Podcast Summary

Social Media Marketing Podcast

Host: Michael Stelzner
Guest: Richard Shotten (author of Hacking the Human Mind, founder of Astroten)
Episode: Applying Behavioral Science for Improved Conversions
Release Date: October 23, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the practical application of behavioral science to improve marketing conversions. Host Michael Stelzner welcomes behavioral science expert Richard Shotten to explore why understanding and leveraging behavioral principles is crucial for marketers aiming to influence buyer decisions, set optimal pricing, convey product quality, and ultimately increase conversions.

Richard shares key research findings, real-world experiments, and actionable marketing tactics, revealing how brands can use "rules of thumb," pricing psychology, storytelling, and cognitive shortcuts to drive business results.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Behavioral Science Matters for Marketers

• Behavioral science studies what actually influences people’s decisions, moving beyond self-reporting to observed behaviors.
• Marketers are, fundamentally, in the business of behavior change – persuading prospects to try, buy, or switch brands.
• Quote:

  “If you work in marketing... you really are in the business of behavior change. Every one of those questions involves the audience changing its behavior.”
  – Richard Shotten [02:58]

Cognitive Misers & Heuristics

• Humans conserve mental energy, relying on "heuristics" (shortcuts) for most decisions.
• Notable academic quotes:
  • “People are cognitive misers.” – Susan Fiske
  • “Thinking is to humans as swimming is to cats. We can do it, but we’d prefer not to.” – Daniel Kahneman (related by Richard Shotten [04:41])
• Implication: Marketers can work with human nature (by appealing to these heuristics) rather than against them.

2. Biases: Marketing Definition & Social Proof

• In marketing, "bias" refers not to social prejudice but to deviations from purely logical purchasing.
• Examples:
  • Social Proof: People are swayed by products others buy (“We’re America’s favorite...”).
    – Richard Shotten [06:58]
  • Price as Quality: High prices can signal high quality to buyers.

3. Pricing Tactics Based on Behavioral Science

a. Price as a Signal of Quality

• Experiment: People rated identical wine as tasting 70% better when told it was expensive vs. cheap.
• “We experience what we expect to experience... One of the things that sets an expectation for a product is its price.”
  – Richard Shotten [10:52]

b. The "Pennies a Day" Effect

• Reframing cost into smaller, tangible units (e.g., "$1 a day" instead of "$365 a year") boosts perceived value and uptake.
• Study: More people valued a product as “good value” when presented with daily pricing.
• “People are very good at understanding concrete things... When you hear a dollar a day, what springs to mind is maybe a cup of coffee.”
  – Richard Shotten [17:00]
• Application: Break down price by month, week, day, or user to maximize perceived affordability.

c. Present Bias & Stepped Payments

• Tools like Klarna, Afterpay: Present costs as split payments. People give more weight to immediate pain, discounting the future.
• “We are deeply influenced by pleasure or pain that’s affecting us now or...soon. We discount very strongly... future problems.”
  – Richard Shotten [19:05]

d. Framing Annual Plans for Subscriptions

• When seeking annual sign-ups, don’t just state the yearly fee; also frame it as “$X per day/week/month.”
• Marketers should “make that daily price as salient as possible” for conversions.
  – Richard Shotten [23:10]

e. Extreme Subversion (Decoy Pricing)

• People often opt for the middle option among three price points (“compromise effect”).
• Example: Adding an ultra-premium option reframes the middle one as “reasonable.”
• “The role [of the super-premium option] isn’t to be picked. Its role is to reframe what the annual option looks like.”
  – Richard Shotten [26:40]

