Johnson Fell in a Hole
Host: Caleb Hearon
Guest: Punkie Johnson
Release Date: October 30, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode features comedian, actress, and SNL alum Punkie Johnson in a lively, candid conversation with host Caleb Hearon. They dive into Punkie's New Orleans upbringing, her path to comedy, lessons from relationships and heartbreak, her SNL experience, queer community debates, and a formative fall—literally—that helped launch her career. The conversation maintains a playful, brutally honest, and affectionately irreverent tone as they "get into it and sort it all out," exploring what’s “really real” about love, comedy, identity, and self-discovery.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Reconnecting & Setting the Tone

• Caleb and Punkie open with mutual teasing—reflecting on wild nights out with friends (notably with comedian Alex English), setting a relaxed, conspiratorial vibe.
• Memorable Moment: Punkie recounts drunkenly proclaiming love for the American flag at a show, causing confusion:

  "You went off about how much you love the American flag... 'We already have a pride flag. It's called the American flag.'" — Caleb (03:17)

Punkie's Early Life & Relationships

• New Orleans Roots: Punkie shares her deep love for America, despite its complexities, and describes her upbringing in New Orleans (03:51, 03:54).

• Marriage & Divorce: She details meeting her wife young, marrying after over a decade together, and the subsequent turmoil and addiction struggles that led to their split—highlighting the personal trauma and growth that came from it.

  "I was married for 20 years... Known each other more than half our lives, and we thought we were going to be together forever. And then...tragic things happen." — Punkie (07:03)

• On Moving On: Punkie is candid about the challenge of healing post-divorce:

  "Divorces are just so hard. It's so crazy that I'm skipping the marriage and the love part and jumping straight into, I can't get married because of the divorce." — Punkie (10:44)

Pre-Comedy Jobs & Finding Purpose

• Education Detour: Punkie studied physical education, almost became a teacher, but swapped to general studies after a rough school internship ("these children was bad") and difficult encounters with unhelpful parents (11:15–12:14).
• Odd Jobs: She tells a hilarious story about delivering ice cream and meals for Schwann's, meeting "crazy hillbilly Cajun motherfuckers" (13:23–14:23), before working as a bartender in the legendary New Orleans Daiquiri Shop—her first taste of real nightlife and improvisational performance (14:38–15:19).

Comic Inspirations & Beginning Stand-Up

• Comedy Was Destiny: Punkie credits nightly viewings of Comic View and her "comedy tape"–loving mom for her lifelong dream of performing (15:52–16:32).
• Barriers to Entry: Despite knowing she was destined for comedy, as a "small dyke in New Orleans," she felt it was out of reach until moving to LA (16:42).

  "I watched every rerun, and I was like, I'm gonna be a comedian." — Punkie (16:22)

• Persistence: "I've had to fight tooth and nail for every single thing that I've gotten. Nobody gave my ass nothing." — Punkie (17:02)

The Infamous Hole Incident: Career Catalyst

• The Fall: Punkie quite literally "fell in a hole" in New Orleans, received a settlement thanks to her parents' involvement, and used that money to move to Los Angeles to pursue comedy (19:08–20:56).

  "I fell down. I was walking down the street, and next thing I know, I was under fucking ground...The lawyer got me…like, 20 grand. And I took that money and I went to Los Angeles with it." — Punkie (19:08–20:51)

LA Hustle: Bartending, Comedy Store, and Cooking

• Landing at the Comedy Store: Punkie shares her surreal job interview (she thought it was a comic book store), landing the gig through Queer/New Orleans kinship, and her start in stand-up (21:28–22:22).
• Gumbo, Seduction, and Boundaries: Punkie’s love for cooking New Orleans staples—gumbo, etouffee, shrimp creole—serves as both cultural pride and her secret weapon in romance (23:13–25:44).

  "Once you come to the house and I cook you a meal...it's a wrap." — Punkie (23:02)

SNL Experience: Inspirations, Hosts, and Live TV

• Watching Legends Work: Punkie is in awe of seeing comics like Dave Chappelle, Chris Rock, and Bill Burr hone live monologues, noting Chappelle’s genius and rebelliousness (30:14–32:16).

  "He's just, he's not anti-gay, he's not anti-trans...the problem is, once he tell one joke and he get a rise out of people, he will continue to, to get that rise." — Punkie on Chappelle (31:52)

• Behind the Scenes: Punkie talks about the choreography and hierarchy of SNL, the humility required to succeed, and her own live-TV mishaps ("ran in front the camera...my whole wig!") (34:12–35:17).

Culture Shock & Gay Community Debates

• Southern vs. West Coast Queer Culture: Punkie describes distinct "gay rules" across regions—Southern queerness often mirroring heteronormativity, in stark contrast to LA’s more fluid dynamics (35:31–37:04).

• Queer Discourse & Identity Labels:

  • Punkie and Caleb lament the generation gap in queer communities, their own discomfort with words like "queer" due to trauma or upbringing, and debates over inclusion/exclusion.
  • Both emphasize community unity—while they may disagree with current "gay agendas," their love and solidarity with the broader LGBTQIA+ community is unwavering:

    "If it's supposed to be all inclusive, if that's what we're preaching, then that's what we should be." — Punkie (40:07) "When they come round us up, we're all getting rounded up." — Caleb (40:10)

Psychedelic Self-Discovery & Healing

• DMT Journey: After leaving SNL, feeling purposeless, Punkie went to Mexico and tried DMT (the “Toad”), leading to an emotional reckoning with self-forgiveness, healing after her divorce, and forgiveness for herself (47:47–52:07).

  "I did the strongest strand of DMT...and it changed my entire life." — Punkie (47:55) "I could not get past [the words] 'I forgive myself.'" (50:59)

• Integration: The post-DMT period was fraught with anxiety but forced Punkie to face her fears, triggers, and imposter syndrome head-on (52:19–54:35).

Love, Redemption, & Representation

• Seeking True Love: Punkie reflects on her evolving understanding of love, longing for the soulmate connection she’s yet to truly experience, and her work toward being ready for it (54:42–55:44).

• Butch Visibility: Feeling called to represent tough, masculine lesbians ("big dyke butchers"), Punkie embraces her identity loudly—especially in media spaces where such representation is missing (46:28–47:14).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Moving Forward After Hardship:

  "Anything I need to do...I could just cut it off. Yeah. So we did drugs for a little bit. I saw my life wasn't going anywhere. I just overnight. Just done." — Punkie (08:50)

• On Butch and Lesbian Representation:

  "I want to do that...I'm not going to be scared to do it, and I'm not gonna be scared that TV not gonna want to pick me up because I'm too brash or I'm too tough." — Punkie (46:59)

• On Queer Community Discord:

  "I don't have to be with this gay agenda...It doesn't make me less gay than you...I've been in this gay fight all my life." — Punkie (38:47–39:26)

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Important Segments and Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment | |---------------|--------------------------------------------------------------| | 02:31 | "You were lit, Punky"—Wild nights with Alex English | | 07:03 | Punkie on her 20-year marriage and divorce | | 11:03–12:14 | Teaching internship horror stories and quick career pivots | | 13:07 | Delivering with Schwann's—odd jobs and rural travels | | 15:39 | Comedy inspirations: Whoopi, Pryor, Murphy | | 19:08 | Falling in a hole and using the settlement to move to LA | | 23:13 | Punkie’s legendary cooking and seduction skills | | 30:14 | SNL: Legendary sets—Chappelle, Rock, Bill Burr | | 31:40 | On Dave Chappelle’s trans material and comedy boundaries | | 35:31 | Culture shock: "Regional" homosexuality and queer norms | | 40:07 | Queer community debates, evolution, and solidarity | | 47:47 | DMT trip, self-forgiveness, healing, and spiritual growth | | 54:42 | What’s "so true" for Punkie: longing for real love | | 57:49 | True or False game show segment—competition and laughs |

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Fun & Emotional Highlights

• Comic Fraternity: Hilarious retellings of nights out, barroom philosophy, and how "yang and yang" pairings get into trouble.
• Open Emotional Sharing: Punkie's honesty about addiction, heartbreak, and guilt is moving, especially following her DMT journey and self-forgiveness revelations.
• Playful Banter: Recurring bit about cooking southern food to seduce women, and the description of what a true "slut-out" looks like ("When a woman do that to me and grab my face, I'd be like busting the neck." 57:34).
• Cultural Commentary: In-depth, sometimes controversial, takes on queer labels, generational shifts, and how internet culture has changed community discourse.

