Soapbox Sessions Podcast Summary

Episode Title: There Are Now Two Internets
Date: March 26, 2026
Hosts: Derek Ross & Heather Larson

Episode Overview

In this milestone 30th episode of Soapbox Sessions, hosts Derek Ross and Heather Larson dive into the rapid evolution of the Internet, outlining the emerging divide between “two internets”: a centralized, controlled, and censored KYC-light web versus the open, decentralized, people-powered web blossoming on Nostr. Against the backdrop of landmark US court rulings holding Meta and YouTube liable for designing addictive platforms, the hosts advocate for the necessity—and practicality—of rebuilding the Internet to be censorship-resistant, user-focused, and free from the profit motives warping Big Tech. Along the way, they highlight the advantages of Nostr, the perils of ad-driven platforms, and the changing ethos of social media and AI.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Landmark Lawsuits Against Big Tech

• Recent verdicts:
  • Meta and YouTube held liable for negligent, addictive platform design causing mental health harm—jury awarded $3M to a victim, Kaylee.
  • More than 1,600 lawsuits are pending; these cases set a legal precedent with billions potentially at stake.
  • Another verdict (New Mexico) awarded $375M in civil penalties.
  • Snap and TikTok settled early, avoiding trial (13:41; 15:18; 16:48).
• Key quote:
  • “We're not even talking about content here, we're talking about the platform design is designed to be addictive, it's designed to keep you there... the algorithm, it's a substantial factor in the mental health harm suffered by the plaintiff.”
    —Heather Larson [00:00 & 15:18]
• Big Tech response: Companies like Meta respond that they “disagree with the verdict,” but the hosts mock their legalese and lack of accountability (17:13, 17:54).

2. The Power and Perils of Centralized Platforms

• Single point of failure:
  • Companies can rapidly alter or delete archives due to policy changes, government pressure, or leadership whims.
  • Example: YouTube deleting hundreds of videos at the government’s request, burning parts of the “digital collective archive.” (3:16; 5:54)
• Algorithmic control:
  • Platforms force-feed users content, often based on shallow demographic data or click-bait trends, resulting in the loss of authentic control over online experiences and notification fatigue (2:55; 8:41).
• Self-censorship:
  • Creators and users frequently self-censor to avoid penalties or bans (10:03; 10:17).
  • “You literally demonstrated the exact problem: censorship culture. You had to self censor and talk about something else. So we don't get docked in points.”
    —Derek Ross [10:04]

3. Rise of the Alternative: Decentralized Nostr

• Censorship resistance:
  • Unlike centralized services, Nostr is decentralized—content is cryptographically signed, propagated globally, and cannot be deleted en masse due to lack of a central authority or shareholders (5:54; 18:19).
  • “Nostr is not a company... Nostr doesn't have to answer to VCs... You can build without having to have a dopamine slot machine to generate engagement at the cost of the user."
    —Derek Ross [18:24]
• User ownership:
  • On Nostr, users retain absolute control over their data, can build for any need, and aren’t beholden to ad-driven incentives (4:23; 13:18).
• Incentives & business models:
  • Nostr’s protocol doesn’t need ads or engagement farming; building there allows software for social good, not just shareholder value (13:18–19:29).

4. The “Two Internets”: KYC vs. Open

• Emergent dichotomy:
  • Hosts frame the split as “open/private web” versus the “censored/controlled web."
  • The so-called “light web” (current mainstream, KYC, controlled) is becoming the “dark web” in spirit, while the open, uncensored ecosystem is the true new “light” web (7:41; 23:57).
  • "It's the KYC Internet. The light web is becoming the dark web, and the dark web is becoming the light web."
    —Derek Ross [23:57]
• Age verification & overreach:
  • Platforms ramp up ID requirements and biometric scans under the guise of safety, but really as self-insurance and compliance tools (24:09–28:17).

5. Algorithmic Manipulation & User Experience

• Content spoon-feeding:
  • Mainstream platforms push unwanted content for ads and engagement—often emotionally inflammatory or irrelevant, especially driven by user demographics (10:56; 11:24).
  • "What are we doing to spoon feed you content?... you had to be spoon fed content from the top."
    —Derek Ross [11:24]
• Nostr’s difference:
  • No ads = no incentive for outrage/dopamine content; feeds can be fully user-curated (13:18).

