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Social Media Marketing Podcast
Telling Stories That Convert: How to Increase Your Leads and Sales
00:42:56
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- [00:01]
Michael Stelzner
Ever wonder what happens when you bring together the world's top marketers under one roof? Social Media Marketing World 2025 isn't just another conference. It's where career defining connections happen over coffee, where you suddenly form a cohesive strategy, and where you'll meet your next client, mentor or business partner. As attendee. Shauna Allen put it perfectly, I've learned more that directly helps our bottom line at Social Media Marketing World than any other event I attend. From cutting edge AI applications to Instagram strategies that actually work in 2025, this is the experience marketers call life changing. Join us on March 30th in beautiful San Diego. Physical and virtual tickets are still available at social media marketing world.info welcome to the Social Media Marketing podcast, helping you navigate the social media jungle. And now, here is your host, Michael Stelzner. Hello, hello, hello. Thank you so much for joining me for the social Media Marketing podcast brought to you by Social Media Examiner. I'm your host, Michael Stelzner, and this is the podcast for marketers and business owners who want to know how to navigate the ever changing marketing jungle. Today I'm going to be joined by J.J. peterson, and we're going to explore how to tell stories that convert so you can increase your leads and your sales. By the way, if you're new to this podcast, follow us on whatever podcast app you're listening to so you don't miss any of our future content. Let's transition over to this week's interview with Dr. J.J. peterson, helping you to simplify your social safari. Here is this week's expert guide. Today, I'm very excited to be joined by Dr. J.J. peterson. If you don't know who he is, you've got to know him. He helps companies, authors, and thought leaders clarify their message. His book is Marketing Made simple, and he also teaches the Master of Marketing program at Vanderbilt University. JJ welcome back to the show. How you doing today?
- [02:12]
Dr. J.J. Peterson
I'm doing fantastic. Thanks for having me back.
- [02:14]
Michael Stelzner
I'm super excited that you're here. Today, J.J. and I are going to explore a way to use story to help your sales and marketing. And as we get started today, I would love you to just at least begin to explain why story is so important for marketers or entrepreneurs. You know, just start with that, because I know not everybody fully understands the things that you understand.
- [02:37]
Dr. J.J. Peterson
Yeah, you know, story is such a buzzword when it comes to marketing and sales. It's like we have to tell a great story. We have to, you know, put a great story out There we have to tell great stories. But I think most people don't understand what actually makes a good story and why story is so powerful. The reason why it's so important to how to tell good stories is because stories are really based in a formula. And this formula has been used over centuries, really, to help people clarify a story. And it's simple. In its most simple form, there's really seven elements to a really good story. In its most complex. Or when you're doing, like, you know, screenplays, There may be 36 points you have to hit or 42, depending on the type of story you're telling. But most, most good storytellers follow a really simple framework. Why they follow this framework is because it helps take all the information you have about any given subject. Like, when you're telling a story, you're really starting to talk about a specific event or a specific person, and there's all this information about them. But in order to make that story interesting and memorable and ultimately move people to action, it has to be filtered through these elements to say, this is what makes a good, memorable, clear story, story. And that's so important because depending on the research you read, even right now, the average person receives between three and five thousand commercial messages a day.
- [04:12]
Michael Stelzner
Wow.
- [04:12]
Dr. J.J. Peterson
That's just commercial messages. That's not all the other information. You know, this morning we got a call from school saying that our teenager was late to her first class. And I'm like, okay, well, now I've got to put that in my brain. Then I've got to figure out, we got to get the oil change that's on my brain. I am having so much information thrown at me. And then on top of that, three to 5,000 commercial messages a day. Our brain is designed really to filter out the information that we cannot understand quickly. And we really focus on things that help us survive and thrive. I think I've talked about this a little bit before on here, but this is really such an important key to understand, is that our brains are always looking for information that can help us survive and thrive. So if you and I were in. In a stadium right now, I could ask everybody in the stadium how many people know how many chairs are here? And nobody would be able to raise their hand. But if I said, how many people know where the exits are? Every single person raises their hand because our brain, when we walked in, there goes, what do I need to know in order to survive and thrive? So we're always kind of looking for that information and the information that we can Understand quickly and clearly that contributes to our survival and thriving. What a story does is focuses all it. Basically what happens a lot of times is companies are positioning themselves as like the chairs in the stadium and people are looking for exits. So when you understand the power of story and how we can use the story frameworks to filter information down in a way that really cuts through all the noise and shows how our product or service contributes to our customer survival and thriving, we can win in the marketplace. So I know that was a lot to kind of walk through really quickly, but the power of story story is a sense making device. It helps us filter information about our product or service our business in a way that makes customers pay attention.