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Closing & Takeaways

Punkie Johnson’s journey from New Orleans—through love, loss, substance struggles, comedy grind, and SNL fame—to finding self-love and purpose is as turbulent as it is inspiring. Her humor, candor, and pride in her identity shine throughout. The episode offers a rich look at queer life and comedy from a perspective rarely amplified in the mainstream, laced with jokes, tough truths, and a warmth that radiates even (especially) through the hard parts.

Final words from Punkie (to future love interests):

"DM me, baby. I need you to be like 5'1", 5'6", Felicia Rashad, pencil skirty... You got to be able to put me in my place without saying nothing." (56:21)

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Find Punkie

Instagram/Twitter: @punkiejohnson

Stay tuned for her special and documentary, and catch her live for unbeatable authenticity and butch pride!

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

I like that was the problem. The boys wanted to smear me.

[A]

Yeah. If the girls were spearing me, I'd be pissed. But, yeah. Last time I saw you was on Alex English's show. And you were lit that night.

[B]

I. I shouldn't do anything with Alex.

[A]

You were lit, Punky.

[B]

You know what? Me and Alex, we are a very dangerous combination. We. Not even a yin and a yang. We like the yang and the yang. We are too much of the same person in public. We. I cannot be around Alex without getting into some type of trouble or being dead the very next day. I don't even remember Alex. Was that the show when we go sit on the stage and we talk about what's on the screen or something?

[A]

Yes. You were sitting on the stage talking about what's on the screen. I was there with Marie, and we were laughing so hard because at one point, you. You were. You were pretty drunk at this point in the show in a very fun way. And who were you up there? You were up there with Zweigh and someone else.

[B]

Yeah. It was Zwe.

[A]

You went off about how much you love the American flag, and you. You're like, fuck the pride flag. We already have a pride flag. It's called the American flag. And you were. And Alex was like. Alex is like, punky, punky, punky. And you were going, no wonder why.

[B]

I was getting hate mail from Black Lives Matter.

[A]

It was cracking me up, dude.

[B]

Well, because I love America.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Sometimes I get really upset with all the things that's going on in America, but I really love this country. This is Atlanta, the free home of the brave.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's how I try to still live by it. You know what I'm saying?

[A]

You're from New Orleans.

[B]

From New Orleans, Louisiana.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And just to. Just to piggyback, just to backtrack to Alex one time, I just wanted to let the world get him back in here. Yeah. I just want to let the world know that Alex took me out one time. I went to Los Angeles and Alex took me out, and he kept saying stuff like, I'm going to show you how real men do things. As he walking like this, watching.

[A]

Hey, girls.

[B]

He held my hand the whole night.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Bought me drinks. And you know what? You know what? I realized? I have not. I was, you know, I was married for 20 years, and then I got divorced, and then I kind of played a little bit. But I never really went on the gay scene. I kind of just met women. However, I met him grocery store, bank, whatever. And I went to the gay club with him. And I really never really noticed how gay men just be being gay.

[A]

What do you mean?

[B]

Gay men is gay as fuck. He, they all just be dancing with each other. They just go home with each other. It is like such a fast connection.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Alex was macking.

[A]

Yeah, of course he's gorgeous.

[B]

I was like, alex, beautiful, charming. Everybody wanted him. They was just all over him. And it was like some guys confused me. Cause they'll be like the biggest thug of the thug. And Alex would just basically like top him. And I'll be at the bar like, what the fuck is going on in this club? It was insane because with girls just so different. I didn't realize how different we were. It's just like we go up, hi, how you doing? Let's get to know each other. Maybe we exchange numbers. We're not all over each other like that. From person to person to person. Yeah, you know, it's very rare. I haven't had that many one night stands in my life, but I think gay men have a bunch.

[A]

Oh, for sure. Yeah, we do. Yeah, we do.

[B]

Yeah. I've had like maybe two or three.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because I kind of thought you were playing around a little more than that.

[B]

Well, you know what? Also, I'm a woman, so I mean, like I am butch, but I like a little bit more of a deeper connection. You know what I'm saying? When I have to have sex, I'll be for real.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I can't give. I'll be in it. Boy. I can't be for real with some random woman, you know? Like, even if I get to know a woman for like a week or two, and if I establish a nice strong connection, she gonna get the business.

[A]

Yeah, I know that's right.

[B]

The business.

[A]

Gonna get the punky treatment guaranteed. The punky guaranteed.

[B]

Listen, and I'll send you out with a little care package.

[A]

I love that. I'm so happy to hear that for these girls.

[B]

Hey, and you know, I'm a gentle woman too, so I'm very gentle. And like, I could get crazy though. Don't. Like if we coming out and we had a nice strong night and we all, you know, we all messed up from the alcohol and you want to get slutted out. I got something for that too.

[A]

Will be a gentlewoman. We'll slut you out.

[B]

Hey, hey, whatever's needed. Hey, I could wear basketball clothes and I could wear a suit. What's happening? You know what I'm saying?

[A]

A true verse in that regard.

[B]

Hell, yeah.

[A]

That's so funny, dude. Married for 20 years.

[B]

I was. I was married for 20 years. I was. I had my high school sweethearts. I met her when I was, I think, 15 years old. She was, like, 14. Yeah, I think I was 16. Whatever. It was a long time ago. It was like 30 years ago. I don't know. I can't do numbers right now. I was drinking last night.

[A]

Don't ask me to do math.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But we were. We were babies. Known each other more than half our lives, and we thought we were going to be together forever. And then, you know, things change and tragic things happen, and then one person can handle the tragedy and one person can't. So, yeah, she spiraled out, got a little depressed. I was just like. And then started doing, like, crazy stuff, and I'm just like, I can't help you no more.

[A]

Are you all friends now or. No.

[B]

We could try to be friends, but she is still mentally just. She just. She's just not mentally ready to. She's. She be inside. I don't think she stepped out of her house in three years.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Maybe to walk the dog that we have. But she's. She's a great dog mom. I trust her with the dog. She handles that.

[A]

Marrying someone so young is such a big choice for such. Like. Y' all were kids when you got married. That's really crazy.

[B]

You know what? We were. We didn't get married till maybe 12 years into it, so we were still very young. Yeah, we were very young when we were young. Yeah. Yeah. That was my baby. I loved her so much. I still love her.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But it's further than I can reach. So I'm just like, I gotta let it go.

[A]

You gotta let it go sometimes.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm over the love part. I'm over the being with her part. I'm over all of that shit. I want her to be. Well now. When we was getting divorced, I did not wish that betrayal.

[A]

Did get a little toxic.