6. Parenting, Societal Impact, and Responsibility

• Mental health and children:
  • Lawsuits force public reckoning with the cost to children, but Big Tech’s response is more likely to trend toward more stringent age verification, not reforming engagement-driven models (22:30; 23:15).
• Responsibility debate:
  • Hosts emphasize parenting responsibilities and available technical tools over letting platforms or governments “parent” for you (21:52; 22:00).

7. The Future of AI, Identity & Social Media

• Bot culture:
  • Hosts admit to using bots—Derek’s persona often managed by bots on Twitter—playfully sparring about identity and automation (28:32–31:03).
• Barriers to automation:
  • Mainstream social platforms place ever-increasing barriers (API keys, KYC, etc.) on users and developers, stifling innovation and experimentation.
• AI and creativity:
  • Discussion includes concerns from creatives about AI replacing humans, as well as questioning the trustworthiness and accuracy of AI-generated content (37:16–42:14).
• Critical thinking:
  • Even amid technological evolutions, critical thinking remains essential for users, especially regarding AI outputs and online interaction (42:11).

8. Re-Imagining the Social Web: From “Social Graphs” to “Interest Graphs”

• Gary Vee’s ‘Interest Media’ concept:
  • The era of personal connections gives way to algorithmically determined “interest” feeds; users follow content types over people (45:12–47:29).
• Nostr’s advantage:
  • Feeds on Nostr and apps like Ditto are fully customizable based on interests, hashtags, or people—unlike Meta, Twitter, etc. (46:34; 48:36).
• Freedom and experimentation:
  • New features (e.g., a customizable “Top 8” MySpace-inspired friends list) show playful possibilities lost in mainstream networks (49:43–53:16).

9. Censorship, Shadow Banning & Social Hierarchy

• Blue check bias:
  • Twitter verification and paywalled features visually and algorithmically reinforce social hierarchies, with follower/influence games required for monetization (54:12).
• Shadow ban fears and self-censorship:
  • Social dynamics now hinder user expression due to unpredictable consequences, reinforcing why open protocols matter (53:59).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “The protocol doesn't have a business model where it has to make these decisions...”
  —Derek Ross [19:29]

• “The government can influence big tech, and then big tech can influence the government, and that's how shit works in this country. And that's not okay, Derek. That's why we have Nostr.”
  —Heather Larson [5:54]

• “They know that they're bad and they're doing bad things and they... Yet they continue to do it because it makes them money.”
  —Derek Ross [14:37]

• “We are fixing the Internet because the Internet's being deleted. Social media is making kids sick, and companies are growing closer and closer together with government, and they're all in cahoots together.”
  —Derek Ross [57:20]

• “We're anti doom scrolling. Like the point of Nostril [Nostr]: It's fun, it's sociable. You will post something and people will actually interact with it.” —Heather Larson [53:28]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Big Tech lawsuits and platform liability: 00:00–01:42; 13:41–16:48
• Platform control & censorship-resistant Nostr: 03:16–06:54
• Algorithmic manipulation and notification fatigue: 02:55–12:49
• KYC web vs. open web analogy: 07:41–08:41; 23:57–24:59
• Verification requirements—TikTok & Twitter: 24:09–28:32
• Bot and automation discussion: 28:32–31:58
• AI/creativity, trust, critical thinking: 37:16–42:14
• Interest graphs vs. social graphs: 45:12–49:06
• Customization and reclaiming the social web: 49:06–53:16
• Censorship, shadow banning, blue checks: 53:28–56:12
• Closing reflections: two Internets, the quest for a better digital future: 57:20–end

Takeaways

• The Internet is undergoing a fundamental split: between the regulated, identity-driven, surveilled/controlled KYC web, and a new open Internet anchored by decentralized protocols like Nostr.
• Big Tech’s ad-driven, engagement-hungry models foster addictive design, ethical conflicts, and “doomscrolling”—with mounting public and legal backlash.
• The open, decentralized web empowers users to own their experience, control their content, and sidestep the extractive games of legacy platforms.
• Social media’s evolution—from personal connection to algorithmic “interest” curation—makes the need for customizable, user-empowered feeds more urgent.
• Staying critical, creative, and community-driven is the way forward—“building our own thing” rather than waiting for Big Tech to reform.

If you want to engage with the next generation social web, join the Nostr community and experiment for yourself!