- [06:15]
Michael Stelzner
I love it. I love it across many levels because oftentimes we as marketers are attempting to communicate something important, right? We've got an important sale going on, or we've got a product, or we've got a new feature that we think might be very important to you. And we tend to focus on just communicating those things as clearly as possible because I think all marketers understand that clear communication is very, very valuable. But what we often don't do is wrap them inside of a story. And when they're not wrapped inside of a story, what I'm hearing you say is they're just one of the thousands of commercial messages that are being targeted at people every day. And our brain, by its very nature, almost has deflectors or defense mechanisms designed to get rid of those messages. Is that correct?
- [07:05]
Dr. J.J. Peterson
Absolutely. Absolutely. And you brought up a really good point. Here's the other thing that we want to understand. When we're getting into marketing and sales, a lot of times companies think they have to tell their story, but the reality is their customers are living as the hero of their own story. Right. You and I wake up every day as the main character in our own movie, and so does every single one of your customers. So if you as a company are going in and trying to tell your story, well, really what you're doing is you're positioning yourself in a story that is outside of the one that your customer is living. So your marketing and messaging really needs to position your customer as the hero of the story. And how do we tell our story in a way that invites them in to where we can be a part of that story? And the way you do that is first you position your customer as the hero, and then second, you position position yourself as the guide. You are the person who comes alongside and helps them win the day. And there are talking Points that you need to actually create that help you do this. One of the frameworks that I use is called the story brand framework. And in the story brand framework, really you identify seven different talking points. This is one of the things I do with companies. I go in and work with them for a day or two days and help them identify their customer story. And those just kind of quickly, high level seven elements are you identify what your customer wants, what problem is your customer experiencing? How do you position yourself as the guide who gives them a plan that calls them to action that results in success or failure? Now, those are based on storytelling elements of the hero's journey. Right? A hero in a story, you have to understand very early what the hero wants to make the story interesting. The hero has to encounter a problem. Then they meet a guide, Obi Wan Kenobi, Yoda, somebody who going to come and help them. There's always a plan in the story. There's a moment, they are called to action, and we know the stakes in the story, success or failure. So those seven elements are really become talking points for your marketing message. Identifying what your customer wants, what problem you solve, so on and so on. When you can identify those talking points, then what that can do is inform everything you put out there. So when you're doing keynote addresses, when you're creating websites, when you're creating email sequences or social media posts, when you understand how story works and create that story in a way that invites your customer and be the hero, then you're going to cut through all the noise and they're going to understand why they should work with you.
- [09:52]
Michael Stelzner
Okay, this is really cool. What I wrote is what do they want? What's their problem? How can you be the guide that gives them a plan that calls them to action that results in success or failure? I mean, that was my own words. Based on what I heard you say.
- [10:04]
Dr. J.J. Peterson
That's exactly it. You actually nailed it.
- [10:06]
Michael Stelzner
Okay, perfect. So maybe you've already answered this question. I'm not 100% sure, but where do we start when it comes to using story in our marketing? I don't know if everything you just kind of shared was a preamble. I'm assuming it was. Okay, so. So now where do we actually start putting this to work?
- [10:23]
Dr. J.J. Peterson
Yeah, so like I said, the process to do this sometimes takes a while to sit down and really identify all these. But I want to make sure that your listeners get kind of some quick wins today. And so the thing I was trying to think about is again, so if I'm positioning myself as the guide for your listeners who are my hero in this moment. Right. What do they want? They want to get leads. That's really like, I just go, what do they want? They want to get leads. So what we're going to really talk about is how to begin talking about how do we get leads with this mindset, with positioning our customer as the hero. And so I'm going to give some quick tips that you can get wins off of today. And then, you know, really, ultimately what you want to do is clarify your message using those seven pieces of the story brand framework. So the first thing I always say is when you are looking to get new leads, the first thing you want to identify is what stages do you want to be on? And what I mean by stages is where are you going to find audiences that you can get in front of? So stages are everything from a podcast. This is a stage. Social media is a stage.
- [11:32]
Michael Stelzner
Social media marketing world.
- [11:34]
Dr. J.J. Peterson
I was just going to say I'm going to be at social media marketing world speaking. And so that's a stage for me. I spoke at our friend, our mutual friend, Amy Porterfield. I spoke at her mastermind. That's a stage. Even LinkedIn can be a stage. Blogs can be a stage. I tend to think of those spaces as stages and I say, what stages do I want to be on? And that's really the first step. I sit down and I identify where should I be showing up to be in front of new audiences? And so for the listener, what you really want to do is sit down, take a little bit of time and just identify where are stages where I want to show up now? They can be earned, they can be paid. Even Google Ads, you know, or Facebook ads are, I would argue, stages. So you can be earned or paid, but you're really looking at where can I show up where my customers are. That's really step one.
