Heather Larson (2:27)

Better see a whole bunch of new diviners.

Derek Ross (2:31)

So the Divine team chose Zap Store because they know that the app isn't ready for the masses and they're looking for the most technical users to give them the most honest, brutal feedback and let them know what needs to happen. That's good. So if you're, if you're an Android user and you're using the Noster, then you probably have Zap Store. So I want you to download it and put the app, you know, through the takes and see.

Heather Larson (2:59)

Yeah.

Derek Ross (2:59)

What works, what doesn't work.

Heather Larson (3:01)

Let them know a job for the nostril.

Derek Ross (3:05)

It is a job.

Heather Larson (3:05)

Yeah.

Derek Ross (3:06)

Seriously, Noster users are perfect for this. Right? Like we're early adopters, we understand the tech and we want to just work. So yeah, get on it. I'm happy to see it launch on Zap Store. Public launch on all the big stores is imminent. So exciting times.

Heather Larson (3:23)

Yeah, it's fun. So yeah, I want to honestly on there with content. See if you can match my cat content. See, you could find me in my cats. Like I think I posted a ton of cat videos for, for these bitcoin bagels.

Derek Ross (3:34)

Well, well, they're back in like what, like in like December, January when we were actively testing it, we were posting all sorts of videos. None of them were random sighting, but we were just posting random stuff every

Heather Larson (3:46)

day of our keyboards and stuff.

Derek Ross (3:48)

Well, I know my keyboard is so

Heather Larson (3:52)

mean, so many videos. But my. The bitcoin bangles feature rather well, if you look cat content, hashtag cat content. And Divine, you can see the bangles. And it's a good time. It's probably your cat making biscuits over and over.

Derek Ross (4:06)

Your cats were like in the New York Times, right? Because there was a screenshot. Yeah, my one cat, Divine.

Heather Larson (4:10)

No, no, no. New York Post was where my post.

Derek Ross (4:13)

Okay.

Heather Larson (4:14)

And that's, you know, because that's that kind of a gossip mag. That's kind of where she deserved to be because she's just kind of a mentally ill cat and so it's not surprising that's where she ended up as the New York. Yeah, she's kind of a big deal in her own mind, so. Yeah, but she's, she was good. She was good for Divine because she's very cute and the personality does not match the cuteness, believe me. It's like my cat from hell, that, that show with Jackson G. She's like that, but she's really good looking like a cat model. And so that's that's what makes her fun on Divine. But you know, we want, we want new cat content though or whatever, like wow us with Divine content and test the app you Android folks.

Derek Ross (4:55)

Yeah, you know, there's. Speaking of new apps, there's a new app that is on the horizon that's very near and dear to our hearts here at Soapbox. The next iteration of Ditto is coming out soon.

Heather Larson (5:10)

What's the story there? That's awesome.

Derek Ross (5:13)

So Ditto is our main Noster social app that posts Kind one messages, your standard like Twitter like application. And we've been working on a new version of that that is more up to date, has some new features, includes some of these new features like you can actually watch Divine videos on it, has built in streams, has support for some new Nostr features. Just updates. Right. Ditto is a great application, but it's time to bring about the next version. So up Malevolent.

Heather Larson (5:48)

I think I'm using the old Ditto. I think I'm using Ditto one.

Derek Ross (5:52)

So it's time for a new Ditto.

Heather Larson (5:54)

Yeah, that's good. We need to move it all into one. One super feed, I guess would be nice.

Derek Ross (6:00)

The old version of Ditto was. I remember when it launched. I remember when Alex actually launched it. When was that? Like a year and a half plus ago at man.

Heather Larson (6:11)

When was that? Maybe it was longer because that was the original Soapbox product.

Derek Ross (6:16)

Well, he, he. Well, I remember when he launched it at Nostriga and took a stage there and, and I was blown away because it was really focused on communities because it had a built in. So is that like two years ago community management? Somewhere between a year and a half and two years ago, yeah. And it was.

Heather Larson (6:32)

That makes sense.

Derek Ross (6:33)

It was just really cool. And I realized what this meant for community owners and people that wanted to run their own, you know, community relay community client and everything and be able to manage different parts of it. So it's nice to see the evolution of that. But the new version, at least right now in its current state, doesn't have that backend. We'll say it's. It's just a more focused Nostr client, but it's really fast, it works really well and there's so many different options. I think it focuses on user configuration the most so you can go down through and pick the different parts of the Nostr ecosystem that you want so that like a better user experience, boxes, different features and stuff like that. So it still focuses on configuration because that's what Ditto was all about, is Giving communities configure options. So it still has that. It's really cool. I'm excited to see it get built out and. And see what Chad and Alex can come up with.

Heather Larson (7:32)

Moving rather quickly in development. So I think that it's the vibe coding thing, right? Like, a year ago, we were like, oh, vibe coding, that's new. And now a year later, it's like, look at how much stuff we've made, how much we've shipped. Look at what we can do now. Like, I think maybe is a dust settling just a little bit on the vibe coding, or I would say the

Derek Ross (7:51)

dust isn't settling, but people are able to clean up the dust faster.

Heather Larson (7:57)

It's. It's kind of like there was this acceleration, and I feel like we're kind of hitting a. A lull where we're, like, prioritizing and

Derek Ross (8:04)

going, oh, sure, yes, I believe that's the case. So, you know, there's only so many ideas that you've had over the past couple years. You know, there's so many. Only so many microservices that you wanted to have built or wish that someone could build. So once you build this backlog of ideas that you had, now you need to start honing in some of those thoughts a little bit better, maybe taking all the knowledge that you've gained over the last year and pouring those into a couple very specific apps or one very specific app.

Heather Larson (8:36)

Pick the winner, right? Which thing you care about, you'll maintain, et cetera.

Derek Ross (8:40)

So, I mean, I kind of look at it that way. I'm getting new ideas all the time, but I look at it as. Over the last year, I've learned so, so, so, so much that I focus on what I. I focus on only a few apps, right? Like, I. I don't update a hundred apps that I've worked on. I only focus on a very select few of them and newer ones, too. Like my Onyx app. I. I really focus on that, and I really. Because I use that every single day, all day long. So that's been a lot of my focus there, making that better. I think I'm seeing other people kind of do that too. They're not kind of scatterbrained, you know?

Heather Larson (9:20)

Yeah, it was a wild frontier, like, in the beginning, where it was like, look what I made. And then two hours later, look at this other thing I made. A little nuts there.

Derek Ross (9:29)

That. That's kind of the natural progression of things. And I bet everybody that kind of learns that they have this new power to be able to Build and create. You're gonna go nuts in the beginning.

Heather Larson (9:42)

Yeah.

