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Social Media Marketing Podcast
Anticipation Marketing: Crushing Your Next Launch Without Being Salesy
00:45:51
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- [00:01]
Michael Stelzner
Before we get started with today's episode, I thought I'd share a special recipe for cooking up marketing success in 2025. Here's the ingredients. Two cups of AI marketing know how. One heaping portion of Instagram growth strategies. A generous serving of Facebook ads mastery. 3 tablespoons of networking opportunities. A pinch of San Diego sunshine. Mix all the ingredients together at Social media Marketing World 2025. Here's what Laura Kashla said. This was honestly the best conference I've attended in my professional life. Save your seat at the table today by visiting social media marketing world.info welcome to the Social Media Marketing Podcast, helping you navig the social media jungle. And now here is your host, Michael Stelzner. Hello, hello, hello. Thank you so much for joining me for the Social Media Marketing podcast brought to you by Social Media Examiner. I'm your host, Michael Stelzner, and this is the podcast for marketers and business owners who want to know how to navigate the ever changing marketing jungle. Today we're going to be joined by Brennan McGowan and we're going to explore the concept of anticipation marketing. And if you've struggled with your marketing and you just can't seem to get people to buy, maybe you need a better strategy. And I think today's episode is going to absolutely blow your mind. By the way, if you're new to this podcast, be sure to follow this show on whatever app you're listening to so you don't miss any of our future content. Let's transition over to this week's interview with Brendan McGowan, helping you to simplify your social safari. Here is this week's expert guide. Today, I'm very excited to be joined by Brenna McGowan. If you don't know who Brenna is, she is a copywriter and a launch strategist who specializes in helping coaches, course creators and consultants exceed their sales goals in an authentic way. Her pre launch plan program is for entrepreneurs and includes coaching and training. Her online event is called behind the Launch. Brenna, welcome to the show. How you doing today?
- [02:26]
Brenna McGowan
Thank you. I'm so excited to be here.
- [02:27]
Michael Stelzner
Awesome to have you here. Today, Brendan and I are going to explore how to employ anticipation in your marketing and I'm really excited to learn from you today. Before we get on that really interesting deep dive, I'd love to hear a little bit about your backstory. How'd you get into marketing? How'd you get into this anticipation stuff? Start wherever you want to start.
- [02:47]
Brenna McGowan
Yeah. So I was primarily A stay at home mom. And what ended up happening, A few things collided at once, which was I was about to turn 40 and going into. Into midlife and I was working as an assistant and administrative assistant. And I had done some in the back, like I had done a little bit of social media, blogs and emails, but it wasn't my primary job, especially at the time that I decided to, that I needed a change. I was working as an assistant and I just started to think, like, I just didn't imagine when I was young that I would be an assistant, you know, that just wasn't what I thought about. So I ended up, at that time, I had a friend who, who was starting an esthetician business. And at that time she needed some social media marketing. And so I offered to help her do her Instagram and some email marketing in exchange for eyelashes. I joke around that I started my business out of vanity and the marketing I was doing for her was picking up some traction. And I thought, oh my gosh, like, maybe this is a business. And so I advertised myself. I started. I didn't even have a Facebook page that I was even using for my personal life.
- [04:01]
Michael Stelzner
When was this, by the way? How long ago are we talking here?
- [04:04]
Brenna McGowan
So this was at the end of 2017, beginning of 2018. So I believe it was right around April of 2018 that I threw out a post on Facebook. And my whole goal at this time was like, okay, if I can make like $500 extra a month, I can take my kids to school, pick them up, I can pay the electric bill, get Botox occasionally because I'm now old and have wrinkles. And I was like, okay, if I can do this, then I'll be super happy. And I found myself as a social media manager. Didn't. Didn't quite understand what I was getting myself into. And I just threw myself into the social media marketing world and actually transitioned to copywriting pretty quickly from that point. And what ended up happening is I was doing copywriting, primarily emails, websites, but I ended up writing a lot of launch copy. And there was this. During this time when I started to write launch copy, there was a moment where I wrote a launch sequence for a client and it bombed. And I was devastated. And I know you're a copywriter, like there, there's so much you just wonder like, am I even equipped to do this? Like, should I even be asking people for money? Like this just promotion didn't work. What was wrong with the copy? And so when I was able to, at that point, after I got over, like, you know, after I cried a little bit and got over the bit of a devastation for how this campaign didn't go well. When I was able to take a moment and reflect, what I realized was we didn't properly warm up her audience. We abruptly put out an offer to an audience who wasn't ready, even though it was a large audience. Right. We. We didn't prep the offer the way it needed to be. And so when I was able to kind of take that step back and realize that, it truly opened up my eyes. And I decided to take my copywriting skills and kind of go back to that. That content that I used to do for clients and think, how could we merge copy and content? How could we create a campaign before the campaign, if you will? And so I asked a client, I said, I have this idea to do a longer Runway with this system that I've kind of thought of in my head. Can we try it out on you? And once we did that, once we were able to do a longer Runway, build anticipation. Some of the things we're going to talk about today, we saw amazing results. So her results were, I think, 50% higher than her last promotion. She had to do less sales calls. She was someone who was introverted, so the fact that she didn't have to be on more sales calls, and not only that, she called in better fit clients, people that really fit the mold of what she was trying to get into. And at that point, I was like, okay, I'm onto something. And here we are today.