- [12:34]
Michael Stelzner
Let me just throw a couple thoughts out there on possible stages that my audience might resonate with. Obviously, your YouTube channel could be a stage.
- [12:41]
Dr. J.J. Peterson
Yes.
- [12:42]
Michael Stelzner
Reels, TikToks, any short form kind of content where it's shown to an audience that's maybe doesn't know who you are. Obviously that could be a stage. Your email list could be a stage, right? If you have a membership full of customers, I would imagine, and you do training, that could be a stage. Your sales videos that might live on your sales pages, right? Where someone might hit click play, that's a potential stage. Am I getting these right or not? I mean, I'm Just, you know, absolutely it the written word, you know, like, so if you write on a blog, a book, on the social platforms like X, LinkedIn or Facebook, those are all stages as well. So I think what I'm hearing you say is a stage is anywhere you are publishing a message of any kind, audio, video or written word, where it's going to be heard by your ideal audience. Is that what I'm hearing you say?
- [13:34]
Dr. J.J. Peterson
Absolutely.
- [13:35]
Michael Stelzner
Okay.
- [13:35]
Dr. J.J. Peterson
And you want to identify where those places are and begin to look at how to show up there. Right.
- [13:41]
Michael Stelzner
Okay.
- [13:41]
Dr. J.J. Peterson
This is the very first step in my thinking of positioning your customers. The hero.
- [13:46]
Michael Stelzner
Okay.
- [13:46]
Dr. J.J. Peterson
I think as companies a lot of times we think if we build it, they will come, right? Like we have a great product, we have a great thing, they're just going to find out about it and come to us. No, no, no. We're not that hero. They're the heroes. They're already existing in other places. We need to go to them and find them. So find those stages. So what I do is I literally sit down and go, in the next six months, what stages do I want to be on? And some of them I know I can make it. And some are like, I'm going to actually try to out punt my coverage here. I'm going to like go for something bigger than I should. So for me personally, I said, you know, I'm going to be at Social Media Marketing World. I spoke for Amy Porterfield, I do blogs for the HubSpot blog. And so I'm showing up in those places. So that's step one.
- [14:30]
Michael Stelzner
That's cool.
- [14:31]
Dr. J.J. Peterson
Then what you really want to do is identify what does the audience want in that space. That's really it. It's really going, what do they want? And like I said, when I show up here, I go, oh, this audience wants to get more leads, get more sales. When you identify what they want, then you can begin the process of identifying what value can I offer to them in that space. So it, like you said, it's going to be different on a compared to what is going to be on LinkedIn or if I'm going to give an hour workshop at a conference versus a tweet. But I'm sitting there going, first I identify what they want and then out of that I go, what value can I give in that space? And I actually write those down on note cards. I genuinely like sid that I'm kind of old school in that way of like, I like to actually physically write it out and then I can kind of move it Like, I can kind of have them all out in front of me on a table and organize them in a way that makes sense for me. Then I digitize. But really, once I've identified those stages, I go, what do those audiences want? What does Michael's audience want on this podcast? What does Amy's mastermind want when I show up? And then I start thinking about what value I can bring to them, and I just brain dump. I put a bunch of ideas down of things that I can ultimately create. Those two first steps happen pretty quickly for me in the fact that I really just sit down, identify, I dream a little bit, and then I go, what can I bring to those audiences? What do they want? And what value can I offer that gives them what they want?
- [16:10]
Michael Stelzner
I think one of the big traps that us marketers get into is focusing on what we want as marketers because we're commissioned to accomplish an objective, right? Like more leads, more sales, more exposure. It's one of those three, typically. And if we don't do what you're proposing, which we should know, right, which is to focus on more on what they want and less on what we want, can you kind of explain why focusing on what they want will ultimately help us get what we want? Because that might be a challenge for some people. Yeah.