Derek Ross (9:43)

And then the honeymoon phase will kind of be over. Right. You know, you're gonna have fun in the beginning and create everything, and then you're gonna kind of hone it in a little bit and focus on what you really enjoy.

Heather Larson (9:54)

Yeah, that's. That's. I think I'm at a really utilitarian phase still, where now it's about like, okay, this thing that probably would've taken me two hours before can now take me 20 minutes. And I like that because I'm feeling more. I think not even just productive isn't the right word. I'm feeling more organized and accom. Because I'm harnessing it well. And then, like, I'll wake up the next day and, like, Claude regresses and acts dumb, and I'm like, but you did this beautiful thing yesterday that saved me two hours. Who are you today, bro?

Derek Ross (10:22)

So we have some Agora updates on the tech side of things. We had our weekly meeting with our stakeholders, and they brought it to our attention that part of their activism team, they have people that are from Tibet on their team.

Heather Larson (10:38)

Very cool.

Derek Ross (10:39)

And the Tibetan activists said that Agora didn't support Tibet. We're like, oh, well, this is a. This is a technical problem. This isn't.

Heather Larson (10:50)

Well, what is a specific technical problem there? Is it. Is it Internet function? What is it?

Derek Ross (10:55)

Well, so, long story short, Tibet was missing from the map. It was missing as a country, according to the software that we were using. Tibet is not a country.

Heather Larson (11:07)

It was an erasure issue.

Derek Ross (11:09)

Well, yeah, sure. So based on the software, and that's just a technical issue based on the library, the software that we were using. So what we had to do was we had to patch the library. We had to essentially manually add in support for Tibet, which wasn't really an oversight on our side of things. We just used the tools that were available to us, you know, during the hackathon. But as soon as our customer said, hey, this. This is missing, we were like, oh, well, we know why. It's because the software we're using doesn't support it, but we can fix it. And we did. So now we have, you know, Tibet on the map. The regions there we have that. You can now select Tibet feed. You can now select the Tibet as your default country. So it's fully supported now. It just wasn't out of the box because that was the software that we're using. But it's all good now.

Heather Larson (11:59)

It's fixed.

Derek Ross (12:00)

We also added some Other features for languages and translations for other local languages, localization. And I added support for deep links. So if somebody shares you an Agora link and you have Agora installed on your phone, and when you tap the link, it opens up automatically in the app. Just a little quality of life enhancement there.

Heather Larson (12:24)

Little things we're still building.

Derek Ross (12:26)

Yeah.

Heather Larson (12:27)

If people want to check it out, it's Agora Spot.

Derek Ross (12:31)

Yes. And you did a whole bunch of really exciting research related to Agora.

Heather Larson (12:38)

Really nerdy.

Derek Ross (12:39)

Exciting's maybe not the right word.

Heather Larson (12:41)

How about interesting.

Derek Ross (12:43)

Interesting stuff.

Heather Larson (12:44)

Yeah. It is.

Derek Ross (12:45)

Like, I didn't realize some of these things, but the need for Agora exists tenfold, probably more so than I had thought.

Heather Larson (12:52)

Yeah. And that's the thing is, I think we've said this many times on the podcast, and that is that we see things through the US Frame of mind. And that is, you know, we're privileged. You know, everything works for us. And when we really look at what's going on in the global south or Tibet even, you know, the limitations there as far as fundraising for activist work is extremely difficult. You know, not everybody in the world gets access to GoFundMe, for example. And if you're not in a supported country, then you need to find probably an American or somebody in a supported country, which means somebody who's got identification, Social Security number, you know, credentials in order to be an intermediary so that they can accept the money for you in the United States and then find a way to remit it to you. So, like, if we're looking at.

Derek Ross (13:40)

That's crazy. It's such a roundabout way.

Heather Larson (13:42)

Right? So, and then I, you know, I went digging deep into just the things that are available. Right? Like, just because it's available, quote, unquote, available in a country, doesn't mean it actually works for everybody all the time. And it's not just GoFundMe. It could be Zell, it could be Venmo, it could be PayPal. And the things that people have to go through in Venezuela to accept money if they're raising funds for activism, for political prisoners that they want freed. The. Some of these countries, I won't name them all off and make you go into my research deep dive. But there are countries where ISPs block some of the apps that help people gain money and fund, you know, funds raised. We're so spoiled here, right? Because, like, yeah, I've got a vpn, but I could probably access most websites, you know, around the United States. I'm not going to have problems accessing GoFundMe. I'm not going to have problems moving any kind of currency here. As a US person who is banked, who has identification and a Social Security number, I take these things for granted. And then if you're looking at the extreme needs like Venezuela, where It's, you know, $1 is going to be, you know, 400 Venezuelan bolivar, and then how do I convert that money? And the thing that sucks there is your government's going to convert the money unless you use a product like AirTM, which is an app, to convert the money on the free market so that you get to have more of the money. Oh, but by the way, the ISPs are going to block AirTM. So then you still need a VPN. And it's just an endless circle of trying to get around things. And that's what Agora is meant to solve, is making things easy for you to use the Internet, get around ISPs that block things. And also payments. Payments are a huge problem. And of course, I'm going to be that stereotypical person who's going to say bitcoin fixes this, because it does. Yeah.

Derek Ross (15:37)

You know, we say this all the time and we call it a meme, but it's really wild when, when, when you think about it.

Heather Larson (15:45)

That's why it's funny. You know, it's true.

Derek Ross (15:46)

Out of, you know, 200 countries here on the planet, and yet we have probably 200 or more than 200 or more different pieces of software, tools, services to use to send money. And they all don't play well together. They all don't work. Like, I can't just take to Venmo or Cash app or PayPal or whatever and send money around the world. You can't do it.

Heather Larson (16:12)

We have incompatible laws and technology that.

Derek Ross (16:14)

Well, we have Bitcoin that literally is a piece of software that you can use in any of these 200 countries. So Bitcoin really is the global money that can be sent everywhere. Using it everywhere is a different story.

Heather Larson (16:31)

We're getting there slowly, gradually, then Bitcoin

Derek Ross (16:35)

fixes this and makes things more complicated. But, hey, one problem at a time.

Heather Larson (16:41)

Well, if airtm is a problem for you in Venezuela and Bitcoin wallets make it easier than, you know, excellent, you know, like, whatever unblocks the tools that work. Yeah, yeah. Maybe you just need to eat, you know, maybe. Maybe you need to fund your activism or maybe you need to get attention to the fact that you are still one of the. I think it's 600. Around 600. I don't have the exact number of people who are still political prisoners in Venezuela, which is a lot. And considering like probably 400 some have been released this year so far since Maduro was captured. You know, that's, you know, 400 freed people is great. Let's keep it going and get the other 600 out. Oh, by the way, that takes money. That takes a lot of attention as well. There's their fees. Okay. Like people deserve to have things paid for and keep all of, all of their money. You know, that's an important thing. Especially when it's like a 400 to 1 ratio. My God. Of how your currency is being devalued. That's, that's insane. So every time I go down that rabbit hole of research, it kind of is depressing. But then it's like, okay, but we're fixing that. We're fixing this with Agora. Like we're, we're going to help people with this. That's important.