- [06:46]
Michael Stelzner
Very cool. So tell us a little bit about what you're doing today.
- [06:49]
Brenna McGowan
Right? So I talk about anticipation, marketing, and something I've created now, trademarked, and. And what it is, is how can we use anticipation? And our natural. We're wired for anticipation, whether you realize it or not. We're recording this right now, right before Christmas and the holidays. And so I think about how excited we are, how my kids are talking about it, how we're already talking about what we're doing for New Year's, right? There's these simple events in our life that we're super excited about, but really what anticipation is, is how can we get people excited and how can we create Buy in before we ever put an offer in front of someone? And so the way I think about anticipation, I think the best way to describe it and demonstrate it is movies. Because I think people who create and promote movies do this beautifully. And it's something that we can kind of take into our regular marketing that we're doing in our businesses. So if we think about a movie, you don't find out about a movie. The day a movie comes out. It's up to 120 days beforehand that they're starting to get buy in from you. So first of all, when we're talking about anticipation, we have to think, okay, we're creating excitement, right? The definition of anticipation is excitement waiting eagerly for something to happen. So you have to build a little time into your promotional schedule to build the anticipation that we're talking about. But the other cool thing that happens with a movie is that you are seeing little bits and pieces of trailers for a movie, right? So what they're doing at that point is they are giving you a little piece. They're creating open loops for what's to happen. What you don't realize is that you become a buyer of a movie even if you haven't exchanged dollars yet. Because at that point when you're watching a trailer, if you think about the last time you went to a movie theater and you're sitting in, you're watching a trailer, you're going, yeah, I actually want to see that, that movie next time. That's something I want to watch. So what it also does is a movie is able to position themselves in your brain, right? They're able to gain your attention ahead of time. The other thing that happens with movies is because they've done this anticipation, they've done this buildup because they have created open loops. Meaning when you're watching a trailer and you're thinking like if you think about how a trailer goes, they're giving little pieces where you're leaning in, but they don't tell you what the resolution is. So the other thing that happens with movies is that they increase their sales because they're doing that. And when you are able to, finally the movie comes out, the box open day is always the largest day of a movie. And it's because they've done all of the pre work. So so often we think of promotions at the time we're actually selling, when it's actually all of that buildup that sells that movie ahead of time. And it really goes back to two principles which are in my mind, like I think it's we want what we can't have, right? Anticipation is one of those things, is like it's close enough that we can feel it, but we can't actually grab it. And there is a lot of research around this that actually says that when we anticipate something, we actually feel the same amount of pleasure in the anticipation as we do when we actually get the product or service. So we're also. You're hitting, like, little bits of dopamine when you're starting to infuse more anticipation into your marketing. So we want what we can't have. And secondly, we're a little bit nosy. Right. Part of anticipation is opening loops. And so when you are creating intrigue and curiosity, you're getting people to lean in. But to me, the difference between, you know, the big difference here of anticipation is that you're getting people that are proactively coming to you. Sometimes. I know with sales, and I, you know, I do. I have my own business. I help so many different marketers and business owners promote their businesses. Sometimes you can feel like you're waving your hands out into the void, like, hey, come, you know, come, come look at my thing where anticipation gets people coming to you.
- [10:57]
Michael Stelzner
I love it, by the way. It's gold. It's solid gold. Everybody that was listening to you just didn't want you to stop talking. I know that's what they were thinking. All right. What I heard you say is that anticipation marketing is important because it allows you to basically warm up, or maybe to use Robert Cialdini's phrase, pre suede, which he wrote a book called Pre Suasion, to kind of get them ready for what you're about to do next when it is done well, just give me a couple of. Of like, what are the benefits if it's done well from a marketing perspective?
- [11:34]
Brenna McGowan
Well, I think the first benefit is you get your. You get people lining up to work with you and not the other way around. Right. You naturally increase sales. The other thing that's really cool is that you. Because anticipation, you can't quite get something. It creates a sense of fomo. And when we can have that sense of fomo, there's a natural sense of urgency where a lot of times I do help a lot, of course, creators. And we're thinking, how can we build an urgency? The best urgency you can get is when you get someone who's like, I want this thing, and they're doing it without doors closing, countdown timers, discounts ending. Right. We're getting that, like, natural desire for what someone wants and really playing into that. So there's so many. You increase your sales. Part of that is because if you think about, according to Disc, which is. I've studied it a little bit, which is a personality test, that about half of people are fast decision makers, the other half are slow Decision makers. A lot of marketing and sales tactics are really built on the person who's making decisions quickly or instantly. But if you're someone like me, I'm someone who's like, I'm going to think about it, I'm going to talk to my friends about it, I'm going to talk to my husband about it, I'm going to decide I want to do it, then I'm going to change my mind. Like, it's going to take me a minute, especially if I'm investing a chunk of money. And so a lot of marketing isn't equipped for that person who needs that slower warmup. So that's one of the other benefits, too, is that you start scooping up people that you might have otherwise left behind in your sales process.