[B]

It was very, very toxic. You know, we got on drugs together. But the difference is, I got off the drugs.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I was just. You know, God gave me something very special, and I appreciate him for it. He gave me a light switch. I can flip this. I could stop drinking when I feel like it. I could stop eating when I feel like it. I could. Anything I need to do to get to where I need to be. I could just cut it off. Yeah. So we did drugs for a little bit. I saw my life wasn't going anywhere. I just overnight. Just done. No more coke. Yeah. And then. But she didn't. So it just spiraled from there. I would come home, strangers in the house. I'd be like, who are all these kids?

[A]

Not the strangers, man.

[B]

It would be. I was like, it's, you know. Cause crackheads know crackheads. So I would be in the house with all these crackheads in the house. I'm like, who are these people?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It just. It just got really, really bad. But for a crackhead, it's really fun.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

I was like, I'm not doing it.

[A]

These are people I met. This is a good time.

[B]

Yeah. I'm not having fun anymore. Anymore.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So we just. You know what I'm saying? And she. And she know I love. I'm not, you know, I'll be trying to tell people. They'd be like, you got to stop putting her opinions out. I'm like, this is. I can tell my side of the story without insulting her. Or like, this is just my POV or what happened.

[A]

Yeah. These are facts. These are facts of what transpired. You're not telling anything. Like deep, dark, intimate. You're just like, oh, this is how I went.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll never try to hurt her like that. I hope she know that. So.

[A]

Yeah. You think you ever get married again?

[B]

You know what? I do not think I'll get married again. But, you know, but also, I stopped believing in love after I got married and I fell in love.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you just, you just never know. And the reason why I say that is because I'm very traumatized at how a divorce took place and how we were just so mean to each other. And I mean, it was. It was just non stop. We lost the friendship and the divorce and it was very hurtful. So I say that to say I. I don't want to break. It's. Divorces are just so hard. And it's so crazy that I'm skipping the marriage and the love part and jumping straight into, I can't get married because of the divorce.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I'm still just pretty, like really still just dealing with the healing of that. So maybe once I come out on the other side, maybe I'll get married again.

[A]

It's a big, huge thing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So you, you grew up in New Orleans.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You went to high school in New Orleans. You went to College in New Orleans.

[B]

I went to college Louisiana away. Thibodeau, Louisiana.

[A]

And you majored in general studies.

[B]

I majored in physical education.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Then whenever you major in something where you have to work with students, they send you to the schools to do internships.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And when I tell you I went to a school and these children was bad.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm talking first. Soon as I walked up in there, they just circled me like I was just a piece of meat. And they. They clapped. I'll never forget it. Like it was yesterday. They was like, fresh meat. Fresh meat. And I'm young. I'm like 20 years old. I'm 20 years old, bitch. I'll fight you. I'll fight you right now.

[A]

Basically yalls age. We can fight. Yeah.

[B]

Because it was like 16. I'm like, what's up? You know?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And just like, it just went. And then like, they train you to be the teacher. So I had to handle all like, the demerits and the behavior issues and how I would do this and abcd. And I remember talking to the parents because, you know, the kids are going to be the kids.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, we can't. That's just how they going to act. But it was for me once I started talking to the parents and one of the parents was like, oh, that's your problem. I say I went straight and changed my major to. I was like, general studies. I was like, it don't even make sense to even go through the obstacles it would take to become a teacher.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm not taking the test. I'm not doing it. Because if I go to one of these schools, I'm going to lose my career. If the parents don't help, then I'm.

[A]

Not doing all that. Yeah.

[B]

So I'm like, change general studies. I had all the credits. Ended up graduating with the credits that I had. I ain't had to overwork over. I was good.

[A]

Yeah. So what when you got out of college, what was. What was the vibe? Where were you living? What were you doing for work?

[B]

Got out of college. I tried to go to graduate school.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Don't ask me why. I don't know where my brain was at that time, but I guess I was just in Tibeto and I didn't really know how to return. Back home or.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And the woman who I married, we were together at the time, and she was still in school. So I was like, I guess I'll just. Just go to graduate school. I ain't got nothing else to do. Went. Did that for one month. Dropped everything. I was like, I ain't. I'm done. I ain't doing that no more. And then I worked at this place. Have y' all ever heard of this place called Schwann's?

[A]

No.

[B]

Yes. Oh.

[A]

Delivery food.

[B]

So wait, why? I worked at this place called Schwan's. I got like, 800 a week. I thought that was so much money. And I drove and delivered ice cream and chicken.

[A]

I would love for you to show up at my door with ice cream. That would be the most important thing in the world. It was like.

[B]

It was. The truck is designed to be a refrigerator on one side and it's a freezer on the other. So I was out here selling Hungry man meals and ice cream sauce. Berry steaks.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Mint ice cream. Chicken, green beans, potatoes. I was out here doing that. But the problem was I had to travel to every single city, and not just Thibodeau. So I had to go to Gray, Louisiana, home of Louisiana. Franklin, Louisiana. And it was just. I was just like, nah, I'm not doing this.

[A]

That is so interesting. Did you meet interesting people doing that or just kind of like, whatever?

[B]

I met a lot of interesting folks. It's the country.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So you're gonna meet some. All right. You gonna meet some crazy, like, hillbilly Cajun motherfuckers out there. But it was just not the job for me. But I had a cdl, you know, at a green license. That was fun.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I had to quit that shit. And then I think a hurricane hit or something, like Hurricane Ida or something. And then we. And then our house was destroyed, so me and my wife at the time, we had to move back home.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then when I got back home, I became a bartender at this place called the Daiquiri Shop.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's where my life took off. And that's when I learned how to make drinks.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm like, this way. I belong at the bar. The bar was. After college. I worked at a bar. I didn't even have to go to college. That was crazy. But it was good to do it because, you know, I was the first one in my immediate family. But, like, worked at a bar, learned how to bartend, got fucked up at work. It was the perfect job for a New Orleans person to do out till two in the morning, and then you just wake up at 6pm and start all over again.

[A]

Yeah. Hell, yeah. And so you were you doing shows at the time?

[B]

I was not. I was not. This was. I was young. This was like, 2010.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I didn't start coming until 2011. And then, really, I didn't know that my. Me and my girlfriend at. Wife. Girlfriend at the time we broke up, and I couldn't handle it. I couldn't. I was just like, I can't be in the same city with you. And that is what pushed me to go chase my dreams.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's when I went to California.

[A]

Now, I know that growing up, you were. I know that you're a big Whoopi Goldberg fan.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I feel like I remember you were, like, a Richard Pryor fan.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

Eddie Murphy was big for you as well.

[B]

100. Yeah.

[A]

So at what point was Punky in Louisiana, Like, I need to try this. Like, what point did you know it and then how long until you did it?

[B]

Well, you know what? I knew it my entire life because the last thing I would watch before I went to sleep at night was Comic View.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Where you have, like, when. That's when I met through the screen, D.L. hughley. Montana, if you remember. Montana. D.C. curry, sedge the Entertainer, Steve Harvey, Cedric.

[A]

Cedric was a big one for me.

[B]

Yeah. You know, just D. Ray was popping on. Just. We just met. I watched it every single night. I watched every rerun, and I was like, I'm gonna be a comedian.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then my mom cleaned the house with. You know how moms typically clean the house with music? My mom cleaned the house to the sounds of comedy.

[A]

Whoa.

[B]

So I loved comedy. I knew I wanted to do it, but for me, I never really saw it because I was just like, I'm just a small dyke in New Orleans. I'll never do it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But name of the special, by the way, I ended up doing it, and it became the best move I ever did in my life.

