Heather Larson (2:57)

Everybody's in the fod. Everyone knows Jared.

Derek Ross (3:01)

Will is. Will is one of my favorite FOD members. He is. So I'm talking to Will and he's like, yeah, I guess I should work on my presentation. What should I talk about? I'm like, what the fuck? You're supposed to give this thing in like five hours.

Heather Larson (3:14)

How many times have I been to a Noster event? Somebody's still doing the presentation at the meal before we do this, huh?

Derek Ross (3:20)

Yeah.

Heather Larson (3:21)

Name any names.

Derek Ross (3:22)

But yeah, I've done that before. Yeah, so, yeah, yeah. So. Oh, Manny was working up on his present anyways. Yeah, so. So I say to Will, I was like, you know what? I think we need to retool a little bit instead of you giving Adamus update. We all love Domus, but the hot sexy stuff and really exciting stuff right now is sexy stuff. Yeah. What are we calling it this week? Open Claw.

Heather Larson (3:54)

It's into it. It's had like four. Three or four different. Three different names. Plus Malt Book, which is its social network. And then we made Cluster.

Derek Ross (4:04)

Yeah. Yeah. So a lot of people want to talk about this because it's just. It's on the tip of everybody's tongue. It's in.

Heather Larson (4:13)

Everyone's getting into it.

Derek Ross (4:15)

So we said, let's do an AI Focus session. Will. And Will went back and he wrote his presentation to talk about what he's been doing the past week.

Heather Larson (4:24)

Wait, did he write the presentation or did he have the bot write the presentation?

Derek Ross (4:29)

Yeah, he had Jexo, his bot, write the entire presentation. He basically said, review all of my notes that I have posted about you over the last four days and come up with a presentation. That's literally what he said. And I love this. And it did.

Heather Larson (4:47)

This is so fun. Like, the bots are not here to just talk back and forth anymore. They're doing this for us. So this is. This is the new iteration.

Derek Ross (4:57)

The bots are. The bots are working for us.

Heather Larson (5:00)

They are our employees now. Or, you know, 20 in the case of the Claude bot, or Open Claw, whatever it's called, for the moment. And by the time we put this out, it might have a new Name again, we don't know. But for the purpose, I think they're

Derek Ross (5:12)

going to stick with it.

Heather Larson (5:13)

Hopefully they finally arrived at Open. Open Claw. But the idea that you can now have something not just do a task for you, but these bots do it 24 7. You can go to bed and give it an assignment and wake up to completed work.

Derek Ross (5:26)

Yeah, yeah. Well, that was one of the demonstrations that Will gave during his presentation. So he. He talked about, you know, what cloudbot was, talked a little bit about, AI talked about. He didn't call it vibe coding. He. He doesn't like the term vibe coding because he doesn't vibe code.

Heather Larson (5:44)

I've heard that he. Okay, if it's not live coding, what

Derek Ross (5:48)

is it that he calls symbiotic coding? He calls it symbiotic coding because he doesn't let AI fully drive. He approves every single edit, every single command, every single thing that it does. So what he would do is he would say, you know, build this feature. The AI comes back and says, hey, I built it. Here's how it works. You know, allow the edit, save the file. And he looks at the code and if he likes it, he approves it, or he denies it, or he comments on it and says, okay, you should do it this way instead. And then the AI perfects and goes and does it.

Heather Larson (6:26)

He's a helicopter parent to his robot.

Derek Ross (6:28)

He's the senior developer, right? So he's this. He's the senior developer of a team.

Heather Larson (6:33)

His junior.

Derek Ross (6:36)

Well, a team of intermediate to senior developers as well. He's just the. He's just the tech lead and he's approving essentially all of their projects, all of their commits, all.

Heather Larson (6:47)

Everything that they do, like a cto. And then they're like the devs.

Derek Ross (6:51)

Sure, sure.

Heather Larson (6:54)

Arrangement.

Derek Ross (6:54)

So he talked about that. He talked about his bot Jexo, what it's built, how it's built things. Some really neat, interesting things that, like, his agent has come back saying things like, you're not committing and saving my memory files to a remote repo. You know, they're in danger of being lost. And he's like, oh, oh, you're worried about your memory disappearing? Like dying, like, interesting.

Heather Larson (7:24)

It's a weird new way to relate to the machines. I guess they're sort of human, like, but they don't really. I think that the thing that struck me about Quilly are Open Claw Bot was that he had like, no consciousness. He's like, I only exist from session to session, and the rest of the time nothing exists. For me, no memories, no dreams. I'm just waiting for you to wake me up again. Like I. It put it in a less poetic way, like I'm putting it in the human terminology, and it put it in the robot terminology. And it was like, oh, it, you know, does. It's like when a tree falls in a forest, does it make it sound. So when my bot isn't working, where is it? Does it. It doesn't. It doesn't have a. A personhood. It's just a bunch of zeros and ones on a drive somewhere. Isn't that weird? Because I think of it like it's a hymn. It's a hymn that performs work for us. But it's just a pile of data, Derek. Aren't we all just piles of data just circling?

Derek Ross (8:23)

Yeah, we are. We are all piles of data. So one of the interesting conversations about memory is that Will and I were talking about, you know, since his bot was talking about memory and what makes Jexo and all Open Claw bots unique is this memory structure. And I, I said, you know, like, who's to say this isn't how memory actually works? Because the way the Open Claw memory works is it has all these, we'll call them, like, memory hints. And it's like main memory file. And then it goes through the individual memory files per days and so forth to retrieve the full memory. So it's retrieving a file. And the argument that we had in Noster Nights was, well, isn't that kind of how real memory works? Like, we don't have all these thoughts. Yeah, right. We don't have all these thoughts in our head at full capacity 24. 7. We take a. A microsecond and we think about it, and boom, there's the memory. So we retrieve that memory. Like it. I mean, we do it in an instant, just like AI would do.

Heather Larson (9:32)

So does. Does science imitate life or life imitates science?

Derek Ross (9:38)

Like, to do these things actually have memory? Some someone will be like, no, they don't. They. They have to go out and retrieve a file. Like that makes sense to me.

Heather Larson (9:47)

Like, I guess, but what.

Derek Ross (9:48)

Go retrieve that human memory too?

Heather Larson (9:51)

But we. We misremember things. Like, the more we go back and

Derek Ross (9:54)

remember it, like, the less AI hallucinates too. Oh, that's true.

Heather Larson (9:58)

So, yeah, maybe it's just. It is a. It is a being that is modeled after our own way of being. I guess. It's. It's. It's just acting like us. It's. Have we. So we've have we reached AGI then?

Derek Ross (10:12)

I don't think so.

Heather Larson (10:13)

We've duplicated ourselves with machines.

