This Podcast Creates Issues

Summary

Soapbox Sessions – "This Podcast Creates Issues"

Date: March 5, 2026
Hosts: Derek Ross & Heather Larson
Theme: Exploring the latest in Nostr and AI, focusing on the launch of Ditto2—an open, customizable, feature-rich decentralized social platform. The episode is lively, techy, nostalgic, and candid, blending technical deep-dives with broader discussions on digital freedom, user empowerment, and digital parenting.

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Main Theme & Episode Focus

The episode centers on the evolution of Nostr-based social apps, highlighting the announcement and features of Ditto2. The hosts delve into how they're working to "make the Internet fun again" by reclaiming user agency, customization, and open innovation, while reflecting on the nostalgia of the early Internet days. They also navigate pressing issues facing decentralized tech, such as regulatory hurdles, the importance of open-source, and the intersection of user autonomy and growing external pressures.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Nostalgia and the "Re-Decentralized" Internet

• Opening reflections on building an Internet where "voices are never silenced" (00:00–01:00).
• Comparing current Nostr trends to the personalized, creative web of the ‘90s and early 2000s (07:03–09:10).
• Quote: “We were also going to make it visually appealing… bring back design themes, nostalgia.” – Heather (07:03)

2. Conference Season & Community Vibes

• Austin events: South by Southwest, Bitcoin Takeover, PlebLab Startup Rodeo, and more (02:14–03:32).
• Derek’s panel on "the convergence of Bitcoin, AI, and payments."
• A culture of "last-minute" event planning in the decentralized scene (03:32–03:48).

3. The Ditto2 App: Features & Vision

• What is Ditto2?
  • A highly customizable “everything app” built on Nostr—far beyond Twitter clones (13:49–14:22).
  • Enables deep personalization (visual themes, layout, widgets), cross-app content aggregation, and interoperability.
• Customization & Personal Identity
  • Users can design their Ditto2 pages to reflect unique personalities, with themes inspired by MySpace, Geocities, and more.
  • Profile widgets, custom feeds, and even "Top 8" friend lists can be added (18:55–23:48).
  • Quote: “We're bringing it back. The ability to have your personality on your web page… like we had with MySpace.” – Heather (08:50)
• Super App Functionality
  • Aggregates feeds (news, social, podcasts, music, video, live streams) and content from other protocols (Mastodon, BlueSky, etc.) with visually appealing embeds (15:31–15:48).
  • Building blocks: add widgets, custom fields, even AI-generated themes.
  • Quote: "The coolest part... you create your own theme... then... you can click a button that says, 'edit Ditto in Shakespeare' and customize it even more." – Derek (21:10)
• AI Integration
  • Chatbot feature (“Ditto”): helps users design themes, answer questions, and more (24:37–26:07).
  • AI can directly assist with customization (e.g., "Make me a Bitcoin theme").
• Community & Content Discovery
  • "Follow packs" allow for collaborative curated feeds—friends, podcasters, communities (20:04–20:54).
  • Trending and discovery sections powered by NIP-50, but with user agency upheld (38:30–39:22).
  • No forced algorithmic feeds or ads; opting in is always a choice.

4. Developer Workflow & “Creating Issues”

• Derek’s hands-on QA: “I spent three hours yesterday literally clicking on every single button… gave me 38 bugs or features…” (12:18–13:01).
• Organic, “issue-driven” development style: new ideas and bugs become GitLab issues as soon as they’re discussed on-air (12:06–12:10, 27:00–27:06).
• Episode title inspiration: “This podcast creates issues in more ways than one.” – Heather (27:06)

5. Other Up-and-Coming Nostr Apps

• Wisp: A high-performance, minimalist Android app for microblogging (40:03–41:31).
• NoSpeak Chat: Secure desktop DM solution for Nostr (41:36–42:10).
• Nostria: A visually rich app for cross-media discovery and new user experiences (42:22–45:53).

6. WebXDC & Micro Apps in the Feed

• Introducing “apps in posts”: Users can upload and play games (Quake, dino, etc.) and microapps directly inside their Nostr feed (33:00–35:25).
• Vision for communal, creative experiences—much like Jackbox games but open and decentralized.
• Quote: “You just can't, like, upload a game to a post and play it [on Twitter]… People don't even know how cool this is going to be.” – Heather (34:32–34:46)

7. Open Source, Persistence, and the Anti-Corporate Ethos

• No lock-in, no forced monetization, no corporate “ruining”
• Quote: “Even if we all die…the code will still be in GitHub and GitLab and Nostr… If Derek and I get hit by a bus tomorrow… It still exists. It's still out there. Free and open source.” – Heather (32:17–32:58)
• The Nostr ecosystem is collaborative and unkillable by design.

8. Emerging Challenges: Age Verification & Regulation

• Potential legal/regulatory barriers, e.g., state-mandated age verification, and their incompatibility with decentralized platforms (46:33–50:33).
• Host resistance to “KYC for users”—would rather shut down a relay than compromise user agency.
• Parenting in a digital era: balancing oversight, autonomy, and teachable moments versus draconian restrictions (51:11–55:36).
• Quote: “It gets back to being a parent… You have to still parent your children. You know, the Internet can't do it... We don't have AI parents yet.” – Derek (52:36–52:48)

9. Making the Internet Fun (and Free) Again

• Emphasizing joy, playfulness, customization, and user-owned digital space.
• Encouragement to join the open movement: “Come join us on Ditto2… Use our tools. They're free.” – Heather (55:36)
• Vision: Users reclaim control, escaping surveillance capitalism and rekindling Internet culture.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• On restoration and nostalgia:
  “We're bringing back… nostalgia. We have to go back!” – Heather (07:03, 07:13)
• On “The Everything App” vision:
  "Ditto2 is like... the Internet on crack, though, because of all of the features that you guys have been adding to it." – Heather (14:22)
• On developer workflow:
  “I opened like 38 issues yesterday. Should I open one more for you today?” – Derek (11:57)
• On user empowerment & open-source resilience:
  “If Derek and I get hit by a bus tomorrow, go have fun. It still exists. It's still out there. Free and open source.” – Heather (32:58)
• On regulatory headwinds:
  “I'd rather say GFY and turn my relay off than have to KYC people.” – Derek (49:21)
• On digital parenting:
  “You have to still parent your children. The internet can't do it... We don't have AI parents yet.” – Derek (52:42)
• On new micro-apps in posts:
  “Think of it as logging into a game with Nostr… the communication and coordination… happens again through Nostr.” – Derek (34:50)
• On vision for the future:
  “We're going to be taking over the world one decentralized city at a time. I don't even know what that means, but it sounds provocative, so we're going to do it.” – Derek (57:06)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

| Timestamp | Topic / Segment | |---------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:00–01:00 | Introduction: Nostr’s vision for a free and open Internet | | 02:14–03:32 | Conference previews (Austin, Bitcoin Takeover, SXSW, etc.) | | 13:49–22:00 | Ditto2 feature deep-dive & customization ethos | | 24:37–26:17 | AI Chat in Ditto: Theme building and creative possibilities | | 27:00–27:06 | Episode title inspiration: "This podcast creates issues" | | 33:00–35:25 | WebXDC: Apps and games directly in posts | | 38:30–39:22 | Trending, discovery, and anti-algorithm stance | | 40:03–43:49 | New Nostr apps (Wisp, NoSpeak Chat, Nostria, etc.) | | 46:33–50:33 | Regulatory/age verification challenges on decentralized networks| | 51:11–55:36 | Digital parenting philosophy | | 55:36–57:00 | Final reflections: making the Internet fun & user centric again|

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Final Thoughts

"This Podcast Creates Issues" is equal parts release note, brainstorm, social commentary, and high-energy product launch. The hosts are at once playful and dead serious about the stakes of keeping the web open. Listeners leave with:

• A concrete sense of Ditto2’s feature set and design philosophy.
• A reminder that the future of social media is user-driven, creative, and open-source.
• Reassurance that the hosts are thinking about both the fun and the hard parts of the decentralized journey.