[A]

Well, it's. You think it's what you're meant to do. I mean, you're so. You're such a natural at it.

[B]

And then you had to learn how to do it. I had to fight for every single. That's. That's one thing about this business that I can truly attest to. I've had to fight tooth and nail for every single thing that I've gotten.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Nobody gave my ass nothing. And I get it, you know, to know me is to love me. You know what I'm saying? But, man, who has been a journey.

[A]

Yeah. It's so interesting that your mom is such a huge comedy fan, because I know that when you move to New York to do snl, she left. Hid a bunch of letters in Your luggage, right? Or something like that. Oh, give you some letters.

[B]

Cry my ass off.

[A]

And one of them said, you're one step closer to pay me back for the life I gave you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So she was really invested in the punky story.

[B]

Yes, I have. All of the letters that she gave me are kind of faded right now. I should have got them laminated, but I still have them all up on my bar and I'll read them sometimes and I'll be cry. I still cry.

[A]

Go get those eliminated.

[B]

I know.

[A]

Please go get those protected out.

[B]

Yeah, I will, I will. They fading out, so I will.

[A]

Yeah, get them protected.

[B]

But that tramp dog. Go tell me I owe her for life and all of that stuff. So I'm sitting up there reading the letter. You know, all the. The whole. The whole first page is all you, you know, emotional and inspirational and all that. And then I flip it over. Yeah, but you owe me money with your bitch ass.

[A]

That's so funny.

[B]

But that's our family dynamic, you know, we don't really like to do the. If we ever want to say something emotional, we have to write it down. We cannot talk to each other. We all weird. Like, if I talk to my brother and I be like, hey, bro, I just want to let you know I appreciate you. He going to say, man, if you don't get the fuck with that bullshit, I don't know why we like that. But we just stop being gay punky.

[A]

Get the hell out of. So, okay, so you're in. You're working at the bar in New Orleans, and then do. When do you start. Do you start comedy in New Orleans?

[B]

No. So New Orleans is just, like expanding, like now. Yeah. Like, it's. The comedy scene is fantastic. People, the comics there, the local comics, they are really, really bringing it up.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So at the time there was. There was. It was not. It was Not a lot going on.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So what I did was when I moved to Los Angeles, here, go to crazy boy. What really helped me move to Los Angeles was why I fell. I fell in a hole.

[A]

What?

[B]

I fell down. I was walking down the street, and next thing I know, I was under fucking ground.

[A]

Okay, fucky.

[B]

What? I don't know. They didn't have it sealed off. It was cement. It was wet pavement.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I fell in it. And I was up to here.

[A]

No.

[B]

And so I was laughing at myself without understanding the true danger that I was in.

[A]

You're laughing in the hole?

[B]

I was laughing in the hole. I was like, you big dumb bitch. How you Fall in the hole. Meanwhile, I am going down. Okay. I am going down.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So then I panic, and I'm just like. But while I'm trying to get out, I'm. I'm pulling every muscle in my. I don't understand how much I'm hurting myself.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Trying to survive in this damn hole. And I get out. I go to, like, Walgreens to change my clothes, and then I just go back to work. I don't even. My adrenaline is gone so much. I don't even understand that. I fucked all my back, my neck up, my wrists, my arms. I messed everything up.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then I go home, and my mama like, what the hell happened to you? I was like, I fell in.

[A]

I was like, I fell in a hole.

[B]

God damn it. I'm like, I fell in a hole. She was like, kevin, this girl done fell in a goddamn hole. So then my daddy come out. Cause, see, I just thought I was goofy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They were pissed. Yeah. They was like, we're getting on the goddamn phone with the attorney. Like, that was the first time I ever saw the white side of my parents.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We called our lawyer. I went to. I went, like, took care of it. I didn't know I had to go to the hospital. Went to the hospital. All.

[A]

All.

[B]

I pulled all kind of shit. Sprained my wrist.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Had to, you know, had to do all kind of therapy. I think the lawyer got me, like. I don't know, like, 20 grand.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I took that money and I went to Los Angeles with it. And that's how it all started.

[A]

Thank God for the hole.

[B]

Thank the. I know.

[A]

Thank God.

[B]

Thank God I survived the hole.

[A]

Thank God you survived the hole. And thank God your mom was like, lawsuit. Immediately. Lawsuit. And then you moved LA and got a job at the Comedy Store.

[B]

I did, yeah. I did. And with that, this is what I learned in Los Angeles.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Everything is like a roll call. Okay. I went to a job interview, and it was like an audition. So when I walked into the original room, first of all, I thought it was a comic book store.

[A]

Right.

[B]

That's what I thought. I was like, what the. I was like a comic book star. Store hiring cocktail waitresses. This is going to be interesting. So I go, and I'm from New Orleans. When we go get a job, we casket show up. Got a whole suit on, hair was done, earrings on, like, they want cocktail. So I had to play the feminine role a little bit. I had makeup on. I had a briefcase. I was looking sharp.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I get up in there. It's like 75 people, and they all look like this US jeans on. I'm like, this ain't how you get no job. But that's when I told the universe and God, I'm like, if I get this job, out of all these people, I'm gonna start comedy. Cause it was like, no way I'm gonna get this job. It's too many people. Why would they pick me, man? I got that job because the dude that hired me, he was gay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We bonded off. Queerness.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And he loved New Orleans.

[A]

Damn.

[B]

We bonded so hard. And he gave me the job, and then I started doing comedy.

[A]

Did you. When you met the guy, do you remember, did you tell him about the hole?

[B]

No.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

No, I don't think I told him about the hole.

[A]

Because I'm saying I probably would have hired you if you're like, I fell in a hole and I used the lawsuit money to move here. I'd be like, damn, here's a job.

[B]

Yeah, I think. I think he asked me what I miss about New Orleans. And that's another reason why I got the job, too. Cause I was like, what I miss about New Orleans? He's like, yeah. I say, them good old ham hocks. He said, ham hocks. Would you make me a ham hock? I said, I'll make you a ham hock.

[A]

Did you?

[B]

No, I did not make a ham hock.

[A]

But we say what we have to say.

[B]

Yeah, I would have. You know, I cook all the time. I don't care.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You're a good cook.

[B]

I'm a great cook.

[A]

What do you make?

[B]

You know, that's how I get the women.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't think you. I don't see you having a problem getting women.

[B]

It's like. It's like a thing of, like, once. Once you come to the house and I cook you a meal. Yeah, it's a wrap. I don't know why. It's just a wrap. Come on, then. I make good New Orleans food, too.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Stuff that people. A lot of. A lot of people have not had New Orleans food that I meet. You know, they're either from Cali or New York, and they've never. New York food is fantastic. Yeah. You can't get. You gotta. You gotta get that root. Once you get that root, and them girls taste that root, they're making gumbo. What is this?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you're making Crawford, chef. I'll make etouffee. I'll make shrimp creole.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'll make smothered. Chicken, smothered pork chop. I'll make some good gumbo I just made. It's gumbo season right now. Yeah, probably the kitchen up.

[A]

Love gumbo. Gumbo is my favorite.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Honestly. Invite me over when you make gumbo next, please.

[B]

Oh, absolutely, I'll come.

[A]

I'll make some cornbread and come over.

[B]

Oh, don't, don't, don't. Don't play with me.

[A]

Let's go. What are we doing? Let's go. It's about to get cold too.

[B]

Listen, my nipples get hard when I hear cornbread. I love me some cornbread.

[A]

I'll bring some very good cornbread over.

[B]

Hell yeah.

[A]

Let's go.

[B]

I be. I be, man, like, I be. I'll be cooking.