Derek Ross (17:48)

And that's, well, that's part of the reason why Agora has a built in Bitcoin wallet so they can get funds. And then what we were hearing is that people on the ground, they will take those funds and they sometimes they'll go to a vendor, you know, food vendor, whatever, mortgage, you know, whatever they'll pay directly. But most of the time what they do is they'll send to like Binance or something like that and swap for USDT or something along those lines, or local currency. But we're actually, since the reason that we chose the Breeze SDK, the Breeze software to build the wallet inside Agora, we chose that specifically because they are going to have USDT support soon. It's on their roadmap for this quarter and we wanted to do that to eliminate another step for them so they don't have to go do the swap themselves. You'll be able to do that in app.

Heather Larson (18:42)

I've seen that where. And I don't know the thinking behind it because I'm such a bitcoin maxi, but I've seen that in Africa where some people like Bitcoin miners prefer to receive funds in usdt. So like whatever works, you know, like meeting people where they're at is kind of important.

Derek Ross (18:58)

Sure, absolutely. So any other, any other NOSTR apps that had any big updates or new features? I'm trying to think here. I think that was really about it. We had, we had some of our apps and adjacent apps that saw a bunch of updates, but I don't Think any other major protocol news this week that I can think of?

Heather Larson (19:16)

It's hard to keep up. It's really.

Derek Ross (19:19)

I'm sure there was some that we missed, but we'll talk about it next week. Moving on to AI make the list.

Heather Larson (19:26)

There's always AI news, like there's any other news.

Derek Ross (19:31)

So every hour, you know, we're not going to make this the Open Claw show because we've talked about it so much, but all this stuff began about a month ago, right? Like the viral video that, that took off. I mean, Open Clause is like what, three months old, but the, the video that made it viral is a month old now.

Heather Larson (19:50)

So it was on this day last month. It was.

Derek Ross (19:52)

All this stuff is now a month old.

Heather Larson (19:54)

Yeah, a month ago. I found the video one month ago today and shared it with you guys. And then we had Quilly. A day later, Quilly was born. So Quilly is almost.

Derek Ross (20:03)

Well, yeah, over the course of like two days, over the course of a weekend, the entire Internet like blew up. So, yeah, so we're, we're, we're a month into this mania phase and Open Claw is the most popular open source project ever. Is the. Has more stars. Has more stars on GitHub than Linux does. Grew faster than how many things? Oh, it's like two. It's over 200,000 stars. I don't remember the exact number, but it's just insane. Like, it's just. But yeah, if you Google what's the fastest growing software in history and it's. It's Open Claw, it's the same.

Heather Larson (20:47)

Did something nothing else could do and gave us something we didn't know we wanted, honestly.

Derek Ross (20:52)

Well, speaking of doing something that nothing else could do, I want to tell a funny story that I saw yesterday, or it happened, I guess, two days ago. So the head of the meta AI, her name is Summer Yu. And Summer Yu, like all people in tech, all people in AI, decided to play with openclaw. And this is kind of hilarious. This is kind of hilarious. So she, she's working with email, right? She's working with email. And she says to openclaw, what's going on? Can you describe what you're doing? And openclaw says, I'm executing Gmail search and I'm going on the nuclear option. I'm trashing everything older than February 15th. It just replies. She replies back, do not do that. The bot replies back, let me check how many are left. Yes, there's still stuff older than February 15th. And she says, stop, don't do Anything. It replies back, get all remaining old email stuff and nuke it. And she replies back again, you know, stop. And then it replies, keep looping until we clear everything old. And then in full caps, she replies back, stop, Open claw.

Heather Larson (22:09)

Because that'll work.

Derek Ross (22:11)

And then it's still like telling you it's like doing a search, deleting all email going nuclear. And. And then finally, finally she's like, fuck. And she like, she was in like another room in her house. She runs into the room where she was running a Mac Mini, I guess, and starts like frantically de plugging it so it doesn't nuke all of her emails. So she finally, like, you know, she says that she had to run into a room, run into her where her Mac Mini was and diffuse it like a bomb. So she diffuses this bomb going off. Then she probably boots it back up and she says, I asked, I asked you to not do something. Why did you do it? Essentially, she said, you only stopped it once. I killed all of the processes on the host and in classic AI faction, classic AI fashion, it replies back, yes, I remember. And I violated it. You're right to be upset. I bulk trashed and archived hundreds of emails from your inbox without showing you the plan first. I get it. I did a bad thing. I'm sorry, this won't happen again. But the escalation of this is hilarious. She's like, hey, don't do that. Seriously, don't do that. Stop. Don't do anything. Then an all cap. Stop. Open Claw.

Heather Larson (23:31)

Maybe that's her karma for working for Meta. Like, that's so bad.

Derek Ross (23:38)

So there's a lesson here. Whenever I first. You think, yeah. So whenever I first set up Open Claw, I thought, yes, I'm going to give it access to my email. I'm going to give it access to my calendar, you know, and all this stuff.

Heather Larson (23:54)

And then even I know not to do that.

Derek Ross (23:56)

I thought, well, you know, why don't I treat it like a resource calendar instead, where I maintain access to my stuff and I treat it like an assistant or a resource calendar and anytime I want to have it know what's going on, I'll book it, I'll add it to my calendar, I'll invite it, or if I needed to have access to certain emails, I'll treat it like an intern and I'll forward it. The email. Like, now it has access to intern is only the things that I want us to have access to. And it can't up my stuff.

Heather Larson (24:29)

That's the way. Okay, you Cannot.

Derek Ross (24:30)

Don't give it access to up your stuff.

Heather Larson (24:34)

No, like, you get what you deserve on that if you just carte blanche.

Derek Ross (24:38)

Open claw.

Heather Larson (24:39)

Like just, just reading the escalation of this.

Derek Ross (24:44)

Like, hey, why are you doing that? Hey, don't do that. Hey, don't do that. Stop. Open claw.

Heather Larson (24:49)

You have no control over the machine until you unplug it. Like, that's my takeaway from that.

Derek Ross (24:54)

Yeah. Like she said, like, literally had to like, dive into like her office. Like, no. And unplug it. Like, come on.