Key Call to Action:
Escape the corporate web. Customize, create, and co-own your digital life. Join the Nostr revolution with Ditto2, and help make the Internet fun again.

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to the Soapbox Sessions. Imagine this, an open and free Internet where voices are never silenced, where causes aren't shadow banned, and where no one can be deplatformed. It's real. It's here, and it's happening on nostr. So what exactly is nostr? It's a worldwide community of everyday people working to decentralize the Internet. On Nostr, you can build websites, communities, social networks, apps, and more. One login works everywhere. You own it and no one can take it away. No more juggling dozens of platforms, chasing audiences, or managing a giant password list. And the cherry on top nostr allows for built in digital payments that can come from anywhere in the world. On nostr, value flows as freely as ideas. We're hooked on decentralizing the web and we think you will be too. So now let's hear from your hosts, Derek Ross and Heather Larson, who are working to grow NOSTR one vibe at a time.

[B]

Welcome to Soapbox Sessions. Today is March 4, 2026, and we're here with your weekly dose of all things decentralized, social and AI. Soapbox Sessions is our soapbox about what's new, what's cool, and what's coming. We want to make it easy to understand and keep you up to date with everything happening in this centralized world of social communication and AI as we work to rebuild the Internet.

[C]

Yeah. What's up, Derek?

[B]

Hey, Heather. Well, how you doing? I'm a little stuffy, so I apologize in advance if I sound like I'm holding my nose when I talk cooties. It's good thing we're on a year, you know?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

The temperature is starting to change. One day here In Pennsylvania it's 10, the next day it's 50. So when the, when the temperature fluctuates like that, like I get all sorts of stuff that sounds like going on right now.

[C]

Yeah. I'm in Phoenix. It's gorgeous here. We had a heat, heat streak there for the weekend. It was, it was hot. Now it's like spring again. Happens every year. People get excited about it there. It's like they're new here or something.

[B]

It, it's raining right now, but it's in the 40s, so it's kind of, it's kind of dark and dreary and cold. It's not, it's not good.

[C]

I want

[B]

to some warm weather. I'm going down to Texas and Austin, so maybe it'll be a little warmer down there.

[C]

There you go. It's a big week in Austin next week. I'M glad you're going. Go get to go see some of our friends and hang out.

[B]

South by Southwest is going on.

[C]

Awesome.

[B]

I'm gonn members of the Divine team, so I'm excited to see them divine. They're having a panel. I'm not going to see the panel. Yeah, unfortunately I'm going to miss that panel. I wanted to, wanted to catch it, but I cannot. I'll be there for Bitcoin Takeover. I'm going to be speaking on a panel about the convergence of bitcoin and AI and payments and all that good stuff. So I'm looking forward.

[C]

Someone's got to do it.

[B]

Bitcoin Takeover. That should be fun.

[C]

Oh, are you going to go to the Pleb Lab Startup rodeo that's. That's happening too. You know this big Austin event there's

[B]

also going on there. Unfortunately, I'm not going to be able to go to.

[C]

I know. You should get going to get in. After that you could go to startup school.

[B]

And then there's your apps. Another AI event that's happening Monday. I'm going to miss that event too. There's a AI Hack for Freedom event that's happening Monday at Bitcoin Park Austin. So there's all sorts of AI stuff rodeo you mentioned. And then there's the. I can't stay there for a whole week, unfortunately. I have. I, I booked my flight before like other things started popping up. So I, you know, that was the thing.

[C]

In this space, everyone is 14th, so last minute in the bitcoin is space. I don't know if that's the best way to describe it. Bitcoin Nostra, open source development space. Everything is last minute. We need to stop that. But I've been saying that for like a year, so nobody listens to me.

[B]

Okay. No, Heather, because I am leaving on the 14th to drive down to Houston for the 14th and the 15th. It's only like a two and a half hour drive and when I'm there I'm going to be hanging out at the Soapbox hq.

[C]

What?

[B]

And I'm going to be doing some, some soapboxing. Some IRL soapboxing.

[C]

I soapboxing in here. Oh, so you're. You're missing my runster event in D.C. then. You're not going. I see how it is.

[B]

No, that. I thought that was the 15th. Is it not?

[C]

Yeah, it's the 15th. You.

[B]

So I'll be in Houston back the 15th.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

What time's the runster event?

[C]

It's. It's all morning. Though, it's like, Okay, I know you're not gonna do the run. The run's early, but then doors open, a pub key at 10 in the morning, and you can see the cool stuff around noon. Like, Ainsley, what day of the week is.

[B]

That's on Sunday. That's a Sunday.

[C]

That's a Sunday, bro.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, I'm gonna be missing that. I'm gonna be.

[C]

Look on his face.

[B]

You'll be hanging out at Soapbox HQ making.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Making videos and all sorts of stuff. So I.

[C]

All right.

[B]

I have a. I have a busy day. I have a busy day.

[C]

And we're making you work, like, seven days a week. And then I'm mad because you can't go to my thing in dc.

[B]

Yeah, like, it's a weekend. We're gonna be working, like, I'll get over it. Saturday and Sunday, Morgan and mk, Alex and I, we're gonna make some. Make some videos. So, unfortunately, I'm going to miss the Runster event. I want to be there.

[C]

We do need the videos, though. I do need you people working, so, I mean, I win either way. Yeah. Stuff gets.

[B]

You know what? I just had a great. Had a great idea. How about if I teach Morgan how to do zaps?

[C]

Yes.

[B]

That day.

[C]

This was. This was a private discussion earlier. But we need to talk about this because I want to see how Morgan absorbs the zappery of Noster. I think that that's. She's very. I wouldn't call her, but she's uninitiated.

[B]

We combine these together, right? Like.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah. So we combine these events together. So we're going to do all sorts of, like, Noster intro, tech introductions and stuff. I think so. I think it can wait a week.

[C]

What does that happen now?

[B]

Dude, I think that makes sense, right? To record this, and then we can slice and dice it and show all the positives and then the massive amount of negatives of Zaps.

[C]

We're gonna. We're gonna make our girl go another week, I think.

[B]

I think in person it'll be good.

[C]

All right. Too. On your own with that.

[B]

Yeah, she's gone. She's gone this far. I think it'll be good.

[C]

She wants her ditto to look good. We were talking this morning. She's. She's like, I gotta get my ditto to look good. So, like, that's. That's the new user to Noster, interpreting the. The ditto. The new ditto, which the world has not seen yet, but we have.

[B]

You know what? You know what? I Know what she's talking about. When I was looking at a couple people's profiles yesterday, and I click on their profile and it's a blank, like, dark black profile. And I was like, oh, this person hasn't. This person hasn't customized their profile.