[A]

That sounds so good right now.

[B]

I'll be cooking good too, now.

[A]

Okay, when you make gumbo, what all are you putting in it? Are we talking sausage, chicken, shrimp?

[B]

I do. Sausage, Chicken, shrimp, crab, yeah, Crab, okay. Always crab. Blue crab, preferably. Sometimes you got to get rock crab, cuz sometimes the east coast don't have blue crab.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Onions, garlic, bell pepper, of course. Celery.

[A]

Yeah, of course.

[B]

I. Sometimes I like to use ghee butter. Depending on how healthy I'm trying to be. I'll use a little ghee, a little oil. Make my. And flour, of course, make my roux.

[A]

Yeah. My mouth is watering.

[B]

It's so. It'd be so good. And then you just throw all that in the pot and you season it till it tastes good.

[A]

Now, are you okay? Are you. When you're cooking for these women, are you pulling it out quick and early? Are you making them wait a little bit? How. How soon are you cooking a delicious meal for a woman?

[B]

I do not like people. Strangers in my house. So I would have to date you at least two months before you come over.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You really are not like gay guys.

[B]

I'm very. Yeah, I'll come to your house. Yeah.

[A]

You know. Yeah.

[B]

Because I don't. I don't like to be rude. So if you do come over and you don't get the signs that I want you to go, and I'll be like, yeah, I need you to get the.

[A]

This was so much fun.

[B]

And when I go by somebody house, I. I'll be out. We do what we got to do, and I leave expeditiously. So I'm not, you know, if you're not like my girlfriend, I don't, you know, I don't really see a reason for us to be like, laid up under each other. Like that. But. Yeah, but if I know you for like two months and I'm like feeling you. Feeling you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We. I'm gonna throw down for you.

[A]

Yeah. A good meal.

[B]

Yeah. And then. Then I'm gonna slut you out.

[A]

I like that. The sluts you out is really killing me.

[B]

Yeah. A good meal and a slut out. Yeah. You know, you know when a woman wake up on her stomach, falling off the bed, half the COVID on, no buggy.

[A]

I don't know. I've not seen a woman like that. I can promise you that I'll be.

[B]

Trying to knock them down.

[A]

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[B]

Probably Dave, Dave Chappelle, you know who I like to. You know, because since working at snl, we get to see them in action, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then like a lot of comedians, a lot of hosts that come to the show.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You, the team, the writers will write their monologues for them, but the comedians that come, they perform, they write their own monologues.

[A]

Monologue, yeah.

[B]

And if they need a little help with tagging, then they'll get the help. But I love to watch Bill Burr when he's on the show. I love to watch him in action. I love to watch Chris Rock on the show.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I like to watch them articulate their jokes. I love to watch the progress from it from when they practice it on Friday, they go into it on Saturday, they do it for the run through, and then they do it for the live. I like to watch how it. The specific changes that they've made. Especially like Dave Chappelle, because sometimes Dave Chappelle, he's just so fast.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He's so clever and he's so smart that what he'll do is he'll do a whole monologue. His. His performance for one show and then a second show, you'd be like, that ain't what he did for the run through. Yeah, he'll do a whole different 22 minutes.

[A]

He's prolific. Yeah.

[B]

It's supposed to be seven minutes. Yeah, that bitch will do 22. Yeah, but you're sitting up there and you're like, oh, man, he's a genius. But come on, man, I'm trying to be on tv, you know what I'm saying? Get your ass off the stage, motherfucker. Yeah, but, yeah, I mean, I really enjoy. I really, really enjoy watching Chris Rock work.

[A]

I mean, I do have an obvious question for you about Dave, which is like, he's. He's an undeniable legend.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

But he spent so much of the last several years of his career really going in on this trans stuff he did. What do you make of it? Like, how does it make you feel?

[B]

Several conversations about it. The number one thing about Dave, he's not anti trans.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He's just, He's. He's just a fucking idiot. Yeah, he's just like, he's not anti gay. He's not anti trans. He's not like that but the problem is, once he tell one joke and he get a rise out of people, he will continue to, to get that rise. He's like, he's like in, he's like rebellious in that way. You know what I'm saying? And you have those friendship conversations where you're like, come on, man. Come on, don't do another one, dog.

[A]

But I've had those with comics.

[B]

Yeah, he gonna, he gonna do what he want to do. He, he, he fucking Dave. And it's just like with him, if you know him and you know his heart, you wouldn't take offense to it. But in this climate, I could understand why it's received the way it's received. You know what I'm saying?

[A]

Yeah, absolutely.

[B]

So it's just like on some inst. Like, I went to a, like a trans party.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Why? My dumb ass had a Dave Chappelle shirt on. I was like, pocky, what the are you doing?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Why did you pick this sweatshirt today?

[A]

Yeah. There wasn't another sweatshirt.

[B]

I wasn't even thinking. I'm just like, you stupid motherfucker.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I was like, God, please don't let these people realize what I got on.

[A]

Yeah. And was it, did anyone say anything?

[B]

No one said anything, but I felt just so uncomfortable. I was just like, I hope you know I'm an ally. I'm not. I, I, I was just so sorry. Yeah. I didn't mean it.

[A]

That's so funny to me.

[B]

It was, it was, it was very innocent. But, you know, do you, when you.

[A]

Were on the show, did you prefer having stand ups on to watch that process, or was it fun seeing, like, the famous people try and figure it out in a way that they never have to do?

[B]

Like, what was more fun with watching a host? Yeah.

[A]

Like, in terms of hosts, did you prefer a comic or did you prefer, like, the actors? Like, what was more fun for you to watch?

[B]

You know what? It's pretty split down the middle. It's pretty equal. I thoroughly enjoyed. Cause, you know, everybody's process is very different.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you can watch some of the hosts who won't submit to the show. And they will specifically have a very hard time now because that's a show that you have to submit to because they're gonna do it their way. They've been doing this for 51 seasons. You think it's your boo boo. Take all that ego you at snl.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Drop it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then once people understand that and they submit, the show goes perfectly well, you know, so it's Just, you know, SNL is a different machine. It's a monster. And it built itself. And everybody. It's a dance. You've been there. It's just like everything is moving at one time. Everybody understands where everything needs to be. Everybody has the rhythm it takes to get the show done. Nobody's bumping into nothing. Nobody's messing up things. It's just like these people have been working. You know, everybody's kind of sort of, in a way, married to each other because they're married to the game.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So the way that it moves, just. Just the choreography of it is. Is. Is just amazing. I can't believe it runs the way it runs. I'm more impressed with how it all runs and how they change the sets and take them down in 30 seconds.

[A]

The logistics. And the staff and crew on that show are superheroes. I mean, it's crazy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. It's really nuts.

[B]

It's. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you. They are some mistakes. I mean, by. Ran in front the camera one, one time.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

Whole head. Live tv, my whole. All of this. You see all of this. And up in my wig.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I was like, I'm so sorry, Lauren.

[A]

Yeah, that's so funny.

[B]

So, you know, did you have any.

[A]

Because you made a couple big moves now in your life. You went from Louisiana to la. You went from New York. Were there any, like, big culture shocks when you made those moves? Anything that was like, you know what?

[B]

I'm glad you asked that. Okay. So I beef with a lot of gay people online.

[A]

First of all, say that.