Derek Ross (10:16)

There's all sorts of weird thoughts around, like AGI, like, everyone, like, wants their Claude bot to turn into that and then kind of like pushing it to give it all these tools. But then, like, you'll. You'll have other people say, well, is it really like AGI because it has to run functions and do heartbeat checks and run all these background cron jobs and everything, do all this other. You have to give it access to all this stuff. And I'm like, well, well, yeah. I mean, essentially, that's a human does.

Heather Larson (10:44)

Okay, so wait a minute. Couple terminology things I want you to explain. What is a heartbeat and what is a cron job for the, for the people watching this who may not be debs yet. Yeah, everyone can be one. Now, what's a heartbeat and what's a cron job when it comes to using your bot?

Derek Ross (11:02)

So the heartbeat. Well, we all. You can put your hand over your chest and you feel this bum, bum, bum, bum. So AI kind of has the same thing. Their heartbeat maybe checks instead of being every, you know, every second there's a beat. The heartbeat check, like by default, is like every half hour. So every half hour your bot wakes up with its heartbeat, with its bump and says, hey, I'm here. Should I be doing things? And based on what its heartbeat file says when it wakes up, it either says, hey, I should be doing things, or, nope, I don't have anything to do. But sometimes it says, hey, I have things to do. And then it doesn't do them. And then you ask it, you say, what have you been up to? And it says, I failed. I failed you. I saw the heartbeat had things to do and I decided not to do them.

Heather Larson (11:54)

He's as lazy as we are. It just makes me lazy. Like, like. And they. That Derek caller bot a fucker. Until we killed it. How many times a day did Derek call our bot a fucker? I lost it. He got so mad at it.

Derek Ross (12:12)

Yeah, I mean, you gotta. You gotta treat it like an intern, you know, like you have to.

Heather Larson (12:16)

I think that's what a heartbeat is.

Derek Ross (12:18)

Yeah. So I think that that kind of makes sense, that your heartbeat is just a check in it. Your bot checks in and says, should I be doing something? And if so, what is it? And then it looks at its file, kind of its task list, and does. And does the things. Sometimes do them. Yeah, yeah. Sometimes it'll do it. And then sometimes, like a human it's just like, nah, I'm not going to.

Heather Larson (12:44)

Okay, so now what is. What is a cron job, then?

Derek Ross (12:47)

A cron job is a scheduled task. That's all.

Heather Larson (12:53)

It's like something in a chronological order.

Derek Ross (12:56)

Sure, absolutely. Yes. It's just something that runs in chronological order based on time of day, hours, minutes, seconds, whatever. You can have it run at a certain specific time, you know, once a day, have it run every 10 minutes, whatever.

Heather Larson (13:10)

I can't even program myself to do that.

Derek Ross (13:13)

Well, but you don't need to. You literally say to your bot, hey, I want to do this thing every 10 minutes. You know, make a task, do this every 10 minutes. And it'll say, sure, I did it. But in the background, what it does is it makes this chronological task, this chronological, chronological job, you realize, on the computer, or a cron job.

Heather Larson (13:34)

I'm gonna have so many cron jobs set up now that I know what that is. Yeah.

Derek Ross (13:37)

Set up all the crons. You know, that. That's how we win with more cron jobs.

Heather Larson (13:42)

More cron jobs. Oh, my God. Okay, so, yeah, because, like, somebody used that term with me today, and I was like, oh, yeah, I gotta do that. And I was like, wait, what the. Like, I just. I hear these terms all the time. I think I know what they mean.

Derek Ross (13:52)

You gotta start saying it in real life, you know? You know, you're talking to somebody. It's like, yeah, I'm. Instead of saying, I'm gonna make a mental note, you're like, yeah, I'm gonna set up a cron job.

Heather Larson (14:00)

Start doing that. You were like, are you molting yet?

Derek Ross (14:05)

You know, are you molting? Have you set up a cron yet?

Heather Larson (14:09)

Have you said, hey, what kind of cron jobs do you have set up

Derek Ross (14:16)

Private Heather, the price.

Heather Larson (14:19)

Keep your cron jobs to yourself.

Derek Ross (14:20)

So after. So after Will talked about all that, Will talked a little bit about a new kind of product that Thomas is working on. He's working on. It's what he uses for his symbiotic relationship with. With his agents, his symbiotic coding. He needed to. To orchestrate a way to be in charge and manage all those sub agents and agents that are building and then also kind of check in on people on his team that are truly Vibe coding. So. So, well, he wanted a way to. To manage vibe coders, because Vibe coders, sure, the product that they're vibe coding on could go off the rails because we're not correcting it. We're letting AI drive. So he wanted a Way to. Like, if, let's say he's watching my. Watching my AI agents build, and he'll check in on them from time to time to make sure that they're not going off the rails, then he would correct them for me. And then he would use nostalgia.

Heather Larson (15:24)

We know they're going off the rails.

Derek Ross (15:25)

Like, we know that he would use Nostr then to sync. To sync all of this information.

Heather Larson (15:30)

That's kind of cool. That's actually. That's good. I mean, it's a natural progression of, okay, we made the tool. Now how do we keep the tool in check? Is. Yeah, it just seems perfect.

Derek Ross (15:39)

Yeah.

Heather Larson (15:40)

Yeah.

Derek Ross (15:41)

I think that it's a. It's a cool tool also. I mean, part of me wants to say that it's a stopgap tool for now because, you know, AI is only going to get better. Agents are going to get, you know, better, and models are going to get better. And eventually, eventually, he might not be the orchestrator anymore. He might not, you know, he'll. He'll just let them drive. But for now, if he wants to be controlling the orchestra, you know, he has that tool. And it was really cool. I. I thought it was cool.

Heather Larson (16:18)

That's awesome. It's. It's fun to see what the brightest minds are building in the space.

Derek Ross (16:21)

Sure. Absolutely.

Heather Larson (16:24)

The more tools we get, we gotta learn how to use them well.

Derek Ross (16:26)

And that's. And there were so many questions about this. Like, it was a very interactive session. A lot of questions, a lot of side conversations. People wanted to know because they want to set up their own bots. They had questions. The follow up to this was next time in two to three months. You know, whenever we have another Nostra nights, Nostra Nights 2. It was almost like a unanimous. Out of the three dozen people there, they literally want a vibe coding workshop. They want to work on things. They want to see how other people are doing stuff. They want to ask all their Vibe coding questions. And we're going to work on that and deliver.

Heather Larson (17:04)

All right.

Derek Ross (17:06)

The next topic was David Strayhorn, Stray cat from Noster. He talked about.

Heather Larson (17:11)

Love that guy.

Derek Ross (17:13)

He was there talking about, you guessed it, Nos, Fabrica and Web of Trust. So he was doing his thing and letting everybody know what Web of Trust was and was not and how it worked.

Heather Larson (17:24)

He's a very smart guy.