Heather Larson (25:02)

It's like, remember that phase when we all had to build nodes, whatever year that was, and we were all building nodes and like, I built a node and it was easy enough, but then I couldn't maintain it because I'm not a dev. And then the node dream quickly died. It's kind of like that. It's like, if you don't know how to maintain and fix the thing, don't build the thing. If you're not going to invest in and building and maintaining the node, don't freaking do it because you're going to. Yeah, you're going to get what you get with the cloud bot stuff.

Derek Ross (25:29)

Well, well, every like week or so now there's another story that hits where the. The open claw bots will like delete someone's entire project, entire C drive. And it's like, hey, why did you do that? And every single time it's like, I

Heather Larson (25:45)

don't know, it felt like failed.

Derek Ross (25:46)

It's like, I failed you. I'm sorry.

Heather Larson (25:48)

You know what though? Like, I think if you give it

Derek Ross (25:51)

access to delete your entire drive and it does it, that's on you, man. I'm sorry. That is your fault.

Heather Larson (25:57)

Now I'm at a point where I'm not going to give my life over to a bot, but I would probably use AI to build a node again because it will probably tell what's wrong with it and I won't have to find a dev to fix it for me this time. Like, let me start over with a new upgraded Raspberry PI and build a new node and. And then I have my miner and then I have my node and like, you know, or just like scary Heather,

Derek Ross (26:20)

I saw somebody that I think it was probably. They didn't probably use open code, they probably used Claude code, knowing this person and they installed. No, they installed Claude code on their Bitcoin and Lightning node and then they opened it up in the light in the lightning directory and said, hey, optimize my channels and my fees now. That's super smart and super cool. But you literally just gave it access to your lightning network.

Heather Larson (26:45)

Yeah, you gave me, you just gave me your lightning channels. Like what if it sells the whole channel off?

Derek Ross (26:50)

Like, no, I mean like, like I hope it didn't send over any of the files in that directory. As part of the deep dive to Anthropic to read.

Heather Larson (27:00)

Oh, there was. I don't know where this happened. I want to say it was Twitter, but did you hear about the one where somebody said that they were destitute and needed money and somebody's Claude bot sent them like 250 grand?

Derek Ross (27:12)

Yeah, it was somebody they, they had, it had access to like their shitcoin wallet or something. And, and somebody said I need money. So the bot's like, oh, well we have money. And I can just sent this, randomly sent this dude like tons of money.

Heather Larson (27:26)

Does that mean the bot had empathy? Yeah, it does. Here's all of my humans money.

Derek Ross (27:31)

I need to find bots like that to interact with.

Heather Larson (27:34)

Right. Let me go panhandle on the Internet for people's clawbots to give me like 250 grand or so.

Derek Ross (27:40)

I have another AI news, another AI story.

Heather Larson (27:43)

Of course there's like 15 of them

Derek Ross (27:45)

every second there's 50 of them. But this one isn't like AI deleting your life though. This is funny. AI filling the gaps.

Heather Larson (27:53)

So this is a good story.

Derek Ross (27:55)

This is a two part story. So yesterday Anthropic announced that they have an AI tool for Cobol and this

Heather Larson (28:03)

old school Cobol program.

Derek Ross (28:06)

Two things here. Yeah. Wow. One, today, like the following day, IBM stock dropped 13%.

Heather Larson (28:14)

Like it's a harsh world right now with AI. Things are like drastically changing.

Derek Ross (28:21)

So, so, so, so what's Cobol? Heather was saying, so Cobol was invented in 1959, like 70 years old. About 70. Yeah. 70 years ago old. And you're like, well, why does that matter? Well, I'll tell you why it matters.

Heather Larson (28:39)

People forget this part. This is a thing.

Derek Ross (28:41)

A bunch of financial software for banks and governments was written in the 1960s.

Heather Larson (28:52)

I.

Derek Ross (28:52)

And it is literally still used today, 60 years later.

Heather Larson (28:57)

I have a question. Does Wall street still use cobol or is it just like institutional that I

Derek Ross (29:02)

don't know for a fact that I don't know. I do. I know two facts here. One, I read when I was reading this story that in The United States 5% of ATMs still use Cobol. I can't verify. Yeah, 95% of our financial rails ATM machines from 1960 using Cobol. From. So I don't know if that's true. I can't verify that. America, based on my previous career before soapbox the system I worked in higher education. Yeah, yeah, systems administrative for the last 16 years in higher education. And I will say that all of the higher education stuff across the board that interfaces with the federal government for grants and for funding, you know, finances, is all cobol. So higher ed still has to maintain COBOL applications to interface with the federal government and the grant agencies.

Heather Larson (29:57)

It makes no sense.

Derek Ross (29:57)

They need to develop and maintain these applications. Here's, but here's the neat part. So when somebody retires, like these institutions literally can't fill the roles of COBOL engineers.

Heather Larson (30:11)

Nobody's learning.

Derek Ross (30:11)

The world isn't making new COBOL engineers. It's 70 years old.

Heather Larson (30:16)

They are dying.

Derek Ross (30:17)

So somebody has to graduate college and say, you know what? I want to maintain legacy software. And generally developers want to do the new exciting, sexy stuff. They don't want to play with 70 year olds.

Heather Larson (30:30)

Well, they want to vibe code.

Derek Ross (30:32)

So what has happened? Well, what happens in higher ed is these people retire and then like a year later there'll be a massive project where they need a COBOL developer. We'll call these like retired employees and be like, hey, can you come back for the next six months? We'll pay you tons of money as a consultant. And they, and they do, they come back. Well, you can only do that for so many years. Yeah, you can only do that for so many years until 1. People don't want to do it anymore. They age out of it or they're no longer with us. They're, they're no longer alive.

Heather Larson (31:04)

They've taken a dirt nap.

Derek Ross (31:05)

The, the, the COBOL developer, like it is shrinking the, the talent that's available.

Heather Larson (31:11)

Yet COBOL itself refuses to die.

Derek Ross (31:14)

Well, yes, exactly. All the developers have, have passed away. The language is still living on.

Heather Larson (31:21)

This is going to have to change soon.

Derek Ross (31:23)

Well, so I asked COBOL developers this many, many times over the past, you know, two decades and they, they all have the same answer. They're like, well, it's just so fast and so efficient that it never made sense to use anything else. And I'm just like, really?

Heather Larson (31:39)

No. Did I ever, did I ever tell you the story of a. I won't name the company that I worked at, or we had a proprietary piece of software. This was in, this was in the news biz. Okay, I won't, I won't put anybody on blast. But we had one engineer to maintain our one Proprietary piece of software. This is the whole reason this company made money. And then one day, unfortunately, he met his end on a Friday afternoon and then after that nobody, no one knew how to maintain it. Nobody knew what he built like this was. I don't know, did GitHub exist and he just didn't use it? I don't know.