- [13:06]
Michael Stelzner
I love this. This is so cool. All right, so where do we start? That's the big question, right? Like, let's say, all right. Everybody's like, okay, Brenna, this sounds amazing. I am interested in employing, Utilizing, deploying, whatever the right phrase is. Anticipation, marketing. Where do we begin?
- [13:25]
Brenna McGowan
Okay, so for something that's super fun, I'm going to give a really, like, unsexy answer, which is market research. And it's the thing, especially as a copywriter, it's the thing that clients don't want to do. I run. It's a thing that students are hesitant to do, but it opens your eyes when you really get into the research and really start talking to people. So the way that I love market research is voice of customer calls, where you're actually talking to someone. If you're someone who's like, oh my gosh, please don't put me on zoom. Again. Like, if you're one of those, like, you don't have to be on Zoom. I do these sometimes on Voxer, which is a walkie talkie app, where I go back and forth, forth and ask questions. And actually, I think I get better research sometimes by not staring at someone and making them think of an answer right away. So how can you just start talking to people? You could be talking to people through comments on Instagram. Instagram stories, where if you have a story that someone replies to and you can start up a conversation and just inquire. People really love to give their opinions and their input, so just asking more questions is extremely important. I also love AI for research, however, and I know you and I are both big proponents of AI and use it all the time in our business, but I like to give AI a little bit of direction in terms of giving Them a line of thinking, not just kind of letting AI randomly pull from the Internet all types of things. I find that the research gets better when I can say, okay, here's what I'm seeing. This is what I'm looking at. Can you give me more, you know, more examples like this or are there any points that are missing? Are there any hidden objections like there's asking different questions. The other thing I love when I'm using AI for research too, is it to ask for it to give me dialogue of what conversations, what people are saying in their head. So just collecting research, doing surveys, sending a survey out to your email list is another great way. But you always want to be asking open ended questions to really get down to the heart. Because if you want someone to. If we're trying to get someone to anticipate something, we have to truly understand who they are and what they want to anticipate. And if we want to create open loops, we have to know what's important to them. So we know those little bits and pieces that we have to leave out in their marketing that creates that intrigue that gets them leaning into what we do.
- [15:42]
Michael Stelzner
Okay, Voice of Customer Calls. Just give us a couple tips on how to do that because we've never talked about that before. And then I want to talk about this buyer belief thing that you and I were talking about when we were prepping.
- [15:51]
Brenna McGowan
Yes. So Voice of Customer Calls is just basically like where I think about it in thinking of it like as a story arc. Like, I also let me back up from that. I do two types of Voice of Customer calls and what I recommend, which is we talk to the people who have worked with us because those are the people that are already. Those are probably the easiest calls to set up too. You can just say, hey, can we get on a call? Can we talk about our experience? That's the first set. The second set of people are people that have not bought from us. The people that are thinking about it, but haven't actually taken action to work with us. A lot of times with Voice of Customer, people concentrate on the people that have already bought. Those people are already kind of bought into our methods or methodology. We actually wanna talk to the people that are a little bit hesitant as well. So the type of questions that you wanna ask and that goes back to the story arc is like, what were your struggles? Like, what are your fears around this? What is the thing that holds you back? What have you tried before? What is the thing that you really want? What is the pain that you're trying to relieve what is the desire that you want. So when you can kind of figure, I always think of like where someone started, like where's that struggle, that pain point? What's that fear? What is the point that they know they might need to take action and what's stopping them? And then what is the thing that they truly are looking for on the other side? Because a lot, what I see a lot of times, and I help students do this all the time, is we make assumptions as to what people want. But and even if it's the same thing, the way someone will say it is a lot different than the way that we will initially present it. So when we can start capturing some of that language, it makes a huge difference in our marketing and our copy.
- [17:33]
Michael Stelzner
Yeah. And just what is this buyer belief document? Is it just taking all these things that we just captured and putting them into a document or is it something more than that?
- [17:40]
Brenna McGowan
It's a buyer belief statement. So what I consider the buyer belief statement is this isn't quite a document. It is when you're presenting someone. I should say before you present someone an offer, there's a stage beforehand. So you have to sell someone on your framework, your methodology, what's behind your offer to get the buy in on the actual solution. Right. So we have to sell the outcome before the solution. So let me explain this a little bit deeper. So a really simple way to think about this is for my customer or client to buy from me, they have to believe and we need to go into the core belief that's behind. I always say you have to sell your process, not your program or your offer, whatever it is. So for example, I have the pre launch plan program. Before someone is going to buy the pre launch plan program, they have to be bought in. They have to believe that a pre launch is a way to have promotional periods that create less stress, where they call in better clients, where they're able to pre sell more seats, where they're able to increase revenue or I was thinking for you, Mike, like for the. You have the AI Business society.