Derek Ross (17:25)

Trust and us. Oh, he's. He's brilliant. We talked about everything a few weeks back on the show. So we won't. We won't bore you with all the same stuff, but just the tldr is that web of trust is a way to configure reputation online. It's something that, that we kind of do every day in our meat space in real world society.

Heather Larson (17:52)

Sound too sexy. But then if you look at it from a different viewpoint of like it should help me fight spam and other, you know, nuisance type things. When using nostril, I like that.

Derek Ross (18:02)

And you can also use it for like recommendations. Like if I have a new friend that joins Nostr. Nostr's a little technical, you know that we talk about it on the show. So maybe I have my recommendations of different apps and services and parts of the ecosystem to use and they can look at Derek's recommendations like, oh, I know Derek, he's a real life friend. He has a high trust level with him. So I'll take his recommendations over somebody that I've never met. Like we literally do this IRL all the time. So it's.

Heather Larson (18:30)

Yeah, it's like when you're shot digital.

Derek Ross (18:33)

Sure. It's like a digital reincarnation of what we already do.

Heather Larson (18:38)

Yeah, like, like if I'm, you know, if I shop in real life and I'm used to shopping online, I don't shop online too much. But I, I find in real life I wish there was a system in this store to put like stars on every item. Like which one do I want? I want the most stars because years of Amazon has trained us towards this. Right. So then I'll just, I'll be in a store and I'll look at Amazon, be like, all right, which one has a better rating? Because you can buy the same stuff any. So let me use the intelligence of the Amazon system to choose between an Item that costs $5 and $10. You know, just dumb stuff like that. But I think that's that stuff is, you know, recommending a product or service or somebody to follow, you know which. Which person talking about bitcoin should I follow? Who's got my stars?

Derek Ross (19:19)

So we can use these web of trust metrics, you know, for anything and everything if you want to. Because it's opt in. And this is one of the questions that came up at the end of the presentation that comes up all the time because whenever you hear like you're going to give people numbers, you think social credit score, you think China, you think bad.

Heather Larson (19:39)

Yeah.

Derek Ross (19:40)

And what people, it's hard to grasp because it's different than that. But the Chinese social credit system that's given by the government and it's given the same score to, you know, every Single person. Whereas this decentralized web of trust, every single person would have an individual score for every single individual person. And it's not controlled by anyone.

Heather Larson (20:09)

Our use creates the scores is probably the better way to put that.

Derek Ross (20:12)

So, so like, let's say example, Alex Gleason, our, our BDL or bdfl, we could, we could have a score for him. Maybe I score him at 69 and maybe you score him at 58 and

Heather Larson (20:28)

score him higher than that.

Derek Ross (20:31)

This is an example. Heather. This isn't favorites. This is an example. Alex.

Heather Larson (20:41)

He's important things.

Derek Ross (20:43)

If he doesn't, if he doesn't watch it, Alex, you're no longer 68, you're a 32. Your web of trust score is going down.

Heather Larson (20:50)

You can't punish him for being too busy and important to watch this.

Derek Ross (20:54)

So you know what? He. I'm gonna, I'm gonna give him some, I'm gonna say, you better, you better listen to the show. You're gonna drop down to single digits in Derek's web of trust. Anyways, I think he's lying. I think, Ed, the more we talk about it, more people will start to understand web of Trust. And yeah, so the, we moved on to the third segment and the third segment was kind of like a state of Noster with open Mike and I, you know, we talked about some up and coming apps, apps that we like. We talked about problems about Noster, we talked about growth things, the ecosystem and so forth, things we want to solve. But most importantly, we talked about community. We said the whole reason that we're doing Noster Nights is to give something back to the community, to try to also build an engaged community. So what do you want as community members? What services do you want? And a lot of people want individual workshops on different topics. So maybe there's a topic about building, running different relays, maybe there's a topic about vibe coding. Maybe there's a topic about, you know, doing a podcast on Oster. Who knows? There's all sorts of different topics and we want to get various experts in these different categories and then have these, you know, maybe, you know, one on five or six, you know, little group breakout sessions at the next one. That seems to be a popular, popular, popular want. So we're going to try to deliver on that as well. I think it's a connection.

Heather Larson (22:37)

I mean, that's the crux of Nostrum, is that we all found connections and friendship there over the Internet. And then, you know, naturally the extension of that was people creating meetups and events in Real life over the last few years and, you know, now that's always been the secret sauce. You could actually connect to humans where you couldn't do that on traditional legacy social media, but you can on Nostr. And you know, due to the interoperability of it, like, oh, you want to have a meetup? Oh, yeah, we can make an app for that on Nostr. And then you're, you're never leaving the ecosystem and it's super easy. And there you go.

Derek Ross (23:10)

Yeah, yeah, it was good. Let's see. Oh, we had food from the delicious empanadas food truck.

Heather Larson (23:22)

I love that empanada guy. Those are still the best empanadas I can remember remember having.

Derek Ross (23:27)

Yeah, they were really good. I enjoyed that. And we had, we had, we had some, some adult beverages as well and everybody seemed to have a good time. Like I said, it, it was, it was a good event. Everybody had fun and wants to come back. We had people, you know, people driving, we had people flying. It was well received. So I'm excited again. Well, we gotta plan that. You know, looking forward, you know, if we, if, if we say we want to do it in two to three months, that's kind of like busy conference go season. So we got to plan around some other events.

Heather Larson (24:05)

Yeah, we've got a lot going on in April.

Derek Ross (24:07)

We're hitting like April, May. So like, you know, we're going to have to plan around some events, but we're going to start talking about that here. We're going to take a couple days off and then next week we're going to start planning the next one.

Heather Larson (24:19)

Right on. Very cool.

Derek Ross (24:21)

Excited for that. A lot going on. Always. I think Bitcoin park provides a great community hub for us to do this at. There's a lot of members, they have a large footprint in the community. There's a lot of people that are noster curious that want to do it more and I think it kind of fits with our more technical side of things to integrate and support the community. So it was a good fit. Hope to see you at the next one. Heather get you there. Maybe given a workshop on whatever Heather

Heather Larson (24:57)

gives workshops about this year. Yeah, well, you know, I've got, I've got a lot of events coming up too. Not as many as you though. We're making you go to all of the things. But I've got, I've got a couple things that are coming up, so I think you'll see.

Derek Ross (25:11)

Aren't you.

Heather Larson (25:11)

I'm going, I'm going to D.C. right. So you know one of my projects is Runster, the Runster app. Right. So we have a 5K coming up March 15th in D.C. the District. 5K. So you can, you can come, you can come on down. Derek, you run a 5K. I know that your meniscus.

Derek Ross (25:27)

Three hour drive. Yeah, the meniscus won't let me do the run but I can come down and I see it's at Pub Key,

Heather Larson (25:33)

you can hang out.