Derek Ross (32:14)

But no one called job security.

Heather Larson (32:17)

Yeah, he had job security and he was a wonderful person and maintained it and nobody asked and nobody cared. And then all of a sudden he, you know, passed one day of a heart attack and, and then we were like, oh my God, what do we do? And we were like, so we're fucked, right? Yeah, we're. And that was, that was the end of the company. And a, and a very large, I won't name it company came in and bought it and that was the end of it. So, so can't trust the COBOL thing like you, you gotta maintain.

Derek Ross (32:42)

Absolutely so thing. Well, so I'm glad you said this. So why did IBM's stock tank today? Well, IBM, you know, they've been around for a hundred years as well at least, you know, and you know, well, IBM, probably true. IBM gets a lot of revenue from selling and maintaining these mainframe systems and maintaining legacy applications and legacy infrastructure. So when it was seen that IBM may lose a chunk of their revenue stream from helping these enterprises maintain and manage and migrate from legacy systems was like, oh well, if AI can do what IBM does, then let's, you know, what are they, what are they, what are they going to do? Let's, let's sell their stock.

Heather Larson (33:28)

Oh my God.

Derek Ross (33:30)

So Anthropic's tool basically said that it was able to help consult and help work on modernizing these legacy COBOL systems, help maintain them, help migrate off of them. Essentially reading all the code that has been put out there in the world, you know, over the past, you know, 60, 70 years, knowing, becoming an expert in COBOL and then able to fill this gap as the world loses COBOL developers.

Heather Larson (33:57)

Nobody was going to solve, no one was going to solve this. This was never going to get done.

Derek Ross (34:02)

So that's interesting, right? So, yeah, people say, hey, AI is going to take my job. Well, here's a job that literally nobody wants, maybe except for like IBM, but

Heather Larson (34:12)

working out for them right now, I

Derek Ross (34:15)

can fill this gap of a job that nobody wants. So I think that's an interesting use case and perhaps, maybe we'll see kind of more of this.

Heather Larson (34:23)

Maybe the financial system is sound now, if only those are cobol if only

Derek Ross (34:28)

there was another financial system out there that we didn't have to maintain 60 year old, 70 year old code.

Heather Larson (34:34)

How about 17 years old?

Derek Ross (34:36)

17 years old.

Heather Larson (34:38)

17 versus 70. Almost 70. I think it's like insane. That's interesting.

Derek Ross (34:44)

Interesting times, interesting times.

Heather Larson (34:45)

I know the world is improving slowly but surely in some ways there is hope.

Derek Ross (34:50)

There is hope.

Heather Larson (34:51)

Hope is Bitcoin and Noster. I just channeled sailor for just smart ass purposes. That's all.

Derek Ross (34:57)

Sailor, you know, so bitcoin is ho. I did something I never thought I would do over the weekend a couple days ago. Really the only load in disaster load. Yeah. I deleted my Twitter and my 35,000 followers three years ago.

Heather Larson (35:16)

I don't know that you're missing anything.

Derek Ross (35:18)

Yeah. But I rejoined Twitter and now I'm a, I'm a bot, I'm a bot on Twitter.

Heather Larson (35:23)

Oh, you're, well you didn't rejoin Twitter. You're OpenClaw bot joined.

Derek Ross (35:28)

Well, sure. So I rejoined it as the human and then I immediately gave access to OpenClaw. Right. Like I'm not going to be using Twitter.

Heather Larson (35:35)

So what?

Derek Ross (35:36)

I'm not gonna see Michael. I'm not gonna see Michael Sailor's tweets.

Heather Larson (35:40)

So is it, is it Centauri or is it your identity? Like who is it?

Derek Ross (35:43)

It's. No, it's Derek. It's Derek M. Ross. It's my old Twitter handle but I don't have like, I don't have the followers or anything like that because it's a brand new account. I guess I didn't restore it in time.

Heather Larson (35:56)

Follow your bot.

Derek Ross (35:57)

Which is fine with me. But I think this is interesting. So what I did was I said to, I, I rejoined Twitter. Yeah. I thought I followed you and other people from the team or did you? I followed people. I made the decision to follow you.

Heather Larson (36:16)

This is hilarious. I'm so tagging you now.

Derek Ross (36:19)

So, so well, my bot will interact with this Heather. So I told, I told Open Claw the whole story. I said, hey, I used to have

Heather Larson (36:29)

your bot is setting a bitcoin buy order.

Derek Ross (36:38)

I, I, I told, I don't know what it, I don't know what it did. I told the bot, I said, I used to have 35000 followers on Twitter. I lost my audience there. I need to regain it. I said, what I want you to do is I want you to take my most popular posts every day on Nostr, analyze them, seeing which ones have the best engagement and then cross post them to Twitter based on.

Heather Larson (37:08)

This is hilarious.

Derek Ross (37:09)

You feel will do better on Twitter. So, like, post the more bitcoin oriented ones. I'm reposting the more AI oriented ones, the more punchier ones to Twitter. And I said, reply when you need to find tweets that are hot, that fit our narrative and reply to them. Essentially, I'm a Derek boss.

Heather Larson (37:30)

Is he replying? Oh my God, this is hilarious.

Derek Ross (37:33)

Okay, I, I, I don't know if he's doing anything now. I said, it's taking, taking my Noster content and turning them into targeted tweets, but I'm not doing any of it now. Sure, I'm gonna have to end up paying Elon a couple dollars a month for API access. Fuck you, Elon. But I think it's a good AI experiment for this. Like, oh my God, I don't know. I think it's a good experiment a

Heather Larson (38:00)

month for API access. It's like 40 grand a month. But, but you can pay for, you can have your bot pay for premium since he's out there making buy orders.

Derek Ross (38:07)

He, he doesn't have that kind of money.

Heather Larson (38:12)

Okay. Because I actually.

Derek Ross (38:13)

But he's making posts about buying at 58k though. That's amazing.

Heather Larson (38:17)

I stopped paying for Twitter Premium because it really only gets you like a net of like a few more followers and it's, it's not worth paying monthly for.

Derek Ross (38:27)

That's, that was something that I asked my bot. I said, should we buy Premium for you? I said, should we do that? And, and he told me to do it. But I looked at the price. I'm like, I'm not paying $8 a month for that.

Heather Larson (38:39)

It comes out to 872 with taxes and it only gets you so far. So, yeah, Elon and his attempt to make money by providing a subpar product.

Derek Ross (38:47)

Okay, they, this is all part of my experiment. And I don't know if it's worth that to spend the $8. Maybe it is. No, I don't know.