- [18:48]
Michael Stelzner
Right, right, right, right.
- [18:49]
Brenna McGowan
Okay. So for you, your buyer belief statement is for someone to. And take part of your membership. They have to believe that AI is the way for them to stay ahead.
- [19:00]
Michael Stelzner
Oh yeah. That will help them increase their productivity, be more creative, save them time, all those things. They have to believe that. Yeah.
- [19:07]
Brenna McGowan
Yes. And that is what you are selling to someone during this anticipation period. The promotion, before the actual promotion is that you're trying to get buy in on that because once you have buy in that and you present them with the membership, it's a much natural progression. What I see often two times is that people are trying to smush this all into one, you know, promotional period and then things get lost in translation.
- [19:32]
Michael Stelzner
I love it. Okay, so what I've heard you say is that before we begin this anticipation marketing concept, we need information. Ideally, this information is sourced from actual customers or actual prospects that somebody has talked to to understand what their uncertainties are, their struggles are, their fears, their real desires, the things that they really, really want. Right. And then ideally you develop some sort of belief statement that in order for someone to buy product X, they must believe this is true. So we set that foundation and now on top of that, we're going to build this anticipation marketing concept. Right, so like, what comes next?
- [20:17]
Brenna McGowan
Right, so the thing that comes next is thinking about your content plan. Like, what are, what type of content are you putting out to your clients, your customers? And so this can be anything. So you can use the types of content. We're going to be discussing whether it's, you are someone who does email, you have a podcast, you spend a lot of time on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn. Wherever your marketing channels are is where you can start infusing what we're talking about in here. So the first step is, okay, now I gotta like back up and figure out when am I gonna start this process. And I like to start typically four to six weeks before I put an offer out. And now I know like what people are gonna say is like, oh my gosh, four to six weeks. Like, but you're putting out content anyway. So this is about really being smart about the content you're putting out before you start heavily promoting a single offer.
- [21:11]
Michael Stelzner
Okay, so let's say we are going to go like with a four or six week thing. Let's talk about what do we do in the first week.
- [21:19]
Brenna McGowan
So I like to break it into weeks so it doesn't have to be weeks. But that's the way my brain kind of organizes content. So the first week that we do, and just so you know, if someone's listening to this and they're in the car, I have a freebie at the end as a launch calendar and it will break down these steps for you so you don't have to take notes on this step by step. So the first thing is you want to talk about your why and this is your story told in the frame of the reader in terms of your offer. So this can be, you know, Some people will call it an origin story. I don't quite see it that way. I see it more on as like, okay, how can we tell a story about why we do what we do.
- [21:59]
Michael Stelzner
Under the framework we just talked about? Right, that it has to relate to the buyer beliefs.
- [22:03]
Brenna McGowan
Right, exactly.
- [22:04]
Michael Stelzner
So that's the important frame. We're telling a story about why we do what we do that triggers presumably those beliefs. Is that where you were going to go with that? I mean, I don't know. I just could sense it.
- [22:14]
Brenna McGowan
Yeah, yeah. No, you nailed it. And I did a little bit of this at the very beginning. If you think about my why story, right, which is I was a copywriter, I went into a launch, the launch bombed. I started to think about why it bombed. And through that I came up with this system to do the pre launch process. So it's a very natural story if you think about it. It's just, how did you get into your niche, your industry? What frustrates you on behalf of your clients and your customers? Reasons you do, why you do what you do? So you're really just exploring different reasons this week of how you got into your business.
- [22:55]
Michael Stelzner
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- [23:54]
Brenna McGowan
Well, story, first of all, people buy story gets into your subconscious. So you're getting to people's subconscious. And of course, stories, people just remember stories better. I always tell the story at the beginning about how I wanted to get Botox and people make little jokes with me about it. Now it's become and it's a little vulnerable. Right. Most women are out there talking about how they get injections once in a while and that's why they start their business. So I kind of do it a little bit for entertainment factor, but also because it makes me Human. And that's why you want to humanize your brand. You want to create emotional connection. And really what it does is people don't buy Simon Sinek. I always go back to the quote, people don't buy what you do, they buy why you do it. So when you can create a story and people can feel like they know you, and especially right now, at the end of 2024, as we entered 2025, I know at least in my industry, trust is a little off. People are hesitant to spend money. And so this also really creates an opportunity for you to build, you know, the classic know, like and trust.
- [24:54]
Michael Stelzner
I love that. The question that goes through my mind, and it might be going through the minds of some of these people, is how long of a story do I tell? So if I have a week to tell it, and let's say I have, you know, the socials as the primary thing or email, am I just telling a little 60 second story or how much of the story do I share? Do I split it up over time? What's your perspective on that?