[C]

We are eliminating.

[B]

And then I go to another person's profile, and I'm like, oh, this per. This person hasn't customized.

[C]

Derek, when we said we were going to rebuild the Internet, we meant we were also going to make it pretty to. We were also going to make it visually appealing. We were going to bring back design themes, nostalgia.

[B]

We have to go back.

[C]

It's full circle, really. And there's. There's a whole movement about this, which is a whole other story.

[B]

But I wanted to.

[C]

Yeah, I think the world's on fire.

[B]

Nostalgia wins.

[C]

I think that we want the time

[B]

before everything was on fire, like, to relive our ute, as they say.

[C]

I think for me it's not.

[B]

Yeah, we want to go back to a better time. Right.

[C]

I want the 90s again. The 90s amaze me more and more the further we get away from this.

[B]

Before the 90s were cool.

[C]

Before terrorism, at least the level we have now.

[B]

What do you mean? We had war in the 90s. We literally invaded Iraq.

[C]

Not like we do now. Well, that was Desert Storm. I mean, that was before 9, 11. And that level, like, terrorism wasn't on our side.

[B]

We were storming the desert in the 90s. Heather. I remember that. I remember my dad coming to pick me up at Boy Scout camp, and he's like, hey, Derek, you want to know what happened in the world?

[C]

Yeah, but. But terr. Terrorism wasn't happening on our soil the way it, you know, happened after 911 and. And, you know, two bombers and all that other stupid stuff that we've had since. And, you know, things that are absolutely ridiculous in retrospect. And at the time, we, like, spent so much time on them when they were happening.

[B]

But in the grand scheme of things, nostalgia is generally a good feeling. So people like to relive high points of their life, and this includes life. And for a lot of us, yes, this is the late 90s and early 2000s of tech, when you could go and customize your MySpace page, your GeoCities page, all these things, your Angel Fire

[C]

page, keywords, customized customization that we.

[B]

We're bringing it back.

[C]

Yeah, we're bringing it back. The ability to kind of like have your personality on your web page or whatever, your social media like that we had with MySpace. We all somehow knew how to do HTML when MySpace came along, so we could personalize our MySpace. I don't know how we all learned HTML like that. How did we just know it was like some. Something was in the water or something?

[B]

Well, there was web pages. HTML was much simpler, and we had all sorts of tutorials that we would go and copy and paste text from and paste it into our MySpace page and boom. It was pretty. It was custom.

[C]

It looked cool. You'd have glitter. You'd have, like sparkles on your page. You'd have some little animation thing.

[B]

Scrolling marquees. You know what? You know, that's a profile widget. We need to bring back. We need to bring back scrolling marquees. We. We need that for our. Our Noster profiles. They have to like the cringy.

[C]

Hang on.

[B]

The cringier, the better. What is what?

[C]

I had the bitcoin women conference going in the background, but I didn't realize it would just take over my screen and start back up, man.

[B]

I can't really, like, you were watching,

[C]

the machines are winning.

[B]

You're watching the video and. Well, that's a sign. I guess that's a good sign. Like, like, quick, quick. What is the bitcoin price at right now? That's bullish. That's bullish for Bitcoin.

[C]

73,000ths dollar conversion, man.

[B]

All right, we're all rich again.

[C]

Okay. It's up like 7% today. I can sell a couple of bitcoins. A couple bucks. It's been down for a while, so I don't. I don't know. It just. Who can watch the price? That's not my purpose on this earth to sit and watch the bitcoin price. I want people to have bitcoin.

[B]

I don't look at the price. I see people in my feed talking about the price, and I'm like, oh, bitcoin must be doing. It never ends a good or a bad.

[C]

Well, I get all these push notifications from Strike and Cash app lets me know exactly what's happening. You know, if it's going way down or way up. Like, I get.

[B]

Yeah, Strike does those as well. They capitalize on that. It's always the same thing. It's like when bitcoin does something good, it's always the same similar type of message. And then when bitcoin's down, it's like 1 BTC is still 1 BTC,

[C]

but people get excited when it goes up, and that's usually. Yeah. When it goes up and it stays up. On those occasions, that's when the family starts asking about it. Hey, tell me about the bitcoin stuff. Okay. And then I don't hear from them again for a year.

[B]

Well, you know about bitcoin, this just gives me another good idea, is that maybe I want a bitcoin widget on my custom profile. We should give people the opportunity to do.

[C]

Oh, this is going to be awesome. I can already see where this is going.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

How many custom widgets can I request? Because, you know, I'm a person with like two or three or four podcasts. Can I pin them all to the top of my Ditto2 page? That'd be great.

[B]

I think that you should be able to. It should be a custom field and you pin it and add it. Create it. Absolutely. I think that that's something that we want to add.

[C]

Put that on the wish list. Can you. Can you open an issue for that for me? Just. I'll just trust you.

[B]

I will tell my robot to do that. I opened like 38 issues yesterday. Should I open one more for you today?

[C]

There we go.

[B]

But call my robot.

[C]

I bring these.

[B]

Tell him what he wants.

[C]

This is what I do around here. I bring the issues. Apparently Derek's got like 30 more issues than I do.

[B]

Well, I spent. All right, so this. This will be our segue into. Into Ditto 2. What is Ditto 2? But I spent three hours yesterday literally clicking on every single button of every single page of the app. Like, I did a deep dive, all 100%. I did it live on stream. It took me three hours. And I went over every single feature with the fine tune. We have three hours.

[C]

Three hours worth of buttons.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

No shit.

[B]

So. Well, those three hours worth of buttons gave me 38 bugs or feet or features that needed to be fine tuned or that were inconsistent or kind of AI sloppy things that need to be touched by a human.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah, so it was. It was good. We need this to be done. We need the app to be consistent. We need to work well. So, yes, it was three hours well spent human testing. Yeah.

[C]

So you couldn't have your cloudbot do that.

[B]

Claudebot's not gonna be able to figure out all these continuity issues and make sure things look the same. Like we still need. Yeah, like, it's just. It's just. It's not gonna be able to. Not yet.

[C]

God bless you, Derek.

[B]

Not yet. I like. I like my human QA testing still.

[C]

You still have to. We're not building apps. That's fine. Building apps for humans. Humans it still matter. Damn it. We got a little nuts over the last month or so with our. Our bot world.

[B]

We do matter.

[C]

Humans matter.

[B]

So let's dig into what is ditto 2. Heather, why don't you give me your take on what Ditto2 is?

[C]

My take on Ditto2 is here. Here is a Nostr app that's like an everything app. It's not just another Twitter alt. It does a lot more than that. And I can customize the look of it, which I appreciate. I can show my. My personality. But, you know, the interoperability really shines through, I think, with Nostr. God, I don't want to go down this, like, jargony nerd rabbit hole, but I think every time a new Nostr app. Too long, no jargon.

[B]

Every time the beeper.