[B]

Okay. I beef with so many gay people. People. And it's because, first of all, I'm always talk.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's just how I am. I talk about every single thing. Every single, every. Every person. And. And if. And if you watch the videos, you could see.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That is out of love. It's. It's not like some hate slander. But what I realized when I moved, that gay people, it's all regional. Right. So when I talk online, it's because that's how I was born and raised gay. So down in the south, like Texas, Alabama, Georgia, Arkansas, Florida, Louisiana, we have this thing of, like, we kind of mirror the heterosexual relationship. So I can't be with no butch. That shit is gay. Yeah, it's gay. Can't be out here doing boy on boy. That's nasty. That shit is nasty.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I come from the way we were born and raised in a gay community. Community as dykes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right. The. The boys will be boys if you Play, like, the tuba or basketball. You are the boy, and you have to be the boy. You can't be coming out with your nails painted, doing all that gay shit.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. So then I moved to Los Angeles, and these gays just running amok.

[A]

There's fem on fem action fem on.

[B]

Femme, butch on butch. I'm like, what? Is this gay? This is stupid.

[A]

Yeah. Now I'm competing with the butchers and the femmes for the femmes. This isn't right.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's when I started to. And also what it. What it did was that's when I started to soften up.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's when I was like, oh, so I don't have to be this big butch man.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That I was taught by whoever our gay commissioner was. You know, I don't even know. But I do realize that it's all different rules. And when I'm fighting with people on the Internet, I'll be fighting with people because, like, I heard that they have this thing called dyke dickon or something like that. I forgot what it is, but it's. It's butchers having secret sex with men. Oh. And I got online and I was like, butchers? Say it ain't so. Please tell me this is not a thing.

[A]

I had a butcher and do this in college.

[B]

You can't have sex with men.

[A]

I know.

[B]

And then, like, all, like, the new school gays were like, you're starting to look more homophobic to us, more that you talk. And I'm just like, I don't give a fuck what I look like, bitch. That shit is nasty.

[A]

Well, this is. I get dragged into some. Some young Internet queer discourse sometimes for things I see on here, and I'm like, there's a couple things going on here. Number one, y' all spend most of your time online. I spend most of my time in the real world with real people. And so when I talk about people that are different from me, it's out of love for my friends. But y' all don't really have friends like that. No shade. And so y' all are. Y' all are just hanging out on your little corners of the Internet. And then that's one piece of it. Then the other piece is they're used to. Now, like, a lot of people, they look up to the younger queers. They look up to these, like, very sanitized, like, influencer types. And I'm like, I'm not an influencer. I'm a comic.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

I am a comedian. I Like, to make people laugh. I'm joking around. I'm finding the flaws, I'm making fun of. That's what we do, right? And so I'm like, you, that's fine. I'm not for you then. Yeah, I don't have to be for you.

[B]

Also, I don't have to be. You know, like, I get into a lot of arguments with the gays because I'm like, I don't have to be with this gay agenda. I don't have to be with it. It doesn't make me less gay than you. I'm gay.

[A]

You're not with agenda.

[B]

I've been gay, motherfucker. I've been fighting longer than I've been in this gay fight all my life. Yeah, I'm gay as the fuck and I'm with the gays. But I don't agree with a lot of things. Like, I get in trouble a lot because I don't like to be called queer. But it's trauma for me because I went to a white school when I was younger and they teased me with queer. That's what I was called. I didn't go at the blacks because at the black schools they was called dykes. But nobody called me dyke at the white school. They teased me, call me creep, weird, queer.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I carried that with me. And now all of a sudden, queer is a good word. I'm like, no, I can't do queer.

[A]

Because you don't have to like that.

[B]

I haven't gotten over it. It's, it's like, it's, it's just like, no, so queer. And they like, ah, yeah, yeah, you're against us. I'm like, no, I'm with you. My own story.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I always have to constantly just fight with that. And sometimes we argue because I'm just like, why? If you feel like I'm not a part of the gay agenda, whatever that is, the rules that the new gays have made, if I disagree with one thing, then how am I cast out of the community? Because I don't agree with how this works or what this is. I'm just like, no. If it's supposed to be all inclusive, if that's what we're preaching, then that's what we should be. Then we should lead an example with that.

[A]

Well, that's the other thing is, like it or not, we are in community together. When they, when they come round us up, we're all getting rounded up. Whether, like the, the, the, the young online queers that want to bitch with us about terminology or whatever. And I, and I understand it because I'm partially in that. Like, I feel like I've kind of got a foot in both. I'm like, regardless, we're all. It's. This is the, this is the LGBTQIA++ whatever community. All of us are in this thing. And the only people I'm really not down with are the gay people that are like, fuck trans people. Other than that.

[B]

Oh no. We can't say we have to protect our trans people.

[A]

That's what I'm saying. And we have. Not your thing. I don't care. We can disagree on pretty much anything with, about, about the labels and the language. You know what I mean?

[B]

Right, right, right.

[A]

But I don't like queer either. I'm a gay man.

[B]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Like, I'm fine with being a dyke ass bitch, you know? And I'm just like, we just gonna keep queer. We ain't gonna change it or remix it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Just queer. Yeah. Just gonna keep that dusty ass word. Just queer. No Quigga, no Quincy, no Q's. We just fucking still queers. Okay. Jesus Christ.

[A]

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[B]

So you're ready to.

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

Yeah, they used to play a game when I was in the fourth grade called Smear the Queer.

[A]

Of course. Yeah, we did too.

[B]

And it was, it was a tough. It was. It was just like, nah, I'm not with it right now.

[A]

I kind of like that game, though. I was like, you can. Y' all can touch me. You know what I mean? There. It was like, oh no. It was like, oh no, what if y' all all touch me. I didn't mind it, punky. I was cool with it.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I liked it. I was like, no worries. All the boys want to jump on me. That's not a problem.

[B]

I like that. That was the problem. The boys wanted to smear me.

[A]

Yeah. If the girls were smearing me, I'd be pissed.

[B]

Exactly. If the girls were smearing me out, I probably would have been like, screw some suspicious. Nail me to the cross.

[A]

Oh my God, that's so funny.

[B]

It was just so weird. It was just like, I was just like, nah, we're good, we're good. That is just. But yeah, like, I just always want to get like whenever I do podcasts and get on any platform, I always want to be very specific and heavily say, I love my gay people. I don't give a fuck if we disagree on this or that. I've been in this fight.

[A]

Yeah. I love gay.

[B]

And we all go Trump taking us all down and being a second now. So we might as well just love each other.

[A]

Isn't it, isn't it fun when you like meeting a gay person is just like the bet. Like when you find out someone's gay out in the world. I mean like an older gay person makes me want to cry immediately.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

I just want to immediately sob. I see like a 65 year old gay man. I'm just like on the verge of tears sometimes.

[B]

Yeah. When I see like the older ones, I do be. Want to cry sometimes because I can't even imagine. I know barriers they had to break to just be themselves finally.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, and now it looked like it's going backwards. It's so fucking weird. But anyway. Yes, yes. You down with G A Y.

[A]

So what have you been up to? What's. What's on your mind? What are you looking forward to? What's making you happy right now?