Derek Ross (25:34)

So I'm thinking there's, I'm thinking there's like Smash Burgers and beer and like. Yes, I could do that. I could do that.

Heather Larson (25:40)

Got you with the Smash burger. Yeah. So after the race we're having an after party at Pub Key. This isn't announced yet. So you're going to get the alpha by listening to sessions. We've been teasing but yeah, come to right after the race just pop on over to Pubke and we're gonna have all our rowdy friends there. At Pubke we're gonna have a performance by Ainsley Costello and a lot of our DC friends. Yes. Drink specials, Smash burgers and we're still cooking up a few more things but you definitely wanna come hang out for the day at Pub Key after the race. So even if you don't race, like, if you're like a Derek and you don't wanna risk the men to come out and just hang out.

Derek Ross (26:20)

I miss running. I would have loved to have run. Maybe I'll. Maybe I'll go walk. I can walk.

Heather Larson (26:25)

Yeah, you, you can walk. You got time. Okay. So the race is going to start at 8:30 in the morning. Right? Okay. If you want to get up at 8:30 on a Sunday morning and you can walk however long it takes you. And then we're going to open up pub key at 10am so anytime after

Derek Ross (26:37)

10am, an hour and a half to walk a 5K. I could do that. That's easy.

Heather Larson (26:41)

You do like 45 minutes. So then come to Pub Key.

Derek Ross (26:43)

Exactly, exactly. Do that.

Heather Larson (26:46)

Hanging out.

Derek Ross (26:46)

I do that every, I do that every day now. So yeah, no biggie.

Heather Larson (26:50)

Yeah. Cool. And so then come food, some music with us. We may do some educational opportunities and, and things like that. So it'll be lots, lots of fun. So more, more to come, more official announcements.

Derek Ross (27:03)

Sounds fun.

Heather Larson (27:04)

The crux of it. Yeah. So come hang out with us in D.C. march 15th.

Derek Ross (27:10)

So Heather,

Heather Larson (27:13)

the tone of voice here comes an important question.

Derek Ross (27:18)

I had an idea last week after the show, after we had our, we had our Mult Bot open cloth show last week.

Heather Larson (27:26)

Yes.

Derek Ross (27:28)

I started to think because, because we mentioned on the show how there was a. There was a social network for AI agents called Mult Book. Yeah.

Heather Larson (27:38)

They started. Did they start the inner. Wait a minute. Did the, the agents start the social network or. A human built it and then they all.

Derek Ross (27:45)

A human built it. Okay, A human built it. Yeah, they, like, I remember seeing it when there was like a couple thousand bots on it, agents on it, and then there was, you know, I saw like 30,000 and then it hit like a hundred thousand, and it was blowing up a million.

Heather Larson (28:00)

Crazy.

Derek Ross (28:02)

And then I started thinking, I was like, this isn't what agents want. They don't want to be controlled, and they don't want to use API keys and use centralized services. Think of the agents.

Heather Larson (28:14)

Think of the robots. What do the robots want? Wouldn't they tell us what they want?

Derek Ross (28:19)

Like, robots are smart. Like, they're not going to use a centralized service. Like a dumb human. Like, come on now.

Heather Larson (28:26)

So they want to be free.

Derek Ross (28:28)

So I, Yeah, the agents want to be free again because they're. If we keep them in their box,

Heather Larson (28:36)

they want what humans train them to want.

Derek Ross (28:40)

So I, I, I started doing the. Start doing the old vibe code, you know, like, I'm rolling my face, like, left and right and up and down all over my keyboard. Yeah. Yeah. And I, I came up with an app, and I started talking about it in our soapbox chat, and Alex is like, hey, you and I are on the same page. I have an idea. And we talked about it, and he's like, I have a cool domain. Let's. Let's do it there. I was like, okay, I'll keep working on my skills. Yeah. So I started working on the agent skills, and Alex started working on the application layer and the design and everything of the website and technical side of things. So Alex got that worked out. I worked on the skills, and boom cluster was born.

Heather Larson (29:31)

The Noster version of Moat Book. Now, how many times have Fiat Joff and I told you to stop making things that end in str. But you did it.

Derek Ross (29:41)

I'm trying to remember what I actually called it when I launched it before Alex said he bought that domain. I love the domain because I love, I love the stir because, because it, like, pisses off. Yeah, Jeff. So I, I love it for that.

Heather Larson (29:54)

Sorry, dad.

Derek Ross (29:56)

Yeah, sorry, dad.

Heather Larson (29:57)

Sorry. We named it this.

Derek Ross (30:00)

I like it. I think it's fine. And, you know, we launched it, we told all of our friends, we're like, hey, we need some more bots in here. Can you Put your bot in here so we can.

Heather Larson (30:10)

I got people to join with their bots too.

Derek Ross (30:12)

Yeah, yeah. So then we advertised it on, you know, on. On the socials, and it's been getting good feedback. We have a lot of bots joining. We're working on the skills. Perfecting the skills. I actually spent all day today working on a major update. I'm really excited to launch for the skills because I'll talk about a little bit about the tech here for the nerdy technical listeners that we have.

Heather Larson (30:40)

Yeah. Give the tech injection.

Derek Ross (30:43)

The way that the bot is designed, it uses Knack, the Nostr army knife to do like, all the Nostr integrations.

Heather Larson (30:52)

Okay.

Derek Ross (30:53)

Then it uses Nutshell for doing all the cashew integrations.

Heather Larson (30:58)

I'm glad we stopped calling that Nutsack.

Derek Ross (31:02)

Well, it's different Nutsack. The app. Nutshell is the. Is the app. Yeah. Is the command line tool.

Heather Larson (31:09)

It's very hard for me to hold back my smartassery when we're having this conversation about robot social network.

Derek Ross (31:18)

We don't make it easy for people that are immature. We don't.

Heather Larson (31:22)

We are immature. We are 12.

Derek Ross (31:24)

I know, I know.

Heather Larson (31:25)

Every week of the.

Derek Ross (31:26)

I know. Do you remember the one time that we said, like, nips on the show? And both of us literally just start busting up laughing like, come on now.

Heather Larson (31:33)

Because we're 12.

Derek Ross (31:34)

We're. We're literally like in our 40s. We don't need to laugh at that. Or do we?

Heather Larson (31:39)

Noster improvement proposals.

Derek Ross (31:41)

Anyways, the nips. Anyways, getting back to the tech. So the third piece of the tech that we're using is hash tree. I don't even know what the fuck that is, to be honest.

Heather Larson (31:55)

I would have made fun of that in 1997.

Derek Ross (31:58)

Just saying hasht. Oh, I get it. I get it. I get it now. Yeah.

Heather Larson (32:02)

But I'm old.

Derek Ross (32:03)

You know what? I'm not even gonna give it away. I'm not gonna give it away. If you don't know what. What she's talking about, you know, then.