- [16:41]
Dr. J.J. Peterson
Yeah. Well, that's the part about positioning your customer as a hero, Right. They are living their own story. And you've been there. You've been to a place. Let's. Like, I just went and recently bought a new car. And new to me car, right? I knew what I wanted. I wanted a car that was over £6,000 because I wanted a tax break on. You know, small business owners know about this tax break. But you, you. I needed a car over £6,000. I wanted it under a certain amount of mileage, and I wanted it to have a third row so we could take the kids everywhere. That's what I wanted. So I walked in to, like, the first place, and the car that I had seen online was gone. And immediately they started trying to get me into a minivan. I don't want a minivan. And they started kind of taking me around to different places and showing me cars. And I was like, no, I don't know. I don't want any of these things. They weren't actually listening to me. They were trying to sell me a car. They weren't listening to me and hearing what I actually wanted. Now I will not go back to that car dealership. They annoyed me. They drove me crazy. Even If a car that I would potentially buy shows back up there because they made themselves the hero of the story. They didn't listen to what I wanted. They just talked about themselves. When you just talk about your product and service, that's how you come across to people. They can sense that you are trying to take money from them versus trying to help them win. When you identify what they want and you actually start to work with them to help them get what they want, whether you have that product or not, to be very honest, they begin to trust you as their guide and see that you're actually there to help them win. And ultimately, when that happens, you will win. I don't think you're ever punished for being a generous brand, especially when you're giving away a ton of value. And when you're giving a ton of information and things that help them win, they're going to see that and ultimately you're going to get that back tenfold.
- [18:41]
Michael Stelzner
It's fascinating because recently I've had Marcus Sheridan on the show, and he talks about how he's got this pool service, right. And. And he recommends the competitors when he realizes that fiberglass pools are relevant for his customer. And that just helps him, you know, look like a true, authentic business guy.
- [18:59]
Dr. J.J. Peterson
Absolutely. And people sense that.
- [19:01]
Michael Stelzner
Yeah.
- [19:01]
Dr. J.J. Peterson
And so. And it may not be as, like, slimy as the car dealership example that I gave, but if you're just going in and going like, we're great, we can do this. We're the best. We're, you know, trust us. We use that language a lot. The most trusted, and it's like, are you really? I don't know if I can trust you. I'm giving you money and you want to get more money from me. That's why don't start with what you have to offer in. Or what you want. More leads, more sales. Start with what your customer wants. So you identify the stage, then identify what it is that they want and kind of brain dump that all out, then actually pick the ones that kind of rise to the top. What are the things that, for me, what I like to do is go, what are the things I can create quickly? What can I repurpose that I've already used in other spaces? And how can I kind of get that up and running fast? Because all of us are really short on time. So I begin to kind of narrow it down of like, what can I kind of do quickly and what's most valuable? Then I actually begin the content creation process.
- [20:01]
Michael Stelzner
Are you feeling undervalued? At work, what if you could get a raise, increase your rates, or bring in more revenue for your company, all because you learned the marketing skills others are still struggling to figure out? That's exactly what happens at Social Media Marketing World 2025, taking place this month. While others are guessing at AI Marketing Strategies, you'll be learning directly from experts who've already mastered them. As attendee Mitch Wilson shared, Social Media Marketing World practically paid for itself as soon as I implemented a fraction of what I learned. This isn't just a conference, it's a career accelerator. And it all starts March 30th. Reserve your tickets now at Social Media Marketing World before tickets sell out. Virtual tickets are also available. Before we get into the content creation process, I want to come back to this brain dump thing. I don't think everybody's going to know with extreme clarity what their customer wants the way you do. So when you said brain dump and write it down on a note card, just give us a little bit more tips on where to get this information. Because maybe it lives somewhere inside of our ecosystem of things that we have access to, but maybe not everybody understands where to find that stuff.
- [21:21]
Dr. J.J. Peterson
Yeah, I think the first thing I would say is don't overthink it. As a business owner, you know, like for me, have I done a study of every single one of your audience members on here and know what the demographics are? You told me some of the things you know. But do I know if they're male, female in this space? Actually I do know that cause you told me. But you know, I didn't do a deep dive on your audience's demographics or anything like that. I just know if they're marketers, if they're business owners, one of the main things they want is leads.
- [21:49]
Michael Stelzner
Right.
- [21:49]
Dr. J.J. Peterson
If I own a yard service, what I know is people want good looking yards. I mean, we don't really want to overthink this. I think that's another thing that happens in this space is this is a lot of people don't lean into that clarity in the story is they go, you know, like if I was to come on here and go, you know, what the people on here want is they want a unique opportunity to creatively empower. No, don't use that kind of language. They want more leads. Like just stick to the clarity of the story. If you own a lawn care company, people want a good yard. If you own a security software company, they want to protect their digital assets. Like you just kind of need to name it that tight in the clarity piece. So don't overthink it. You know what they want, you know why they're coming to you, and just name that.
- [22:43]
Michael Stelzner
Got it. You had some examples with Microsoft, and I think a mattress company that you were going to share. Do you want to share this?