4. Conveying Quality: The Labor Illusion

a. Effort as a Quality Signal

• People perceive products as higher quality if they know about the effort put into making them.
• Experiment: Identical vodka rated higher if told “143 iterations” went into the design.
• Brands should communicate genuine effort, prototyping, or craftsmanship as part of their story.
• “If you want to get the best possible reception, you need to let the potential buyer know the amount of prototypes...years of experience you’ve put into it...”
  – Richard Shotten [29:00]

b. Real-World Brand Examples

• Dyson: Repeatedly shares “5,127 prototypes” in ads, online, and packaging.
• Physical Transparency: Dyson lets consumers see the inside of its vacuums — signaling complexity and effort.
  – [30:40–33:05]
• Hospitality: Restaurants with open kitchens get higher food ratings — visible effort boosts perceived quality.

c. Storytelling & Authenticity

• Share authentic origin or creation stories tailored to your brand — don’t fabricate!
• “It’s got to be something that is true to that brand’s DNA...a genuine and authentic story.”
  – Richard Shotten [35:14]

5. The Pratfall Effect: Embracing Product Flaws

• Admitting a real but strategic flaw (that highlights a core strength) increases appeal.
• “If you admit a flaw, you become more appealing.”
  – Richard Shotten [36:04]
• Example: Buckley’s Cough Syrup’s legendary “It tastes awful. And it works.” campaign.
  – [36:30]

6. Conversions: From Intention to Action

a. The Intention-Action Gap/Implementation Intentions

• Motivation alone doesn’t change behavior; attach triggers for action (when, where, with whom).
• Study: Those who set specific plans (“I’ll exercise Tuesday morning after school drop-off”) exercised far more than those merely motivated (91% vs 38%).
• Commercial Application: Link consumption to clear moments (e.g., “Taco Tuesdays,” “You’re not you when you’re hungry”), or tasks (“Fill in your timesheet Friday morning”).
• “Motivation is a necessary but not sufficient condition... only when combined with a clear trigger, [do] you get the best conversion.”
  – Richard Shotten [43:27]

b. Applicability Beyond Fast-Moving Consumer Goods

• The principle applies broadly — not only for food or recurring purchases. For example: luxury items (“Reward yourself for a promotion with a Rolex”).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On heuristics:
  “If you know about the biases, you can essentially work with human nature rather than against it.”
  – Richard Shotten [05:54]

• On the power of presence bias in pricing:
  “People will give disproportionate emphasis to what is going to be coming out of their account this very second.”
  – Richard Shotten [20:38]

• On the labor illusion:
  “Whether it’s copywriting and stressing prototypes... or letting people see into your kitchens — knowing the work going on makes us appreciate it more.”
  – Richard Shotten [32:40]

• On practical application:
  “Stop referring to it as $365 a year. Say it’s $1 a day... Don’t expect people to slice and dice your price in a way that benefits you. You’ve got to make that daily price as salient as possible.”
  – Richard Shotten [23:10]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Why marketers need behavioral science / cognitive misers & heuristics: [02:58] – [06:46]
• Biases & Social Proof: [06:46] – [09:59]
• Price as quality / Wine study: [09:59] – [12:25]
• Pennies a day effect: [13:18] – [18:33]
• Present bias & buy-now-pay-later services (Klarna): [18:39] – [20:45]
• Framing annual plans; decoy pricing/extreme subversion: [23:10] – [27:17]
• Labor illusion & quality signaling: [27:27] – [35:14]
• Pratfall effect (admitting a product flaw): [36:04] – [38:35]
• Bridging intention and action (implementation intentions): [38:47] – [45:13]

Takeaways for Marketers

• Leverage cognitive shortcuts and biases in your communications to align with real-world buyer behavior.
• Experiment with pricing presentation—always break prices down to the most accessible units and use context to reframe value.
• Proactively showcase the effort, craftsmanship, or innovation behind your product to enhance perceptions of quality.
• Don’t shy away from (strategically) admitting real flaws if they reinforce your brand's key strengths.
• Boost conversions by linking your call-to-action to concrete triggers: time, place, or occasion.

Further Resources

• Richard Shotten: LinkedIn, X/Twitter @rshotten, astroten.co.uk
• Book: Hacking the Human Mind by Richard Shotten & Michael Aaron Flicker