[B]

You know what? When I left snl, I was. I don't want to say I was distraught. I was just lost.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because I started as just a comedian. I had no intentions on going to a show like SNL because I was very brash, blunt, and a person like that doesn't belong on network television.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So they. So they said. And so when I got the opportunity to do it, I was very shocked. And I nailed the audition, which I sent in some ghetto ass shit, and they loved it because it was different. And then I got a call back, I was like, okay. So I doubled up on my characters, and then I got the job. Now, I went. With that being said, I went from just being this comedian who was just out, just having a good time and thought that that's what I was gonna do for the rest of my life to the biggest sketch show in the world.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Overnight. Right. And then you do it for four years and you're like, okay, this is my life now. And then you just stop.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then everybody is like, can't wait to see the next big thing. And now you. Now you're sweating and you got all this shit like, fuck. Well, what's the next big thing? I don't know. I didn't have a plan. And so for a minute, I was very stressed. I went down into a dark hole. I stopped talking to a lot of people. And it wasn't out of, like, spite or I hate you. It was just that I was just mean, and I just needed to keep all that negative energy to myself. And so what happened was I just was like, God, just help me. Send me a sign like, what am I supposed to be doing? Because I don't want to do the next big thing. I want to do the next thing. That. That. That is meant for me to walk in my purpose. Right. So one day I woke up and the Lord said, we don't have butch representation. Yeah, we ain't got none.

[A]

Yeah, we got.

[B]

We. You know, we need somebody out here that's representing for the big dyke butchers who are okay with being masculine and putting out that tough. Because the world don't want tough if you pay attention. Like, if we. If you watch anything on television, you don't really see the tough, tough butchers. Yeah, everybody's kind of got that soft you know, like, we have to keep it soft for television now that even with the L word, you ain't seen, like, no real butchers. You know, he's all like, some masculine women, but you ain't see, like, no real. You know what I'm saying?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I was like, I'm about to get out here, and I'm about to start representing for my masculine women. And I ain't gonna be scared to do it, and I'm not gonna be scared that TV not gonna want to pick me up because I'm too brash or I'm too tough, you know? And so I remember when I did my special, like, two months ago.

[A]

Congratulations.

[B]

Thank you. Thank you. So many masculine women, so many butchers came up to me and was like, I feel seen, Punky. Yeah, I see. I feel seen. Cause I'll be like. I'll be on stage doing all that shit.

[A]

I'd be like, what?

[B]

A butcher? I be doing all that shit, and all the butchers be in the back, like.

[A]

Like, there's a fucking mailman in the neighborhood.

[B]

So it's just like, I want to do that. And you know what else I did? Because I was just like. I needed, like, direction. I did something that black people do not do. I went to the jungle and I did the strongest strand of dmt.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

That's the death drug, right? It simulates the death reaction in your brain. Is that what I'm thinking of?

[B]

I did both of you.

[A]

Whoa.

[B]

The Toad and the one that Mike Tyson did, The one that Joe Rogan talks about doing, too. I did that, and it changed my entire life.

[A]

Wow, that's so interesting.

[B]

That's what I. I didn't know it would change. Like, ever since I did that, it's like something shifted in my brain. I became, like, this person of just like, well, it's gonna be what it's gonna be. What's the worst that could happen? Yeah, we either gonna be late or we're not gonna make it. What's the consequence? Not much. Like, nothing really truly matters.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

All right. I got a job. I guess I gotta come back home, you know? Like, what's the worst that can happen?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So once I just started living, like, living just kind of with that mindset, everything just shifted in my entire universe. Like, I was able to shoot my special, you know, I booked a really great job. Like, just, like, everything, you know, I submitted my documentary. To Sundance. It's like. Like, everything just started going up because my mindset just happened to change. And it just makes you realize that life is precious and I want to enjoy every single moment of it. And I don't really want. I granted there will be things that stress you out. It's just not going to be a perfect. You know, it's not going to be perfect, but I've. I've just been happy ever since I've done it.

[A]

Yeah. So you went. Where'd you go to do dmt? Where's this at?

[B]

Went to Mexico with a really. With some really, really great friends. And the experience itself is very scary. It's. I just want to let anyone know if you're thinking about doing it is so scary. You go away.

[A]

That's all I can tell you from your body consciousness.

[B]

You go away.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's very hard to explain. You go away.

[A]

Yeah. It's getting scarier the more you say it. I can tell you that much.

[B]

Yeah. It's like your brain, it takes you to all these places. It's like the experience itself is like it's seven minutes. I remember I woke up in it, but I couldn't hear anything, but I could see. And my spiritual guide, I remember just dancing with her and it was almost like I was floating on clouds. It was just such a surreal experience and I felt like I was with an angel. And then like she like laid me down and then I just started experiencing all these things. And you go through all of these emotions. It's like whatever you've been running from, it meets you head on and you have to take care of it. What met you just like.

[A]

Or we don't have to say no.

[B]

It's just like, here go the thing. So before you do it, they give you a prayer to read. And she stands in front of you and she holds this prayer.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I couldn't get past the third sentence. I was this woman. No one has seen me cry like this besides my mother. I cried the ugliest. I'm talking of viola dick. I cried snot. Filthy ugly cry. Yeah. I could not get past. And I forgive myself.

[A]

Oof.

[B]

I couldn't. I was like, enough. I was doing all, I was doing all this. I was just like. I could not get past that. Yeah. And in the moment I was like, damn, I must have done some crazy shit, you know? So when I went in under the bufo, I just asked for forgiveness for all the things that I've done.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And just like. And I forgave myself for a lot because, you know, I felt really bad for leaving my wife in the state that she was in. But I had to do that for me. But that still doesn't take away the guilt.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So it's just like. And then just a lot of other stuff happened and. And blah, blah, blah. So I had to forgive myself for a lot of the things that I felt very, very guilty for, even though it probably may or may not have been my fault.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then you just do it. And I spoke with my grandmother. I spoke with my ex, who I have right now. I spoke to her mom and apologized to her about things that me and the fights that me and her daughter have had. And I promise to do better. And just like. Just like all kinds of stuff.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But it was a very. It was a grand spiritual. It was a strong, intense spiritual experience. And you're fine for a day or two now. What happens is the next two weeks.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You. Your body is integrating back into its human form.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which sounds crazy because when they was telling me that that was gonna happen, I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's fine. I'm me. But you're not you, you, you. You're. Your brain has shifted. So for the next, like, two weeks, my anxiety was at all time high. I thought I was going to die for two weeks.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

See, I don't know anything about these drugs. This is all, like, learning for me.

[B]

But all the reason why I thought I was going to die for two weeks was my anxiety consumed my. I could not breathe. You know, I had to, like, put water in my face and run up and down the hallway. And I was just doing this and just trying to snap myself out of it. But what it does is it forces you to attack all of your challenges and all of your trauma and everything that triggers you. It forces you to fucking deal with it. Cause it's not gonna go away until you sit the fuck down, get your journal and say, why am I acting like this? What am I afraid of? How am I like. What exactly is triggering the anxiety? And so I started writing shit down. Writing shit down. Writing shit down. And then once I got to it and started working through it, the anxiety just started slowly falling off. But that was me dealing with my issues.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know what I'm saying? So I do. Yeah. Now I'm just trying to deal with my issues head on. And a lot of it was fear, you know? Cause I left snl and then I was afraid to take it to the next step. Which is crazy, because why are you afraid to take it to the next step when you just left the biggest stage in comedy sketch history, this is the point.

[A]

Next step is always the point.

[B]

Exactly. So I just had to snap out of a lot of things. And it was just like that imposter syndrome and that, what if I'm not good enough? And that was I supposed to be on snl. And it was just, it was a lot of things that was just. I was really struggling with, like, just my self esteem. So I did a lot of self reflection, I did a lot of prayer, I did a lot of meditation. And it was, it took a lot of work. And I'm still working, but I came out on the other side and I just got to work. I called my acting coach. I'm like, it's time to get fucking busy. Even though I was working with my acting coach when I had an audition, now I'm like, nah, we need to get on. We need to go every week. I need scripts. I need to get into this study. I need to understand what the writer talking about. Why is this bull. Why is this dash here? I just started, like, really, really getting into script, script and scene study, and here we are.