- [22:49]
Dr. J.J. Peterson
Yeah. So, like, for instance, one of the things that we discovered, I was working with a company that's the largest mattress company in the world. And what they realized is, yes, they sell to the end consumer. And so everybody knows that, that like the end consumer, they want a great bed, they want a good night's sleep, pretty easy. But really their best way of selling mattresses is through franchises, through mattress stores. So what they discovered is they initially, when I worked with them, they going in and just really talking about the mattress to the mattress store owners and how great the mattress was and why they needed the mattress instead. What, they changed it a little bit and identified, well, what does the mattress company actually want? The mattress store one, they want to sell more mattresses, period. They don't care if it's one brand or another brand. They want to easily sell mattresses to their customers. So instead of creating a one sheet that talked about how great the mattress is, they created a one sheet that actually helps salespeople sell mattresses better. And that was just a little shift in moving from talking about us to going, well, no, what does the mattress store want? They want their employees to be able to sell more mattresses easier. Great, then we're going to make it easier for the mattress store owners to sell. We're not actually going to pitch our mattress. And just that little shift and identifying what is it that they want helped them actually jump significantly in new sales and getting new mattress stores to put their brand in. Because instead of going in and going, hey, you can use our mattress, they would go in and go, hey, we're going to actually give you the tools to sell more mattresses now they've got more partners right off the bat.
- [24:37]
Michael Stelzner
I love that across many different levels because, you know, if the end user is actually another business, right, Then you got to put yourself in the position. I mean, if that's who you're selling to, then you' put yourself in the position of that business and the ultimate person who's representing the product, right? And I recently bought mattresses because, you know, I'm in a new place, right? And I bought all new mattresses and I've experienced everything you're talking about. And there is one company that kind of dominates all the mattresses. And I know that now, after learning all about the things that are out there, if you can help the salesperson increase the likelihood that they get at the sale, right? Because not everybody buys a mattress when they first walk into a mattress store, right? And that's like the hardest thing because this is a big expensive sale. So if they can help the salesperson increase the likelihood that they sell the product on the first go round, that also helps the franchise owner that's selling the mattresses and ultimately they'll order more mattresses. And all the other mattress companies are probably saying let's focus on the springs or let's focus on the foam home. Right? Now, obviously they're going to get to that, I would imagine. But instead they're helping the mattress salesperson tell a story that they've earned more commission, right. Or they're helping the store owner imagine greater revenue coming in and that's why all of a sudden it worked. Is that really what I'm hearing you say?
- [26:01]
Dr. J.J. Peterson
Absolutely, absolutely. Versus going and saying our mattress is the best, you should have it going. You want to sell more mattresses, we're going to give you the tools to sell more mattresses. Oh, by the way, we have the best selling mattress. Like it's kind of a secondary thing. The product was actually very secondary. And you can do this for your overall message for your company when you're thinking of like mattress company or something. Or you can actually, if you have a bigger company, use this framework to understand how to get different products and divisions out there. So for instance, with Microsoft, I worked with Microsoft and I didn't go in and work with the big Microsoft brand over overall. I actually went in and worked with their browser. And so I went in, in Microsoft Edge and I actually helped the team really identify what is it that people want who are using a browser, the Microsoft Edge browser. And how is that different from Google, how is that different from Chrome? You know, and kind of walking through that process. So you don't have to just actually do it for an overall brand. You could do it for individual products within your arsenal. You know, if I go in and I'm working with a company on a two hour strategy session versus a two day strategy session versus ongoing fractional CMO work. They want something different. And depending on what type of audience I'm in front of, I have to identify what is it that they want and really speak to that. So that's really step one is really identifying where you're going to show up is step one. And then step two is what do they want and what kind of value can you bring to the table, then you actually have to create it. Right. And when you're creating it, you're looking at the format and all of that. Yes. Like, are you going to do video? Is it going to be written? Are you standing up on stage in person? All of that. You're. You're taking all that to consideration. But it doesn't matter how your message gets out there. There's a couple things that I want you to pay attention to as you're creating. Creating this. One of the ways to continue positioning your customers, the hero, is to always start talking. Always start whatever content you're creating, whether it's a video or a speech or, you know, a podcast interview, always start by talking about the problem they're experiencing in story frameworks. The problem is the hook of the story. A story doesn't actually get good or interesting or memorable till a problem shows up. Up. You know, if you're watching a movie and the person is having a great day, and then they just keep having a great day, and then they just keep having a great day, it's a very boring movie, right? Or if the problem gets solved