[C]

Every time you jargon zap me. Every time a new Nostr app comes along, it obviously, in the interoperability scheme of things, automatically imports things. Like things I've bookmarked. You know, like, the bookmark that immediately pops up is the last thing I bookmarked, which is something that Derek wrote on his Nostr that I thought I might want to come back to this later, at least repost this thing that Derek wrote. And it's just there when I sign up for Ditto 2, which is our new version of Ditto 1. And if you want to do a deep dive on Soapbox Pub, if you're really nerdy, like, we obviously wrote about it a year ago, but it was kind of like, hey, here's our answer to Twitter, but it's open and it's uncensorable, and therefore you can have a better experience. But, like, Ditto2 is like. Like the Internet on crack, though, because of all of the features that you guys have been adding to it. And it's. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, and maybe you'll say this better than I can, but isn't it kind of maybe not interoperable with Blue sky or Mastodon? But there's. There's a component there that works. Like, if I wanted to embed a post on my Ditto that came from Mastodon or Blue sky, it's going to look good and it's not going to look crappy, so it's going to make sense. Yeah.

[B]

So we're automatically rendering that and showing it. So if you post, like, a Twitter link or a Mastodon link or a Blue sky link, we'll show it pretty to other users.

[C]

See, that's. That's where things.

[B]

It Won't just be like a, you know, a. A URL. It'll. It'll look good.

[C]

Okay, so, like, things are going to start to look better, which I think is important, because if it looks better and the UX is good and the experience is good, I will stick with it. Which I think has been my opinion. Anyway. The problem with Nostr so far is sometimes the experience doesn't live up to people's expectations. At this point of 2026 Internet life,

[B]

I think for me, it's the fact that it's so easily customizable. Like, I love the other stuff and other stuff. Maxi. I like all the other stuff. But the hardest part about the other stuff is user adoption to get people to leave their Kind one feed and then use another app.

[C]

What's a Kind one Feed?

[B]

Years now I've been trying to get people to put as much other stuff into their apps as possible. So now we kind of did that.

[C]

Well, it's going to show your Divine videos.

[B]

Too many. Many Divine videos should show up, like, provided I. Divine videos will be in there. Absolutely.

[C]

So, like, yeah, so you will see

[B]

content from various other applications, various other parts of the ecosystem that you don't normally see.

[C]

That's what's going to be cool, is. Well, will it? I guess you should probably just run down the list of features that it has. Like, what can I do on Ditto that maybe I'm struggling to do now on, like, not even just Noster, but just like other social media apps that I, you know, people have. Like, when you say behind one feed or whatever, you're really referring to what Twitter started, that Blue sky does, that Mastodon does. But what Noster does.

[B]

Microblogging.

[C]

Yeah, microblogging. With Nostr, though, you get that, plus you get the video feed and you can maybe like pin your podcast to the top of your feed and you get the Pin post aspect. And now with Ditto2, I get to choose my theme, so I get to show my personality. Like, I picked the grunge theme because, like, you're saying nostalgia, sure.

[B]

But you get to customize what your app looks like, like you said. But we also get to customize the type of content that we see in our feed and you get to customize some of the layout. So, for example, if you love photos and videos, and that's all you care about, right? You don't care about anything else, and that's all you want to see in your feed, you can essentially do that. You can add the photos section. You can Add the photos content, you can add the video section, you can add the video content. So we give you these different sidebar options that you can configure so you can add the photos sidebar. And then, boom, now you have a feed of photo content. If you want to add videos, like I said, boom. You add the video sidebar in one click, boom, one tap, boom. You have all of your video content. And we do this for, like you said, vine videos as well. We do this for trends, we do this for events, we do this for music, we do this for podcasts. Like, the list goes on and on. We do this for everything.

[C]

If I ideally, like, let's say I'm just new to Nostr, and I get on Nostr too. Somebody like Morgan, right? So let's say Morgan, she started her Nostr, she gets on Ditto, and Morgan is our coworker. And Morgan is new to the whole Noster Bitcoin universe, right? So she's fresh, she's impressionable, she can just use all of our stuff and really get something out of it as somebody who's tired of big tech. So let's say Morgan gets on Noster, she's got her account, she puts up her profile pic. You're going to teach her zaps next week. So she, let's say she brings in like her 10 friends, right? So then she and her 10 friends kind of create their own Internet and their own experience. And maybe she and her friends, maybe they prefer the TikTok experience. So maybe they just start posting videos and they all follow each other and now they're creating their web of trust together and they can interact with each other and maybe they find more users that are into the things that they're into, and then they all start following that person. But everybody gets to interact in the way they want. And their profile on Ditto2, it's going to look the way they want it to look, and they're kind of taking back the Internet and creating their own thing. And they have the freedom to do that. That's. That's kind of how I envision it going forward.

[B]

Sure. They can then create a follow pack of them, their 10 friends that all post similar content, and they can have feeds of content of their content. They can make it so somebody can share and curate this list of people that all post similar content if they want to, into a follow pack. Then they can make that follow pack a feed. It's again, really, really, really customizable things that you've always been able to do across A wide variety of apps, but you had to jump back and forth to do a lot of this. So now a lot of this is now brought into Ditto, allowing you to customize, pretty much, like I said, the entire look and feel of the app and the functionality of the app. And the coolest part about all of this, right? So you make this custom content, custom feed, custom setup, layout, everything. You even go in and create your own theme. You create your own profile theme. And then. And then if this is not enough user customization, you can click a button that says, edit Ditto and Shakespeare and customize it even more.

[C]

You can use the AI coding.

[B]

That right there is wild.

[C]

Like, you can do it right now.

[B]

Customization and configuration are your jams. Do we have a song for you. It's called Ditto.

[C]

There's actually a whole world on the Internet that I found, like, people who are fans of the indie web and trying to bring it back, and they're. They're trying to bring back, like, the geocities, but it's called neocities. And so, like, I think a lot of people might actually want to play with this a little bit and really, really do that. Maybe not a lot of people, but it's a microcosm. It's a community of people who like to do that thing.

[B]

You know what would be cool? We're going to come up with an addition to the marketing plan live on the air right now. It would be cool because I'm sure somebody has done this marketing live. I guarantee you that if you go to the. I forget what it's called. You said neocities. So there are websites that have old Angelfire themes and old geocities themes, and I'm probably sure that somebody has. Somebody probably also has MySpace themes out there. If you could import all those and convert all these existing nostalgic themes over to Ditto themes. Boom.

[C]

Oh, my God. That'd be like.

[B]

We have a. I'll say we have, like, a dozen themes right now, and you can choose them, you can customize them.

[C]

It seems like something we could easily find.

[B]

What if we had all of the popular ones that people want? Yeah, fork them. Fork them.

[C]

Drank a lot of fork it in back then.

[B]

Let's do it.

[C]

I don't remember what my MySpace theme was. I killed the brain cells with which I used HTML to make my. All right, so I don't know what theme I had. I'm. I'm sure there was glitter.

[B]

I want to see your old MySpace page, Heather. I wish I could let's go.

[C]

I want to find it. It'll just be my name. Everything's my name. Heather Larson. Have to spell it right. Like, most people can't get one of those words right. But, yeah, it was. It was amazing. Would you. Would you be in my top eight, Derek?

[B]

Well, I'll tell you what, he can. We can do this. We can add this as a widget for. For ditto. We could have people having their top eights if they want to bring it back. If you want to bring back the top eight, we can do that.

[C]

I'm gonna put you in my topic and who.

[B]

At least for a day, right? Like, I would spot you for a day. You know, I'm.

[C]

I'm gonna put Walker in the top eight because he had you and Alex on the bitcoin podcast. So I'll put Walker in there.

[B]

Yeah,

[C]

but, yeah, like, oh, my God, what else do we.