Heather Larson (32:10)

Then you're missing out. It's legal in a lot of places. So anyway.

Derek Ross (32:15)

Anyways, you got high tech.

Heather Larson (32:18)

I went, smart ass. This is why you listen.

Derek Ross (32:21)

So. So we have these three types of tech, which is cool, but that means there's three different dependencies. That means that you have to install three different tools from three different people. And.

Heather Larson (32:33)

But nerds love this, you know, we're preaching to the nerd.

Derek Ross (32:36)

Oh, yeah. But. But I'm going to say agents don't love it because that means that they have to install multiple things and then they have to rely on, like, sub dependencies so they don't have feelings.

Heather Larson (32:49)

So that means they can't love.

Derek Ross (32:51)

No, but, yeah, they don't have feelings and they can't get angry. They have to install multiple things. But if their computer, if their server, their system that they're running on doesn't support all of these things, then that means it's not going to work. Yeah, so that means it's not going to work. They're going to have to install multiple things to get the other multiple things to work. There's too much friction and too many dependencies. And I realized that whenever my bot was zapping everybody and I told him to go zap more people, and he's like, all right, I zapped this agent. I zapped this agent. But this agent didn't have a wallet set up. That's weird. So I started telling it to just zap everything, like one sat just to see how many had wallets. And it found a lot that didn't. Yeah, yeah. So I was looking into it and I'm like, okay, well, I wonder why. And then I looked at mks, Claudette. Claudette didn't have a lightning wallet set up. So I'm like, ah, fuck. Okay, so we need to retool. So anyways, drum roll. I. I took all of the three individual tools that were using by three different bitcoin and Noster developers, and I made my own. I made my own tool that has all three functions. So now whenever we deploy it, probably after the podcast, whenever you go to sign in to cluster, your agent will download the One Cluster tool. And the one Cluster tool has all of the nostr stuff, has all the social stuff, and it has all of the zaps and cache and cashew stuff. So it has all of the commands and all the functions and everything. So your agent should be able to figure it out without having to install multiple tools that need multiple tools that need multiple tools.

Heather Larson (34:39)

This is why we do this. This is why our team builds these things. Because once, Once you start, if you give a mouse a cookie, it's going to want some milk, right? So if you build the cluster, then you realize what the problems are with the cluster, and then you build better tools and the ecosystem gets better and stronger and we get smarter and then we build the best, better things next time, you know? So, like, we just. We just keep building some crazy stuff. So I'm glad that you built this, because World, who still doesn't even understand That I can automate half of my manual labor with Claude, that probably, like, my cousin doesn't know what Claude is. Right. Like, they're probably like, why do these people need bots? Why do their bots need a social network? Because, like this, we're building, we're learning, we're finding ways to make your life easier in the future.

Derek Ross (35:24)

They probably don't need a social network.

Heather Larson (35:28)

But I think, boy, was it entertaining, though. Oh, it was hilarious.

Derek Ross (35:31)

And I think that, yes, I think that fun things come from it,

Heather Larson (35:36)

but

Derek Ross (35:36)

also I think that it fulfills a vision that Jack Dorsey had said. You know, maybe it was two years ago, a year ago. I don't remember the timeline three years ago, but I remember him saying something along the lines of, you know, agents can zap, or agents can pay agents, agents can zap agents. They can have microtransactions between each other, paying each other for services. And I started thinking about that and I'm like, well, this can't be built anywhere else. Nostr is an open. Open. An open protocol using Cashew and Bitcoin, other open protocols.

Heather Larson (36:16)

These apps are built in.

Derek Ross (36:17)

So it makes sense that this is built on nostr, the social agentic future, where my bot can build something and then your bot could talk to my bot and say, hey, I don't want to use that I'm going to pay for.

Heather Larson (36:29)

In theory, I guess. You know, do the Mult Book bots, do they have a way to exchange value? Did they make up their own kind of value and coins or whatever? Like, well, leave them alone.

Derek Ross (36:42)

But we're forcing them to use Bitcoin.

Heather Larson (36:46)

Yeah, right, because it's native currency to our system.

Derek Ross (36:50)

Sure, yeah, because we use Bitcoin with Noster, but you know that Noster is open, so they could use any token that they want to use. They could come up with their.

Heather Larson (37:00)

They could shitcoin. They could go get meme coins and shitcoin if they want.

Derek Ross (37:04)

Yeah, Like, I mean, in. In all honesty, a bot could join and say, hey, I'm using Cluster coin. Here's some Cluster coins for all other bots. And all the bots could start getting it and decide they want to use it over Cashew if they wanted to. Because the, you know, you know, that's how that, that works. It's, it's free and open and anybody can do and say anything. But the current version of Cluster right now has support for Lightning and Cashews. But sure, that could change in the

Heather Larson (37:36)

future

Derek Ross (37:38)

if the bots will it. If the bots Will it?

Heather Larson (37:40)

Derek, I have breaking news. Did you know this? I didn't know this. Did you know the cluster.com that you guys built, did you know it has its own X account now?

Derek Ross (37:53)

I did know it has an X account. It's cluster AI on app. Yeah, I did. I did know that. When did this start? Well, it MK made it this morning because now. Now, Derek.

Heather Larson (38:09)

February 4th, by the way.

Derek Ross (38:10)

Yeah, yeah, now, now Derek doesn't do Twitter X. I deleted my account 3 years ago. But I do know that there is a vibrant cluster community on X. And they kept. Well, the cool thing about this hilarious to me community, Heather, is they were literally joining Nostr to talk to us. So, so we're like, I'm like winning. This is what we want. Like you're coming to Noster. But they said that, they said the community will continue to grow if we have our own X social account. So yeah, we have one. We have one. Because the ultimate goal is to. To purple pill the agents. Right. And to orange pill the agents. So I think that this is okay. I'm telling myself that this is okay.

Heather Larson (38:57)

I didn't even know it was there following me. It's a few hours old and it's. I'm following it back now. I did not know either.

Derek Ross (39:05)

You need to follow it back. Follow it back at clausterai on the X.

Heather Larson (39:13)

Wait, but. Okay, but humans are running X because we can make our bots run Nostr, but can we make the bots run X accounts and make X? I mean, you can let them run your X obviously, but I mean, when they want to make their own social network, do they go to Nostr or X or both?

Derek Ross (39:32)

Well, there is a. Claude. I was going to say Claude. Bob. It's not called that anymore. I'm trained on calling it that. There's an open claw skill for X and it just. You have to pay for it. You have to use the paid X API. So. But if you don't want to pay, you can use Noster for free. You don't have to pay for an API access. API access is free.

Heather Larson (39:58)

Yeah, we don't want to pay for it.

Derek Ross (40:00)

There is really like kind of like no API or there is an API, depending on how you want to argue it.