very early in the movie, if it's all of a sudden, you know, Jason Bourne wants to know his identity and know who he is, and somebody just hands him a folder like two minutes in and goes, oh, you were part of the secret ops. And then the movie's just like, oh, in reading that. No, the problem is what hooks us in the story. We have to watch Jason Bourne struggle to figure out his identity and figure out where he came from. Well, your customers, it's the same thing. If you want to actually hook your customers into a story, don't talk about your product. Don't talk about what you do. Start by talking about what problems they're experiencing. So if I'm going up on stage, and in fact, I will do this, if people are listening right now and they come to my session at Social Media Marketing World, you will hear me do this. I will get up, and I will not introduce myself. I will not say, I'm Dr. J.J. peterson. Boy, are my arms tired from flying in here. You know, like, no, I'm not going to make a joke. I'm going to walk up on stage and I'm going to say, we're all here because we want to grow our business. The problem is people are wasting millions of dollars every year on marketing because they're telling the wrong story. That's what I'm going to do. That immediately will make people pay attention to me if I go on a podcast, even on here, if you go back and listen to the beginning of this. What I started with was a problem. We receive 3 to 5,000 commercial messages a day. Our brain is designed to focus on information that contributes to our survival and thriving. I posited that as a problem that your audience is up against. I didn't answer the question of like what is story. I started with a problem. Why that's important is to hook your audience. So for instance, if you're getting ready to create a reel on Instagram and you're going to talk about three tips that people can use to fix their website, don't start with, hey, I've got three tips to help you fix your website. Start with most of us put up a great looking website and it's not performing the way we want it to to hook the audience with the problem. If you're creating a blog post, again, do not start with what you want to write about. Start with the problem your customer's experiencing. Webinar. If you're creating a webinar, the first five minutes of your webinar should be agitating the customer. Problem. Just problem, problem, problem.
- [31:09]
Michael Stelzner
Can I share what I did recently and you can tell me if I did it right or wrong? So I'm working on my keynote for some Social Media Marketing World and I just, I write multiple posts a week. I wrote a post just earlier today and I said the numbers shocked me. I was working on my keynote for Social Media Marketing World when I came across a study from the World Economic Forum that shows that 87% of businesses place this skill at the very top of the list that they plan to focus on for the next five years. And it's implementation of AI skills inside the business, not the third skill, the top skill. And I went on to say that's why I made a bet, started a podcast and ultimately have a track at Social Media Marketing World. Did I do that right? Because I know my audience wants to learn AI.
- [31:57]
Dr. J.J. Peterson
Yes. So what I would do is yes and no. So I was, of course I knew.
- [32:03]
Michael Stelzner
I knew I would learn something from JJ here.
- [32:05]
Dr. J.J. Peterson
So the first part where you started with the fact that 87% of companies are looking for this skill. Now what you want to then do is agitate the specific problem that people are feeling, which means if we don't actually up our AI skills, we will be left behind.
- [32:25]
Michael Stelzner
I did eventually get to that. I just didn't start with that, but.
- [32:28]
Dr. J.J. Peterson
I would start with that. So always start with that because that goes. Okay, now I really need to pay attention. Even if you assume that they already are aware of it.
- [32:36]
Michael Stelzner
Okay, got it.
- [32:37]
Dr. J.J. Peterson
You want to actually dig that in. In. And you want to bring in what we call the external problem, which is what you just did, is the external problem is the idea of that 87% of people who are basically going to be hired in the future need to have this right. Almost kind of thing. Yeah, that's external. Then you want to connect that with an internal problem. So how does that make people feel? And you want to really agitate the internal problem as well and talk about it, name it. The reason you want to do that is because people often go shopping to solve an external problem, but they make buying decisions to solve an internal problem. Meaning if, again, I'll use a lawn care company example. If my yard, I'm looking out my window right now. If my yard is overgrown, that's an external problem. But if I'm not embarrassed by that or overwhelmed by that, I'm not paying somebody to fix it. I just go look at my yard. It's crazy. And that, that's the external problem. So when you as a marketer are inviting customers into a story that they get to see themselves in, you name that external problem, then you agitate the internal problem a little bit. And what that really means for content is if you're doing a 30 second or 60 second reel, the first 10 seconds, honestly, should be about the problem. If you're doing an hour long keynote, the first five to 10 minutes should be about the problem. If you're doing a half hour webinar, the first five minutes should be about the problem. So when you're creating the content in this process, as you've already kind of gone through and identified where you want to be identified, what value you're going to bring. Take one of those cards. If I'm doing my brain dump, I take one of the cards that says five things to improve your website. And instead of writing five things to improve my website, I start with what problem that solves first. And that is the crux, that is the hook of the content. Then what you do after you create the problem and agitate that problem is at that point then you insert your story, your example, your value, whatever. Then you have to offer that customer.