- [25:14]
Brenna McGowan
Yeah, it's a great question. It depends on the different content that you're putting out. So if you're doing a podcast episode, yeah, you probably are telling that story all at once. But maybe I'm breaking this up into reels. And I think about, like, I always have my students think of what are three reasons why you do what you do. So, for example, for me, one reason is that I wanted flexibility. I wanted to be able to pick up my kids from school, right. So my deeper reasoning is that I really wanted a lifestyle. Another reason is I wanted to find a way to increase sales without, like, sales pressure. Like, I'm not someone who's like a natural salesperson. And I wanted to find a way to help my clients and customers sell in a way that felt authentic and real, where they could tell stories to sell, where they weren't depending on, like, the conversion copywriter tactics that were taught as copywriters. Another reason I do what I do is because I wanted people to be able to use their content in a way that makes more sales in the end. So I start looking at these different facets of why I do what I do, and then I could break those up into little pieces of content. So the answer is you can do all of it at once. You can break it up into little pieces. It just depends on the output, you know, where you're putting this information that can make a difference.
- [26:28]
Michael Stelzner
I love it. Okay, so in the first week of this multi week concept that we're talking about, and we're really splitting this into about five weeks, if I'm not mistaken. So the first week really is storytelling time, which, frankly, is kind of probably the easiest part of this entire process, because everybody has a story, and all they got to do is just decide to tell. So let's move on to week two, actually. I mean, unless there's something else we need to know about the storytelling.
- [26:55]
Brenna McGowan
I'll give you a quick example of what this can look like with one of my students. And you think that this would be the easiest? I actually find that this is the hardest because everything else we're going to talk about moving forward is all, literally, you're going to take that market research we talked about in the beginning, and you're just divvying it up into content. It becomes plug and play, where your story. Sometimes people are like, they're afraid to tell their story. They don't think their story matters. They don't think it's important. They don't think it's interesting. And so I find sometimes that the story is a little bit difficult. So one of my students, Michelle Pollock, we're working together right now in my program, and we started to think about, like, why she does what she does. And she's an executive coach. She helps female business owners really get satisfaction fulfillment from their careers that they're not currently feeling right now. And so what we were able to do is kind of back up into her why, in terms of. Of her offer and say she also was in the same position where she was an executive. She was. Or a manager, I should say. And what she was doing, she had this shiny job. She worked in Hollywood, she worked in Broadway. She was living in la. But she wasn't happy with her career. And so what she ended up doing, and she just thought, like, is this everything? Is this what I'm doing for my rest of my life? Like, there was. She just didn't have satisfaction. And so she's able now to help take that experience that she has. And now she does coaching that helps women find fulfillment. So that's the way that. And you don't have to necessarily have the exact same experience where Michelle is very linear. It doesn't have to be that. But yeah, you just want to be able to tell that story once again in terms of the reader and what they're going through.
- [28:35]
Michael Stelzner
Well, and I'll just add my 2 cents in here before we go on. Everybody who's listening. When you funnel your story in a certain direction. You can tell that story over and over again, different aspects of that story. So don't feel like you've already told the story and you cannot tell it again. You just kind of maybe tell it through a different lens or through a different frame or another side of the story, because there's so many sides to every single story. I've done this successfully over my entrepreneurial career for 25 years. I've told different parts of different stories to try to get different effect, and it absolutely can happen. So let's move on to what happens in the second week.
- [29:13]
Brenna McGowan
So the second week is what I call pain points week. So pain point week is where you're thinking of a specific pain problem challenge that someone's going through in terms, once again, of the offer that you solve.
- [29:27]
Michael Stelzner
Well, let's elaborate on that.
- [29:28]
Brenna McGowan
Yeah. So why this is so important is people want to feel seen, heard, understood. They want to buy from someone that can empathize with the challenges that they're going through. And once again, this all goes back to why research is so important. Because when we can actually step into the life of someone who's going through and understand their struggles, then we can actually represent it in our copy in a way that they feel like, oh, my gosh, this person, like, truly gets me. The really important part here that I want you to kind of keep in mind is that a lot of times we want to solve someone's problem, especially like in online marketing, where we're taught to give a lot of value. And in order to give value, we have to be educational. We have to solve the problem. That's not what we're doing during this period of time. What we're doing during this period of time is making someone, like, once again, make them feel like we understand what they're going through. And also we're reminding people of the pain that they're in. And this might sound silly a little bit, but sometimes we have to be reminded of what we're going through, the cost of not taking action, what is actually doing to us to not be taking care of this problem. And because as humans, we naturally think, okay, unless the pain is so acute. And those are the people that buy from you right now. Those are the ones that are like, oh, my gosh, I have this problem. I need to solve it today. But there's a lot of us that are like, yeah, I don't know, like, I need to kind of solve this. But I could think of several things in my own life that are like a problem. I'm Having, but the pain hasn't been acute enough. And so you want to kind of come in and gently. Some people may say agitate. I don't know if I love the word agitate here, but what I do like is like, okay, let remind them of the pain. Let's reframe what the impact it's taking on their life.
- [31:17]
Michael Stelzner
Yeah. Can you give us some examples?