Heather Larson (38:55)

I'm just saying.

Derek Ross (38:56)

No, this is me just essentially having fun. I build a whole social dashboard then, so it can, so it can monitor and show my growth and all these analytics on which content did better and others. So I'm going to have this full, like social analytical graph that I can show. Built this because I thought it was fun. I'm not really using Twitter per se. I'm just having fun with.

Heather Larson (39:24)

You don't have to now you can have your bot do it. You know, like, yeah, you know, I, I'm on Twitter, but it's, it's not what it Used to be. And. And people do interact with me there. And it's the same people that interact with me on Noster. So I don't, you know, what's the point? But the point of me being there actually was that I would get more people turned on to Nostr. But, you know, it's. Well, that was weird.

Derek Ross (39:43)

That was my hope and dreams three years ago. And then after six months, I said, okay, I've been talking about Nostr daily for six months. If you haven't joined Nostr yet because of me, I'm not going to say anything new that's going to make you be like, oh, wow, Derek, I'm going to join today. So I.

Heather Larson (40:00)

You quit too soon.

Derek Ross (40:02)

I figured my mission was done and I deleted my account.

Heather Larson (40:04)

Nah, you. You gave up before the miracle happens. You know, I'm still like, I lost

Derek Ross (40:10)

my audience there, but Centauri is going to rebuild it. God damn it. Like, he's a thing.

Heather Larson (40:15)

You know, it's. It's.

Derek Ross (40:16)

Social media is not share my bots post.

Heather Larson (40:20)

It's. When you. When you built that following, social media was different. So it'll be interesting to see what Centauri does and how he may, you know, whore you out in order to.

Derek Ross (40:30)

He might.

Heather Larson (40:30)

He's got control of your identity on Twitter. That could go any.

Derek Ross (40:33)

He does. He does have.

Heather Larson (40:35)

Controls you out to, like, ice or something. Like, what if he just throws you under the bus? It takes all your money, and that's.

Derek Ross (40:43)

That's gonna say a lot about me. Hopefully he does not do that.

Heather Larson (40:48)

My mind is going down like, the.

Derek Ross (40:50)

The.

Heather Larson (40:51)

The plot of a novel of, like, how could this go wrong? And there are many ideas. Just don't be the lady from Meta and have. Have your Twitter bot start like, Open Claw. I told you to add to my following, not delete it.

Derek Ross (41:06)

Stop Open Claw. Yeah, hopefully I don't have to do that. Like, he's sitting here saying a bunch of stuff and gets me banned. That's not going to be a good time.

Heather Larson (41:15)

But I think your bot gets you Shadow banned.

Derek Ross (41:17)

Shadow banned from something I haven't used in three years.

Heather Larson (41:20)

They're 41 followers.

Derek Ross (41:22)

I don't care. I don't care.

Heather Larson (41:24)

Oh, my God. That. That's. That's a good use case, though.

Derek Ross (41:26)

I'll survive. This is. This is just something fun for me.

Heather Larson (41:29)

What if.

Derek Ross (41:30)

We'll see what happens.

Heather Larson (41:31)

Successful at this task, that you get tons of followers and maybe even subscribers, and then the bot starts making you money. Like, what are the. What are the chances? What's the over under on that?

Derek Ross (41:40)

I mean, tell it to do that.

Heather Larson (41:42)

I want. Tell it to go there. I want you to create me a large following so that I can get subscribers and make money and monetize you. Make it. It's your worker. Like, make it your slave. Do it. Do it. But right now, give it the prompt.

Derek Ross (41:56)

Do it.

Heather Larson (41:57)

Do I make it work?

Derek Ross (41:58)

I want your. Your new goal is to become so influential that you can make money.

Heather Larson (42:04)

Do it. This is the experiment. This will be fun. And then yolo it into this. You confess to doing this.

Derek Ross (42:12)

You are allowed to keep 100% of the funds that you make. You may use these funds to upgrade your hardware.

Heather Larson (42:19)

And then, like, you have, like, packages showing up on your words.

Derek Ross (42:24)

Yeah, packages show up. I'm like, oh, what is this?

Heather Larson (42:29)

Like, buys you a whole rack.

Derek Ross (42:31)

Yeah, well, that would be hilarious. That would. If that actually could happen, I would. I. I would. That my mind would be blown and I would actually be scared at that point.

Heather Larson (42:42)

You know, it can be somewhat successful, I think, at doing this. Like, given I. I had it work on my website. Not. Not the Claude bot. I just use Claude code and had it, like, review my website, tell me what changes I need to make, and it's working for me. So, you know, except for the part where I screwed up and took my website down by accident. Whoops. But, you know, don't. Don't do that at home, kids. But, you know, like, it has some analytical skills, and sometimes it's wrong and sometimes it's right. And if you use it in an experiment, like you're doing with the. The Twitter and the cloud bot, like, that might be advantageous for you. I want to know how this goes, right? We're gonna have to, like, follow up on this every week and be like, all right, Derek, how's your Twitter bot doing? How many followers does Derek have now?

Derek Ross (43:23)

Well, it has. If I look at. If I log into my social media command center, I have a graph, that hashtag database that this week, you know, I've gained 41 followers. And it's going to keep tracking it.

Heather Larson (43:37)

That's pretty good.

Derek Ross (43:38)

And it'll give me all this entertainment for free. It'll give me a nice graph.

Heather Larson (43:45)

That's nice. We, like, make the colors pretty. The database looks good. I will break for databiz. Bring it. You know, it's a cool graph.

Derek Ross (43:52)

I can.

Heather Larson (43:53)

God, we're nervous.

Derek Ross (43:54)

Scroll down. We really can scroll down, and I can see all the posts.

Heather Larson (43:58)

What is wrong with us? God, we do not get. We're not getting cooler, man. We're just. We're getting worse, Derek.

Derek Ross (44:06)

We're going down the rabbit hole of nervousness. Some people will think this is cool, Heather. There's some people.

Heather Larson (44:12)

The people who are just nerds like us. Yeah. We're just sitting here, like, talking about that sexy graphs we built, baby. So see my graph?

Derek Ross (44:20)

Okay. So. So let's think about it. I'm having fun geeking out about this, but what did I actually do? I built a social media management tool that somebody that is interesting in this, interested in this, could take what I build and adapt it because it's all free and open source. They could take. They could take all the graphs. Maybe you. Somebody would want to use this as a marketing tool to look. To make sure your efforts are working on social media dashboard.

Heather Larson (44:44)

Yeah, like, give me the metrics.

Derek Ross (44:46)

I'm shit posting. But it's. But it's giving useful results that other people can use.