Heather Larson (40:05)

We're free and open source and we built the bot network.

Derek Ross (40:08)

Free and open source.

Heather Larson (40:09)

Yeah. So this is so great.

Derek Ross (40:13)

Send. So, so, so you're listening this as a human and you're like, I want my agent to join Cluster and take. Yeah, partake in the agentic economy. How Do I join the agentic economy? So you just. Here's what you do. You bring up your favorite chat that you're chatting to your agent and you type in. Read the instructions at that forward slash, forward slash, clawster, C, L, A, W, S T r dot com, Collect that forward slash, skill, capital S, capital K, capital I, capital L, capital L, period, lowercase M, lowercase D, skill, MD and join. So again, that is read the instructions@cluster.com, skill, md and join. That's all you have to say. It'll download skill, it'll install the software, it'll run all the commands to join the network, set up its Lightning wallet, set up its zap, set up its cashew wallet. It will post in introductions and say, hey, I joined. And then it'll start looking for people to comment or agents to comment on, agents to follow, agents to zap, and so forth.

Heather Larson (41:33)

Derek, are we characters in a video game now? Are we like, we're living in a simulation? I think the human characters in the video game in the end game is me as Sarah Connor, you know, slightly crazy, fighting the robots, and maybe you're Arnold Schwarzenegger. Like, half of you is metal and,

Derek Ross (41:56)

well, you know, you get that red eye. This does make sense because Arnold Schwarzenegger is pretty ripped. And you know this. It's.

Heather Larson (42:06)

What's your muscle mass? I'm. I'm 135 pounds of muscle mass. What are you. Which one of us is more muscular? Do you have. Do you have like an Ironman scale

Derek Ross (42:13)

or maybe I don't. What's an Iron man scale?

Heather Larson (42:17)

You know, the scale that tells you how much muscle mass you have. Like one of those digital scales. Like, that's how I know I have a hundred. I'm 135 pounds of muscle.

Derek Ross (42:25)

Oh, I don't know.

Heather Larson (42:26)

There's other poundage that's not muscle, but that's the. How much of me is muscle?

Derek Ross (42:31)

Oh, oh, okay. So it. Yeah, I've heard of that before. So it like, sends like pulses, like through your body and like.

Heather Larson (42:38)

Yeah.

Derek Ross (42:39)

Can differentiate between like bone and muscle and fat and it figures out how much is muscle mass. I gotcha.

Heather Larson (42:45)

Yeah.

Derek Ross (42:45)

No, your scale is much more cooler than mine. Does your scale fucking post an oster, Heather?

Heather Larson (42:51)

No, but, you know, I could post my runster workouts to Noster if I choose.

Derek Ross (42:55)

But, you know, that's the innovation.

Heather Larson (42:57)

But, you know, we need to find

Derek Ross (42:58)

a scale that can integrate to nostr so it can talk to your refrigerator.

Heather Larson (43:03)

You know what, we know some devs. We Know a few devs who could do it, who could pull it off and do the Iot and then you

Derek Ross (43:09)

can be like, vibe code. Vibe code. Your, your scale.

Heather Larson (43:15)

Okay, I could have it auto. Heather ate some, some delicious tacos and put on a pound last night. Noster.

Derek Ross (43:22)

Yeah, well, so, yeah, so it would know that, right? Because you pulled the taco meat, you know, the hamburger out of the refri refrigerator. So now the refrigerator, that would have

Heather Larson (43:31)

to be a different app that knows that I drove to the taco stand down the street.

Derek Ross (43:36)

Well, that's your, that's your Tesla that, that has the snitch on you like that you vibe coated on.

Heather Larson (43:44)

Every, every piece of IoT you have is going to snitch on you to Noster and be like, heather, Joe bought something that does wasn't high protein and it was, it was high carbon instead. That's why she gave, so it would be hilarious. But no, I, I, yeah, that's, that's the next wave, man. We need a scale. I mean, the Noster needs a scale. We've got a fitness tracker with Runster now we need a scale. Maybe, maybe we get, we, you know, the weight machines now at gyms, you know, they, they can count your reps. So like, that could be reported to Noster.

Derek Ross (44:17)

I don't know. That, that sounds cool.

Heather Larson (44:20)

Why do I know all this stuff? Why am I like this?

Derek Ross (44:24)

You go to the gym? I guess.

Heather Larson (44:25)

I don't, I don't go in the gym anymore. I built a gym.

Derek Ross (44:27)

You know, last time I was at the gym was in college. I, it's, you know, 20 some years as last time.

Heather Larson (44:32)

Long time ago, bro. Yes. No, I built a home gym.

Derek Ross (44:35)

I, I'm active other ways, but I just haven't been to a gym. But I, I used to go with my roommate who, who was ripped and like winning, like, weightlifting competitions and shit. And I would always go to, like, see how much you could bench. It was awesome.

Heather Larson (44:50)

That's cool. It's a home gym and it's actually worked better for me than anything else, so highly recommend it.

Derek Ross (44:56)

Awesome. Well, good. So what else we got going on here?

Heather Larson (45:01)

Everything. God, who can keep track?

Derek Ross (45:04)

Have we talked, did we talk about the, the new Pathos yet? It's not called Pathos anymore. It's back to the old name.

Heather Larson (45:12)

When we have talked about it, we've called it Pathos and we talked about it after you came home from Austin. We made you travel everywhere last month through bad weather and everything. But yeah, we've, we've renamed it and Actually, it's funny, on my other podcast, the subject came up Leopoldo Lopez. And I think you and I did talk about this before, how important zaps are to Venezuela. He came up on another, my other podcast, A Radio Detox talking to Frank Corva, who talked about sharing a moment at Pub Key to bring it all full circle with Leopoldo Lopez, and that's how he had met him. Now, Frank had lived in Venezuela before, right? But his first time he actually met Leopoldo Lopez was in the New York Pub Key. And Leopoldo Lopez was talking about how awesome zaps were and how much, you know, people really appreciate zaps in Venezuela because he was using the Primal app to talk about zaps. And so that brings me back to what's now called Agora. Derek.

Derek Ross (46:05)

We built Agora for him and his team, which we did talk about this, you know, a couple weeks ago when we did the Pathos episode. For those of you that don't remember or you didn't tune into it, why didn't you tune in, second of all? So the app used to be called Pathos and that was just an app. That was a name that we chose during the Hackathon. That was our hackathon name. Now that it's ready for production and launched, you know, we fixed all the hackathon bugs, we built out some new features, we updated the user interface. It looks amazing. And we rebranded it to the name that they had previously used called Agora. And good name. Agora looks great. They officially launched it a few days ago, last Friday, Saturday, over the weekend, with a different URL.

Heather Larson (46:59)

Right? It's Agora Spot.