- [31:19]
Brenna McGowan
So one of my students, Susan Reoch, she does a beautiful job, and she's a UX copywriter.
- [31:25]
Michael Stelzner
You should describe what UX is for people that don't know what that means.
- [31:28]
Brenna McGowan
Yes. Thank you. User experience. So she really focuses on the user experience in terms of copywriting. And so for Susan's people. Susan's people are copywriters, typically website copywriters. A lot of times they're taking on website projects that are like 100 pages. They're huge website projects, but not necessarily all of them. What happens is. And she tells a story. And this is why I love this, what we're talking about so much, because you're using story throughout. So instead of, like, doing what would feel like sales content, we're telling simple stories of. For. In this example, Susan's clients, she was talking about. Susan herself has two young girls. And how, like, when there's so much going on in life, it can feel hard to take any action. And then on top of it, when you get a new website copy project, all of a sudden you're like, where do I even start? Like, as a copywriter, sometimes I'm looking at a blank page. I know I have to do research. I know I have to do the writing. I know I have to present to the client all the planning. And so she kind of really dove into, like, what this person was feeling at this point in time. So the person who's reading this is going, yeah, that's exactly how I feel. And so what Susan was able to do from that email is she didn't give them a 1, 2, 3 answer of to fix it. What she was then able to do, the cta, was, hey, come listen to this video. Well, when I talk to you about why taking advantage of UX copywriting right now is the thing for you that was in her exact title, but instead she was furthering the relationship in terms of getting people to buy in once again, to that buyer belief statement that her buyer belief statement would be that to be, I wouldn't say successful copywriter, but to be a copywriter who's in demand is that you need to have this UX experience.
- [33:15]
Michael Stelzner
Okay? This is interesting, and I'm just going to free flow a little bit with you on AI, for example. So if I was trying to talk about the challenges that people face right now with AI, I would say AI is scary. A lot of people are concerned that it's going to take their job, and a lot of people are concerned that the machine is going to suck up all their information and give it away to other people. These are legit concerns. Everything in me wants to address those concerns. But what I might say instead is I've got a podcast episode where I kind of help people see past that. Is that how I would do something like this in this week, or would it be something else?
- [33:55]
Brenna McGowan
Yeah, I would definitely make sure that hook is something that they want to know. So we're spending a lot of times really thinking of the angles and the hooks of, like, where we're pushing people to. But yeah, exactly. Because what ends up happening is that we think sometimes by giving people a lot of information, it's going to help them. But it does one of two things. A lot of times, a lot of information, it either overwhelms them and they go, in this case, especially with AI, you give me too much information about AI. And I'm like, okay, I know how.
- [34:20]
Michael Stelzner
I would finish this. Then I would go on to say, while those things are true, it's actually not stopping marketers from moving forward with AI. And the truth of the matter is that there's plenty of people that. That would rather hire some. A marketer who understands AI versus one who does not understand AI. And if you want to secure your job in the future, you really need to take action, something along those lines. Right. To help them understand what's at stake. Right. And then I would say, I've got a free report that you can download to understand more about this or something like that. Is that the way I would do something like that?
- [34:51]
Brenna McGowan
Exactly, exactly. Or, and, or depending on where you're at and what you. What your strategy is, you might even tease, hey, I actually have a membership that I'm going to be opening up where you can get this help. But in the meantime, go grab this free report. So you're doing this little seeding in, right? So you're helping people stay out of that overwhelm. And the other thing you're not doing, the second thing that people, what happens is when you give them too much information, they feel like, oh, cool, I listened to this and now I totally understand AI. Even though you and I both know that's not True. And they go and try and do it on their own. So it really doesn't serve our people especially. I don't mind that type of content as much, like, when we're not in right before promotional period, but we really want to stay out of it right before promotion.
- [35:33]
Michael Stelzner
Well, and the key take home is don't solve it at this stage. Just talk about the cost of not taking action. Right. And then give them something maybe to chew on. I mean, you don't even have to give them anything at this point. You can just, like, address it. Because we're building anticipation. Right. Like, wouldn't it be amazing if there was a way to become more valued as a marketer and have it be powered by AI? Something along those lines. Okay, so first week is I'm telling stories about me. Second week through the lens of the problem that the customer is facing. Second week is I'm talking about the struggle. The. The struggle that my audience faces, your audience faces. And I'm trying to develop resonance and affinity with them and at the same time inspire them that they. They can't stay in their little mud puddle. They've got to move.
- [36:23]
Brenna McGowan
Right, exactly.
- [36:24]
Michael Stelzner
So what comes next? What's in the third week?
- [36:25]
Brenna McGowan
So the third week is what I call myth week. And myth week is where you are really tapping into those common misconceptions that people have in terms of what you offer or your buyer belief statement. So when you're thinking about these misconceptions, the way I think about it is it's the things that we believe to be true that aren't necessarily true, but they are true for us based on our circumstances, our lived experiences, our different viewpoints. So we really want to tap into what does someone believe about my industry, my offer, my buyer belief statement that isn't necessarily true and doesn't benefit them? And what are those limiting beliefs around that subject? And this is really important because when we can reframe how someone thinks about a subject or a situation, they just become more receptive to taking advantage of their offer and not just taking advantage of our offer, but actually helping themselves and get out of that pain that they are in.