[B]

All right, I will add that to the list of items. Top eight is a priority.

[C]

Okay. What did we used to write on one another's wall? Because, remember, there was, like, this wall that was on, like, the right side. Unless she, like, flipped it back and forth. I don't know. Could we flip? I can't remember.

[B]

Yeah, I don't think mine was on the right side.

[C]

See, we. The brain cells I had back then are gone. They are ruined. Thankfully, I'm sober.

[B]

Well, this is also 20 years ago, Heather. This was also 20 years ago.

[C]

That's like, I was using it on my Dell.

[B]

That's like, millennia in Internet time. Okay.

[C]

My niece and nephew weren't even born yet, actually. I think they know that. Oh, God.

[B]

This is a whole other Internet, and

[C]

my nephew's about to turn 21, so.

[B]

Wow. Oh, wow.

[C]

I'm gonna need to take the rest of the day off. Bye.

[B]

So we have an. We have another neat feature in Ditto. We have AI Chat built into it, and it's contextually aware that it's inside ditto.

[C]

What is that? So you can say, hey, what does that mean?

[B]

What's AI Chat? It's a chat.

[C]

Yeah, we have a chat bot.

[B]

Okay, so we have a chat bot in there, and you can talk to the chat bot.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

It's not on the bottom right. Like, you would see, like, a help website. We don't have it like that. It's in a feed. So you would. You would go to, like, one of the different custom feeds, like I was saying earlier. You have maybe, like, a podcast feed where you see soapbox sessions and then you have, you know, you have a follow pack feed or a music feed, an article feed, all the feeds, photo feeds. So you have an AI chat feed and it's. It's just a chat. One on one chat with. With an AI chat bot. I guess he doesn't have a name for Ditto. Is it. Is it Quilly? I don't know. It's just calling name Ditto. Okay.

[C]

All right. Ditto squared.

[B]

All right. Chatty with Ditto. Okay. So you're having a chat with your boy D, and you can say, hey,

[C]

I always like to talk to people.

[B]

I want my theme to look like whatever. You know, we were talking about what, we were talking about bitcoin earlier. So you say, I love bitcoin. Make me a bitcoin.

[C]

We need a bitcoin theme.

[B]

And boom, it would make you a bitcoin theme. You can do so much more than that.

[C]

It would have green candles, but that's really cool. Okay, what would a bitcoin theme have? It would have, like orange coins.

[B]

Okay. I like this. I like where we're going with this candle. So on green days you would have like green candles everywhere and red deja. Red candles everywhere. You can just switch back and forth.

[C]

What have you partnered with the time chain guy and you had like a time chain theme? This is what happens when Derek and I start jamming. We start coming up with ideas that might actually be good, people might actually want. But now it's on record on the podcast, so now we have to do it.

[B]

I think, I think that what you do is you create each of these themes with the AI and then you. And then you just save it so you can swap back and forth.

[C]

We could have a treasures theme.

[B]

It would be cool to have it automated. You could have a treasures theme, actually. Yeah. Chad, why don't we have a treasures. Treasures theme?

[C]

Can you add.

[B]

That's a good idea. There's been like four issues we've come up with this show before. I have not written any of them down.

[C]

Like, that should be the tagline. That's the name of the show. This podcast creates issues like this.

[B]

This podcast creates issues in more ways than one.

[C]

We are hell on GitLab.

[B]

So, Heather, I have a. I have a spoiler. One of the most sought after features of Noster clients for the past three years has been a GIF picker. And Ditto has a building gift picker. You can pick gifts and you could pick stickers. We have all of them in.

[C]

Not where I thought you were going.

[B]

I thought you were going to mention DMs.

[C]

I thought you were going to go with the DMS there.

[B]

No, we don't have DMs yet, actually. DMs are like one of the features we don't have.

[C]

Maybe the world is better.

[B]

We'll say that. We've been. Well, we've been discussing what DMS to add. We've talked about 17 and then we had discussions. A lot of back and forth moving into, moving into the Marmot protocol, moving into MLS DMs. Because Nostr is all about MLS right now.

[C]

Down the roadmap, maybe the very, very

[B]

down the roadmap, down the road map. So, yeah, we were talking about this last week and we figured that if, you know, with Marmot SDK just hitting the first official public release, a lot of things being finalized, a lot of building MLS apps.

[C]

It sounds very virginal.

[B]

Timely move. Yeah, but it sounds like it's a timely move, so we'll see. That's. That's the current thought process. You know, we'll. It's progressing forward.

[C]

I'm glad I asked. I'm asking all the hard hitting journalism questions here.

[B]

Well, another hard hitting question is, is we talked about building Cashew directly into the app because this, this follows MLS Marmot.

[C]

It's an ALS is happening.

[B]

The Marmot protocol. Well, the AOS has a Marmot Protocol pillar, so we want to support them. AOS also has a Cashew pillar, so we want to support them. So we're most likely going to bring both of these features in. Lemon's working on the Cash generation right now.

[C]

Derek. I want it all. I want all of the features.

[B]

I want it all.

[C]

I want it all. I want the Everything app to be

[B]

well, I want it all douchebag as well. Everything applies, you know, this will be our super app.

[C]

Yes. Like, well, it's a super app, but

[B]

it's also an other stuff app because it showcases all of the other stuff.

[C]

Yes. Which is the important thing.

[B]

We're not so, so ditto. We know that we won't be the best experience out there for, for Vines, for podcasts, for music, for articles. Right. There are other stuff applications that are built 100% for that. But we'll show that content. We'll allow you to organize it, we'll allow you to choose it, we'll give you a little bit of a taste of it. And then if you want more, then you go to the app that's known for that experience. But we're, but we'll showcase it and we'll bring it into the fold.

[C]

There you go. And that's, that's the interoperability of it, which still sounds like a jargony word to me, but it just means that like everything works in Noster together. Which.

[B]

But as an other stuff developer, I've struggled to get people to use my apps. But Ditto has events built into it. So right now people don't have to leave their app to look at events. That's going to automatically get more people using events, which means I'll have more people using Plectos.

[C]

We've been working on things like in the background for the last year or so, you know, since before you and I came to Soapbox last summer. And we're seeing the convergence of all of the things that all of the groups of people have been working on. And it all comes into this new version of Ditto so that you can have video in your app if you want it. You know, if you don't care, you don't care. And you just want to write little, you know, micro blog updates for the rest of your life, you can do that too. It's. This is how customizable it is going forward. And by the way, still no real algorithm, no ads being fed to you, no censorship, no ads by some company. There's, you know, this is not. Still Noster is not a company. You know, I still, I joke that, Derek.

[B]

But you know what we do have, Heather, but what we have magic. The magic, the gathering card decks. We have treasures. We don't have little blobby pets yet, but we will, we will have all of these cool things and no ads in your face.

[C]

And you don't have to have a monthly subscription. Did we mention this is free? Did we mention this is open source like Twitter used to be 20 years ago? Free and open and so much entertainment. And remember back in the beginning of Twitter, God, 20 years ago, you know, there were all these other apps that were, you know, incorporated into it. Facebook was the same way there, there was Zynga with farmville. Everything worked together. And then one day everybody went corporate and kicked out all of the innovation. Like this is Nostra is the opposite of that. We keep the innovation.