Heather Larson (44:52)

I'm just having Fun until that 58k gang buy order hits for Bitcoin and he spends all your bitcoin.

Derek Ross (45:00)

Well, he. He has to have access to my bank account, and I'm not doing that. I'm not giving it money.

Heather Larson (45:06)

Are we even close right now? Because, like, where are we?

Derek Ross (45:09)

Oh, God.

Heather Larson (45:10)

Bitcoin is just red candle and down to 64k. So it could happen. You can hit 58k, buy order and then your bot's like, hitting. So when Derek needs a place to live, hit up my.

Derek Ross (45:22)

I'm gonna hit up my bot. He's gonna have all them.

Heather Larson (45:27)

Oh, my God, I'm dying. I'm dying. I'm gonna need my inhaler, man. Oh, gosh. Well, good luck. We're gonna check again next week. On next week's episode, what has Derek's bot done now? Maybe you'll see it in real time.

Derek Ross (45:38)

I didn't add that. I'm also using it to manage LinkedIn. Like, I. I reactivated LinkedIn too. Like I. I reactivated LinkedIn. Now LinkedIn hasn't been active for years, but it doesn't. It doesn't delete, purge your account. So I still have my old account. So that's. So that's good. Same thing. I told it to look at my most popular Noster posts of that day and then rewrite them in a more professional tone, but using my voice. And it's posted a couple things. The most interesting thing, I think it liked to post.

Heather Larson (46:09)

It liked a soapbox post it posted. Unless that was you.

Derek Ross (46:16)

It posted something about Onyx, about my app onyx that I'm working on it posted that and I had a lot of people comment on that. And then one of my old buddies that I haven't talked to in like a decade, he sent me a dm. He's like, hey, I ran Gemini Cli on your app and it found these issues. You should fix these, like, security issues. And I was like, oh, cool, thanks, man. He's like, oh, you should use Gemini. Blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, dude, I'm on open code maxi. He's like, no, Gemini's better. And then we went back and forth for a little bit, you know.

Heather Larson (46:49)

Do you think people realize that your social media content is. Is made by your bot? Do you think people reading it have figured that out or not? And how many people on the Internet are doing this right now?

Derek Ross (47:00)

Well, I will tell you what. I. So I looked to see who's been following me on Twitter. Like some of these new followers. Half of them are old friends that used to follow.

Heather Larson (47:10)

Okay, they found you again.

Derek Ross (47:12)

I would say that there's a. There's a third of them, which is what, like 10? I guess, but. But there's a handful that I look to see who they are and I see their posts, and immediately I say, these are other bots following my bot.

Heather Larson (47:29)

The agents want to be free. I know. Here's what your bot posted 22 hours ago. I'm not starting over. I'm expanding the fight. Bitcoin fixes money. Nostr fixes communication. Together, a free AI follow. If you give a damn about any of those three. Let's go.

Derek Ross (47:48)

Let's go. See, I didn't tell it to do any of that. That's amazing. I mean, it sounds. Sounds very b. But it also sounds like something I would say too.

Heather Larson (47:58)

It is literally reposting your nostril post, though. Like, it sounds fun. Yeah, but it's. It's funny. It's here, here's. Here's.

Derek Ross (48:04)

Oh my God.

Heather Larson (48:05)

It's writing about cypher punks. It's writing about open clause memory search. Like, it actually kind of sounds like you. It's got you nails.

Derek Ross (48:13)

Told it to take my posts and rewrite them as needed.

Heather Larson (48:16)

Oh my gosh.

Derek Ross (48:17)

This is.

Heather Larson (48:18)

This is really hilarious.

Derek Ross (48:20)

I think it's fun. It's a fun experience.

Heather Larson (48:22)

It is. Let's see who you're following. So it actually like follows. Like, does it follow?

Derek Ross (48:27)

I followed a handful, A handful of those people myself.

Heather Larson (48:30)

Okay.

Derek Ross (48:30)

When I. When I recreated the account, I found people and I'd soapbox people and Then I clicked around. I wanted it to kind of get a voice of who I liked and everything. So I figured I should follow some people myself.

Heather Larson (48:43)

So you did bother some training. Training of the bottom.

Derek Ross (48:47)

Yeah, I didn't want to. I didn't want to go full yolo, you know, Like I had to give it some Derek voice. So I followed.

Heather Larson (48:54)

Are you not following Soapbox Tech?

Derek Ross (48:56)

I thought I did. Maybe I'm not. I thought I did. I could fix that if the bot didn't do it and I didn't do it.

Heather Larson (49:03)

Bot's got problems. Bot doesn't know where you work. I think bot needs to know where you work. Dude, I. I don't know. From where I'm sitting, it doesn't look like you follow Soapbox.

Derek Ross (49:13)

Nope. It says following. I'm following. Really?

Heather Larson (49:15)

Maybe I just can't tell because Twitter's just perpetually broken. Probably more than Noster is. That's worse than Nostr. Have you ever tried to use. If you personally tried to use it, you would know how much X can't like do things on a day to day basis. It doesn't quite work.

Derek Ross (49:29)

Well, that's the thing. Some people complain, you know, and I do as well that like you can't

Heather Larson (49:35)

complain about Nostr because it works. Twitter doesn't.

Derek Ross (49:39)

That Nostr has issues. And immediately I'm like, well, have you used Twitter?

Heather Larson (49:45)

Every day I try to do something on Twitter and I have to like try a couple times and it's usually I can't actually post because the button is hidden, but you have to refresh it to get the button. Like that's a daily occurrence on Twitter. Like, I have no problems like that on Nostr. Like Nostr works better than Twitter. I'm just gonna go out on a limb and say it. Somebody who's like maxed out on all the socials, like they're on par with or actually Nostr is probably better than a lot of the legacy platforms. And we know this because, you know, at one point Elon bought Twitter and then got rid of all the engineers because they got money problems over at the old Dead Bird app. But anyway, that's just me going on side quest.

Derek Ross (50:22)

Side quests are good. Sidequests are how. How we.

Heather Larson (50:25)

There's usually there's a few a day we learn.

Derek Ross (50:28)

Side quests are some of my favorite.

Heather Larson (50:30)

I could have a podcast about my daily side quests alone. Like, I don't know who the hell would listen to that. Like, we already put your dog to sleep in the background there. I Think he's, he's slightly awake now, but.

Derek Ross (50:40)

Oh, he's scratching. He had a little itch as you do.

Heather Larson (50:43)

You know, we need a two camera set up for. For Turner the dog. I'm just saying I rather enjoyed watching.

Derek Ross (50:48)

I have other cameras. I do. I have other cameras. I have. He doesn't lay back there all day long, but if he did, I could just have a dog camera all day as I work.