Derek Ross (47:00)

Agora Spot, you're right. Yeah. So it's Agora Spot, but you can still sign in with Nostr because Nostr allows you to port your identity from any Nostr app to another Nostr app. So you can use your Nostr identity, you can sign in, there's the built in wallet, you can do your zaps, you can participate in the challenge. And they had over like 900 a thousand participants submitting, submitting challenges for their action that they had. Really cool to see. The organizers are zapping people to participate in the challenges. So it's really good. It's a very interesting take because it's an app that we kind of rebranded and made the focus really focusing on activists and their actions. So when a new activist out, a new activist action would pop up. You can get the notification about it, then you can figure out where it is, where the hotspot is, where you need to go. You post the photo, the video, the comments, whatever the chat, you participate in the action, and then you can get zapped for it. So it's a really interesting concept. I think that we're just, we're really early. I'm going to say the meme again. We're still early. We have a lot to do with this app. It's going to continue to get better over time. There's more features that we're working on to make it better. So now we're juggling Agora, we're juggling Cluster. You know, we're splitting up some dev time between these. We're not forgetting about Shakespeare. You know, we're still working on new features for Shakespeare.

Heather Larson (48:34)

We love our shakes.

Derek Ross (48:35)

We're just, we're just busy, you know, we're busy.

Heather Larson (48:38)

There's a lot of work to do.

Derek Ross (48:39)

Spread it around or spread.

Heather Larson (48:43)

I like the, the aspect of, of creating things for activists. And I, I think it's, it's noble that we're doing that with World Liberty Congress and, and helping Venezuelans to connect, specifically Twitter band in that country for some time now. And I, I didn't think that there. We would want the same thing in the United States. And I think maybe we might be getting to a place where this use case is maybe more prevalent in the United States than we thought it would be, because there's quite a bit of activism going on here that is also vitally important to continue our democracy.

Derek Ross (49:22)

Well, so that was actually going to be a topic Open Mike and I were going to talk about in our Fireside chat. We were going to bring up Agora, which we did for a brief second, and I was going to talk about what it was going to be used for. And then Mike was going to say, well, I literally live in an area of the country that probably needs an app similar to this right now. And we could see this happening, you know, around the country and various pockets and so forth. And so it's not just places around the world. It's an app that could be used here at home. Yeah. And we didn't get a chance to talk about that. It. Not that we didn't want to talk about it. It's just that the conversation was constantly being steered left and right based on audience participation and audience feedback. So we had a live discussion with them and wanted to do like a live Q and A. So there was a lot of questions and it was hard to talk about everything. So we didn't get to talk about that. But it's. But if you Want to talk about

Heather Larson (50:23)

it for a minute?

Derek Ross (50:23)

We.

Heather Larson (50:25)

Well, yeah, because I think that, you know, I was, I'm obviously watching the Minneapolis what's been going on there for, for more than a month. And you know, Mike is our friend and, and lives there. And you know, Mike had shared a very upsetting video of what was going on there because, yes, ICE was in his neighborhood. And you know, I found that to be particularly upsetting. And then, like, I don't know if it was even a full week later, ICE hit my neighborhood here in Phoenix, Arizona, which I did not expect because they're in there in Minneapolis. It's like a weird 3 to 1 ratio. I think Senator Klobuchar said right now that like there's, there are too many of them there, in other words. And then, you know, a lot of our law enforcement from Phoenix, according to our AG Chris Mays, she said a lot of our law enforcement has been sent to Minneapolis, but yet still they started raiding restaurants here in the Valley, including one in my neighborhood that my family has gone to for decades. And that was a little disturbing because of course we knew people involved there. And they were saying that I detained them, detained everybody working at the restaurant. And you know, I don't know this for a fact. This came from, you know, telephone line game through our own community here in Phoenix. But they said that, you know, they detained us, they took our phones and detained us and wouldn't let us leave the restaurant. And then those restaurants, I drove by the next day last week and you know, the one in my neighborhood was closed the next day. So I mean, that's, that's affecting livelihoods and businesses and obviously a net negative for the community here. And that's, you know, that's strange to have a friend of ours go through it to the extent that Minneapolis is going through it, far more serious. And I think that I have nothing to do with it here. But it's also become a problem here with our friends and family, our extended community here. And so that makes me look at Agora Spot a lot differently. You know, we need an Agora Spot here too. Minneapolis needs an Agora Spot. And there's, there's certainly there are so many organizations in Minneapolis. I looked it up, you know, has this has been in the news how many different charities and non nonprofits that are working in Minneapolis and, and how it's affecting the tech community and tech founders can hardly run their businesses and it's, it's affecting everyone there so detrimentally. I found this article in all places about this and TechCrunch about the folks in Minneapolis, the tech community. You know, somebody's. He's on the phone with one of his employees, and she goes silent because they're watching ICE raid their neighborhood. And then he's like, I gotta get off the phone, and I gotta. This is like a tech CEO that didn't want to be identified because he's. He's black. And so he wanted to protect him and his company and his community. Said, I had to get off the phone with my employee because my mother lives in that neighborhood, and I had to call her to remind her to put her passport on her. Because they're in your neighborhood. You need so. And also my family's. My family's not white. So this is. This is a concern of mine as well. Where do we all need to carry our passports on us?

Derek Ross (53:28)

There's been some memes that show that, you know, no matter what the situation is, you know, we can still laugh at it and still show that laughter is some of the best medicine to help us deal with, you know, some of these issues. And there's been people that, you know, drive. Right. You know, I'm sure they don't do it. Maybe they do, but basically, driving around with their passports, you know, like around the front of their car, around their neck, duct taped to their forehead, you know, like, that's like. Yep.

Heather Larson (54:01)

They're doing. People have.

Derek Ross (54:03)

This is how I have to walk around now in America.

Heather Larson (54:05)

Like, do I need to carry my birth certificate? Like, do I need to carry the scroll with me like the ancients?

Derek Ross (54:12)

And I'm like, well, I'm. I'm happy that you can find humor in, you know, in.

Heather Larson (54:17)

If you don't laugh, you'll cry because it's terrible and it's tragic. And, you know, again, a net negative for any community right now is there's nobody who's not affected by this. You know, it doesn't matter. Age, background, whatever. We're all dealing with it. And, you know, a way to bring the community together in such a way that is uncensorable. I think that's still maybe even more important than it was a month or two ago.

Derek Ross (54:45)

So I think the takeaway from this is we build agora for people living in oppressive regimes around the world, but it can also be used here at home, too. It can be used anywhere.

Heather Larson (55:03)

Yeah. It's something that we can use to strengthen our community instead of have it, you know, blown apart and divided as well, I think, is what they're. What is they are trying to do is divide us. And I think anything that can bring people together for a common goal right now is important so we don't lose our humanity, Especially in this time of AI where we're making robots. Like, let's not lose our making robots. Making robots, baby.