- [37:24]
Michael Stelzner
So how would we do that with our content in that week? Would this just be a couple, like, graphical posts or something with like, lie, truth kind of thing?
- [37:32]
Brenna McGowan
Or.
- [37:32]
Michael Stelzner
What are we talking about here?
- [37:33]
Brenna McGowan
Exactly, Yeah, I mean, you could do. I'm usually not that obvious. It's more of tapping into. Once again, going back to your research, figuring out, okay, what are those top three or four things that People believe that aren't necessarily true. And then creating content around that, once again, whether it's through lives, podcasts, like.
- [37:53]
Michael Stelzner
Here'S a common misconception about, about AI, right? That it's stupid and it will never make you smart. Something along those lines, right?
- [38:00]
Brenna McGowan
Yeah.
- [38:01]
Michael Stelzner
And then here's the truth. Some of the most brilliant people in the world, including Nobel winning scientists, are using it to literally change their industries. Right? I mean, something along those lines, right?
- [38:10]
Brenna McGowan
Yeah, yeah. And just thinking of it in terms of once again who your client or customer is.
- [38:14]
Michael Stelzner
Yeah. Maybe I'd have to come up with a better example, right?
- [38:16]
Brenna McGowan
Yeah. And I'm not saying that's it, but it might be depending on, you know, I deal with a lot of bit of like small business owners who think like, oh my gosh, AI is, you know, or I know as a copywriter originally when it came out I felt like AI was cheating a bit. Right. Like I feel like I'm cheating if I'm using AI. So you get to tap into like those fun different angles that you might not otherwise. So it doesn't have to be, you know, so for like that sense, if we're talking about cheating. So I might tell a story that is an analogy of a time that I cheated and felt guilty about it. And then a segue over could be like this is how I felt about AI at first, but actually this is what I've discovered by using it. So people come once again because you're telling stories and it's maybe not so in your face like, you know, this is AI before, this is AI after one of my clients and customers, Julie Cabezas, she is a copywriter and a high ticket sales mentor. And so what she ended up doing inside of her pre launch, for example, was one of her, she does a video inside of her Facebook group every week. And because she does high ticket sales, her people are, one of the misconceptions is that they're going to be perceived as greedy if they start charging more. So what they were able to do is do a live where they actually talked about personal stories around their own journey to becoming high ticket mentors and actually demonstrate what that looked like. So yeah, so there's, there's all kinds of fun in different ways. There's no right or wrong to this. And also we haven't even gotten there though. I do this in weeks because in my mind it's kind of a natural buildup. But people don't watch our stuff linear either. So if you bounce around a little bit like, no one's going to be hurt in the process.
- [39:58]
Michael Stelzner
Okay. I love where this is going. What's the next week? The fourth week?
- [40:01]
Brenna McGowan
Okay, the fourth week is. Objection. So if you think about it, first, we've established who we are. We know the people recognize that we can help them in the pain that they're in. Now. We're dealing with those hesitations, those things that stop people from taking action. So an objection is, you know, concerns or doubts that you can actually help them. The way that you're saying you can help them, and you know, why this matters is so much, is that if we don't kind of walk people through these objections and hit them head on, they don't buy from us. If people have enough objections, it stops the buying process. So this is truly, really dealing with myths and objections is really, really important. In this Runway up to your launch.
- [40:43]
Michael Stelzner
Give us an example of an objection that you probably have dealt with.
- [40:47]
Brenna McGowan
Yeah, well, one of my big objections for what the process I'm talking about is, okay, are people going to get sick of hearing about this particular subject, or does this seem like too much work? So you have to think about, people aren't going to buy from me. If they don't, that this process can be easy and fluid, then they're never. No matter. No matter if they think this is the best thing that's ever happened, they're not going to take advantage of it. I think about a story about objections. I have a customer story I'll tell or a client story. But something that happened to me last month is I was in the line at the airport for tsa. For some reason, no matter how much I travel, I have not motivated myself, myself to get TSA pre. So here's that person, that pain we're talking about. I felt the pain, but it hasn't been bad enough. Right? But what happened last month, totally worth it. Yeah, I know. It's so silly. It's like $97 for five years. So here I am standing at the TSA, I'm going to a speaking engagement, and the line is long. And I'm usually that person's like, two hours early to get to the airport. But not today. Like, today I'm running late, and the line is longer than I've ever seen it in Sacramento. And I'm starting to freak out. And there's this guy coming, right? This clear guy, and he's like, hey, jump out of line with me and you can get through the line. And, you know, he's. He's shouting out to everyone, which is how I think of marketing in general. A lot of times is here this guy is shouting out to this crowd, trying to get people to come to him, and we're all standing in line and we're like, okay, this sounds good, but what happens if I get out.