- [34:52]
Michael Stelzner
Okay, so just so I can learn from you, if I had a chance to redo this, I would probably go something like this. I read a study that shocked me. It was from the World Economic Forum and it said that 87% of businesses place this as the number one skill that they expect of employees over the next five years. And it's AI development. And I know most marketers aren't ready for this and they're going to get displaced by others who are if they don't act. Is that really what I'm hearing you say?
- [35:21]
Dr. J.J. Peterson
Exactly.
- [35:22]
Michael Stelzner
Okay.
- [35:22]
Dr. J.J. Peterson
And then if you want to, then come in a little bit with some empathy behind it. And then so we start out with that harsh. And then you bring in a little empathy and you go, I get it.
- [35:32]
Michael Stelzner
Yeah. Nobody has time to learn it. Right.
- [35:34]
Dr. J.J. Peterson
Yeah, I'm in the same boat as you are.
- [35:36]
Michael Stelzner
Yeah.
- [35:36]
Dr. J.J. Peterson
And then you kind of. You don't just stay in empathy now, you bring the value.
- [35:40]
Michael Stelzner
Okay.
- [35:40]
Dr. J.J. Peterson
Which is why I bet on AI and I've been learning everything I have about AI. I'm going to give you some value in AI. And then really, the biggest chunk of your post or your content, whether it's again, blog, webinar, real post on LinkedIn, the biggest chunk is the value. So, you know, really, you're adding that problem at the beginning, then you give your value. The big thing that you're offering in this space now, what I would argue is you're not actually trying to sell. You're trying to agitate a problem that then you have a solution for that you're giving pieces away to that ultimately can lead to a sale or can lead to them giving you an email address to be a lead. Right. The big chunk then is that value you're giving away. Then you close it out with stakes in the story. Stakes in the story is failure and success. Right. In a good movie, you always know what's at stake. If the bomb goes off and we know the village, the entire village could die, or the bomb gets disarmed and everybody lives happily ever after. Those two things have been foreshadowed in story. So in your closing of your content, you want to wrap things up with some stakes. And what I mean by that is talk about what happens if they don't do what you just called them to do. That's the failure. They're going to continue to be frustrated, they're going to miss out on leads, and then you end with success. But you have the ability to actually create a website that will perform better than you can imagine. Your sales are going to go up and you're going to get. Get in front of more customers. It's not about your success. It's about their success and the stakes in their story. Now you always want to include a call to action in this as well. This is another thing people forget is they just get like, to the end, and they're like, great. So if you have any other questions, call me. Nope, nope, that's not it. A strong call to action. So the content itself, just to kind of go back over this outline is start with the problem that your customer is experiencing, then bring in your story, your value, your tips, your tricks that you're going to offer, and then close with their stakes. So what happens if they listen to you? They have a happy ending. What happens if they don't? They're going to continue to struggle. And you actually want to mention both of these and then close with a clear call to action. Again, whether it's on a blog, keynote, a reel, or a webinar, what are they supposed to do next? And this is key. This is key because this whole time I've been saying, like, don't, you know, really sell. Invite your customer into a story, make them the hero of the story. All of that. The call to action is actually still a part of their story. They need to know what they need to do in order to have a successful ending to their story. And if you shrink in that moment as their guide, you actually are doing them no service. You have to tell them, so sign up for this, buy this, schedule a call, because when they do, and then you say the stakes again, right, you're going to stop feeling this way, and you're going to actually start feeling this way. And that kind of model of problem, value, stakes. Call to action can be shrunk to 30 seconds or can be expanded to 90 minutes. I mean, could go for hours. But that kind of framework really sets the stage for delivering incredible value to your customer. Getting tons of leads, but also positioning them as the hero. So again, yet later, you know, they need to know more about your product. They need to know the. The intricacies, the features, the benefits. Yes, all of that. 100%. This is not the only thing you ever talk about. Right. You have to get to that, but you can't start with that. You have to start with your customer story. And that's how you do it.
- [39:55]
Michael Stelzner
I'd love to explore the value side of it just a little bit, because one of the things that I've been experimenting with is, and I seem to get really good engagement on this when I'm writing is sometimes my value is more like lessons that I've learned than it is actual tips. Because even though it's true that my Audience is marketers and are always looking for tips. I feel like I come at it through a lens of a different perspective, and there's always, like, a moral or a lesson that I've learned that I'm imparting to my audience. Is that also something that can be valuable?