[A]

Yeah. Well, we ask people on this show every, every episode. What's so true to you? Is there something that's so true to you right now, Bunky?

[B]

You know what I think what's true to me is? I watch a lot of, like, therapy videos online and I watch this, what people say, what love is.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And when I watch certain things and how certain people touch each other and love each other and be with each other, I look at it and I'll be like, I don't know if I ever felt like that in my entire life.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I think I've gotten close. I think I loved my wife. I did love my wife. We were together since we were kids. But to love her in that capacity. I don't know if we ever, never made it there.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I, I, I want true love. I want to experience that. I want to cry when I look at my.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know what I'm saying? I don't know if I've ever made it there. I don't know if my heart was pure enough to do it. But now I'm like, actively working on myself and I'm looking for it inside of me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So that I can do it to whoever I'm with later.

[A]

I think it's all there for you. I think it's gonna happen.

[B]

I believe in it. Yeah. I believe in it. I want to be like, you changed my life. I want to say, you know, you Add so much value. I just want to be shit face crying and I just want to find the love of my life. I know she's out there. And I'm a fucking catch. I can't believe this bitch let me go.

[A]

I can't either. You're a huge catch.

[B]

No, I have my little issues. Don't get it twisted. We all do. But I'm a goddamn catch, Punky.

[A]

Not for nothing, a lot of lesbians watch this show.

[B]

Great.

[A]

So right now the hope in my heart is that maybe you coming on so true plays a little role. Maybe they reach out. Maybe you end up with somebody from. I mean, that would mean the world to me.

[B]

DM me, baby. I need you to be like 5, 1, 5, 6 to say it. I need you to be like a Felicia Rashad, kind of pencil skirty, you know, you. And you got to be able to put me in my place without saying nothing.

[A]

Okay?

[B]

I want you to look at me and do this. And I'm gonna be like, yes, ma'. Am. I want to be. That's the great thing. I want to be bossed around, but I don't want to be controlled. It's a diff. Is a. It's a difference. I just want somebody who kind of know I want to be able to go to my woman and ask for advice and she can give it to me, you know, I don't want to be the first. Like a lot of my relationships, like the last relationship I was in relationship with my wife, I found myself being on both sides of the gender roles. And sometimes that could get annoying. It's like, damn, I gotta go to work, I gotta come home, I gotta cook, I gotta clean, I gotta do lunch. It's like, damn, I won't do everything all the time. I don't mind.

[A]

I will.

[B]

But I was like, come on, baby, help me out. You know what I'm saying?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So it's just like you can't smoke no cigarettes.

[A]

You can smoke weed, of course I gotta do weed.

[B]

But you can't smoke no cigarettes. And you gotta drink a little bit and have some fun.

[A]

Yeah, you know, I love that. 5152. Felicia Rashad, pencil skirt.

[B]

And if you could. If you could be bilingual, that'd be nice too, because you could teach me a thing or two.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I love a woman who just like on top, me riding me. And she be like.

[A]

What accent was that? Just let me know.

[B]

I don't know what it was.

[A]

Whatever.

[B]

That was better than that. When a woman do that to me and grab my face. I'd be like busting the neck.

[A]

I'm dead. Hey, we have a. We have a game for you.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

All right. This is the True or false segment. Okay? We play this with every guest. There's. I'm going to read you 15 statements, okay? You're going to tell me as quickly as you can if what I just said was true or false.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

And if you get 10 or more correct, punky, we're going to give you $50.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

All right, let's lock in. You ready?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

All right. Squids have three hearts.

[B]

True.

[A]

True. In Italy is illegal to build a house without a bidet.

[B]

Wait, say it again.

[A]

In Italy, it's illegal to build a house without a bidet.

[B]

False.

[A]

True.

[B]

Damn.

[A]

The Mall of America is in Columbus, Ohio.

[B]

False.

[A]

False. It's Bloomington, Minnesota. Nichols State University's band is the Nichols Core.

[B]

False.

[A]

False. It's the pride of Nichols. Potatoes were the first vegetables grown in space.

[B]

False.

[A]

True. Shaq only hit one three point shot in his entire NBA career.

[B]

True.

[A]

True. Japan is made up of over 14,000 islands.

[B]

True.

[A]

True. The New Orleans Saints were originally the New Orleans Pythons.

[B]

False.

[A]

That is false. The summer solstice is the longest day of the year.

[B]

The who?

[A]

The summer solstice is the longest day of the year.

[B]

False.

[A]

True. Damn, honey. Expires exactly one month after being harvested.

[B]

True.

[A]

False. It never expires. Thriller was the first video aired on mtv.

[B]

Say it again.

[A]

Thriller. Michael Jackson's Thriller was the first video aired on mtv.

[B]

It's false. False.

[A]

It was video killed the radio star. The Treaty of Paris ended the American Revolutionary War.

[B]

Oh, God, these fucking history questions. The Treaty of Paris ended Who?

[A]

The American Revolutionary War.

[B]

False.

[A]

True.

[B]

Fuck.

[A]

I want to commend you though. You're going quick. Okay. The wrong eagle is a real bird.

[B]

False.

[A]

False. Africa is the only continent that's in all four hemispheres on Earth.

[B]

Repeat that.

[A]

Africa is the only continent that is in all four hemispheres on Earth.

[B]

That's false.

[A]

That's true. Rihanna has won nine Grammy Awards.

[B]

Pop. Oh, God, she's won nine. Rihanna. Talk to me, bitch. True.

[A]

It is true. How'd she do? Nine.

[B]

Damn.

[A]

As many Grammys as Rihanna. Yeah. You know what, though I will say you might be our. Our most locked in guest on the True or False. You What?

[B]

You.

[A]

You got locked in. That was really.

[B]

Hey, look. Hey, hey, hey. Don't threaten me with a good time. I love to compete.

[A]

I was very. You did a killer job, Punky. It was such A treat to have you. Will you tell people where they can find you?

[B]

Yes. Also, it was a treat to be here. Thank you so much.

[A]

Thanks for doing it.

[B]

I appreciate you. I love you so much.

[A]

Love you.

[B]

Treat to have you. Y' all can find me at Punky Johnson on everything. P U N K I E Johnson. And follow me. I'll be doing a whole bunch of stuff.

[A]

Yeah, I know. That's right. You absolutely will. I can't wait for people to find out what you're up to.

[B]

I. I can't either.

[A]

Yeah, it's gonna be God.

[B]

God has blessed me, people. And I can't wait for y' all to see my work. I'm excited about it.

[A]

Same. I can't wait to see it. Thank you for doing it, dude.

[B]

Absolutely, baby. That was a Headgum podcast.

[A]

What's going on?

[B]

It's Lamorne Morris and Hannah Simone, and.

[A]

We host the Mess Around a New Girl Rewatch podcast now on Headgum. Now here's the thing. Every single week, we chat about an episode of New Girl. And we really get into it. Like, we get up in there.

[B]

We get up in there.

[A]

You know, we reminisce about our times on set. We share behind the scenes tea. We react to rewatching episodes that we haven't seen in years. We talk about how Jake Johnson is. Is dog.

[B]

That's not true. We talk about so many memories we have of working with the biggest stars on the planet. I'm talking Prince Taylor Swift, Olivia Rodrigo.

[A]

We're just two BFFs having a good old time. Okay. Sometimes we even talk to other co stars like Zooey Deschanel, Jake Johnson, Max Greenfield, and Damon Waynes Jr. And your dad. We talked to your dad on this show as well.

[B]

Make sure you. You subscribe to the Mess around wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes drop every single Tuesday.