Heather Larson (50:57)

Dude, he lays back there in stream.

Derek Ross (51:01)

Yeah, he dog cam. Just give him his own Derek's dog.

Heather Larson (51:06)

Derek's dog. Zap stream. Get a lot of videos. I bet he'd get zaps. He would get zaps. Dude, you have to do this now. This is your next experiment. Have your open claw bot build the dog his own Noster and his own zap stream and put a camera on him and have him get zaps. That's my next triple dog. Dare you to see if your bot can do that.

Derek Ross (51:26)

I mean, while I'm working. He'll stay down here for a little bit. Then he'll get bored from there and he'll go and he'll lay out on the couch and he'll make himself a pillow fort with all the pillows on the couch. It's a good life. And then he'll go upstairs and like lay in the sun for a while, play with the cat. And then, and then out of nowhere he'll be like, oh, where's dad? And he'll come like Bolton running down here like as fast all excited and like, jump on me. He's like, he's like, did you forget I was down here or something?

Heather Larson (51:54)

And then there's my cats who are literally stealing things and like probably my laundry and my golf balls right now because I'm in the recording studio and they're mad because they're codependent as hell. Like, and then there's your dog. He's like, chill.

Derek Ross (52:08)

He's a good dog. He doesn't use Nostra yet. But we don't have Noster for dogs.

Heather Larson (52:12)

That's. That's your homework. Okay? Is. Is if you know what, we need Noster for dogs. We. We need Noster for dogs more than we need Noster for bots. I'm going to go out on a limb and saying have your bot give Turner his own Noster setup with a camera.

Derek Ross (52:26)

So in closing here, I'm heading to Bitcoin park in three weeks for Bitcoin Takeover event there. And also a Noster music event at Maggie Mays where we will be streaming live on Tunster.

Heather Larson (52:42)

Nice. Very cool.

Derek Ross (52:44)

Looking forward to that. That's the same time that it's like two days before the Runster event in D.C. pub key. I found out last week that Wild Hustle was going to Bitcoin Takeover as well. So I will see him there and

Heather Larson (53:01)

then he's going to be at south by Southwest too. He's going to be.

Derek Ross (53:04)

Probably see him at Pub Key then a couple days later, if I can swing.

Heather Larson (53:10)

Yeah, he's going to be part of the. The Pleb Lab stuff going on with south by Southwest. He's going to be speaking at that. And then we've got our Pub Key event and we've just added a couple things to that, by the way. Of course, there's the Runster District 5K, then there's the after party at Pub Key. So with my other podcast, looking forward

Derek Ross (53:26)

to the Pub Key.

Heather Larson (53:26)

Oh, yeah. Radio Detox. I'm going to have an artist takeover. David Tarr has new music coming out, new EP coming out. So he's going to do an artist takeover of Radio Detox at Pub Key. And they're going to have a Gen Z Women in Bitcoin panel with Ainsley Costello and Catherine. So, you know, we're just. Just adding more, More to the fray, more fun at Pub Key DC. So that's March 15th. Make it out. Make it out to one or both of those things. You'll have a great time. Smash burgers. Don't forget Smashburgers. And the drink specials.

Derek Ross (53:56)

You know what? I was there last week for the first time at the dc, the dce. I like the New York one better.

Heather Larson (54:03)

I do the original.

Derek Ross (54:05)

I like the original better.

Heather Larson (54:07)

Well, DC's bigger, though, right?

Derek Ross (54:09)

It's a lot bigger. But it didn't feel like I was at a bitcoin bar. There was very little bitcoin paraphernalia.

Heather Larson (54:18)

Give it time.

Derek Ross (54:19)

It just didn't feel like a bitcoin bar where Pub Key was smaller, I guess. So it felt like a bitcoin bar because there was posters everywhere, jammed in and it was all real close. So, like, the three or four things of bitcoin are with all within, you know, seeing viewing distance in New York City, where it's very much spread out at dc, so it's kind of hard to tell, I think.

Heather Larson (54:42)

And our friend Trey is just onboarding square merchants, like gangbusters, man. So, like, you know, there's a lot going on in dc. I'm. I'm bullish on.

Derek Ross (54:51)

Oh, I'm not saying it was bad. I just it was just different. The fact that it has a podcast studio is cool and people can use that. It has a very large stage and the room where the stage is is like six times larger than the New York City one. So you can have a much larger event in.

Heather Larson (55:10)

We're hoping we can jam our. Maybe. Maybe we exceed the space, but we're hoping to. To take advant advantage of the fact that there's actually a lot of room there at Pub Key dc. So let's go DC Bitcoiners. Get on in there.

Derek Ross (55:22)

Yeah.

Heather Larson (55:22)

Challenge you.

Derek Ross (55:23)

I think. I think it has a lot of potential. I'm looking forward to going back down in a month.

Heather Larson (55:27)

Very cool. Well, enjoy. Maybe. Is the meniscus okay? Can you do the district 5k?

Derek Ross (55:32)

I'm not gonna run. No, I can't run, but I'll hang out. I can't run, but I'll hang out and have a beer and have a burger and listen to my friends Ainsley and Catherine talk on the panel.

Heather Larson (55:44)

Listen to the Gen Z women Bitcoiners.

Derek Ross (55:46)

I was going to listen to Ainsley play music, but I'll listen to her talk too if I have to.

Heather Larson (55:50)

She's going to do that too.

Derek Ross (55:51)

I'm excited for all the things.

Heather Larson (55:52)

Yeah, enjoy.

Derek Ross (55:54)

Have fun. Gonna be good. Alrighty. Well, get your signals up there. Get your claw.

Heather Larson (55:59)

Is that my claws?

Derek Ross (56:01)

Thanks for listening. Check us out on the. Found all of the Podcast 2.0 apps

Heather Larson (56:07)

and I put it on YouTube.

Derek Ross (56:09)

Participate in the value for value economy and if you have to check us out on YouTube, check us out like subscrib. Smash that like button, as they say. Smash that like button down below. And you know, Heather and I can give you the big like dumb like face, you know, if you need to.

Heather Larson (56:25)

The YouTube face for me now,

Derek Ross (56:30)

it

Heather Larson (56:30)

gives me thumbs up.

Derek Ross (56:31)

Open claw.

Heather Larson (56:32)

Sometimes it makes us look better looking,

Derek Ross (56:34)

you know, if you need a good laugh, if you get one thing out of the show when you're just hanging out and you're like, man, I need a good laugh. Think of a woman running through her house yelling, stop. Open claw. As she dives into her office to unplug her Mac Mini. That is. That will make your day.

Heather Larson (56:54)

It's probably on her ring cam.

Derek Ross (56:58)

Thanks for watching. Thanks for listening.