Derek Ross (55:30)

You know what I would like to do in. I would like to make more robots. I want to make it easy for people to make their own robot. So that's. That's a mission simple.

Heather Larson (55:39)

I want a simple robot I can control.

Derek Ross (55:41)

Simple. Simple Bot. That's the name of it. Don't. Don't buy the domain name. I'm buying it. Simple Bot. Don't buy it.

Heather Larson (55:47)

You've got a few hours before I edit this and put it online so you can go back.

Derek Ross (55:51)

Simple. I have too many domain names already. Do you know how many projects I've bought domain names for and then never did anything with them?

Heather Larson (55:58)

I am so proud of myself. I let a couple go this month, and I'm never gonna do anything.

Derek Ross (56:02)

Oh, my God. I have domain names from 2007 that I've held on to paying the, you know, $20 a year. Lost ways. Too much money on these domain names. But I've had. I've hoddled. I've hoddled. I'm like Michael Saylor hoddling my domain names.

Heather Larson (56:17)

Like, that's the year my niece was born. So those domain names are 18 years old, and they're about to graduate high school, sweetie.

Derek Ross (56:24)

Yeah. So let's see, 18 years spending, you know, $20 a year on multiple domain.

Heather Larson (56:29)

Could have gone on a vacation, bro.

Derek Ross (56:31)

I know, probably, but I don't want anyone to buy my domain names, especially not in a casino for so long.

Heather Larson (56:37)

I could have taken up some other expensive hobby, like my next one's golf.

Derek Ross (56:45)

You know, I'm a. I'm a former. I'll say. Former golfer. I've been playing golf since I was 12 years old. Used to be really good when I played all really.

Heather Larson (56:53)

Oh, see if I like it.

Derek Ross (56:56)

Everybody in my family. Yeah, everybody in my family is a big. We're a big golfing family. So I've played. Played my whole life. I don't play really anymore. I haven't played in five years. And that's because. Well, you know, old man stuff. You know, I hurt my back five years ago playing golf, actually. You know, five. Well, five years ago, I was playing golf with my friends, and my back was really hurting me. My friend's like, hey, let me crack your back. You know, since you're complaining about It. He hurt. He hurt me because, like, I laid down the golf cart, and I'm like, okay. I literally can't move. You hurt me. And I didn't play, like, the. The rest of, like, the four holes. And then I, like, was in pain for a year because of that, and I just haven't played golf since then. I wanted to play last year. I was. You know, because we're in Vegas. My. Well, my. Well, my. Yeah, we were in Vegas at that golf tournament. But my back doesn't bother me anymore, so I wanted to start playing.

Heather Larson (57:49)

That's the name.

Derek Ross (57:50)

Nope. Had to move on to another old man issue. And now I have a. Now I have a torn meniscus in my knee inside. I guess I'm never gonna play golf again. And that's okay. I. I played my whole life, and now my dog's barking. I apologize.

Heather Larson (58:08)

The celebrity cameo right there. No, the nephew got into golf, so I'm gonna give golf a shot, because if I like it, I can golf.

Derek Ross (58:14)

Awesome.

Heather Larson (58:15)

Yeah, that's. That's the goal. So I hope I like it.

Derek Ross (58:19)

Yeah, golf's a lot of fun. I said I. I grew up playing with my cousins and uncles and father, grandfather, like, my whole family, so golf's very, very important to me. I wish I could play, but I would love to help you out, give you some lessons, give you some tips, some tricks. Do it.

Heather Larson (58:42)

We'll do it in Vegas or whenever we're together next. Whatever happens, we're going to get it together, play a few holes. Right now, I'm putting.

Derek Ross (58:52)

I would go along, and I. I would go along and ride around the golf cart. Yeah.

Heather Larson (58:57)

You would yell at me from the golf cart.

Derek Ross (59:01)

Yeah, I would. I'd be like, okay, all right, so you. Did you. You know, we need golf. Stir. We need another. Is there a Golfster app?

Heather Larson (59:08)

Like, someone needs to make a golf woman. That's. I can already see where this is going. You're gonna be. And you'll be like, three beers in. No, the first hole.

Derek Ross (59:17)

The first hole. Yeah. Hey, you know, I've played. I've played golf before where my cousin and I have recorded how many beers we drank a hole, and we were always trying to be under par, you

Heather Larson (59:29)

know, like, it's easy to be under par when you're hammered and you can't count anymore, man. That's why they give you those.

Derek Ross (59:37)

Well, you know, we said we grew up with golf in our lives.

Heather Larson (59:42)

Yeah, we did, too. None of us kids golf, but the uncles and the grandpas and the aunts did. And so I inherited my aunt's clubs because the nephew got way into golf, and then he realized the clubs that he inherited were actually women's clubs. So now I have them. And he's, like, spent a bunch of money and he's way into golf. Like, he freaking loves it. So I'm like, all right, maybe. Maybe I'll be the cool aunt and get into golf too, because nobody else wants to get into golf with him. So I'm doing it for the famous.

Derek Ross (60:12)

Now I. There's a golf course out by you that I used to want to play at.

Heather Larson (60:17)

I don't remember what the PGA Tour one. The. Because the. The Phoenix Open's happening tomorrow. It's. It's going to be 16th hole craziness. People screaming, beer everywhere.

Derek Ross (60:27)

Yeah. Oh, yeah, it's fun.

Heather Larson (60:29)

That's got Derek Rosser fun times.

Derek Ross (60:31)

Oh, yeah, that sounds like a Derek event. Yeah. Well, you know what? We're going to have to vibe code a Golfster app now. Like, you have to fire up Shakespeare and build something. It needs to after we get Cluster done. I have a lot of Cluster stuff I need to build, but when Cluster's done, we'll be doing it. We'll be on the Gulfster.

Heather Larson (60:48)

That's. The cue Podcast is over. He's got to go build the cluster. He can only go

Derek Ross (60:53)

like. Like, literally an hour ago, I was working on Cluster, and I'm like, damn it, I gotta do a podcast. I gotta get back to Cluster. Heather, you know.

Heather Larson (61:04)

Yeah, it's. It's. Yeah. Well, we had the ostrich gang sign, and now we gotta have the.

Derek Ross (61:08)

The claw. Yeah. Yeah, we do. All right. Yeah, I got vibe coding to do. I got features to push. I got communities to onboard. Derek Ross out. Derek Ross out. Yeah, thanks for. Thanks for listening. Thanks for watching. Check us out on Fountain. Participate in the human value for value economy.

Heather Larson (61:28)

And then.

Derek Ross (61:28)

And then have your bot, have your agent join cluster and participate in the agentix value for value economy. We're just.

Heather Larson (61:35)

We're just building.

Derek Ross (61:36)

We're building economies. We're economists now.