- [40:28]
Dr. J.J. Peterson
Absolutely.
- [40:29]
Michael Stelzner
That's not necessarily a tip. You understand where I'm going with that? Yeah.
- [40:32]
Dr. J.J. Peterson
Yes, I do. And what that is is in kind of the broader sense of it. Going back to the story framework is really what you're doing in that context is positioning yourself as a guide.
- [40:41]
Michael Stelzner
Ah, okay.
- [40:42]
Dr. J.J. Peterson
So a guide, really, in a movie or in a story, the guide is the older, wiser person who comes along to help the hero win the day. Right. So it's Obi Wan Kenobi to Luke Skywalker. It's Gandalf to Frodo. It's Haymitch and Hunger Games to Katniss. It's the person who comes along and helps the hero win. Now, there are two elements that really position the guide in the story to the hero, and that is empathy and authority. So empathy is. I've been in your shoes and I've struggled, right? And then authority really is, here's the lessons I've learned and here's how I help other people move forward. And those two have to work together. Because if you said, you know, if you. You get on there and instead of going, here's the lesson I learned, you said, man, I still haven't figured out this lesson. People aren't actually going to trust you. It's like me going to a gym and saying to a trainer, you know, hey, I need to lose 30 pounds. And that trainer going, me, too. Yeah, empathy. But that's not my guide. Yeah, I need somebody who's gone, you know what? I actually struggled for a long time to lose 30 pounds. Here's the lessons I've learned, and here's the lessons I'm going to give to you. Now, they're like me. Empathy. And they have authority. They can move me forward. So there's other pieces that you can sprinkle in through that. You know, the very beginning, I mentioned the seven parts of the framework. Really what I talked about in this content creation was really just three of the parts. Problem, solution, kind of like your plan for them, and then their success, the stakes in the story. So I really just talked about three of the seven. And like I said, when I go through with companies or individuals or thought leaders, I help them establish all seven of those talking points. And then what you really do is you take those and you put them in different places. Like your website header may have two or three, an email sequence may have four, One social media post may have two, and another social media post may have four. So what I do is I just kind of take those and then put them in different. That's why the book I wrote is called Marketing Made Simple. It's really like you have these seven talking points and then you just plug and play them all over the place. So today, what we've really talked about is creating content for specific audiences using the problem, your plan, and the stakes and the story.
- [43:04]
Michael Stelzner
Dr. J.J. peterson, you can meet him live and interact with him on the ground at Social Media Marketing World 2025 in San Diego this year. Beyond that, if people want to connect with you on the socials or they want to reach out to your business to work with you, where do you want to send them?
- [43:18]
Dr. J.J. Peterson
Yeah, so on the socials, I'm everywhere. I'm at Dr. J.J. peterson and then Dr. Not spelled out, but Dr. J.J. peterson, and then same. If you're interested in, like hearing more about this or you actually kind of develop developing a story for your own company or creating content for your company, you can reach out at drjj.
- [43:39]
Michael Stelzner
So just drjjrjjpeterson.com Dr.jjrjjpeterson.com is your email address.
- [43:47]
Dr. J.J. Peterson
Yep.
- [43:47]
Michael Stelzner
Okay, cool. And then they can. Can they also go to your website or is there nothing there yet?
- [43:51]
Dr. J.J. Peterson
There's not. Not anything there right now because I don't. I. I only work with a few people at a time, so.
- [43:56]
Michael Stelzner
Okay, cool. So. So if you want to reach out to him, email or social is the preferred way. JJ really appreciate your wisdom today.
- [44:03]
Dr. J.J. Peterson
Oh, thanks for having me.
- [44:04]
Michael Stelzner
Hey, if you missed anything, we took all the notes for you over@socialmediaexaminer.com 658. If you're new to the show, be sure to follow us. If you've been a longtime listener, would you give us a review? I would absolutely love that. And let your friends know about this show as well. And do check out our other shows, the AI Explored Podcast and the Social Media Marketing Talk show. This brings us to the end of the Social Media Marketing Podcast. I'm your host, Michael Stelzner. I'll be back with you next week. I hope you make the best out of your day and may your marketing keep evolving. The Social Media Marketing Podcast is a production of Social Media Examiner. We're in the biggest shift in marketing history with AI and social algorithms. Transforming everything thing. That's why Social Media Marketing World 2025 isn't just a conference. It's your complete marketing transformation. Whether you join us in San Diego or virtually, one breakthrough could change your entire career. Secure your spot today at social media marketing world.in fox.