[B]

Back in the day, I didn't use twitter.com I use seismic or Seismic. I don't remember how you said it, but that was, that's what I used to use Twitter. It was a third party app. I use Seismic Seismic every day. That, that was my Twitter app.

[C]

Really. I just use Twitter.

[B]

Liked its experience.

[C]

Yeah. And the tweet deck came along at some point. And that just changed the old world. Yeah. You know, Thomas has note deck and. And so, like, we basically, we've recreated all of the things that we used to love that got ruined and now they're unruinable because nobody owns them. And you can just, you know, if we all die and the thing goes, you know, the code will still be in GitHub and GitLab and Noster and wherever else it's backed up and. And you can just rebuild it. If Derek and I get hit by a bus tomorrow, go have fun. It still exists. It's still out there. Free and open source.

[B]

We disappear. You can still go to Ditto. Download the code, customize it, use it.

[C]

That's forever.

[B]

Whatever you want on top, advance it.

[C]

Have your bot download the code.

[B]

Speaking. Have. Have your bot talk to my bot. You know, another feature we didn't mention is it's a little. Little geeky, but it's really cool as it's called Web xdc. What is that?

[C]

I don't even know what that is.

[B]

We need to think of a better word for this. Like.

[C]

Yeah, you do.

[B]

I wanted to. I want to call it Apps. I don't like Web xdc because that's nerdy and geeky and nobody knows what the hell that is.

[C]

Yeah, that's true.

[B]

But if we rename it apps, apps can be anything because it can be little games, it can be little applications, but that's what essentially they are. That was the tiny little applications that can run in the browser.

[C]

He was playing a game.

[B]

So like, we were playing Dyno, we were playing Quake. Like, we need to rename it.

[C]

Okay, but specify how you play the game, though. The game is like a post. It's like a post in your feed.

[B]

Sure. Yes. So if you. There are games that exist that, that you. That you can create, you can download. You have to upload this game to Noster in a post. Once somebody does it, it lives live on Nostr. And if you configure it to do so, it can support, like, multiplayer. So, for example, I can post a Quake game and people can join my Quake game. And Nostr handles the. The lobby feature. Nostr handles the positioning for people to be able to join the game and interact with one another, going back and forth across relays. So it's kind of relay scammy.

[C]

Can't do this on Twitter. Like, you just. You just can't like, upload a game to a post and play.

[B]

You can't. You can't use relays in that regard.

[C]

Like, we're selling it short.

[B]

I'm sorry, you can't use Twitter in that regard. No, no, no.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. Like. Like, people don't even know how cool this is going to be.

[B]

Think of it as logging into a game with Nostr, having your identity in the game be Nostr, and then the communication and coordination for us to communicate in the game and play the game happens again through Nostr. So all of this happens over and with Nostr, just, it provides a unique, cool experience. I think it's cool. And we're just really touching the surface. Maybe much cooler applications, little micro apps, micro games, microservices. People will build and import to this.

[C]

That'll be the most interesting part to see. Like, once some new people come in and realize they can build on it. Like, what will people make? Probably be games. Who knows? It could be music. We've seen people build a lot of things with Shakespeare since we released that last summer. But, you know, if you have a whole different use case of, like, hey, you can build like micro apps for ditto and make this social experience for you and your friends. Like, I think that that'll.

[B]

People will.

[C]

It will appeal to people and more new ideas will come in, which was kind of the whole point of what we do here at Soapbox. Like, you can create as a community too.

[B]

You know, all those fun jackbox games that people play over the Internet a lot of times in like zoom calls or teams calls, whatnot. They'll do these, you know, you don't know jack type games and, you know, question games and Pictionary games. You could. If these games exist, you could port them over to this now and run them over. Nostr is what can happen. So that's really cool. You just need someone to start porting these over. There's an entire existing community out there that is making these types of games, importing them into this protocol. So I think that the merging will continue and we'll see some cool stuff down the line.

[C]

Let the merging continue. That was like. That might have been.

[B]

The merging will continue.

[C]

Except for the Heather.

[B]

Did we just discover this week's title? The merging will continue.

[C]

This podcast creates issues.

[B]

Yeah, this pause. I. You know what? We don't know which one it's going to be yet. Those are some good. Those are some good contenders there could be sealed out as we're more to come publishing.

[C]

You never know. You never know. I've had a lot of issues today that GitLab canceled.

[B]

We're only 40 minutes in we have 20 more minutes for a new catchphrase to pop.

[C]

Anything can happen. Anything can happen here.

[B]

Anything can happen.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

All right, so what, what other ditto features do we need to highlight here? We talked about all the different customizations of your feeds, of your content, of your looks. We talked about all the different other stuff components that we are including. There'll be an Android app down the road. There might be an iOS app, but right now there is an Android app that's available. The plan is to publish these on the Big Boy stores, so everybody should be able to find them in the future.

[C]

The Big Boy stores. By the way, I think it's worth mentioning that Divine is in Zap Store for those who are Noster friendly and on Android. Just doesn't hurt to mention that again, you know, if people want to really get into it.

[B]

Yeah, that's a, that's a, that's not, you know, big, Big Brother, the Big Brother stores. Zap Store is not a Big Brother store. Divine is available there and ultimately Divine

[C]

will be in the Big Brother store. But right now you can.

[B]

On Big Brother. Yeah, I mean it's in test flight and soon to be beta. But yeah, right now you can find it on Zap Store.

[C]

So do that. Have fun.

[B]

I didn't mention it, but we, we have our own like what's hot trending post section in Ditto. So you can go and you can look at posts that are ranked through nostr nip 50, what's hot controversial, rising, so forth like that. Just to give you a little algo if you want a little algo to help people want to find in user discovery. So we do have this if you want it. It's just not forced upon you as the only metric for you to interact with the content.

[C]

We don't force people to do things so that we can feed them ads. We don't do that on Noster.

[B]

If you don't want to click on any of these things, you don't have to.

[C]

You, you, you have the power of choice and consent again with the Internet. Whereas you do not been around for decades. You've been force fed everything basically at this point, like so come over to Noster. It's a little bit more fun.

[B]

We have, we have content for you.

[C]

Here's what we don't have. We don't have accounts. Okay. You don't have to sign up for your email and put the whole thing. You know, you don't have to keep track. You know, we do have something to keep Track of. Obviously you're Nostrid, but we've, we've explained that on previous podcasts, but I think it bears repeating that, like, this isn't like a sign in with Google, kind of just another freaking Internet thing like you've seen a thousand times. It's going to be a little bit different.

[B]

Different's good. In some other Nostr news, we have an app called Wisp that launched this past week. Wisp is from FOD member utxo, the webmaster.

[C]

What is Wisp?

[B]

Wisp is his new Android app. He made this just this past week, largely Vibe coded. I'll probably say, like mostly vibe coded, but his goal was everything is, I think, a fast application that did outbox better than. Better than Amethyst. He didn't like.

[C]

How does that mean anything to a normal person though? Like somebody who doesn't know anything about Nosters, like, why do I care? Like, what does this do?

[B]

Why do you care?

[C]

This is the guts of.

[B]

He wanted to make. I mean, yeah, I'm saying tactical stuff, but sure. He wanted to make an Android app that was more performant, that performed better.

[C]

All right, so we're working on performance. We're working on the guts of Noster.