- [42:21]
Michael Stelzner
Of line and I gotta get back in line again and he can't do.
- [42:25]
Brenna McGowan
What he told me he was gonna do? Exactly. And so that was my objection. It was like, it wasn't even. Sometimes. Sometimes we think of like, oh, it's the cost or the time. Right. Which are bigger objections.
- [42:35]
Michael Stelzner
But in your case, it was a lack of belief in what he was saying, right?
- [42:38]
Brenna McGowan
Yeah, it was a lack of belief. It was. I was scared if I got out of this line, I was going to miss my flight. If I missed my flight, I was going to miss my speaking engagement. So there was this whole internal thought that happened in just seconds. Right. And these are the type of people that you're dealing with. You're dealing with unreasonable people like me who have not gotten tsa, even though they know that they need it and they have the money to pay for clear, but they're still afraid to take action because of these underlying objections that aren't being concerned. Now, if that person was like, hey, you're going to get out of line, and I promise you, I guarantee you, you're going to make your flight, I may have been like, okay, cool, now I can take care of this problem. But that's not what happened.
- [43:18]
Michael Stelzner
Let's talk about what is the next week, the fifth week.
- [43:22]
Brenna McGowan
Yes. And really quick. I'll go back to a quick objection too, is like, I have my student, Emily Reagan. She does digital marketing, helps digital marketing assistants. And one of their big objections was, will I get enough clients before they're able to take her course? So she had to go through and really establish that people can get clients. So there's all these different ways to think about objections and put it into your content. So last but not least is what I call Transformation Week. And this is where you really set the stage for what's to come. Like, what is on the other side of your offer? What is the transformation they're going to have? What is the pain that they're going to get out of? What is the outcome of the offer that you're putting in front of them? And transformation is so important because this is where you can future pace people. We want to get people into the mindset of, like, okay, if I go and take advantage of this, this is what my life is going to look like, right? Like going back to that TSA example, if they had time to do this, if he could set it up, like, hey, hey, you're going on a flight in two weeks from now to go to San Diego and you're going to be able to walk through that line. You're not going to have to take your shoes off, Right? All of a sudden, I can see myself doing that. We want to get people in the place where they can actually see the results that they're going to get. Because once again, if we can get people to see it, it becomes a lot easier when I put that offer in front of them, that next week, after transformation week, they're going to be like, okay, yes, I can see this. And the other thing to keep in mind here is that people have to have a whole set of beliefs. You know, sometimes we think, like, gosh, marketing is tough. Well, it is a little tough because we're dealing, once again, unreasonable humans that are, have all of these things that are coming up and we, we're dealing with a set of beliefs of, you know, for people to buy from us, they have to believe that you are the right person that they should buy from or your business, your brand, whatever it is, they have to believe that your solution, your offer is the right one to help them. And lastly, they have to believe in themselves enough that they can actually get the results, results that you're talking about. So we really want to set the stage that is not only can you get this outcome, but it's actually possible for you in your situation.
- [45:27]
Michael Stelzner
Wow, this has been really cool, really magical. And I know we've only scratched the surface of that brain of yours. If people want to discover more about you, Brenna McGowan, what's the preferred social platform that they can connect with you on? And then also you mentioned that if they want to work with you, where do you want them to go?
- [45:47]
Brenna McGowan
Yes. So I'm on Instagram the most, so that's where you can find me. BrennanMcGowan Co Kim, say hi, I'm in my DMs more than I should be. And then you can also go and find me at BrennanMcGowan Co SME. And there I have a calendar, a launch calendar that's powered by AI. You answer a few questions and what it will do is it will actually spit out a launch plan for you based on what we've talked about. It'll tell you the certain weeks of what you do and what you need to plan and It's a really great little freebie. So come check me out over there.
- [46:21]
Michael Stelzner
Brenna B R E n n a McGowan m c g o w a n co SME Brenna, thank you so much for sharing your insights with us today.
- [46:31]
Brenna McGowan
Thank you for having me.
- [46:33]
Michael Stelzner
Wasn't Brenna amazing? She will be presenting at Social Media Marketing Marketing World. So if you're not coming, there's another reason for you to come. And by the way, if there's anything that we mentioned that you missed, we took all the notes for you over@socialmediaexaminer.com 645. If you're new to the show, be sure to follow us. If you've been a longtime listener, would you give us a review on whatever platform you're listening to and maybe share this with your friends? I'm Elsner on Facebook, Elsner on LinkedIn, and as Ike Stelzner on X. And do check out our other shows, the AI Explored Podcast and the Social Media Marketing Talk Show. This brings us to the end of the Social Media Marketing Podcast. I'm your host, Michael Stelzner. I'll be back with you next week. I hope you make the best out of your day and may your marketing keep evolving. The Social Media Marketing Podcast is a production of Social Media Examiner. Make 2025 your best year ever. Grab your discount tickets to Social Media Marketing World right now by visiting social media marketing world.in fox.