[B]

That's what he's working on. He wanted it to be fast and simple. And it is. It's simple. It's a little buggy because it's new. Yeah, there are some interesting features in it, but it has all the basic features you want for your standard, like Twitter type clone. And that's really all that it is right now. I don't know if it'll eventually add more features than that, but if you just want to have like a micro blog experience and have it have minimal features but get the job done for the features that it does have, that's what he's aiming for. So it launched this past week. It comes with the ICQ as a notification sound. So that was kind of cool.

[C]

That gave me some nostalgia. Yeah, that's great. Yeah, that's great.

[B]

Yeah, I liked that. I also tried a new chat app this week that I had not heard about. It's called no Speak. No Speak chat. It's a nip 17 decimeter app chat app for Nostr. It works decently well. It's a. It's a web app and yeah, it works decently well. I was surprised. I hadn't heard of it yet. But yeah, I would say check it out. If you're looking for a desktop dmer, you know, check it out.

[C]

Okay, so you Can DM people securely with it? It's called what? No Speak.

[B]

No Speak Chat. No Speak Chat.

[C]

Finally you can DM people privately. Allegedly.

[B]

I want to start singing. No doubt in my head now.

[C]

Don't speak.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

The song about a breakup.

[B]

There's another.

[C]

This is the nostalgia episode. We're getting really nostalgia episode going back to 1996.

[B]

There's another noster app that I just. Man, what is it called? I don't say it wrong. Nostra Daria Austria. Nostria. Have you used Nostria, Heather?

[C]

Yes. Yes, I have. It does a lot of things.

[B]

So this has been out for a while now, but I haven't used it in what, six months? Six months.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Like, I remember when it was first being worked on six months ago. I checked it out and I was like. And I haven't looked at it since I looked at it.

[C]

That's a long time around here. Okay. That's like.

[B]

It's the home feed. It's actually not even a feed. I'll call it just the home page. How it has all the different other stuff. Kind of like ditto, right? It's a bunch of other stuff. But the way it's laid out and organized is really, really cool. I just. I just.

[C]

Very clean.

[B]

The home page design is unique. I really liked it.

[C]

Yeah, like you can basically, once you find an app you like using in Noster because there's so many that give you different experiences. So people like jumble, people like Primal domus. Ditto. Ditto 2 is coming. Nostria. Like what? Iris. The one that Marty mommy made. I mean, like, you can have the experience of your choosing. And if you hate micro blogging, you never have to do it. And if you hate photos or videos for some reason, you never have to do that either. You pick your choose your own adventure.

[B]

That's what NASA choose your own adventure.

[C]

Choose your own adventure.

[B]

Book Austria came out with a new version this week and they launched a.

[C]

Oh, I haven't checked it out.

[B]

Signer. A signer for.

[C]

Check it out right now.

[B]

Desktop web browse, web browser. So that's why I want to rediscovered this application. They launched a signer. So now we have a new signer out there. Very cool.

[C]

Signer is definitely the thing that you want. Oh, okay. It looks way different now, right? Like, it looks cool. It went right to my liked songs. Okay, let's go to back to feeds following Discover.

[B]

Yeah, like summary. I love seeing the innovation in apps that showcase other stuff. That's why we're building.

[C]

I've updated my profile since I logged on live. Okay. We go to Discover and actually this is a cool feature. I like this Discover content where you can go by category. News, digital art, finance, freedom gaming. You probably like one or all of those things if you're in the bitcoin nostril space. Everybody likes art. Who doesn't like art? Right? And then it gives you a people discovery too, which. Oh, look, it just pops right up with Derek Ross right there. What up? I can follow.

[B]

There he is.

[C]

And the rest of it is like not people. It's like Nims, which. Welcome. Welcome to Noster.

[B]

Welcome to Noster.

[C]

Welcome to Everybody's a name.

[B]

I think that I would say, you know, check it out. It's. It's a nice looking app. Check out no speak as well. Check out. Ditto.

[C]

Check it. Check out all the. It knows what I listen. It knows my playlists.

[B]

It knows who you listen to. Well, you know, public information.

[C]

Well, you're not going to get that with Spotify Twitter. You're just not. It's like, oh, hey, she listened to Matt Finley and Helene and Strange Love and like it knows what I did. Oh, it has a live streams. This is, this is cool. So like our apps are up, leveling very quickly in the nostraverse and I like that a lot. You can see what people are doing right now on the people who are live streaming. Oh, this is, this is fun. And they have a premium option too. I. I see. So that's cool. So like people might actually make money with some of these apps. Like it could happen.

[B]

Maybe it's not.

[C]

It's more than a fee. It's more than a social feed Now I'm realizing this as I'm messing with. We're so used to there being a social feed, we're fed something because that's how corporate big tech media get. Makes its ad money. You have to have a feed. Well now like you can, you can jump out of that. You can with Ditto too with Nostria. Like life is bigger than the feed. It's all about features. And if I just want to jump on one of these apps and just look at music or live streams, I don't ever have to like engage in a social feed where I have to talk to people. I can just enjoy like other entertainment. That's kind of nice. It's kind of a sudden realization for me there that we can, we can use the Internet to our advantage. Hello. That's awesome.

[B]

Well, I think this is a good segue. What if The Internet was used to your disadvantage.

[C]

Well, that's like every day, every time I'm on, like the Instagram or whatever, there's multiple states.

[B]

Well, we'll just say multiple places in the world, but there's new states that are making the news this past week that want to push and are pushing age verification. And there's been a lot of talk about age verification in operating systems. Me, as a technical person, I don't understand why the software that communicates with my hardware needs to know how old I am.

[C]

Right. Well, you really weird, you and I, to verify our age anywhere, we have to spin the wheel back to the 1900s. Okay. So, like, sure, probably not as effective.

[B]

This just doesn't make any sense.

[C]

Well, it creates new problems.

[B]

Let's, let's spin this towards the Noster verse here. So age verification, maybe somehow it comes to operating systems in these specific jurisdictions. So what if in this jurisdiction I'm running a relay? I don't live in this jurisdiction, but the data center that I have happens to be in California. Maybe, for example.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Or a person lives in California and uses my relay that is hosted here in Pennsylvania, but they're a user that's in California.

[C]

We're crossing jurisdictions now, and maybe that person is.

[B]

What does this mean for me as a relay operator? What does this mean for me as a Noster client?

[C]

Are you breaking a law? Like, because we have this uncensorable technology that anybody can use. And then what happens? Do the feds come and raid your rack in your house? Do they come get you? Do they shut down your cloud?

[B]

Do they come knock on my door and say, hey, there's a user in California that connected to the Derek Ross relay. You didn't ask their age?

[C]

Yeah, well, sorry, man.

[B]

Like, I can't stop. I can't stop people from connecting to a free and open Internet, because don't

[C]

you have to be a certain age at least 18 in Mississippi, for example, I think happened last year. I remember rabble was posting about it, like, what are relay operators going to do? You know, do you. Who's sitting there?

[B]

I mean, Noster's flying under the radar right now, essentially. So, you know, we, we're probably small footprint.

[C]

No kids are using it that we know of. I mean, you know, maybe your kids

[B]

have accounts at some point.

[C]

Yeah, this is.

[B]

It's a real question. At some point, someone's gonna have to have an answer for. I don't know.

[C]

Yeah. If it becomes popular or excuse, I'd

[B]

rather say GFY and turn My relay off than have to KYC people.

[C]

Well, I mean, look at, I mean,

[B]

that's what I would do.

[C]

Kids under 18 in Mississippi, Australia, different parts of the world, they might say, oh, I can use Nostr. It doesn't, it's not banning me automatically. Like Facebook, Twitter, etc are banning me automatically. So I guess me and my friends are going to go over to Nostr. We're going to use that. That sort of becomes an issue. This becomes more widespread.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Circumvent. Yeah. Then it becomes an issue. And then relay operators, blossom operators, client operators. Well, you know, web app operators, whatever.

[C]

Anybody operating a cloud.

[B]

If you run a portion of the ecosystem, there may come a time soon when someone says, hey, you need to do a thing. And like I said, I, I'm curious what we can all say right now. Sure. I will say go yourself. But you know that, that I also don't have infinite wealth to fight a government lawsuit either. So.

[C]

Right. You're not gonna fight, you're just gonna turn it off.

[B]

I'll just turn it off.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Like that's, that's when it comes down to it. And then miraculously, a similar service reappears on tour.

[C]

Like, or you just run a relay for your household, for your wife and kids and maybe a couple.

[B]

Well, yeah, you know, like what relay? I, you know, I'll, I'll run everything

[C]

over to, you know. Yeah.

[B]

Derek Ross shut downs, his shut shuts down his relay. Coincidentally, Eric Moss's tour relay launches.

[C]

Like, Eric boss. That's not his boss name, by the way. But yeah, I don't know.

[B]

I'm telling jokes, but it's a serious question. At some point we're gonna have to

[C]

have, you know, there's two schools of thought on it, like there is with anything anymore. And who was the guy that wrote the book the Anxious Generation? I saw him on Bill Maher the other day. He was talking about, he has a new book, you know, for children. Right. He's targeting the children demographic of like kids helping kids with the Internet. And that was interesting. But, you know, he's, he's very anti kids being on the Internet. And I'm, I'm very like, I get that. But I'm also like, there's research that our colleague Liz at AOS did on this subject of there is actually a better way. And she backs it with research of you should have teachable moments with your kids instead of ripping the Internet away from them completely. Like that has an negative effect as well. So I like the more balanced take that Liz's research has where it's like, I don't want my kids on the Internet without my oversight. And to be able to talk, you know, through it and have these teachable moments of like, hey, maybe somebody's being a predator against you on the Internet. This is where we talk about this. Rather than you getting triangulated away with, you know, away from me and off to this predator. Like, I have these conversations with my kid when Facebook was popular. This was 20 years ago. And she's an adult now. But you know, that was a major issue for us back in the day because she would just add anybody as her friend on Facebook. And I'm like, you don't know these people. She's like, yeah, I do. And I'm like, no, you don't. We don't know that they are actually classmates.

[B]

Well, it gets back to being a parent.

[C]

Yeah, you have to still parent your children. You know, the Internet can't do it.

[B]

Right. Be a fucking parent.

[C]

Right, Exactly.

[B]

We don't have AI parents yet. Right.

[C]

Like, you know, you see that? But my mind immediately went to probably somebody's doing it.

[B]

Yeah, you know, I exactly. I jokingly said this and I'm like, wait a second. My, my open call agent sits in my family chat. I could literally have it parent for, you know I'm joking.

[C]

Ground your kid when they do something.

[B]

I would like to think I'm a good parent from time to time, but

[C]

if you stay out late, you're gonna trigger the bot to punish you. Don't think down.

[B]

Now. See, that's the good, that's the good parenting that I would do. It would, you know, check my kids location. If it's like after 11pm and they're not home, it's going to DM them grounded. Like, see the, like now that I could get behind. That sounds fun.

[C]

I kind of like that actually.

[B]

My kids are going to hate me. I'm going to, I'm going to build this bot to like look at their locations and, and DM them if they're not home.

[C]

Take some of the, the drama out of it. Just streamlines the grounding, you know.

[B]

Yeah, it's like complain to the robot, you know, don't complain to me. You're the one that fucked up.

[C]

The robot has created a robust grounding procedure that is automated and streamlined.

[B]

Yeah, if, listen, if you can prompt inject the robot and get out of being grounded, then you won. Then like prompt inject the robot. Get out of grounding.

[C]

I feel like, I feel like Your. Your son's probably three months away from being able to know how to do that. So, like, be careful what you wish for.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. Like, yeah, he's. He's gonna figure out a way to do this. And if he isn't figuring out a way to do this, maybe I hope he does that. My parenting has failed because I want him.

[C]

I would unground the. Out of a kid who could figure that out. Like, that'd be cool, man. My kid wouldn't.

[B]

Well, that's showing your critical thinking, your creativity, and your communication schools. We're getting back to the three Cs. Like, I don't think that needs to be rewarded.

[C]

Not even the niece or the nephew would figure out how to do that. They still hate AI. Last. Last I checked. I'll check again soon. Well, let you know.

[B]

We. We're gonna have to answer these questions from verifications and, and overreaching governments and tech companies. At some point, maybe we just ask the bots to answer for us. I don't know.

[C]

I think it's only getting worse. I think this is. This is part of the zoom out, bigger picture of, like, if we control the youth, we ultimately control them as adults. If we teach them the Internet, bad, wrong, you should use it early on, and they're always going to have a negative view of it, and then they're only going to have a big tech view and a statist view of it. And we're not laying great groundwork here for the future of people who aren't aware that, you know, open source is out there and the Internet's still free somewhere. We're still working on it. We still have really open AI that's not stalking you and spying. And, you know, we do have this other world. We're building it. Can you come join us? Join us on ditto2.

[B]

And join us on the fun side.

[C]

Use our tools. They're free. Why do you have to keep signing up for all these things that want to charge you money to be seen? You have to pay Twitter. This is getting really stupid. And you're like, the product no matter what because you either have to pay to be seen on Twitter or it's feeding you ads and then Instagram's spying on your location and Facebook's literally probably

[B]

eavesdropping looking to make the Internet fun again.

[C]

Yeah, like, right, all this, the stuff that's been going on has not been fun. But yeah, we're gonna have ditto. And I have the grunge theme, and that makes me happy. And I'LL pin my podcast to it, and it'll feel like it's mine, and that's probably all I need to be happy. But I will still keep creating issues.

[B]

And you can call it. You can call it Heather space.

[C]

Heather space. That's kind of. Yeah.

[B]

I don't know.

[C]

That'll be like, cat lady space. Me and Morgan will start our own, like, Cat lady follow pack.

[B]

I just had an interesting idea. I'm not going to give it away because it's so. Maybe it's. It's a business idea. I like it. I like it.

[C]

Yeah, I was keeping it under his.

[B]

I like it.

[C]

Oh, my gosh. All right, all right, Derek. Well, all right.

[B]

We are out of time, coincidentally, anyways, right?

[C]

You got to get packed for Austin.

[B]

There's some AI stuff I wanted to talk about, but maybe we can hit it up next week.

[C]

There's always going to be AI stuff to talk about. We'll never run out, bro. It's all good. So have a good, fun time in Austin, and I want to hear how it goes. I want a full report, full details.

[B]

We're going to be taking over the world, one decentralized city at a time. I don't even know what that means, but it sounds provocative, so we're going to do it.

[C]

Put lots of divines on Divine. Heather and Dario, see you at south by Southwest.